From grtdane at internode.on.net Thu Dec 1 08:42:03 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane trethowan) Date: Thu, 01 Dec 2011 19:42:03 +1100 Subject: LCD and LED screens, what's the difference in look? Message-ID: <4ED73DDB.2050808@internode.on.net> Hi! I'm just curious. What's the difference between the look of a LED and a LCD screen, is one sharper than the other. was going through the specs of my HP Entertainment Notebook PC and I noted that it had a 15.2 LED display, my Apple Macbook which is considerably older has a 13.5 Inch LCD display. -- sent from my HP Powerhouse Notebook. From roger.firman at btinternet.com Thu Dec 1 09:18:56 2011 From: roger.firman at btinternet.com (Roger Firman) Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2011 09:18:56 -0000 Subject: LCD and LED screens, what's the difference in look? In-Reply-To: <4ED73DDB.2050808@internode.on.net> Message-ID: Dane, As I understand it LED technology is relatively new to what might be termed small screens and in this regard a comparison between LCD and LED in terms of length of life can be guessed at, although probably good guesses. In some circumstances, the LED screen should offer better contrast regarding RGB but there are a range of other issues too. In no way claiming any great knowledge on the subject, I feel sure there will be more comprehensive replies especially relating to your main question concerning the look comparing both. Regards, Roger. From martin at x.it.okstate.edu Thu Dec 1 21:37:33 2011 From: martin at x.it.okstate.edu (Martin McCormick) Date: Thu, 01 Dec 2011 15:37:33 -0600 Subject: Listening to KNX outside the U.S. Message-ID: <201112012137.pB1LbXBL066662@x.it.okstate.edu> I'll comment on your post, here, which has some very good points. "Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith" writes: > Hello Martin and all > As I said, I think, Martin, that you may not be aware of the fact that we > have to pay a license fee to watch this sort of stuff. That license is > rigorously enforced and breaking the rules leads to a 1 thousand Pound > fine, plus a 28 day prison sentence and a conviction as a criminal if > caught. > > The IF signals of the TV or video equipment are used by detector vans > with specialist equipment which go around at all hours of the day and > night. They check every street at random times and the vehicles are > unmarked; so you can't tell when they are there. That fact, the fact that > we have to pay for something which others are trying to get for free, is > the only reason why I am in favour of the ban. Actually what you have there is a forced subscription. The detector vans and the data base and infrastructure to support them plus all the staff to occupy them is utter lunacy. I'd like to laugh and say something like, "Oh! those British. How weird," but that's totally missing the point as to how far governments and private industry will go sometimes to enforce behavior that is not voluntary or unpopular or both. It must cost a fortune to outfit those vehicles, pay the drivers, technicians, engineers and computer programmers and I am sure things go wrong from time to time like any good bureaucracy. I am surprised that England has not done one of the following things: Abolish the license fee and all compliance infrastructure and collect the taxes some other way that you can't avoid such as sales taxes or the VAT. They could encrypt the television signal so that you must pay for it just like satellite reception. Again, axe the enforcement infrastructure because it wouldn't matter. Didn't pay? it doesn't play. > Some of the other TV > channels in the UK have other reasons for banning access to their > content. And the primary of those is copyright. They take out viewing > rights agreements with the owners of the content, and the production > companies who sell it on to the TV stations. Those agreements contain > copyright clauses which prohibit the TV channels from making their > content freely available. That, and that only, is the reason why they > prohibit access to overseas individuals. I've done some checking and > actually, the network providers of VPN and other access points are > themselves liable for prosecution it seems if their clients use their > facilities to access copyright material. I don't know what the situation > is regarding the person themselves; but my information is that the > provider of the services usually makes it quite clear to people who > subscribe that their agreement is that they don't use the service for any > illegal activities. Therefore, if the provider is made aware of such > abuse by the broadcaster or copyright holder, they apparently take a very > dim view of it and take the appropriate measures. This is only what I'm > being told; I am no expert. Here, local television stations broadcast their signal over the air, through cable systems and, here's the problem, via satellite for viewers who live either too far away from the city to receive a proper signal over the air or for people who subscribe to satellite and need some way to get signals from the nearest city, also. I could, in theory, watch the local TV of New York City even though it is 2000 miles away but one is not really supposed to do that because local stations sell advertising that I don't receive. It's a variation on who pays for what, again. The signals are encrypted and the company sells you a decoder for your area. There is a black market which I truly do not know anything about in which people sell cracked decoders for somewhere between what a legal system would cost and free and federal agents usually find these people and they are in big trouble when cought. It is not a huge industry, here, but you hear about it from time to time when somebody gets cought. One of the satellite companies did a very clever thing a few years ago. There were a bunch of illegal receivers out there and a large number of folks had bought them because of a premium sports package that they were stealing. The satellite company knew what type of cards the pirates had so they sent a short program, a few bytes at a time, to all these folks while, at the same time, they sent their paying customers new cards that were immune from what was about to happen. Each day, they sent up a few more bytes of the program which the receivers wrote to the illegal cards. On one of the biggest Sunday football days of the year, they sent the final few bytes of the program which caused all the illegal smart cards to go in to an endless loop of nothing which effectively killed the decoders. > So again, I would say Martin that you're comments are somewhat idealistic > in nature. Yes, nice work if you can get it and, if somebody gets away > with doing it, then fine, I have no problem with that whatsoever. It's > not my place to enforce the law, nor would I ever dream of trying to tell > others what they should and shouldn't do. I'm just expressing my personal > views that I don't see why others should have access free of charge to > something for which I have to pay almost -L-200 a year, GBP, to use or > access. From lynne at mac-access.net Sat Dec 3 16:43:01 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Sat, 3 Dec 2011 16:43:01 +0000 Subject: LCD and LED screens, what's the difference in look? In-Reply-To: <4ED73DDB.2050808@internode.on.net> References: <4ED73DDB.2050808@internode.on.net> Message-ID: <0E1EBB6D-301D-4822-8943-754E8F2D6B3D@mac-access.net> Dane LCD uses liquid crystal display whereas LED uses millions of small LEDs. The latter can I gather give you higher resolution and a sharper picture. That's my understanding. I don't have a lot of time just now so will have to leave it to you to research if you want to corroborate my comments. Lynne On 1 Dec 2011, at 08:42, Dane Trethowan wrote: Hi! I'm just curious. What's the difference between the look of a LED and a LCD screen, is one sharper than the other. was going through the specs of my HP Entertainment Notebook PC and I noted that it had a 15.2 LED display, my Apple Macbook which is considerably older has a 13.5 Inch LCD display. -- sent from my HP Powerhouse Notebook. ======================================= The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html Or: you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: --------------------------------------- From djden at thejazzden.org.uk Sat Dec 3 19:59:02 2011 From: djden at thejazzden.org.uk (Thejazzden) Date: Sat, 3 Dec 2011 19:59:02 +0000 Subject: Stock control system References: Message-ID: <28E15137-3B0A-41CD-8DF9-7F121870B1FD@thejazzden.org.uk> Hello Listers > I hope there are some enterprising people out there who can think a little out-of-the-box. I'm looking for an accessible automated system to help me with stock control for my business. I'm aware of IDMates, Scan-a-Cans and other accessible technology, but all come at a high price and are more for dealing with household goods I think than as a manufacturer or retailer. I have Digit-Eyes, which reads barcodes well and allows me to make barcode labels, and RedLaser for the IPhone, but they aren't perfect on the stock control side. > I am open to anything worth trying out in MS Windows or on the Mac, or even a combination of these and a Braille notetaker. > Has anyone got an up-and-running system as a manufacturer or vendor? You can buy off-the-shelf barcode scanners from local stores, and I wonder if making my own database to do what I need is the only way, but that would take time, and then there's the question of which barcode scannerand how to get it to input the scanned barcode.into the database > > Dennis Freedman > The best aromatherapy in the UK - www.e-nat.co.uk > Sent from my iPhone > From grtdane at internode.on.net Sun Dec 4 17:23:18 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2011 04:23:18 +1100 Subject: Time for a new pair of Headphones Message-ID: Hi! Just wondering what people are using in the way of headsets when using Skype or their computer? I bought a pair of Logitech Clear Chat headphones some 4 years ago I think it was and now they're starting to fall apart literally . I'm looking at a pair of wireless headphones possibly so any recommendations or thoughts would be most welcome. From marrie12 at gmail.com Sun Dec 4 23:19:41 2011 From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah Alawami) Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2011 15:19:41 -0800 Subject: Time for a new pair of Headphones In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <00136D42-2A20-4130-9AA5-9E2F93B5B8B7@gmail.com> I believe www.skype.com sells the free talk headset mics. I know tha'ts not what you want but it might be a start. On Dec 4, 2011, at 9:23 AM, Dane Trethowan wrote: > Hi! > > Just wondering what people are using in the way of headsets when using Skype or their computer? > > I bought a pair of Logitech Clear Chat headphones some 4 years ago I think it was and now they're starting to fall apart literally . > > I'm looking at a pair of wireless headphones possibly so any recommendations or thoughts would be most welcome. > > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- From hopewell at hopewell.org.uk Mon Dec 5 14:02:06 2011 From: hopewell at hopewell.org.uk (Paul Hopewell) Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2011 14:02:06 +0000 Subject: Photo editing software for the Macx Message-ID: <40B290A1-9D6D-4399-AC83-E2F5CCE4A677@hopewell.org.uk> Hello, My sighted wife is thinking of upgrading her Windows XP computer and at the same time moving to an iMac. She does a lot of photo editing on Windows such as removing offending telegraph poles from photos and improving the contrast and colour of old photos she has scanned in. On Windows she uses Photo Elements and Roxeo. As I am blind this is an area I have never explored. Is there equivalent photo editing software for the Mac? If so what software do you recommend? Is any of it free or built-into Mac OS? Many thanks. Paul Hopewell From martin at x.it.okstate.edu Tue Dec 6 17:31:56 2011 From: martin at x.it.okstate.edu (Martin McCormick) Date: Tue, 06 Dec 2011 11:31:56 -0600 Subject: LCD and LED screens, what's the difference in look? Message-ID: <201112061732.pB6HVu7Q094348@x.it.okstate.edu> LCD screens would look like a stained glass window if not for the back lighting pannel. What we have are two sheets of glass or plastic that are treated with a coating that if viewed under a microscope would look like slots or bars. The front sheet and the back sheet are placed so that one of them has the slots vertical and the other one is horizontal so that no light gets through. There is a film of oily liquid trapped between the two sheets along with a matrix of electrical conductors that would look like a sheet of graph paper if magnified. Those rows and columns are fed to the outside and if you put a voltage on a row and another on a column, the liquid at the point where the row and column meet bends light such that at that one place, light makes it through the crossed lines to the other side. That's one pixel and the glass at that point may also be colored red, green or blue so that all the tiny dots end up making a nice color picture. For a LCD screen to work, you must have a back light. If you could separate the back light from the rest of the screen, the screen would look like a transparency and you could see this colored image and look right through it to the rest of the room. LCD screens sometimes have trouble showing complete blacks as some light leaks through. The better LCD screens use white LED's as back lights and they can do better with black because the back light can also be dimmed. I bet, one day, that all TV screens will be LED. They are more energy efficient which means batteries will last longer on portable devices plus they have a few other characteristics that make them better for screens. LCD screens also have a temperature restriction that most people do not need to worry about. They will sort of freeze in very low temperatures and the display will get sluggish. Some gasoline pumps here in the US have been known to have their displays stop working when it gets extremely cold in Winter. "Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith" writes: > Dane > > LCD uses liquid crystal display whereas LED uses millions of small LEDs. > The latter can I gather give you higher resolution and a sharper picture. > > That's my understanding. I don't have a lot of time just now so will have > to leave it to you to research if you want to corroborate my comments. From roger.firman at btinternet.com Thu Dec 8 09:57:47 2011 From: roger.firman at btinternet.com (Roger Firman) Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2011 09:57:47 -0000 Subject: DreamWeaver CS5.5 full version In-Reply-To: <70FA9ADE-F3C5-49FA-A692-019721C29E32@mac-access.net> Message-ID: Hello Lynne, Regarding your message sent a few days ago, I now have a copy of Dreamweaver which has been installed and I have obtained the latest updates, two in all. The adventure now begins. Kind regards, Roger. From lynne at mac-access.net Thu Dec 8 20:18:48 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2011 20:18:48 +0000 Subject: DreamWeaver CS5.5 full version In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Roger I haven't yet been able to install it, for obvious reasons. But we do have it. I'll be interested in your findings. Lynne On 8 Dec 2011, at 09:57, Roger Firman wrote: Hello Lynne, Regarding your message sent a few days ago, I now have a copy of Dreamweaver which has been installed and I have obtained the latest updates, two in all. The adventure now begins. Kind regards, Roger. ======================================= The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html Or: you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: --------------------------------------- From juanitatighan at gmail.com Sat Dec 10 15:37:57 2011 From: juanitatighan at gmail.com (Jane) Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2011 10:37:57 -0500 Subject: VMWare Player Message-ID: I am not sure *what list* my question belongs, on, so I am starting here. I have donwloaded something called Writer OS, it's a bunch of free programs that's supposed to help with writing and keping your writing where it can be gotten at anywhere, I guess. I figure free is good. To do it, you have to get VMWare Player and install it, and then open up the virtual machine. Is this doable with VO? Any pitfalls I need to be aware of? Jane From chris.hallsworth at techno-chat.net Sat Dec 10 18:30:50 2011 From: chris.hallsworth at techno-chat.net (chris hallsworth) Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2011 18:30:50 +0000 Subject: VMWare Player In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4EE3A55A.2080603@techno-chat.net> I didn't think there was a VMware Player for Mac? I have only heard of VMware Fusion for the mac and VMware Player for Windows. On 10/12/2011 15:37, Jane wrote: > I am not sure *what list* my question belongs, on, so I am starting here. > > I have donwloaded something called Writer OS, it's a bunch of free programs that's supposed to help with writing and keping your writing where it can be gotten at anywhere, I guess. I figure free is good. To do it, you have to get VMWare Player and install it, and then open up the virtual machine. Is this doable with VO? Any pitfalls I need to be aware of? > > Jane > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- > From lynne at mac-access.net Sun Dec 11 18:32:20 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2011 18:32:20 +0000 Subject: NVDA & Braille Message-ID: Hello everybody Could somebody tell me how to configure this please? I've checked but nothing immediate springs to mind. Thank you. Lynne From lynne at mac-access.net Sun Dec 11 18:38:56 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2011 18:38:56 +0000 Subject: Window-Eyes & Braille Message-ID: Hello everybody is it me, or is the Brille configuration in Window-Eyes 7.5.2 drastically cut down? It seems however, that you can no longer customise the control options and what information is displayed on the Display. For example, it seems that you can no longer change the display of control types, such as buttons, check boxes etc. If this is indeed the case then it looks like it really is time for Gordon to dump Window-Eyes for good. He says he doesn't want that stuff displayed; as he finds it wasteful. Thank you for any input. Lynne From chris.hallsworth at techno-chat.net Sun Dec 11 19:11:40 2011 From: chris.hallsworth at techno-chat.net (chris hallsworth) Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2011 19:11:40 +0000 Subject: Window-Eyes & Braille In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4EE5006C.4070702@techno-chat.net> Not true. If you enable Show Advanced Options in the Window-Eyes Control Panel's help menu, you can see all the settings that can be configured with Window-Eyes. Without this enabled, only the basic settings can be controlled, such as speech rate. Not sure about Braille but I think it's hot keys and basic options only. On 11/12/2011 18:38, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: > Hello everybody > > is it me, or is the Brille configuration in Window-Eyes 7.5.2 drastically cut down? It seems however, that you can no longer customise the control options and what information is displayed on the Display. For example, it seems that you can no longer change the display of control types, such as buttons, check boxes etc. > > If this is indeed the case then it looks like it really is time for Gordon to dump Window-Eyes for good. He says he doesn't want that stuff displayed; as he finds it wasteful. > > Thank you for any input. > > Lynne > > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- > From lynne at mac-access.net Sun Dec 11 19:14:54 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2011 19:14:54 +0000 Subject: Window-Eyes & Braille In-Reply-To: <4EE5006C.4070702@techno-chat.net> References: <4EE5006C.4070702@techno-chat.net> Message-ID: Hello Chris I have done that. It was the very first thing I did when configuring. All I'm seeing is the two options for general and hot key. I'll check again because I'm sure there should be more. Lynne On 11 Dec 2011, at 19:11, chris hallsworth wrote: Not true. If you enable Show Advanced Options in the Window-Eyes Control Panel's help menu, you can see all the settings that can be configured with Window-Eyes. Without this enabled, only the basic settings can be controlled, such as speech rate. Not sure about Braille but I think it's hot keys and basic options only. On 11/12/2011 18:38, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: > Hello everybody > > is it me, or is the Brille configuration in Window-Eyes 7.5.2 drastically cut down? It seems however, that you can no longer customise the control options and what information is displayed on the Display. For example, it seems that you can no longer change the display of control types, such as buttons, check boxes etc. > > If this is indeed the case then it looks like it really is time for Gordon to dump Window-Eyes for good. He says he doesn't want that stuff displayed; as he finds it wasteful. > > Thank you for any input. > > Lynne > > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- > ======================================= The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html Or: you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: --------------------------------------- From chris.hallsworth at techno-chat.net Sun Dec 11 19:14:31 2011 From: chris.hallsworth at techno-chat.net (chris hallsworth) Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2011 19:14:31 +0000 Subject: NVDA & Braille In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4EE50117.2090002@techno-chat.net> It is quite difficult to set up Braille with NVDA. Only a few displays are supported natively while the rest requires installation and configuration of BrlTTY, a free and open source piece of software that supports a variety of displays and runs on multiple platforms. For this scenario you would choose BrlTTY as the Braille display for NVDA. This is why in my opinion the commercial screen readers kick when it comes to Braille support. I'm sure this will improve over time but this is what we have for now. On 11/12/2011 18:32, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: > Hello everybody > > Could somebody tell me how to configure this please? I've checked but nothing immediate springs to mind. > > Thank you. > > Lynne > > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- > From gordon at mac-access.net Sun Dec 11 19:20:25 2011 From: gordon at mac-access.net (Gordon Smith) Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2011 19:20:25 +0000 Subject: NVDA & Braille In-Reply-To: <4EE50117.2090002@techno-chat.net> References: <4EE50117.2090002@techno-chat.net> Message-ID: <7BFF35D4-715F-42CF-8577-0C61180D9A1D@mac-access.net> Hello Chris OK, if NVDA doesn't support Gordon's display we'll have to leave it alone for now I think. Sadly we don't have the time to mess around configuring difficult to configure programmes just at the moment. The reason for that is that Gordon's taking his laptop to hospital with him tomorrow. He has his own room and they've told him it's alright. But Braille is a must have, so that speech doesn't interfere with other patients; and also for security reasons. It could present a security risk if he has sensitive information being verbalised. So we need something that gives Gordon Brille. Lynne On 11 Dec 2011, at 19:14, chris hallsworth wrote: It is quite difficult to set up Braille with NVDA. Only a few displays are supported natively while the rest requires installation and configuration of BrlTTY, a free and open source piece of software that supports a variety of displays and runs on multiple platforms. For this scenario you would choose BrlTTY as the Braille display for NVDA. This is why in my opinion the commercial screen readers kick when it comes to Braille support. I'm sure this will improve over time but this is what we have for now. On 11/12/2011 18:32, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: > Hello everybody > > Could somebody tell me how to configure this please? I've checked but nothing immediate springs to mind. > > Thank you. > > Lynne > > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- > ======================================= The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html Or: you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: --------------------------------------- From lynne at mac-access.net Sun Dec 11 19:21:07 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2011 19:21:07 +0000 Subject: NVDA & Braille In-Reply-To: <7BFF35D4-715F-42CF-8577-0C61180D9A1D@mac-access.net> References: <4EE50117.2090002@techno-chat.net> <7BFF35D4-715F-42CF-8577-0C61180D9A1D@mac-access.net> Message-ID: Hello everybody Sorry; I forgot again to change accounts. Lynne On 11 Dec 2011, at 19:20, Gordon Smith wrote: Hello Chris OK, if NVDA doesn't support Gordon's display we'll have to leave it alone for now I think. Sadly we don't have the time to mess around configuring difficult to configure programmes just at the moment. The reason for that is that Gordon's taking his laptop to hospital with him tomorrow. He has his own room and they've told him it's alright. But Braille is a must have, so that speech doesn't interfere with other patients; and also for security reasons. It could present a security risk if he has sensitive information being verbalised. So we need something that gives Gordon Brille. Lynne On 11 Dec 2011, at 19:14, chris hallsworth wrote: It is quite difficult to set up Braille with NVDA. Only a few displays are supported natively while the rest requires installation and configuration of BrlTTY, a free and open source piece of software that supports a variety of displays and runs on multiple platforms. For this scenario you would choose BrlTTY as the Braille display for NVDA. This is why in my opinion the commercial screen readers kick when it comes to Braille support. I'm sure this will improve over time but this is what we have for now. On 11/12/2011 18:32, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: > Hello everybody > > Could somebody tell me how to configure this please? I've checked but nothing immediate springs to mind. > > Thank you. > > Lynne > > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- > ======================================= The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html Or: you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: --------------------------------------- ======================================= The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html Or: you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: --------------------------------------- From chris.hallsworth at techno-chat.net Sun Dec 11 21:45:10 2011 From: chris.hallsworth at techno-chat.net (chris hallsworth) Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2011 21:45:10 +0000 Subject: NVDA & Braille In-Reply-To: <7BFF35D4-715F-42CF-8577-0C61180D9A1D@mac-access.net> References: <4EE50117.2090002@techno-chat.net> <7BFF35D4-715F-42CF-8577-0C61180D9A1D@mac-access.net> Message-ID: <4EE52466.1040801@techno-chat.net> Hi Lynn and all yes I understand and glad I could be of some help. Chat soon. On 11/12/2011 19:20, Gordon Smith wrote: > Hello Chris > > OK, if NVDA doesn't support Gordon's display we'll have to leave it alone for now I think. Sadly we don't have the time to mess around configuring difficult to configure programmes just at the moment. The reason for that is that Gordon's taking his laptop to hospital with him tomorrow. He has his own room and they've told him it's alright. But Braille is a must have, so that speech doesn't interfere with other patients; and also for security reasons. It could present a security risk if he has sensitive information being verbalised. So we need something that gives Gordon Brille. > > Lynne > > On 11 Dec 2011, at 19:14, chris hallsworth wrote: > > It is quite difficult to set up Braille with NVDA. Only a few displays are supported natively while the rest requires installation and configuration of BrlTTY, a free and open source piece of software that supports a variety of displays and runs on multiple platforms. For this scenario you would choose BrlTTY as the Braille display for NVDA. This is why in my opinion the commercial screen readers kick when it comes to Braille support. I'm sure this will improve over time but this is what we have for now. > > On 11/12/2011 18:32, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: >> Hello everybody >> >> Could somebody tell me how to configure this please? I've checked but nothing immediate springs to mind. >> >> Thank you. >> >> Lynne >> >> >> >> ======================================= >> >> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free >> >> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat >> >> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: >> >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html >> >> Or: >> >> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: >> >> >> --------------------------------------- >> > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- > From tsiegel at softcon.com Wed Dec 14 16:27:36 2011 From: tsiegel at softcon.com (Travis Siegel) Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2011 11:27:36 -0500 Subject: Alexander Graham Bell recordings Message-ID: This is pretty cool. Some scientists have now managed to recover and play back some of the earliest recordings from the inventor of the telephone. It's quite a good read, give it a look. http://news.yahoo.com/alexander-graham-bell-recordings- played-1880s-210138693.html From martin at x.it.okstate.edu Wed Dec 14 16:59:59 2011 From: martin at x.it.okstate.edu (Martin McCormick) Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2011 10:59:59 -0600 Subject: Alexander Graham Bell recordings Message-ID: <201112141700.pBEH00lZ041160@x.it.okstate.edu> That is quite a system they are developing. A few years ago, there was a story in the news about the same research team who had successfully recovered human voice sounds made in the late 1850's. A Frenchman had come up with a gadget that would take your voice and vibrate a needle with it much like Edison's original phonograph. The needle scratched out a track on a piece of paper coated with lamp black so the waves of your voice sound appeared like a squiggly line of white on a black background. The idea wasn't to replay the sound back then, but to produce a sort of automatic signature based on one's voice that could be attached to documents. He patented his device and that was pretty much the end of things but samples of the tracings were kept by the French and the Berkeley research team used the same high-resolution scan technique to reconstitute the squiggly line back in to sound. The man's daughter is heard singing a French song. The sound is dreadful, but what should one expect in 1858? I heard a brief snippet of it on the evening news and it would have been unrecognizable as singing had they not explained beforehand. She probably also had to sing at the top of her lungs to get the needle to vibrate as much as possible so it really made me think of some poor creature being injured. Travis Siegel writes: > This is pretty cool. Some scientists have now managed to recover and play > back some of the earliest recordings from the inventor of the telephone. > It's quite a good read, From marrie12 at gmail.com Thu Dec 15 06:35:04 2011 From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah Alawami) Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2011 22:35:04 -0800 Subject: Alexander Graham Bell recordings In-Reply-To: <201112141700.pBEH00lZ041160@x.it.okstate.edu> References: <201112141700.pBEH00lZ041160@x.it.okstate.edu> Message-ID: <94AE8A46-1B71-4B24-8292-18F066E62024@gmail.com> Also was there one of a song about a guy who could whistle like a bird or something? I can't remember the song but I believe it was from 1910. I find this stuff amazing. Take care all. On Dec 14, 2011, at 8:59 AM, Martin McCormick wrote: > That is quite a system they are developing. A few years > ago, there was a story in the news about the same research team > who had successfully recovered human voice sounds made in the > late 1850's. A Frenchman had come up with a gadget that would > take your voice and vibrate a needle with it much like Edison's > original phonograph. The needle scratched out a track on a piece > of paper coated with lamp black so the waves of your voice sound > appeared like a squiggly line of white on a black background. > > The idea wasn't to replay the sound back then, but to > produce a sort of automatic signature based on one's voice that > could be attached to documents. > > He patented his device and that was pretty much the end > of things but samples of the tracings were kept by the French > and the Berkeley research team used the same high-resolution > scan technique to reconstitute the squiggly line back in to > sound. > > The man's daughter is heard singing a French song. The > sound is dreadful, but what should one expect in 1858? I heard a > brief snippet of it on the evening news and it would have been > unrecognizable as singing had they not explained beforehand. She > probably also had to sing at the top of her lungs to get the > needle to vibrate as much as possible so it really made me think > of some poor creature being injured. > Travis Siegel writes: >> This is pretty cool. Some scientists have now managed to recover and play >> back some of the earliest recordings from the inventor of the telephone. >> It's quite a good read, > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- From grtdane at internode.on.net Fri Dec 16 16:35:21 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2011 03:35:21 +1100 Subject: VPN, finally have it running Message-ID: <76A91CA1-6454-4EAC-BD93-0BA07DC92C06@internode.on.net> Hi! Okay folks I have my VPN up and running and it was far easier to setup than I'd expected it to be but first some background. Perhaps someone could correct my explanation of what a VPN is if appropriate, to me its a private tunnel between you and the site or whatever you wish to connect to, in my case what I connect to are things like the CBS news stations etc - I have to hand it to the yanks, they sure know how to run 24-7 news stations but that's a matter for another time -. Someone on list suggested Hotspot Shield and that in my opinion is a very bad choice for a number of reasons. Firstly the free version that the list member suggested is peppered with advertising and tracking cookies, exactly what you don't want from a VPN. I would have perhaps tried the Paid version of Hotspot Shield had I been able to access the site properly. Followers of my Twitter have been suggesting Witopia at so it made sense to try them next. I had several questions about the sort of package I'd need so I wrote to the tech support people at Witopia, I had an answer to all my questions back in about 5 minutes. I took the Witopia $69.00 plan for 12 months which seems to offer everything I need and probably more, its the one Witopia recommends if you want to watch TV and listen to radio. Now here's the interesting bit, Witopia told me that I'd have to install software on each PC I wanted to use on the VPN but this didn't turn out to be the case in my situation. As luck would have it I had to reconfigure my Billion modem and what did I discover whilst going through the various HTML screens of the configuration pages? A whole page devoted to VPN tunnels so all I had to do in the end to use my Witopia VPN tunnel was to type in my user name, configuration and password, modem took care of the rest and I can access everything now through my VPN using whatever device I choose it seems whether that device be a Mac, a Windows PC, IOS device and even my Logitech Squeezebox devices and that I'm really thrilled about. Now I also have access to services such as Pandora etc, I've not tried this yet but I plan to as I have a piece of software here I bought which makes Pandora totally accessible on the Windows PC and I can access Pandora through my Squeezebox devices, I suspect there's also something out there for Pandora for IOS devices too! From lynne at mac-access.net Fri Dec 16 20:43:21 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2011 20:43:21 +0000 Subject: Suggestions For a Medication Diary Message-ID: <854B0934-4FA8-4691-9645-35377C8FE2C2@mac-access.net> Hello everybody Well, Gordon is now sort of back on his feet and he is definitely back in the land of the living. He's doing some server work; and it's lovely to see I must say. Anyway, to the point. We need to maintain a detailed medical diary for 7 days, outlining precisely what he's taking, in terms of quantity, when he's taking it, and how it's administered. I'm looking for a better solution than just a text tile, but it must be accessible and easy to pick yup. Anybody have any suggestions please, for Mac or for Windows, as to how we night accomplish this? One thing I will say, I'm not buying Microsoft office; so that's out of the window, so to speak. Anything else, Mac or Windows, I will consider; as long as it's accessible and easy to pick up. Thank you in advance. Lynne] From martin at x.it.okstate.edu Fri Dec 16 22:21:26 2011 From: martin at x.it.okstate.edu (Martin McCormick) Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2011 16:21:26 -0600 Subject: Suggestions For a Medication Diary Message-ID: <201112162221.pBGMLQul059578@x.it.okstate.edu> This is a suggestion which I cooked up very quickly but which will let you build a log file. What it produces is a single line per entry containing three pieces of information separated by a ,. It is a unix shell script and you can run it on a Macintosh. The file it writes to is called logfile and it just keeps growing each time you run it. The script is named medlog and I will put it at the very bottom. Please save it to the Mac under a file named medlog and then do the following. Activate terminal. Type the following: chmod +x medlog You are now ready to try it out. Do so by typing ./medlog It will ask you for the medication name. Spaces are okay, but hit enter when you are done with the name. It will then ask you for the quantity and you enter that and hit Enter when you are done. You will get the shell prompt back and you can read the new file called "logfile" that it made. This is the script. Cut here. #!/bin/sh logtime=`date +%y%m%d%H%M` echo "" echo -n "med name " read medname echo -n "Quantity " read quantity echo $medname","$logtime","$quantity >>logfile From grtdane at internode.on.net Fri Dec 16 22:45:38 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane trethowan) Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2011 09:45:38 +1100 Subject: Suggestions For a Medication Diary In-Reply-To: <854B0934-4FA8-4691-9645-35377C8FE2C2@mac-access.net> References: <854B0934-4FA8-4691-9645-35377C8FE2C2@mac-access.net> Message-ID: <4EEBCA12.7060002@internode.on.net> You could make a database with Bento but an even easier way comes to mind, have you thought about using Vijournal? the software was designed from the ground up to do that sort of thing. On 17/12/2011 7:43 AM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: > Hello everybody > > Well, Gordon is now sort of back on his feet and he is definitely back in the land of the living. He's doing some server work; and it's lovely to see I must say. > > Anyway, to the point. We need to maintain a detailed medical diary for 7 days, outlining precisely what he's taking, in terms of quantity, when he's taking it, and how it's administered. I'm looking for a better solution than just a text tile, but it must be accessible and easy to pick yup. Anybody have any suggestions please, for Mac or for Windows, as to how we night accomplish this? One thing I will say, I'm not buying Microsoft office; so that's out of the window, so to speak. Anything else, Mac or Windows, I will consider; as long as it's accessible and easy to pick up. > > Thank you in advance. > > Lynne] > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- -- sent from my HP Powerhouse Notebook. From lynne at mac-access.net Sat Dec 17 11:16:56 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2011 11:16:56 +0000 Subject: Suggestions For a Medication Diary In-Reply-To: <201112162221.pBGMLQul059578@x.it.okstate.edu> References: <201112162221.pBGMLQul059578@x.it.okstate.edu> Message-ID: Hello Martin Thank you for taking the time to explore this for us. I think I'd better explain this for you. I need something which will produce data suitable for printing out in a table so that the doctor can look at it, and see what was taken and when. Thanks again but shell tools and things aren't what I need; I'm not percent enough to handle those and now issn't really the time to learn. Thank you again. Lynne On 16 Dec 2011, at 22:21, Martin McCormick wrote: This is a suggestion which I cooked up very quickly but which will let you build a log file. What it produces is a single line per entry containing three pieces of information separated by a ,. It is a unix shell script and you can run it on a Macintosh. The file it writes to is called logfile and it just keeps growing each time you run it. The script is named medlog and I will put it at the very bottom. Please save it to the Mac under a file named medlog and then do the following. Activate terminal. Type the following: chmod +x medlog You are now ready to try it out. Do so by typing ./medlog It will ask you for the medication name. Spaces are okay, but hit enter when you are done with the name. It will then ask you for the quantity and you enter that and hit Enter when you are done. You will get the shell prompt back and you can read the new file called "logfile" that it made. This is the script. Cut here. #!/bin/sh logtime=`date +%y%m%d%H%M` echo "" echo -n "med name " read medname echo -n "Quantity " read quantity echo $medname","$logtime","$quantity >>logfile ======================================= The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html Or: you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: --------------------------------------- From gordon at mac-access.net Sat Dec 17 11:19:45 2011 From: gordon at mac-access.net (Gordon Smith) Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2011 11:19:45 +0000 Subject: Suggestions For a Medication Diary In-Reply-To: <4EEBCA12.7060002@internode.on.net> References: <854B0934-4FA8-4691-9645-35377C8FE2C2@mac-access.net> <4EEBCA12.7060002@internode.on.net> Message-ID: Hello Dane Yes; I id look at Bento; but a database like that isn't really what I'm after either. As for this other software you're talking about, I'll have to google it. Thank you. Lynne On 16 Dec 2011, at 22:45, Dane trethowan wrote: You could make a database with Bento but an even easier way comes to mind, have you thought about using Vijournal? the software was designed from the ground up to do that sort of thing. On 17/12/2011 7:43 AM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: > Hello everybody > > Well, Gordon is now sort of back on his feet and he is definitely back in the land of the living. He's doing some server work; and it's lovely to see I must say. > > Anyway, to the point. We need to maintain a detailed medical diary for 7 days, outlining precisely what he's taking, in terms of quantity, when he's taking it, and how it's administered. I'm looking for a better solution than just a text tile, but it must be accessible and easy to pick yup. Anybody have any suggestions please, for Mac or for Windows, as to how we night accomplish this? One thing I will say, I'm not buying Microsoft office; so that's out of the window, so to speak. Anything else, Mac or Windows, I will consider; as long as it's accessible and easy to pick up. > > Thank you in advance. > > Lynne] > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- -- sent from my HP Powerhouse Notebook. ======================================= The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html Or: you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: --------------------------------------- From lynne at mac-access.net Sat Dec 17 11:20:39 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2011 11:20:39 +0000 Subject: Suggestions For a Medication Diary In-Reply-To: References: <854B0934-4FA8-4691-9645-35377C8FE2C2@mac-access.net> <4EEBCA12.7060002@internode.on.net> Message-ID: <1C0014EC-3C26-4918-B848-DE2D9176AD97@mac-access.net> Oopse! Forgot to change accounts again. :) Lynne On 17 Dec 2011, at 11:19, Gordon Smith wrote: Hello Dane Yes; I id look at Bento; but a database like that isn't really what I'm after either. As for this other software you're talking about, I'll have to google it. Thank you. Lynne On 16 Dec 2011, at 22:45, Dane trethowan wrote: You could make a database with Bento but an even easier way comes to mind, have you thought about using Vijournal? the software was designed from the ground up to do that sort of thing. On 17/12/2011 7:43 AM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: > Hello everybody > > Well, Gordon is now sort of back on his feet and he is definitely back in the land of the living. He's doing some server work; and it's lovely to see I must say. > > Anyway, to the point. We need to maintain a detailed medical diary for 7 days, outlining precisely what he's taking, in terms of quantity, when he's taking it, and how it's administered. I'm looking for a better solution than just a text tile, but it must be accessible and easy to pick yup. Anybody have any suggestions please, for Mac or for Windows, as to how we night accomplish this? One thing I will say, I'm not buying Microsoft office; so that's out of the window, so to speak. Anything else, Mac or Windows, I will consider; as long as it's accessible and easy to pick up. > > Thank you in advance. > > Lynne] > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- -- sent from my HP Powerhouse Notebook. ======================================= The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html Or: you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: --------------------------------------- ======================================= The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html Or: you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: --------------------------------------- From martin at x.it.okstate.edu Sat Dec 17 13:10:55 2011 From: martin at x.it.okstate.edu (Martin McCormick) Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2011 07:10:55 -0600 Subject: Suggestions For a Medication Diary Message-ID: <201112171310.pBHDAtfD062655@x.it.okstate.edu> "Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith" writes: > Thank you for taking the time to explore this for us. I think I'd better > explain this for you. I need something which will produce data suitable > for printing out in a table so that the doctor can look at it, and see > what was taken and when. > > Thanks again but shell tools and things aren't what I need; I'm not > percent enough to handle those and now issn't really the time to learn. I certainly understand that. I wasn't really sure how far along you are in exploring what is already there in a unix environment which you have on a Mac, but it is better to do that when you have a little time to try things out and reflect on the why of it all when they don't quite work out as can certainly happen. > Thank you again. You are welcome and it is so good that things are looking a little more up lately. If you ever want to try out that shell script, the output it produces is what is called a CSV or Comma Separated Variable string. It is ugly to look at but many word processors can take that and turn it in to nice printable columns that line up as if some master typist had spent all day on it. The part I knew you would probably want to change was the time and date catcher. Sometimes, I have to make a log of blood pressure readings for my doctor and I wrote something similar because it is quick and gets the job done, but I've been playing with unix, now, for a little over 20 years. Anyway, I hope you find something that does what you need without too much trouble. Martin From lynne at mac-access.net Sat Dec 17 13:41:18 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2011 13:41:18 +0000 Subject: Suggestions For a Medication Diary In-Reply-To: <201112171310.pBHDAtfD062655@x.it.okstate.edu> References: <201112171310.pBHDAtfD062655@x.it.okstate.edu> Message-ID: <169C8584-CB79-4829-81C1-473CCA735B2B@mac-access.net> Hello Martin Before we go any further, I want you to know that I am grateful for what you're doing; please don't doubt that for a moment. The Unix environment is alien to me. I simply don't have a clue as to how to fuse most of it except basic terminal commands and IP diagnostics which I'm not too bad at. Other than that, I'm afraid it's a no-go at the moment. I simply couldn't handle it with all the stress I'm under at the moment. So, thank you for your help; as I say,it's appreciate. But I'm going to try Dane's suggestion first, as I have the software and he says it's accessible. Thank you again; and I will retain this message for a time when we're able to explore UNIX generally, as I know Gordon is planning to do that. Lynne On 17 Dec 2011, at 13:10, Martin McCormick wrote: ? I certainly understand that. I wasn't really sure how far along you are in exploring what is already there in a unix environment which you have on a Mac, but it is better to do that when you have a little time to try things out and reflect on the why of it all when they don't quite work out as can certainly happen. > Thank you again. You are welcome and it is so good that things are looking a little more up lately. If you ever want to try out that shell script, the output it produces is what is called a CSV or Comma Separated Variable string. It is ugly to look at but many word processors can take that and turn it in to nice printable columns that line up as if some master typist had spent all day on it. The part I knew you would probably want to change was the time and date catcher. Sometimes, I have to make a log of blood pressure readings for my doctor and I wrote something similar because it is quick and gets the job done, but I've been playing with unix, now, for a little over 20 years. Anyway, I hope you find something that does what you need without too much trouble. Martin ======================================= The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html Or: you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: --------------------------------------- From lynne at mac-access.net Mon Dec 19 14:35:44 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2011 14:35:44 +0000 Subject: Mail Clients Message-ID: <34C6E92C-EFBB-4F69-80BE-1210AADB5BFC@mac-access.net> Hello everybody I'm curious as to which email clients, apart from Thunderbird, there are available for Windows 7. We're trying to decide which client to use and I've read that there are still some horrible issues with WE and Thunderbird. What about Windows Mail, is that worth considering? Gordon is still waiting for the auto-updater to update his InKey with InfoVox 3 and NVDA So that's another consideration. Any feedback gratefully received. Lynne From grtdane at internode.on.net Mon Dec 19 17:40:51 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2011 04:40:51 +1100 Subject: Mail Clients In-Reply-To: <34C6E92C-EFBB-4F69-80BE-1210AADB5BFC@mac-access.net> References: <34C6E92C-EFBB-4F69-80BE-1210AADB5BFC@mac-access.net> Message-ID: <785B937A-7CBE-4FE1-98E6-ECB0372B3BDA@internode.on.net> Yep, there are some issues with Thunderbird and Window-Eyes, that's widely acknowledged and GW Micro have been roundly condemned for saying everything's fixed in the latest version of WE and for not paying attention to the problems, one can actually say that Window-Eyes is nearing the point of being totally "Screwed up", in fact not only has one said it but many have said it and quite rightly . Anyway back to the subject of email clients, again I reckon you're making a mountain out of a molehill. Just put Thunderbird on your system along with NVDA, launch NVDA at the touch of a hotkey and use it with Thunderbird, it just works! On 20/12/2011, at 1:35 AM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: > Hello everybody > > I'm curious as to which email clients, apart from Thunderbird, there are available for Windows 7. We're trying to decide which client to use and I've read that there are still some horrible issues with WE and Thunderbird. What about Windows Mail, is that worth considering? > > Gordon is still waiting for the auto-updater to update his InKey with InfoVox 3 and NVDA So that's another consideration. > > Any feedback gratefully received. > > Lynne > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- From grtdane at internode.on.net Mon Dec 19 20:00:43 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2011 07:00:43 +1100 Subject: Radio Notes Message-ID: <58487683-9CD3-4CB8-8FD7-FC832522E8B4@internode.on.net> Hi! I purchased a Sangean ATS909X "World Band" receiver quite some time ago and I'm now only putting the set through its paces. I could write pages and pages about this unit and I'll do that on my blog in the future I'm sure but I do feel that this set deserves praise for its SSB reception. Tuning round the 8-9MHZ frequency range this morning I was able to listen to the "Flying Doctors" service, the reception wasn't brilliant but I was able to identify the organisation and "Julia Creek", that's a town in Central Australia. Now I've never received this before and - whilst Its obviously possible to receive the service as I proved - I always thought you'd need a bigger aerial than I was using, I just used the built-in telescopic whip of the radio which is around 6 feet long. Perhaps what makes things different these days is the absence of a lot of traffic from the SW bands. For those interested in this radio I recommend it as it is one of the few these days to offer both dual conversion circuitry and a variable RF-gain control across all frequencies from 100-29999KHZ. The set also comes equipped with a very nice "DSP" which brings the radio alive! when listening to medium-wave broadcasts where a strong signal is next to a waker one, the DSP allows the weaker signal to be heard intelligibly. Just a few first thoughts for what they're worth . From lynne at mac-access.net Mon Dec 19 20:25:16 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2011 20:25:16 +0000 Subject: Mail Clients In-Reply-To: <785B937A-7CBE-4FE1-98E6-ECB0372B3BDA@internode.on.net> References: <34C6E92C-EFBB-4F69-80BE-1210AADB5BFC@mac-access.net> <785B937A-7CBE-4FE1-98E6-ECB0372B3BDA@internode.on.net> Message-ID: Hello Dane No, I'm not making mountains out of anything. I jut didn't know what worked and what didn't these days. If Thunderbird and NVDA work, that's absolutely fine. You have to bear in mind that I am not a screen-reader user Dane, therefore I'm probably not aware of all of the issues. I'll get him to put that on then, we'll see how we go. Lynne On 19 Dec 2011, at 17:40, Dane Trethowan wrote: Yep, there are some issues with Thunderbird and Window-Eyes, that's widely acknowledged and GW Micro have been roundly condemned for saying everything's fixed in the latest version of WE and for not paying attention to the problems, one can actually say that Window-Eyes is nearing the point of being totally "Screwed up", in fact not only has one said it but many have said it and quite rightly . Anyway back to the subject of email clients, again I reckon you're making a mountain out of a molehill. Just put Thunderbird on your system along with NVDA, launch NVDA at the touch of a hotkey and use it with Thunderbird, it just works! On 20/12/2011, at 1:35 AM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: > Hello everybody > > I'm curious as to which email clients, apart from Thunderbird, there are available for Windows 7. We're trying to decide which client to use and I've read that there are still some horrible issues with WE and Thunderbird. What about Windows Mail, is that worth considering? > > Gordon is still waiting for the auto-updater to update his InKey with InfoVox 3 and NVDA So that's another consideration. > > Any feedback gratefully received. > > Lynne > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- ======================================= The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html Or: you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: --------------------------------------- From martin at x.it.okstate.edu Mon Dec 19 20:35:35 2011 From: martin at x.it.okstate.edu (Martin McCormick) Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2011 14:35:35 -0600 Subject: Radio Notes Message-ID: <201112192035.pBJKZZcC077580@x.it.okstate.edu> Dane Trethowan writes: > I purchased a Sangean ATS909X "World Band" receiver quite some time ago > and I'm now only putting the set through its paces. > > I could write pages and pages about this unit and I'll do that on my blog > in the future I'm sure but I do feel that this set deserves praise for > its SSB reception. > > Tuning round the 8-9MHZ frequency range this morning I was able to listen > to the "Flying Doctors" service, the reception wasn't brilliant but I was > able to identify the organisation and "Julia Creek", that's a town in > Central Australia. > > Now I've never received this before and - whilst Its obviously possible > to receive the service as I proved - I always thought you'd need a bigger > aerial than I was using, I just used the built-in telescopic whip of the > radio which is around 6 feet long. A bigger antenna would bring in more signals, but sometimes, you run up against the issue of front-end overload where the receiver is overwhelmed by the level of the signals that the outdoor antenna brings in and any active stages in the front end begin to act like mixers which is not what they are supposed to do. > Perhaps what makes things different these days is the absence of a lot of > traffic from the SW bands. > > For those interested in this radio I recommend it as it is one of the few > these days to offer both dual conversion circuitry and a variable RF-gain > control across all frequencies from 100-29999KHZ. That's very good. You should hear the ten-meter amateur band and probably a lot of illegal CB pirates from North America. The only thing I can say about CB pirates is that they are not on the amateur bands. They know better or at least most of them aren't that stupid. > The set also comes equipped with a very nice "DSP" which brings the radio > alive! when listening to medium-wave broadcasts where a strong signal is > next to a waker one, the DSP allows the weaker signal to be heard > intelligibly. With the increasing Solar activity, the Sun is making the frequencies between 20 and 30 MHZ come to life again after several years of nothing but cosmic hiss and static so you should enjoy a lot of good listening. You mentioned the Flying Doctor Service. I read about that some when I was in college as it was the platform that supported the School of the Air for kids who lived in the Outback. This was in the late seventies when I was studying about this topic so I think it was still in operation then. I think the School of the Air now uses satellite terminals which gives them a much better level of service than the short wave radios did, but what the Royal Flying Doctor Service did back then was pure genius. Martin From grtdane at internode.on.net Mon Dec 19 20:39:52 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2011 07:39:52 +1100 Subject: Mail Clients In-Reply-To: References: <34C6E92C-EFBB-4F69-80BE-1210AADB5BFC@mac-access.net> <785B937A-7CBE-4FE1-98E6-ECB0372B3BDA@internode.on.net> Message-ID: You don't know what works these days! well if it comes to that than neither do we , we were given an assurance that the problems with Thunderbird and Window-Eyes would be fixed in the latest 7.5.2 release when actually things have become worse. WE and GW Micro are a laughing stock for this now, everyone else in the Screen Reader business has Thunderbird and browser issues sorted, all except GW Micro and their flagship Window-Eyes Screen reader. One GW-Info list member pretty much summed it up in my view when he said words to the effect that Window-Eyes has never been the same since scripts and apps were introduced. On 20/12/2011, at 7:25 AM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: > Hello Dane > > No, I'm not making mountains out of anything. I jut didn't know what worked and what didn't these days. If Thunderbird and NVDA work, that's absolutely fine. You have to bear in mind that I am not a screen-reader user Dane, therefore I'm probably not aware of all of the issues. > > I'll get him to put that on then, we'll see how we go. > > Lynne > > > On 19 Dec 2011, at 17:40, Dane Trethowan wrote: > > Yep, there are some issues with Thunderbird and Window-Eyes, that's widely acknowledged and GW Micro have been roundly condemned for saying everything's fixed in the latest version of WE and for not paying attention to the problems, one can actually say that Window-Eyes is nearing the point of being totally "Screwed up", in fact not only has one said it but many have said it and quite rightly . > > Anyway back to the subject of email clients, again I reckon you're making a mountain out of a molehill. > > Just put Thunderbird on your system along with NVDA, launch NVDA at the touch of a hotkey and use it with Thunderbird, it just works! > > > On 20/12/2011, at 1:35 AM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: > >> Hello everybody >> >> I'm curious as to which email clients, apart from Thunderbird, there are available for Windows 7. We're trying to decide which client to use and I've read that there are still some horrible issues with WE and Thunderbird. What about Windows Mail, is that worth considering? >> >> Gordon is still waiting for the auto-updater to update his InKey with InfoVox 3 and NVDA So that's another consideration. >> >> Any feedback gratefully received. >> >> Lynne >> >> >> ======================================= >> >> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free >> >> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat >> >> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: >> >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html >> >> Or: >> >> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: >> >> >> --------------------------------------- > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- From grtdane at internode.on.net Mon Dec 19 20:46:30 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2011 07:46:30 +1100 Subject: Radio Notes In-Reply-To: <201112192035.pBJKZZcC077580@x.it.okstate.edu> References: <201112192035.pBJKZZcC077580@x.it.okstate.edu> Message-ID: School Of The Air is still broadcasting on Shortwave apparently, someone's just sent me a frequency guide so I'll take a listen. According to the information I've just received, School Of The Air are planning to use a mode of DRM on shortwave, now that will be interesting. On 20/12/2011, at 7:35 AM, Martin McCormick wrote: > Dane Trethowan writes: >> I purchased a Sangean ATS909X "World Band" receiver quite some time ago >> and I'm now only putting the set through its paces. >> >> I could write pages and pages about this unit and I'll do that on my blog >> in the future I'm sure but I do feel that this set deserves praise for >> its SSB reception. >> >> Tuning round the 8-9MHZ frequency range this morning I was able to listen >> to the "Flying Doctors" service, the reception wasn't brilliant but I was >> able to identify the organisation and "Julia Creek", that's a town in >> Central Australia. >> >> Now I've never received this before and - whilst Its obviously possible >> to receive the service as I proved - I always thought you'd need a bigger >> aerial than I was using, I just used the built-in telescopic whip of the >> radio which is around 6 feet long. > > A bigger antenna would bring in more signals, but sometimes, you > run up against the issue of front-end overload where the > receiver is overwhelmed by the level of the signals that the > outdoor antenna brings in and any active stages in the front end > begin to act like mixers which is not what they are supposed to > do. > >> Perhaps what makes things different these days is the absence of a lot of >> traffic from the SW bands. >> >> For those interested in this radio I recommend it as it is one of the few >> these days to offer both dual conversion circuitry and a variable RF-gain >> control across all frequencies from 100-29999KHZ. > > That's very good. You should hear the ten-meter amateur > band and probably a lot of illegal CB pirates from North > America. The only thing I can say about CB pirates is that > they are not on the amateur bands. They know better or at least > most of them aren't that stupid. > >> The set also comes equipped with a very nice "DSP" which brings the radio >> alive! when listening to medium-wave broadcasts where a strong signal is >> next to a waker one, the DSP allows the weaker signal to be heard >> intelligibly. > > With the increasing Solar activity, the Sun is making > the frequencies between 20 and 30 MHZ come to life again after > several years of nothing but cosmic hiss and static so you > should enjoy a lot of good listening. > > You mentioned the Flying Doctor Service. I read about > that some when I was in college as it was the platform that > supported the School of the Air for kids who lived in the > Outback. This was in the late seventies when I was studying > about this topic so I think it was still in operation then. I > think the School of the Air now uses satellite terminals which > gives them a much better level of service than the short wave > radios did, but what the Royal Flying Doctor Service did back > then was pure genius. > > Martin > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- From chris.hallsworth at techno-chat.net Mon Dec 19 21:27:47 2011 From: chris.hallsworth at techno-chat.net (chris hallsworth) Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2011 21:27:47 +0000 Subject: GWSkype Message-ID: <4EEFAC53.6040208@techno-chat.net> Hello all. I wish to proudly spread the word about this little gem, released literally hours ago. It provides an alternative, accessible user interface to the Skype service and is developed by the makers of Window-Eyes, GW Micro. The interesting thing is that you do not need to be a Window-Eyes customer, nor do you need to use Window-Eyes at all, with this program. Any screen reader, or no screen reader at all, will work with this program. You can just about do everything that you can with Skype. Make and receive calls, send and receive chats, transfer and receive files, etc. You can download the program from www.gwmicro.com/apps/GWSkype. Enjoy! From grtdane at internode.on.net Mon Dec 19 21:46:07 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2011 08:46:07 +1100 Subject: GWSkype In-Reply-To: <4EEFAC53.6040208@techno-chat.net> References: <4EEFAC53.6040208@techno-chat.net> Message-ID: <81CBFE34-3FB6-411B-916D-1E426E88A358@internode.on.net> Yep, now I'm not saying this is the same thing but there's another project called Skype Talking which doesn't even require a Screen Reader, just run it and you have Skype accessible and ready to go. On 20/12/2011, at 8:27 AM, chris hallsworth wrote: > Hello all. > I wish to proudly spread the word about this little gem, released literally hours ago. It provides an alternative, accessible user interface to the Skype service and is developed by the makers of Window-Eyes, GW Micro. The interesting thing is that you do not need to be a Window-Eyes customer, nor do you need to use Window-Eyes at all, with this program. Any screen reader, or no screen reader at all, will work with this program. You can just about do everything that you can with Skype. Make and receive calls, send and receive chats, transfer and receive files, etc. You can download the program from www.gwmicro.com/apps/GWSkype. > Enjoy! > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- From grtdane at internode.on.net Mon Dec 19 21:47:53 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2011 08:47:53 +1100 Subject: GWSkype In-Reply-To: <4EEFAC53.6040208@techno-chat.net> References: <4EEFAC53.6040208@techno-chat.net> Message-ID: <245F0E2D-200E-4CB8-B26A-524EF8BBC587@internode.on.net> Chris, tell GW Micro from me that I'd rather them fix Window-Eyes first than develop what's already out there in the form of accessible Skype software, I'd tell them myself but I just got off their list and I'm absolutely disgusted with that company and the way they're treating their client base right now. On 20/12/2011, at 8:27 AM, chris hallsworth wrote: > Hello all. > I wish to proudly spread the word about this little gem, released literally hours ago. It provides an alternative, accessible user interface to the Skype service and is developed by the makers of Window-Eyes, GW Micro. The interesting thing is that you do not need to be a Window-Eyes customer, nor do you need to use Window-Eyes at all, with this program. Any screen reader, or no screen reader at all, will work with this program. You can just about do everything that you can with Skype. Make and receive calls, send and receive chats, transfer and receive files, etc. You can download the program from www.gwmicro.com/apps/GWSkype. > Enjoy! > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- From chris.hallsworth at techno-chat.net Mon Dec 19 22:24:43 2011 From: chris.hallsworth at techno-chat.net (chris hallsworth) Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2011 22:24:43 +0000 Subject: GWSkype In-Reply-To: <245F0E2D-200E-4CB8-B26A-524EF8BBC587@internode.on.net> References: <4EEFAC53.6040208@techno-chat.net> <245F0E2D-200E-4CB8-B26A-524EF8BBC587@internode.on.net> Message-ID: <4EEFB9AB.5040609@techno-chat.net> Well, sorry to hear of your problems, but they are a company and they need to promote themselves somehow. One way was to give back something for us at no charge in time for Christmas. Oh well, if we were all happy life would be boring smiles. I agree they should fix Window-Eyes, but just some thoughts anyway. On 19/12/2011 21:47, Dane Trethowan wrote: > Chris, tell GW Micro from me that I'd rather them fix Window-Eyes first than develop what's already out there in the form of accessible Skype software, I'd tell them myself but I just got off their list and I'm absolutely disgusted with that company and the way they're treating their client base right now. > > > On 20/12/2011, at 8:27 AM, chris hallsworth wrote: > >> Hello all. >> I wish to proudly spread the word about this little gem, released literally hours ago. It provides an alternative, accessible user interface to the Skype service and is developed by the makers of Window-Eyes, GW Micro. The interesting thing is that you do not need to be a Window-Eyes customer, nor do you need to use Window-Eyes at all, with this program. Any screen reader, or no screen reader at all, will work with this program. You can just about do everything that you can with Skype. Make and receive calls, send and receive chats, transfer and receive files, etc. You can download the program from www.gwmicro.com/apps/GWSkype. >> Enjoy! >> >> ======================================= >> >> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free >> >> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat >> >> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: >> >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html >> >> Or: >> >> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: >> >> >> --------------------------------------- > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- > From grtdane at internode.on.net Mon Dec 19 22:59:42 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2011 09:59:42 +1100 Subject: GWSkype In-Reply-To: <4EEFB9AB.5040609@techno-chat.net> References: <4EEFAC53.6040208@techno-chat.net> <245F0E2D-200E-4CB8-B26A-524EF8BBC587@internode.on.net> <4EEFB9AB.5040609@techno-chat.net> Message-ID: <501CC2FA-0879-441B-BC51-F6BBD7167B69@internode.on.net> I'm not the only one who is having problems as you know yourself , under these circumstances "The Gift" as you call it seems like an outright attention seeking ploy to divert people's attention away from the real problems of their Screen Reader, Freedom Scientific have given away small gifts for want of a better description, when I last looked on their site you could download their Daisy Reader software. On 20/12/2011, at 9:24 AM, chris hallsworth wrote: > Well, sorry to hear of your problems, but they are a company and they need to promote themselves somehow. One way was to give back something for us at no charge in time for Christmas. Oh well, if we were all happy life would be boring smiles. I agree they should fix Window-Eyes, but just some thoughts anyway. > > On 19/12/2011 21:47, Dane Trethowan wrote: >> Chris, tell GW Micro from me that I'd rather them fix Window-Eyes first than develop what's already out there in the form of accessible Skype software, I'd tell them myself but I just got off their list and I'm absolutely disgusted with that company and the way they're treating their client base right now. >> >> >> On 20/12/2011, at 8:27 AM, chris hallsworth wrote: >> >>> Hello all. >>> I wish to proudly spread the word about this little gem, released literally hours ago. It provides an alternative, accessible user interface to the Skype service and is developed by the makers of Window-Eyes, GW Micro. The interesting thing is that you do not need to be a Window-Eyes customer, nor do you need to use Window-Eyes at all, with this program. Any screen reader, or no screen reader at all, will work with this program. You can just about do everything that you can with Skype. Make and receive calls, send and receive chats, transfer and receive files, etc. You can download the program from www.gwmicro.com/apps/GWSkype. >>> Enjoy! >>> >>> ======================================= >>> >>> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free >>> >>> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at >>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat >>> >>> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: >>> >>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html >>> >>> Or: >>> >>> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: >>> >>> >>> --------------------------------------- >> >> >> ======================================= >> >> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free >> >> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat >> >> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: >> >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html >> >> Or: >> >> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: >> >> >> --------------------------------------- >> > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- From djden at thejazzden.org.uk Tue Dec 20 01:03:30 2011 From: djden at thejazzden.org.uk (Thejazzden) Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2011 01:03:30 +0000 Subject: GWSkype In-Reply-To: <501CC2FA-0879-441B-BC51-F6BBD7167B69@internode.on.net> References: <4EEFAC53.6040208@techno-chat.net> <245F0E2D-200E-4CB8-B26A-524EF8BBC587@internode.on.net> <4EEFB9AB.5040609@techno-chat.net> <501CC2FA-0879-441B-BC51-F6BBD7167B69@internode.on.net> Message-ID: Chris, Geoff et al I must say I tend to agree with Geoff, but would like to widen the discussion - is a subject change in order? I'm interested in other people's views on an increasing number of 'self-voicing' programs that are coming out. There is great trumpetting when these appear, to the effect that 'no screenreader is required'. Great stuff. But is the reality not that, in order for visually impaired people to use computers efficiently, they at this time DO need a screenreader? Yes, if every single app came out with a self-voicing option for the blind, then screenreaders would be redundant. But that time certainly has not yet arrived. Skype, in my humble view, is accessible enough to make it useable by visually impaired people with screenreaders. I will stop there but would welcome any other views. Dennis. Dennis Freedman The best aromatherapy in the UK - www.e-nat.co.uk Sent from my iPhone On 19 Dec 2011, at 22:59, Dane Trethowan wrote: > I'm not the only one who is having problems as you know yourself , under these circumstances "The Gift" as you call it seems like an outright attention seeking ploy to divert people's attention away from the real problems of their Screen Reader, Freedom Scientific have given away small gifts for want of a better description, when I last looked on their site you could download their Daisy Reader software. > > > On 20/12/2011, at 9:24 AM, chris hallsworth wrote: > >> Well, sorry to hear of your problems, but they are a company and they need to promote themselves somehow. One way was to give back something for us at no charge in time for Christmas. Oh well, if we were all happy life would be boring smiles. I agree they should fix Window-Eyes, but just some thoughts anyway. >> >> On 19/12/2011 21:47, Dane Trethowan wrote: >>> Chris, tell GW Micro from me that I'd rather them fix Window-Eyes first than develop what's already out there in the form of accessible Skype software, I'd tell them myself but I just got off their list and I'm absolutely disgusted with that company and the way they're treating their client base right now. >>> >>> >>> On 20/12/2011, at 8:27 AM, chris hallsworth wrote: >>> >>>> Hello all. >>>> I wish to proudly spread the word about this little gem, released literally hours ago. It provides an alternative, accessible user interface to the Skype service and is developed by the makers of Window-Eyes, GW Micro. The interesting thing is that you do not need to be a Window-Eyes customer, nor do you need to use Window-Eyes at all, with this program. Any screen reader, or no screen reader at all, will work with this program. You can just about do everything that you can with Skype. Make and receive calls, send and receive chats, transfer and receive files, etc. You can download the program from www.gwmicro.com/apps/GWSkype. >>>> Enjoy! >>>> >>>> ======================================= >>>> >>>> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free >>>> >>>> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at >>>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat >>>> >>>> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: >>>> >>>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html >>>> >>>> Or: >>>> >>>> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: >>>> >>>> >>>> --------------------------------------- >>> >>> >>> ======================================= >>> >>> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free >>> >>> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at >>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat >>> >>> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: >>> >>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html >>> >>> Or: >>> >>> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: >>> >>> >>> --------------------------------------- >>> >> >> ======================================= >> >> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free >> >> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat >> >> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: >> >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html >> >> Or: >> >> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: >> >> >> --------------------------------------- > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- From djden at thejazzden.org.uk Tue Dec 20 01:17:01 2011 From: djden at thejazzden.org.uk (Thejazzden) Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2011 01:17:01 +0000 Subject: Mail Clients In-Reply-To: References: <34C6E92C-EFBB-4F69-80BE-1210AADB5BFC@mac-access.net> <785B937A-7CBE-4FE1-98E6-ECB0372B3BDA@internode.on.net> Message-ID: <0CB5B02B-9BD2-493A-BB0E-F03FAC2FC7EE@thejazzden.org.uk> Hi Lynne, Damion et al I used to use Thunderbird but as noted problems now with WindowEyes. I also sometimes had problems using it with my IMap server. I now am using MacMail on the Mac and this is fine, and Outlooook with WindowEyes, but the MS Word pane keeps disappearing and if I try orther views this too seems eratic. I am reluctant to use three different screenreaders for different apps, and wish I could just go back to the good old days before Window-Eyes got too big for its boots and I used Outlook Express. Ah well, I must be getting old. hBut seriously, I must admit I am doing rather more than half of my emails these days from my IPhone with a BlueTooth keyboard and have no problems reading or sending emails or attachments. Second place, as said, goes to MacMail - mhyonly problem with this is that sometimes I have problems with my network, which I know is not MacMail's problem. Dennis. Dennis Freedman The best aromatherapy in the UK - www.e-nat.co.uk Sent from my iPhone On 19 Dec 2011, at 20:39, Dane Trethowan wrote: > You don't know what works these days! well if it comes to that than neither do we , we were given an assurance that the problems with Thunderbird and Window-Eyes would be fixed in the latest 7.5.2 release when actually things have become worse. > > WE and GW Micro are a laughing stock for this now, everyone else in the Screen Reader business has Thunderbird and browser issues sorted, all except GW Micro and their flagship Window-Eyes Screen reader. > > One GW-Info list member pretty much summed it up in my view when he said words to the effect that Window-Eyes has never been the same since scripts and apps were introduced. > > > On 20/12/2011, at 7:25 AM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: > >> Hello Dane >> >> No, I'm not making mountains out of anything. I jut didn't know what worked and what didn't these days. If Thunderbird and NVDA work, that's absolutely fine. You have to bear in mind that I am not a screen-reader user Dane, therefore I'm probably not aware of all of the issues. >> >> I'll get him to put that on then, we'll see how we go. >> >> Lynne >> >> >> On 19 Dec 2011, at 17:40, Dane Trethowan wrote: >> >> Yep, there are some issues with Thunderbird and Window-Eyes, that's widely acknowledged and GW Micro have been roundly condemned for saying everything's fixed in the latest version of WE and for not paying attention to the problems, one can actually say that Window-Eyes is nearing the point of being totally "Screwed up", in fact not only has one said it but many have said it and quite rightly . >> >> Anyway back to the subject of email clients, again I reckon you're making a mountain out of a molehill. >> >> Just put Thunderbird on your system along with NVDA, launch NVDA at the touch of a hotkey and use it with Thunderbird, it just works! >> >> >> On 20/12/2011, at 1:35 AM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: >> >>> Hello everybody >>> >>> I'm curious as to which email clients, apart from Thunderbird, there are available for Windows 7. We're trying to decide which client to use and I've read that there are still some horrible issues with WE and Thunderbird. What about Windows Mail, is that worth considering? >>> >>> Gordon is still waiting for the auto-updater to update his InKey with InfoVox 3 and NVDA So that's another consideration. >>> >>> Any feedback gratefully received. >>> >>> Lynne >>> >>> >>> ======================================= >>> >>> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free >>> >>> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at >>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat >>> >>> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: >>> >>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html >>> >>> Or: >>> >>> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: >>> >>> >>> --------------------------------------- >> >> >> ======================================= >> >> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free >> >> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat >> >> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: >> >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html >> >> Or: >> >> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: >> >> >> --------------------------------------- >> >> >> ======================================= >> >> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free >> >> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat >> >> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: >> >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html >> >> Or: >> >> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: >> >> >> --------------------------------------- > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- From martin at x.it.okstate.edu Tue Dec 20 14:25:18 2011 From: martin at x.it.okstate.edu (Martin McCormick) Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2011 08:25:18 -0600 Subject: Radio Notes Message-ID: <201112201425.pBKEPI6R082680@x.it.okstate.edu> That is interesting. I would be interested in knowing what frequencies are used as some of them could, at times make it to North America but it would be very rare. For anybody else reading, the DRM Dane is speaking about is not Digital Right Management although one might be able to include that in the protocol. It is Digital Radio Mundial which was a name coined that would work in many different languages. It is a method of digital audio encoding that makes short wave sound like a high-quality AM or maybe even a FM broadcast station. None of that selective fading and static crashes that give short wave its characteristic sounds as we know them. There's even DRM for amateur radio though I don't know any more than that. I've heard some demo recordings from DRM and they sound wonderful until a deep fade comes along and then it is just dead silence like all digital media. In other words, it's really good until it shuts off. Dane Trethowan writes: > School Of The Air is still broadcasting on Shortwave apparently, > someone's just sent me a frequency guide so I'll take a listen. > > According to the information I've just received, School Of The Air are > planning to use a mode of DRM on shortwave, now that will be interesting. From grtdane at internode.on.net Tue Dec 20 17:35:23 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2011 04:35:23 +1100 Subject: Radio Notes In-Reply-To: <201112201425.pBKEPI6R082680@x.it.okstate.edu> References: <201112201425.pBKEPI6R082680@x.it.okstate.edu> Message-ID: <320ABDD1-8284-4CE2-8B47-865A71AADA5B@internode.on.net> I'm trying to get more information on the type of DRM School Of The Air or the Flying Doctors may use, from what I understand its another variant on the DRM protocol, a DRM version of a trunking network, if that's the case then it would be near impossible to listen to without a particularly radio. On 21/12/2011, at 1:25 AM, Martin McCormick wrote: > That is interesting. I would be interested in knowing what > frequencies are used as some of them could, at times make it to > North America but it would be very rare. > > For anybody else reading, the DRM Dane is speaking about > is not Digital Right Management although one might be able to > include that in the protocol. It is Digital Radio Mundial which > was a name coined that would work in many different languages. > It is a method of digital audio encoding that makes short wave > sound like a high-quality AM or maybe even a FM broadcast > station. None of that selective fading and static crashes that > give short wave its characteristic sounds as we know them. > > There's even DRM for amateur radio though I don't know > any more than that. > > I've heard some demo recordings from DRM and they sound > wonderful until a deep fade comes along and then it is just dead > silence like all digital media. In other words, it's really good > until it shuts off. > > Dane Trethowan writes: >> School Of The Air is still broadcasting on Shortwave apparently, >> someone's just sent me a frequency guide so I'll take a listen. >> >> According to the information I've just received, School Of The Air are >> planning to use a mode of DRM on shortwave, now that will be interesting. > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- From grtdane at internode.on.net Fri Dec 23 22:44:35 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Sat, 24 Dec 2011 09:44:35 +1100 Subject: News Radio Message-ID: <3FCEEE47-DD79-47D0-9995-7A76E331A65B@internode.on.net> Hi! Just wondering if anyone has any suggestions as to good "News Radio" stations in the U.S. I can listen to? Have to hand it to the U.S., they sure know how to pump out "News Radio", the services in the U.K. and particularly in Australia are pretty bad compared with what the U.S. gives its citizen's. Anyway I've been listening to KNX, WBBM, WINS and WCBS so what else is there? All the above are excellent stations in my opinion and by the way, thanks to and their VPN service for making it all possible. From moopiecurran at gmail.com Sat Dec 24 00:06:32 2011 From: moopiecurran at gmail.com (Courtney Curran) Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2011 19:06:32 -0500 Subject: News Radio In-Reply-To: <3FCEEE47-DD79-47D0-9995-7A76E331A65B@internode.on.net> References: <3FCEEE47-DD79-47D0-9995-7A76E331A65B@internode.on.net> Message-ID: <93034213-FA5F-4C82-AFFD-D9AC11648BC9@gmail.com> Hi Dane, I love news radio, some awesome stations are WTOP radio out of D.C., WCBS 880 out of New York City, 1010 WINS out of New York City, WBBM out of Chicago, KNX out of Los Angeles, KCBS out of San Francisco, KYW out of Philadelphia, and also WWJ out of De Troit. Though come January, there will be another news radio station out of the D.C. area, it will be WNEW. I can send you the links to all of the station streams I mentioned above if you want. Thanks and Merry Christmas, Courtney Sent from my macbook air On Dec 23, 2011, at 5:44 PM, Dane Trethowan wrote: > Hi! > > Just wondering if anyone has any suggestions as to good "News Radio" stations in the U.S. I can listen to? Have to hand it to the U.S., they sure know how to pump out "News Radio", the services in the U.K. and particularly in Australia are pretty bad compared with what the U.S. gives its citizen's. > > Anyway I've been listening to KNX, WBBM, WINS and WCBS so what else is there? All the above are excellent stations in my opinion and by the way, thanks to and their VPN service for making it all possible. > > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- From grtdane at internode.on.net Sat Dec 24 00:35:43 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Sat, 24 Dec 2011 11:35:43 +1100 Subject: News Radio In-Reply-To: <93034213-FA5F-4C82-AFFD-D9AC11648BC9@gmail.com> References: <3FCEEE47-DD79-47D0-9995-7A76E331A65B@internode.on.net> <93034213-FA5F-4C82-AFFD-D9AC11648BC9@gmail.com> Message-ID: I appreciate that but no need to send all the links, just the names will be fine as I can look them up using Ootunes or on my Squeezebox system. A few names you mentioned that I've not listened to yet so some great Christmas listening up ahead by the sounds of things. On 24/12/2011, at 11:06 AM, Courtney Curran wrote: > Hi Dane, > I love news radio, some awesome stations are WTOP radio out of D.C., WCBS 880 out of New York City, 1010 WINS out of New York City, WBBM out of Chicago, KNX out of Los Angeles, KCBS out of San Francisco, KYW out of Philadelphia, and also WWJ out of De Troit. Though come January, there will be another news radio station out of the D.C. area, it will be WNEW. I can send you the links to all of the station streams I mentioned above if you want. > Thanks and Merry Christmas, > > Courtney > > > Sent from my macbook air > > On Dec 23, 2011, at 5:44 PM, Dane Trethowan wrote: > >> Hi! >> >> Just wondering if anyone has any suggestions as to good "News Radio" stations in the U.S. I can listen to? Have to hand it to the U.S., they sure know how to pump out "News Radio", the services in the U.K. and particularly in Australia are pretty bad compared with what the U.S. gives its citizen's. >> >> Anyway I've been listening to KNX, WBBM, WINS and WCBS so what else is there? All the above are excellent stations in my opinion and by the way, thanks to and their VPN service for making it all possible. >> >> >> >> ======================================= >> >> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free >> >> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat >> >> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: >> >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html >> >> Or: >> >> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: >> >> >> --------------------------------------- > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- From moopiecurran at gmail.com Sat Dec 24 00:43:06 2011 From: moopiecurran at gmail.com (Courtney Curran) Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2011 19:43:06 -0500 Subject: News Radio In-Reply-To: References: <3FCEEE47-DD79-47D0-9995-7A76E331A65B@internode.on.net> <93034213-FA5F-4C82-AFFD-D9AC11648BC9@gmail.com> Message-ID: <-2715024163304081977@unknownmsgid> Hi, One thing I forgot to mention, is that 99.1 WNEW won't be all-news until the 1st of January, 2012. Right now, they're just playing Christmas music to fill the time. They aren't yet online either. The only reason I know about the station is it's in my area. They will have an online stream though, since it's a CBS radio station. I think it will be something like the before mentioned 1010 WINS. Courtney Sent from my iPad On 23 Dec 2011, at 07:35 PM, Dane Trethowan wrote: > I appreciate that but no need to send all the links, just the names will be fine as I can look them up using Ootunes or on my Squeezebox system. > > A few names you mentioned that I've not listened to yet so some great Christmas listening up ahead by the sounds of things. > > > On 24/12/2011, at 11:06 AM, Courtney Curran wrote: > >> Hi Dane, >> I love news radio, some awesome stations are WTOP radio out of D.C., WCBS 880 out of New York City, 1010 WINS out of New York City, WBBM out of Chicago, KNX out of Los Angeles, KCBS out of San Francisco, KYW out of Philadelphia, and also WWJ out of De Troit. Though come January, there will be another news radio station out of the D.C. area, it will be WNEW. I can send you the links to all of the station streams I mentioned above if you want. >> Thanks and Merry Christmas, >> >> Courtney >> >> >> Sent from my macbook air >> >> On Dec 23, 2011, at 5:44 PM, Dane Trethowan wrote: >> >>> Hi! >>> >>> Just wondering if anyone has any suggestions as to good "News Radio" stations in the U.S. I can listen to? Have to hand it to the U.S., they sure know how to pump out "News Radio", the services in the U.K. and particularly in Australia are pretty bad compared with what the U.S. gives its citizen's. >>> >>> Anyway I've been listening to KNX, WBBM, WINS and WCBS so what else is there? All the above are excellent stations in my opinion and by the way, thanks to and their VPN service for making it all possible. >>> >>> >>> >>> ======================================= >>> >>> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free >>> >>> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at >>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat >>> >>> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: >>> >>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html >>> >>> Or: >>> >>> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: >>> >>> >>> --------------------------------------- >> >> >> ======================================= >> >> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free >> >> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat >> >> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: >> >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html >> >> Or: >> >> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: >> >> >> --------------------------------------- > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- From grtdane at internode.on.net Sat Dec 24 00:58:37 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Sat, 24 Dec 2011 11:58:37 +1100 Subject: News Radio In-Reply-To: <-2715024163304081977@unknownmsgid> References: <3FCEEE47-DD79-47D0-9995-7A76E331A65B@internode.on.net> <93034213-FA5F-4C82-AFFD-D9AC11648BC9@gmail.com> <-2715024163304081977@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: <571D31E2-83FB-422E-91A4-A52D050B03BB@internode.on.net> Its interesting how Wins have a teleprinter in the background, thought those things went out with the nickbockers. On 24/12/2011, at 11:43 AM, Courtney Curran wrote: > Hi, > One thing I forgot to mention, is that 99.1 WNEW won't be all-news > until the 1st of January, 2012. Right now, they're just playing > Christmas music to fill the time. They aren't yet online either. The > only reason I know about the station is it's in my area. They will > have an online stream though, since it's a CBS radio station. I think > it will be something like the before mentioned 1010 WINS. > > Courtney > > Sent from my iPad > > On 23 Dec 2011, at 07:35 PM, Dane Trethowan wrote: > >> I appreciate that but no need to send all the links, just the names will be fine as I can look them up using Ootunes or on my Squeezebox system. >> >> A few names you mentioned that I've not listened to yet so some great Christmas listening up ahead by the sounds of things. >> >> >> On 24/12/2011, at 11:06 AM, Courtney Curran wrote: >> >>> Hi Dane, >>> I love news radio, some awesome stations are WTOP radio out of D.C., WCBS 880 out of New York City, 1010 WINS out of New York City, WBBM out of Chicago, KNX out of Los Angeles, KCBS out of San Francisco, KYW out of Philadelphia, and also WWJ out of De Troit. Though come January, there will be another news radio station out of the D.C. area, it will be WNEW. I can send you the links to all of the station streams I mentioned above if you want. >>> Thanks and Merry Christmas, >>> >>> Courtney >>> >>> >>> Sent from my macbook air >>> >>> On Dec 23, 2011, at 5:44 PM, Dane Trethowan wrote: >>> >>>> Hi! >>>> >>>> Just wondering if anyone has any suggestions as to good "News Radio" stations in the U.S. I can listen to? Have to hand it to the U.S., they sure know how to pump out "News Radio", the services in the U.K. and particularly in Australia are pretty bad compared with what the U.S. gives its citizen's. >>>> >>>> Anyway I've been listening to KNX, WBBM, WINS and WCBS so what else is there? All the above are excellent stations in my opinion and by the way, thanks to and their VPN service for making it all possible. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ======================================= >>>> >>>> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free >>>> >>>> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at >>>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat >>>> >>>> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: >>>> >>>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html >>>> >>>> Or: >>>> >>>> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: >>>> >>>> >>>> --------------------------------------- >>> >>> >>> ======================================= >>> >>> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free >>> >>> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at >>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat >>> >>> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: >>> >>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html >>> >>> Or: >>> >>> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: >>> >>> >>> --------------------------------------- >> >> >> ======================================= >> >> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free >> >> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat >> >> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: >> >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html >> >> Or: >> >> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: >> >> >> --------------------------------------- > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- From moopiecurran at gmail.com Sat Dec 24 01:00:52 2011 From: moopiecurran at gmail.com (Courtney Curran) Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2011 20:00:52 -0500 Subject: News Radio In-Reply-To: <571D31E2-83FB-422E-91A4-A52D050B03BB@internode.on.net> References: <3FCEEE47-DD79-47D0-9995-7A76E331A65B@internode.on.net> <93034213-FA5F-4C82-AFFD-D9AC11648BC9@gmail.com> <-2715024163304081977@unknownmsgid> <571D31E2-83FB-422E-91A4-A52D050B03BB@internode.on.net> Message-ID: <-7825926617957434438@unknownmsgid> Hi, I think KYW has one too. I kind of like the teletype machine. It gives the news kind of a retro feel. Courtney Sent from my iPad On 23 Dec 2011, at 07:58 PM, Dane Trethowan wrote: > Its interesting how Wins have a teleprinter in the background, thought those things went out with the nickbockers. > > > On 24/12/2011, at 11:43 AM, Courtney Curran wrote: > >> Hi, >> One thing I forgot to mention, is that 99.1 WNEW won't be all-news >> until the 1st of January, 2012. Right now, they're just playing >> Christmas music to fill the time. They aren't yet online either. The >> only reason I know about the station is it's in my area. They will >> have an online stream though, since it's a CBS radio station. I think >> it will be something like the before mentioned 1010 WINS. >> >> Courtney >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On 23 Dec 2011, at 07:35 PM, Dane Trethowan wrote: >> >>> I appreciate that but no need to send all the links, just the names will be fine as I can look them up using Ootunes or on my Squeezebox system. >>> >>> A few names you mentioned that I've not listened to yet so some great Christmas listening up ahead by the sounds of things. >>> >>> >>> On 24/12/2011, at 11:06 AM, Courtney Curran wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Dane, >>>> I love news radio, some awesome stations are WTOP radio out of D.C., WCBS 880 out of New York City, 1010 WINS out of New York City, WBBM out of Chicago, KNX out of Los Angeles, KCBS out of San Francisco, KYW out of Philadelphia, and also WWJ out of De Troit. Though come January, there will be another news radio station out of the D.C. area, it will be WNEW. I can send you the links to all of the station streams I mentioned above if you want. >>>> Thanks and Merry Christmas, >>>> >>>> Courtney >>>> >>>> >>>> Sent from my macbook air >>>> >>>> On Dec 23, 2011, at 5:44 PM, Dane Trethowan wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi! >>>>> >>>>> Just wondering if anyone has any suggestions as to good "News Radio" stations in the U.S. I can listen to? Have to hand it to the U.S., they sure know how to pump out "News Radio", the services in the U.K. and particularly in Australia are pretty bad compared with what the U.S. gives its citizen's. >>>>> >>>>> Anyway I've been listening to KNX, WBBM, WINS and WCBS so what else is there? All the above are excellent stations in my opinion and by the way, thanks to and their VPN service for making it all possible. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ======================================= >>>>> >>>>> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free >>>>> >>>>> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at >>>>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat >>>>> >>>>> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: >>>>> >>>>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html >>>>> >>>>> Or: >>>>> >>>>> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> --------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> >>>> ======================================= >>>> >>>> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free >>>> >>>> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at >>>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat >>>> >>>> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: >>>> >>>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html >>>> >>>> Or: >>>> >>>> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: >>>> >>>> >>>> --------------------------------------- >>> >>> >>> ======================================= >>> >>> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free >>> >>> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at >>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat >>> >>> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: >>> >>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html >>> >>> Or: >>> >>> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: >>> >>> >>> --------------------------------------- >> >> ======================================= >> >> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free >> >> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat >> >> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: >> >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html >> >> Or: >> >> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: >> >> >> --------------------------------------- > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- From marrie12 at gmail.com Sat Dec 24 03:07:01 2011 From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah Alawami) Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2011 19:07:01 -0800 Subject: an html question Message-ID: <5E4B723C-8F1A-456C-998E-C66D494A4D66@gmail.com> Ok I wrote a blog post in html. I put a blog quote with a few paragraphs in between eh blockquote tag Now when I tested it with my computer I heard "blog quote level 1." How do I not get it to say that? I want it to read begin bloc quote and end block quote but not say it at the end of every paragraph. thanks. From lynne at mac-access.net Sat Dec 24 12:21:07 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Sat, 24 Dec 2011 12:21:07 +0000 Subject: OmniPage 18 Professional Windows; [initial impressions] Message-ID: Hello everybody Upon its release earlier this year, I bought us a copy of OmniPage Professional 18 for Windows by Nuance, Inc. Due to a lot of combined circumstances which I won't outline, we have only just yesterday managed to get this installed on our now primary Windows machine which happens to be a high end notebook with a quad core processor and 8GB of RAM. We have done quite a lot of testing with various different types of document, ranging from type-written plain paper to newspapers, magazines and other glossy media with various types of fonts and type faces. We've tested the same documents, precisely, using the same scanner on Mac OSX Lion with three different Macintosh OCR utilities, including the Mac version of OmniPage Pro X 16 by Nuance, Inc., AbbYY FineReader Express and VueScan 9.4 64-bit for Mac. I plan to test the Windows version of VueScan later today for absolute thoroughness. In every case, OmniPage 18 Professional for Windows came out bottom of the pile in terms of accuracy, speed of OCR and also output formatting. With OmniPage 18 Professional for Windows, I repeatedly had to correct basic errors using its own dictionary and also manually inserted corrections for words which it simply didn't recognise at all, even on basic type-written documents. The scanner face is clean; I made sure of that by lightly brushing it with mentholated spirits and then with a clean dry cloth. The scanner settings in use were those extracted from the scanner database downloaded by the software from the Nuance online resource. This package cost us in excess of ?260.00 GBP which is just over $300.00 US, way in excess of that in Australian Dollars. In short, I'm shocked at how poor this application seems to be in comparison to those which cost a great deal less. Unless circumstances change when I try another scanner, as I plan too later today, I won't be buying any further upgrades or paid updates for OmniPage 18 Professional. It is currently producing some pretty appalling results in comparison to its cheaper competitors. Now, to be absolutely fair, I am prepared to tweak it, do whatever I possibly can to improve things before I condemn the thing as bad; but initial test results aren't very optimistic. Merry Christmas to everybody in the group. Lynne Lynne From marrie12 at gmail.com Sat Dec 24 12:26:12 2011 From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah Alawami) Date: Sat, 24 Dec 2011 04:26:12 -0800 Subject: OmniPage 18 Professional Windows; [initial impressions] In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Wow I remember in 2002 when i was first learning how to use a computer that I could use that software with my old cano scanner and laptop that ran 256 mb of ran using win xp. I'm surprised the quality would have gone down since the 9 years I used it. Hope this makes sense as I'm running on 0 sleep. Take care and hope someone can help you tweak omni page before it id declared as something to be tossed. Take care all. On Dec 24, 2011, at 4:21 AM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: > Hello everybody > > > Upon its release earlier this year, I bought us a copy of OmniPage Professional 18 for Windows by Nuance, Inc. Due to a lot of combined circumstances which I won't outline, we have only just yesterday managed to get this installed on our now primary Windows machine which happens to be a high end notebook with a quad core processor and 8GB of RAM. > > We have done quite a lot of testing with various different types of document, ranging from type-written plain paper to newspapers, magazines and other glossy media with various types of fonts and type faces. > > We've tested the same documents, precisely, using the same scanner on Mac OSX Lion with three different Macintosh OCR utilities, including the Mac version of OmniPage Pro X 16 by Nuance, Inc., AbbYY FineReader Express and VueScan 9.4 64-bit for Mac. I plan to test the Windows version of VueScan later today for absolute thoroughness. > > In every case, OmniPage 18 Professional for Windows came out bottom of the pile in terms of accuracy, speed of OCR and also output formatting. With OmniPage 18 Professional for Windows, I repeatedly had to correct basic errors using its own dictionary and also manually inserted corrections for words which it simply didn't recognise at all, even on basic type-written documents. > > The scanner face is clean; I made sure of that by lightly brushing it with mentholated spirits and then with a clean dry cloth. The scanner settings in use were those extracted from the scanner database downloaded by the software from the Nuance online resource. > > This package cost us in excess of ?260.00 GBP which is just over $300.00 US, way in excess of that in Australian Dollars. > > In short, I'm shocked at how poor this application seems to be in comparison to those which cost a great deal less. Unless circumstances change when I try another scanner, as I plan too later today, I won't be buying any further upgrades or paid updates for OmniPage 18 Professional. It is currently producing some pretty appalling results in comparison to its cheaper competitors. > > Now, to be absolutely fair, I am prepared to tweak it, do whatever I possibly can to improve things before I condemn the thing as bad; but initial test results aren't very optimistic. > > Merry Christmas to everybody in the group. > > Lynne > > > Lynne > > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- From marrie12 at gmail.com Sat Dec 24 12:28:52 2011 From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah Alawami) Date: Sat, 24 Dec 2011 04:28:52 -0800 Subject: the usability of EPublications and there future? Message-ID: <5C703F5D-9E93-446D-B3F8-8B5C983CB3F3@gmail.com> Hello. I wrote a blog article on my now very tiny blog that might spark some interest. Feel free to comment on there as that's the easiest place to check and it is accessible. I checked. Anyway a friend of mine forwarded me an email that sparked some anger and more disappointment then anything else but for more info about my thoughts of the usuability of EPublications and EBooks in general and where I hope we are not headed go to http://tffp.marrie.org/ramblings. Take care all. From lynne at mac-access.net Sat Dec 24 13:31:37 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Sat, 24 Dec 2011 13:31:37 +0000 Subject: Yamaha Desktop Audio Systems; TSX-130/140/150 [Design Flaw] Message-ID: <46F66999-61FC-4319-9930-E78102FED71D@mac-access.net> Hello everybody Recently, a member of our household bought a Yamaha desktop audio system for my other half. Unfortunately, we are now in a situation where we're without the unit, owing to a design flaw which Yamaha have acknowledged. For whatever reason, the tuner on a very few models is suspect. Typical of our luck, ours is one of those which is affected. We have the TSX-140 which, I'm told, will soon be superseded anyway by the TSX-150. All of these models share a design flaw in the tuner which, in certain circumstances, can cause the tuner to get stuck in tuning mode, affecting both FM and DAB/DAB+. It's as though the unit its receiving no signal; and the only fix for this problem is to return the unit to Yamaha for replacement or repair. Unfortunately, ours went wrong just before the inconvenience which is Christmas. So although we could use is as a CD player and iPod dock, we've been advised not to do so. Another flaw with these machines is that occasionally, the CD motor can stick resulting in stuck or severely scratched CDs. That's what the technical support agent at Yamaha told me on the phone yesterday. Ours hasn't manifested that problem; but we've been told to watch out for it when we get our unit, hopefully, replaced. It's less than a month old; so I would expect them to replace the entire unit. All this is really unfortunate, because in terms of audio output the units are excellent. Each speaker consists of its own tweeter and woofer, built into unique acoustic chambers so as to produce the best possible audio. My one criticism of the TSX range is the cabinet itself. It's made from what looks like a thin chipboard like material. Not anywhere close to, for instance, the old Akkai unit we had back in the 1970s which was built into a solid teak cabinet. It too used unique acoustic chambers for its 4-way dual speaker system. Obviously that unit didn't have the same digital amplification circuitry as the Yamaha does, nor did it have digital radio which didn't even exist in those days. But it did have a very good FM tuner and dual cassette decks. But I'm babbling; let's just hope that next time we don't get one of those defective models. Lynne From djden at thejazzden.org.uk Sat Dec 24 13:46:50 2011 From: djden at thejazzden.org.uk (Thejazzden) Date: Sat, 24 Dec 2011 13:46:50 +0000 Subject: Yamaha Desktop Audio Systems; TSX-130/140/150 [Design Flaw] In-Reply-To: <46F66999-61FC-4319-9930-E78102FED71D@mac-access.net> References: <46F66999-61FC-4319-9930-E78102FED71D@mac-access.net> Message-ID: Lynn, I Would ask for a refund or them to replace with the new model when it comes out if they have acknowledged two faultsz. The one on the Cd is potentially damaging. Dennis. Dennis Freedman The best aromatherapy in the UK - www.e-nat.co.uk Sent from my iPhone On 24 Dec 2011, at 13:31, "Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith" wrote: > Hello everybody > > Recently, a member of our household bought a Yamaha desktop audio system for my other half. Unfortunately, we are now in a situation where we're without the unit, owing to a design flaw which Yamaha have acknowledged. > > For whatever reason, the tuner on a very few models is suspect. Typical of our luck, ours is one of those which is affected. We have the TSX-140 which, I'm told, will soon be superseded anyway by the TSX-150. All of these models share a design flaw in the tuner which, in certain circumstances, can cause the tuner to get stuck in tuning mode, affecting both FM and DAB/DAB+. It's as though the unit its receiving no signal; and the only fix for this problem is to return the unit to Yamaha for replacement or repair. > > Unfortunately, ours went wrong just before the inconvenience which is Christmas. So although we could use is as a CD player and iPod dock, we've been advised not to do so. Another flaw with these machines is that occasionally, the CD motor can stick resulting in stuck or severely scratched CDs. That's what the technical support agent at Yamaha told me on the phone yesterday. Ours hasn't manifested that problem; but we've been told to watch out for it when we get our unit, hopefully, replaced. It's less than a month old; so I would expect them to replace the entire unit. > > All this is really unfortunate, because in terms of audio output the units are excellent. Each speaker consists of its own tweeter and woofer, built into unique acoustic chambers so as to produce the best possible audio. My one criticism of the TSX range is the cabinet itself. It's made from what looks like a thin chipboard like material. Not anywhere close to, for instance, the old Akkai unit we had back in the 1970s which was built into a solid teak cabinet. It too used unique acoustic chambers for its 4-way dual speaker system. Obviously that unit didn't have the same digital amplification circuitry as the Yamaha does, nor did it have digital radio which didn't even exist in those days. But it did have a very good FM tuner and dual cassette decks. But I'm babbling; let's just hope that next time we don't get one of those defective models. > > Lynne > > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- From martin at x.it.okstate.edu Sat Dec 24 15:03:42 2011 From: martin at x.it.okstate.edu (Martin McCormick) Date: Sat, 24 Dec 2011 09:03:42 -0600 Subject: News Radio Message-ID: <201112241503.pBOF3gVY007491@x.it.okstate.edu> Yes. It's a neat sound, but that's all it is today. I can almost bet my next pay check (almost, but not quite) that nobody in the Western world is still using those things any more. I can tell anybody more about them later if you like. Courtney Curran writes: > I think KYW has one too. I kind of like the teletype machine. It gives > the news kind of a retro feel. From grtdane at internode.on.net Sat Dec 24 17:45:07 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Sun, 25 Dec 2011 04:45:07 +1100 Subject: OmniPage 18 Professional Windows; [initial impressions] In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <81A3417B-331C-4ECB-B59B-DB00617548D6@internode.on.net> I'm not at all surprised at your findings. I've been using Read Iris Pro for Windows here, its the best scanning/OCR solution I've seen and I paid ?40.00 for it. Now I'm not trying to be too critical here but let's face it, Omnipage Pro is not designed for a user without sight thus Omnipage relies on someone with vision to correct "Teach" the software about any mistakes in scanning and this is where software such as K1000 and Open Book come into their own, they're designed for the person without sight and thus they have tools which correct the sort of mistakes you're talking about, optimise recognition and scanning etc. Finally OCR is one of those things which has too many variants for us to make claims about this or that being product being better, you'd be surprised at the results another scanner may give you, another computer may give you etc. On 24/12/2011, at 11:21 PM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: > Hello everybody > > > Upon its release earlier this year, I bought us a copy of OmniPage Professional 18 for Windows by Nuance, Inc. Due to a lot of combined circumstances which I won't outline, we have only just yesterday managed to get this installed on our now primary Windows machine which happens to be a high end notebook with a quad core processor and 8GB of RAM. > > We have done quite a lot of testing with various different types of document, ranging from type-written plain paper to newspapers, magazines and other glossy media with various types of fonts and type faces. > > We've tested the same documents, precisely, using the same scanner on Mac OSX Lion with three different Macintosh OCR utilities, including the Mac version of OmniPage Pro X 16 by Nuance, Inc., AbbYY FineReader Express and VueScan 9.4 64-bit for Mac. I plan to test the Windows version of VueScan later today for absolute thoroughness. > > In every case, OmniPage 18 Professional for Windows came out bottom of the pile in terms of accuracy, speed of OCR and also output formatting. With OmniPage 18 Professional for Windows, I repeatedly had to correct basic errors using its own dictionary and also manually inserted corrections for words which it simply didn't recognise at all, even on basic type-written documents. > > The scanner face is clean; I made sure of that by lightly brushing it with mentholated spirits and then with a clean dry cloth. The scanner settings in use were those extracted from the scanner database downloaded by the software from the Nuance online resource. > > This package cost us in excess of ?260.00 GBP which is just over $300.00 US, way in excess of that in Australian Dollars. > > In short, I'm shocked at how poor this application seems to be in comparison to those which cost a great deal less. Unless circumstances change when I try another scanner, as I plan too later today, I won't be buying any further upgrades or paid updates for OmniPage 18 Professional. It is currently producing some pretty appalling results in comparison to its cheaper competitors. > > Now, to be absolutely fair, I am prepared to tweak it, do whatever I possibly can to improve things before I condemn the thing as bad; but initial test results aren't very optimistic. > > Merry Christmas to everybody in the group. > > Lynne > > > Lynne > > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- From grtdane at internode.on.net Sat Dec 24 17:51:09 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Sun, 25 Dec 2011 04:51:09 +1100 Subject: Yamaha Desktop Audio Systems; TSX-130/140/150 [Design Flaw] In-Reply-To: <46F66999-61FC-4319-9930-E78102FED71D@mac-access.net> References: <46F66999-61FC-4319-9930-E78102FED71D@mac-access.net> Message-ID: <3F09389F-0E96-45FC-B7CC-E5B8713E1B49@internode.on.net> Yep that's very unfortunate. Fortunately my Yamaha TSX-130 has been working flawlessly for 15 months or so now. The other nice thing is that I was able to source my machine locally so if anything had gone wrong then getting a replacement or the machine looked at wasn't going to be too much of a problem, I don't want to knock Amazon or online buying but this does show a glaring problem in the Online Shopping thing . Anyway I hope you get satisfaction one way or the other and let me assure you you're not the only one to buy defective products, my Zoom H1 for example has a well-known fault, the battery will drain when the unit is turned off, its something to do with faulty capacitors but as I never leave batteries in the Zoom for a prolonged period of time anyway and as I use Rechargeable batteries then this problem doesn't inconvenience me all that much. On 25/12/2011, at 12:31 AM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: > Hello everybody > > Recently, a member of our household bought a Yamaha desktop audio system for my other half. Unfortunately, we are now in a situation where we're without the unit, owing to a design flaw which Yamaha have acknowledged. > > For whatever reason, the tuner on a very few models is suspect. Typical of our luck, ours is one of those which is affected. We have the TSX-140 which, I'm told, will soon be superseded anyway by the TSX-150. All of these models share a design flaw in the tuner which, in certain circumstances, can cause the tuner to get stuck in tuning mode, affecting both FM and DAB/DAB+. It's as though the unit its receiving no signal; and the only fix for this problem is to return the unit to Yamaha for replacement or repair. > > Unfortunately, ours went wrong just before the inconvenience which is Christmas. So although we could use is as a CD player and iPod dock, we've been advised not to do so. Another flaw with these machines is that occasionally, the CD motor can stick resulting in stuck or severely scratched CDs. That's what the technical support agent at Yamaha told me on the phone yesterday. Ours hasn't manifested that problem; but we've been told to watch out for it when we get our unit, hopefully, replaced. It's less than a month old; so I would expect them to replace the entire unit. > > All this is really unfortunate, because in terms of audio output the units are excellent. Each speaker consists of its own tweeter and woofer, built into unique acoustic chambers so as to produce the best possible audio. My one criticism of the TSX range is the cabinet itself. It's made from what looks like a thin chipboard like material. Not anywhere close to, for instance, the old Akkai unit we had back in the 1970s which was built into a solid teak cabinet. It too used unique acoustic chambers for its 4-way dual speaker system. Obviously that unit didn't have the same digital amplification circuitry as the Yamaha does, nor did it have digital radio which didn't even exist in those days. But it did have a very good FM tuner and dual cassette decks. But I'm babbling; let's just hope that next time we don't get one of those defective models. > > Lynne > > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- From lynne at mac-access.net Sat Dec 24 18:29:31 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Sat, 24 Dec 2011 18:29:31 +0000 Subject: Mail Clients In-Reply-To: References: <34C6E92C-EFBB-4F69-80BE-1210AADB5BFC@mac-access.net> <785B937A-7CBE-4FE1-98E6-ECB0372B3BDA@internode.on.net> Message-ID: <31CA5661-1A9B-4848-8C9E-861D1FE49826@mac-access.net> Hello Dane Thank you for this; it explains a great deal. OK, I have downloaded Thunderbird and will give it a try with NVDA. I just wanted Gordon to get the best there was available, that was all. I don't doubt anybody's word; I am grateful for the input. Lynne On 19 Dec 2011, at 20:39, Dane Trethowan wrote: You don't know what works these days! well if it comes to that than neither do we , we were given an assurance that the problems with Thunderbird and Window-Eyes would be fixed in the latest 7.5.2 release when actually things have become worse. WE and GW Micro are a laughing stock for this now, everyone else in the Screen Reader business has Thunderbird and browser issues sorted, all except GW Micro and their flagship Window-Eyes Screen reader. One GW-Info list member pretty much summed it up in my view when he said words to the effect that Window-Eyes has never been the same since scripts and apps were introduced. From grtdane at internode.on.net Sat Dec 24 18:30:13 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Sun, 25 Dec 2011 05:30:13 +1100 Subject: Happy Holidays! Message-ID: <47188CDC-D85F-44EB-AA79-231CBBBF0F89@internode.on.net> Hello to my friends in the states and I trust you're enjoying your holiday season, not quite? Well perhaps the following may cheer you even further. Just talking to a friend of mine in Florida who surely has purchased the bargain of the season - or one of them anyway - and no! I'm not talking about them Michael Jordan sneakers either . He purchased a HTc Android Phone for $20.00 which also included the Code Factory's suite of apps to make the phone accessible so if that ain't a bargain then I don't know what is. I think Gary said he bought the phone through AT&T so people may wish to check this. The HTC phone not only has a touch screen but a built-in qwerty keyboard, sounds nice! Anyway I've asked Gary if he wouldn't mind keeping me informed of his progress with this phone, his likes and dislikes regarding the phone and its software etc. I have to remind myself that my contract with my provider only has 9 months to run and I'll be looking for a new device myself, iPhone is easy enough to get but I think we're in for bing things as far as accessibility goes when it comes to Smart Phones. From grtdane at internode.on.net Sat Dec 24 18:32:27 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Sun, 25 Dec 2011 05:32:27 +1100 Subject: Mail Clients In-Reply-To: <31CA5661-1A9B-4848-8C9E-861D1FE49826@mac-access.net> References: <34C6E92C-EFBB-4F69-80BE-1210AADB5BFC@mac-access.net> <785B937A-7CBE-4FE1-98E6-ECB0372B3BDA@internode.on.net> <31CA5661-1A9B-4848-8C9E-861D1FE49826@mac-access.net> Message-ID: I'm looking at the original message I wrote and I'm sorry to everyone if I sound negative but I'm only summing up the terrible situation when it comes to Window-Eyes, Thunderbird and Browse mode, in short WE is Screwed up completely at the moment. On 25/12/2011, at 5:29 AM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: > Hello Dane > > Thank you for this; it explains a great deal. OK, I have downloaded Thunderbird and will give it a try with NVDA. I just wanted Gordon to get the best there was available, that was all. I don't doubt anybody's word; I am grateful for the input. > > Lynne > > On 19 Dec 2011, at 20:39, Dane Trethowan wrote: > > You don't know what works these days! well if it comes to that than neither do we , we were given an assurance that the problems with Thunderbird and Window-Eyes would be fixed in the latest 7.5.2 release when actually things have become worse. > > WE and GW Micro are a laughing stock for this now, everyone else in the Screen Reader business has Thunderbird and browser issues sorted, all except GW Micro and their flagship Window-Eyes Screen reader. > > One GW-Info list member pretty much summed it up in my view when he said words to the effect that Window-Eyes has never been the same since scripts and apps were introduced. > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- From lynne at mac-access.net Sat Dec 24 18:38:01 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Sat, 24 Dec 2011 18:38:01 +0000 Subject: Yamaha Desktop Audio Systems; TSX-130/140/150 [Design Flaw] In-Reply-To: References: <46F66999-61FC-4319-9930-E78102FED71D@mac-access.net> Message-ID: <63854CBE-E0B2-4452-8A0E-2D3B691D551A@mac-access.net> Hello Dennis The latest on this is that the fault was caused by a batch of components used to manufacture a large number of UK models. These are supposedly being withdrawn and replaced when faults occur without question. We love the unit as a whole; but let's see how the next one goes. Lynne On 24 Dec 2011, at 13:46, Thejazzden wrote: Lynn, I Would ask for a refund or them to replace with the new model when it comes out if they have acknowledged two faultsz. The one on the Cd is potentially damaging. Dennis. Dennis Freedman The best aromatherapy in the UK - www.e-nat.co.uk Sent from my iPhone On 24 Dec 2011, at 13:31, "Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith" wrote: > Hello everybody > > Recently, a member of our household bought a Yamaha desktop audio system for my other half. Unfortunately, we are now in a situation where we're without the unit, owing to a design flaw which Yamaha have acknowledged. > > For whatever reason, the tuner on a very few models is suspect. Typical of our luck, ours is one of those which is affected. We have the TSX-140 which, I'm told, will soon be superseded anyway by the TSX-150. All of these models share a design flaw in the tuner which, in certain circumstances, can cause the tuner to get stuck in tuning mode, affecting both FM and DAB/DAB+. It's as though the unit its receiving no signal; and the only fix for this problem is to return the unit to Yamaha for replacement or repair. > > Unfortunately, ours went wrong just before the inconvenience which is Christmas. So although we could use is as a CD player and iPod dock, we've been advised not to do so. Another flaw with these machines is that occasionally, the CD motor can stick resulting in stuck or severely scratched CDs. That's what the technical support agent at Yamaha told me on the phone yesterday. Ours hasn't manifested that problem; but we've been told to watch out for it when we get our unit, hopefully, replaced. It's less than a month old; so I would expect them to replace the entire unit. > > All this is really unfortunate, because in terms of audio output the units are excellent. Each speaker consists of its own tweeter and woofer, built into unique acoustic chambers so as to produce the best possible audio. My one criticism of the TSX range is the cabinet itself. It's made from what looks like a thin chipboard like material. Not anywhere close to, for instance, the old Akkai unit we had back in the 1970s which was built into a solid teak cabinet. It too used unique acoustic chambers for its 4-way dual speaker system. Obviously that unit didn't have the same digital amplification circuitry as the Yamaha does, nor did it have digital radio which didn't even exist in those days. But it did have a very good FM tuner and dual cassette decks. But I'm babbling; let's just hope that next time we don't get one of those defective models. > > Lynne > > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- ======================================= The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html Or: you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: --------------------------------------- From grtdane at internode.on.net Sat Dec 24 18:38:22 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Sun, 25 Dec 2011 05:38:22 +1100 Subject: Yamaha Desktop Audio Systems; TSX-130/140/150 [Design Flaw] In-Reply-To: <63854CBE-E0B2-4452-8A0E-2D3B691D551A@mac-access.net> References: <46F66999-61FC-4319-9930-E78102FED71D@mac-access.net> <63854CBE-E0B2-4452-8A0E-2D3B691D551A@mac-access.net> Message-ID: Faulty components seem to be an everyday pain these days, quality control ain't what it once was. On 25/12/2011, at 5:38 AM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: > Hello Dennis > > The latest on this is that the fault was caused by a batch of components used to manufacture a large number of UK models. These are supposedly being withdrawn and replaced when faults occur without question. > > We love the unit as a whole; but let's see how the next one goes. > > Lynne > > > On 24 Dec 2011, at 13:46, Thejazzden wrote: > > Lynn, I Would ask for a refund or them to replace with the new model when it comes out if they have acknowledged two faultsz. The one on the Cd is potentially damaging. > Dennis. > > Dennis Freedman > The best aromatherapy in the UK - www.e-nat.co.uk > Sent from my iPhone > > > On 24 Dec 2011, at 13:31, "Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith" wrote: > >> Hello everybody >> >> Recently, a member of our household bought a Yamaha desktop audio system for my other half. Unfortunately, we are now in a situation where we're without the unit, owing to a design flaw which Yamaha have acknowledged. >> >> For whatever reason, the tuner on a very few models is suspect. Typical of our luck, ours is one of those which is affected. We have the TSX-140 which, I'm told, will soon be superseded anyway by the TSX-150. All of these models share a design flaw in the tuner which, in certain circumstances, can cause the tuner to get stuck in tuning mode, affecting both FM and DAB/DAB+. It's as though the unit its receiving no signal; and the only fix for this problem is to return the unit to Yamaha for replacement or repair. >> >> Unfortunately, ours went wrong just before the inconvenience which is Christmas. So although we could use is as a CD player and iPod dock, we've been advised not to do so. Another flaw with these machines is that occasionally, the CD motor can stick resulting in stuck or severely scratched CDs. That's what the technical support agent at Yamaha told me on the phone yesterday. Ours hasn't manifested that problem; but we've been told to watch out for it when we get our unit, hopefully, replaced. It's less than a month old; so I would expect them to replace the entire unit. >> >> All this is really unfortunate, because in terms of audio output the units are excellent. Each speaker consists of its own tweeter and woofer, built into unique acoustic chambers so as to produce the best possible audio. My one criticism of the TSX range is the cabinet itself. It's made from what looks like a thin chipboard like material. Not anywhere close to, for instance, the old Akkai unit we had back in the 1970s which was built into a solid teak cabinet. It too used unique acoustic chambers for its 4-way dual speaker system. Obviously that unit didn't have the same digital amplification circuitry as the Yamaha does, nor did it have digital radio which didn't even exist in those days. But it did have a very good FM tuner and dual cassette decks. But I'm babbling; let's just hope that next time we don't get one of those defective models. >> >> Lynne >> >> >> >> ======================================= >> >> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free >> >> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat >> >> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: >> >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html >> >> Or: >> >> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: >> >> >> --------------------------------------- > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- From lynne at mac-access.net Sat Dec 24 19:11:12 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Sat, 24 Dec 2011 19:11:12 +0000 Subject: Yamaha Desktop Audio Systems; TSX-130/140/150 [Design Flaw] In-Reply-To: References: <46F66999-61FC-4319-9930-E78102FED71D@mac-access.net> <63854CBE-E0B2-4452-8A0E-2D3B691D551A@mac-access.net> Message-ID: <6CB47EBA-3953-427A-B930-B6D851D5BD54@mac-access.net> It isn't just faulty components in this case; it's a design flaw. Lynne On 24 Dec 2011, at 18:38, Dane Trethowan wrote: Faulty components seem to be an everyday pain these days, quality control ain't what it once was. From lynne at mac-access.net Sat Dec 24 19:13:33 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Sat, 24 Dec 2011 19:13:33 +0000 Subject: Mail Clients In-Reply-To: References: <34C6E92C-EFBB-4F69-80BE-1210AADB5BFC@mac-access.net> <785B937A-7CBE-4FE1-98E6-ECB0372B3BDA@internode.on.net> <31CA5661-1A9B-4848-8C9E-861D1FE49826@mac-access.net> Message-ID: I'll be trying this programme with NVDA and WE soon; mostly NVDA Actually we've had enough of WE as a whole. $175 for an upgrade is nothing short of scandalous. Lynne On 24 Dec 2011, at 18:32, Dane Trethowan wrote: I'm looking at the original message I wrote and I'm sorry to everyone if I sound negative but I'm only summing up the terrible situation when it comes to Window-Eyes, Thunderbird and Browse mode, in short WE is Screwed up completely at the moment. From grtdane at internode.on.net Sat Dec 24 19:14:38 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane trethowan) Date: Sun, 25 Dec 2011 06:14:38 +1100 Subject: Mail Clients In-Reply-To: References: <34C6E92C-EFBB-4F69-80BE-1210AADB5BFC@mac-access.net> <785B937A-7CBE-4FE1-98E6-ECB0372B3BDA@internode.on.net> <31CA5661-1A9B-4848-8C9E-861D1FE49826@mac-access.net> Message-ID: <4EF6249E.2020604@internode.on.net> pardon me for saying so but you paid $175.00 for a "Step Backwards" rather than an upgrade. On 25/12/2011 6:13 AM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: > I'll be trying this programme with NVDA and WE soon; mostly NVDA Actually we've had enough of WE as a whole. $175 for an upgrade is nothing short of scandalous. > > Lynne > > On 24 Dec 2011, at 18:32, Dane Trethowan wrote: > > I'm looking at the original message I wrote and I'm sorry to everyone if I sound negative but I'm only summing up the terrible situation when it comes to Window-Eyes, Thunderbird and Browse mode, in short WE is Screwed up completely at the moment. > > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- -- sent from my HP Powerhouse Notebook. From martin at x.it.okstate.edu Sat Dec 24 19:39:08 2011 From: martin at x.it.okstate.edu (Martin McCormick) Date: Sat, 24 Dec 2011 13:39:08 -0600 Subject: Quality Control Message-ID: <201112241939.pBOJd8oR008634@x.it.okstate.edu> Dane Trethowan writes: > Faulty components seem to be an everyday pain these days, quality control > ain't what it once was. It never was. This is called the old oaken bucket syndrome. One day, you turn on the tap and the water doesn't come out at all or there is something wrong with it such as rust in the line or a bad taste. The old-timers say that "When I was a boy, we had an old oaken bucket we used to dip water out of the well and it was always clear, cold and good." An old-timer with a better memory might say that he remembers that the bucket got dried out and leaked and it was heavy and sometimes the well went dry, but we tend to remember the good things since that keeps us all from going nuts as we go through life. I remember hearing stories in the news about appliances that caught fire or shocked people because of either bad design or defective components. One television model sold in England back in the sixties or seventies had a component in its circuitry that would sometimes fail. People would smell an odd odor and the color or is that colour would go wrong and they would make it a point to call a repair shop soon but they should have also thought to call the fire department. That faulty part was made of something that ignited but smoldered like a cigarette until it ignited flammable substances near by. The owners of the set might have turned it off and disconnected it when it failed, but hours later, the set might go up in flames anyway. In my opinion, the trouble now is that when something goes wrong, manufacturing and quality control is so spread out among several continents that everybody points fingers at everybody else and the end user has to be without the services of the device while the suits all sit around and absolve themselves of any responsibility while blaming everybody else in the supply chain which, of course, they can not control, but you need to call X Y or Z and maybe they can help you. The best companies take full responsibility for the end product and sort out all the squabbling later. I remember an instance when I worked as a service technician in the eighties in which we repaired a VCR for a customer. The VCR had a defective break system which caused tape to snarl in the cassette which damaged the tape. The customer had rented movies which were then ruined by the faulty machine and had to be replaced by the customer. We did our best to fix the machine but it started doing the same thing again in a few weeks and eating more tapes. We called the company that sold the machines in the United States and they quickly called us back and started out by saying something like, "We are going to make your day." Apparently, they knew about the problem and could not fix it either. They had us send the machine in. They payed the customer for the ruined movies and sent him a brand new machine that did not have a taste for tape. It is that sort of attitude we don't see much these days. Technology is generally more robust but when something goes wrong, I think there are more businesses that couldn't car less and that's what is different. Have a merry Christmas, happey New Year and be safe, everyone. From tsiegel at softcon.com Sat Dec 24 19:41:16 2011 From: tsiegel at softcon.com (Travis Siegel) Date: Sat, 24 Dec 2011 14:41:16 -0500 Subject: an html question In-Reply-To: <5E4B723C-8F1A-456C-998E-C66D494A4D66@gmail.com> References: <5E4B723C-8F1A-456C-998E-C66D494A4D66@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4E39FF65-1CEA-4BF3-9561-A5D94543E17B@softcon.com> I'm guessing you're stuck with it. Just like vo says header level 1, or header level 2 when you use the

and

tags, it's built-in, so your out of luck. I don't bother with blockquotes, I just separate the quotes with

tags, then quote them myself using standard double quote marks. but even so, hearing blockquote wouldn't bother me anyhow, I'm used to such nonsense now. From tsiegel at softcon.com Sat Dec 24 19:43:22 2011 From: tsiegel at softcon.com (Travis Siegel) Date: Sat, 24 Dec 2011 14:43:22 -0500 Subject: News Radio In-Reply-To: <3FCEEE47-DD79-47D0-9995-7A76E331A65B@internode.on.net> References: <3FCEEE47-DD79-47D0-9995-7A76E331A65B@internode.on.net> Message-ID: <977D917E-2D6B-4C49-85CC-E6B4720746DB@softcon.com> KYW is an AM newsradio station based in Philadelphia, though I don't know if they have an internet feed anywhere. I'm not in that area anymore (haven't been in many years) but I'd wager they're still around. Fairly decent station for news, it's all news all the time. hth. From tsiegel at softcon.com Sat Dec 24 19:45:05 2011 From: tsiegel at softcon.com (Travis Siegel) Date: Sat, 24 Dec 2011 14:45:05 -0500 Subject: News Radio In-Reply-To: <93034213-FA5F-4C82-AFFD-D9AC11648BC9@gmail.com> References: <3FCEEE47-DD79-47D0-9995-7A76E331A65B@internode.on.net> <93034213-FA5F-4C82-AFFD-D9AC11648BC9@gmail.com> Message-ID: Ok, never mind, KYW was already mentioned. From grtdane at internode.on.net Sat Dec 24 19:45:53 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane trethowan) Date: Sun, 25 Dec 2011 06:45:53 +1100 Subject: Quality Control In-Reply-To: <201112241939.pBOJd8oR008634@x.it.okstate.edu> References: <201112241939.pBOJd8oR008634@x.it.okstate.edu> Message-ID: <4EF62BF1.1010200@internode.on.net> So given what you've written then perhaps - even though I don't doubt Lynne's word - there may be other explanations for the problems Lynne is having with her Desktop audio system? Must say, I wouldn't at all be surprised. On 25/12/2011 6:39 AM, Martin McCormick wrote: > Dane Trethowan writes: >> Faulty components seem to be an everyday pain these days, quality control >> ain't what it once was. > It never was. This is called the old oaken bucket > syndrome. One day, you turn on the tap and the water doesn't come > out at all or there is something wrong with it such as rust in > the line or a bad taste. > > The old-timers say that "When I was a boy, we had an old > oaken bucket we used to dip water out of the well and it was > always clear, cold and good." An old-timer with a better memory > might say that he remembers that the bucket got dried out and > leaked and it was heavy and sometimes the well went dry, but we > tend to remember the good things since that keeps us all from > going nuts as we go through life. > > I remember hearing stories in the news about appliances > that caught fire or shocked people because of either bad design > or defective components. One television model sold in England > back in the sixties or seventies had a component in its > circuitry that would sometimes fail. People would smell an odd > odor and the color or is that colour would go wrong and they > would make it a point to call a repair shop soon but they should > have also thought to call the fire department. That faulty part > was made of something that ignited but smoldered like a > cigarette until it ignited flammable substances near by. > > The owners of the set might have turned it off and > disconnected it when it failed, but hours later, the set might > go up in flames anyway. > > In my opinion, the trouble now is that when something > goes wrong, manufacturing and quality control is so spread out > among several continents that everybody points fingers at > everybody else and the end user has to be without the services > of the device while the suits all sit around and absolve > themselves of any responsibility while blaming everybody else in > the supply chain which, of course, they can not control, but you > need to call X Y or Z and maybe they can help you. > > The best companies take full responsibility for the end > product and sort out all the squabbling later. > > I remember an instance when I worked as a service > technician in the eighties in which we repaired a VCR for a > customer. The VCR had a defective break system which caused tape > to snarl in the cassette which damaged the tape. The customer > had rented movies which were then ruined by the faulty machine > and had to be replaced by the customer. > > We did our best to fix the machine but it started doing > the same thing again in a few weeks and eating more tapes. > > We called the company that sold the machines in the > United States and they quickly called us back and started out by > saying something like, > > "We are going to make your day." Apparently, they knew about the > problem and could not fix it either. They had us send the > machine in. They payed the customer for the ruined movies and > sent him a brand new machine that did not have a taste for tape. > > It is that sort of attitude we don't see much these > days. Technology is generally more robust but when something > goes wrong, I think there are more businesses that couldn't car > less and that's what is different. > > Have a merry Christmas, happey New Year and be safe, > everyone. > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- -- sent from my HP Powerhouse Notebook. From marrie12 at gmail.com Sat Dec 24 21:26:41 2011 From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah Alawami) Date: Sat, 24 Dec 2011 13:26:41 -0800 Subject: an html question In-Reply-To: <4E39FF65-1CEA-4BF3-9561-A5D94543E17B@softcon.com> References: <5E4B723C-8F1A-456C-998E-C66D494A4D66@gmail.com> <4E39FF65-1CEA-4BF3-9561-A5D94543E17B@softcon.com> Message-ID: <2DDA2BB3-B4F4-4692-AFA5-2CE4B2C6FC9B@gmail.com> lol. I didn't test it out on windows yet but I think nvda will say bloc quote level 1 if I'm not mistaken. I'm not going to pos the html code as I don't want to spoil it but if I can't do anything to fix it I probably should not have used it. I was trying to make it grammatically correct as a long quote like that should be double spaced and on a new paragraph or something like that lol! Or in my case about 4. Ah well. Can you maybe take a look at http://tffp.marrie.org/ramblings and I think like about 3 paragraphs down where the email starts? and see if I could have some something differently? I still have a copy I wrote in my application so fixing it will not be an issue. I will not use CSS though as I am not familiar with the code therein. lol! thanks for the advice. I think I might try that although it would not be correct the way I learned it in english class lol! Take care. and happy holidays. Sarah Alawami If you need an edit done on a small project go to http://music.marrie.org/master for more info. If you need to contact me my info is below. MSN and AIM: marrie12 at gmail.com website: http://music.marrie.org Podcast: http://tffp.marrie.org/podcast youtube: http://youtube.com/marrie125 On Dec 24, 2011, at 11:41 AM, Travis Siegel wrote: > I'm guessing you're stuck with it. Just like vo says header level 1, or header level 2 when you use the

and

tags, it's built-in, so your out of luck. > I don't bother with blockquotes, I just separate the quotes with

tags, then quote them myself using standard double quote marks. but even so, hearing blockquote wouldn't bother me anyhow, I'm used to such nonsense now. > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- From lynne at mac-access.net Sun Dec 25 12:49:03 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Sun, 25 Dec 2011 12:49:03 +0000 Subject: Window-Eyes In-Reply-To: <4EF6249E.2020604@internode.on.net> References: <34C6E92C-EFBB-4F69-80BE-1210AADB5BFC@mac-access.net> <785B937A-7CBE-4FE1-98E6-ECB0372B3BDA@internode.on.net> <31CA5661-1A9B-4848-8C9E-861D1FE49826@mac-access.net> <4EF6249E.2020604@internode.on.net> Message-ID: <961E6202-CF5E-4FFA-8062-BD6FB739838A@mac-access.net> Hello Dane Not quite. The upgrade was from version 7.0 to 7.5 but the updates from 7.5.0 through 7.5.2 have been free. So your information is slightly erroneous there. That said, I don't dispute that 7.5.1 and later have been riddled with problems. GW micro is clearly now being sucked into the Freedom Scientific competition. They must get things out by deadline date. Gordon tells me that there never used to be deadlines in the days when the software was good. But now that GW has expanded to the point where it's no longer a user-orientated company, WE has gone the same way as JFW. No doubt Systemware will go the same way. Hopefully NVDA might not; but if the rumours are true, it could be taken away from the accessibility market place. Lynne From martin at x.it.okstate.edu Sun Dec 25 13:05:23 2011 From: martin at x.it.okstate.edu (Martin McCormick) Date: Sun, 25 Dec 2011 07:05:23 -0600 Subject: Quality Control Message-ID: <201112251305.pBPD5Nun011847@x.it.okstate.edu> Dane trethowan writes: > So given what you've written then perhaps - even though I don't doubt > Lynne's word - there may be other explanations for the problems Lynne is > having with her Desktop audio system? It sounds like a quality control issue to me and it appears that the company is aware of the problems she is having as others report the same thing, at least with the tuner. The question is, how long and how much trouble does the end user have to go to before they get either a full refund or a working unit that has not got the problems? I was only saying that quality control is not a new issue and things are basically built better today, but when something does go wrong, getting it put right is more of a hassle than it used to be or should be. Dealing with big business is too often like dealing with recalcitrant government agencies. Monty Python has several episodes of people dealing with businesses or government personnel that get the tone of the futility of it all perfectly. From lynne at mac-access.net Sun Dec 25 15:38:16 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Sun, 25 Dec 2011 15:38:16 +0000 Subject: Quality Control In-Reply-To: <201112251305.pBPD5Nun011847@x.it.okstate.edu> References: <201112251305.pBPD5Nun011847@x.it.okstate.edu> Message-ID: <703CEE11-3DC9-4B93-BA8C-D1342BCFBDB2@mac-access.net> Hello Dane I think you're missing the point. I never said it was quality control, it is a design flaw as I said in my first post. A design flaw is very different to quality control. The design flaw is an issue whereby some models, (they've only seen it in UK models so far), develop a fault on the tuner's phase lock loop circuitry (whatever that is), and the PLL cannot synchronise. Gordon is telling me that the PLL is an IC which stabilises the base frequency of the tuner so that the multipliers function properly. Well I don't pretend to understand, but there you go. Apparently there is an intermittent design flaw somewhere in that lot which is causing the tuners to basically go AWOL and refuse to tune. It isn't anything remotely to do with quality control, whatever name you want to give it, (Or rather, Martin does). :) Merry Christmas all Lynne On 25 Dec 2011, at 13:05, Martin McCormick wrote: I was only saying that quality control is not a new issue and things are basically built better today, but when something does go wrong, getting it put right is more of a hassle than it used to be or should be. Dealing with big business is too often like dealing with recalcitrant government agencies. Monty Python has several episodes of people dealing with businesses or government personnel that get the tone of the futility of it all perfectly. ======================================= The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html Or: you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: --------------------------------------- From tsiegel at softcon.com Sun Dec 25 17:20:03 2011 From: tsiegel at softcon.com (Travis Siegel) Date: Sun, 25 Dec 2011 12:20:03 -0500 Subject: Window-Eyes In-Reply-To: <961E6202-CF5E-4FFA-8062-BD6FB739838A@mac-access.net> References: <34C6E92C-EFBB-4F69-80BE-1210AADB5BFC@mac-access.net> <785B937A-7CBE-4FE1-98E6-ECB0372B3BDA@internode.on.net> <31CA5661-1A9B-4848-8C9E-861D1FE49826@mac-access.net> <4EF6249E.2020604@internode.on.net> <961E6202-CF5E-4FFA-8062-BD6FB739838A@mac-access.net> Message-ID: <90F2B80E-4FDE-49FE-A310-FF3DA966CCA7@softcon.com> nvda is open source, it can't be taken away from the market, unless they somehow withdraw every single copy of the source they ever distributed. Not possible. And, even if they do, there's nothing stopping someone else from forking the source, and starting another version. No worries on that front. From grtdane at internode.on.net Sun Dec 25 17:40:04 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2011 04:40:04 +1100 Subject: Window-Eyes In-Reply-To: <961E6202-CF5E-4FFA-8062-BD6FB739838A@mac-access.net> References: <34C6E92C-EFBB-4F69-80BE-1210AADB5BFC@mac-access.net> <785B937A-7CBE-4FE1-98E6-ECB0372B3BDA@internode.on.net> <31CA5661-1A9B-4848-8C9E-861D1FE49826@mac-access.net> <4EF6249E.2020604@internode.on.net> <961E6202-CF5E-4FFA-8062-BD6FB739838A@mac-access.net> Message-ID: Well I thought I'd never say this in my life but I'm quite impressed with JFW in a lot of ways, I've been using a demo version on one of the computers here. Yep, certainly an over priced product and yep, tech support isn't good however JFW does work! as it claims to in all the testing I've done. JFW'S "Browse Mode" is far better than the one provided to users of Window-Eyes without a doubt and that's a major advantage of a good screen reading package given that so much of most people's time with a computer is spent on the web. Yep, I reckon the interface of JFW is complex but its getting better, having said that WE is gradually becoming far more complex than it ever has been. On 25/12/2011, at 11:49 PM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: > Hello Dane > > Not quite. The upgrade was from version 7.0 to 7.5 but the updates from 7.5.0 through 7.5.2 have been free. So your information is slightly erroneous there. That said, I don't dispute that 7.5.1 and later have been riddled with problems. GW micro is clearly now being sucked into the Freedom Scientific competition. They must get things out by deadline date. > > Gordon tells me that there never used to be deadlines in the days when the software was good. But now that GW has expanded to the point where it's no longer a user-orientated company, WE has gone the same way as JFW. No doubt Systemware will go the same way. Hopefully NVDA might not; but if the rumours are true, it could be taken away from the accessibility market place. > > Lynne > > > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- From grtdane at internode.on.net Sun Dec 25 17:43:32 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2011 04:43:32 +1100 Subject: Window-Eyes In-Reply-To: <90F2B80E-4FDE-49FE-A310-FF3DA966CCA7@softcon.com> References: <34C6E92C-EFBB-4F69-80BE-1210AADB5BFC@mac-access.net> <785B937A-7CBE-4FE1-98E6-ECB0372B3BDA@internode.on.net> <31CA5661-1A9B-4848-8C9E-861D1FE49826@mac-access.net> <4EF6249E.2020604@internode.on.net> <961E6202-CF5E-4FFA-8062-BD6FB739838A@mac-access.net> <90F2B80E-4FDE-49FE-A310-FF3DA966CCA7@softcon.com> Message-ID: <0AD5AE5E-CD26-45E5-B2C1-CE66ACF348BC@internode.on.net> No way NVDA will be going anywhere any time soon, the only thing which may happen is that the developer may stop developing the software and - as has been suggested below - there's nothing whatever to stop others developing the software. You can see how and what is happening to NVDA, there's no secrets kept from anyone on the NVDA support email list. On 26/12/2011, at 4:20 AM, Travis Siegel wrote: > nvda is open source, it can't be taken away from the market, unless they somehow withdraw every single copy of the source they ever distributed. Not possible. > And, even if they do, there's nothing stopping someone else from forking the source, and starting another version. > No worries on that front. > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- From grtdane at internode.on.net Sun Dec 25 18:06:42 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2011 05:06:42 +1100 Subject: A Very Happy Bose Christmas Message-ID: <10F9F955-5605-40E1-A387-4FD0CD5F7BB4@internode.on.net> Hi Folks! I trust you're all having a Happy Christmas, most of you are still enjoying the day whereas we in Australia are readying ourselves for the great day which is Boxing day. I hope Santa, brought you everything you asked for as he did in my case, he brought me a Bose Wave 2 Radio which I'd like to review below. I've been wanting one of these things for the last 16 years but every time I've planned to buy one the price has shot up so my joy was unmistakable yesterday when I unwrapped the box and then opened it to reveal The Bose Wave 2 Radio. I think it worth mentioning the box and packaging before I talk about what the radio has to offer. Initial impressions of the box lead me to believe that perhaps 2 people were going to be needed to unpack the radio as the box is huge! compared to the actual radio itself, no amount of packing and other stuff inside. The radio is clearly a world wide model as connecting cords are supplied for various countries including the U.S., England etc so that goes part of the way to explain the large box. A patch cord is supplied to enable the radio to be connected to your Hifi system or whatever. A manual which looks utterly superb sitting on a coffee table is part of the package though I suspect that its size is more to do with the fact that the manual is in multiple languages. Then there's the card type remote controller which in itself looks elligant sitting on a bedside table or whatever next to the radio. Now to the radio itself and here's the phrase you'll utter as I did, "Its small!" and that it is exactly, quite a bit smaller than the Yamaha desktop Audio systems we've been discussing over the last few weeks. The second thing which is immediately apparent is the total lack of controls, knobs, buttons, dials or any other function on the front or the top of the radio, on the front is a big display in the middle of 2 rather large speakers, the speakers actually take up most of the area of the front of the system so if you wish to control this system then you must! have the remote control handy. There is a multi pin connector at the back of the radio for connection to other devices so it may be that there is a way of controlling the radio through that somehow. On the back of the radio are 5 sockets, the AC mains connection, the aforementioned multi pin accessaries socket, an external antenna socket, an aux-in socket and a headphones jack. Setting up the radio is easy enough, plug in, turn on, select the band and start scanning for stations. Unfortunately I couldn't do much with the AM broadcast band when I tried out the radio late last night due to the severe Thunderstorm activity we had so I was initially disappointed though by this morning much of the thunderstorm activity had died out so I did manage to get to test the radio on AM after all so I'm very glad I delayed sending this review off. FM sounds absolutely brilliant! I submit that this radio actually sounds a little better than the Yamaha Desktop Audio systems, and its just as rich in sound and probably quite a bit louder! Unless I'm missing something this radio doesn't appear to have a "Seek" function so you must tune up and down the bands manually. Setting presets is easy enough, just tune to the desired station and hold down one of the 6 preset buttons, radio mutes for a second or so and then a beep is heard to confirm to you that the preset is set. To recall a preset you just press the appropriate preset button, the radio has 12 presets, 6 for FM and 6 for AM. Radio tuning on the FM band is done in 50KHZ steps. The radio uses the AC mains lead as an antenna which seems to work quite affectively here and I'm a good way out of the metro area. I was initially somewhat disappointed with the performance of the radio on the AM band but after playing with the radio here for a while I accidentally discovered that this radio is extremely picky about where it is placed. I had the radio placed on the top of my fridge but decided to move it to the kitchen table where I could easily access the thing, I'm tall and can easily reach the top of my fridge but I'd rather sit down and play with a radio thanks than stand up all the time. When I moved the radio from the top of the fridge to the kitchen table the AM band sprang to life and I started receiving stations from over 500 miles away so I can only conclude that the built-in antenna for this radio resides in its bottom somewhere and the metal top of my fridge was shielding it. Not sure of the actual frequency ranges of both bands yet, will have to see if an online manual is available. Will have to set the clock at some stage though I'm told this is easily done. The radio has a dual alarm function. Be warned! when the radio is turned off at the mains and then turned on again the radio tuner resets itself, that is the station you were last listening to is not remembered however the presets seem to remain in tact. From david.mclean at cox.net Sun Dec 25 22:08:11 2011 From: david.mclean at cox.net (David McLean) Date: Sun, 25 Dec 2011 17:08:11 -0500 Subject: A Very Happy Bose Christmas In-Reply-To: <10F9F955-5605-40E1-A387-4FD0CD5F7BB4@internode.on.net> References: <10F9F955-5605-40E1-A387-4FD0CD5F7BB4@internode.on.net> Message-ID: <0310137C-5D2C-4CA0-AE03-536E6B854537@cox.net> One thing to add to this: Your radio should have come with a battery which is installed underneath the unit. This battery acts as a backup for the settings when power goes out or the unit is unplugged. It isn't enough to power the unit but will at least save your settings. Also be careful of the the alarm. If you push it accidentally you might be unpleasantly surprised in the middle of the night! I'd assume the AM band in Australia would be set to tune in 9 kHz increments whereas here in the USA it is 10khz. The FM band here is 87.5 to 107.9mhz. The round connector in the back is used as a wireless connector for the Bose Soundlink if you have one and can also be used for other wireless Bose connection units although I don't recall off hand what they are called. The Soundlink is an interesting addition so you might want to give it a try. On Dec 25, 2011, at 1:06 PM, Dane Trethowan wrote: > Hi Folks! > > I trust you're all having a Happy Christmas, most of you are still enjoying the day whereas we in Australia are readying ourselves for the great day which is Boxing day. > > I hope Santa, brought you everything you asked for as he did in my case, he brought me a Bose Wave 2 Radio which I'd like to review below. > > I've been wanting one of these things for the last 16 years but every time I've planned to buy one the price has shot up so my joy was unmistakable yesterday when I unwrapped the box and then opened it to reveal The Bose Wave 2 Radio. > > I think it worth mentioning the box and packaging before I talk about what the radio has to offer. > > Initial impressions of the box lead me to believe that perhaps 2 people were going to be needed to unpack the radio as the box is huge! compared to the actual radio itself, no amount of packing and other stuff inside. > > The radio is clearly a world wide model as connecting cords are supplied for various countries including the U.S., England etc so that goes part of the way to explain the large box. A patch cord is supplied to enable the radio to be connected to your Hifi system or whatever. A manual which looks utterly superb sitting on a coffee table is part of the package though I suspect that its size is more to do with the fact that the manual is in multiple languages. Then there's the card type remote controller which in itself looks elligant sitting on a bedside table or whatever next to the radio. > > Now to the radio itself and here's the phrase you'll utter as I did, "Its small!" and that it is exactly, quite a bit smaller than the Yamaha desktop Audio systems we've been discussing over the last few weeks. > > The second thing which is immediately apparent is the total lack of controls, knobs, buttons, dials or any other function on the front or the top of the radio, on the front is a big display in the middle of 2 rather large speakers, the speakers actually take up most of the area of the front of the system so if you wish to control this system then you must! have the remote control handy. There is a multi pin connector at the back of the radio for connection to other devices so it may be that there is a way of controlling the radio through that somehow. > > On the back of the radio are 5 sockets, the AC mains connection, the aforementioned multi pin accessaries socket, an external antenna socket, an aux-in socket and a headphones jack. > > Setting up the radio is easy enough, plug in, turn on, select the band and start scanning for stations. > > Unfortunately I couldn't do much with the AM broadcast band when I tried out the radio late last night due to the severe Thunderstorm activity we had so I was initially disappointed though by this morning much of the thunderstorm activity had died out so I did manage to get to test the radio on AM after all so I'm very glad I delayed sending this review off. > > FM sounds absolutely brilliant! I submit that this radio actually sounds a little better than the Yamaha Desktop Audio systems, and its just as rich in sound and probably quite a bit louder! > > Unless I'm missing something this radio doesn't appear to have a "Seek" function so you must tune up and down the bands manually. > > Setting presets is easy enough, just tune to the desired station and hold down one of the 6 preset buttons, radio mutes for a second or so and then a beep is heard to confirm to you that the preset is set. > > To recall a preset you just press the appropriate preset button, the radio has 12 presets, 6 for FM and 6 for AM. > > Radio tuning on the FM band is done in 50KHZ steps. > > The radio uses the AC mains lead as an antenna which seems to work quite affectively here and I'm a good way out of the metro area. > > I was initially somewhat disappointed with the performance of the radio on the AM band but after playing with the radio here for a while I accidentally discovered that this radio is extremely picky about where it is placed. > > I had the radio placed on the top of my fridge but decided to move it to the kitchen table where I could easily access the thing, I'm tall and can easily reach the top of my fridge but I'd rather sit down and play with a radio thanks than stand up all the time. > > When I moved the radio from the top of the fridge to the kitchen table the AM band sprang to life and I started receiving stations from over 500 miles away so I can only conclude that the built-in antenna for this radio resides in its bottom somewhere and the metal top of my fridge was shielding it. > > Not sure of the actual frequency ranges of both bands yet, will have to see if an online manual is available. > > Will have to set the clock at some stage though I'm told this is easily done. > > The radio has a dual alarm function. > > Be warned! when the radio is turned off at the mains and then turned on again the radio tuner resets itself, that is the station you were last listening to is not remembered however the presets seem to remain in tact. > > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- From grtdane at internode.on.net Sun Dec 25 22:30:43 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2011 09:30:43 +1100 Subject: A Very Happy Bose Christmas In-Reply-To: <0310137C-5D2C-4CA0-AE03-536E6B854537@cox.net> References: <10F9F955-5605-40E1-A387-4FD0CD5F7BB4@internode.on.net> <0310137C-5D2C-4CA0-AE03-536E6B854537@cox.net> Message-ID: Thanks for this, have you found a way of using a "Seek" Function for the radio if its at all possible or do you have to tune manually. On 26/12/2011, at 9:08 AM, David McLean wrote: > One thing to add to this: Your radio should have come with a battery which is installed underneath the unit. This battery acts as a backup for the settings when power goes out or the unit is unplugged. It isn't enough to power the unit but will at least save your settings. > Also be careful of the the alarm. If you push it accidentally you might be unpleasantly surprised in the middle of the night! > I'd assume the AM band in Australia would be set to tune in 9 kHz increments whereas here in the USA it is 10khz. > The FM band here is 87.5 to 107.9mhz. > The round connector in the back is used as a wireless connector for the Bose Soundlink if you have one and can also be used for other wireless Bose connection units although I don't recall off hand what they are called. > The Soundlink is an interesting addition so you might want to give it a try. > > On Dec 25, 2011, at 1:06 PM, Dane Trethowan wrote: > >> Hi Folks! >> >> I trust you're all having a Happy Christmas, most of you are still enjoying the day whereas we in Australia are readying ourselves for the great day which is Boxing day. >> >> I hope Santa, brought you everything you asked for as he did in my case, he brought me a Bose Wave 2 Radio which I'd like to review below. >> >> I've been wanting one of these things for the last 16 years but every time I've planned to buy one the price has shot up so my joy was unmistakable yesterday when I unwrapped the box and then opened it to reveal The Bose Wave 2 Radio. >> >> I think it worth mentioning the box and packaging before I talk about what the radio has to offer. >> >> Initial impressions of the box lead me to believe that perhaps 2 people were going to be needed to unpack the radio as the box is huge! compared to the actual radio itself, no amount of packing and other stuff inside. >> >> The radio is clearly a world wide model as connecting cords are supplied for various countries including the U.S., England etc so that goes part of the way to explain the large box. A patch cord is supplied to enable the radio to be connected to your Hifi system or whatever. A manual which looks utterly superb sitting on a coffee table is part of the package though I suspect that its size is more to do with the fact that the manual is in multiple languages. Then there's the card type remote controller which in itself looks elligant sitting on a bedside table or whatever next to the radio. >> >> Now to the radio itself and here's the phrase you'll utter as I did, "Its small!" and that it is exactly, quite a bit smaller than the Yamaha desktop Audio systems we've been discussing over the last few weeks. >> >> The second thing which is immediately apparent is the total lack of controls, knobs, buttons, dials or any other function on the front or the top of the radio, on the front is a big display in the middle of 2 rather large speakers, the speakers actually take up most of the area of the front of the system so if you wish to control this system then you must! have the remote control handy. There is a multi pin connector at the back of the radio for connection to other devices so it may be that there is a way of controlling the radio through that somehow. >> >> On the back of the radio are 5 sockets, the AC mains connection, the aforementioned multi pin accessaries socket, an external antenna socket, an aux-in socket and a headphones jack. >> >> Setting up the radio is easy enough, plug in, turn on, select the band and start scanning for stations. >> >> Unfortunately I couldn't do much with the AM broadcast band when I tried out the radio late last night due to the severe Thunderstorm activity we had so I was initially disappointed though by this morning much of the thunderstorm activity had died out so I did manage to get to test the radio on AM after all so I'm very glad I delayed sending this review off. >> >> FM sounds absolutely brilliant! I submit that this radio actually sounds a little better than the Yamaha Desktop Audio systems, and its just as rich in sound and probably quite a bit louder! >> >> Unless I'm missing something this radio doesn't appear to have a "Seek" function so you must tune up and down the bands manually. >> >> Setting presets is easy enough, just tune to the desired station and hold down one of the 6 preset buttons, radio mutes for a second or so and then a beep is heard to confirm to you that the preset is set. >> >> To recall a preset you just press the appropriate preset button, the radio has 12 presets, 6 for FM and 6 for AM. >> >> Radio tuning on the FM band is done in 50KHZ steps. >> >> The radio uses the AC mains lead as an antenna which seems to work quite affectively here and I'm a good way out of the metro area. >> >> I was initially somewhat disappointed with the performance of the radio on the AM band but after playing with the radio here for a while I accidentally discovered that this radio is extremely picky about where it is placed. >> >> I had the radio placed on the top of my fridge but decided to move it to the kitchen table where I could easily access the thing, I'm tall and can easily reach the top of my fridge but I'd rather sit down and play with a radio thanks than stand up all the time. >> >> When I moved the radio from the top of the fridge to the kitchen table the AM band sprang to life and I started receiving stations from over 500 miles away so I can only conclude that the built-in antenna for this radio resides in its bottom somewhere and the metal top of my fridge was shielding it. >> >> Not sure of the actual frequency ranges of both bands yet, will have to see if an online manual is available. >> >> Will have to set the clock at some stage though I'm told this is easily done. >> >> The radio has a dual alarm function. >> >> Be warned! when the radio is turned off at the mains and then turned on again the radio tuner resets itself, that is the station you were last listening to is not remembered however the presets seem to remain in tact. >> >> >> >> ======================================= >> >> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free >> >> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat >> >> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: >> >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html >> >> Or: >> >> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: >> >> >> --------------------------------------- > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- From david.mclean at cox.net Mon Dec 26 01:46:11 2011 From: david.mclean at cox.net (David McLean) Date: Sun, 25 Dec 2011 20:46:11 -0500 Subject: A Very Happy Bose Christmas In-Reply-To: References: <10F9F955-5605-40E1-A387-4FD0CD5F7BB4@internode.on.net> <0310137C-5D2C-4CA0-AE03-536E6B854537@cox.net> Message-ID: <429EB526-DCE1-4CDC-A1D0-A699AAF774F1@cox.net> Yes. If you press and hold either of the scan buttons for a couple of seconds the unit should scan up or down until it fins a strong station. On Dec 25, 2011, at 5:30 PM, Dane Trethowan wrote: > Thanks for this, have you found a way of using a "Seek" Function for the radio if its at all possible or do you have to tune manually. > > > On 26/12/2011, at 9:08 AM, David McLean wrote: > >> One thing to add to this: Your radio should have come with a battery which is installed underneath the unit. This battery acts as a backup for the settings when power goes out or the unit is unplugged. It isn't enough to power the unit but will at least save your settings. >> Also be careful of the the alarm. If you push it accidentally you might be unpleasantly surprised in the middle of the night! >> I'd assume the AM band in Australia would be set to tune in 9 kHz increments whereas here in the USA it is 10khz. >> The FM band here is 87.5 to 107.9mhz. >> The round connector in the back is used as a wireless connector for the Bose Soundlink if you have one and can also be used for other wireless Bose connection units although I don't recall off hand what they are called. >> The Soundlink is an interesting addition so you might want to give it a try. >> >> On Dec 25, 2011, at 1:06 PM, Dane Trethowan wrote: >> >>> Hi Folks! >>> >>> I trust you're all having a Happy Christmas, most of you are still enjoying the day whereas we in Australia are readying ourselves for the great day which is Boxing day. >>> >>> I hope Santa, brought you everything you asked for as he did in my case, he brought me a Bose Wave 2 Radio which I'd like to review below. >>> >>> I've been wanting one of these things for the last 16 years but every time I've planned to buy one the price has shot up so my joy was unmistakable yesterday when I unwrapped the box and then opened it to reveal The Bose Wave 2 Radio. >>> >>> I think it worth mentioning the box and packaging before I talk about what the radio has to offer. >>> >>> Initial impressions of the box lead me to believe that perhaps 2 people were going to be needed to unpack the radio as the box is huge! compared to the actual radio itself, no amount of packing and other stuff inside. >>> >>> The radio is clearly a world wide model as connecting cords are supplied for various countries including the U.S., England etc so that goes part of the way to explain the large box. A patch cord is supplied to enable the radio to be connected to your Hifi system or whatever. A manual which looks utterly superb sitting on a coffee table is part of the package though I suspect that its size is more to do with the fact that the manual is in multiple languages. Then there's the card type remote controller which in itself looks elligant sitting on a bedside table or whatever next to the radio. >>> >>> Now to the radio itself and here's the phrase you'll utter as I did, "Its small!" and that it is exactly, quite a bit smaller than the Yamaha desktop Audio systems we've been discussing over the last few weeks. >>> >>> The second thing which is immediately apparent is the total lack of controls, knobs, buttons, dials or any other function on the front or the top of the radio, on the front is a big display in the middle of 2 rather large speakers, the speakers actually take up most of the area of the front of the system so if you wish to control this system then you must! have the remote control handy. There is a multi pin connector at the back of the radio for connection to other devices so it may be that there is a way of controlling the radio through that somehow. >>> >>> On the back of the radio are 5 sockets, the AC mains connection, the aforementioned multi pin accessaries socket, an external antenna socket, an aux-in socket and a headphones jack. >>> >>> Setting up the radio is easy enough, plug in, turn on, select the band and start scanning for stations. >>> >>> Unfortunately I couldn't do much with the AM broadcast band when I tried out the radio late last night due to the severe Thunderstorm activity we had so I was initially disappointed though by this morning much of the thunderstorm activity had died out so I did manage to get to test the radio on AM after all so I'm very glad I delayed sending this review off. >>> >>> FM sounds absolutely brilliant! I submit that this radio actually sounds a little better than the Yamaha Desktop Audio systems, and its just as rich in sound and probably quite a bit louder! >>> >>> Unless I'm missing something this radio doesn't appear to have a "Seek" function so you must tune up and down the bands manually. >>> >>> Setting presets is easy enough, just tune to the desired station and hold down one of the 6 preset buttons, radio mutes for a second or so and then a beep is heard to confirm to you that the preset is set. >>> >>> To recall a preset you just press the appropriate preset button, the radio has 12 presets, 6 for FM and 6 for AM. >>> >>> Radio tuning on the FM band is done in 50KHZ steps. >>> >>> The radio uses the AC mains lead as an antenna which seems to work quite affectively here and I'm a good way out of the metro area. >>> >>> I was initially somewhat disappointed with the performance of the radio on the AM band but after playing with the radio here for a while I accidentally discovered that this radio is extremely picky about where it is placed. >>> >>> I had the radio placed on the top of my fridge but decided to move it to the kitchen table where I could easily access the thing, I'm tall and can easily reach the top of my fridge but I'd rather sit down and play with a radio thanks than stand up all the time. >>> >>> When I moved the radio from the top of the fridge to the kitchen table the AM band sprang to life and I started receiving stations from over 500 miles away so I can only conclude that the built-in antenna for this radio resides in its bottom somewhere and the metal top of my fridge was shielding it. >>> >>> Not sure of the actual frequency ranges of both bands yet, will have to see if an online manual is available. >>> >>> Will have to set the clock at some stage though I'm told this is easily done. >>> >>> The radio has a dual alarm function. >>> >>> Be warned! when the radio is turned off at the mains and then turned on again the radio tuner resets itself, that is the station you were last listening to is not remembered however the presets seem to remain in tact. >>> >>> >>> >>> ======================================= >>> >>> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free >>> >>> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at >>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat >>> >>> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: >>> >>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html >>> >>> Or: >>> >>> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: >>> >>> >>> --------------------------------------- >> >> >> ======================================= >> >> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free >> >> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat >> >> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: >> >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html >> >> Or: >> >> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: >> >> >> --------------------------------------- > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- From grtdane at internode.on.net Mon Dec 26 01:50:04 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2011 12:50:04 +1100 Subject: A Very Happy Bose Christmas In-Reply-To: <429EB526-DCE1-4CDC-A1D0-A699AAF774F1@cox.net> References: <10F9F955-5605-40E1-A387-4FD0CD5F7BB4@internode.on.net> <0310137C-5D2C-4CA0-AE03-536E6B854537@cox.net> <429EB526-DCE1-4CDC-A1D0-A699AAF774F1@cox.net> Message-ID: Okay, I'll try that again, perhaps the strong thunderstorm activity prevented this feature from working when I last tried. Sent from Dane's Iphone +61457756048 On 26/12/2011, at 12:46 PM, David McLean wrote: > Yes. If you press and hold either of the scan buttons for a couple of seconds the unit should scan up or down until it fins a strong station. > On Dec 25, 2011, at 5:30 PM, Dane Trethowan wrote: > >> Thanks for this, have you found a way of using a "Seek" Function for the radio if its at all possible or do you have to tune manually. >> >> >> On 26/12/2011, at 9:08 AM, David McLean wrote: >> >>> One thing to add to this: Your radio should have come with a battery which is installed underneath the unit. This battery acts as a backup for the settings when power goes out or the unit is unplugged. It isn't enough to power the unit but will at least save your settings. >>> Also be careful of the the alarm. If you push it accidentally you might be unpleasantly surprised in the middle of the night! >>> I'd assume the AM band in Australia would be set to tune in 9 kHz increments whereas here in the USA it is 10khz. >>> The FM band here is 87.5 to 107.9mhz. >>> The round connector in the back is used as a wireless connector for the Bose Soundlink if you have one and can also be used for other wireless Bose connection units although I don't recall off hand what they are called. >>> The Soundlink is an interesting addition so you might want to give it a try. >>> >>> On Dec 25, 2011, at 1:06 PM, Dane Trethowan wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Folks! >>>> >>>> I trust you're all having a Happy Christmas, most of you are still enjoying the day whereas we in Australia are readying ourselves for the great day which is Boxing day. >>>> >>>> I hope Santa, brought you everything you asked for as he did in my case, he brought me a Bose Wave 2 Radio which I'd like to review below. >>>> >>>> I've been wanting one of these things for the last 16 years but every time I've planned to buy one the price has shot up so my joy was unmistakable yesterday when I unwrapped the box and then opened it to reveal The Bose Wave 2 Radio. >>>> >>>> I think it worth mentioning the box and packaging before I talk about what the radio has to offer. >>>> >>>> Initial impressions of the box lead me to believe that perhaps 2 people were going to be needed to unpack the radio as the box is huge! compared to the actual radio itself, no amount of packing and other stuff inside. >>>> >>>> The radio is clearly a world wide model as connecting cords are supplied for various countries including the U.S., England etc so that goes part of the way to explain the large box. A patch cord is supplied to enable the radio to be connected to your Hifi system or whatever. A manual which looks utterly superb sitting on a coffee table is part of the package though I suspect that its size is more to do with the fact that the manual is in multiple languages. Then there's the card type remote controller which in itself looks elligant sitting on a bedside table or whatever next to the radio. >>>> >>>> Now to the radio itself and here's the phrase you'll utter as I did, "Its small!" and that it is exactly, quite a bit smaller than the Yamaha desktop Audio systems we've been discussing over the last few weeks. >>>> >>>> The second thing which is immediately apparent is the total lack of controls, knobs, buttons, dials or any other function on the front or the top of the radio, on the front is a big display in the middle of 2 rather large speakers, the speakers actually take up most of the area of the front of the system so if you wish to control this system then you must! have the remote control handy. There is a multi pin connector at the back of the radio for connection to other devices so it may be that there is a way of controlling the radio through that somehow. >>>> >>>> On the back of the radio are 5 sockets, the AC mains connection, the aforementioned multi pin accessaries socket, an external antenna socket, an aux-in socket and a headphones jack. >>>> >>>> Setting up the radio is easy enough, plug in, turn on, select the band and start scanning for stations. >>>> >>>> Unfortunately I couldn't do much with the AM broadcast band when I tried out the radio late last night due to the severe Thunderstorm activity we had so I was initially disappointed though by this morning much of the thunderstorm activity had died out so I did manage to get to test the radio on AM after all so I'm very glad I delayed sending this review off. >>>> >>>> FM sounds absolutely brilliant! I submit that this radio actually sounds a little better than the Yamaha Desktop Audio systems, and its just as rich in sound and probably quite a bit louder! >>>> >>>> Unless I'm missing something this radio doesn't appear to have a "Seek" function so you must tune up and down the bands manually. >>>> >>>> Setting presets is easy enough, just tune to the desired station and hold down one of the 6 preset buttons, radio mutes for a second or so and then a beep is heard to confirm to you that the preset is set. >>>> >>>> To recall a preset you just press the appropriate preset button, the radio has 12 presets, 6 for FM and 6 for AM. >>>> >>>> Radio tuning on the FM band is done in 50KHZ steps. >>>> >>>> The radio uses the AC mains lead as an antenna which seems to work quite affectively here and I'm a good way out of the metro area. >>>> >>>> I was initially somewhat disappointed with the performance of the radio on the AM band but after playing with the radio here for a while I accidentally discovered that this radio is extremely picky about where it is placed. >>>> >>>> I had the radio placed on the top of my fridge but decided to move it to the kitchen table where I could easily access the thing, I'm tall and can easily reach the top of my fridge but I'd rather sit down and play with a radio thanks than stand up all the time. >>>> >>>> When I moved the radio from the top of the fridge to the kitchen table the AM band sprang to life and I started receiving stations from over 500 miles away so I can only conclude that the built-in antenna for this radio resides in its bottom somewhere and the metal top of my fridge was shielding it. >>>> >>>> Not sure of the actual frequency ranges of both bands yet, will have to see if an online manual is available. >>>> >>>> Will have to set the clock at some stage though I'm told this is easily done. >>>> >>>> The radio has a dual alarm function. >>>> >>>> Be warned! when the radio is turned off at the mains and then turned on again the radio tuner resets itself, that is the station you were last listening to is not remembered however the presets seem to remain in tact. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ======================================= >>>> >>>> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free >>>> >>>> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at >>>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat >>>> >>>> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: >>>> >>>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html >>>> >>>> Or: >>>> >>>> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: >>>> >>>> >>>> --------------------------------------- >>> >>> >>> ======================================= >>> >>> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free >>> >>> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at >>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat >>> >>> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: >>> >>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html >>> >>> Or: >>> >>> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: >>> >>> >>> --------------------------------------- >> >> >> ======================================= >> >> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free >> >> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat >> >> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: >> >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html >> >> Or: >> >> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: >> >> >> --------------------------------------- > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- From david.mclean at cox.net Mon Dec 26 01:53:46 2011 From: david.mclean at cox.net (David McLean) Date: Sun, 25 Dec 2011 20:53:46 -0500 Subject: A Very Happy Bose Christmas In-Reply-To: References: <10F9F955-5605-40E1-A387-4FD0CD5F7BB4@internode.on.net> <0310137C-5D2C-4CA0-AE03-536E6B854537@cox.net> <429EB526-DCE1-4CDC-A1D0-A699AAF774F1@cox.net> Message-ID: Could also be that the thunder static was so strong the Bose thought it was a station! It isn't smart just picks something that's a strong signal. On Dec 25, 2011, at 8:50 PM, Dane Trethowan wrote: > Okay, I'll try that again, perhaps the strong thunderstorm activity prevented this feature from working when I last tried. > > > > Sent from Dane's Iphone +61457756048 > > > On 26/12/2011, at 12:46 PM, David McLean wrote: > >> Yes. If you press and hold either of the scan buttons for a couple of seconds the unit should scan up or down until it fins a strong station. >> On Dec 25, 2011, at 5:30 PM, Dane Trethowan wrote: >> >>> Thanks for this, have you found a way of using a "Seek" Function for the radio if its at all possible or do you have to tune manually. >>> >>> >>> On 26/12/2011, at 9:08 AM, David McLean wrote: >>> >>>> One thing to add to this: Your radio should have come with a battery which is installed underneath the unit. This battery acts as a backup for the settings when power goes out or the unit is unplugged. It isn't enough to power the unit but will at least save your settings. >>>> Also be careful of the the alarm. If you push it accidentally you might be unpleasantly surprised in the middle of the night! >>>> I'd assume the AM band in Australia would be set to tune in 9 kHz increments whereas here in the USA it is 10khz. >>>> The FM band here is 87.5 to 107.9mhz. >>>> The round connector in the back is used as a wireless connector for the Bose Soundlink if you have one and can also be used for other wireless Bose connection units although I don't recall off hand what they are called. >>>> The Soundlink is an interesting addition so you might want to give it a try. >>>> >>>> On Dec 25, 2011, at 1:06 PM, Dane Trethowan wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi Folks! >>>>> >>>>> I trust you're all having a Happy Christmas, most of you are still enjoying the day whereas we in Australia are readying ourselves for the great day which is Boxing day. >>>>> >>>>> I hope Santa, brought you everything you asked for as he did in my case, he brought me a Bose Wave 2 Radio which I'd like to review below. >>>>> >>>>> I've been wanting one of these things for the last 16 years but every time I've planned to buy one the price has shot up so my joy was unmistakable yesterday when I unwrapped the box and then opened it to reveal The Bose Wave 2 Radio. >>>>> >>>>> I think it worth mentioning the box and packaging before I talk about what the radio has to offer. >>>>> >>>>> Initial impressions of the box lead me to believe that perhaps 2 people were going to be needed to unpack the radio as the box is huge! compared to the actual radio itself, no amount of packing and other stuff inside. >>>>> >>>>> The radio is clearly a world wide model as connecting cords are supplied for various countries including the U.S., England etc so that goes part of the way to explain the large box. A patch cord is supplied to enable the radio to be connected to your Hifi system or whatever. A manual which looks utterly superb sitting on a coffee table is part of the package though I suspect that its size is more to do with the fact that the manual is in multiple languages. Then there's the card type remote controller which in itself looks elligant sitting on a bedside table or whatever next to the radio. >>>>> >>>>> Now to the radio itself and here's the phrase you'll utter as I did, "Its small!" and that it is exactly, quite a bit smaller than the Yamaha desktop Audio systems we've been discussing over the last few weeks. >>>>> >>>>> The second thing which is immediately apparent is the total lack of controls, knobs, buttons, dials or any other function on the front or the top of the radio, on the front is a big display in the middle of 2 rather large speakers, the speakers actually take up most of the area of the front of the system so if you wish to control this system then you must! have the remote control handy. There is a multi pin connector at the back of the radio for connection to other devices so it may be that there is a way of controlling the radio through that somehow. >>>>> >>>>> On the back of the radio are 5 sockets, the AC mains connection, the aforementioned multi pin accessaries socket, an external antenna socket, an aux-in socket and a headphones jack. >>>>> >>>>> Setting up the radio is easy enough, plug in, turn on, select the band and start scanning for stations. >>>>> >>>>> Unfortunately I couldn't do much with the AM broadcast band when I tried out the radio late last night due to the severe Thunderstorm activity we had so I was initially disappointed though by this morning much of the thunderstorm activity had died out so I did manage to get to test the radio on AM after all so I'm very glad I delayed sending this review off. >>>>> >>>>> FM sounds absolutely brilliant! I submit that this radio actually sounds a little better than the Yamaha Desktop Audio systems, and its just as rich in sound and probably quite a bit louder! >>>>> >>>>> Unless I'm missing something this radio doesn't appear to have a "Seek" function so you must tune up and down the bands manually. >>>>> >>>>> Setting presets is easy enough, just tune to the desired station and hold down one of the 6 preset buttons, radio mutes for a second or so and then a beep is heard to confirm to you that the preset is set. >>>>> >>>>> To recall a preset you just press the appropriate preset button, the radio has 12 presets, 6 for FM and 6 for AM. >>>>> >>>>> Radio tuning on the FM band is done in 50KHZ steps. >>>>> >>>>> The radio uses the AC mains lead as an antenna which seems to work quite affectively here and I'm a good way out of the metro area. >>>>> >>>>> I was initially somewhat disappointed with the performance of the radio on the AM band but after playing with the radio here for a while I accidentally discovered that this radio is extremely picky about where it is placed. >>>>> >>>>> I had the radio placed on the top of my fridge but decided to move it to the kitchen table where I could easily access the thing, I'm tall and can easily reach the top of my fridge but I'd rather sit down and play with a radio thanks than stand up all the time. >>>>> >>>>> When I moved the radio from the top of the fridge to the kitchen table the AM band sprang to life and I started receiving stations from over 500 miles away so I can only conclude that the built-in antenna for this radio resides in its bottom somewhere and the metal top of my fridge was shielding it. >>>>> >>>>> Not sure of the actual frequency ranges of both bands yet, will have to see if an online manual is available. >>>>> >>>>> Will have to set the clock at some stage though I'm told this is easily done. >>>>> >>>>> The radio has a dual alarm function. >>>>> >>>>> Be warned! when the radio is turned off at the mains and then turned on again the radio tuner resets itself, that is the station you were last listening to is not remembered however the presets seem to remain in tact. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ======================================= >>>>> >>>>> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free >>>>> >>>>> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at >>>>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat >>>>> >>>>> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: >>>>> >>>>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html >>>>> >>>>> Or: >>>>> >>>>> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. 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The feed is at: >> >> >> --------------------------------------- > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- From martin at x.it.okstate.edu Mon Dec 26 02:14:29 2011 From: martin at x.it.okstate.edu (Martin McCormick) Date: Sun, 25 Dec 2011 20:14:29 -0600 Subject: Quality Control Message-ID: <201112260214.pBQ2ETqk013944@x.it.okstate.edu> If some of the UK tuners actually do work and others don't or the ones that do work are prone to quit, it really could be both bad design and poor quality control. Le'ts say that the phase lock loop which is at the heart of almost all modern tuners for AM and FM uses circuitry that is being run at something near its design limits so that a very small change in value of one of the components causes the loop not to lock any longer. That is potentially bad design because of the following: No matter where you live, the real world rules. We have humidity, temperature and dust and all those things can effect certain components. If the circuitry goes out of spec due to one or more of those components changing slightly, it quits working. Since everything must be top notch, any slight variation in one or more parts means that your tuner may quit which is related to quality control. In this case, the real world parts that are available may not be up to this job so poor design begets quality control issues since you are asking for an almost impossible level of perfection in finding parts good enough for the circuit. I have no actual knowledge of the phase-lock loops used in this tuner, but I have actually built circuits with phase-lock loop IC's and they are excellent devices until you start to run them near their upper frequency limits at which time they get flaky. If you can tweak and tune on a work bench to make the circuit work, but it quits after some of the parts age slightly or the room gets a little cold or hot, it's never going to work reliably. Let's hope they come to their senses and design something that keeps working even if it rains during the first quarter of the Moon. I am joking, but one does sometimes run in to designs that aren't very fit for the real world and its slings and arrows. I hope you had a happy Christmas and may your new year bring phase-lock loops that lock and track properly. Gordon's description of what the PLL's do is spot on. The circuits I built with them were not frequency synthesizers, but FM detectors. Those also have several factors that must be tweaked to get proper operation. It's a fine line between decoding a clear signal and loosing tracking which makes the loop never really work at all. Martin "Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith" writes: > Hello Dane > > I think you're missing the point. I never said it was quality control, it > is a design flaw as I said in my first post. A design flaw is very > different to quality control. > > The design flaw is an issue whereby some models, (they've only seen it in > UK models so far), develop a fault on the tuner's phase lock loop > circuitry (whatever that is), and the PLL cannot synchronise. Gordon is > telling me that the PLL is an IC which stabilises the base frequency of > the tuner so that the multipliers function properly. Well I don't pretend > to understand, but there you go. Apparently there is an intermittent > design flaw somewhere in that lot which is causing the tuners to > basically go AWOL and refuse to tune. It isn't anything remotely to do > with quality control, whatever name you want to give it, (Or rather, > Martin does). :) > > Merry Christmas all From grtdane at internode.on.net Mon Dec 26 05:00:27 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2011 16:00:27 +1100 Subject: A Very Happy Bose Christmas In-Reply-To: References: <10F9F955-5605-40E1-A387-4FD0CD5F7BB4@internode.on.net> <0310137C-5D2C-4CA0-AE03-536E6B854537@cox.net> <429EB526-DCE1-4CDC-A1D0-A699AAF774F1@cox.net> Message-ID: <4EF7FF6B.7030007@internode.on.net> Okay to clear something up, the Bose Wave II Radio does indeed have separate "Seek" buttons for its radio and they're on their own on the remote control so so distinguishing them on the remote from other functions and buttons isn't a problem, amazing what you find when you bother to try and scan the coffee table manual . On 26/12/2011 12:53 PM, David McLean wrote: > Could also be that the thunder static was so strong the Bose thought it was a station! It isn't smart just picks something that's a strong signal. > On Dec 25, 2011, at 8:50 PM, Dane Trethowan wrote: > >> Okay, I'll try that again, perhaps the strong thunderstorm activity prevented this feature from working when I last tried. >> >> >> >> Sent from Dane's Iphone +61457756048 >> >> >> On 26/12/2011, at 12:46 PM, David McLean wrote: >> >>> Yes. If you press and hold either of the scan buttons for a couple of seconds the unit should scan up or down until it fins a strong station. >>> On Dec 25, 2011, at 5:30 PM, Dane Trethowan wrote: >>> >>>> Thanks for this, have you found a way of using a "Seek" Function for the radio if its at all possible or do you have to tune manually. >>>> >>>> >>>> On 26/12/2011, at 9:08 AM, David McLean wrote: >>>> >>>>> One thing to add to this: Your radio should have come with a battery which is installed underneath the unit. This battery acts as a backup for the settings when power goes out or the unit is unplugged. It isn't enough to power the unit but will at least save your settings. >>>>> Also be careful of the the alarm. If you push it accidentally you might be unpleasantly surprised in the middle of the night! >>>>> I'd assume the AM band in Australia would be set to tune in 9 kHz increments whereas here in the USA it is 10khz. >>>>> The FM band here is 87.5 to 107.9mhz. >>>>> The round connector in the back is used as a wireless connector for the Bose Soundlink if you have one and can also be used for other wireless Bose connection units although I don't recall off hand what they are called. >>>>> The Soundlink is an interesting addition so you might want to give it a try. >>>>> >>>>> On Dec 25, 2011, at 1:06 PM, Dane Trethowan wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi Folks! >>>>>> >>>>>> I trust you're all having a Happy Christmas, most of you are still enjoying the day whereas we in Australia are readying ourselves for the great day which is Boxing day. >>>>>> >>>>>> I hope Santa, brought you everything you asked for as he did in my case, he brought me a Bose Wave 2 Radio which I'd like to review below. >>>>>> >>>>>> I've been wanting one of these things for the last 16 years but every time I've planned to buy one the price has shot up so my joy was unmistakable yesterday when I unwrapped the box and then opened it to reveal The Bose Wave 2 Radio. >>>>>> >>>>>> I think it worth mentioning the box and packaging before I talk about what the radio has to offer. >>>>>> >>>>>> Initial impressions of the box lead me to believe that perhaps 2 people were going to be needed to unpack the radio as the box is huge! compared to the actual radio itself, no amount of packing and other stuff inside. >>>>>> >>>>>> The radio is clearly a world wide model as connecting cords are supplied for various countries including the U.S., England etc so that goes part of the way to explain the large box. A patch cord is supplied to enable the radio to be connected to your Hifi system or whatever. A manual which looks utterly superb sitting on a coffee table is part of the package though I suspect that its size is more to do with the fact that the manual is in multiple languages. Then there's the card type remote controller which in itself looks elligant sitting on a bedside table or whatever next to the radio. >>>>>> >>>>>> Now to the radio itself and here's the phrase you'll utter as I did, "Its small!" and that it is exactly, quite a bit smaller than the Yamaha desktop Audio systems we've been discussing over the last few weeks. >>>>>> >>>>>> The second thing which is immediately apparent is the total lack of controls, knobs, buttons, dials or any other function on the front or the top of the radio, on the front is a big display in the middle of 2 rather large speakers, the speakers actually take up most of the area of the front of the system so if you wish to control this system then you must! have the remote control handy. There is a multi pin connector at the back of the radio for connection to other devices so it may be that there is a way of controlling the radio through that somehow. >>>>>> >>>>>> On the back of the radio are 5 sockets, the AC mains connection, the aforementioned multi pin accessaries socket, an external antenna socket, an aux-in socket and a headphones jack. >>>>>> >>>>>> Setting up the radio is easy enough, plug in, turn on, select the band and start scanning for stations. >>>>>> >>>>>> Unfortunately I couldn't do much with the AM broadcast band when I tried out the radio late last night due to the severe Thunderstorm activity we had so I was initially disappointed though by this morning much of the thunderstorm activity had died out so I did manage to get to test the radio on AM after all so I'm very glad I delayed sending this review off. >>>>>> >>>>>> FM sounds absolutely brilliant! I submit that this radio actually sounds a little better than the Yamaha Desktop Audio systems, and its just as rich in sound and probably quite a bit louder! >>>>>> >>>>>> Unless I'm missing something this radio doesn't appear to have a "Seek" function so you must tune up and down the bands manually. >>>>>> >>>>>> Setting presets is easy enough, just tune to the desired station and hold down one of the 6 preset buttons, radio mutes for a second or so and then a beep is heard to confirm to you that the preset is set. >>>>>> >>>>>> To recall a preset you just press the appropriate preset button, the radio has 12 presets, 6 for FM and 6 for AM. >>>>>> >>>>>> Radio tuning on the FM band is done in 50KHZ steps. >>>>>> >>>>>> The radio uses the AC mains lead as an antenna which seems to work quite affectively here and I'm a good way out of the metro area. >>>>>> >>>>>> I was initially somewhat disappointed with the performance of the radio on the AM band but after playing with the radio here for a while I accidentally discovered that this radio is extremely picky about where it is placed. >>>>>> >>>>>> I had the radio placed on the top of my fridge but decided to move it to the kitchen table where I could easily access the thing, I'm tall and can easily reach the top of my fridge but I'd rather sit down and play with a radio thanks than stand up all the time. >>>>>> >>>>>> When I moved the radio from the top of the fridge to the kitchen table the AM band sprang to life and I started receiving stations from over 500 miles away so I can only conclude that the built-in antenna for this radio resides in its bottom somewhere and the metal top of my fridge was shielding it. >>>>>> >>>>>> Not sure of the actual frequency ranges of both bands yet, will have to see if an online manual is available. >>>>>> >>>>>> Will have to set the clock at some stage though I'm told this is easily done. >>>>>> >>>>>> The radio has a dual alarm function. >>>>>> >>>>>> Be warned! when the radio is turned off at the mains and then turned on again the radio tuner resets itself, that is the station you were last listening to is not remembered however the presets seem to remain in tact. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ======================================= >>>>>> >>>>>> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free >>>>>> >>>>>> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at >>>>>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat >>>>>> >>>>>> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: >>>>>> >>>>>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html >>>>>> >>>>>> Or: >>>>>> >>>>>> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> --------------------------------------- >>>>> >>>>> ======================================= >>>>> >>>>> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free >>>>> >>>>> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at >>>>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat >>>>> >>>>> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: >>>>> >>>>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html >>>>> >>>>> Or: >>>>> >>>>> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> --------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> ======================================= >>>> >>>> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free >>>> >>>> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at >>>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat >>>> >>>> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: >>>> >>>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html >>>> >>>> Or: >>>> >>>> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: >>>> >>>> >>>> --------------------------------------- >>> >>> ======================================= >>> >>> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free >>> >>> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at >>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat >>> >>> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: >>> >>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html >>> >>> Or: >>> >>> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: >>> >>> >>> --------------------------------------- >> ======================================= >> >> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free >> >> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat >> >> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: >> >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html >> >> Or: >> >> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: >> >> >> --------------------------------------- > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- -- Dane Trethowan From Melton Victoria Australia skype callto:grtdane12 MSN: grtdane at dane-trethowan.net From d.griffith at btinternet.com Mon Dec 26 12:37:32 2011 From: d.griffith at btinternet.com (David Griffith) Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2011 12:37:32 +0000 Subject: Help! Rollback crippling my Netbook Message-ID: <02AA0031-72E6-4B92-AE12-D347B9C51421@btinternet.com> Dear all, After a discussion on this list I installed the trial version of Rollback. About 3 hours ago it complained about needing more disc space. Fair enough but what is not good is that it is flashing up this complaint approximately every 10 seconds and opening up dozens of windows to do so. The computer became unusable with these messages flashing up all the time. I could find no way of stopping Rollback from doing this. I fought against these constantly appearing messages and moved 20 gig onto a backup drive. Rollback is still complaining that it needs more disc space. I restarted the computer again rollback is behaving like a virus by flashing up an error window every 10 seconds making it impossible to do anything with the computer. In desperation I have just tried to uninstall Rollback 6 times with the uninstall process failing each time. All the time I am trying to uninstall i am getting hassling messages flashing up. I only have 100 gb on this drive and if it cannot cope with my freeing up 20 gb it is not a useful program for me. How do I get rid of this awful thing and get a usable netbook back? David Griffith d.griffith at btinternet.com From grtdane at internode.on.net Mon Dec 26 16:05:16 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane trethowan) Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2011 03:05:16 +1100 Subject: Apple "Airplay" Wireless Speaker System from JBL Message-ID: <4EF89B3C.4040709@internode.on.net> Hi! I think someone on list asked for recommendations regarding "Airplay" speaker systems, I've found one which sounds pretty good in the australian apple Store -- sent from my HP Powerhouse Notebook. From grtdane at internode.on.net Mon Dec 26 18:22:47 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane trethowan) Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2011 05:22:47 +1100 Subject: Article: Apple's Plans for iPhone battery Life Message-ID: <4EF8BB77.6050307@internode.on.net> Hi Folks! Thought some may find the article at of interest, perhaps we can expect some wonderful things! from the next iPhone whatever it will be called and once again the iPhone will sell itself. -- sent from my HP Powerhouse Notebook. From grtdane at internode.on.net Mon Dec 26 18:29:13 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane trethowan) Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2011 05:29:13 +1100 Subject: Bose Wave II Radio Message-ID: <4EF8BCF9.20005@internode.on.net> HI folks! As list members will be aware, I sent a mini review of the Bose Wave II radio to the list yesterday. Its since become apparent that the review contains a few errors which need correcting so I will rectify the problem a little later on today. Again thanks to everyone who has written to me on the subject of this radio with suggestions, tips etc, I'm enjoying the set as others who own this radio obviously are, I've not heard one word of complaint or negative comment directed towards this radio as yet. -- sent from my HP Powerhouse Notebook. From d.griffith at btinternet.com Mon Dec 26 18:39:07 2011 From: d.griffith at btinternet.com (David Griffith) Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2011 18:39:07 -0000 Subject: Help! Rollback crippling my Netbook In-Reply-To: <02AA0031-72E6-4B92-AE12-D347B9C51421@btinternet.com> References: <02AA0031-72E6-4B92-AE12-D347B9C51421@btinternet.com> Message-ID: <011D8BFBE8BD452081694EEC77009F0A@acer4d025c48b8> An update. I went to the Horizon site to try and get technical support for a Rollback uninstall but encountered a graphics capture which defeated me. I decided to abandon this course as the constant error sound and windows flashing up were driving me mad. I eventually turned the netbook over to my sighted son who grappled with the program for about an hour. He said he thought there were hundreds of error message windows opening up. At least he could turn the sound off to get rid of the constant error sounds. He too could not uninstall Rollback initially. Eventually he found a section of the program which allowed the deletion of snapshots and unlocking of the uninstall feature. I cannot swear to it but I think that this part of the program was not available without sighted help. Certainly it was not available to me with normal key commands. I did not use the jaws cursor as operations of this kind were disrupted by the constant error messages flashing up making any review of the screen extremely difficult. Anyway the good news is that after a considerable struggle my son has managed to remove Rollback for me after amending settings in the main program. This was not at all a straightforward process even for a competent academic scientist such as my son so this program is probably not for the faint hearted. It is with great relief that I have returned to a normal netbook. I have checked my drive properties and there is 21 GB free. This is apparently nowhere near enough for Rollback to do its stuff without wrecking your computer operation so if you do want to use Rollback make sure that you have loads of disc space available to prevent problems such as those I encountered. I guess I will stick to system restore in future. David Griffith -----Original Message----- From: techno-chat-bounces at techno-chat.net [mailto:techno-chat-bounces at techno-chat.net] On Behalf Of David Griffith Sent: 26 December 2011 12:38 To: Techno-Chat ... Technology Enthusiasm! Subject: Help! Rollback crippling my Netbook Dear all, After a discussion on this list I installed the trial version of Rollback. About 3 hours ago it complained about needing more disc space. Fair enough but what is not good is that it is flashing up this complaint approximately every 10 seconds and opening up dozens of windows to do so. The computer became unusable with these messages flashing up all the time. I could find no way of stopping Rollback from doing this. I fought against these constantly appearing messages and moved 20 gig onto a backup drive. Rollback is still complaining that it needs more disc space. I restarted the computer again rollback is behaving like a virus by flashing up an error window every 10 seconds making it impossible to do anything with the computer. In desperation I have just tried to uninstall Rollback 6 times with the uninstall process failing each time. All the time I am trying to uninstall i am getting hassling messages flashing up. I only have 100 gb on this drive and if it cannot cope with my freeing up 20 gb it is not a useful program for me. How do I get rid of this awful thing and get a usable netbook back? David Griffith d.griffith at btinternet.com ======================================= The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html Or: you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: --------------------------------------- From lynne at mac-access.net Mon Dec 26 18:57:26 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2011 18:57:26 +0000 Subject: Screen-Readers In-Reply-To: <90F2B80E-4FDE-49FE-A310-FF3DA966CCA7@softcon.com> References: <34C6E92C-EFBB-4F69-80BE-1210AADB5BFC@mac-access.net> <785B937A-7CBE-4FE1-98E6-ECB0372B3BDA@internode.on.net> <31CA5661-1A9B-4848-8C9E-861D1FE49826@mac-access.net> <4EF6249E.2020604@internode.on.net> <961E6202-CF5E-4FFA-8062-BD6FB739838A@mac-access.net> <90F2B80E-4FDE-49FE-A310-FF3DA966CCA7@softcon.com> Message-ID: Hello Dane I hope that's true; but the rumours are that Microsoft have reached an agreement with the developers of NVDA to do something with it. I'm not sure what, but somebody mentioned it somewhere in public not long ago. I hope you're right; I hope there's always some free version kicking around. As I've just told you in private, we won't be buying any further updates to Window-Eyes. It's just reached the point now where it is over-priced junk. Lynne On 25 Dec 2011, at 17:20, Travis Siegel wrote: nvda is open source, it can't be taken away from the market, unless they somehow withdraw every single copy of the source they ever distributed. Not possible. And, even if they do, there's nothing stopping someone else from forking the source, and starting another version. No worries on that front. ======================================= The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html Or: you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: --------------------------------------- From gordon at mac-access.net Mon Dec 26 19:05:30 2011 From: gordon at mac-access.net (Gordon Smith) Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2011 19:05:30 +0000 Subject: Help! Rollback crippling my Netbook In-Reply-To: <02AA0031-72E6-4B92-AE12-D347B9C51421@btinternet.com> References: <02AA0031-72E6-4B92-AE12-D347B9C51421@btinternet.com> Message-ID: <863CBA51-F2C6-4C98-A3BA-D36E267B1E21@mac-access.net> David You need to modify the default configuration, which is crazy. We have it set to only take snaps when we want to do something manually. Otherwise it eats hard drive space for breakfast. Lynne On 26 Dec 2011, at 12:37, David Griffith wrote: Dear all, After a discussion on this list I installed the trial version of Rollback. About 3 hours ago it complained about needing more disc space. Fair enough but what is not good is that it is flashing up this complaint approximately every 10 seconds and opening up dozens of windows to do so. The computer became unusable with these messages flashing up all the time. I could find no way of stopping Rollback from doing this. I fought against these constantly appearing messages and moved 20 gig onto a backup drive. Rollback is still complaining that it needs more disc space. I restarted the computer again rollback is behaving like a virus by flashing up an error window every 10 seconds making it impossible to do anything with the computer. In desperation I have just tried to uninstall Rollback 6 times with the uninstall process failing each time. All the time I am trying to uninstall i am getting hassling messages flashing up. I only have 100 gb on this drive and if it cannot cope with my freeing up 20 gb it is not a useful program for me. How do I get rid of this awful thing and get a usable netbook back? David Griffith d.griffith at btinternet.com ======================================= The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html Or: you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: --------------------------------------- From lynne at mac-access.net Mon Dec 26 19:09:25 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2011 19:09:25 +0000 Subject: Help! Rollback crippling my Netbook In-Reply-To: <863CBA51-F2C6-4C98-A3BA-D36E267B1E21@mac-access.net> References: <02AA0031-72E6-4B92-AE12-D347B9C51421@btinternet.com> <863CBA51-F2C6-4C98-A3BA-D36E267B1E21@mac-access.net> Message-ID: Oopse! Sorry David, forgot to change accounts. Lynne On 26 Dec 2011, at 19:05, Gordon Smith wrote: David You need to modify the default configuration, which is crazy. We have it set to only take snaps when we want to do something manually. Otherwise it eats hard drive space for breakfast. Lynne On 26 Dec 2011, at 12:37, David Griffith wrote: Dear all, After a discussion on this list I installed the trial version of Rollback. About 3 hours ago it complained about needing more disc space. Fair enough but what is not good is that it is flashing up this complaint approximately every 10 seconds and opening up dozens of windows to do so. The computer became unusable with these messages flashing up all the time. I could find no way of stopping Rollback from doing this. I fought against these constantly appearing messages and moved 20 gig onto a backup drive. Rollback is still complaining that it needs more disc space. I restarted the computer again rollback is behaving like a virus by flashing up an error window every 10 seconds making it impossible to do anything with the computer. In desperation I have just tried to uninstall Rollback 6 times with the uninstall process failing each time. All the time I am trying to uninstall i am getting hassling messages flashing up. I only have 100 gb on this drive and if it cannot cope with my freeing up 20 gb it is not a useful program for me. How do I get rid of this awful thing and get a usable netbook back? David Griffith d.griffith at btinternet.com ======================================= The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html Or: you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: --------------------------------------- ======================================= The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html Or: you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: --------------------------------------- From grtdane at internode.on.net Mon Dec 26 19:23:10 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane trethowan) Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2011 06:23:10 +1100 Subject: Screen-Readers In-Reply-To: References: <34C6E92C-EFBB-4F69-80BE-1210AADB5BFC@mac-access.net> <785B937A-7CBE-4FE1-98E6-ECB0372B3BDA@internode.on.net> <31CA5661-1A9B-4848-8C9E-861D1FE49826@mac-access.net> <4EF6249E.2020604@internode.on.net> <961E6202-CF5E-4FFA-8062-BD6FB739838A@mac-access.net> <90F2B80E-4FDE-49FE-A310-FF3DA966CCA7@softcon.com> Message-ID: <4EF8C99E.2030005@internode.on.net> I'm sure I'm right, "Narrator" for Windows 8 is out if you know where to go to see it. On 27/12/2011 5:57 AM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: > Hello Dane > > I hope that's true; but the rumours are that Microsoft have reached an agreement with the developers of NVDA to do something with it. I'm not sure what, but somebody mentioned it somewhere in public not long ago. > > I hope you're right; I hope there's always some free version kicking around. As I've just told you in private, we won't be buying any further updates to Window-Eyes. It's just reached the point now where it is over-priced junk. > > Lynne > > > On 25 Dec 2011, at 17:20, Travis Siegel wrote: > > nvda is open source, it can't be taken away from the market, unless they somehow withdraw every single copy of the source they ever distributed. Not possible. > And, even if they do, there's nothing stopping someone else from forking the source, and starting another version. > No worries on that front. > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- -- sent from my HP Powerhouse Notebook. From grtdane at internode.on.net Mon Dec 26 19:24:25 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane trethowan) Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2011 06:24:25 +1100 Subject: Screen-Readers In-Reply-To: References: <34C6E92C-EFBB-4F69-80BE-1210AADB5BFC@mac-access.net> <785B937A-7CBE-4FE1-98E6-ECB0372B3BDA@internode.on.net> <31CA5661-1A9B-4848-8C9E-861D1FE49826@mac-access.net> <4EF6249E.2020604@internode.on.net> <961E6202-CF5E-4FFA-8062-BD6FB739838A@mac-access.net> <90F2B80E-4FDE-49FE-A310-FF3DA966CCA7@softcon.com> Message-ID: <4EF8C9E9.9040608@internode.on.net> Hmmm.. not sure I'd go so far as to call Window-Eyes "Overpriced junk", but I will say that GW Micro have dropped the ball and need to do some serious work on the software. On 27/12/2011 5:57 AM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: > Hello Dane > > I hope that's true; but the rumours are that Microsoft have reached an agreement with the developers of NVDA to do something with it. I'm not sure what, but somebody mentioned it somewhere in public not long ago. > > I hope you're right; I hope there's always some free version kicking around. As I've just told you in private, we won't be buying any further updates to Window-Eyes. It's just reached the point now where it is over-priced junk. > > Lynne > > > On 25 Dec 2011, at 17:20, Travis Siegel wrote: > > nvda is open source, it can't be taken away from the market, unless they somehow withdraw every single copy of the source they ever distributed. Not possible. > And, even if they do, there's nothing stopping someone else from forking the source, and starting another version. > No worries on that front. > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- -- sent from my HP Powerhouse Notebook. From lynne at mac-access.net Tue Dec 27 11:33:47 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2011 11:33:47 +0000 Subject: Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <4EF8C99E.2030005@internode.on.net> References: <34C6E92C-EFBB-4F69-80BE-1210AADB5BFC@mac-access.net> <785B937A-7CBE-4FE1-98E6-ECB0372B3BDA@internode.on.net> <31CA5661-1A9B-4848-8C9E-861D1FE49826@mac-access.net> <4EF6249E.2020604@internode.on.net> <961E6202-CF5E-4FFA-8062-BD6FB739838A@mac-access.net> <90F2B80E-4FDE-49FE-A310-FF3DA966CCA7@softcon.com> <4EF8C99E.2030005@internode.on.net> Message-ID: Hello Dane Windows 8 is already available for developers. I've seen it first hand. Lynne On 26 Dec 2011, at 19:23, Dane trethowan wrote: I'm sure I'm right, "Narrator" for Windows 8 is out if you know where to go to see it. From lynne at mac-access.net Tue Dec 27 11:38:15 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2011 11:38:15 +0000 Subject: Screen-Readers In-Reply-To: <4EF8C9E9.9040608@internode.on.net> References: <34C6E92C-EFBB-4F69-80BE-1210AADB5BFC@mac-access.net> <785B937A-7CBE-4FE1-98E6-ECB0372B3BDA@internode.on.net> <31CA5661-1A9B-4848-8C9E-861D1FE49826@mac-access.net> <4EF6249E.2020604@internode.on.net> <961E6202-CF5E-4FFA-8062-BD6FB739838A@mac-access.net> <90F2B80E-4FDE-49FE-A310-FF3DA966CCA7@softcon.com> <4EF8C9E9.9040608@internode.on.net> Message-ID: <0C2516AA-6B12-4DDC-85E6-BF2F00B47B5B@mac-access.net> Hello Dane On 26 Dec 2011, at 19:24, Dane trethowan wrote: Hmmm.. not sure I'd go so far as to call Window-Eyes "Overpriced junk", but I will say that GW Micro have dropped the ball and need to do some serious work on the software. The proof of the pudding is in the eating; and Window-Eyes doesn't seem to be making a very tasty pudding for a lot of people recently. However, the proof will come as far as we're concerned later today when we try mail, Adobe DreamWeaver CS5.5 and a few other things. But as I've told you, Gordon has decided that, until or unless things improve radically, he doesn't intend any further paid updates of Window-Eyes. Lynne From tsiegel at softcon.com Tue Dec 27 12:13:29 2011 From: tsiegel at softcon.com (Travis Siegel) Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2011 07:13:29 -0500 Subject: Screen-Readers In-Reply-To: <0C2516AA-6B12-4DDC-85E6-BF2F00B47B5B@mac-access.net> References: <34C6E92C-EFBB-4F69-80BE-1210AADB5BFC@mac-access.net> <785B937A-7CBE-4FE1-98E6-ECB0372B3BDA@internode.on.net> <31CA5661-1A9B-4848-8C9E-861D1FE49826@mac-access.net> <4EF6249E.2020604@internode.on.net> <961E6202-CF5E-4FFA-8062-BD6FB739838A@mac-access.net> <90F2B80E-4FDE-49FE-A310-FF3DA966CCA7@softcon.com> <4EF8C9E9.9040608@internode.on.net> <0C2516AA-6B12-4DDC-85E6-BF2F00B47B5B@mac-access.net> Message-ID: <2AAAC162-7044-4E57-BFCA-19738C3888EE@softcon.com> Yah, I had a very bad experience with gwmicro a couple years ago. I'd gotten on the rental plan. Basically, you pay a hundred bucks a month for so many months, then after your time is up, they'd send you the full version of the software, and you're all done. Well, after about 4 or 5 months, I'd been paying, but not using the codes, because I didn't need them at the time. But when I did finally start using them, I wound up using all three in a single day, because everytime I rebooted, we would claim it wasn't registered, and needed a new code. Also, it turns out that during this timeframe, 6.0 came out (I'd started during 5.5's time) and gwmicro never did send me an updated copy of 6.0. After complaining, and asking for new codes, I was told no, but I was welcome to continue the payment plan, and they'd happily send me version 6.0 when I'd paid the remainder of my term. Needless to say, I declined their offer, and no longer consider we to be worthwhile. If I wanted treatment like that, I'd pay my upgrade fee, and get my sma back for jaws. These companies just don't get it. Ah well. One of these days ... enjoy. From lynne at mac-access.net Tue Dec 27 13:31:45 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2011 13:31:45 +0000 Subject: Screen-Readers In-Reply-To: <2AAAC162-7044-4E57-BFCA-19738C3888EE@softcon.com> References: <34C6E92C-EFBB-4F69-80BE-1210AADB5BFC@mac-access.net> <785B937A-7CBE-4FE1-98E6-ECB0372B3BDA@internode.on.net> <31CA5661-1A9B-4848-8C9E-861D1FE49826@mac-access.net> <4EF6249E.2020604@internode.on.net> <961E6202-CF5E-4FFA-8062-BD6FB739838A@mac-access.net> <90F2B80E-4FDE-49FE-A310-FF3DA966CCA7@softcon.com> <4EF8C9E9.9040608@internode.on.net> <0C2516AA-6B12-4DDC-85E6-BF2F00B47B5B@mac-access.net> <2AAAC162-7044-4E57-BFCA-19738C3888EE@softcon.com> Message-ID: <373C49EE-740B-47D0-944F-C052533434DB@mac-access.net> Helo Travis I've just been as good as told, by another member of this group who doesn't have vision, that my views are not worth the consideration because I'm fortunate enough to be able to see. I just don't get the logic behind isolationism based on a disability; but there we are. All the same, I'm going to offer a view for the discussion by those who do think that somebody with vision shouldn't be excluded as an "Outsider", "Intruder", call it what you will. I happen to think that you're right, Travis. All of these accessibility companies producing grossly over-priced and often over-rated products for the supposed benefit of the visually impaired are just a huge racket. I hope you'll forgive me for offering the view that visually impaired or otherwise disabled persons have just as much right to access to information technology as the rest of us do; and they shouldn't have to pay vastly inflated prices for the privilege. What I'm saying is that if these companies would only realise it, there's a market there without bumping up the prices. Apple has proven that much by offering VoiceOver as part of its desktop and mobile products. Window-Eyes itself is becoming more like JFW, so I'm told, in terms of the company's approach to sales, support and the product as a whole. It's kind of like if you can't beat 'em, join 'em! Lynne On 27 Dec 2011, at 12:13, Travis Siegel wrote: Yah, I had a very bad experience with gwmicro a couple years ago. I'd gotten on the rental plan. Basically, you pay a hundred bucks a month for so many months, then after your time is up, they'd send you the full version of the software, and you're all done. Well, after about 4 or 5 months, I'd been paying, but not using the codes, because I didn't need them at the time. But when I did finally start using them, I wound up using all three in a single day, because everytime I rebooted, we would claim it wasn't registered, and needed a new code. Also, it turns out that during this timeframe, 6.0 came out (I'd started during 5.5's time) and gwmicro never did send me an updated copy of 6.0. After complaining, and asking for new codes, I was told no, but I was welcome to continue the payment plan, and they'd happily send me version 6.0 when I'd paid the remainder of my term. Needless to say, I declined their offer, and no longer consider we to be worthwhile. If I wanted treatment like that, I'd pay my upgrade fee, and get my sma back for jaws. These companies just don't get it. Ah well. One of these days ... enjoy. ======================================= The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html Or: you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: --------------------------------------- From lynne at mac-access.net Tue Dec 27 15:34:06 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2011 15:34:06 +0000 Subject: USB to Parallel Message-ID: <28D1CBA6-9A3D-4708-8344-414F526CD145@mac-access.net> Hello everybody I just bought a USB to parallel cable for our embosser, in the hope that it will allow us to once again emboss. However, despite the instructions which unfortunately refer to Windows 98/2000, when I plug the cable into our Windows 7 PC, no external port is appearing. The instructions said that you should see the adapter as LTP2 but it's only listed under the USB controller devices and has no matching parallel port assignment. I also don't see a ports tab, as shown in the instructions. Any ideas? This really is frustrating; I just can't believe they've sold me something that's not Windows 7 compatible. I'm no technical expert, and I did specifically ask if it would work with Windows 7, and was told "Oh yes, no problem". Well maybe it will; I'm just not sure how. Constructive suggestions gratefully received. Lynne From d.griffith at btinternet.com Tue Dec 27 16:56:38 2011 From: d.griffith at btinternet.com (David Griffith) Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2011 16:56:38 -0000 Subject: USB to Parallel In-Reply-To: <28D1CBA6-9A3D-4708-8344-414F526CD145@mac-access.net> References: <28D1CBA6-9A3D-4708-8344-414F526CD145@mac-access.net> Message-ID: <2AC9DBFEAB394E40937043C22EEB8AE3@acer4d025c48b8> I had some similar problems a few years back tying to recycle a printer. I think the following may or may not be useful but I will offer it anyway. 1. I think you need the actual device to be plugged into the adaptor for Windows 7 to establish a driver for the adaptor. You have probably already done this but just checking. 2. I do not thing you necessarily get a traditional lpt port created . By the adaptor. The following is a an excerpt from a Microsoft page which may describe this better than I can. You do not have a parallel port on the machine. Anything sent to the parallel port device should fail on writes. Change the port to the USB00n port created when you plugged in the cable. You will see the port listed in the ports list. This will typically be USB001 when you do not have any otherUSB attached printers. http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_7-hardware/connecti ng-an-hp-laserjet-4-parallel-printer-via/cede656d-bafa-47b2-b4e0-ed86b132e39 d ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- -----Original Message----- From: techno-chat-bounces at techno-chat.net [mailto:techno-chat-bounces at techno-chat.net] On Behalf Of Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith Sent: 27 December 2011 15:34 To: Techno-Chat ... Technology Enthusiasm! Subject: USB to Parallel Hello everybody I just bought a USB to parallel cable for our embosser, in the hope that it will allow us to once again emboss. However, despite the instructions which unfortunately refer to Windows 98/2000, when I plug the cable into our Windows 7 PC, no external port is appearing. The instructions said that you should see the adapter as LTP2 but it's only listed under the USB controller devices and has no matching parallel port assignment. I also don't see a ports tab, as shown in the instructions. Any ideas? This really is frustrating; I just can't believe they've sold me something that's not Windows 7 compatible. I'm no technical expert, and I did specifically ask if it would work with Windows 7, and was told "Oh yes, no problem". Well maybe it will; I'm just not sure how. Constructive suggestions gratefully received. Lynne ======================================= The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html Or: you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: --------------------------------------- From lynne at mac-access.net Tue Dec 27 17:46:00 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2011 17:46:00 +0000 Subject: USB to Parallel In-Reply-To: <2AC9DBFEAB394E40937043C22EEB8AE3@acer4d025c48b8> References: <28D1CBA6-9A3D-4708-8344-414F526CD145@mac-access.net> <2AC9DBFEAB394E40937043C22EEB8AE3@acer4d025c48b8> Message-ID: <960ADFC4-7B39-48EC-BADA-5E4A5E428CEC@mac-access.net> Hello David I'll make sure we did this; but I'm 99^% sure we did have the device plugged in and turned on. Thanks for your helpful input. Lynne On 27 Dec 2011, at 16:56, David Griffith wrote: ? I had some similar problems a few years back tying to recycle a printer. I think the following may or may not be useful but I will offer it anyway. 1. I think you need the actual device to be plugged into the adaptor for Windows 7 to establish a driver for the adaptor. You have probably already done this but just checking. 2. I do not thing you necessarily get a traditional lpt port created . By the adaptor. The following is a an excerpt from a Microsoft page which may describe this better than I can. You do not have a parallel port on the machine. Anything sent to the parallel port device should fail on writes. Change the port to the USB00n port created when you plugged in the cable. You will see the port listed in the ports list. This will typically be USB001 when you do not have any otherUSB attached printers. http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_7-hardware/connecti ng-an-hp-laserjet-4-parallel-printer-via/cede656d-bafa-47b2-b4e0-ed86b132e39 d ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- -----Original Message----- From: techno-chat-bounces at techno-chat.net [mailto:techno-chat-bounces at techno-chat.net] On Behalf Of Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith Sent: 27 December 2011 15:34 To: Techno-Chat ... Technology Enthusiasm! Subject: USB to Parallel Hello everybody I just bought a USB to parallel cable for our embosser, in the hope that it will allow us to once again emboss. However, despite the instructions which unfortunately refer to Windows 98/2000, when I plug the cable into our Windows 7 PC, no external port is appearing. The instructions said that you should see the adapter as LTP2 but it's only listed under the USB controller devices and has no matching parallel port assignment. I also don't see a ports tab, as shown in the instructions. Any ideas? This really is frustrating; I just can't believe they've sold me something that's not Windows 7 compatible. I'm no technical expert, and I did specifically ask if it would work with Windows 7, and was told "Oh yes, no problem". Well maybe it will; I'm just not sure how. Constructive suggestions gratefully received. Lynne ======================================= The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html Or: you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: --------------------------------------- ======================================= The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html Or: you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: --------------------------------------- From hopewell at hopewell.org.uk Tue Dec 27 17:52:34 2011 From: hopewell at hopewell.org.uk (Paul Hopewell) Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2011 17:52:34 +0000 Subject: Screen-Readers In-Reply-To: <373C49EE-740B-47D0-944F-C052533434DB@mac-access.net> References: <34C6E92C-EFBB-4F69-80BE-1210AADB5BFC@mac-access.net> <785B937A-7CBE-4FE1-98E6-ECB0372B3BDA@internode.on.net> <31CA5661-1A9B-4848-8C9E-861D1FE49826@mac-access.net> <4EF6249E.2020604@internode.on.net> <961E6202-CF5E-4FFA-8062-BD6FB739838A@mac-access.net> <90F2B80E-4FDE-49FE-A310-FF3DA966CCA7@softcon.com> <4EF8C9E9.9040608@internode.on.net> <0C2516AA-6B12-4DDC-85E6-BF2F00B47B5B@mac-access.net> <2AAAC162-7044-4E57-BFCA-19738C3888EE@softcon.com> <373C49EE-740B-47D0-944F-C052533434DB@mac-access.net> Message-ID: <729FF942-EFEE-451E-82C3-45A98036827E@hopewell.org.uk> HI Lynne, Although WindowEyes may seem expensive it and other assistive technology products have a small market compared with mainstream software. Last time I looked the GWMicro team was about 20 strong and they all have to be paid. The cost of employing each person could be around 100 K dollars including costs like office space. to support this GWMicro has to make around 2 million dollars a year, which means they have to sell around 4000 copies of WindowEyes a year. Software pricing critically depends on sales volumes which will always be small for specialised areas like assistive technology. Now to someone like Apple or even Microsoft 2 million dollars a year is a small sum which they can easily absorb. the only way to get affordable assistive technology is for it to be included in mainstream products like Apple or for it to b provided in a not for profit way like NVDA and Thunder. The latter though cannot bring sufficient resources to bear to keep their offerings fully up to date with the ever changing user environment. So lets not be too harsh on GWMicro.! Best regards.... Paul Hopewell From grtdane at internode.on.net Tue Dec 27 18:03:42 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane trethowan) Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2011 05:03:42 +1100 Subject: Screen-Readers In-Reply-To: <729FF942-EFEE-451E-82C3-45A98036827E@hopewell.org.uk> References: <34C6E92C-EFBB-4F69-80BE-1210AADB5BFC@mac-access.net> <785B937A-7CBE-4FE1-98E6-ECB0372B3BDA@internode.on.net> <31CA5661-1A9B-4848-8C9E-861D1FE49826@mac-access.net> <4EF6249E.2020604@internode.on.net> <961E6202-CF5E-4FFA-8062-BD6FB739838A@mac-access.net> <90F2B80E-4FDE-49FE-A310-FF3DA966CCA7@softcon.com> <4EF8C9E9.9040608@internode.on.net> <0C2516AA-6B12-4DDC-85E6-BF2F00B47B5B@mac-access.net> <2AAAC162-7044-4E57-BFCA-19738C3888EE@softcon.com> <373C49EE-740B-47D0-944F-C052533434DB@mac-access.net> <729FF942-EFEE-451E-82C3-45A98036827E@hopewell.org.uk> Message-ID: <4EFA087E.10202@internode.on.net> I take your points below regarding the price of adaptive technology however some people unfortunately seem to have problems realising just what adaptive technology involves. firstly - regardless of what anyone thinks of Window-Eyes, JFW etc - a lot of time and money has to go into research and development and to pay the staff as you mentioned. the high cost of assistive technology isn't just limited to blind and visually impaired people, I paid $5,000 for my hearing aids, yep its a fair slug however given that these hearing istruments are the best things I've heard since I had near full natural hearing some 30 years ago as a child then $5,000.00 to me at least - given all the research and obvious development that went on to design these things in the first place - seems a most worthwhile investment as the instruments allow me to keep my independence. There are a lot of people who compare things like K1000 with off-the-shelf OCR solutions such as Omnipage and fine reader. Whilst all these products are excellent it has to be remembered that fine Reader and Omnipage were not deliberately developed and designed with the visually impaired or totally blind user in mind and that makes a great deal of difference, Omnipage and fine reader are designed as "Document Managers", you scan your documents in and store them, making corrections as required thus you require a screen in most cases to see what you're doing. K1000, Open Book etc are designed to scan a document, book, manuscript or whatever and read it "right out of the box" for want of a better description and in 9 times out of ten cases that description is accurate. If corrections need to be made to the recognised volume then the user has the tools at his/her disposal to accomplish that task so all this additional development for the user adds to the overal cost. The above is just one example, I could go on but that should be enough to suffice . On 28/12/2011 4:52 AM, Paul Hopewell wrote: > HI Lynne, > Although WindowEyes may seem expensive it and other assistive technology products have a small market compared with mainstream software. Last time I looked the GWMicro team was about 20 strong and they all have to be paid. The cost of employing each person could be around 100 K dollars including costs like office space. to support this GWMicro has to make around 2 million dollars a year, which means they have to sell around 4000 copies of WindowEyes a year. Software pricing critically depends on sales volumes which will always be small for specialised areas like assistive technology. > Now to someone like Apple or even Microsoft 2 million dollars a year is a small sum which they can easily absorb. the only way to get affordable assistive technology is for it to be included in mainstream products like Apple or for it to b provided in a not for profit way like NVDA and Thunder. The latter though cannot bring sufficient resources to bear to keep their offerings fully up to date with the ever changing user environment. > So lets not be too harsh on GWMicro.! > Best regards.... > > Paul Hopewell > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- -- sent from my HP Powerhouse Notebook. From lynne at mac-access.net Tue Dec 27 18:45:23 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2011 18:45:23 +0000 Subject: Screen-Readers In-Reply-To: <729FF942-EFEE-451E-82C3-45A98036827E@hopewell.org.uk> References: <34C6E92C-EFBB-4F69-80BE-1210AADB5BFC@mac-access.net> <785B937A-7CBE-4FE1-98E6-ECB0372B3BDA@internode.on.net> <31CA5661-1A9B-4848-8C9E-861D1FE49826@mac-access.net> <4EF6249E.2020604@internode.on.net> <961E6202-CF5E-4FFA-8062-BD6FB739838A@mac-access.net> <90F2B80E-4FDE-49FE-A310-FF3DA966CCA7@softcon.com> <4EF8C9E9.9040608@internode.on.net> <0C2516AA-6B12-4DDC-85E6-BF2F00B47B5B@mac-access.net> <2AAAC162-7044-4E57-BFCA-19738C3888EE@softcon.com> <373C49EE-740B-47D0-944F-C052533434DB@mac-access.net> <729FF942-EFEE-451E-82C3-45A98036827E@hopewell.org.uk> Message-ID: Hello Paul I'm not in a position to argue the exact stats and figures, so I wouldn't like to in any way contradict your quotes. However, Apple has shown what's possible if the developer is prepared to play ball, so to speak. The number of vision impaired people using their products is rising rapidly; even Freedom Scientific's own vice president is an iPhone user I believe. So although I see your point, I really think it's a case of milking the customer for all they can get. Lynne On 27 Dec 2011, at 17:52, Paul Hopewell wrote: HI Lynne, Although WindowEyes may seem expensive it and other assistive technology products have a small market compared with mainstream software. Last time I looked the GWMicro team was about 20 strong and they all have to be paid. The cost of employing each person could be around 100 K dollars including costs like office space. to support this GWMicro has to make around 2 million dollars a year, which means they have to sell around 4000 copies of WindowEyes a year. Software pricing critically depends on sales volumes which will always be small for specialised areas like assistive technology. Now to someone like Apple or even Microsoft 2 million dollars a year is a small sum which they can easily absorb. the only way to get affordable assistive technology is for it to be included in mainstream products like Apple or for it to b provided in a not for profit way like NVDA and Thunder. The latter though cannot bring sufficient resources to bear to keep their offerings fully up to date with the ever changing user environment. So lets not be too harsh on GWMicro.! Best regards.... Paul Hopewell ======================================= The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html Or: you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: --------------------------------------- From grtdane at internode.on.net Tue Dec 27 20:15:32 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2011 07:15:32 +1100 Subject: Screen-Readers In-Reply-To: References: <34C6E92C-EFBB-4F69-80BE-1210AADB5BFC@mac-access.net> <785B937A-7CBE-4FE1-98E6-ECB0372B3BDA@internode.on.net> <31CA5661-1A9B-4848-8C9E-861D1FE49826@mac-access.net> <4EF6249E.2020604@internode.on.net> <961E6202-CF5E-4FFA-8062-BD6FB739838A@mac-access.net> <90F2B80E-4FDE-49FE-A310-FF3DA966CCA7@softcon.com> <4EF8C9E9.9040608@internode.on.net> <0C2516AA-6B12-4DDC-85E6-BF2F00B47B5B@mac-access.net> <2AAAC162-7044-4E57-BFCA-19738C3888EE@softcon.com> <373C49EE-740B-47D0-944F-C052533434DB@mac-access.net> <729FF942-EFEE-451E-82C3-45A98036827E@hopewell.org.uk> Message-ID: <398EE1EC-941B-43FC-808D-435DF03F4CEC@internode.on.net> And what's Apple got to do with Window-Eyes? We're talking too completely different scenarios here it seems. Apple are developing their computers, their operating system and so on thus its easier for the company to incorporate such useful features such as a Screen Reading solution, a magnifier or whatever else into an operating system as they've done. Gw Micro, Freedom Scientific and the rest are third party developers who have to work within the framework as set down by Microsoft so I would imagine that this restriction hampers developers somewhat thus extra time has to be spent on the development of a Screen reading system, not to mention the fact that accessibility for the Windows operating system itself seems to be going backwards these days and that's not a fault of the Screen Reader developers rather its a fault of Microsoft. As for more and more blind people using Apple Computers with Voiceover? That's a very bold claim and I've certainly seen no data to support it, Apple still have quite a long way to go and I'm sure they'll get there eventually, look at how far JFW has come over 10 years. Fact is that integration between a Mac and Windows is still a problem in some areas and a classic example of this can be found with Microsoft Office documents, the whole Microsoft suite is accessible under windows and one could say - for better or for worse - that the Microsoft Office suite is a standard so far so good. When you come to using a Microsoft Office document on a Mac - particularly if you're using Voiceover - then its an entirely different and sometimes complex ball game. Microsoft Office isn't accessible on the Mac so that's the first major handicap so the only solutions from here are third party applications and some are more successful with Microsoft Office files than others, as I understand it Nisus Writer Pro for example handles Microsoft Word Documents than does Pages but neither handle them with 100% accuracy. On 28/12/2011, at 5:45 AM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: > Hello Paul > > I'm not in a position to argue the exact stats and figures, so I wouldn't like to in any way contradict your quotes. However, Apple has shown what's possible if the developer is prepared to play ball, so to speak. The number of vision impaired people using their products is rising rapidly; even Freedom Scientific's own vice president is an iPhone user I believe. So although I see your point, I really think it's a case of milking the customer for all they can get. > > Lynne > > > On 27 Dec 2011, at 17:52, Paul Hopewell wrote: > > HI Lynne, > Although WindowEyes may seem expensive it and other assistive technology products have a small market compared with mainstream software. Last time I looked the GWMicro team was about 20 strong and they all have to be paid. The cost of employing each person could be around 100 K dollars including costs like office space. to support this GWMicro has to make around 2 million dollars a year, which means they have to sell around 4000 copies of WindowEyes a year. Software pricing critically depends on sales volumes which will always be small for specialised areas like assistive technology. > Now to someone like Apple or even Microsoft 2 million dollars a year is a small sum which they can easily absorb. the only way to get affordable assistive technology is for it to be included in mainstream products like Apple or for it to b provided in a not for profit way like NVDA and Thunder. The latter though cannot bring sufficient resources to bear to keep their offerings fully up to date with the ever changing user environment. > So lets not be too harsh on GWMicro.! > Best regards.... > > Paul Hopewell > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- From lynne at mac-access.net Wed Dec 28 14:36:09 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2011 14:36:09 +0000 Subject: Apple Versus Microsoft; [Screen-Readers] In-Reply-To: <398EE1EC-941B-43FC-808D-435DF03F4CEC@internode.on.net> References: <34C6E92C-EFBB-4F69-80BE-1210AADB5BFC@mac-access.net> <785B937A-7CBE-4FE1-98E6-ECB0372B3BDA@internode.on.net> <31CA5661-1A9B-4848-8C9E-861D1FE49826@mac-access.net> <4EF6249E.2020604@internode.on.net> <961E6202-CF5E-4FFA-8062-BD6FB739838A@mac-access.net> <90F2B80E-4FDE-49FE-A310-FF3DA966CCA7@softcon.com> <4EF8C9E9.9040608@internode.on.net> <0C2516AA-6B12-4DDC-85E6-BF2F00B47B5B@mac-access.net> <2AAAC162-7044-4E57-BFCA-19738C3888EE@softcon.com> <373C49EE-740B-47D0-944F-C052533434DB@mac-access.net> <729FF942-EFEE-451E-82C3-45A98036827E@hopewell.org.uk> <398EE1EC-941B-43FC-808D-435DF03F4CEC@internode.on.net> Message-ID: <89BF0FE7-4F3E-48EA-9420-0409A42187DA@mac-access.net> Hello Dane As for what does Apple have to do with Window-Eyes, that's where you are twisting my words to suit your own meaning. I simply made the comment that if Apple could incorporate accessibility into its platforms, (in the plural), then why can't Microsoft do the dame; and I'm not talking about Narrator which, as we all know, is pathetic. I'm not, as you seem to be implying, drawing comparisons between GW Micro and Apple; that would be totally erroneous since the two are very different entities. My comparison was between Apple and Microsoft. I never for a second stated that Apple was sun-shining-out-of-ass! I'm well aware of the accessibility limitations for those who, for whatever reason, are pressured or simply afraid not to move from Microsoft's formats. Some people have work commitments and I above all understand that. I'm an employer myself and although not the same kind of issues, my employees have to adhere to certain standards. All I said was that Apple has done a fine job of implementing accessibility. Yes, I know there's a long way to go; that's why people such as my other half work with Apple to try and get us to the point where we want to be; the point where we can say we have total access. As for my so-called "bold" claim" about Apples platforms becoming more popular, it's not "bold" at all, it's simply fact. I did not, if you read what I said properly, make the comment that more and more blind people are using Apple's computers. I really didn't say that. Here is a quote from the relevant portion of my message: > ? I'm not in a position to argue the exact stats and figures, so I wouldn't like to in any way contradict your quotes. However, Apple has shown what's possible if the developer is prepared to play ball, so to speak. The number of vision impaired people using their products is rising rapidly; even Freedom Scientific's own vice president is an iPhone user I believe. So although I see your point, I really think it's a case of milking the customer for all they can get. > Now, you'll see that what I referred too was Apple's Products, not Apple's "Computers"; there's a huge difference. Lynne On 27 Dec 2011, at 20:15, Dane Trethowan wrote: And what's Apple got to do with Window-Eyes? We're talking too completely different scenarios here it seems. Apple are developing their computers, their operating system and so on thus its easier for the company to incorporate such useful features such as a Screen Reading solution, a magnifier or whatever else into an operating system as they've done. Gw Micro, Freedom Scientific and the rest are third party developers who have to work within the framework as set down by Microsoft so I would imagine that this restriction hampers developers somewhat thus extra time has to be spent on the development of a Screen reading system, not to mention the fact that accessibility for the Windows operating system itself seems to be going backwards these days and that's not a fault of the Screen Reader developers rather its a fault of Microsoft. As for more and more blind people using Apple Computers with Voiceover? That's a very bold claim and I've certainly seen no data to support it, Apple still have quite a long way to go and I'm sure they'll get there eventually, look at how far JFW has come over 10 years. Fact is that integration between a Mac and Windows is still a problem in some areas and a classic example of this can be found with Microsoft Office documents, the whole Microsoft suite is accessible under windows and one could say - for better or for worse - that the Microsoft Office suite is a standard so far so good. When you come to using a Microsoft Office document on a Mac - particularly if you're using Voiceover - then its an entirely different and sometimes complex ball game. Microsoft Office isn't accessible on the Mac so that's the first major handicap so the only solutions from here are third party applications and some are more successful with Microsoft Office files than others, as I understand it Nisus Writer Pro for example handles Microsoft Word Documents than does Pages but neither handle them with 100% accuracy. From lynne at mac-access.net Wed Dec 28 16:55:20 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2011 16:55:20 +0000 Subject: Thunderbird; looks like it's been discontinued! Message-ID: Hello everybody Unless they're doing something to the client and have removed it temporarily from the site, it looks as though Mozilla may have discontinued Thunderbird email client. I see FireFox 9 for Windows, Linux and Mac, but no sign at all of Thunderbird. Can anybody shed any light? Maybe, although hopefully not, the Thunderbird is no longer "Go"! Lynne From lynne at mac-access.net Wed Dec 28 16:58:19 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2011 16:58:19 +0000 Subject: Thunderbird; please disregard Message-ID: OK, this is very odd. IE9 for Windows isn't showing me the Thunderbird links on the Mozilla site, but Safari 5.2 on Mac OS X is displaying it just fine. Go figure. Lynne From roger.firman at btinternet.com Wed Dec 28 17:04:57 2011 From: roger.firman at btinternet.com (Roger Firman) Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2011 17:04:57 -0000 Subject: Thunderbird; please disregard In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Lynne, I have just downloaded it using IE8. Let me know if you need it or not. Kind regards, Roger. From lynne at mac-access.net Wed Dec 28 17:13:42 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2011 17:13:42 +0000 Subject: Thunderbird; please disregard In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Roger On 28 Dec 2011, at 17:04, Roger Firman wrote: ? I have just downloaded it using IE8. Let me know if you need it or not. Thanks but I got it with Safari. It's very very odd because IE9 simply isn't showing me the Thunderbird link. I'm not saying it won't work for others; before any smart person starts arguing, (and I don't mean you Roger). But I've cleared my browser cache, checked everything I can think of; but the link isn't displaying. I'm seeing the FF link just fine, the only one that's missing is the Thunderbird link. Not to worry; I got it. Thanks for checking though Roger. Lynne From grtdane at internode.on.net Wed Dec 28 17:33:55 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2011 04:33:55 +1100 Subject: Apple Versus Microsoft; [Screen-Readers] In-Reply-To: <89BF0FE7-4F3E-48EA-9420-0409A42187DA@mac-access.net> References: <34C6E92C-EFBB-4F69-80BE-1210AADB5BFC@mac-access.net> <785B937A-7CBE-4FE1-98E6-ECB0372B3BDA@internode.on.net> <31CA5661-1A9B-4848-8C9E-861D1FE49826@mac-access.net> <4EF6249E.2020604@internode.on.net> <961E6202-CF5E-4FFA-8062-BD6FB739838A@mac-access.net> <90F2B80E-4FDE-49FE-A310-FF3DA966CCA7@softcon.com> <4EF8C9E9.9040608@internode.on.net> <0C2516AA-6B12-4DDC-85E6-BF2F00B47B5B@mac-access.net> <2AAAC162-7044-4E57-BFCA-19738C3888EE@softcon.com> <373C49EE-740B-47D0-944F-C052533434DB@mac-access.net> <729FF942-EFEE-451E-82C3-45A98036827E@hopewell.org.uk> <398EE1EC-941B-43FC-808D-435DF03F4CEC@internode.on.net> <89BF0FE7-4F3E-48EA-9420-0409A42187DA@m ac-access.net> Message-ID: Again I'm going to have to agree to disagree with you regarding popularity of Apple systems with blind people, certainly here in Australia at the moment at any rate, and I've stated the reasons why. As for Microsoft Narrator? Well under Windows 7 its certainly better than it had been and yep, poor accessibility is something that Microsoft have managed to get away with for far too long. On 29/12/2011, at 1:36 AM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: > Hello Dane > > As for what does Apple have to do with Window-Eyes, that's where you are twisting my words to suit your own meaning. I simply made the comment that if Apple could incorporate accessibility into its platforms, (in the plural), then why can't Microsoft do the dame; and I'm not talking about Narrator which, as we all know, is pathetic. I'm not, as you seem to be implying, drawing comparisons between GW Micro and Apple; that would be totally erroneous since the two are very different entities. My comparison was between Apple and Microsoft. > > I never for a second stated that Apple was sun-shining-out-of-ass! I'm well aware of the accessibility limitations for those who, for whatever reason, are pressured or simply afraid not to move from Microsoft's formats. Some people have work commitments and I above all understand that. I'm an employer myself and although not the same kind of issues, my employees have to adhere to certain standards. All I said was that Apple has done a fine job of implementing accessibility. Yes, I know there's a long way to go; that's why people such as my other half work with Apple to try and get us to the point where we want to be; the point where we can say we have total access. > > As for my so-called "bold" claim" about Apples platforms becoming more popular, it's not "bold" at all, it's simply fact. I did not, if you read what I said properly, make the comment that more and more blind people are using Apple's computers. I really didn't say that. Here is a quote from the relevant portion of my message: > > > >> ? I'm not in a position to argue the exact stats and figures, so I wouldn't like to in any way contradict your quotes. However, Apple has shown what's possible if the developer is prepared to play ball, so to speak. The number of vision impaired people using their products is rising rapidly; even Freedom Scientific's own vice president is an iPhone user I believe. So although I see your point, I really think it's a case of milking the customer for all they can get. >> > > > Now, you'll see that what I referred too was Apple's Products, not Apple's "Computers"; there's a huge difference. > > Lynne > > On 27 Dec 2011, at 20:15, Dane Trethowan wrote: > > And what's Apple got to do with Window-Eyes? > > We're talking too completely different scenarios here it seems. > > Apple are developing their computers, their operating system and so on thus its easier for the company to incorporate such useful features such as a Screen Reading solution, a magnifier or whatever else into an operating system as they've done. > > Gw Micro, Freedom Scientific and the rest are third party developers who have to work within the framework as set down by Microsoft so I would imagine that this restriction hampers developers somewhat thus extra time has to be spent on the development of a Screen reading system, not to mention the fact that accessibility for the Windows operating system itself seems to be going backwards these days and that's not a fault of the Screen Reader developers rather its a fault of Microsoft. > > As for more and more blind people using Apple Computers with Voiceover? That's a very bold claim and I've certainly seen no data to support it, Apple still have quite a long way to go and I'm sure they'll get there eventually, look at how far JFW has come over 10 years. > > Fact is that integration between a Mac and Windows is still a problem in some areas and a classic example of this can be found with Microsoft Office documents, the whole Microsoft suite is accessible under windows and one could say - for better or for worse - that the Microsoft Office suite is a standard so far so good. > > When you come to using a Microsoft Office document on a Mac - particularly if you're using Voiceover - then its an entirely different and sometimes complex ball game. > > Microsoft Office isn't accessible on the Mac so that's the first major handicap so the only solutions from here are third party applications and some are more successful with Microsoft Office files than others, as I understand it Nisus Writer Pro for example handles Microsoft Word Documents than does Pages but neither handle them with 100% accuracy. > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- From grtdane at internode.on.net Wed Dec 28 17:35:35 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2011 04:35:35 +1100 Subject: Thunderbird; looks like it's been discontinued! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2A6739FF-4574-4FC6-8680-EB0C3ACD2076@internode.on.net> I'm not heard anything to suggest this, more important things to be worried about to be quite honest . On 29/12/2011, at 3:55 AM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: > Hello everybody > > Unless they're doing something to the client and have removed it temporarily from the site, it looks as though Mozilla may have discontinued Thunderbird email client. I see FireFox 9 for Windows, Linux and Mac, but no sign at all of Thunderbird. Can anybody shed any light? Maybe, although hopefully not, the Thunderbird is no longer "Go"! > > Lynne > > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- From roger.firman at btinternet.com Wed Dec 28 18:06:06 2011 From: roger.firman at btinternet.com (Roger Firman) Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2011 18:06:06 -0000 Subject: Thunderbird; please disregard In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hello Lynne, Glad you have got the software. It sounds very strange about not getting that particular link but I wonder why it happened? Anyway, hope it works all right. Roger. From grtdane at internode.on.net Wed Dec 28 18:32:23 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2011 05:32:23 +1100 Subject: IOS devices help disabled Message-ID: <95D540BA-E970-4258-8956-603B4409E8E3@internode.on.net> Hi! I was pleasantly surprised to discover that our local Newspapers Mac column devoted this weeks edition to many facilities available to disabled people in the latest version of IOS and on the iPhone 4S, I really hope that the newspaper consider putting this content online as its a damn good read and I especially recommend this weeks "Mac Man" column for anyone working in the field of teaching disabled people to use devices, helping them gain independence etc, a most worthwhile read. The article covers various aspects of accessibility in Apple IOS including functions/features for totally blind, visually impaired, hearing impaired and those who have trouble tapping the screen. I found one of the clams in the article particularly interesting, the article claims that the quality of "Face Time" communication is so good that - on an iPad - a person who was totally deaf was very easily able to "Lip Read" the person at the other end, this is probably trivial to some people but it sounds absolutely amazing to me. From lynne at mac-access.net Wed Dec 28 19:10:58 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2011 19:10:58 +0000 Subject: USB To Parallel Cable Still Not Working Message-ID: <6E4185A5-7CA6-4371-9F3E-F8BC3C29E359@mac-access.net> Hello everybody OK, I've followed all of the procedures regarding the installation of the USB to Parallel cable I bought. No luck I'm afraid. The adapter is supposed to transparently convert the data if you assign it a parallel port. But unfortunately in the Windows device manager it isn't even showing up as associated with any ports if I plug in and power up the embosser/printer. The only place where the device is visible in Windows 7 SP1 is in Control Panel>Device Manager>USB Host Controllers. There are absolutely no ports, Comm & LPT, anywhere on the machines, not a single one. The properties of the device have only 3 tabs; General, Driver and Details. The General tab and the details tab only contain a description of the device, as in anything you care to enter. The Driver tab contains a driver number and it's dated 2006. So We are now totally stumped. The only option left to us now is to plug it into a Mac, see if it's recognised and if so, whether we can print to it. If so, maybe we can find an embosser package for the Mac; I think Index does one. But, if anybody else can suggest anything else for Windows I'd be grateful; as both of us find Duxberry the most efficient transcription tool. I just don't want to mess around with transcriptions which require about 6 step to complete, if I can avoid it. DBT is still the best translation and embossing tool I have ever tried; and I know my way around it. Lynne From lynne at mac-access.net Wed Dec 28 19:27:37 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2011 19:27:37 +0000 Subject: Apple Versus Microsoft; [Screen-Readers] In-Reply-To: References: <34C6E92C-EFBB-4F69-80BE-1210AADB5BFC@mac-access.net> <785B937A-7CBE-4FE1-98E6-ECB0372B3BDA@internode.on.net> <31CA5661-1A9B-4848-8C9E-861D1FE49826@mac-access.net> <4EF6249E.2020604@internode.on.net> <961E6202-CF5E-4FFA-8062-BD6FB739838A@mac-access.net> <90F2B80E-4FDE-49FE-A310-FF3DA966CCA7@softcon.com> <4EF8C9E9.9040608@internode.on.net> <0C2516AA-6B12-4DDC-85E6-BF2F00B47B5B@mac-access.net> <2AAAC162-7044-4E57-BFCA-19738C3888EE@softcon.com> <373C49EE-740B-47D0-944F-C052533434DB@mac-access.net> <729FF942-EFEE-451E-82C3-45A98036827E@hopewell.org.uk> <398EE1EC-941B-43FC-808D-435DF03F4CEC@internode.on.net> <89BF0FE7-4F3E-48EA-9420-0409A42187DA@m ac-access.net> Message-ID: <561D8422-180F-4C47-8067-E0F5082BAADF@mac-access.net> Hello Dane Alright; just to be clear. I'm talking about all Apple devices; iPhones, iPads, iPods and their notebooks and desktop computers. Judging by the influx of Mac Access members we're getting, many of them from down-under, it would seem that popularity is increasing rapidly. But I'm not in possession of any statistical information so I won't bother to push this further. All I can say is this, and I'm sorry that you're not interested in the views or comments of anybody who happens to have vision, as you indicated to me privately earlier this week. Whoever does the right thing and promotes accessibility at a reasonable price, and at the moment I still think that "someone" is Apple, it has to be a good thing. I'm all for those of you less fortunate than myself having just as good accessibility as I enjoy. Believe it or not; I'm actually passionate about this and it's for that reason that Gordon and I, mainly on my suggestion I should add, subscribe to both MSDN and Apple Developer networks programmes, not just one of them but all of them. We want to do good for the wider community and it's much more than just getting to play with the latest and greatest I can assure you. I won't go further because I can't. But all the same, don't anybody dare please ever suggest that we/I/Gordon are committed totally to betterment of accessibility. Lynne On 28 Dec 2011, at 17:33, Dane Trethowan wrote: Again I'm going to have to agree to disagree with you regarding popularity of Apple systems with blind people, certainly here in Australia at the moment at any rate, and I've stated the reasons why. As for Microsoft Narrator? Well under Windows 7 its certainly better than it had been and yep, poor accessibility is something that Microsoft have managed to get away with for far too long. From lynne at mac-access.net Wed Dec 28 19:31:05 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2011 19:31:05 +0000 Subject: Thunderbird; please disregard In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20E289D7-DDDC-4DC1-B95F-D3C7218C196A@mac-access.net> Hello Roger I've tried it since, and even manually gone in there and cleaned out all caches on our DNS server to be sure; but no joy. I see it on the Mac; which tells me that it's a Windows-specific problem. But I'm absolutely stumped as to why. Lynne On 28 Dec 2011, at 18:06, Roger Firman wrote: Glad you have got the software. It sounds very strange about not getting that particular link but I wonder why it happened? Anyway, hope it works all right. From chris.hallsworth at techno-chat.net Wed Dec 28 19:40:56 2011 From: chris.hallsworth at techno-chat.net (chris hallsworth) Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2011 19:40:56 +0000 Subject: Thunderbird; looks like it's been discontinued! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4EFB70C8.5010608@techno-chat.net> Lol I love that at the end well I got the latest Thunderbird via a Ninite installer generated at www.ninite.com/thunderbird. Ninite is a Windows and Linux only service where you can generate installers that quietly and installs and even updates applications you specified on the website and says no to toolbars or other forms of junk. On 28/12/2011 16:55, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: > Hello everybody > > Unless they're doing something to the client and have removed it temporarily from the site, it looks as though Mozilla may have discontinued Thunderbird email client. I see FireFox 9 for Windows, Linux and Mac, but no sign at all of Thunderbird. Can anybody shed any light? Maybe, although hopefully not, the Thunderbird is no longer "Go"! > > Lynne > > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- > From grtdane at internode.on.net Wed Dec 28 19:42:52 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane trethowan) Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2011 06:42:52 +1100 Subject: Apple Versus Microsoft; [Screen-Readers] In-Reply-To: <561D8422-180F-4C47-8067-E0F5082BAADF@mac-access.net> References: <34C6E92C-EFBB-4F69-80BE-1210AADB5BFC@mac-access.net> <31CA5661-1A9B-4848-8C9E-861D1FE49826@mac-access.net> <4EF6249E.2020604@internode.on.net> <961E6202-CF5E-4FFA-8062-BD6FB739838A@mac-access.net> <90F2B80E-4FDE-49FE-A310-FF3DA966CCA7@softcon.com> <4EF8C9E9.9040608@internode.on.net> <0C2516AA-6B12-4DDC-85E6-BF2F00B47B5B@mac-access.net> <2AAAC162-7044-4E57-BFCA-19738C3888EE@softcon.com> <373C49EE-740B-47D0-944F-C052533434DB@mac-access.net> <729FF942-EFEE-451E-82C3-45A98036827E@hopewell.org.uk> <398EE1EC-941B-43FC-808D-435DF03F4CEC@internode.on.net> <89BF0FE7-4F3E-48EA-9420-0409A42187DA@m ac-access.net> <561D8422-180F-4C47-8067-E0F5082BAADF@mac-access.net> Message-ID: <4EFB713C.608@internode.on.net> No doubt about it that - at the present - IOS devices are incredibly popular with blind people however whether the status quo remains will be the interesting point given that accessibility to Android technology is improving at an alarming rate! thanks to both third party developers and Google. On 29/12/2011 6:27 AM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:I have encountered ignorance on behalf of technology dealers when it comes to IOS, for example the claim is made to clients that an IOS device cannot be "Typed upon", this of course is partly true as an IOS device doesn't come equipped with a qtraditional qwerty keyboard but one can be purchased easily enough, you can even use a standard USB keyboard if you so desire if you buy the "camera kit" and its this lack of information that that hinders the growth of Apple Products. On the other hand technology dealers do have some very balid points, I spoke of the problems with Microsoft Office for example. I'm told another area of concern is magnification and I can't really comment here as I don't need to use it, the word is that Apple have only partly solved the problem for those who require magnification. There's a product for Windows called Zoomtext which not only magnifies the screen but it also reformats documents etc to make them easier for people with low version to read. Whether Zoomtext is a complete waste of time or whether something similar to Zoomtext exists on the Mac I don't know, I'm only echoing comments given to me by people who are heavily involved in accessible technology and products for the blind and visually impaired. I have offered an invitation to those concerned to join this list in the hope that they will contribute to the discussion. > Hello Dane > > Alright; just to be clear. I'm talking about all Apple devices; iPhones, iPads, iPods and their notebooks and desktop computers. Judging by the influx of Mac Access members we're getting, many of them from down-under, it would seem that popularity is increasing rapidly. But I'm not in possession of any statistical information so I won't bother to push this further. All I can say is this, and I'm sorry that you're not interested in the views or comments of anybody who happens to have vision, as you indicated to me privately earlier this week. Whoever does the right thing and promotes accessibility at a reasonable price, and at the moment I still think that "someone" is Apple, it has to be a good thing. I'm all for those of you less fortunate than myself having just as good accessibility as I enjoy. Believe it or not; I'm actually passionate about this and it's for that reason that Gordon and I, mainly on my suggestion I should add, subscribe to both MSDN and Apple Developer ne > tworks programmes, not just one of them but all of them. We want to do good for the wider community and it's much more than just getting to play with the latest and greatest I can assure you. I won't go further because I can't. But all the same, don't anybody dare please ever suggest that we/I/Gordon are committed totally to betterment of accessibility. > > Lynne > > > On 28 Dec 2011, at 17:33, Dane Trethowan wrote: > > Again I'm going to have to agree to disagree with you regarding popularity of Apple systems with blind people, certainly here in Australia at the moment at any rate, and I've stated the reasons why. > > As for Microsoft Narrator? Well under Windows 7 its certainly better than it had been and yep, poor accessibility is something that Microsoft have managed to get away with for far too long. > > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- -- sent from my HP Powerhouse Notebook. From grtdane at internode.on.net Wed Dec 28 19:44:21 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane trethowan) Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2011 06:44:21 +1100 Subject: Thunderbird; looks like it's been discontinued! In-Reply-To: <4EFB70C8.5010608@techno-chat.net> References: <4EFB70C8.5010608@techno-chat.net> Message-ID: <4EFB7195.3090208@internode.on.net> thunderbird was updated recently, in the last wfortnight at least, some people just like making Mountains out of Mole hills , here's to Thudnerbird's future and the future of open source software. On 29/12/2011 6:40 AM, chris hallsworth wrote: > Lol I love that at the end well I got the latest Thunderbird via a > Ninite installer generated at www.ninite.com/thunderbird. Ninite is a > Windows and Linux only service where you can generate installers that > quietly and installs and even updates applications you specified on > the website and says no to toolbars or other forms of junk. > > On 28/12/2011 16:55, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: >> Hello everybody >> >> Unless they're doing something to the client and have removed it >> temporarily from the site, it looks as though Mozilla may have >> discontinued Thunderbird email client. I see FireFox 9 for Windows, >> Linux and Mac, but no sign at all of Thunderbird. Can anybody shed >> any light? Maybe, although hopefully not, the Thunderbird is no >> longer "Go"! >> >> Lynne >> >> >> >> ======================================= >> >> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, >> virus and worm-free >> >> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's >> dedicated web pages located at >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat >> >> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat >> group at either of the following websites: >> >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html >> >> Or: >> >> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: >> >> >> --------------------------------------- >> > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, > virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's > dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat > group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- -- sent from my HP Powerhouse Notebook. From mstores at indiana.edu Wed Dec 28 21:10:44 2011 From: mstores at indiana.edu (Mary Stores) Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2011 16:10:44 -0500 Subject: Apple Versus Microsoft; [Screen-Readers] In-Reply-To: <4EFB713C.608@internode.on.net> References: <34C6E92C-EFBB-4F69-80BE-1210AADB5BFC@mac-access.net> <31CA5661-1A9B-4848-8C9E-861D1FE49826@mac-access.net> <4EF6249E.2020604@internode.on.net> <961E6202-CF5E-4FFA-8062-BD6FB739838A@mac-access.net> <90F2B80E-4FDE-49FE-A310-FF3DA966CCA7@softcon.com> <4EF8C9E9.9040608@internode.on.net> <0C2516AA-6B12-4DDC-85E6-BF2F00B47B5B@mac-access.net> <2AAAC162-7044-4E57-BFCA-19738C3888EE@softcon.com> <373C49EE-740B-47D0-944F-C052533434DB@mac-access.net> <729FF942-EFEE-451E-82C3-45A98036827E@hopewell.org.uk> <398EE1EC-941B-43FC-808D-435DF03F4CEC@internode.on.net> <89BF0FE7-4F3E-48EA-9420-0409A42187DA@m ac-access.net> <561D8422-180F-4C47-8067-E0F5082BAADF@mac-access.net> <4EFB713C.608@internode.on.net> Message-ID: <20111228161044.3yhn7se12coow400@webmail.iu.edu> Well, there is ZoomText, and also Drangon Naturally Speaking. Those are both great AT products that do well with Windows, but many of our students have reported frustrations on the mac to the point of returning the programs. Firefox also have some very good web accessibility evaluation tools that have been developed recently. But the term "versus," ... I have to say I don't like it. They are two different OS's and there are different ways of navigating both. Regarding Android, I do hope Google does a better job. The got booed off the stage, so to speak, at last year's CSUN conference. Hopefully that has caused them to ear alarm bells, but several of my friends who have gotten Android phones have said they are very frustrated with their purchase. Mary From grtdane at internode.on.net Wed Dec 28 21:19:27 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2011 08:19:27 +1100 Subject: Apple Versus Microsoft; [Screen-Readers] In-Reply-To: <20111228161044.3yhn7se12coow400@webmail.iu.edu> References: <34C6E92C-EFBB-4F69-80BE-1210AADB5BFC@mac-access.net> <4EF6249E.2020604@internode.on.net> <961E6202-CF5E-4FFA-8062-BD6FB739838A@mac-access.net> <90F2B80E-4FDE-49FE-A310-FF3DA966CCA7@softcon.com> <4EF8C9E9.9040608@internode.on.net> <0C2516AA-6B12-4DDC-85E6-BF2F00B47B5B@mac-access.net> <2AAAC162-7044-4E57-BFCA-19738C3888EE@softcon.com> <373C49EE-740B-47D0-944F-C052533434DB@mac-access.net> <729FF942-EFEE-451E-82C3-45A98036827E@hopewell.org.uk> <398EE1EC-941B-43FC-808D-435DF03F4CEC@internode.on.net> <89BF0FE7-4F3E-48EA-9420-0409A42187DA@m ac-access.net> <561D8422-180F-4C47-8067-E0F5082BAADF@mac-access.net> <4EFB713C.608@internode.on.net> <20111228161044.3yhn7se12coow400@webmail.iu.edu> Message-ID: <4EFB87DF.9040102@internode.on.net> Thank you Mary. Your points regarding Apple VS Microsoft are well noted, actually what you said was exactly what I tried to say in a reply earlier in this thread. Yes, accessibility to Googles Android OS was a disappointment but its getting better, IceCream Sandwich has come along way and the Code Factory have developed their own apps to tackle the problem, as I said a few days ago the Code Factory suite is being given away with Android phones from AT&T. I know a user of a HTC Android Phone, I've mentioned this list to him and I'm hoping that he will see fit to subscribe and share his experiences of the Phone and the apps with us. Firefox has some excellent web accessibility add-ons one can install including the brilliant Webvusum, I hope I spelt that correctly. On 29/12/2011 8:10 AM, Mary Stores wrote: > Well, there is ZoomText, and also Drangon Naturally Speaking. Those > are both great AT products that do well with Windows, but many of our > students have reported frustrations on the mac to the point of > returning the programs. > > Firefox also have some very good web accessibility evaluation tools > that have been developed recently. > > But the term "versus," ... I have to say I don't like it. They are two > different OS's and there are different ways of navigating both. > > Regarding Android, I do hope Google does a better job. The got booed > off the stage, so to speak, at last year's CSUN conference. Hopefully > that has caused them to ear alarm bells, but several of my friends who > have gotten Android phones have said they are very frustrated with > their purchase. > > Mary > > > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, > virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's > dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat > group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- -- Dane Trethowan From Melton Victoria Australia skype callto:grtdane12 MSN: grtdane at dane-trethowan.net From roger.firman at btinternet.com Wed Dec 28 22:24:00 2011 From: roger.firman at btinternet.com (Roger Firman) Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2011 22:24:00 -0000 Subject: USB To Parallel Cable Still Not Working In-Reply-To: <6E4185A5-7CA6-4371-9F3E-F8BC3C29E359@mac-access.net> Message-ID: Hello Lynne, I'm trying to cast my mind back to a point where I had a conversation with someone about how to get a parallel device to work with a USB cable. Is your computer picking up other items if you plug them in in a similar way? I ask only that I had an issue a few months ago where my PC wasn't responding to devices being plugged in and a change had to be made somewhere in the operating system to ensure this happened again. The other point I was wondering about is, and I am assuming you have been, that the conversion is from parallel to USB rather than a cable which converts the other way; just a thought only. Is your cable going direct from the braille embosser to the USB port i.e. one end plugging into the embosser, the other to the relevant USB port, rather than there being an extension, as it were to an already-existing cable? Kind regards, Roger. From d.griffith at btinternet.com Wed Dec 28 22:53:24 2011 From: d.griffith at btinternet.com (David Griffith) Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2011 22:53:24 -0000 Subject: Android In-Reply-To: <20111228161044.3yhn7se12coow400@webmail.iu.edu> References: <34C6E92C-EFBB-4F69-80BE-1210AADB5BFC@mac-access.net><31CA5661-1A9B-4848-8C9E-861D1FE49826@mac-access.net><4EF6249E.2020604@internode.on.net><961E6202-CF5E-4FFA-8062-BD6FB739838A@mac-access.net><90F2B80E-4FDE-49FE-A310-FF3DA966CCA7@softcon.com><4EF8C9E9.9040608@internode.on.net><0C2516AA-6B12-4DDC-85E6-BF2F00B47B5B@mac-access.net><2AAAC162-7044-4E57-BFCA-19738C3888EE@softcon.com><373C49EE-740B-47D0-944F-C052533434DB@mac-access.net><729FF942-EFEE-451E-82C3-45A98036827E@hopewell.org.uk><398EE1EC-941B-43FC-808D-435DF03F4CEC@internode.on.net><89BF0FE7-4F3E-48EA-9420-0409A42187DA@m ac-access.net><561D8422-180F-4C47-8067-E0F5082BAADF@mac-access.net><4EFB713C.608@internode.on.net> <20111228161044.3yhn7se12c oow400@webmail.iu.ed u> Message-ID: <3A2AD6778B61499899E45E9A4C2FABA4@acer4d025c48b8> To be a good boy I have changed the subject line to reflect the change in discussion. Anyway in response to the discussion I can provide some limited feedback. I have just bought a Samsung Galaxy Europa for ?69 from virgin Pay as you go. I have also purchased mobile accessibility for ?53. code Factory say I can install this on any other Android phone I purchase in the future. I reasoned that better access Android phones would emerge with ice Cream Sandwich next year but this was a cheaper option for me now to put my toe into the water so to speak. This pone was purchased really as a stop gap, whilst these better accessible options emerge next year. . . . I did look at an I-Phone but it was simply out of my budget for the time being. The Imac is still burning a hole in my wallet. I reasoned that this relatively low cost entry would provide me with some experience of using a touch screen phone for a lower outlay. I am actually interested less in using it as a phone but more in using free GPS aps and Google goggles for on the fly OCR and product and place recognition. There is also a dictate function provided by mobile Accessibility and some other dictation apps I understand. Many of these have versions on the I-Phone as well I believe so it is a cheaper way of me exploring these apps. I think there is also the free IRIS app which is the cheeky backwards spelt android version of SIRI. I have also heard that there are good free web radio apps and music players available for the android. The fact that you do not need to synchronise and you can simply hook the phone up as USB drive to copy content also appealed to me. So far I can report that setting up access is not at all straightforward and there is a learning curve with the phone. However this is not the case with the mobile accessibility suite of programs which are all accessible and very easy to use. The programs behave in a similar way to the Nokia phone apps with talks. I am definitely finding the on screen keyboard and touch screen an access challenge. My next purchase will probably be a Bluetooth keypad to use with the phone. Despite using the on screen keyboard for text and number input the Samsung Galaxy Europa has very tactile buttons in other ways. Far more tactile than for example my N86 Nokia. There is a big centre home button surrounded by a 4 way cursor ring. There is a search, menu, back and power off buttons. All these buttons are multifunction. There is also a volume button which also has multiple functions associated with it. For example holding the volume key in will turn the on screen Mobile accessibility keyboard on. In no way yet would this phone replace my Nokia N86 with talks as making phone calls with this older phone is still far more efficient at the moment. The Samsung is low cost enough for me to maintain both options and the Samsung is not a weighty device so it is no hardship slipping it into a pocket or bag. I have a lot of writing to do at the moment so it is likely that my exploration of this device will be quite slow. However I have learnt a few things including the need to install the Ideal Accessibility app to get you start with downloading all the programs you will need for ideal accessibility. I will keep people posted if they are in interested. David Griffith -----Original Message----- From: techno-chat-bounces at techno-chat.net [mailto:techno-chat-bounces at techno-chat.net] On Behalf Of Mary Stores Sent: 28 December 2011 21:11 To: techno-chat at techno-chat.net Subject: Re: Apple Versus Microsoft; [Screen-Readers] Well, there is ZoomText, and also Drangon Naturally Speaking. Those are both great AT products that do well with Windows, but many of our students have reported frustrations on the mac to the point of returning the programs. Firefox also have some very good web accessibility evaluation tools that have been developed recently. But the term "versus," ... I have to say I don't like it. They are two different OS's and there are different ways of navigating both. Regarding Android, I do hope Google does a better job. The got booed off the stage, so to speak, at last year's CSUN conference. Hopefully that has caused them to ear alarm bells, but several of my friends who have gotten Android phones have said they are very frustrated with their purchase. Mary ======================================= The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html Or: you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: --------------------------------------- From grtdane at internode.on.net Wed Dec 28 23:05:30 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2011 10:05:30 +1100 Subject: Android In-Reply-To: <3A2AD6778B61499899E45E9A4C2FABA4@acer4d025c48b8> References: <34C6E92C-EFBB-4F69-80BE-1210AADB5BFC@mac-access.net><31CA5661-1A9B-4848-8C9E-861D1FE49826@mac-access.net><4EF6249E.2020604@internode.on.net><961E6202-CF5E-4FFA-8062-BD6FB739838A@mac-access.net><90F2B80E-4FDE-49FE-A310-FF3DA966CCA7@softcon.com><4EF8C9E9.9040608@internode.on.net><0C2516AA-6B12-4DDC-85E6-BF2F00B47B5B@mac-access.net><2AAAC162-7044-4E57-BFCA-19738C3888EE@softcon.com><373C49EE-740B-47D0-944F-C052533434DB@mac-access.net><729FF942-EFEE-451E-82C3-45A98036827E@hopewell.org.uk><398EE1EC-941B-43FC-808D-435DF03F4CEC@internode.on.net><89BF0FE7-4F3E-48EA-9420-0409A42187DA@m ac-access.net><561D8422-180F-4C47-8067-E0F5082BAADF@mac-access.net><4EFB713C.608@internode.on.net> <20111228161044.3yhn7se12c oow400@webmail.iu.ed u> <3A2AD6778B61499899E45E9A4C2FABA4@acer4d025c48b8> Message-ID: <13942D3B-5C20-4B0D-86A5-14C7AF98AC25@internode.on.net> Yep, please! keep us posted and I myself am very interested as a Samsung Galaxy product is exactly what I'm thinking of purchasing towards the end of next year as its supposed to be one of the best Android devices available right now. I see where you're coming from regarding your N86, I still have mine . You made the point about the Phone and the third party apps being cheap and I think this is going to be the very reason why we'll be seeing a lot of blind people taking up the option of a Samsung Galaxy or similar Android product with the Code Factory apps as part of the deal. The fact remains that more options exist for an Android user, as I pointed out earlier my friend Gary has a HTC which includes a small qwerty keyboard which would be a nice touch - pardon the pun - to a smart phone in my opinion. On 29/12/2011, at 9:53 AM, David Griffith wrote: > To be a good boy I have changed the subject line to reflect the change in > discussion. > Anyway in response to the discussion I can provide some limited feedback. > I have just bought a Samsung Galaxy Europa for ?69 from virgin Pay as you > go. I have also purchased mobile accessibility for ?53. code Factory say I > can install this on any other Android phone I purchase in the future. I > reasoned that better access Android phones would emerge with ice Cream > Sandwich next year but this was a cheaper option for me now to put my toe > into the water so to speak. This pone was purchased really as a stop gap, > whilst these better accessible options emerge next year. . . . > > I did look at an I-Phone but it was simply out of my budget for the time > being. The Imac is still burning a hole in my wallet. > I reasoned that this relatively low cost entry would provide me with some > experience of using a touch screen phone for a lower outlay. I am actually > interested less in using it as a phone but more in using free GPS aps and > Google goggles for on the fly OCR and product and place recognition. There > is also a dictate function provided by mobile Accessibility and some other > dictation apps I understand. Many of these have versions on the I-Phone as > well I believe so it is a cheaper way of me exploring these apps. I think > there is also the free IRIS app which is the cheeky backwards spelt android > version of SIRI. I have also heard that there are good free web radio apps > and music players available for the android. The fact that you do not need > to synchronise and you can simply hook the phone up as USB drive to copy > content also appealed to me. > > So far I can report that setting up access is not at all straightforward and > there is a learning curve with the phone. However this is not the case with > the mobile accessibility suite of programs which are all accessible and very > easy to use. The programs behave in a similar way to the Nokia phone apps > with talks. > I am definitely finding the on screen keyboard and touch screen an access > challenge. My next purchase will probably be a Bluetooth keypad to use with > the phone. Despite using the on screen keyboard for text and number input > the Samsung Galaxy Europa has very tactile buttons in other ways. Far more > tactile than for example my N86 Nokia. There is a big centre home button > surrounded by a 4 way cursor ring. There is a search, menu, back and power > off buttons. All these buttons are multifunction. There is also a volume > button which also has multiple functions associated with it. For example > holding the volume key in will turn the on screen Mobile accessibility > keyboard on. > > In no way yet would this phone replace my Nokia N86 with talks as making > phone calls with this older phone is still far more efficient at the moment. > The Samsung is low cost enough for me to maintain both options and the > Samsung is not a weighty device so it is no hardship slipping it into a > pocket or bag. > I have a lot of writing to do at the moment so it is likely that my > exploration of this device will be quite slow. > However I have learnt a few things including the need to install the Ideal > Accessibility app to get you start with downloading all the programs you > will need for ideal accessibility. > > I will keep people posted if they are in interested. > > David Griffith > > -----Original Message----- > From: techno-chat-bounces at techno-chat.net > [mailto:techno-chat-bounces at techno-chat.net] On Behalf Of Mary Stores > Sent: 28 December 2011 21:11 > To: techno-chat at techno-chat.net > Subject: Re: Apple Versus Microsoft; [Screen-Readers] > > Well, there is ZoomText, and also Drangon Naturally Speaking. Those are both > great AT products that do well with Windows, but many of our students have > reported frustrations on the mac to the point of returning the programs. > > Firefox also have some very good web accessibility evaluation tools that > have been developed recently. > > But the term "versus," ... I have to say I don't like it. They are two > different OS's and there are different ways of navigating both. > > Regarding Android, I do hope Google does a better job. The got booed off the > stage, so to speak, at last year's CSUN conference. Hopefully that has > caused them to ear alarm bells, but several of my friends who have gotten > Android phones have said they are very frustrated with their purchase. > > Mary > > > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus > and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web > pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at > either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- From lynne at mac-access.net Thu Dec 29 02:32:50 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2011 02:32:50 +0000 Subject: Blogging Message-ID: Hello everybody Gordon and I are having another horrible night; so instead of watching him try in vain to settle, we've both come downstairs to do bits of work on respective projects. However, one project in which we both have an interest is our blogs. I'm interested to know, if anybody can tell me, how other vision impaired people handle themes for their blogs. WordPress doesn't seem to be particularly conducive towards accessibility in its themes so I just wondered what others changed to makes their blogs more accessible. Any info greatly appreciated. Lynne From lynne at mac-access.net Thu Dec 29 04:37:49 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2011 04:37:49 +0000 Subject: Apple Versus Microsoft; [Screen-Readers] In-Reply-To: <20111228161044.3yhn7se12coow400@webmail.iu.edu> References: <34C6E92C-EFBB-4F69-80BE-1210AADB5BFC@mac-access.net> <31CA5661-1A9B-4848-8C9E-861D1FE49826@mac-access.net> <4EF6249E.2020604@internode.on.net> <961E6202-CF5E-4FFA-8062-BD6FB739838A@mac-access.net> <90F2B80E-4FDE-49FE-A310-FF3DA966CCA7@softcon.com> <4EF8C9E9.9040608@internode.on.net> <0C2516AA-6B12-4DDC-85E6-BF2F00B47B5B@mac-access.net> <2AAAC162-7044-4E57-BFCA-19738C3888EE@softcon.com> <373C49EE-740B-47D0-944F-C052533434DB@mac-access.net> <729FF942-EFEE-451E-82C3-45A98036827E@hopewell.org.uk> <398EE1EC-941B-43FC-808D-435DF03F4CEC@internode.on.net> <89BF0FE7-4F3E-48EA-9420-0409A42187DA@m ac-access.net> <561D8422-180F-4C47-8067-E0F5082BAADF@mac-access.net> <4EFB713C.608@internode.on.net> <2011122 8161044.3yhn7se12coow400@webmail.iu.edu> Message-ID: Hello Mary On 28 Dec 2011, at 21:10, Mary Stores wrote: ? Well, there is ZoomText, and also Drangon Naturally Speaking. Those are both great AT products that do well with Windows, but many of our students have reported frustrations on the mac to the point of returning the programs. I would never claim that Mac accessibility is perfect. But I would like to raise one point if I may. I am in regular correspondence with 3 people who teach VoiceOver and Mac OSX in general, professionally in 2 cases. All 3 of them have told me repeatedly that much of the problem with a lot of new Mac OSX users is an inability to "Let Go" of the concepts and practices of their Windows working experience. I'm not in any way criticising, because I am sure that it's a very difficult thing to do for some people. But the point I'm making here is that this very issue often seems to distort the picture because people assume that, because they can't master it, the operating system itself must be flawed. Conversely, however, the same is probably true of somebody used to Mac OSX and suddenly finding themselves plunged into the Windows environment. So what I'm saying here is that the fault isn't always necessarily the system itself, but user error or user lack of knowledge. ? Firefox also have some very good web accessibility evaluation tools that have been developed recently. Under Mac OSX I agree that the Mozilla platforms are frustratingly inaccessible. I do sometimes use FireFox on the Mac and the new functionalities are actually giving it a significant edge over Safari. Now, yes, Apple is a big part of that problem because they won't release the API's necessary to have developers of certain applications enable their products for the VoiceOver user. And yes, I'd be the first to agree that Apple is definitely selling the vision impaired short on that count. ? But the term "versus," ... I have to say I don't like it. They are two different OS's and there are different ways of navigating both. That was merely a figure of speech. The discussion at that time was a direct comparison between the two in terms of cost. Ergo, marketing philosophies made me believe, as I still do in that context, that the term "Versus" was quite appropriate. In the wider scheme of things, perhaps less so. ? Regarding Android, I do hope Google does a better job. The got booed off the stage, so to speak, at last year's CSUN conference. Hopefully that has caused them to ear alarm bells, but several of my friends who have gotten Android phones have said they are very frustrated with their purchase. As I understand it, there are several incarnations of Android. I've only actually had hands-on play with 2 phones, a Samsung and another whose brand name I honestly can't remember right now. Neither phone, as far as I am aware, was equipped with accessibility and although some of the apps onboard were quite visually appealing, I'm not sure how they would have worked with access technology. Now, before anybody jumps; I' not pre-guessing or judging here. I'm only commenting on what I saw; and my hypothesis could be way off the mark. Lynne From tsiegel at softcon.com Thu Dec 29 04:40:08 2011 From: tsiegel at softcon.com (Travis Siegel) Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2011 23:40:08 -0500 Subject: Blogging In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <57656BEA-DFAB-4D18-A142-42545750CBA7@softcon.com> Well, you asked. I wrote my blogging software from scratch. It has very few features, but I'm getting there, and since it was written from scratch, it has all the accessibility options I need. *grin* I don't really do much with css, though I think it's supported, haven't actually tried putting one in, so don't know for sure. However, there's not a lot I can customize, but again, there's not much need for me to do so either. I've offered my blogging software to others on this list before, but nobody took me up on it, so I'm guessing everyone else is using something better and more accessible. Guess that's all for now. :) (sorry, but you did ask) heh. From lynne at mac-access.net Thu Dec 29 04:44:59 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2011 04:44:59 +0000 Subject: USB To Parallel Cable Still Not Working In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6A177829-C59A-40D4-AF9D-400C7FE131C3@mac-access.net> Hello Roger On 28 Dec 2011, at 22:24, Roger Firman wrote: ? Is your computer picking up other items if you plug them in in a similar way? I ask only that I had an issue a few months ago where my PC wasn't responding to devices being plugged in and a change had to be made somewhere in the operating system to ensure this happened again. Yes, absolutely. Everything else we plug in works fine; with the exception of our Keyspan US19H serial to USB adapter. But in that instance I think it does indeed find a serial port. It is entirely possible also that we have the wrong cable for it. We're trying to use a strait through cable. But it won't play and we have no other way of testing the adapter. We possess no other serial devices. ? The other point I was wondering about is, and I am assuming you have been, that the conversion is from parallel to USB rather than a cable which converts the other way; just a thought only. Yes. The instructions say that it's parallel to USB, so that you can plug your old printers into a PC which doesn't come equipped with a parallel port. ? Is your cable going direct from the braille embosser to the USB port Yes, absolutely. ? i.e. one end plugging into the embosser, the other to the relevant USB port, rather than there being an extension, as it were to an already-existing cable? No extensions or other adapters in line. As I said, the device is listed as a USB Printer controller; but it isn't being allocated a parallel port. Thank you for your input; I'd be grateful for any other constructive suggestions that you or anybody else may have. Lynne From grtdane at internode.on.net Thu Dec 29 04:45:43 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2011 15:45:43 +1100 Subject: Apple Versus Microsoft; [Screen-Readers] In-Reply-To: References: <34C6E92C-EFBB-4F69-80BE-1210AADB5BFC@mac-access.net> <31CA5661-1A9B-4848-8C9E-861D1FE49826@mac-access.net> <4EF6249E.2020604@internode.on.net> <961E6202-CF5E-4FFA-8062-BD6FB739838A@mac-access.net> <90F2B80E-4FDE-49FE-A310-FF3DA966CCA7@softcon.com> <4EF8C9E9.9040608@internode.on.net> <0C2516AA-6B12-4DDC-85E6-BF2F00B47B5B@mac-access.net> <2AAAC162-7044-4E57-BFCA-19738C3888EE@softcon.com> <373C49EE-740B-47D0-944F-C052533434DB@mac-access.net> <729FF942-EFEE-451E-82C3-45A98036827E@hopewell.org.uk> <398EE1EC-941B-43FC-808D-435DF03F4CEC@internode.on.net> <89BF0FE7-4F3E-48EA-9420-0409A42187DA@m ac-access.net> <561D8422-180F-4C47-8067-E0F5082BAADF@mac-access.net> <4EFB713C.608@internode.on.net> <2011122 8161044.3yhn7se12coow400@webmail.iu.edu> Message-ID: Yep, I see where you're coming from in the below post, the points you rais have been responsible for some very negative reviews of the Mac and its operating system, I remember in one such case where around 90% of what was written was totally wrong and inaccurate, I respectfully wrote to the author pointing out the problems and suggested that he may wish to write a corrected version of the review after doing a little more research and naturally I gave the author several links he could follow, I've not heard of him since and that was quite a few years ago. I'm sure the same sort of scenario is true for many other devices, when transferring from one mobile phone to another for example. Fact is that humans are very routine type creatures . I appreciate that a person migrating from Windows to a Mac may naturally have some questions regarding the new environment and those questions should be answered but comparing Windows to OSX is like comparing a car to a bicycle, whilst they both move and get you from point A to point B they deliver you in different ways, hence whilst both OSX and Windows are operating systems which run computers they do that in different ways too! On 29/12/2011, at 3:37 PM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: > Hello Mary > > On 28 Dec 2011, at 21:10, Mary Stores wrote: > > ? Well, there is ZoomText, and also Drangon Naturally Speaking. Those are both great AT products that do well with Windows, but many of our students have reported frustrations on the mac to the point of returning the programs. > > I would never claim that Mac accessibility is perfect. But I would like to raise one point if I may. I am in regular correspondence with 3 people who teach VoiceOver and Mac OSX in general, professionally in 2 cases. All 3 of them have told me repeatedly that much of the problem with a lot of new Mac OSX users is an inability to "Let Go" of the concepts and practices of their Windows working experience. I'm not in any way criticising, because I am sure that it's a very difficult thing to do for some people. > > But the point I'm making here is that this very issue often seems to distort the picture because people assume that, because they can't master it, the operating system itself must be flawed. Conversely, however, the same is probably true of somebody used to Mac OSX and suddenly finding themselves plunged into the Windows environment. So what I'm saying here is that the fault isn't always necessarily the system itself, but user error or user lack of knowledge. > > ? Firefox also have some very good web accessibility evaluation tools that have been developed recently. > > Under Mac OSX I agree that the Mozilla platforms are frustratingly inaccessible. I do sometimes use FireFox on the Mac and the new functionalities are actually giving it a significant edge over Safari. Now, yes, Apple is a big part of that problem because they won't release the API's necessary to have developers of certain applications enable their products for the VoiceOver user. And yes, I'd be the first to agree that Apple is definitely selling the vision impaired short on that count. > > ? But the term "versus," ... I have to say I don't like it. They are two different OS's and there are different ways of navigating both. > > That was merely a figure of speech. The discussion at that time was a direct comparison between the two in terms of cost. Ergo, marketing philosophies made me believe, as I still do in that context, that the term "Versus" was quite appropriate. In the wider scheme of things, perhaps less so. > > ? Regarding Android, I do hope Google does a better job. The got booed off the stage, so to speak, at last year's CSUN conference. Hopefully that has caused them to ear alarm bells, but several of my friends who have gotten Android phones have said they are very frustrated with their purchase. > > As I understand it, there are several incarnations of Android. I've only actually had hands-on play with 2 phones, a Samsung and another whose brand name I honestly can't remember right now. Neither phone, as far as I am aware, was equipped with accessibility and although some of the apps onboard were quite visually appealing, I'm not sure how they would have worked with access technology. Now, before anybody jumps; I' not pre-guessing or judging here. I'm only commenting on what I saw; and my hypothesis could be way off the mark. > > Lynne > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- From lynne at mac-access.net Thu Dec 29 04:52:35 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2011 04:52:35 +0000 Subject: Blogging In-Reply-To: <57656BEA-DFAB-4D18-A142-42545750CBA7@softcon.com> References: <57656BEA-DFAB-4D18-A142-42545750CBA7@softcon.com> Message-ID: <83346BE9-A608-4140-82CC-66B8A2A46D32@mac-access.net> Hello Travis I think most people are using Mars Edit on the Mac side. But as I understand it you have to set up the themes from within Wordpress itself if you use that provider. Mars Edit is very very accessible and the Red Sweater support guy is the same guy who writes the software. He's been very communicative with Gordon for several months now. Lynne On 29 Dec 2011, at 04:40, Travis Siegel wrote: Well, you asked. I wrote my blogging software from scratch. It has very few features, but I'm getting there, and since it was written from scratch, it has all the accessibility options I need. *grin* I don't really do much with css, though I think it's supported, haven't actually tried putting one in, so don't know for sure. However, there's not a lot I can customize, but again, there's not much need for me to do so either. I've offered my blogging software to others on this list before, but nobody took me up on it, so I'm guessing everyone else is using something better and more accessible. Guess that's all for now. :) (sorry, but you did ask) heh. ======================================= The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html Or: you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: --------------------------------------- From express_able at yahoo.com Thu Dec 29 04:57:30 2011 From: express_able at yahoo.com (Chris Johnson) Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2011 21:57:30 -0700 Subject: Apple Versus Microsoft; [Screen-Readers] In-Reply-To: References: <34C6E92C-EFBB-4F69-80BE-1210AADB5BFC@mac-access.net> <4EF6249E.2020604@internode.on.net> <961E6202-CF5E-4FFA-8062-BD6FB739838A@mac-access.net> <90F2B80E-4FDE-49FE-A310-FF3DA966CCA7@softcon.com> <4EF8C9E9.9040608@internode.on.net> <0C2516AA-6B12-4DDC-85E6-BF2F00B47B5B@mac-access.net> <2AAAC162-7044-4E57-BFCA-19738C3888EE@softcon.com> <373C49EE-740B-47D0-944F-C052533434DB@mac-access.net> <729FF942-EFEE-451E-82C3-45A98036827E@hopewell.org.uk> <398EE1EC-941B-43FC-808D-435DF03F4CEC@internode.on.net> <89BF0FE7-4F3E-48EA-9420-0409A42187DA@m ac-access.net> <561D8422-180F-4C47-8067-E0F5082BAADF@mac-access.net> <4EFB713C.608@internode.on.net> <2011122 8161044.3yhn7se12coow400@webmail.iu.edu> Message-ID: <4EFBF33A.5040700@yahoo.com> Golly, This thread has read like a battle field. I like what Paul said about the expenses that a company must go through to output a quality product. And if wasn't for their effort and all those who DECIDED to buy their products, hence supporting their further research and development, all these free and great screenreaders and such that we have today wouldn't be what they are. that being said. NVDA works great with Thunderbird and is much more "Maclike" than other screenreaders (e.g. H for headings and other commands similar to Voiceover when in Browse mode, for example). Chris Johnson On 12/28/11 9:45 PM, Dane Trethowan wrote: > Yep, I see where you're coming from in the below post, the points you rais have been responsible for some very negative reviews of the Mac and its operating system, I remember in one such case where around 90% of what was written was totally wrong and inaccurate, I respectfully wrote to the author pointing out the problems and suggested that he may wish to write a corrected version of the review after doing a little more research and naturally I gave the author several links he could follow, I've not heard of him since and that was quite a few years ago. > I'm sure the same sort of scenario is true for many other devices, when transferring from one mobile phone to another for example. Fact is that humans are very routine type creatures. > > I appreciate that a person migrating from Windows to a Mac may naturally have some questions regarding the new environment and those questions should be answered but comparing Windows to OSX is like comparing a car to a bicycle, whilst they both move and get you from point A to point B they deliver you in different ways, hence whilst both OSX and Windows are operating systems which run computers they do that in different ways too! > > > On 29/12/2011, at 3:37 PM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: > >> Hello Mary >> >> On 28 Dec 2011, at 21:10, Mary Stores wrote: >> >> ? Well, there is ZoomText, and also Drangon Naturally Speaking. Those are both great AT products that do well with Windows, but many of our students have reported frustrations on the mac to the point of returning the programs. >> >> I would never claim that Mac accessibility is perfect. But I would like to raise one point if I may. I am in regular correspondence with 3 people who teach VoiceOver and Mac OSX in general, professionally in 2 cases. All 3 of them have told me repeatedly that much of the problem with a lot of new Mac OSX users is an inability to "Let Go" of the concepts and practices of their Windows working experience. I'm not in any way criticising, because I am sure that it's a very difficult thing to do for some people. >> >> But the point I'm making here is that this very issue often seems to distort the picture because people assume that, because they can't master it, the operating system itself must be flawed. Conversely, however, the same is probably true of somebody used to Mac OSX and suddenly finding themselves plunged into the Windows environment. So what I'm saying here is that the fault isn't always necessarily the system itself, but user error or user lack of knowledge. >> >> ? Firefox also have some very good web accessibility evaluation tools that have been developed recently. >> >> Under Mac OSX I agree that the Mozilla platforms are frustratingly inaccessible. I do sometimes use FireFox on the Mac and the new functionalities are actually giving it a significant edge over Safari. Now, yes, Apple is a big part of that problem because they won't release the API's necessary to have developers of certain applications enable their products for the VoiceOver user. And yes, I'd be the first to agree that Apple is definitely selling the vision impaired short on that count. >> >> ? But the term "versus," ... I have to say I don't like it. They are two different OS's and there are different ways of navigating both. >> >> That was merely a figure of speech. The discussion at that time was a direct comparison between the two in terms of cost. Ergo, marketing philosophies made me believe, as I still do in that context, that the term "Versus" was quite appropriate. In the wider scheme of things, perhaps less so. >> >> ? Regarding Android, I do hope Google does a better job. The got booed off the stage, so to speak, at last year's CSUN conference. Hopefully that has caused them to ear alarm bells, but several of my friends who have gotten Android phones have said they are very frustrated with their purchase. >> >> As I understand it, there are several incarnations of Android. I've only actually had hands-on play with 2 phones, a Samsung and another whose brand name I honestly can't remember right now. Neither phone, as far as I am aware, was equipped with accessibility and although some of the apps onboard were quite visually appealing, I'm not sure how they would have worked with access technology. Now, before anybody jumps; I' not pre-guessing or judging here. I'm only commenting on what I saw; and my hypothesis could be way off the mark. >> >> Lynne >> >> >> ======================================= >> >> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free >> >> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat >> >> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: >> >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html >> >> Or: >> >> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: >> >> >> --------------------------------------- > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- > From lynne at mac-access.net Thu Dec 29 05:54:48 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2011 05:54:48 +0000 Subject: Adobe DreamWeaver CS5.5 Message-ID: Hello To my shame, I can't remember exactly who it was that said he'd bought a copy of this; like I myself have. However, I have a feeling it might have been Roger. I'd be interested to know whether the person concerned has tried it yet with accessibility and, if so, how did they find it? I got around to trying it a few minutes ago with and without Window-Eyes. It seems that Window-Eyes is now having problems with standard list boxes. It wouldn't read the list box's contents in the installer; it won't read the list boxes in the main app, which render some of it totally inaccessible because you can't do things like select your templates, select your themes, or even your site's contents. This is with Window-Eyes 7.5.2. I will contact GW Micro to see if they can lower themselves to provide support these days. But initial signs are not good for the combination of CS5.5 and WE. My interest is in whether this has been tried with an earlier version of WE, whether it has been tried with another screen-reader, etc.. I haven't as yet used our serial number; preferring to first install it as a trial to see how it goes. But initial tests don't look too promising. I need to get to try it with NVDA to see whether that will handle it. But it might even come to trying JFW and, well, if it works we'll have to see if we can raise funds from an external source to buy Gordon a copy of that instead because advanced web design is shortly going to become a necessity for Gordon rather than an option. Lynne From lynne at mac-access.net Thu Dec 29 06:06:42 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2011 06:06:42 +0000 Subject: Apple Versus Microsoft; [Screen-Readers] In-Reply-To: <4EFBF33A.5040700@yahoo.com> References: <34C6E92C-EFBB-4F69-80BE-1210AADB5BFC@mac-access.net> <4EF6249E.2020604@internode.on.net> <961E6202-CF5E-4FFA-8062-BD6FB739838A@mac-access.net> <90F2B80E-4FDE-49FE-A310-FF3DA966CCA7@softcon.com> <4EF8C9E9.9040608@internode.on.net> <0C2516AA-6B12-4DDC-85E6-BF2F00B47B5B@mac-access.net> <2AAAC162-7044-4E57-BFCA-19738C3888EE@softcon.com> <373C49EE-740B-47D0-944F-C052533434DB@mac-access.net> <729FF942-EFEE-451E-82C3-45A98036827E@hopewell.org.uk> <398EE1EC-941B-43FC-808D-435DF03F4CEC@internode.on.net> <89BF0FE7-4F3E-48EA-9420-0409A42187DA@m ac-access.net> <561D8422-180F-4C47-8067-E0F5082BAADF@mac-access.net> <4EFB713C.608@internode.on.net> <2011122 8161044.3yhn7se12coow400@webmail.iu.edu> <4EFBF33A.50 40700@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4D571FA9-9A6B-4072-83A2-4AE026B40AB7@mac-access.net> Hello Chris NVDA seems far more object orientated than either of the big two. I really don't mean to offend; but this is one of those instances where vision is a very definite advantage in terms of assessing accessibility. Window-Eyes changes your web page into a vertical sheet of paper, in effect, made from electrons. Each "Line" can contain a link or other element. In the object-orientated environment, however, links are usually situated side-by-side, often with other text or elements, and with title tooltips so that when you hover the mouse over the link, other information appears. Window-Eyes doesn't even seem to read out the tooltip info without additional interaction. I'd have to check, and I will; but I seem to remember that NVDA does do that. I am starting to think I need to try JFW, just to see what all the fuss is about. I am going to do that this morning too. I have some free time, so why not use it to further my knowledge. I take Paul's well-founded points. Yes, development costs money. But the point I was making was that Apple must surely have incurred the same costs; yet they make their screen-reader available free of charge. My criticism was aimed towards Microsoft primarily; rather than the access companies. However, I do believe that they do over-charge. I accept the point about market sizes; but manufacturers of monitors etc. face stiff competition. They too have to develop their products; yet their prices aren't in the thousands. Lynne On 29 Dec 2011, at 04:57, Chris Johnson wrote: Golly, This thread has read like a battle field. I like what Paul said about the expenses that a company must go through to output a quality product. And if wasn't for their effort and all those who DECIDED to buy their products, hence supporting their further research and development, all these free and great screenreaders and such that we have today wouldn't be what they are. that being said. NVDA works great with Thunderbird and is much more "Maclike" than other screenreaders (e.g. H for headings and other commands similar to Voiceover when in Browse mode, for example). From roger.firman at btinternet.com Thu Dec 29 08:21:35 2011 From: roger.firman at btinternet.com (Roger Firman) Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2011 08:21:35 -0000 Subject: Adobe DreamWeaver CS5.5 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Lynne, Yes it is me who has purchased a copy. I certainly wouldn't claim to have any degree of expertise at this moment in time as this programme looks to be quite complex but offers plenty of options. Currently I am trying to learn something about how it all works which I hope will then give me a better idea of just how much I am able to achieve. I wonder if you might consider the option of downloading a trial version of JFW to see if it offers anything in advance to WI? Sorry not to have more personal experience of this software at the time of writing. Regards, Roger. From roger.firman at btinternet.com Thu Dec 29 09:26:49 2011 From: roger.firman at btinternet.com (Roger Firman) Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2011 09:26:49 -0000 Subject: USB To Parallel Cable Still Not Working In-Reply-To: <6A177829-C59A-40D4-AF9D-400C7FE131C3@mac-access.net> Message-ID: Hello Lynne, Just a couple of further thoughts. Are you able to assign the USB 001 virtual printer port or not? I have heard that parallel printers can be made to work by unchecking the bidirectional tab. Is the software already on the PC to which you want to run the parallel/USB device, just wondering about the driver. Regards, Roger. From lynne at mac-access.net Thu Dec 29 11:07:13 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2011 11:07:13 +0000 Subject: Adobe DreamWeaver CS5.5 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Roger On 29 Dec 2011, at 08:21, Roger Firman wrote: ? Yes it is me who has purchased a copy. I thought that was right; but I couldn't remember for sure. Thank you for the confirmation. ? I certainly wouldn't claim to have any degree of expertise at this moment in time as this programme looks to be quite complex but offers plenty of options. Currently I am trying to learn something about how it all works which I hope will then give me a better idea of just how much I am able to achieve. Did you have accessibility problems with the list boxes when you started up the software? ? I wonder if you might consider the option of downloading a trial version of JFW to see if it offers anything in advance to WI? I can't, unfortunately, because the demo is only suitable for the 32-bit version of Windows and ours is the 64-bit version. I upgraded from 64-bit Windows 7 Home Premium to 64-bit Windows 7 Ultimate. ? Sorry not to have more personal experience of this software at the time of writing. That's quite alright. All I need are the answers to those basic questions. I will download the updates if I can remember where I saw them, and then install the full version. No point not doing so really as it's already bought. Please do, if you wouldn't mind, keep me posted. Thanks in advance. Lynne From lynne at mac-access.net Thu Dec 29 11:10:21 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2011 11:10:21 +0000 Subject: USB To Parallel Cable Still Not Working In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Roger On 29 Dec 2011, at 09:26, Roger Firman wrote: ? Just a couple of further thoughts. Any suggestions welcome. ? Are you able to assign the USB 001 virtual printer port or not? No. It won't let me assign anything to it. I am not seeing any ports displayed. ? I have heard that parallel printers can be made to work by unchecking the bidirectional tab. That's more or less what Gordon said; but this device claims to support bi-directional printing and also it is giving me obsolete installation instructions. ? Is the software already on the PC to which you want to run the parallel/USB device, just wondering about the driver. The translator isn't, no. But it will be shortly. Lynne From chris.hallsworth at techno-chat.net Thu Dec 29 12:38:08 2011 From: chris.hallsworth at techno-chat.net (chris hallsworth) Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2011 12:38:08 +0000 Subject: Apple Versus Microsoft; [Screen-Readers] In-Reply-To: <4D571FA9-9A6B-4072-83A2-4AE026B40AB7@mac-access.net> References: <34C6E92C-EFBB-4F69-80BE-1210AADB5BFC@mac-access.net> <90F2B80E-4FDE-49FE-A310-FF3DA966CCA7@softcon.com> <4EF8C9E9.9040608@internode.on.net> <0C2516AA-6B12-4DDC-85E6-BF2F00B47B5B@mac-access.net> <2AAAC162-7044-4E57-BFCA-19738C3888EE@softcon.com> <373C49EE-740B-47D0-944F-C052533434DB@mac-access.net> <729FF942-EFEE-451E-82C3-45A98036827E@hopewell.org.uk> <398EE1EC-941B-43FC-808D-435DF03F4CEC@internode.on.net> <89BF0FE7-4F3E-48EA-9420-0409A42187DA@m ac-access.net> <561D8422-180F-4C47-8067-E0F5082BAADF@mac-access.net> <4EFB713C.608@internode.on.net> <2011122 8161044.3yhn7se12coow400@webmail.iu.edu> <4EFBF33A.50 40700@yahoo.com> <4D571FA9-9A6B-4072-83A2-4AE026B40AB7@mac-access.net> Message-ID: <4EFC5F30.7050000@techno-chat.net> Hello Lynn well JFW does the same thing as Window-Eyes in terms of web pages. You can however change this somewhere. You are looking for document presentation. Change that to use screen layout. On 29/12/2011 06:06, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: > Hello Chris > > NVDA seems far more object orientated than either of the big two. I really don't mean to offend; but this is one of those instances where vision is a very definite advantage in terms of assessing accessibility. Window-Eyes changes your web page into a vertical sheet of paper, in effect, made from electrons. Each "Line" can contain a link or other element. In the object-orientated environment, however, links are usually situated side-by-side, often with other text or elements, and with title tooltips so that when you hover the mouse over the link, other information appears. Window-Eyes doesn't even seem to read out the tooltip info without additional interaction. I'd have to check, and I will; but I seem to remember that NVDA does do that. > > I am starting to think I need to try JFW, just to see what all the fuss is about. I am going to do that this morning too. I have some free time, so why not use it to further my knowledge. > > I take Paul's well-founded points. Yes, development costs money. But the point I was making was that Apple must surely have incurred the same costs; yet they make their screen-reader available free of charge. My criticism was aimed towards Microsoft primarily; rather than the access companies. However, I do believe that they do over-charge. I accept the point about market sizes; but manufacturers of monitors etc. face stiff competition. They too have to develop their products; yet their prices aren't in the thousands. > > Lynne > > On 29 Dec 2011, at 04:57, Chris Johnson wrote: > > Golly, > This thread has read like a battle field. > > I like what Paul said about the expenses that a company must go through to output a quality product. And if wasn't for their effort and all those who DECIDED to buy their products, hence supporting their further research and development, all these free and great screenreaders and such that we have today wouldn't be what they are. > > that being said. > NVDA works great with Thunderbird and is much more "Maclike" than other screenreaders (e.g. H for headings and other commands similar to Voiceover when in Browse mode, for example). > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- > From tsiegel at softcon.com Thu Dec 29 14:46:31 2011 From: tsiegel at softcon.com (Travis Siegel) Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2011 09:46:31 -0500 Subject: Blogging In-Reply-To: <83346BE9-A608-4140-82CC-66B8A2A46D32@mac-access.net> References: <57656BEA-DFAB-4D18-A142-42545750CBA7@softcon.com> <83346BE9-A608-4140-82CC-66B8A2A46D32@mac-access.net> Message-ID: Hmm. I like folks that make their software accessible. I'll download mars edit, and take a look. Perhaps I could incorporate support for it as well. Might be fun to try anyhow. I looked at wordpress, and decided it was too bloated for my needs, so I dragged out my book on php programming, and went to work on a demo they'd provided for a news site. I tore it all apart, and put it back together in a manner I liked, rewriting parts as I went. When I was done, I had my own blogging site, with support for multiple people/areas, integration with mailing lists, and even discussion groups. I've dropped pieces from all over the book into my blog pieces, though not all of them are active at the moment. A favorites list for example where folks can search for entries that the most folks have bookmarked and so on. It's all quite fun, and though I don't consider it done, it's more than usable as is, since I've been using it for more than a year (though I don't blog that often myself), and it works pretty well for my purposes. I'll check out mars edit, and if it's easy enough to incorporate support, perhaps that'll make my blogging more than once a month or so, since we all know, simplicity makes us less lazy. :) From lynne at mac-access.net Thu Dec 29 15:14:52 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2011 15:14:52 +0000 Subject: Apple Versus Microsoft; [Screen-Readers] In-Reply-To: <4EFC5F30.7050000@techno-chat.net> References: <34C6E92C-EFBB-4F69-80BE-1210AADB5BFC@mac-access.net> <90F2B80E-4FDE-49FE-A310-FF3DA966CCA7@softcon.com> <4EF8C9E9.9040608@internode.on.net> <0C2516AA-6B12-4DDC-85E6-BF2F00B47B5B@mac-access.net> <2AAAC162-7044-4E57-BFCA-19738C3888EE@softcon.com> <373C49EE-740B-47D0-944F-C052533434DB@mac-access.net> <729FF942-EFEE-451E-82C3-45A98036827E@hopewell.org.uk> <398EE1EC-941B-43FC-808D-435DF03F4CEC@internode.on.net> <89BF0FE7-4F3E-48EA-9420-0409A42187DA@m ac-access.net> <561D8422-180F-4C47-8067-E0F5082BAADF@mac-access.net> <4EFB713C.608@internode.on.net> <2011122 8161044.3yhn7se12coow400@webmail.iu.edu> <4EFBF33A.50 40700@yahoo.com> <4D571FA9-9A6B-4072-83A2-4AE026B40AB7@mac-access.net> <4EFC5F30.7050000@ techno-chat.net> Message-ID: Hello Chris Well, I can't actually try JFW because the demo version is only 32-bit and ours is the 64-bit version of Windows. Maybe it will work; but again, we have Ultimate and the demo page seems to indicate that it only works on Home basic and Home Premium. Window-Eyes doesn't to my knowledge allow you to see the design of a website which is a huge oversight in my opinion. Not to worry; I've downloaded NVDA and once we figure out how to configure and use Braille displays with it, we'll most likely stop using WE for the most part. Gordon was saying yesterday that he agrees with those who are less than impressed with the new version of WE. In fact, it seems to have gone down the pan since 7.0 if all the testimonials I've seen are to be believe, rather than the somewhat antiquated write-up on the GW Micro website. Lynne On 29 Dec 2011, at 12:38, chris hallsworth wrote: Hello Lynn well JFW does the same thing as Window-Eyes in terms of web pages. You can however change this somewhere. You are looking for document presentation. Change that to use screen layout. On 29/12/2011 06:06, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: > Hello Chris > > NVDA seems far more object orientated than either of the big two. I really don't mean to offend; but this is one of those instances where vision is a very definite advantage in terms of assessing accessibility. Window-Eyes changes your web page into a vertical sheet of paper, in effect, made from electrons. Each "Line" can contain a link or other element. In the object-orientated environment, however, links are usually situated side-by-side, often with other text or elements, and with title tooltips so that when you hover the mouse over the link, other information appears. Window-Eyes doesn't even seem to read out the tooltip info without additional interaction. I'd have to check, and I will; but I seem to remember that NVDA does do that. > > I am starting to think I need to try JFW, just to see what all the fuss is about. I am going to do that this morning too. I have some free time, so why not use it to further my knowledge. > > I take Paul's well-founded points. Yes, development costs money. But the point I was making was that Apple must surely have incurred the same costs; yet they make their screen-reader available free of charge. My criticism was aimed towards Microsoft primarily; rather than the access companies. However, I do believe that they do over-charge. I accept the point about market sizes; but manufacturers of monitors etc. face stiff competition. They too have to develop their products; yet their prices aren't in the thousands. > > Lynne > > On 29 Dec 2011, at 04:57, Chris Johnson wrote: > > Golly, > This thread has read like a battle field. > > I like what Paul said about the expenses that a company must go through to output a quality product. And if wasn't for their effort and all those who DECIDED to buy their products, hence supporting their further research and development, all these free and great screenreaders and such that we have today wouldn't be what they are. > > that being said. > NVDA works great with Thunderbird and is much more "Maclike" than other screenreaders (e.g. H for headings and other commands similar to Voiceover when in Browse mode, for example). > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- > ======================================= The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html Or: you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: --------------------------------------- From lynne at mac-access.net Thu Dec 29 15:17:05 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2011 15:17:05 +0000 Subject: Blogging In-Reply-To: References: <57656BEA-DFAB-4D18-A142-42545750CBA7@softcon.com> <83346BE9-A608-4140-82CC-66B8A2A46D32@mac-access.net> Message-ID: <150F8799-7D7A-40EB-BCE3-5A70D25A12F4@mac-access.net> Hello Travis We're going to be rolling out our own blog server shortly. So I may write to you privately if that's alright. Lynne On 29 Dec 2011, at 14:46, Travis Siegel wrote: Hmm. I like folks that make their software accessible. I'll download mars edit, and take a look. Perhaps I could incorporate support for it as well. Might be fun to try anyhow. I looked at wordpress, and decided it was too bloated for my needs, so I dragged out my book on php programming, and went to work on a demo they'd provided for a news site. I tore it all apart, and put it back together in a manner I liked, rewriting parts as I went. When I was done, I had my own blogging site, with support for multiple people/areas, integration with mailing lists, and even discussion groups. I've dropped pieces from all over the book into my blog pieces, though not all of them are active at the moment. A favorites list for example where folks can search for entries that the most folks have bookmarked and so on. It's all quite fun, and though I don't consider it done, it's more than usable as is, since I've been using it for more than a year (though I don't blog that often myself), and it works pretty well for my purposes. I'll check out mars edit, and if it's easy enough to incorporate support, perhaps that'll make my blogging more than once a month or so, since we all know, simplicity makes us less lazy. :) ======================================= The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html Or: you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: --------------------------------------- From roger.firman at btinternet.com Thu Dec 29 15:33:44 2011 From: roger.firman at btinternet.com (Roger Firman) Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2011 15:33:44 -0000 Subject: USB To Parallel Cable Still Not Working In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hello Lynne, I gather that USB to Parallel cables can be a pain to install, but that the one from Maplin (?14.99 or ?25.99) works. such devices do NOT install a parallel port as such, it will connect itself to a USB Port. Am I correct in thinking you want to use the Duxbury Braille Translator, I don't know if the version-number is significant but you probably have a reasonably current one? Also, I was also wondering which embosser you have? Regards, Roger. From chris.hallsworth at techno-chat.net Thu Dec 29 15:37:49 2011 From: chris.hallsworth at techno-chat.net (chris hallsworth) Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2011 15:37:49 +0000 Subject: Apple Versus Microsoft; [Screen-Readers] In-Reply-To: References: <34C6E92C-EFBB-4F69-80BE-1210AADB5BFC@mac-access.net> <4EF8C9E9.9040608@internode.on.net> <0C2516AA-6B12-4DDC-85E6-BF2F00B47B5B@mac-access.net> <2AAAC162-7044-4E57-BFCA-19738C3888EE@softcon.com> <373C49EE-740B-47D0-944F-C052533434DB@mac-access.net> <729FF942-EFEE-451E-82C3-45A98036827E@hopewell.org.uk> <398EE1EC-941B-43FC-808D-435DF03F4CEC@internode.on.net> <89BF0FE7-4F3E-48EA-9420-0409A42187DA@m ac-access.net> <561D8422-180F-4C47-8067-E0F5082BAADF@mac-access.net> <4EFB713C.608@internode.on.net> <2011122 8161044.3yhn7se12coow400@webmail.iu.edu> <4EFBF33A.50 40700@yahoo.com> <4D571FA9-9A6B-4072-83A2-4AE026B40AB7@mac-access.net> <4EFC5F30.7050000@ techno-chat.net> Message-ID: <4EFC894D.8090606@techno-chat.net> Hi Lynn no JFW demo version runs on both 32 and 64 bit Windows. The trick is to download the correct version according to your version of Windows. This is unlike WE or any other screen reader since the one program works on both platforms. I don't know why FS went down this route but there you go. Anyway to be honest I like WE for the most part but because NVDA works with the applications I use on a daily basis I choose to use that as primary and WE for enhanced iTunes experience or apps that NVDA just cannot cope with, which is fewer and fewer as each new release comes out. On 29/12/2011 15:14, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: > Hello Chris > > Well, I can't actually try JFW because the demo version is only 32-bit and ours is the 64-bit version of Windows. Maybe it will work; but again, we have Ultimate and the demo page seems to indicate that it only works on Home basic and Home Premium. > > Window-Eyes doesn't to my knowledge allow you to see the design of a website which is a huge oversight in my opinion. Not to worry; I've downloaded NVDA and once we figure out how to configure and use Braille displays with it, we'll most likely stop using WE for the most part. Gordon was saying yesterday that he agrees with those who are less than impressed with the new version of WE. In fact, it seems to have gone down the pan since 7.0 if all the testimonials I've seen are to be believe, rather than the somewhat antiquated write-up on the GW Micro website. > > Lynne > > > On 29 Dec 2011, at 12:38, chris hallsworth wrote: > > Hello Lynn well JFW does the same thing as Window-Eyes in terms of web pages. You can however change this somewhere. You are looking for document presentation. Change that to use screen layout. > > On 29/12/2011 06:06, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: >> Hello Chris >> >> NVDA seems far more object orientated than either of the big two. I really don't mean to offend; but this is one of those instances where vision is a very definite advantage in terms of assessing accessibility. Window-Eyes changes your web page into a vertical sheet of paper, in effect, made from electrons. Each "Line" can contain a link or other element. In the object-orientated environment, however, links are usually situated side-by-side, often with other text or elements, and with title tooltips so that when you hover the mouse over the link, other information appears. Window-Eyes doesn't even seem to read out the tooltip info without additional interaction. I'd have to check, and I will; but I seem to remember that NVDA does do that. >> >> I am starting to think I need to try JFW, just to see what all the fuss is about. I am going to do that this morning too. I have some free time, so why not use it to further my knowledge. >> >> I take Paul's well-founded points. Yes, development costs money. But the point I was making was that Apple must surely have incurred the same costs; yet they make their screen-reader available free of charge. My criticism was aimed towards Microsoft primarily; rather than the access companies. However, I do believe that they do over-charge. I accept the point about market sizes; but manufacturers of monitors etc. face stiff competition. They too have to develop their products; yet their prices aren't in the thousands. >> >> Lynne >> >> On 29 Dec 2011, at 04:57, Chris Johnson wrote: >> >> Golly, >> This thread has read like a battle field. >> >> I like what Paul said about the expenses that a company must go through to output a quality product. And if wasn't for their effort and all those who DECIDED to buy their products, hence supporting their further research and development, all these free and great screenreaders and such that we have today wouldn't be what they are. >> >> that being said. >> NVDA works great with Thunderbird and is much more "Maclike" than other screenreaders (e.g. H for headings and other commands similar to Voiceover when in Browse mode, for example). >> >> >> ======================================= >> >> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free >> >> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat >> >> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: >> >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html >> >> Or: >> >> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: >> >> >> --------------------------------------- >> > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- > From lynne at mac-access.net Thu Dec 29 15:58:53 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2011 15:58:53 +0000 Subject: USB To Parallel Cable Still Not Working In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <30059D13-8372-4F69-AA23-DCF1D8B59D98@mac-access.net> Hello Roger On 29 Dec 2011, at 15:33, Roger Firman wrote: ? I gather that USB to Parallel cables can be a pain to install, but that the one from Maplin (?14.99 or ?25.99) works. such devices do NOT install a parallel port as such, it will connect itself to a USB Port. That's the one we have, the ?14.99 one. The instructions say that you should set your printer as LTP2 but I'm not seeing any ports at all, USB or otherwise. ? Am I correct in thinking you want to use the Duxbury Braille Translator, I don't know if the version-number is significant but you probably have a reasonably current one? Also, I was also wondering which embosser you have? We have Duxberry version 11.1 and our embosser is an Index Everest D with version 10.43 firmware I think it is. Gordon did an upgrade on the firmware a couple of years ago. As you see it's the old Index version 2 embosser because we simply cannot justify or afford the upgrade cost. Lynne From lynne at mac-access.net Thu Dec 29 16:02:24 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2011 16:02:24 +0000 Subject: Apple Versus Microsoft; [Screen-Readers] In-Reply-To: <4EFC894D.8090606@techno-chat.net> References: <34C6E92C-EFBB-4F69-80BE-1210AADB5BFC@mac-access.net> <4EF8C9E9.9040608@internode.on.net> <0C2516AA-6B12-4DDC-85E6-BF2F00B47B5B@mac-access.net> <2AAAC162-7044-4E57-BFCA-19738C3888EE@softcon.com> <373C49EE-740B-47D0-944F-C052533434DB@mac-access.net> <729FF942-EFEE-451E-82C3-45A98036827E@hopewell.org.uk> <398EE1EC-941B-43FC-808D-435DF03F4CEC@internode.on.net> <89BF0FE7-4F3E-48EA-9420-0409A42187DA@m ac-access.net> <561D8422-180F-4C47-8067-E0F5082BAADF@mac-access.net> <4EFB713C.608@internode.on.net> <2011122 8161044.3yhn7se12coow400@webmail.iu.edu> <4EFBF33A.50 40700@yahoo.com> <4D571FA9-9A6B-4072-83A2-4AE026B40AB7@mac-access.net> <4EFC5F30.7050000@ techno-chat.net> <4EFC894D.8090606@techno-chat.net > Message-ID: <080C1948-5522-42F0-A0F0-53EE250E6E9A@mac-access.net> Hello Chris I will check again; but I'm sure I read that on the home page, it only worked on certain brands of 32-bit Windows. But you may indeed be correct. I'm not sure what you mean when you say it's not like WE because WE will work on any brand of Windows. Lynne On 29 Dec 2011, at 15:37, chris hallsworth wrote: Hi Lynn no JFW demo version runs on both 32 and 64 bit Windows. The trick is to download the correct version according to your version of Windows. This is unlike WE or any other screen reader since the one program works on both platforms. I don't know why FS went down this route but there you go. Anyway to be honest I like WE for the most part but because NVDA works with the applications I use on a daily basis I choose to use that as primary and WE for enhanced iTunes experience or apps that NVDA just cannot cope with, which is fewer and fewer as each new release comes out. On 29/12/2011 15:14, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: > Hello Chris > > Well, I can't actually try JFW because the demo version is only 32-bit and ours is the 64-bit version of Windows. Maybe it will work; but again, we have Ultimate and the demo page seems to indicate that it only works on Home basic and Home Premium. > > Window-Eyes doesn't to my knowledge allow you to see the design of a website which is a huge oversight in my opinion. Not to worry; I've downloaded NVDA and once we figure out how to configure and use Braille displays with it, we'll most likely stop using WE for the most part. Gordon was saying yesterday that he agrees with those who are less than impressed with the new version of WE. In fact, it seems to have gone down the pan since 7.0 if all the testimonials I've seen are to be believe, rather than the somewhat antiquated write-up on the GW Micro website. > > Lynne > > > On 29 Dec 2011, at 12:38, chris hallsworth wrote: > > Hello Lynn well JFW does the same thing as Window-Eyes in terms of web pages. You can however change this somewhere. You are looking for document presentation. Change that to use screen layout. > > On 29/12/2011 06:06, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: >> Hello Chris >> >> NVDA seems far more object orientated than either of the big two. I really don't mean to offend; but this is one of those instances where vision is a very definite advantage in terms of assessing accessibility. Window-Eyes changes your web page into a vertical sheet of paper, in effect, made from electrons. Each "Line" can contain a link or other element. In the object-orientated environment, however, links are usually situated side-by-side, often with other text or elements, and with title tooltips so that when you hover the mouse over the link, other information appears. Window-Eyes doesn't even seem to read out the tooltip info without additional interaction. I'd have to check, and I will; but I seem to remember that NVDA does do that. >> >> I am starting to think I need to try JFW, just to see what all the fuss is about. I am going to do that this morning too. I have some free time, so why not use it to further my knowledge. >> >> I take Paul's well-founded points. Yes, development costs money. But the point I was making was that Apple must surely have incurred the same costs; yet they make their screen-reader available free of charge. My criticism was aimed towards Microsoft primarily; rather than the access companies. However, I do believe that they do over-charge. I accept the point about market sizes; but manufacturers of monitors etc. face stiff competition. They too have to develop their products; yet their prices aren't in the thousands. >> >> Lynne >> >> On 29 Dec 2011, at 04:57, Chris Johnson wrote: >> >> Golly, >> This thread has read like a battle field. >> >> I like what Paul said about the expenses that a company must go through to output a quality product. And if wasn't for their effort and all those who DECIDED to buy their products, hence supporting their further research and development, all these free and great screenreaders and such that we have today wouldn't be what they are. >> >> that being said. >> NVDA works great with Thunderbird and is much more "Maclike" than other screenreaders (e.g. H for headings and other commands similar to Voiceover when in Browse mode, for example). >> >> >> ======================================= >> >> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free >> >> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat >> >> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: >> >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html >> >> Or: >> >> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: >> >> >> --------------------------------------- >> > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- > ======================================= The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html Or: you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: --------------------------------------- From d.griffith at btinternet.com Thu Dec 29 16:29:14 2011 From: d.griffith at btinternet.com (David Griffith) Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2011 16:29:14 -0000 Subject: USB To Parallel Cable Still Not Working In-Reply-To: <30059D13-8372-4F69-AA23-DCF1D8B59D98@mac-access.net> References: <30059D13-8372-4F69-AA23-DCF1D8B59D98@mac-access.net> Message-ID: <43F4AA928DFB4EF9ADBD838C68C90441@acer4d025c48b8> It must be very frustrating. Maplins do have a tech support line which I have found pretty useful but it is a premium rate line and really the devices they sell should be straightforward to use. Sadly not always the case. If space is not too much an issue I wonder, thinking laterally, whether you would be better off getting a solid result by digging out an old, even ancient windows desktop with a parallel port, or with a spare slot for a parallel port card and using it almost exclusively for running the embosser and Duxbury as a network device. Once setup up on a network with printer sharing you should be able to emboss wirelessly on netbbooks etc accessing the same network. on netcooks . If you had an old XP machine networking is very easy but I suspect that networking would present few challenges for Gordon anyway. David Griffith -----Original Message----- From: techno-chat-bounces at techno-chat.net [mailto:techno-chat-bounces at techno-chat.net] On Behalf Of Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith Sent: 29 December 2011 15:59 To: Techno-Chat ... Technology Enthusiasm! Subject: Re: USB To Parallel Cable Still Not Working Hello Roger On 29 Dec 2011, at 15:33, Roger Firman wrote: ? I gather that USB to Parallel cables can be a pain to install, but that the one from Maplin (?14.99 or ?25.99) works. such devices do NOT install a parallel port as such, it will connect itself to a USB Port. That's the one we have, the ?14.99 one. The instructions say that you should set your printer as LTP2 but I'm not seeing any ports at all, USB or otherwise. ? Am I correct in thinking you want to use the Duxbury Braille Translator, I don't know if the version-number is significant but you probably have a reasonably current one? Also, I was also wondering which embosser you have? We have Duxberry version 11.1 and our embosser is an Index Everest D with version 10.43 firmware I think it is. Gordon did an upgrade on the firmware a couple of years ago. As you see it's the old Index version 2 embosser because we simply cannot justify or afford the upgrade cost. Lynne ======================================= The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html Or: you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: --------------------------------------- From roger.firman at btinternet.com Thu Dec 29 17:20:27 2011 From: roger.firman at btinternet.com (Roger Firman) Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2011 17:20:27 -0000 Subject: USB To Parallel Cable Still Not Working In-Reply-To: <30059D13-8372-4F69-AA23-DCF1D8B59D98@mac-access.net> Message-ID: Hello Lynne, If DBT is installed etc, you might find it useful to make contact with Duxbury direct. If for any reason you might prefer not too, I would be happy to do it but I would want to be sure of all the information being correct. Will happily help if needed. Regards, Roger. From chris.hallsworth at techno-chat.net Thu Dec 29 17:29:51 2011 From: chris.hallsworth at techno-chat.net (chris hallsworth) Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2011 17:29:51 +0000 Subject: Apple Versus Microsoft; [Screen-Readers] In-Reply-To: <080C1948-5522-42F0-A0F0-53EE250E6E9A@mac-access.net> References: <34C6E92C-EFBB-4F69-80BE-1210AADB5BFC@mac-access.net> <2AAAC162-7044-4E57-BFCA-19738C3888EE@softcon.com> <373C49EE-740B-47D0-944F-C052533434DB@mac-access.net> <729FF942-EFEE-451E-82C3-45A98036827E@hopewell.org.uk> <398EE1EC-941B-43FC-808D-435DF03F4CEC@internode.on.net> <89BF0FE7-4F3E-48EA-9420-0409A42187DA@m ac-access.net> <561D8422-180F-4C47-8067-E0F5082BAADF@mac-access.net> <4EFB713C.608@internode.on.net> <2011122 8161044.3yhn7se12coow400@webmail.iu.edu> <4EFBF33A.50 40700@yahoo.com> <4D571FA9-9A6B-4072-83A2-4AE026B40AB7@mac-access.net> <4EFC5F30.7050000@ techno-chat.net> <4EFC894D.8090606@techno-chat.net > <080C1948-5522-42F0-A0F0-53EE250E6E9A@mac-access.net> Message-ID: <4EFCA38F.9010306@techno-chat.net> Ok Lynn well with Window-Eyes demo version you download one program and you can install it on any flavour of Windows. On 29/12/2011 16:02, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: > Hello Chris > > I will check again; but I'm sure I read that on the home page, it only worked on certain brands of 32-bit Windows. But you may indeed be correct. > > I'm not sure what you mean when you say it's not like WE because WE will work on any brand of Windows. > > Lynne > > On 29 Dec 2011, at 15:37, chris hallsworth wrote: > > Hi Lynn no JFW demo version runs on both 32 and 64 bit Windows. The trick is to download the correct version according to your version of Windows. This is unlike WE or any other screen reader since the one program works on both platforms. I don't know why FS went down this route but there you go. Anyway to be honest I like WE for the most part but because NVDA works with the applications I use on a daily basis I choose to use that as primary and WE for enhanced iTunes experience or apps that NVDA just cannot cope with, which is fewer and fewer as each new release comes out. > > On 29/12/2011 15:14, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: >> Hello Chris >> >> Well, I can't actually try JFW because the demo version is only 32-bit and ours is the 64-bit version of Windows. Maybe it will work; but again, we have Ultimate and the demo page seems to indicate that it only works on Home basic and Home Premium. >> >> Window-Eyes doesn't to my knowledge allow you to see the design of a website which is a huge oversight in my opinion. Not to worry; I've downloaded NVDA and once we figure out how to configure and use Braille displays with it, we'll most likely stop using WE for the most part. Gordon was saying yesterday that he agrees with those who are less than impressed with the new version of WE. In fact, it seems to have gone down the pan since 7.0 if all the testimonials I've seen are to be believe, rather than the somewhat antiquated write-up on the GW Micro website. >> >> Lynne >> >> >> On 29 Dec 2011, at 12:38, chris hallsworth wrote: >> >> Hello Lynn well JFW does the same thing as Window-Eyes in terms of web pages. You can however change this somewhere. You are looking for document presentation. Change that to use screen layout. >> >> On 29/12/2011 06:06, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: >>> Hello Chris >>> >>> NVDA seems far more object orientated than either of the big two. I really don't mean to offend; but this is one of those instances where vision is a very definite advantage in terms of assessing accessibility. Window-Eyes changes your web page into a vertical sheet of paper, in effect, made from electrons. Each "Line" can contain a link or other element. In the object-orientated environment, however, links are usually situated side-by-side, often with other text or elements, and with title tooltips so that when you hover the mouse over the link, other information appears. Window-Eyes doesn't even seem to read out the tooltip info without additional interaction. I'd have to check, and I will; but I seem to remember that NVDA does do that. >>> >>> I am starting to think I need to try JFW, just to see what all the fuss is about. I am going to do that this morning too. I have some free time, so why not use it to further my knowledge. >>> >>> I take Paul's well-founded points. Yes, development costs money. But the point I was making was that Apple must surely have incurred the same costs; yet they make their screen-reader available free of charge. My criticism was aimed towards Microsoft primarily; rather than the access companies. However, I do believe that they do over-charge. I accept the point about market sizes; but manufacturers of monitors etc. face stiff competition. They too have to develop their products; yet their prices aren't in the thousands. >>> >>> Lynne >>> >>> On 29 Dec 2011, at 04:57, Chris Johnson wrote: >>> >>> Golly, >>> This thread has read like a battle field. >>> >>> I like what Paul said about the expenses that a company must go through to output a quality product. And if wasn't for their effort and all those who DECIDED to buy their products, hence supporting their further research and development, all these free and great screenreaders and such that we have today wouldn't be what they are. >>> >>> that being said. >>> NVDA works great with Thunderbird and is much more "Maclike" than other screenreaders (e.g. H for headings and other commands similar to Voiceover when in Browse mode, for example). >>> >>> >>> ======================================= >>> >>> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free >>> >>> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at >>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat >>> >>> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: >>> >>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html >>> >>> Or: >>> >>> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. 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The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- > From grtdane at internode.on.net Thu Dec 29 18:57:49 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2011 05:57:49 +1100 Subject: News Radio In-Reply-To: <93034213-FA5F-4C82-AFFD-D9AC11648BC9@gmail.com> References: <3FCEEE47-DD79-47D0-9995-7A76E331A65B@internode.on.net> <93034213-FA5F-4C82-AFFD-D9AC11648BC9@gmail.com> Message-ID: Thanks for all these and I think I like them all because they all have their own sound about them, as we've already discussed with WINS for example. Again I say, these stations really have "News Radio" down to a fine art, what you need to know when you need to know and in a format which doesn't take up too much time. There was a station called Kyro 710 but I can't find it, must have closed down or perhaps its not broadcasting on the Internet any more,. On 24/12/2011, at 11:06 AM, Courtney Curran wrote: > Hi Dane, > I love news radio, some awesome stations are WTOP radio out of D.C., WCBS 880 out of New York City, 1010 WINS out of New York City, WBBM out of Chicago, KNX out of Los Angeles, KCBS out of San Francisco, KYW out of Philadelphia, and also WWJ out of De Troit. Though come January, there will be another news radio station out of the D.C. area, it will be WNEW. I can send you the links to all of the station streams I mentioned above if you want. > Thanks and Merry Christmas, > > Courtney > > > Sent from my macbook air > > On Dec 23, 2011, at 5:44 PM, Dane Trethowan wrote: > >> Hi! >> >> Just wondering if anyone has any suggestions as to good "News Radio" stations in the U.S. I can listen to? Have to hand it to the U.S., they sure know how to pump out "News Radio", the services in the U.K. and particularly in Australia are pretty bad compared with what the U.S. gives its citizen's. >> >> Anyway I've been listening to KNX, WBBM, WINS and WCBS so what else is there? All the above are excellent stations in my opinion and by the way, thanks to and their VPN service for making it all possible. >> >> >> >> ======================================= >> >> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free >> >> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat >> >> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: >> >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html >> >> Or: >> >> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: >> >> >> --------------------------------------- > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- From lynne at mac-access.net Thu Dec 29 19:31:38 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2011 19:31:38 +0000 Subject: USB To Parallel Cable Still Not Working In-Reply-To: <43F4AA928DFB4EF9ADBD838C68C90441@acer4d025c48b8> References: <30059D13-8372-4F69-AA23-DCF1D8B59D98@mac-access.net> <43F4AA928DFB4EF9ADBD838C68C90441@acer4d025c48b8> Message-ID: <5D98E7F9-D286-4AD8-980B-958CF48F5598@mac-access.net> Hello David We got rid of all our desktops for a number of reasons; one of which was space. We are going to have to crack this because we need it sorting. Lynne On 29 Dec 2011, at 16:29, David Griffith wrote: It must be very frustrating. Maplins do have a tech support line which I have found pretty useful but it is a premium rate line and really the devices they sell should be straightforward to use. Sadly not always the case. If space is not too much an issue I wonder, thinking laterally, whether you would be better off getting a solid result by digging out an old, even ancient windows desktop with a parallel port, or with a spare slot for a parallel port card and using it almost exclusively for running the embosser and Duxbury as a network device. Once setup up on a network with printer sharing you should be able to emboss wirelessly on netbbooks etc accessing the same network. on netcooks . If you had an old XP machine networking is very easy but I suspect that networking would present few challenges for Gordon anyway. David Griffith -----Original Message----- From: techno-chat-bounces at techno-chat.net [mailto:techno-chat-bounces at techno-chat.net] On Behalf Of Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith Sent: 29 December 2011 15:59 To: Techno-Chat ... Technology Enthusiasm! Subject: Re: USB To Parallel Cable Still Not Working Hello Roger On 29 Dec 2011, at 15:33, Roger Firman wrote: ? I gather that USB to Parallel cables can be a pain to install, but that the one from Maplin (?14.99 or ?25.99) works. such devices do NOT install a parallel port as such, it will connect itself to a USB Port. That's the one we have, the ?14.99 one. The instructions say that you should set your printer as LTP2 but I'm not seeing any ports at all, USB or otherwise. ? Am I correct in thinking you want to use the Duxbury Braille Translator, I don't know if the version-number is significant but you probably have a reasonably current one? Also, I was also wondering which embosser you have? We have Duxberry version 11.1 and our embosser is an Index Everest D with version 10.43 firmware I think it is. Gordon did an upgrade on the firmware a couple of years ago. As you see it's the old Index version 2 embosser because we simply cannot justify or afford the upgrade cost. Lynne ======================================= The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html Or: you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: --------------------------------------- ======================================= The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html Or: you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: --------------------------------------- From lynne at mac-access.net Thu Dec 29 19:33:21 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2011 19:33:21 +0000 Subject: USB To Parallel Cable Still Not Working In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Roger I did actually contact them; they told us that they could only help with their own products. We did purchase DBT legally, of course, but haven't ever been able to use it yet since we upgraded. Lynne On 29 Dec 2011, at 17:20, Roger Firman wrote: Hello Lynne, If DBT is installed etc, you might find it useful to make contact with Duxbury direct. If for any reason you might prefer not too, I would be happy to do it but I would want to be sure of all the information being correct. Will happily help if needed. Regards, Roger. ======================================= The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html Or: you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: --------------------------------------- From lynne at mac-access.net Thu Dec 29 19:34:27 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2011 19:34:27 +0000 Subject: Apple Versus Microsoft; [Screen-Readers] In-Reply-To: <4EFCA38F.9010306@techno-chat.net> References: <34C6E92C-EFBB-4F69-80BE-1210AADB5BFC@mac-access.net> <2AAAC162-7044-4E57-BFCA-19738C3888EE@softcon.com> <373C49EE-740B-47D0-944F-C052533434DB@mac-access.net> <729FF942-EFEE-451E-82C3-45A98036827E@hopewell.org.uk> <398EE1EC-941B-43FC-808D-435DF03F4CEC@internode.on.net> <89BF0FE7-4F3E-48EA-9420-0409A42187DA@m ac-access.net> <561D8422-180F-4C47-8067-E0F5082BAADF@mac-access.net> <4EFB713C.608@internode.on.net> <2011122 8161044.3yhn7se12coow400@webmail.iu.edu> <4EFBF33A.50 40700@yahoo.com> <4D571FA9-9A6B-4072-83A2-4AE026B40AB7@mac-access.net> <4EFC5F30.7050000@ techno-chat.net> <4EFC894D.8090606@techno-chat.net > <080C1948-5522-42F0-A0F0-53EE250E6E9A@mac-access.net> <4EFCA38F.9010306@techno-chat.net > Message-ID: <11CB3788-4EB8-4501-862D-0A502E3E693E@mac-access.net> Hello Chris I've checked again and you're quite right. FS does a dedicated installer for 32 and 64-bit. Lynne On 29 Dec 2011, at 17:29, chris hallsworth wrote: Ok Lynn well with Window-Eyes demo version you download one program and you can install it on any flavour of Windows. On 29/12/2011 16:02, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: > Hello Chris > > I will check again; but I'm sure I read that on the home page, it only worked on certain brands of 32-bit Windows. But you may indeed be correct. > > I'm not sure what you mean when you say it's not like WE because WE will work on any brand of Windows. > > Lynne > > On 29 Dec 2011, at 15:37, chris hallsworth wrote: > > Hi Lynn no JFW demo version runs on both 32 and 64 bit Windows. The trick is to download the correct version according to your version of Windows. This is unlike WE or any other screen reader since the one program works on both platforms. I don't know why FS went down this route but there you go. Anyway to be honest I like WE for the most part but because NVDA works with the applications I use on a daily basis I choose to use that as primary and WE for enhanced iTunes experience or apps that NVDA just cannot cope with, which is fewer and fewer as each new release comes out. > > On 29/12/2011 15:14, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: >> Hello Chris >> >> Well, I can't actually try JFW because the demo version is only 32-bit and ours is the 64-bit version of Windows. Maybe it will work; but again, we have Ultimate and the demo page seems to indicate that it only works on Home basic and Home Premium. >> >> Window-Eyes doesn't to my knowledge allow you to see the design of a website which is a huge oversight in my opinion. Not to worry; I've downloaded NVDA and once we figure out how to configure and use Braille displays with it, we'll most likely stop using WE for the most part. Gordon was saying yesterday that he agrees with those who are less than impressed with the new version of WE. In fact, it seems to have gone down the pan since 7.0 if all the testimonials I've seen are to be believe, rather than the somewhat antiquated write-up on the GW Micro website. >> >> Lynne >> >> >> On 29 Dec 2011, at 12:38, chris hallsworth wrote: >> >> Hello Lynn well JFW does the same thing as Window-Eyes in terms of web pages. You can however change this somewhere. You are looking for document presentation. Change that to use screen layout. >> >> On 29/12/2011 06:06, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: >>> Hello Chris >>> >>> NVDA seems far more object orientated than either of the big two. I really don't mean to offend; but this is one of those instances where vision is a very definite advantage in terms of assessing accessibility. Window-Eyes changes your web page into a vertical sheet of paper, in effect, made from electrons. Each "Line" can contain a link or other element. In the object-orientated environment, however, links are usually situated side-by-side, often with other text or elements, and with title tooltips so that when you hover the mouse over the link, other information appears. Window-Eyes doesn't even seem to read out the tooltip info without additional interaction. I'd have to check, and I will; but I seem to remember that NVDA does do that. >>> >>> I am starting to think I need to try JFW, just to see what all the fuss is about. I am going to do that this morning too. I have some free time, so why not use it to further my knowledge. >>> >>> I take Paul's well-founded points. Yes, development costs money. But the point I was making was that Apple must surely have incurred the same costs; yet they make their screen-reader available free of charge. My criticism was aimed towards Microsoft primarily; rather than the access companies. However, I do believe that they do over-charge. I accept the point about market sizes; but manufacturers of monitors etc. face stiff competition. They too have to develop their products; yet their prices aren't in the thousands. >>> >>> Lynne >>> >>> On 29 Dec 2011, at 04:57, Chris Johnson wrote: >>> >>> Golly, >>> This thread has read like a battle field. >>> >>> I like what Paul said about the expenses that a company must go through to output a quality product. And if wasn't for their effort and all those who DECIDED to buy their products, hence supporting their further research and development, all these free and great screenreaders and such that we have today wouldn't be what they are. >>> >>> that being said. >>> NVDA works great with Thunderbird and is much more "Maclike" than other screenreaders (e.g. H for headings and other commands similar to Voiceover when in Browse mode, for example). >>> >>> >>> ======================================= >>> >>> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free >>> >>> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at >>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat >>> >>> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: >>> >>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html >>> >>> Or: >>> >>> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: >>> >>> >>> --------------------------------------- >>> >> >> ======================================= >> >> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free >> >> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat >> >> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: >> >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html >> >> Or: >> >> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: >> >> >> --------------------------------------- >> >> >> ======================================= >> >> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free >> >> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat >> >> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: >> >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html >> >> Or: >> >> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: >> >> >> --------------------------------------- >> > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- > ======================================= The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html Or: you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: --------------------------------------- From roger.firman at btinternet.com Thu Dec 29 19:54:19 2011 From: roger.firman at btinternet.com (Roger Firman) Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2011 19:54:19 -0000 Subject: USB To Parallel Cable Still Not Working In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hello Lynne, If I can be of further help, please let me know. Kind regards, Roger. From allynstansfield at yahoo.co.uk Fri Dec 30 02:03:11 2011 From: allynstansfield at yahoo.co.uk (Allyn Stansfield) Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2011 02:03:11 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Blogging In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1325210591.87567.YahooMailNeo@web24702.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Hey guys, ? It's quite ironic that this topic should come up, as this is something in which I have been meaning to ask on here for a few days, but thought I would leave it until after the holidays. ? I'm really interested in Web Development, I know a lot of html and I know basic css and php, but not enough to build a site from scratch, unless it's just html or using a CMS. I don't really know anything about Accessible Web Development, despite being registered blind myself. ? However, I would like to know a few things, firstly has anybody got any advice or good resources about Web Accessibility and not just for the Visually Impaired, but for everybody? I have a project in mind which I think would be a brilliant idea, but it's vital that I have a fully accessible website, preferably WordPress, that is easy to edit, blog, have a back end forum and other communication facilities, including a private message facility, that are all fully accessible. This as you can imagine is a seriously hard task to meet, especially on a low budget. I have been offered the opportunity to purchase the theme of lflegal.com?for $400 which is WACG 2.0 AAA compliant. However, it's the old style theme so it wouldn't work with Wordpress 3.x as the modifications would no longer work. I have also found a fairly accessible punBB forum for the back end, but it's not perfect. I really want a fully accessible, up-to-date, easy to edit, search engine friendly website. ? If you have any advice it would be much appreciated. ? Secondly, can any of you give any good advice or resources for undertaking Freelancing Projects? I don't want to know about eLance, Guru, Getafreelancer, Rentacoder, etc. I've already undertaken several projects in the past, I'm refering more to advice and resources about how to get more clients and win more projects, etc. Also, bare in mind that my previous experiences were when my vision was significantly better than it is now. ? Finally, I don't really find things like Dreamweaver that accessible when using High Contrast desktop themes, so any advice about this sort of thing would be much appreciated too. ? As I've said, I'm not new to this sort of thing at all, but I only have an overview of things, I'm not an exper and I'm not a programming genius. I have an AS Level in ICT, which was accomplished mainly by using the full range of programs that are included within the Microsoft Office Suite and researching, using the Internet. In addition to this, I am currently studying a Business and Law BA (Hons) degree, via distance learning, at the Open University, which is primarily done online. I have also undertaken frequent freelance Web Development projects, such as website, blog, forum, article, content and press release creation and submission, web hosting, email and webmail setup, search engine optimization and submission, directory submission, RSS feed submission and social media marketing services. In addition to this, I have an extensive knowledge of HTML and computer-based Content Management Systems and Blogging Platforms. I also have a basic knowledge of CSS, PHP and JavaScript. Furthermore, I am very experienced in system and server maintenance, repair and restorations, and I am also an extremely efficient and self-taught touch-typist. ? Seasons Greetings to you all. ? Thanks. ? Allyn Stansfield. ? From: Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith To: Techno-Chat ... Technology Enthusiasm! Sent: Thursday, 29 December 2011, 2:32 Subject: Blogging Hello everybody Gordon and I are having another horrible night; so instead of watching him try in vain to settle, we've both come downstairs to do bits of work on respective projects. However, one project in which we both have an interest is our blogs. I'm interested to know, if anybody can tell me, how other vision impaired people handle themes for their blogs. WordPress doesn't seem to be particularly conducive towards accessibility in its themes so I just wondered what others changed to makes their blogs more accessible. Any info greatly appreciated. Lynne ======================================= The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html Or: you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.? The feed is at: --------------------------------------- From lynne at mac-access.net Fri Dec 30 10:37:29 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2011 10:37:29 +0000 Subject: Techno-Chat Resources Message-ID: <2720F73F-5429-4B8C-87D8-68A1E5FA3CCF@mac-access.net> Hello everybody I just wondered whether anybody on list might be interested in contributing to one or both of the resources we are working on as part of the Techno-Chat project. First, the Techno-Chat blog; we'll be posting its URL shortly and we wondered whether anybody might be interested in contributing. Secondly, the Techno-Chat podcast; we are also looking for audio and, if anybody is interested in doing it, video contributions. If anybody would like to get involved, first accept our thanks, and second contact We're hoping that these resources will become an integral and valuable part of the project. We're not biassed in any way regarding content or contributors; this project is not exclusively restricted to, or even about, the visually impaired; although those people with a visual impairment or other disability are, of course, more than welcome. Lynne From lynne at mac-access.net Fri Dec 30 12:33:06 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2011 12:33:06 +0000 Subject: USB To Parallel Cable Still Not Working In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9B1BAF4C-8F0E-4892-A551-9648A7C7777E@mac-access.net> Hello Roger On 29 Dec 2011, at 19:54, Roger Firman wrote: ? If I can be of further help, please let me know. Thank you. We plan to test this again today; only this time I'll let Gordon loose on it as well and see if he can come up with anything. I'll advise the group on whether or not he gets it to work. Lynne From lynne at mac-access.net Fri Dec 30 12:37:21 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2011 12:37:21 +0000 Subject: Blogging In-Reply-To: <1325210591.87567.YahooMailNeo@web24702.mail.ird.yahoo.com> References: <1325210591.87567.YahooMailNeo@web24702.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6674346A-2451-455A-841C-02E37F7576F7@mac-access.net> Hello Allyn I just wanted to say that if we can help with website hosting, we offer that to the visually impaired free of charge. We could also provide you with an email group should you wish it. You'd have full control over the group with as little or much help from us in the configuration of the list as you dictate. Please let us know off list if you're interested at all. Lynne On 30 Dec 2011, at 02:03, Allyn Stansfield wrote: Hey guys, It's quite ironic that this topic should come up, as this is something in which I have been meaning to ask on here for a few days, but thought I would leave it until after the holidays. I'm really interested in Web Development, I know a lot of html and I know basic css and php, but not enough to build a site from scratch, unless it's just html or using a CMS. I don't really know anything about Accessible Web Development, despite being registered blind myself. However, I would like to know a few things, firstly has anybody got any advice or good resources about Web Accessibility and not just for the Visually Impaired, but for everybody? I have a project in mind which I think would be a brilliant idea, but it's vital that I have a fully accessible website, preferably WordPress, that is easy to edit, blog, have a back end forum and other communication facilities, including a private message facility, that are all fully accessible. This as you can imagine is a seriously hard task to meet, especially on a low budget. I have been offered the opportunity to purchase the theme of lflegal.com for $400 which is WACG 2.0 AAA compliant. However, it's the old style theme so it wouldn't work with Wordpress 3.x as the modifications would no longer work. I have also found a fairly accessible punBB forum for the back end, but it's not perfect. I really want a fully accessible, up-to-date, easy to edit, search engine friendly website. If you have any advice it would be much appreciated. Secondly, can any of you give any good advice or resources for undertaking Freelancing Projects? I don't want to know about eLance, Guru, Getafreelancer, Rentacoder, etc. I've already undertaken several projects in the past, I'm refering more to advice and resources about how to get more clients and win more projects, etc. Also, bare in mind that my previous experiences were when my vision was significantly better than it is now. Finally, I don't really find things like Dreamweaver that accessible when using High Contrast desktop themes, so any advice about this sort of thing would be much appreciated too. As I've said, I'm not new to this sort of thing at all, but I only have an overview of things, I'm not an exper and I'm not a programming genius. I have an AS Level in ICT, which was accomplished mainly by using the full range of programs that are included within the Microsoft Office Suite and researching, using the Internet. In addition to this, I am currently studying a Business and Law BA (Hons) degree, via distance learning, at the Open University, which is primarily done online. I have also undertaken frequent freelance Web Development projects, such as website, blog, forum, article, content and press release creation and submission, web hosting, email and webmail setup, search engine optimization and submission, directory submission, RSS feed submission and social media marketing services. In addition to this, I have an extensive knowledge of HTML and computer-based Content Management Systems and Blogging Platforms. I also have a basic knowledge of CSS, PHP and JavaScript. Furthermore, I am very experienced in system and server maintenance, repair and restorations, and I am also an extremely efficient and self-taught touch-typist. Seasons Greetings to you all. Thanks. Allyn Stansfield. From: Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith To: Techno-Chat ... Technology Enthusiasm! Sent: Thursday, 29 December 2011, 2:32 Subject: Blogging Hello everybody Gordon and I are having another horrible night; so instead of watching him try in vain to settle, we've both come downstairs to do bits of work on respective projects. However, one project in which we both have an interest is our blogs. I'm interested to know, if anybody can tell me, how other vision impaired people handle themes for their blogs. WordPress doesn't seem to be particularly conducive towards accessibility in its themes so I just wondered what others changed to makes their blogs more accessible. Any info greatly appreciated. Lynne ======================================= The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html Or: you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: --------------------------------------- ======================================= The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html Or: you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: --------------------------------------- From lynne at mac-access.net Fri Dec 30 13:13:20 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2011 13:13:20 +0000 Subject: JFW Message-ID: <87E8D8A9-7674-43A8-A1D2-DB7BB2398488@mac-access.net> Hello everybody OK, Gordon and I, not just myself, are about to try JFW. Given that we're totally new to the product, is there anything specific we should know? How, for instance, do we browse the screen? What about Gordon's Blue Tooth Humanware Brailliant 40 Braille display; will it work? Lynne From roger.firman at btinternet.com Fri Dec 30 15:14:40 2011 From: roger.firman at btinternet.com (Roger Firman) Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2011 15:14:40 -0000 Subject: JFW In-Reply-To: <87E8D8A9-7674-43A8-A1D2-DB7BB2398488@mac-access.net> Message-ID: Hello Lynne, As I understand it, the Humanware Brailliant BI 40 cell braille display will work with JAWS version 10 and above. I'm not sure if that is the display Gordon has or not? Other things with JAWS: Depending upon which version, to get it going after initially either putting the CD in, or running a downloaded file, it might need a hand to get going, but it might not. Reading can be done with cursor-keys and the tab-key. Additionally, using the keys on a desktop keypad, lower-left and top-right should say JAWS to pc. Key next down from top right will then say PC. Top right alone will say JAWS. >From the JAWS menu, ensure JAWS is set to start automatically when booting up the computer, unless for any reason you don't want this to happen. >From the desktop with JAWS highlighted, pressing the alt-key and enter-key enable the user to set a key-combination if JAWS has been unloaded but the PC is still running. Although brief, I hope the above may be of some help. Roger. From d.griffith at btinternet.com Fri Dec 30 17:25:02 2011 From: d.griffith at btinternet.com (David Griffith) Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2011 17:25:02 -0000 Subject: JFW In-Reply-To: <87E8D8A9-7674-43A8-A1D2-DB7BB2398488@mac-access.net> References: <87E8D8A9-7674-43A8-A1D2-DB7BB2398488@mac-access.net> Message-ID: <369902AEDDDB4AE5A6200F8485B11521@acer4d025c48b8> I am sure that if you have been comfortable using NVDA JFW will feel comfortable as far as I can see the keys are about 95% identical. Like NVDA insert or if you are laptop layout caps lock plus 1 will toggle keyboard help on and off. The main difference is in screen review. Jaws uses something called the Jaws cursor which is the equivalent I think of what is described as the Mouse cursor in Windows Eyes. Below is a short summary of the Jaws cursor from memory. To turn Jaws Cursor on press num pad minus or caps lock plus P in laptop layout. To turn normal PC cursor back on press num pad plus or caps lock plus semi colon in ;laptop layout. You can restrict the Jaws cursor to various window settings such as focus window current window real window or unrestricted. I normally maximize windows and use unrestricted if I am using the Jaws cursor . You can toggle these restriction settings by pressing jaws key plus R to cycle through the available options. The other access feature of Jaws is the virtual window. This converts all the text on the screen into a virtual window. I believe this has been enhanced in Jaws 13. basically you press Jaws key plus alt plus W to create this virtual window. You can select and copy all the produced text onto the clipboard. This is useful if you want to get access to text which is not normally spellable or editable with Jaws. You can also use it on a directory to get all the available filenames for example. Voiceover actually does a much better job of this kind of thing actually but I find this jaws feature useful in Windows . David Griffith -----Original Message----- From: techno-chat-bounces at techno-chat.net [mailto:techno-chat-bounces at techno-chat.net] On Behalf Of Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith Sent: 30 December 2011 13:13 To: Techno-Chat ... Technology Enthusiasm! Subject: JFW Hello everybody OK, Gordon and I, not just myself, are about to try JFW. Given that we're totally new to the product, is there anything specific we should know? How, for instance, do we browse the screen? What about Gordon's Blue Tooth Humanware Brailliant 40 Braille display; will it work? Lynne ======================================= The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html Or: you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: --------------------------------------- From grtdane at internode.on.net Fri Dec 30 17:33:08 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2011 04:33:08 +1100 Subject: JFW In-Reply-To: <369902AEDDDB4AE5A6200F8485B11521@acer4d025c48b8> References: <87E8D8A9-7674-43A8-A1D2-DB7BB2398488@mac-access.net> <369902AEDDDB4AE5A6200F8485B11521@acer4d025c48b8> Message-ID: <19CF0077-DC96-43D8-BCC2-BE7BCDB901AF@internode.on.net> I'm far from an experienced JFW user but the thing which really impressed me when I used it was how seamlessly Internet Explorer ran. For example there was nont much of the "loading page" stuff you got with WE and pages were displayed fairly quickly. Then when it came to form filling JFW would allow one to fill in the edit boxes when one came to them without having to issue any extra commands, this is what users want surely! being able to browse a page and fill in forms where appropriate with a minimum of fuss and certainly JFW gave me that. I'm told that - when using Thunderbird with JFW - some customisation of the email client is recommended to use JFW at its optimum with the software? Well I'm not sure what those customisations are and I'll attempt to find out but everything seemed to work here right out of the box without any hitches which is more than I can say for WE at the present. Sent from my iPad On 31/12/2011, at 4:25 AM, "David Griffith" wrote: > I am sure that if you have been comfortable using NVDA JFW will feel > comfortable as far as I can see the keys are about 95% identical. > Like NVDA insert or if you are laptop layout caps lock plus 1 will toggle > keyboard help on and off. > The main difference is in screen review. Jaws uses something called the Jaws > cursor which is the equivalent I think of what is described as the Mouse > cursor in Windows Eyes. > > Below is a short summary of the Jaws cursor from memory. > > To turn Jaws Cursor on press num pad minus or caps lock plus P in laptop > layout. > To turn normal PC cursor back on press num pad plus or caps lock plus semi > colon in ;laptop layout. > > You can restrict the Jaws cursor to various window settings such as focus > window current window real window or unrestricted. I normally maximize > windows and use unrestricted if I am using the Jaws cursor . You can toggle > these restriction settings by pressing jaws key plus R to cycle through the > available options. > The other access feature of Jaws is the virtual window. This converts all > the text on the screen into a virtual window. I believe this has been > enhanced in Jaws 13. basically you press Jaws key plus alt plus W to create > this virtual window. You can select and copy all the produced text onto the > clipboard. This is useful if you want to get access to text which is not > normally spellable or editable with Jaws. You can also use it on a directory > to get all the available filenames for example. Voiceover actually does a > much better job of this kind of thing actually but I find this jaws feature > useful in Windows . > > David Griffith > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: techno-chat-bounces at techno-chat.net > [mailto:techno-chat-bounces at techno-chat.net] On Behalf Of Mrs. Lynnette > Annabel Smith > Sent: 30 December 2011 13:13 > To: Techno-Chat ... Technology Enthusiasm! > Subject: JFW > > Hello everybody > > OK, Gordon and I, not just myself, are about to try JFW. Given that we're > totally new to the product, is there anything specific we should know? How, > for instance, do we browse the screen? What about Gordon's Blue Tooth > Humanware Brailliant 40 Braille display; will it work? > > Lynne > > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus > and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web > pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at > either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- From marrie12 at gmail.com Fri Dec 30 17:44:45 2011 From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah Alawami) Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2011 09:44:45 -0800 Subject: Blogging In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9FC3BD4F-1DC6-40A5-A6AD-CF136343E5C9@gmail.com> I use the twenty10 wordpress theme. It's accessible and if you turn off java script you can move the menues around so that they are the way you want them. I have managed to do this on my music page that I"m currently working on and another project I'm working on as well. If you know php you can edit the theme to your liking and make a child theme. See the word press code page for doing that. It's not the theme that needs work it's the 303 update that needs a lot of work actually. I've in discussion with them now regarding this and so are several blind and vi people as well. but all in all it's a great great platform both for blogs and CMS and the best thing it's plugin driven. I have a myriad of pluggins and am about to when I actually wake up put a review of one of them on youtube. You can customize your theme's color through the style.css file or again do it via the child theme like I did so when you update your theme you won't loose changes. I know this did not answer your question and I"m still learning wp but I am loving every minute of it and I did not think I'd love every minute of coding. Oh btw go to profile after you log in to your panel and change the thing to classic editor. You will notice a change there. I did several youtube presentations on wordpress but watch the first one found at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90MVig5PiDE I try my best to be clear and I use fantastico to set up the mysql crap. lol! I don't go over that as it's straight forward. Take care all. Sarah Alawami If you need an edit done on a small project go to http://music.marrie.org/master for more info. If you need to contact me my info is below. MSN and AIM: marrie12 at gmail.com website: http://music.marrie.org Podcast: http://tffp.marrie.org/podcast youtube: http://youtube.com/marrie125 On Dec 28, 2011, at 6:32 PM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: > Hello everybody > > Gordon and I are having another horrible night; so instead of watching him try in vain to settle, we've both come downstairs to do bits of work on respective projects. > > However, one project in which we both have an interest is our blogs. I'm interested to know, if anybody can tell me, how other vision impaired people handle themes for their blogs. WordPress doesn't seem to be particularly conducive towards accessibility in its themes so I just wondered what others changed to makes their blogs more accessible. > > Any info greatly appreciated. > > Lynne > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- From marrie12 at gmail.com Fri Dec 30 17:50:07 2011 From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah Alawami) Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2011 09:50:07 -0800 Subject: JFW In-Reply-To: <19CF0077-DC96-43D8-BCC2-BE7BCDB901AF@internode.on.net> References: <87E8D8A9-7674-43A8-A1D2-DB7BB2398488@mac-access.net> <369902AEDDDB4AE5A6200F8485B11521@acer4d025c48b8> <19CF0077-DC96-43D8-BCC2-BE7BCDB901AF@internode.on.net> Message-ID: <25C76F08-E785-4442-85C8-39A5A4F3BF25@gmail.com> Be aware though that you will have 2 seprate prices for upgrades last I remember. For regular jaws you will have I think it's $180 and for the professional jaws which will run on xp pro and I think win7 pro it will be I think $280. YOu only get 3 upgrades per SMA and don't miss a renewal or or your price will double. Take care. On Dec 30, 2011, at 9:33 AM, Dane Trethowan wrote: > I'm far from an experienced JFW user but the thing which really impressed me when I used it was how seamlessly Internet Explorer ran. > > For example there was nont much of the "loading page" stuff you got with WE and pages were displayed fairly quickly. > > Then when it came to form filling JFW would allow one to fill in the edit boxes when one came to them without having to issue any extra commands, this is what users want surely! being able to browse a page and fill in forms where appropriate with a minimum of fuss and certainly JFW gave me that. > > I'm told that - when using Thunderbird with JFW - some customisation of the email client is recommended to use JFW at its optimum with the software? Well I'm not sure what those customisations are and I'll attempt to find out but everything seemed to work here right out of the box without any hitches which is more than I can say for WE at the present. > > > > Sent from my iPad > > On 31/12/2011, at 4:25 AM, "David Griffith" wrote: > >> I am sure that if you have been comfortable using NVDA JFW will feel >> comfortable as far as I can see the keys are about 95% identical. >> Like NVDA insert or if you are laptop layout caps lock plus 1 will toggle >> keyboard help on and off. >> The main difference is in screen review. Jaws uses something called the Jaws >> cursor which is the equivalent I think of what is described as the Mouse >> cursor in Windows Eyes. >> >> Below is a short summary of the Jaws cursor from memory. >> >> To turn Jaws Cursor on press num pad minus or caps lock plus P in laptop >> layout. >> To turn normal PC cursor back on press num pad plus or caps lock plus semi >> colon in ;laptop layout. >> >> You can restrict the Jaws cursor to various window settings such as focus >> window current window real window or unrestricted. I normally maximize >> windows and use unrestricted if I am using the Jaws cursor . You can toggle >> these restriction settings by pressing jaws key plus R to cycle through the >> available options. >> The other access feature of Jaws is the virtual window. This converts all >> the text on the screen into a virtual window. I believe this has been >> enhanced in Jaws 13. basically you press Jaws key plus alt plus W to create >> this virtual window. You can select and copy all the produced text onto the >> clipboard. This is useful if you want to get access to text which is not >> normally spellable or editable with Jaws. You can also use it on a directory >> to get all the available filenames for example. Voiceover actually does a >> much better job of this kind of thing actually but I find this jaws feature >> useful in Windows . >> >> David Griffith >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: techno-chat-bounces at techno-chat.net >> [mailto:techno-chat-bounces at techno-chat.net] On Behalf Of Mrs. Lynnette >> Annabel Smith >> Sent: 30 December 2011 13:13 >> To: Techno-Chat ... Technology Enthusiasm! >> Subject: JFW >> >> Hello everybody >> >> OK, Gordon and I, not just myself, are about to try JFW. Given that we're >> totally new to the product, is there anything specific we should know? How, >> for instance, do we browse the screen? What about Gordon's Blue Tooth >> Humanware Brailliant 40 Braille display; will it work? >> >> Lynne >> >> >> >> ======================================= >> >> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus >> and worm-free >> >> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web >> pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat >> >> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at >> either of the following websites: >> >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html >> >> Or: >> >> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: >> >> >> --------------------------------------- >> >> >> ======================================= >> >> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free >> >> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat >> >> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: >> >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html >> >> Or: >> >> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: >> >> >> --------------------------------------- > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- From chris.hallsworth at techno-chat.net Fri Dec 30 18:02:01 2011 From: chris.hallsworth at techno-chat.net (chris hallsworth) Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2011 18:02:01 +0000 Subject: JFW In-Reply-To: <19CF0077-DC96-43D8-BCC2-BE7BCDB901AF@internode.on.net> References: <87E8D8A9-7674-43A8-A1D2-DB7BB2398488@mac-access.net> <369902AEDDDB4AE5A6200F8485B11521@acer4d025c48b8> <19CF0077-DC96-43D8-BCC2-BE7BCDB901AF@internode.on.net> Message-ID: <4EFDFC99.5000705@techno-chat.net> This is similar to NVDA. It loads web pages as quickly as possible and one can fill out edit fields without extra keystrokes. On 30/12/2011 17:33, Dane Trethowan wrote: > I'm far from an experienced JFW user but the thing which really impressed me when I used it was how seamlessly Internet Explorer ran. > > For example there was nont much of the "loading page" stuff you got with WE and pages were displayed fairly quickly. > > Then when it came to form filling JFW would allow one to fill in the edit boxes when one came to them without having to issue any extra commands, this is what users want surely! being able to browse a page and fill in forms where appropriate with a minimum of fuss and certainly JFW gave me that. > > I'm told that - when using Thunderbird with JFW - some customisation of the email client is recommended to use JFW at its optimum with the software? Well I'm not sure what those customisations are and I'll attempt to find out but everything seemed to work here right out of the box without any hitches which is more than I can say for WE at the present. > > > > Sent from my iPad > > On 31/12/2011, at 4:25 AM, "David Griffith" wrote: > >> I am sure that if you have been comfortable using NVDA JFW will feel >> comfortable as far as I can see the keys are about 95% identical. >> Like NVDA insert or if you are laptop layout caps lock plus 1 will toggle >> keyboard help on and off. >> The main difference is in screen review. Jaws uses something called the Jaws >> cursor which is the equivalent I think of what is described as the Mouse >> cursor in Windows Eyes. >> >> Below is a short summary of the Jaws cursor from memory. >> >> To turn Jaws Cursor on press num pad minus or caps lock plus P in laptop >> layout. >> To turn normal PC cursor back on press num pad plus or caps lock plus semi >> colon in ;laptop layout. >> >> You can restrict the Jaws cursor to various window settings such as focus >> window current window real window or unrestricted. I normally maximize >> windows and use unrestricted if I am using the Jaws cursor . You can toggle >> these restriction settings by pressing jaws key plus R to cycle through the >> available options. >> The other access feature of Jaws is the virtual window. This converts all >> the text on the screen into a virtual window. I believe this has been >> enhanced in Jaws 13. basically you press Jaws key plus alt plus W to create >> this virtual window. You can select and copy all the produced text onto the >> clipboard. This is useful if you want to get access to text which is not >> normally spellable or editable with Jaws. You can also use it on a directory >> to get all the available filenames for example. Voiceover actually does a >> much better job of this kind of thing actually but I find this jaws feature >> useful in Windows . >> >> David Griffith >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: techno-chat-bounces at techno-chat.net >> [mailto:techno-chat-bounces at techno-chat.net] On Behalf Of Mrs. Lynnette >> Annabel Smith >> Sent: 30 December 2011 13:13 >> To: Techno-Chat ... Technology Enthusiasm! >> Subject: JFW >> >> Hello everybody >> >> OK, Gordon and I, not just myself, are about to try JFW. Given that we're >> totally new to the product, is there anything specific we should know? How, >> for instance, do we browse the screen? What about Gordon's Blue Tooth >> Humanware Brailliant 40 Braille display; will it work? >> >> Lynne >> >> >> >> ======================================= >> >> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus >> and worm-free >> >> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web >> pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat >> >> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at >> either of the following websites: >> >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html >> >> Or: >> >> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: >> >> >> --------------------------------------- >> >> >> ======================================= >> >> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free >> >> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat >> >> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: >> >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html >> >> Or: >> >> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: >> >> >> --------------------------------------- > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- > From martin at x.it.okstate.edu Fri Dec 30 18:35:50 2011 From: martin at x.it.okstate.edu (Martin McCormick) Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2011 12:35:50 -0600 Subject: Screen-Readers Message-ID: <201112301835.pBUIZoB0036985@x.it.okstate.edu> I think what Lynn and those of us who do not defend the status quo are saying is that we know all this economy of scale explanation. I wish I had a Penny for every time I have heard why JAWS and WE cost more than the work stations they run on and they represent running meters that keep costing and costing. When they don't work, you pay. When they do work, you pay. It's lovely for the developers and stinks for everybody else. Apple also has development costs for Voiceover, but since it is built in, everybody pays for it when they buy a Mac or other Apple product. The difference is that the economy of scale is spread out over millions of users and becomes an insignificant cost to each user. Everybody wins and you have ubiquity in that I could walk up to a strange person's Mac and use Voiceover if needed. Try doing that with Windows. The model presently in effect for Windows is fundamentally unsustainable as Windows screen readers get more and more expensive. That's what's really broken. We can get angry at Freedom Scientific or Humanware, but what's really wrong is Microsoft's decision many years ago not to produce a screen reader but to let a chosen few businesses produce it for sale as an extra-cost item. That is just wrong and I am surprised it still goes on. We need a cure for the common cold, many other human conditions and the idea that the Windows model for access is good. It's like a lot that is wrong in the world. It benefits a few at the expense of many and has been around long enough that we except it as just the way things are. Human slavery was similarly excepted as was drawing and quartering and the idea that people of specific ethnic or racial heritage couldn't hold certain jobs. There were always over-payed oafs in dress clothing standing around pontificating on why the very fabric of society would fall apart if things changed. Things changed and society adjusted. Sorry for the soap-box rant, but I can't defend what seems totally wrong. Maybe I am wrong, but when I see how Apple put Voiceover on their whole line of i products, it seems like a sea change and it is the way things should be. Microsoft also owns its operating system just like Apple owns OSX. Microsoft could have built a true screen reader in to Windows and their portable devices but consciously chose not to. That's the difference. Otherwise, they are both mass-market operating systems with one being already accessible and the other one not so without extra cost and effort. Why is this even defensable? Martin Dane Trethowan writes: > And what's Apple got to do with Window-Eyes? > > We're talking too completely different scenarios here it seems. > > Apple are developing their computers, their operating system and so on > thus its easier for the company to incorporate such useful features such > as a Screen Reading solution, a magnifier or whatever else into an > operating system as they've done. > > Gw Micro, Freedom Scientific and the rest are third party developers who > have to work within the framework as set down by Microsoft so I would > imagine that this restriction hampers developers somewhat thus extra time > has to be spent on the development of a Screen reading system, not to > mention the fact that accessibility for the Windows operating system > itself seems to be going backwards these days and that's not a fault of > the Screen Reader developers rather its a fault of Microsoft. > > As for more and more blind people using Apple Computers with Voiceover? > That's a very bold claim and I've certainly seen no data to support it, > Apple still have quite a long way to go and I'm sure they'll get there > eventually, look at how far JFW has come over 10 years. > > Fact is that integration between a Mac and Windows is still a problem in > some areas and a classic example of this can be found with Microsoft > Office documents, the whole Microsoft suite is accessible under windows > and one could say - for better or for worse - that the Microsoft Office > suite is a standard so far so good. > > When you come to using a Microsoft Office document on a Mac - > particularly if you're using Voiceover - then its an entirely different > and sometimes complex ball game. > > Microsoft Office isn't accessible on the Mac so that's the first major > handicap so the only solutions from here are third party applications and > some are more successful with Microsoft Office files than others, as I > understand it Nisus Writer Pro for example handles Microsoft Word > Documents than does Pages but neither handle them with 100% accuracy. > > > On 28/12/2011, at 5:45 AM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: > > > Hello Paul > > > > I'm not in a position to argue the exact stats and figures, so I > wouldn't like to in any way contradict your quotes. However, Apple has > shown what's possible if the developer is prepared to play ball, so to > speak. The number of vision impaired people using their products is > rising rapidly; even Freedom Scientific's own vice president is an iPhone > user I believe. So although I see your point, I really think it's a case > of milking the customer for all they can get. > > > > Lynne > > > > > > On 27 Dec 2011, at 17:52, Paul Hopewell wrote: > > > > HI Lynne, > > Although WindowEyes may seem expensive it and other assistive > technology products have a small market compared with mainstream > software. Last time I looked the GWMicro team was about 20 strong and > they all have to be paid. The cost of employing each person could be > around 100 K dollars including costs like office space. to support this > GWMicro has to make around 2 million dollars a year, which means they > have to sell around 4000 copies of WindowEyes a year. Software pricing > critically depends on sales volumes which will always be small for > specialised areas like assistive technology. > > Now to someone like Apple or even Microsoft 2 million dollars a year is > a small sum which they can easily absorb. the only way to get affordable > assistive technology is for it to be included in mainstream products like > Apple or for it to b provided in a not for profit way like NVDA and > Thunder. The latter though cannot bring sufficient resources to bear to > keep their offerings fully up to date with the ever changing user > environment. > > So lets not be too harsh on GWMicro.! > > Best regards.... From grtdane at internode.on.net Fri Dec 30 18:36:54 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2011 05:36:54 +1100 Subject: Weather Station Finally On Its way Message-ID: <4EFE04C6.6080907@internode.on.net> Subject line says it all, should have this on Tuesday or Wednesday next week. I won't be using the software that comes with the station as I have another quite accessible alternative to use called Cumulus, this software will publish the data from the station to various places including Twitter, Facebook, the web etc, if you follow me @grtdane on Twitter then you'll see that I'm following the progress of my friend's weather station in Queensland, he's set his to publish updates every 15 minutes. Below is a summary of what this kit has to offer, its not the most expensive Weather Station around but for the $85.00 I paid I think it offers great vallue for the buck . You will be able to get almost all of your local weather data within your yard with this weather station. All weather data could be upload to your PC and processed and displayed with Easy Weather software. Functions: 1) USB port for easy connection to your PC 2) All the weather data from the base station and weather history data with user adjustable measuring intervals can be recorded and uploaded to your PC 3) Free PC software for transfer weather data to PC, support Windows 2000, XP, Vista and Windows 7 4) Rainfall data (inches or millimeters): 1-hour, 24-hour, one week, one month and total since last reset. 5) Wind chill and Dew point temperature display (?F or ?C) 6)Records min. and max. wind chill and Dew point with time and date stamp 7) Wind speed (mph, m/s, km/h, knots, Beaufort) 8) Wind direction display with LCD compass 9) Weather forecast tendency arrow 10) Weather alarm modes for: a) Temperature b) Humidity c) Wind chill d) Dew point e) Rainfall f) Wind speed g) Air pressure h) Storm warning 11) Forecast icons based on changing barometric pressure 12) Barometric pressure (inHg or hPa) with 0.1hPa resolution 13) Wireless outdoor and indoor humidity (% RH) 14) Records min. and max. humidity with time and date stamp 15) Wireless outdoor and indoor temperature (? F or ?C) 16) Records min. and max. temperature with time and date stamp 17) Time and date manual setting 18) 12 or 24-hour time display 19) Perpetual calendar 20) Time zone setting 21) Time alarm 22) High light LED backlight 23) Wall hanging or free standing 24) Synchronized instant reception 25) Low power consumption (over 2 years battery life for transmitter) Specifications: 1) Outdoor temperature range: -40.0?C to + 65.0?C (-40?F to +149?F) 2) Indoor temperature range: 0?C to + 50.0?C (32?F to +122?F) 3) Humidity range: 10% to 99% (1% resolution) 4) Rain volume display: 0 - 9999mm (show OFL if outside range) Resolution : 0.3mm (if rain volume < 1000mm); 1mm (if rain volume > 1000mm) 5) Wind speed: 0~100mph (show OFL if outside range) 6) Measuring range air pressure: 27.13inHg - 31.89inHg Resolution : 0.01inHg 7) Alarm duration : 120 sec 8) Transmission range up to 100m (330 feet) 9) Power consumption: a) Receiver: 3 x AA alkaline batteries (not included) b) Sensor WH7: 2 x AA alkaline batteries (not included) 10) Transmission frequency: 433MHz Easy weather software on Windows 7 : Package: 1) Receiver (Base station) 2) Four outdoor sensors (thermo-hydro transmitter, wind speed sensor, wind direction sensor, and rain gauge) 3) Mounting kits 4) Software CD 5) USB cable 6) Quality colour Box -- Dane Trethowan From Melton Victoria Australia skype callto:grtdane12 MSN: grtdane at dane-trethowan.net From grtdane at internode.on.net Fri Dec 30 18:41:20 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2011 05:41:20 +1100 Subject: Screen-Readers In-Reply-To: <201112301835.pBUIZoB0036985@x.it.okstate.edu> References: <201112301835.pBUIZoB0036985@x.it.okstate.edu> Message-ID: <4EFE05D0.4050409@internode.on.net> I did some simple calculations and - unless I'm doing something radically wrong - then it seems to me that a company called GW Micro would have to sell a high volume of product or sell at a fairly high price in order to pay their staff and I think the figures speak for themselves. Okay supposing you have 20 staff working at a company and each is paid $50,000. then that's a million dollars in wages alone you have to. Then there's your development costs, power bills and other stuff you have to find money for. Given that your market is small? Well you just can't it seems afford to sell your product at a discounted rate. On 31/12/2011 5:35 AM, Martin McCormick wrote: > I think what Lynn and those of us who do not defend the > status quo are saying is that we know all this economy of scale > explanation. I wish I had a Penny for every time I have heard > why JAWS and WE cost more than the work stations they run on and > they represent running meters that keep costing and costing. > When they don't work, you pay. When they do work, you pay. It's > lovely for the developers and stinks for everybody else. > > Apple also has development costs for Voiceover, but > since it is built in, everybody pays for it when they buy a Mac > or other Apple product. The difference is that the economy of > scale is spread out over millions of users and becomes an > insignificant cost to each user. Everybody wins and you have > ubiquity in that I could walk up to a strange person's Mac and > use Voiceover if needed. Try doing that with Windows. > > The model presently in effect for Windows is > fundamentally unsustainable as Windows screen readers get more > and more expensive. That's what's really broken. We can get angry > at Freedom Scientific or Humanware, but what's really wrong is > Microsoft's decision many years ago not to produce a screen > reader but to let a chosen few businesses produce it for sale as > an extra-cost item. That is just wrong and I am surprised it > still goes on. We need a cure for the common cold, many other > human conditions and the idea that the Windows model for access > is good. It's like a lot that is wrong in the world. It benefits > a few at the expense of many and has been around long enough > that we except it as just the way things are. Human slavery was > similarly excepted as was drawing and quartering and the idea > that people of specific ethnic or racial heritage couldn't hold > certain jobs. There were always over-payed oafs in dress > clothing standing around pontificating on why the very fabric of > society would fall apart if things changed. Things changed and > society adjusted. > > Sorry for the soap-box rant, but I can't defend what > seems totally wrong. Maybe I am wrong, but when I see how Apple > put Voiceover on their whole line of i products, it seems like a > sea change and it is the way things should be. > > Microsoft also owns its operating system just like > Apple owns OSX. Microsoft could have built a true screen reader > in to Windows and their portable devices but consciously chose > not to. That's the difference. Otherwise, they are both > mass-market operating systems with one being already accessible > and the other one not so without extra cost and effort. Why is > this even defensable? > > Martin > > Dane Trethowan writes: >> And what's Apple got to do with Window-Eyes? >> >> We're talking too completely different scenarios here it seems. >> >> Apple are developing their computers, their operating system and so on >> thus its easier for the company to incorporate such useful features such >> as a Screen Reading solution, a magnifier or whatever else into an >> operating system as they've done. >> >> Gw Micro, Freedom Scientific and the rest are third party developers who >> have to work within the framework as set down by Microsoft so I would >> imagine that this restriction hampers developers somewhat thus extra time >> has to be spent on the development of a Screen reading system, not to >> mention the fact that accessibility for the Windows operating system >> itself seems to be going backwards these days and that's not a fault of >> the Screen Reader developers rather its a fault of Microsoft. >> >> As for more and more blind people using Apple Computers with Voiceover? >> That's a very bold claim and I've certainly seen no data to support it, >> Apple still have quite a long way to go and I'm sure they'll get there >> eventually, look at how far JFW has come over 10 years. >> >> Fact is that integration between a Mac and Windows is still a problem in >> some areas and a classic example of this can be found with Microsoft >> Office documents, the whole Microsoft suite is accessible under windows >> and one could say - for better or for worse - that the Microsoft Office >> suite is a standard so far so good. >> >> When you come to using a Microsoft Office document on a Mac - >> particularly if you're using Voiceover - then its an entirely different >> and sometimes complex ball game. >> >> Microsoft Office isn't accessible on the Mac so that's the first major >> handicap so the only solutions from here are third party applications and >> some are more successful with Microsoft Office files than others, as I >> understand it Nisus Writer Pro for example handles Microsoft Word >> Documents than does Pages but neither handle them with 100% accuracy. >> >> >> On 28/12/2011, at 5:45 AM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: >> >>> Hello Paul >>> >>> I'm not in a position to argue the exact stats and figures, so I >> wouldn't like to in any way contradict your quotes. However, Apple has >> shown what's possible if the developer is prepared to play ball, so to >> speak. The number of vision impaired people using their products is >> rising rapidly; even Freedom Scientific's own vice president is an iPhone >> user I believe. So although I see your point, I really think it's a case >> of milking the customer for all they can get. >>> Lynne >>> >>> >>> On 27 Dec 2011, at 17:52, Paul Hopewell wrote: >>> >>> HI Lynne, >>> Although WindowEyes may seem expensive it and other assistive >> technology products have a small market compared with mainstream >> software. Last time I looked the GWMicro team was about 20 strong and >> they all have to be paid. The cost of employing each person could be >> around 100 K dollars including costs like office space. to support this >> GWMicro has to make around 2 million dollars a year, which means they >> have to sell around 4000 copies of WindowEyes a year. Software pricing >> critically depends on sales volumes which will always be small for >> specialised areas like assistive technology. >>> Now to someone like Apple or even Microsoft 2 million dollars a year is >> a small sum which they can easily absorb. the only way to get affordable >> assistive technology is for it to be included in mainstream products like >> Apple or for it to b provided in a not for profit way like NVDA and >> Thunder. The latter though cannot bring sufficient resources to bear to >> keep their offerings fully up to date with the ever changing user >> environment. >>> So lets not be too harsh on GWMicro.! >>> Best regards.... > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- -- Dane Trethowan From Melton Victoria Australia skype callto:grtdane12 MSN: grtdane at dane-trethowan.net From lynne at mac-access.net Fri Dec 30 19:15:42 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2011 19:15:42 +0000 Subject: JFW In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <97090BD3-EC79-4B52-8C1F-7CC6C76B5A08@mac-access.net> Hello Roger On 30 Dec 2011, at 15:14, Roger Firman wrote: ? As I understand it, the Humanware Brailliant BI 40 cell braille display will work with JAWS version 10 and above. I'm not sure if that is the display Gordon has or not? Yes; he has the Brailliant 40 which is the one with 40 cells. ? Other things with JAWS: ? Depending upon which version, to get it going after initially either putting the CD in, or running a downloaded file, it might need a hand to get going, but it might not. We've downloaded the 64-bit version of the demo. ? Reading can be done with cursor-keys and the tab-key. Additionally, using the keys on a desktop keypad, lower-left and top-right should say JAWS to pc. Key next down from top right will then say PC. Top right alone will say JAWS. Ours is a laptop actually but it has a 101 key set. The problem is that some of the keys aren't quite in the usual places. But we can work around that. ? From the JAWS menu, ensure JAWS is set to start automatically when booting up the computer, unless for any reason you don't want this to happen. No, definitely we don't want that to happen. It's only a demo so we'd rather start it on demand. We will try it tonight, we got delayed. Lynne From martin at x.it.okstate.edu Fri Dec 30 19:19:37 2011 From: martin at x.it.okstate.edu (Martin McCormick) Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2011 13:19:37 -0600 Subject: Screen-Readers Message-ID: <201112301919.pBUJJbXs037355@x.it.okstate.edu> The way these things should work is that Microsoft licenses let's say JAWS or WE as their official screen reader. It comes with every version of WindowsXYZ sold. The company doing the actual screen reader work is treated as a contractor and gets so much per copy of Windows sold as royalties. That model is quite common in intellectual property dealings and it would probably be more than Freedom or Humanware presently is able to yank out of the blindness community. I totally understand the shark-tank atmosphere that exists with the present model. These companies lead a hard-scrabble existance because of that economy of scale issue. The idea of putting a copy of JAWS or Window-Eyes in every installation of Windows sold would fix a lot of issues for end users so why not just do it? Presently, the idea is to assume that everybody is stealing until proven otherwise. Some people are stealing, but most are probably innocent of doing anything more than running afoul of some technical glitch that ate their code or caused their computer to appear to now have a different identity. Martin Dane Trethowan writes: > I did some simple calculations and - unless I'm doing something radically > wrong - then it seems to me that a company called GW Micro would have to > sell a high volume of product or sell at a fairly high price in order to > pay their staff and I think the figures speak for themselves. From lynne at mac-access.net Fri Dec 30 19:24:23 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2011 19:24:23 +0000 Subject: JFW In-Reply-To: <369902AEDDDB4AE5A6200F8485B11521@acer4d025c48b8> References: <87E8D8A9-7674-43A8-A1D2-DB7BB2398488@mac-access.net> <369902AEDDDB4AE5A6200F8485B11521@acer4d025c48b8> Message-ID: <03959254-30E9-49B5-B9B9-59BC42681841@mac-access.net> Hello David This is very reassuring; thank you. I guess we'll have to look and see if we can get funds for Gordon. Lynne On 30 Dec 2011, at 17:25, David Griffith wrote: I am sure that if you have been comfortable using NVDA JFW will feel comfortable as far as I can see the keys are about 95% identical. Like NVDA insert or if you are laptop layout caps lock plus 1 will toggle keyboard help on and off. The main difference is in screen review. Jaws uses something called the Jaws cursor which is the equivalent I think of what is described as the Mouse cursor in Windows Eyes. Below is a short summary of the Jaws cursor from memory. To turn Jaws Cursor on press num pad minus or caps lock plus P in laptop layout. To turn normal PC cursor back on press num pad plus or caps lock plus semi colon in ;laptop layout. You can restrict the Jaws cursor to various window settings such as focus window current window real window or unrestricted. I normally maximize windows and use unrestricted if I am using the Jaws cursor . You can toggle these restriction settings by pressing jaws key plus R to cycle through the available options. The other access feature of Jaws is the virtual window. This converts all the text on the screen into a virtual window. I believe this has been enhanced in Jaws 13. basically you press Jaws key plus alt plus W to create this virtual window. You can select and copy all the produced text onto the clipboard. This is useful if you want to get access to text which is not normally spellable or editable with Jaws. You can also use it on a directory to get all the available filenames for example. Voiceover actually does a much better job of this kind of thing actually but I find this jaws feature useful in Windows . David Griffith -----Original Message----- From: techno-chat-bounces at techno-chat.net [mailto:techno-chat-bounces at techno-chat.net] On Behalf Of Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith Sent: 30 December 2011 13:13 To: Techno-Chat ... Technology Enthusiasm! Subject: JFW Hello everybody OK, Gordon and I, not just myself, are about to try JFW. Given that we're totally new to the product, is there anything specific we should know? How, for instance, do we browse the screen? What about Gordon's Blue Tooth Humanware Brailliant 40 Braille display; will it work? Lynne ======================================= The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html Or: you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: --------------------------------------- ======================================= The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html Or: you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: --------------------------------------- From lynne at mac-access.net Fri Dec 30 19:26:41 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2011 19:26:41 +0000 Subject: JFW In-Reply-To: <19CF0077-DC96-43D8-BCC2-BE7BCDB901AF@internode.on.net> References: <87E8D8A9-7674-43A8-A1D2-DB7BB2398488@mac-access.net> <369902AEDDDB4AE5A6200F8485B11521@acer4d025c48b8> <19CF0077-DC96-43D8-BCC2-BE7BCDB901AF@internode.on.net> Message-ID: I've noticed actually that WE now usually just says "Edit" when you're on a web form with edit boxes. This is dreadful I reckon and had I not had sight it ould have taken a lot longer, Lynne On 30 Dec 2011, at 17:33, Dane Trethowan wrote: I'm far from an experienced JFW user but the thing which really impressed me when I used it was how seamlessly Internet Explorer ran. For example there was nont much of the "loading page" stuff you got with WE and pages were displayed fairly quickly. Then when it came to form filling JFW would allow one to fill in the edit boxes when one came to them without having to issue any extra commands, this is what users want surely! being able to browse a page and fill in forms where appropriate with a minimum of fuss and certainly JFW gave me that. I'm told that - when using Thunderbird with JFW - some customisation of the email client is recommended to use JFW at its optimum with the software? Well I'm not sure what those customisations are and I'll attempt to find out but everything seemed to work here right out of the box without any hitches which is more than I can say for WE at the present. Sent from my iPad On 31/12/2011, at 4:25 AM, "David Griffith" wrote: > I am sure that if you have been comfortable using NVDA JFW will feel > comfortable as far as I can see the keys are about 95% identical. > Like NVDA insert or if you are laptop layout caps lock plus 1 will toggle > keyboard help on and off. > The main difference is in screen review. Jaws uses something called the Jaws > cursor which is the equivalent I think of what is described as the Mouse > cursor in Windows Eyes. > > Below is a short summary of the Jaws cursor from memory. > > To turn Jaws Cursor on press num pad minus or caps lock plus P in laptop > layout. > To turn normal PC cursor back on press num pad plus or caps lock plus semi > colon in ;laptop layout. > > You can restrict the Jaws cursor to various window settings such as focus > window current window real window or unrestricted. I normally maximize > windows and use unrestricted if I am using the Jaws cursor . You can toggle > these restriction settings by pressing jaws key plus R to cycle through the > available options. > The other access feature of Jaws is the virtual window. This converts all > the text on the screen into a virtual window. I believe this has been > enhanced in Jaws 13. basically you press Jaws key plus alt plus W to create > this virtual window. You can select and copy all the produced text onto the > clipboard. This is useful if you want to get access to text which is not > normally spellable or editable with Jaws. You can also use it on a directory > to get all the available filenames for example. Voiceover actually does a > much better job of this kind of thing actually but I find this jaws feature > useful in Windows . > > David Griffith > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: techno-chat-bounces at techno-chat.net > [mailto:techno-chat-bounces at techno-chat.net] On Behalf Of Mrs. Lynnette > Annabel Smith > Sent: 30 December 2011 13:13 > To: Techno-Chat ... Technology Enthusiasm! > Subject: JFW > > Hello everybody > > OK, Gordon and I, not just myself, are about to try JFW. Given that we're > totally new to the product, is there anything specific we should know? How, > for instance, do we browse the screen? What about Gordon's Blue Tooth > Humanware Brailliant 40 Braille display; will it work? > > Lynne > > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus > and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web > pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at > either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- ======================================= The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html Or: you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: --------------------------------------- From lynne at mac-access.net Fri Dec 30 19:28:10 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2011 19:28:10 +0000 Subject: Blogging In-Reply-To: <9FC3BD4F-1DC6-40A5-A6AD-CF136343E5C9@gmail.com> References: <9FC3BD4F-1DC6-40A5-A6AD-CF136343E5C9@gmail.com> Message-ID: <640AEDAB-FF9F-4F3C-BE61-7599BC2A7328@mac-access.net> Sarah How do you change the themes? Lynne On 30 Dec 2011, at 17:44, Sarah Alawami wrote: I use the twenty10 wordpress theme. It's accessible and if you turn off java script you can move the menues around so that they are the way you want them. I have managed to do this on my music page that I"m currently working on and another project I'm working on as well. If you know php you can edit the theme to your liking and make a child theme. See the word press code page for doing that. It's not the theme that needs work it's the 303 update that needs a lot of work actually. I've in discussion with them now regarding this and so are several blind and vi people as well. but all in all it's a great great platform both for blogs and CMS and the best thing it's plugin driven. I have a myriad of pluggins and am about to when I actually wake up put a review of one of them on youtube. You can customize your theme's color through the style.css file or again do it via the child theme like I did so when you update your theme you won't loose changes. I know this did not answer your question and I"m still learning wp but I am loving every minute of it and I did not think I'd love every minute of coding. Oh btw go to profile after you log in to your panel and change the thing to classic editor. You will notice a change there. I did several youtube presentations on wordpress but watch the first one found at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90MVig5PiDE I try my best to be clear and I use fantastico to set up the mysql crap. lol! I don't go over that as it's straight forward. Take care all. Sarah Alawami If you need an edit done on a small project go to http://music.marrie.org/master for more info. If you need to contact me my info is below. MSN and AIM: marrie12 at gmail.com website: http://music.marrie.org Podcast: http://tffp.marrie.org/podcast youtube: http://youtube.com/marrie125 On Dec 28, 2011, at 6:32 PM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: > Hello everybody > > Gordon and I are having another horrible night; so instead of watching him try in vain to settle, we've both come downstairs to do bits of work on respective projects. > > However, one project in which we both have an interest is our blogs. I'm interested to know, if anybody can tell me, how other vision impaired people handle themes for their blogs. WordPress doesn't seem to be particularly conducive towards accessibility in its themes so I just wondered what others changed to makes their blogs more accessible. > > Any info greatly appreciated. > > Lynne > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- ======================================= The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html Or: you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: --------------------------------------- From billd at insightbb.com Fri Dec 30 23:30:08 2011 From: billd at insightbb.com (Bill Deatherage) Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2011 18:30:08 -0500 Subject: Apple Versus Microsoft; [Screen-Readers] References: ac-access.net><561D8422-180F-4C47-8067-E0F5082BAADF@mac-access.net><4EFB713C.608@internode.on.net> <20111228161044.3yhn7se12coow400@webmail.iu.edu><4EFBF33A.50 40700@yahoo.com><4D571FA9-9A6B-4072-83A2-4AE026B40AB7@mac-access.net><4EFC5F30.7050000@ techno-chat.net> Message-ID: <0C9BF03EC30A4AEBB4C87B22CACF636E@billgekskmb2yp> Hello, I am using both the mac and the windows computer. My Mac is still running snow leperd. there things I like about both systems. also, I would like the e-mail address to send a message to the list. I must have deleted the message with that information. thank you for your help in advance. Bill Deatherage From marrie12 at gmail.com Fri Dec 30 23:45:57 2011 From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah Alawami) Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2011 15:45:57 -0800 Subject: Blogging In-Reply-To: <640AEDAB-FF9F-4F3C-BE61-7599BC2A7328@mac-access.net> References: <9FC3BD4F-1DC6-40A5-A6AD-CF136343E5C9@gmail.com> <640AEDAB-FF9F-4F3C-BE61-7599BC2A7328@mac-access.net> Message-ID: do you want to make a child theme of the one you are using? Or do you wanta new theme. I can point you to links for both places some time this evening my time lol! but if uyou want to change the theme go to apparence and then to add new and look for the one you want, or just google for it and install it manually. and theb make a child theme so you can not reck the original should something go wrong The reasin I use the twentyten theme is I'm used to the php code in it lol! Take care. On Dec 30, 2011, at 11:28 AM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: > Sarah > > How do you change the themes? > > Lynne > > On 30 Dec 2011, at 17:44, Sarah Alawami wrote: > > I use the twenty10 wordpress theme. It's accessible and if you turn off java script you can move the menues around so that they are the way you want them. I have managed to do this on my music page that I"m currently working on and another project I'm working on as well. If you know php you can edit the theme to your liking and make a child theme. See the word press code page for doing that. > > It's not the theme that needs work it's the 303 update that needs a lot of work actually. I've in discussion with them now regarding this and so are several blind and vi people as well. but all in all it's a great great platform both for blogs and CMS and the best thing it's plugin driven. I have a myriad of pluggins and am about to when I actually wake up put a review of one of them on youtube. You can customize your theme's color through the style.css file or again do it via the child theme like I did so when you update your theme you won't loose changes. I know this did not answer your question and I"m still learning wp but I am loving every minute of it and I did not think I'd love every minute of coding. > > Oh btw go to profile after you log in to your panel and change the thing to classic editor. You will notice a change there. I did several youtube presentations on wordpress but watch the first one found at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90MVig5PiDE > > I try my best to be clear and I use fantastico to set up the mysql crap. lol! I don't go over that as it's straight forward. > > Take care all. > > > Sarah Alawami > > If you need an edit done on a small project go to http://music.marrie.org/master for more info. > If you need to contact me my info is below. > MSN and AIM: marrie12 at gmail.com > website: http://music.marrie.org > Podcast: http://tffp.marrie.org/podcast > youtube: http://youtube.com/marrie125 > > > On Dec 28, 2011, at 6:32 PM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: > >> Hello everybody >> >> Gordon and I are having another horrible night; so instead of watching him try in vain to settle, we've both come downstairs to do bits of work on respective projects. >> >> However, one project in which we both have an interest is our blogs. I'm interested to know, if anybody can tell me, how other vision impaired people handle themes for their blogs. WordPress doesn't seem to be particularly conducive towards accessibility in its themes so I just wondered what others changed to makes their blogs more accessible. >> >> Any info greatly appreciated. >> >> Lynne >> >> >> ======================================= >> >> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free >> >> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat >> >> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: >> >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html >> >> Or: >> >> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: >> >> >> --------------------------------------- > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- From allynstansfield at yahoo.co.uk Sat Dec 31 00:03:51 2011 From: allynstansfield at yahoo.co.uk (Allyn Stansfield) Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2011 00:03:51 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Blogging In-Reply-To: <6674346A-2451-455A-841C-02E37F7576F7@mac-access.net> References: <1325210591.87567.YahooMailNeo@web24702.mail.ird.yahoo.com> <6674346A-2451-455A-841C-02E37F7576F7@mac-access.net> Message-ID: <1325289831.20548.YahooMailNeo@web24706.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Hi Lynne, ? Thank you for the offer of Hosting, but I have a Business Account with HostGator and I also have a reseller with NamezCheap.com?which is my own website. It offer's offers domain names, hosting, ssl certs, marketing tools, design services, etc. I don't mind disclosing to you that it's a GoDaddy resller website, but I charge the minimum possible prices in the entire industry, guaranteed, feel free to compare with eNom, NameCheap, Reg-123 and even GoDaddy themselves. ? I'm not trying to advertise myself, but if I can save people money, then it's win win and I'm planning on adding a back-end to this website with a lot of free resources soon too. The reason I've mentioned it is because I appreciate your kind offer of the hosting, and I would actually like to know more about your offer of an email group and in return I would be more than pleased to offer you Wholesale price account, for any future domain names, etc, you were intending to purchase, or renew, although, for renewals, you would have to transfer the domains first and for first time purchases I can't decrease the pricing any further than stated on the website. ? As I say, I really appreciate your offer and I would like to know more about the email group offer. I'm wondering whether you mean a AutoResponder or whether you mean an email group like the Techno Chat list? ? Thanks. ? Regards. ? Allyn Stansfield. From: Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith To: Techno-Chat ... Technology Enthusiasm! Sent: Friday, 30 December 2011, 12:37 Subject: Re: Blogging Hello Allyn I just wanted to say that if we can help with website hosting, we offer that to the visually impaired free of charge. We could also provide you with an email group should you wish it. You'd have full control over the group with as little or much help from us in the configuration of the list as you dictate. Please let us know off list if you're interested at all. Lynne On 30 Dec 2011, at 02:03, Allyn Stansfield wrote: Hey guys, It's quite ironic that this topic should come up, as this is something in which I have been meaning to ask on here for a few days, but thought I would leave it until after the holidays. I'm really interested in Web Development, I know a lot of html and I know basic css and php, but not enough to build a site from scratch, unless it's just html or using a CMS. I don't really know anything about Accessible Web Development, despite being registered blind myself. However, I would like to know a few things, firstly has anybody got any advice or good resources about Web Accessibility and not just for the Visually Impaired, but for everybody? I have a project in mind which I think would be a brilliant idea, but it's vital that I have a fully accessible website, preferably WordPress, that is easy to edit, blog, have a back end forum and other communication facilities, including a private message facility, that are all fully accessible. This as you can imagine is a seriously hard task to meet, especially on a low budget. I have been offered the opportunity to purchase the theme of lflegal.com for $400 which is WACG 2.0 AAA compliant. However, it's the old style theme so it wouldn't work with Wordpress 3.x as the modifications would no longer work. I have also found a fairly accessible punBB forum for the back end, but it's not perfect. I really want a fully accessible, up-to-date, easy to edit, search engine friendly website. If you have any advice it would be much appreciated. Secondly, can any of you give any good advice or resources for undertaking Freelancing Projects? I don't want to know about eLance, Guru, Getafreelancer, Rentacoder, etc. I've already undertaken several projects in the past, I'm refering more to advice and resources about how to get more clients and win more projects, etc. Also, bare in mind that my previous experiences were when my vision was significantly better than it is now. Finally, I don't really find things like Dreamweaver that accessible when using High Contrast desktop themes, so any advice about this sort of thing would be much appreciated too. As I've said, I'm not new to this sort of thing at all, but I only have an overview of things, I'm not an exper and I'm not a programming genius. I have an AS Level in ICT, which was accomplished mainly by using the full range of programs that are included within the Microsoft Office Suite and researching, using the Internet. In addition to this, I am currently studying a Business and Law BA (Hons) degree, via distance learning, at the Open University, which is primarily done online. I have also undertaken frequent freelance Web Development projects, such as website, blog, forum, article, content and press release creation and submission, web hosting, email and webmail setup, search engine optimization and submission, directory submission, RSS feed submission and social media marketing services. In addition to this, I have an extensive knowledge of HTML and computer-based Content Management Systems and Blogging Platforms. I also have a basic knowledge of CSS, PHP and JavaScript. Furthermore, I am very experienced in system and server maintenance, repair and restorations, and I am also an extremely efficient and self-taught touch-typist. Seasons Greetings to you all. Thanks. Allyn Stansfield. From: Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith To: Techno-Chat ... Technology Enthusiasm! Sent: Thursday, 29 December 2011, 2:32 Subject: Blogging Hello everybody Gordon and I are having another horrible night; so instead of watching him try in vain to settle, we've both come downstairs to do bits of work on respective projects. However, one project in which we both have an interest is our blogs. I'm interested to know, if anybody can tell me, how other vision impaired people handle themes for their blogs. WordPress doesn't seem to be particularly conducive towards accessibility in its themes so I just wondered what others changed to makes their blogs more accessible. Any info greatly appreciated. Lynne ======================================= The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html Or: you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.? The feed is at: --------------------------------------- ======================================= The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html Or: you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.? The feed is at: --------------------------------------- ======================================= The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html Or: you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.? The feed is at: --------------------------------------- From marrie12 at gmail.com Sat Dec 31 01:57:04 2011 From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah Alawami) Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2011 17:57:04 -0800 Subject: Blogging In-Reply-To: <640AEDAB-FF9F-4F3C-BE61-7599BC2A7328@mac-access.net> References: <9FC3BD4F-1DC6-40A5-A6AD-CF136343E5C9@gmail.com> <640AEDAB-FF9F-4F3C-BE61-7599BC2A7328@mac-access.net> Message-ID: What i'm about to post might be clear as mud as we say here in the states. I'm no css guroo but this will work. Good luck. Ok. to change the theme 1. go to appearance and then go to the theme you installed or uploaded to wp-content/themes the folder must not be a sub folder when you decompress it. So it must have under the folder the stuff for the theme and not a subfolder 2. activate said theme and 3. edit header.php and footer.php to suit your needs. If you want to make a child theme 1. duplicate that theme and call the folder what ever you want. 2. edit style.css and include below the star symbol at the very bottom template: twentyten or what ever your parent theme is called Here is an example of the child theme I edited for the twentyten theme /* Theme Name: Twenty Ten child theme Theme URI: http://wordpress.org/ Description: This is a child theme so I don't have to make any modifications every time I have a theme update. Template: twentyten License: GNU General Public License License URI: license.txt Tags: black, blue, white, two-columns, fixed-width, custom-header, custom-background, threaded-comments, sticky-post, translation-ready, microformats, rtl-language-support, editor-style, custom-menu */ */ @import url("../twentyten/style.css");