From grtdane at internode.on.net Tue Mar 1 02:14:57 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2011 13:14:57 +1100 Subject: Gigaset Cordless Phones Message-ID: <10251E73-CE78-4792-B312-D4D03B016CD8@internode.on.net> Hi! If I remember someone on list was using one of these things, how did you find it? According to the hearing professionals I see with regard to my hearing instruments, the Gigaset cordless phones are supposed to have the best audio quality of any cordless phone on the market right now? If this is indeed the case then I'd be tempted to buy one and be rid of my Uniden which my hearing professionals also recommended but that was quite some time ago. From moore.c at blueyonder.co.uk Tue Mar 1 13:00:16 2011 From: moore.c at blueyonder.co.uk (Chris Moore) Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2011 13:00:16 +0000 Subject: Gigaset Cordless Phones In-Reply-To: <10251E73-CE78-4792-B312-D4D03B016CD8@internode.on.net> References: <10251E73-CE78-4792-B312-D4D03B016CD8@internode.on.net> Message-ID: <0BFAAE41-51EE-44FC-A04E-1887FC41A9ED@blueyonder.co.uk> Dane, Both Gordon and myself use them, mainly because you can also bluetooth them to your hearing aid via a streamer such as the iCom. Sadly they are not very blind friendly as they are menu driven, but if you learn the key presses then you will be ok. Sound quality and volume is very good though and the ringer is nice and loud too. They also vibrate and have good battery life. On 1 Mar 2011, at 02:14, Dane Trethowan wrote: > Hi! > > If I remember someone on list was using one of these things, how did you find it? > > According to the hearing professionals I see with regard to my hearing instruments, the Gigaset cordless phones are supposed to have the best audio quality of any cordless phone on the market right now? If this is indeed the case then I'd be tempted to buy one and be rid of my Uniden which my hearing professionals also recommended but that was quite some time ago. > > > _______________________________________________ > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group since the 12th of April 2010, at: > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > From martin at x.it.okstate.edu Tue Mar 1 16:49:05 2011 From: martin at x.it.okstate.edu (Martin McCormick) Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2011 10:49:05 -0600 Subject: Outlook & Windows Mail, looks like some things never change! Message-ID: <201103011649.p21Gn5CC064131@x.it.okstate.edu> I am kind of surprised but not that much. This is what you get when you have the sort of interdependent resources we are talking about on a platform such as this. Someone hits a web site that is innocently run by, say, a convent for example. They don't know it but the CDROM they installed software from was corrupted by a worm that the duplicating company that produced the CD accidentally put on it along with the legitimate software. Nobody knows anything is wrong yet but the worm launched and has found executable code on the web server that it can attach itself to so the next unsuspecting Internet Explorer user gets contaminated along with what appears to be a normal web experience. The worm, crafted for Windows, knows where the address book is and probably lots of other stuff you don't want anybody else to have access to and your goose is roasting in the oven. If it is written a certain way, it can hijack your computer to generate spam which opens up yet another way to spread. Your friends trust you so they open mail from you and their mail reader uses the same javascript engine or some other execution engine built in to the platform and now your friend is scratching his or her head about the odd message, not knowing that there troubles are just beginning. I got in to networking 21 years ago and we used to discuss what a nightmare it would be if people could remotely execute code via Email. The commercial folks tell you that we've got you covered. The hackers who run the ultimate open-source project hammer away until they break the door down and the hits just keep on coming. I am not passing myself off as any kind of IT security expert, but this has been going on for 15 or 20 years. One would think that certain entities in the IT world would start to wonder if maybe it isn't time to rethink the value of certain designs which seem to blow up the same way every time. Just to be clear, hacking has been going on as long as there have been computers and attempts at access control. I am specifically talking about Email and web access in which the server invokes client-side executable code which it may well have placed there, itself. There will always be a buffer overflow that hasn't been discovered yet or a time race condition to be exploited. To think nobody will discover this and use it maliciously is the hight of arrogance. Gordon Smith writes: > Hi > > A friend of ours has been doing some testing over at Teesside university > over the last few weeks to see if the so-called "Transmission leaks" in > Microsoft Windows platforms have been addressed in Windows 7. > > Sadly, according to Neil and his team, the results show a remarkable > swing to the contrary. Windows 7, once you install the optional Windows > Live Mail, is even worse than Outlook Express, if you can imagine that, > for transmitting address books full of phone numbers, E-Mail addresses > and often more. > > I haven't seen this behaviour myself because we don't use the platform > all that much now. But I'm shocked and genuinely horrified at just how > quickly our own test E-Maill addresses have reached the "spam-guys" And > the only way it could have happened is via re-transmission. The > addresses don't appear on any websites, don't appear in any ads or > anything else. > > One isn't even safe in a Mac discussion list, because people will insist > on using Windows there as well. :) > > Gordon > > _______________________________________________ > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, > virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated > web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group > since the 12th of April 2010, at: > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > From martin at x.it.okstate.edu Tue Mar 1 17:19:58 2011 From: martin at x.it.okstate.edu (Martin McCormick) Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2011 11:19:58 -0600 Subject: More about the H1 Message-ID: <201103011719.p21HJw2U064301@x.it.okstate.edu> or just be very careful if it would mean the difference between no recording at all or one at the wrong rate. Sox, for example, can convert many sample rates to 44.1. Sometimes the result is perfect and other times it is rubbish. It depends on how much math it has to do to effect the conversion. Gordon Smith writes: > Hello Martin > > Must remember to take an AM radio or an induction amp everywhere I go. :) From lynne at mac-access.net Tue Mar 1 20:13:16 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2011 20:13:16 +0000 Subject: MP3's In-Reply-To: References: <201102281451.p1SEpdHx055815@x.it.okstate.edu> Message-ID: <4B02AD46-59FE-4CDF-A4AB-32297921B08F@mac-access.net> Hello Sarah On 28 Feb 2011, at 21:25, Sarah Alawami wrote: You could also use flac to store files you will edit later. I do this all the time, or try to anyway. They are about half the size of wav files. Give them a listen and good luck. We've been using FLaC with cue sheets for not far off 6 years now. BNo, it's probably more than that. Although I wasn't on the scene when Gordon started using them. Lynne From lynne at mac-access.net Tue Mar 1 20:20:08 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2011 20:20:08 +0000 Subject: Gigaset Cordless Phones In-Reply-To: <10251E73-CE78-4792-B312-D4D03B016CD8@internode.on.net> References: <10251E73-CE78-4792-B312-D4D03B016CD8@internode.on.net> Message-ID: <79522B5D-2182-46EA-A9F5-5EB3422C536C@mac-access.net> Hello Dane Tyes, Gordon and I use them. They are *** EXCELLENT ***. The audio quality and connectivity is excellent. If you want to know more mail me off list. Lynne On 1 Mar 2011, at 02:14, Dane Trethowan wrote: Hi! If I remember someone on list was using one of these things, how did you find it? According to the hearing professionals I see with regard to my hearing instruments, the Gigaset cordless phones are supposed to have the best audio quality of any cordless phone on the market right now? If this is indeed the case then I'd be tempted to buy one and be rid of my Uniden which my hearing professionals also recommended but that was quite some time ago. _______________________________________________ The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group since the 12th of April 2010, at: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html From martin at x.it.okstate.edu Wed Mar 2 14:02:31 2011 From: martin at x.it.okstate.edu (Martin McCormick) Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2011 08:02:31 -0600 Subject: A Real World Test for the H1 Message-ID: <201103021402.p22E2Vsm070282@x.it.okstate.edu> Yesterday, I wanted to record our monthly tornado siren test as it is an interesting sound scape. Our town tests the storm sirens on the first Tuesday of every month unless the weather is actually bad and it might confuse people in to thinking something was about to happen. I brought the Zoom H1 to work and took most of my break at 11:30 with the test is scheduled. The Zoom recorded me walking outside the building and then things went very wrong. We had a good 20-mile-per-hour wind right out of the South which is typical for March and April. I had the foam wind screen over the microphones, but even that was not sufficient to keep the wind out. It caused the automatic volume control to adjust way down which is okay because if I had left it off, the rumble would have just driven the audio circuits in to clipping. I probably should have had the low-cut filter on and it might have worked out better. What you hear is mostly wind without letup plus a faint hint of the sirens in the background. It occurred to me that where I was standing, the wind is a significant source of noise in one's own ears. The only way one could solve that problem would be to have held up some sort of shield between the wind and the recorder but even then, it swirls around so there would still be some. Well, maybe it won't be quite as windy on the first Tuesday in April. The sirens are now all electronic rather than the old-fashioned compressed air types but each one is a slightly different sound frequency so it is an unearthly sound. When they finish blowing, they all drop in pitch like a traditional siren but each one is dropping at a slightly different rate so it really sounds neat. Let's hope they don't need to blow them very many times for real this Spring. From gordon at mac-access.net Wed Mar 2 18:01:01 2011 From: gordon at mac-access.net (Gordon Smith) Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 18:01:01 +0000 Subject: Outlook & Windows Mail, looks like some things never change! In-Reply-To: <31BAA835-CB2D-48B5-AC28-9E63EF0B959E@gmail.com> References: <4D6C04F4.5020403@internode.on.net> <31BAA835-CB2D-48B5-AC28-9E63EF0B959E@gmail.com> Message-ID: <412483E8-2E97-4304-B599-1BD9BA93B0AD@mac-access.net> Hello Sarah Transmission leaks in this context are data which is covertly transmitted from one IP system to another without the user's knowledge or consent. Actually, although they denied it for years and, I gather, still deny it, Microsoft have been proven to collect some or maybe all of this illicit data. Some versions of Office, for instance, apparently hide the serial number of the producing software, plus the owner info and location. I gather that this was brushed off by Microsoft some time ago as an "oversight" in their coding. But there were others to subscribe to an alternative and, perhaps, more accurate theory that Microsoft deliberately uses these techniques to gather and accumulate data. I am one who does not for an instant believe Microsoft's claims of innocence. I subscribe to the more fishy theory and I honestly believe that Microsoft knows full well what is happening. Windows Mail and, as many of us know, Outlook are the biggest individual contributors to the illicit transmission of email and contact data on the planet. The inter-dependent resources of Windows make it an ideal operating system for such techniques. There was another question in another message about Thunderbird. Well, all I can say is that Thunderbird is quite possibly a victim of the same problem, since it too relies heavily on low level Microsoft resources in order to, for instance, tap into the IP stack which is necessary for any Windows application to communicate with the outside world. Thus, it wouldn't be too difficult for somebody to write a script to gather the same information from an application such as Thunderbird, so I certainly wouldn't rule it out. I have no evidence that this has actually happened yet. However, I have no evidence to the contrary either. Thunderbird now includes some of the old Eudora code I believe. Eudora was never the most secure environment in itself. Most of its data was stored in simple to read, "in-the-clear" text. So I personally wouldn't feel too smug and secure if I were a Thunderbird user. This isn't Windows bashing, just in case there are still some of those immature people here on list who insist on twisting everything into a "my toy's better than your toy ... nair nair ne nair nair!". I'm simply basing my comments on experience and on what I've read. It may be that Thunderbird or whatever else you fancy using isn't yet affected by these problems. All I'm saying is don't presume safety just because you happen to use something like Eset Smart Security or whatever. It's true that I am quite brassed off with Microsoft at the moment. But that's a totally different issue. We're talking here about the big wide world, not about Gordon and Lynne Smith. Gordon On 28 Feb 2011, at 21:23, Sarah Alawami wrote: and I have a simpler question. what are transmission leaks? Sorry I'm not that up to date on this stuff and I reasontly left windows secrets news letter as well. From marrie12 at gmail.com Wed Mar 2 20:34:42 2011 From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah Alawami) Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 12:34:42 -0800 Subject: Outlook & Windows Mail, looks like some things never change! In-Reply-To: <412483E8-2E97-4304-B599-1BD9BA93B0AD@mac-access.net> References: <4D6C04F4.5020403@internode.on.net> <31BAA835-CB2D-48B5-AC28-9E63EF0B959E@gmail.com> <412483E8-2E97-4304-B599-1BD9BA93B0AD@mac-access.net> Message-ID: Ah I just use the web for email on windows as I don't use it that much lol! thanks for the explanation. On Mar 2, 2011, at 10:01 AM, Gordon Smith wrote: > Hello Sarah > > Transmission leaks in this context are data which is covertly transmitted from one IP system to another without the user's knowledge or consent. > > Actually, although they denied it for years and, I gather, still deny it, Microsoft have been proven to collect some or maybe all of this illicit data. Some versions of Office, for instance, apparently hide the serial number of the producing software, plus the owner info and location. I gather that this was brushed off by Microsoft some time ago as an "oversight" in their coding. But there were others to subscribe to an alternative and, perhaps, more accurate theory that Microsoft deliberately uses these techniques to gather and accumulate data. > > I am one who does not for an instant believe Microsoft's claims of innocence. I subscribe to the more fishy theory and I honestly believe that Microsoft knows full well what is happening. > > Windows Mail and, as many of us know, Outlook are the biggest individual contributors to the illicit transmission of email and contact data on the planet. > > The inter-dependent resources of Windows make it an ideal operating system for such techniques. There was another question in another message about Thunderbird. Well, all I can say is that Thunderbird is quite possibly a victim of the same problem, since it too relies heavily on low level Microsoft resources in order to, for instance, tap into the IP stack which is necessary for any Windows application to communicate with the outside world. Thus, it wouldn't be too difficult for somebody to write a script to gather the same information from an application such as Thunderbird, so I certainly wouldn't rule it out. > > I have no evidence that this has actually happened yet. However, I have no evidence to the contrary either. Thunderbird now includes some of the old Eudora code I believe. Eudora was never the most secure environment in itself. Most of its data was stored in simple to read, "in-the-clear" text. So I personally wouldn't feel too smug and secure if I were a Thunderbird user. > > This isn't Windows bashing, just in case there are still some of those immature people here on list who insist on twisting everything into a "my toy's better than your toy ... nair nair ne nair nair!". I'm simply basing my comments on experience and on what I've read. It may be that Thunderbird or whatever else you fancy using isn't yet affected by these problems. All I'm saying is don't presume safety just because you happen to use something like Eset Smart Security or whatever. > > It's true that I am quite brassed off with Microsoft at the moment. But that's a totally different issue. We're talking here about the big wide world, not about Gordon and Lynne Smith. > > Gordon > > On 28 Feb 2011, at 21:23, Sarah Alawami wrote: > > and I have a simpler question. what are transmission leaks? Sorry I'm not that up to date on this stuff and I reasontly left windows secrets news letter as well. > > > _______________________________________________ > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group since the 12th of April 2010, at: > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > From martin at x.it.okstate.edu Thu Mar 3 16:58:23 2011 From: martin at x.it.okstate.edu (Martin McCormick) Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2011 10:58:23 -0600 Subject: Extra Cost Addons Versus Built right in Message-ID: <201103031658.p23GwNqO078390@x.it.okstate.edu> I see where a company is now selling a screen reader for the Android phones. It may be excellent for all I know, but haven't we seen this movie before? From lynne at mac-access.net Thu Mar 3 17:34:07 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2011 17:34:07 +0000 Subject: Extra Cost Addons Versus Built right in In-Reply-To: <201103031658.p23GwNqO078390@x.it.okstate.edu> References: <201103031658.p23GwNqO078390@x.it.okstate.edu> Message-ID: <349374D7-DD65-41D9-AA6E-5E37488F2607@mac-access.net> Hello Martin On 3 Mar 2011, at 16:58, Martin McCormick wrote: I see where a company is now selling a screen reader for the Android phones. It may be excellent for all I know, but haven't we seen this movie before? yes, we've been down that rocky road before. Talks, MibileSpeak and I think there are more. Lynne From grtdane at internode.on.net Thu Mar 3 17:51:53 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2011 04:51:53 +1100 Subject: Extra Cost Addons Versus Built right in In-Reply-To: <349374D7-DD65-41D9-AA6E-5E37488F2607@mac-access.net> References: <201103031658.p23GwNqO078390@x.it.okstate.edu> <349374D7-DD65-41D9-AA6E-5E37488F2607@mac-access.net> Message-ID: <4D6FD539.5020404@internode.on.net> I'm glad that people have a choice regarding mobile phones that talk, the Iphone is not everything and perfect to all people but the problem is going to be as far as I know with the Android phone that of change, the OS changes frequently so the developers of the speech software are in theory never going to be on top of any new features that come out for Android. The second problem is going to be that different manufacturers of Android devices use different versions of the Android operating system I'm lead to believe but if one can get their head around all that? Well I've no reason to doubt that the Android operating system would be an excellent choice for some people as its far more flexible than Apple and its IOS in many ways. Rocky road? Well I don't know, if the market is anything to go by then no certainly not as Android phones now are out selling Iphone by 2 to 1 though this can change of course. I'm in no doubt that a significant proportion of blind people will by Android phones if the software to allow them to speak is good enough and cheap enough. On 4/03/2011 4:34 AM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: > Hello Martin > On 3 Mar 2011, at 16:58, Martin McCormick wrote: > > I see where a company is now selling a screen reader for > the Android phones. It may be excellent for all I know, but > haven't we seen this movie before? > > > yes, we've been down that rocky road before. Talks, MibileSpeak and I think there are more. > > Lynne > > > _______________________________________________ > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group since the 12th of April 2010, at: > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > From martin at x.it.okstate.edu Thu Mar 3 18:06:48 2011 From: martin at x.it.okstate.edu (Martin McCormick) Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2011 12:06:48 -0600 Subject: Extra Cost Addons Versus Built right in Message-ID: <201103031806.p23I6m8G079068@x.it.okstate.edu> The Android phone uses an open-source architecture which is a good thing. Someone in the development community came out with a speech interface that had some promise of being useful but wasn't there yet. It was free and, being open source, may either one day turn in to something great or may just die on the vine. Having observed how the world works regarding the other huge operating system in which access is bolted on later at much extra cost rather than built in so that it grows with the OS, I am glad there is a choice, also, and I choose not to buy. I think bolted on at extra cost often means that it won't be where you need it, when you need it. I am not disagreeing with anybody here, but I do disagree with the idea of extra cost after-market software for access because of the very issues you mention. Dane Trethowan writes: > I'm glad that people have a choice regarding mobile phones that talk, the > Iphone is not everything and perfect to all people but the problem is > going > to be as far as I know with the Android phone that of change, the OS > changes frequently so the developers of the speech software are in theory > never going to be on top of any new features that come out for Android. > > > > The second problem is going to be that different manufacturers of Android > devices use different versions of the Android operating system I'm lead to > believe but if one can get their head around all that? Well I've no reason > to doubt that the Android operating system would be an excellent choice > for > some people as its far more flexible than Apple and its IOS in many ways. > > > > Rocky road? Well I don't know, if the market is anything to go by then no > certainly not as Android phones now are out selling Iphone by 2 to 1 > though > this can change of course. I'm in no doubt that a significant proportion > of > blind people will by Android phones if the software to allow them to speak > is good enough and cheap enough. > > > > > On 4/03/2011 4:34 AM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: > > Hello Martin > On 3 Mar 2011, at 16:58, Martin McCormick wrote: > > I see where a company is now selling a screen reader for > the Android phones. It may be excellent for all I know, but > haven't we seen this movie before? > > > yes, we've been down that rocky road before. Talks, MibileSpeak and I > think there are more. > > Lynne > > > _______________________________________________ > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, > virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's > dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat > group since the 12th of April 2010, at: > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > > _______________________________________________ > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, > virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated > web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group > since the 12th of April 2010, at: > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > From grtdane at internode.on.net Thu Mar 3 18:20:42 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2011 05:20:42 +1100 Subject: Extra Cost Addons Versus Built right in In-Reply-To: <201103031806.p23I6m8G079068@x.it.okstate.edu> References: <201103031806.p23I6m8G079068@x.it.okstate.edu> Message-ID: <4D6FDBFA.3050700@internode.on.net> Yes points taken though some people view the extra accessibility costs as the sort of extra money you may pay for software plugins or upgrades, I find the whole idea that you have to pay extra to get a phone to function to be monsterous however that was the case and still is the case for some people so either you pay extra to possibly use equipment to allow you to do your job or you're unemployable and that unfortunately is the stark reality for some people. One thing I think the Apple Iphone in itself has going for it that no Android or Windows Mobile 7 device can match to this day, everything you want is in your hands. You'll notice that with all other phones you have a memory card slot, a USB socket and so it goes on? Nothing like this with your Iphone, memory is there, as much as you wanted when you purchased your phone, no worries about replacing a battery and so on, I think this appelas to consumers and is one of the reasons why Iphones are as popular as they are. On 4/03/2011 5:06 AM, Martin McCormick wrote: > The Android phone uses an open-source architecture which > is a good thing. Someone in the development community came out > with a speech interface that had some promise of being useful > but wasn't there yet. It was free and, being open source, may > either one day turn in to something great or may just die on the > vine. > > Having observed how the world works regarding the other > huge operating system in which access is bolted on later at much > extra cost rather than built in so that it grows with the OS, I > am glad there is a choice, also, and I choose not to buy. > > I think bolted on at extra cost often means that it > won't be where you need it, when you need it. > > I am not disagreeing with anybody here, but I do > disagree with the idea of extra cost after-market software for > access because of the very issues you mention. > Dane Trethowan writes: >> I'm glad that people have a choice regarding mobile phones that talk, the >> Iphone is not everything and perfect to all people but the problem is >> going >> to be as far as I know with the Android phone that of change, the OS >> changes frequently so the developers of the speech software are in theory >> never going to be on top of any new features that come out for Android. >> >> >> >> The second problem is going to be that different manufacturers of Android >> devices use different versions of the Android operating system I'm lead to >> believe but if one can get their head around all that? Well I've no reason >> to doubt that the Android operating system would be an excellent choice >> for >> some people as its far more flexible than Apple and its IOS in many ways. >> >> >> >> Rocky road? Well I don't know, if the market is anything to go by then no >> certainly not as Android phones now are out selling Iphone by 2 to 1 >> though >> this can change of course. I'm in no doubt that a significant proportion >> of >> blind people will by Android phones if the software to allow them to speak >> is good enough and cheap enough. >> >> >> >> >> On 4/03/2011 4:34 AM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: >> >> Hello Martin >> On 3 Mar 2011, at 16:58, Martin McCormick wrote: >> >> I see where a company is now selling a screen reader for >> the Android phones. It may be excellent for all I know, but >> haven't we seen this movie before? >> >> >> yes, we've been down that rocky road before. Talks, MibileSpeak and I >> think there are more. >> >> Lynne >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, >> virus and worm-free >> >> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's >> dedicated web pages located at >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat >> >> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat >> group since the 12th of April 2010, at: >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, >> virus and worm-free >> >> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated >> web pages located at >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat >> >> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group >> since the 12th of April 2010, at: >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html >> >> > _______________________________________________ > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group since the 12th of April 2010, at: > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > From marrie12 at gmail.com Thu Mar 3 21:22:47 2011 From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah Alawami) Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2011 13:22:47 -0800 Subject: Extra Cost Addons Versus Built right in In-Reply-To: <4D6FD539.5020404@internode.on.net> References: <201103031658.p23GwNqO078390@x.it.okstate.edu> <349374D7-DD65-41D9-AA6E-5E37488F2607@mac-access.net> <4D6FD539.5020404@internode.on.net> Message-ID: If google thought would do what apple did then yeah I would go for an android phone but not with a screen reader that sounds like flextalk. lol. hehahahahaha! I think I've been spoiled. On Mar 3, 2011, at 9:51 AM, Dane Trethowan wrote: > I'm glad that people have a choice regarding mobile phones that talk, the Iphone is not everything and perfect to all people but the problem is going to be as far as I know with the Android phone that of change, the OS changes frequently so the developers of the speech software are in theory never going to be on top of any new features that come out for Android. > > The second problem is going to be that different manufacturers of Android devices use different versions of the Android operating system I'm lead to believe but if one can get their head around all that? Well I've no reason to doubt that the Android operating system would be an excellent choice for some people as its far more flexible than Apple and its IOS in many ways. > > Rocky road? Well I don't know, if the market is anything to go by then no certainly not as Android phones now are out selling Iphone by 2 to 1 though this can change of course. I'm in no doubt that a significant proportion of blind people will by Android phones if the software to allow them to speak is good enough and cheap enough. > > > > On 4/03/2011 4:34 AM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: >> Hello Martin >> On 3 Mar 2011, at 16:58, Martin McCormick wrote: >> >> I see where a company is now selling a screen reader for >> the Android phones. It may be excellent for all I know, but >> haven't we seen this movie before? >> >> >> yes, we've been down that rocky road before. Talks, MibileSpeak and I think there are more. >> >> Lynne >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free >> >> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat >> >> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group since the 12th of April 2010, at: >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html >> > _______________________________________________ > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group since the 12th of April 2010, at: > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > From grtdane at internode.on.net Thu Mar 3 21:34:50 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2011 08:34:50 +1100 Subject: Extra Cost Addons Versus Built right in In-Reply-To: References: <201103031658.p23GwNqO078390@x.it.okstate.edu> <349374D7-DD65-41D9-AA6E-5E37488F2607@mac-access.net> <4D6FD539.5020404@internode.on.net> Message-ID: <4D70097A.7060800@internode.on.net> Its only early days yet but I'd be surprised if the voice quality of the Screen Reader didn't get better over time, remember what the first software synths were like with Windows? If you could get them to work for long enough that is . On 4/03/2011 8:22 AM, Sarah Alawami wrote: > If google thought would do what apple did then yeah I would go for an android phone but not with a screen reader that sounds like flextalk. lol. hehahahahaha! I think I've been spoiled. > On Mar 3, 2011, at 9:51 AM, Dane Trethowan wrote: > >> I'm glad that people have a choice regarding mobile phones that talk, the Iphone is not everything and perfect to all people but the problem is going to be as far as I know with the Android phone that of change, the OS changes frequently so the developers of the speech software are in theory never going to be on top of any new features that come out for Android. >> >> The second problem is going to be that different manufacturers of Android devices use different versions of the Android operating system I'm lead to believe but if one can get their head around all that? Well I've no reason to doubt that the Android operating system would be an excellent choice for some people as its far more flexible than Apple and its IOS in many ways. >> >> Rocky road? Well I don't know, if the market is anything to go by then no certainly not as Android phones now are out selling Iphone by 2 to 1 though this can change of course. I'm in no doubt that a significant proportion of blind people will by Android phones if the software to allow them to speak is good enough and cheap enough. >> >> >> >> On 4/03/2011 4:34 AM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: >>> Hello Martin >>> On 3 Mar 2011, at 16:58, Martin McCormick wrote: >>> >>> I see where a company is now selling a screen reader for >>> the Android phones. It may be excellent for all I know, but >>> haven't we seen this movie before? >>> >>> >>> yes, we've been down that rocky road before. Talks, MibileSpeak and I think there are more. >>> >>> Lynne >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free >>> >>> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat >>> >>> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group since the 12th of April 2010, at: >>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free >> >> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat >> >> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group since the 12th of April 2010, at: >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html >> > _______________________________________________ > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group since the 12th of April 2010, at: > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > From gordon at mac-access.net Fri Mar 4 09:54:35 2011 From: gordon at mac-access.net (Gordon Smith) Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2011 09:54:35 +0000 Subject: Bootable DVD Of Windows Vista Message-ID: <30D81EB8-54F9-4265-A249-927B485233BA@mac-access.net> Hi All Anybody know by any chance where we can get our hands on a copy of the bootable DVD of Vista Ultimate? We have a license for it so we are not just looking to pirate. But our source media went bye-bye when Lynne accidentally left my bad on a bus one day and somebody walked off with it. So again, we're not looking to steal. Gordon From marrie12 at gmail.com Fri Mar 4 16:11:34 2011 From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah Alawami) Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2011 08:11:34 -0800 Subject: Extra Cost Addons Versus Built right in In-Reply-To: <4D70097A.7060800@internode.on.net> References: <201103031658.p23GwNqO078390@x.it.okstate.edu> <349374D7-DD65-41D9-AA6E-5E37488F2607@mac-access.net> <4D6FD539.5020404@internode.on.net> <4D70097A.7060800@internode.on.net> Message-ID: Yeah. I do. Yuck. Lol. On 03/03/2011, at 13:34, Dane Trethowan wrote: > Its only early days yet but I'd be surprised if the voice quality of the Screen Reader didn't get better over time, remember what the first software synths were like with Windows? If you could get them to work for long enough that is . > > > > > > On 4/03/2011 8:22 AM, Sarah Alawami wrote: >> If google thought would do what apple did then yeah I would go for an android phone but not with a screen reader that sounds like flextalk. lol. hehahahahaha! I think I've been spoiled. >> On Mar 3, 2011, at 9:51 AM, Dane Trethowan wrote: >> >>> I'm glad that people have a choice regarding mobile phones that talk, the Iphone is not everything and perfect to all people but the problem is going to be as far as I know with the Android phone that of change, the OS changes frequently so the developers of the speech software are in theory never going to be on top of any new features that come out for Android. >>> >>> The second problem is going to be that different manufacturers of Android devices use different versions of the Android operating system I'm lead to believe but if one can get their head around all that? Well I've no reason to doubt that the Android operating system would be an excellent choice for some people as its far more flexible than Apple and its IOS in many ways. >>> >>> Rocky road? Well I don't know, if the market is anything to go by then no certainly not as Android phones now are out selling Iphone by 2 to 1 though this can change of course. I'm in no doubt that a significant proportion of blind people will by Android phones if the software to allow them to speak is good enough and cheap enough. >>> >>> >>> >>> On 4/03/2011 4:34 AM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: >>>> Hello Martin >>>> On 3 Mar 2011, at 16:58, Martin McCormick wrote: >>>> >>>> I see where a company is now selling a screen reader for >>>> the Android phones. It may be excellent for all I know, but >>>> haven't we seen this movie before? >>>> >>>> >>>> yes, we've been down that rocky road before. Talks, MibileSpeak and I think there are more. >>>> >>>> Lynne >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >>>> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free >>>> >>>> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat >>>> >>>> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group since the 12th of April 2010, at: >>>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free >>> >>> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat >>> >>> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group since the 12th of April 2010, at: >>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free >> >> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat >> >> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group since the 12th of April 2010, at: >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html >> > _______________________________________________ > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group since the 12th of April 2010, at: > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > From grtdane at internode.on.net Sat Mar 5 01:50:51 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Sat, 05 Mar 2011 12:50:51 +1100 Subject: Asus EEEPC Netbook Message-ID: <4D7196FB.5060002@internode.on.net> Hi! I'm very proud to say that I'll be finally! getting my little paws on one of these things come Monday. I had considered a Netbook in the past though the main stumbling block me for was the price, got a EEEPC 1005 for under $400.00 Australian so I'll let you know how I go with it. I plan to use it for a variety of things, a handy traveller with the Zoom H1 is the most obvious as i can easily transfer files from one to the other for editing, the EEEPC will work fine with Sound Forge I'm told. I'm also reliably informed that Audio out as standard with the machine is excellent though I can see myself purchasing another Imic for additional recording functionality. My machine comes with Windows 7 though how long that will remain the operating system for the machine? Well I'm not quite sure, I know others who own these things who have installed Snow Leopard on them, LINUX etc. The only other things I'll be paying immediate attention to are the memory, that will be upgraded from 1GB to 2, the W-Fi card which will be replaced to take advantage of my WI-Fi N network here and ridding the system of that Dreadful Norton rubbish. So how many of you out there use Netbooks? I venture to say that at least one list member would have one. From gordon at mac-access.net Sun Mar 6 06:39:57 2011 From: gordon at mac-access.net (Gordon Smith) Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2011 06:39:57 +0000 Subject: Sumboddee wivv a Mac, Gizza 'And! Message-ID: <88A72212-DF7B-4B1E-9C0F-FCF9EE6021ED@mac-access.net> Hiya there I needs summboddee, Oh, Arr, Yare Iy Duzz, oo can 'elp wivv a project. OK, time to start being sensible. I need somebody trustworthy who happens to own a Mac who's game game to give me a hand with a very very small experiment. This experiment involves nothing too technical, nothing more than connecting to a resource from the finder. Really really difficult, I don't reckon. Any shakers, any takers? Gordon From juanitatighan at gmail.com Sun Mar 6 15:38:20 2011 From: juanitatighan at gmail.com (Jane) Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2011 10:38:20 -0500 Subject: Sumboddee wivv a Mac, Gizza 'And! In-Reply-To: <88A72212-DF7B-4B1E-9C0F-FCF9EE6021ED@mac-access.net> References: <88A72212-DF7B-4B1E-9C0F-FCF9EE6021ED@mac-access.net> Message-ID: I'll give it a try. Email me off-list at juanitatighan at gmail.com and tell me what you need me to do. Jane On Mar 6, 2011, at 1:39 AM, Gordon Smith wrote: > Hiya there > > I needs summboddee, Oh, Arr, Yare Iy Duzz, oo can 'elp wivv a project. > > OK, time to start being sensible. I need somebody trustworthy who happens to own a Mac who's game game to give me a hand with a very very small experiment. > > This experiment involves nothing too technical, nothing more than connecting to a resource from the finder. Really really difficult, I don't reckon. > > Any shakers, any takers? > > Gordon > > _______________________________________________ > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group since the 12th of April 2010, at: > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > From marrie12 at gmail.com Mon Mar 7 00:55:01 2011 From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah Alawami) Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2011 16:55:01 -0800 Subject: How to Grow Your Podcast Audience - Website Magazine - Website Magazine Message-ID: I found this on the net and thought I would where it. it is a bit long and it was written in 2008but I'd say some of the steps still apply. Take care. How to Grow Your Podcast Audience By Marcelo Lewin In the May issue of Website Magazine, we took a detailed approach to creating podcasts. Now we examine how to get your audience to listen in. You took the very first step and created your podcast. It sounds professional, you have an RSS feed for it and posted it to your website. But there?s a problem. You don?t have many (or any) subscribers. So how do you change that? You must start marketing to your intended audience. It means little how great your podcast sounds (or looks) or the depth of your coverage ? if you don?t market it, they will not come. So let?s look at some ways you can market your podcast to help grow your audience. iTunes - The King of Podcast Directories If your podcast is not listed in iTunes, you are missing a great opportunity to get hundreds (if not thousands) of new listeners or viewers. To get started, you need to have an iTunes-friendly RSS feed. To do this, I highly recommend you ?burn? your feed using FeedBurner.com. You also need to make sure your podcast has the appropriate keywords so that it can be found in the iTunes directory. Try searching for a similar podcasts to see what keywords people are using. Submitting your podcast to iTunes is very simple. Start by logging in (or creating a new iTunes account), then navigate to the Podcast directory inside the iTunes Store (iTunes Store-->Podcasts). In the center of the podcast store, you will see a big ?Submit a Podcast? icon. Click on that icon, enter your podcast feed URL and then click continue. After a few seconds (and if the feed is valid) you will get a screen that lets you verify the information about your podcast. After verification, just click on Finish and you are set. It usually takes around 24 to 48 hours to get approved, although sometimes it?s longer and sometimes it only takes a few minutes. Once approved, you will get an iTunes URL that you can post on your site so that people can subscribe. The big question that everyone wants to know is, ?How do I get my podcast on the main page of the iTunes podcast store?? There is nothing you can do except create a really great podcast, make sure you have a strong podcast cover image (the icon that represents your podcast), a great name and targeted keywords. The iTunes staff decides the podcasts to feature on the front page. And it?s not easy. I?ve tried everything ? even sending them cookies, but that didn?t work. However, if you are lucky enough to get highlighted you will gain some serious traffic. Therefore, it?s essential to make your podcast near perfect before submitting to iTunes. Other Podcast Directories Many people submit their podcast to the iTunes store and think their marketing job is complete. But that?s just the beginning. There are many listeners and viewers that don?t go to iTunes for podcasts, so you need to submit yours to as many directories as possible. Below is a short list of some other major directories you may want to consider. Podcast.com: http://www.podcast.com Digg: http://www.digg.com/podcasts Podcast Alley: http://podcastalley.com/add_a_podcast.php Podcast Pickle: http://www.podcastpickle.com/cast/add/ Zen Cast: http://www.ZenCast.com/ Yahoo Audio: http://search.yahoo.com/mrss/submit? There are hundreds of other directories you might consider, depending on the topic of your podcast and the demographic you are trying to target. To get a list of many more, just drop me an email and I will send you a document with many more directories. Social Networks Social networks are not just for teeny boppers. They are serious business development and marketing tools that you, as a podcaster and ?media mogul? should immediately learn how to use. If you don?t already have accounts or profiles on any of the following social networks, you need to get started. Facebook: http://www.FaceBook.com My Space: http://www.MySpace.com Bebo: http://www.Bebo.com Twitter: http://www.Twitter.com Linked In: http://www.LinkedIn.com Friend Feed: http://www.FriendFeed.com The key to each of these social networks is to build up your list of friends or contacts. However, don?t just add any friends ? the key is to become friends with your target audience. For example, the podcast shows of my website PixelHeadsNetwork.com are geared towards digital media creators, so I seek out and ask to be friends with people interested in Web design and development, eMarketing, video editing, motion graphics, flash development and digital photography, among others. You can easily search by keywords that will return both matching content and people. Like any social networking marketing, the key is to offer real value. Don?t just sell. Make sure you offer useful information so that people have a reason to accept your friendship. Once you?ve built up your friends, in the case of Facebook, make sure you update your status with valuable information. While no one cares that you?re ?drinking coffee now,? they may be interested when your next podcast is going to be available, or to read a quick industry tip. Email Lists Email remains a powerful marketing too. Try to grow a list, and whenever you have a new episode out, send an email to alert your audience. Will you have an important special guest in two weeks? Send out an email to your list to create the sense of anticipation. While it?s important to you keep your audience well informed, don?t overdo it or they will want to opt out of your list. But before sending any emails, add your podcast name, a short description and a link to your podcast as your email signature. You probably send out hundreds (if not thousands) of emails per month ? your signature acts as free advertising, not only with your contacts but to any recipients of forwarded emails. Press Releases Every time you release a new episode, make a story out of it and create a press release. Will you have an important guest on next week? Create a press release about it today and then next week when the episode is ready to go live. Press releases are read by not only the media, but also by thousands of people worldwide, so create them as often as possible. Along with your own media contacts, there are several online press release outlets ? some free, some pay per release and some subscription services. Take advantage of as many as you can. Blogs Hopefully you have a blog to promote your podcast. If not, create one immediately. Blogs are a perfect way to communicate information you are passionate about and love; therefore, it?s the perfect vehicle to promote your shows. Every time you release a new episode, post a blog entry with show notes ? an important part of podcast marketing. This allows people to see what?s in the show without needing to play the entire episode and it works wonders with your SEO. There are several free blog services out there, from the ultrasimplicity of Blogger, to more sophisticated (albeit slightly more labor-intensive) WordPress, TypePad and others. Your Audience and Guests Your audience can help spread the word about your podcast. Ask them to invite their friends. Throw a quick contest and give something away that?s valuable to the person who gets the most friends to sign up. It worked for AT&T with their friends and family campaign, why not for you? Similarly, if you have guests on your shows, ask them to send out a press release or an email newsletter when they appeared in your show and to invite their friends to tune in. You might be surprised how many guests I?ve interviewed on Meet The Experts (http://www.MeetTheExpertsShow.com) who have emailed their list and posted it on their blog. This not only helps from as marketing perspective, but also with SEO efforts. Start the Conversation! Of course, this article briefly touched on a few ways to market your podcast. With a little imagination and lots of time in front of your computer, you will be able to come up with other great ways to market your podcast. If you do, please drop me a line at Marcelo at PixelHeadsNetwork.com. I?d love to hear what you are doing and share your ideas with everyone in a future article. ? From lynne at mac-access.net Mon Mar 7 07:18:50 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 07:18:50 +0000 Subject: Sumboddee wivv a Mac, Gizza 'And! In-Reply-To: References: <88A72212-DF7B-4B1E-9C0F-FCF9EE6021ED@mac-access.net> Message-ID: Hello Jane This is resolved now, thank you all the same. All we needed was one person to try it and, I have to say I am gladdened by how many people came forward. So thank you to you all. Lynne On 6 Mar 2011, at 15:38, Jane wrote: I'll give it a try. Email me off-list at From gordon-and-lynne.mobile at mac-access.net Tue Mar 8 09:20:15 2011 From: gordon-and-lynne.mobile at mac-access.net (Gordon & Lynne Smith) Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2011 09:20:15 +0000 Subject: Asus EEEPC Netbook In-Reply-To: <4D7196FB.5060002@internode.on.net> References: <4D7196FB.5060002@internode.on.net> Message-ID: Hello Dane I guess great minds think alike; well, almost! We just also bought an Asus Netbook over the weekend; although it is not the same as yours. In some ways you have the advantage. Ours is one of the more modern dual-core type and, unfortunately, Asus has moved away from the distribution of recovery media. So we will have to see how we go with that; but the Interface of Windows 7 Starter edition is, like all Windows 7 interfaces, horrible! It interested me to note that Narrator and Magnifier came up automatically on ours during the setup procedure. But not quickly enough to do all of the setup as you can, for instance, with Mac OSX. Not that I am trying to draw comparisons because they are different. We only bought ours because of the fact that we cannot do things like Braille translation and embossing, DAISY publication and a small number of other task, easily on OSX and Gordon has given up trying to find ways. Frankly, we now want something that just works; no hassles, just works. For the most part, OSX gives us that. But for these specific tasks, it does not and we are in dire need of a solution. We talked it over at length and opted, given the fact that we already own expensive licenses to a number of products, to compromise by getting a net book rather than another desktop machine which, by enlarge, would be redundant. So, once we sort out the basic such as interface to our networks, it's a matter of getting things like Duxbery and OTS DJ Pro to work. Gordon wants to get back into the audio side of things and, now that he has the facility, he can do that. We recently disposed of our last remaining desktop machine. It wouldn't boot properly and Gordon doesn't have the patience with them that he used to have. He's totally lost interest in building PCs although he could probably have rebuilt it had he wanted too. But the point here is that we stripped all of the hard drives out of the machine before trashing it, and we plan to use them as a backup solution via an ATA caddy we have here. So that, along with Drop box and our own internal online facilities mean that we should have things pretty well covered. I can't remember the model of our machine but it has an Intel Atom 1.66 GHZ dual core processor with one of the new enhanced batteries which are supposed to give up to 8 hours of life with basic use. Of course, that does not take into account USB devices which will draw power from the machine. But well, we will see how we go. Anyway Dane if you want to discuss these machines, maybe we can do so off list. And it goes without saying that if we can be of any help. Lynne On 5 Mar 2011, at 01:50, Dane Trethowan wrote: > > I'm very proud to say that I'll be finally! getting my little paws on one of these things come Monday. > > I had considered a Netbook in the past though the main stumbling block me for was the price, got a EEEPC 1005 for under $400.00 Australian so I'll let you know how I go with it. > > I plan to use it for a variety of things, a handy traveller with the Zoom H1 is the most obvious as i can easily transfer files from one to the other for editing, the EEEPC will work fine with Sound Forge I'm told. > > I'm also reliably informed that Audio out as standard with the machine is excellent though I can see myself purchasing another Imic for additional recording functionality. > > My machine comes with Windows 7 though how long that will remain the operating system for the machine? Well I'm not quite sure, I know others who own these things who have installed Snow Leopard on them, LINUX etc. > > The only other things I'll be paying immediate attention to are the memory, that will be upgraded from 1GB to 2, the W-Fi card which will be replaced to take advantage of my WI-Fi N network here and ridding the system of that Dreadful Norton rubbish. > > So how many of you out there use Netbooks? I venture to say that at least one list member would have one. > From marrie12 at gmail.com Tue Mar 8 21:50:44 2011 From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah Alawami) Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2011 13:50:44 -0800 Subject: TechCrunch - Microsoft: How To Reassure Users When Your Site Goes Down, Using Message-ID: Will more and more companies take advantage of this? read on: Twitter http://bit.ly/eCwGDJ From lynne at mac-access.net Wed Mar 9 02:27:34 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2011 02:27:34 +0000 Subject: Anybody Tried This? Message-ID: Hello everybody out there in Technology land. Has anybody tried Window-Eyes version 7.5 beta 1 out and, if so, what's new? Gordon just got our netbook up on to the Internet and we discovered it. Is it worth trying or should we stick? We plan to try that NVDA thing when we get the chance as well. But first, before we try either of them, we need to sort out a workable backup solution. Lynne From moore.c at blueyonder.co.uk Wed Mar 9 09:50:40 2011 From: moore.c at blueyonder.co.uk (Chris Moore) Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2011 09:50:40 +0000 Subject: Anybody Tried This? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I believe GW Micro have renamed their scripts to "apps" and added remote access support so other Window Eyes users can remotely connect to each other's PC. Personally I prefer JAWS 12. NVDA is ok for a free screen reader, awful default voice though. You could also try System Access and Cobra. On 9 Mar 2011, at 02:27, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: > Hello everybody out there in Technology land. > > Has anybody tried Window-Eyes version 7.5 beta 1 out and, if so, what's new? Gordon just got our netbook up on to the Internet and we discovered it. Is it worth trying or should we stick? We plan to try that NVDA thing when we get the chance as well. But first, before we try either of them, we need to sort out a workable backup solution. > > Lynne > > > _______________________________________________ > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group since the 12th of April 2010, at: > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > From gordon at mac-access.net Wed Mar 9 10:49:43 2011 From: gordon at mac-access.net (Gordon Smith) Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2011 10:49:43 +0000 Subject: Anybody Tried This? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: hello Chris Don't talk to me about Jaws! After what the combination of sight & sound + Freedom Science Fiction did to me, I never again will go near their products. Even if it was the best, the only product available, I'd rather do without! Actualy though, this has become a mute point for the time being. Windows 7 was downloading and installing updates and then, suddenly, the netbook crashed. End of story; we can't figure out how to recover the darn thing! Lynne is unavailable at the moment anyway; but I am stuck. Gordon From grtdane at internode.on.net Wed Mar 9 10:57:58 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2011 21:57:58 +1100 Subject: Recovering an Asus EEEPC Netbook without Recovery DVD In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Only suggestion is to find a copy of the manual appropriate to your model of EEEPC and follow the recovery procedure as outlined in there, a nusance yep I know. I have a different model to yours and mine came with a DVD, not the same I know but I sincerely hope that the manuals are the same, with respect to the details of the recovery procedures, in my manual they're outlined step by step. On 09/03/2011, at 9:49 PM, Gordon Smith wrote: > hello Chris > > Don't talk to me about Jaws! After what the combination of sight & sound + Freedom Science Fiction did to me, I never again will go near their products. Even if it was the best, the only product available, I'd rather do without! > > Actualy though, this has become a mute point for the time being. Windows 7 was downloading and installing updates and then, suddenly, the netbook crashed. End of story; we can't figure out how to recover the darn thing! > > Lynne is unavailable at the moment anyway; but I am stuck. > > Gordon > > _______________________________________________ > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group since the 12th of April 2010, at: > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > From gordon at mac-access.net Wed Mar 9 11:45:11 2011 From: gordon at mac-access.net (Gordon Smith) Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2011 11:45:11 +0000 Subject: Recovering an Asus EEEPC Netbook without Recovery DVD In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Problem is solved. I've managed to get the system back up and running, probably more by luck than judgement. As for the manual, I think that this specific machine has been supplied with bodged together components in the box and I'll tell you why. We got a UK power lead. When we first powered up the machine it came up in German and we had a hell of a struggle getting it into English. And finally, you talk about manuals. The manual (if you call a couple of sheets of paper a manual), contains no English version whatsoever. It is here in Dutch, French, German, Italian, spanish and Swedish, but not English. So, currently, we can't even find the model number to try and find a manual for. The Asus website is a total round objects up when it comes to accessibility. Gordon On 9 Mar 2011, at 10:57, Dane Trethowan wrote: Only suggestion is to find a copy of the manual appropriate to your model of EEEPC and follow the recovery procedure as outlined in there, a nusance yep I know. I have a different model to yours and mine came with a DVD, not the same I know but I sincerely hope that the manuals are the same, with respect to the details of the recovery procedures, in my manual they're outlined step by step. On 09/03/2011, at 9:49 PM, Gordon Smith wrote: > hello Chris > > Don't talk to me about Jaws! After what the combination of sight & sound + Freedom Science Fiction did to me, I never again will go near their products. Even if it was the best, the only product available, I'd rather do without! > > Actualy though, this has become a mute point for the time being. Windows 7 was downloading and installing updates and then, suddenly, the netbook crashed. End of story; we can't figure out how to recover the darn thing! > > Lynne is unavailable at the moment anyway; but I am stuck. > > Gordon > > _______________________________________________ > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group since the 12th of April 2010, at: > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > _______________________________________________ The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group since the 12th of April 2010, at: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html From moore.c at blueyonder.co.uk Wed Mar 9 15:14:55 2011 From: moore.c at blueyonder.co.uk (Chris Moore) Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2011 15:14:55 +0000 Subject: Anybody Tried This? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Well I use JAWS 12 for work and suits me fine, plus it works very well with Windows 7 and the hideous ribbons in Office 2010. You tried running narrator for now? Are you sure it has crashed or has the sound simply just turned itself off? i.e. muted? On 9 Mar 2011, at 10:49, Gordon Smith wrote: > hello Chris > > Don't talk to me about Jaws! After what the combination of sight & sound + Freedom Science Fiction did to me, I never again will go near their products. Even if it was the best, the only product available, I'd rather do without! > > Actualy though, this has become a mute point for the time being. Windows 7 was downloading and installing updates and then, suddenly, the netbook crashed. End of story; we can't figure out how to recover the darn thing! > > Lynne is unavailable at the moment anyway; but I am stuck. > > Gordon > > _______________________________________________ > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group since the 12th of April 2010, at: > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > From grtdane at internode.on.net Wed Mar 9 17:02:37 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2011 04:02:37 +1100 Subject: Recovering an Asus EEEPC Netbook without Recovery DVD In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'm working on it. On 09/03/2011, at 10:45 PM, Gordon Smith wrote: > Problem is solved. I've managed to get the system back up and running, probably more by luck than judgement. > > As for the manual, I think that this specific machine has been supplied with bodged together components in the box and I'll tell you why. We got a UK power lead. When we first powered up the machine it came up in German and we had a hell of a struggle getting it into English. > > And finally, you talk about manuals. The manual (if you call a couple of sheets of paper a manual), contains no English version whatsoever. It is here in Dutch, French, German, Italian, spanish and Swedish, but not English. > > So, currently, we can't even find the model number to try and find a manual for. The Asus website is a total round objects up when it comes to accessibility. > > Gordon > > > On 9 Mar 2011, at 10:57, Dane Trethowan wrote: > > Only suggestion is to find a copy of the manual appropriate to your model of EEEPC and follow the recovery procedure as outlined in there, a nusance yep I know. > > I have a different model to yours and mine came with a DVD, not the same I know but I sincerely hope that the manuals are the same, with respect to the details of the recovery procedures, in my manual they're outlined step by step. > > > On 09/03/2011, at 9:49 PM, Gordon Smith wrote: > >> hello Chris >> >> Don't talk to me about Jaws! After what the combination of sight & sound + Freedom Science Fiction did to me, I never again will go near their products. Even if it was the best, the only product available, I'd rather do without! >> >> Actualy though, this has become a mute point for the time being. Windows 7 was downloading and installing updates and then, suddenly, the netbook crashed. End of story; we can't figure out how to recover the darn thing! >> >> Lynne is unavailable at the moment anyway; but I am stuck. >> >> Gordon >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free >> >> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat >> >> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group since the 12th of April 2010, at: >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html >> > > _______________________________________________ > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group since the 12th of April 2010, at: > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > > _______________________________________________ > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group since the 12th of April 2010, at: > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > From martin at x.it.okstate.edu Wed Mar 9 17:58:13 2011 From: martin at x.it.okstate.edu (Martin McCormick) Date: Wed, 09 Mar 2011 11:58:13 -0600 Subject: Recovering an Asus EEEPC Netbook without Recovery DVD Message-ID: <201103091758.p29HwDeu017151@x.it.okstate.edu> It sounds like you got what we call a "grey market" system. Those are not necessarily bad or illegal, but they tend to be export models and you are lucky that it had the correct power cable. Grey market devices also may have a grey warrantee in that it may be hard to get support if it chokes and you can't get it going, yourself. Gordon Smith writes: > Problem is solved. I've managed to get the system back up and running, > probably more by luck than judgement. From lynne at mac-access.net Wed Mar 9 23:52:21 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2011 23:52:21 +0000 Subject: Anybody Tried This? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5C5C9879-F0CB-4851-B0B9-6C58B4BC71EE@mac-access.net> Hello Chris On 9 Mar 2011, at 15:14, Chris Moore wrote: ? Well I use JAWS 12 for work and suits me fine, plus it works very well with Windows 7 and the hideous ribbons in Office 2010. Despite what we wanted to do, we are going to have to get some sort of Office solution to work with DBTWin. We will see what GW Micro says about WE and Office 2010 or 2007 if you can still buy 2007. Dane mentioned a programme the other day which sounds interesting. Very much so actually if we can get the DBTWin plugins for Office to work with it. ? You tried running narrator for now? Are you sure it has crashed or has the sound simply just turned itself off? i.e. muted? No, it had crashed Chris; I could see the lovely Blue screens. But it's fixed now, Gordon did some research and found out how to get the system back to factory defaults. And now it is upgraded to Windows 7 Ultimate, and working very well. From lynne at mac-access.net Wed Mar 9 23:54:18 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2011 23:54:18 +0000 Subject: Recovering an Asus EEEPC Netbook without Recovery DVD In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <189B5DBA-B5F6-418C-B57C-8A035B506DF7@mac-access.net> Hello Dane ? On 9 Mar 2011, at 17:02, Dane Trethowan wrote: I'm working on it. Sorted now, Gordon got there first. ;-) From lynne at mac-access.net Wed Mar 9 23:57:46 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2011 23:57:46 +0000 Subject: Recovering an Asus EEEPC Netbook without Recovery DVD In-Reply-To: <201103091758.p29HwDeu017151@x.it.okstate.edu> References: <201103091758.p29HwDeu017151@x.it.okstate.edu> Message-ID: <96FC2036-97F3-4188-9D06-28D9E5054113@mac-access.net> Hello Martin I have cut most of your post; forgive me, I did read it; but it's no longer an issue. On 9 Mar 2011, at 17:58, Martin McCormick wrote: ? It sounds like you got what we call a "grey market" system. No, you're not quite right on this one. It's a genuine system bought from a genuine source. Its just one of those ugly Windows crashes. But fixed now. Lynne From grtdane at internode.on.net Thu Mar 10 00:20:28 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2011 11:20:28 +1100 Subject: Jarte Plus, cheaper and more accessible than Office 2010 In-Reply-To: <5C5C9879-F0CB-4851-B0B9-6C58B4BC71EE@mac-access.net> References: <5C5C9879-F0CB-4851-B0B9-6C58B4BC71EE@mac-access.net> Message-ID: <65E59D93-B772-4267-9E76-3DBE0BF47AC3@internode.on.net> Have you considered this application? Only costs $20.00 from memory and is far more accessible than Office 2010 though its only a Word processing package and not a Spreadsheet etc. On 10/03/2011, at 10:52 AM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: > Hello Chris > > On 9 Mar 2011, at 15:14, Chris Moore wrote: > > ? Well I use JAWS 12 for work and suits me fine, plus it works very well with Windows 7 and the hideous ribbons in Office 2010. > > Despite what we wanted to do, we are going to have to get some sort of Office solution to work with DBTWin. We will see what GW Micro says about WE and Office 2010 or 2007 if you can still buy 2007. > > Dane mentioned a programme the other day which sounds interesting. Very much so actually if we can get the DBTWin plugins for Office to work with it. > > ? You tried running narrator for now? Are you sure it has crashed or has the sound simply just turned itself off? i.e. muted? > > No, it had crashed Chris; I could see the lovely Blue screens. But it's fixed now, Gordon did some research and found out how to get the system back to factory defaults. And now it is upgraded to Windows 7 Ultimate, and working very well. > > > _______________________________________________ > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group since the 12th of April 2010, at: > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > From grtdane at internode.on.net Thu Mar 10 00:21:13 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2011 11:21:13 +1100 Subject: Recovering an Asus EEEPC Netbook without Recovery DVD In-Reply-To: <189B5DBA-B5F6-418C-B57C-8A035B506DF7@mac-access.net> References: <189B5DBA-B5F6-418C-B57C-8A035B506DF7@mac-access.net> Message-ID: Excellent! the people I speak to know next to nothing about Windows 7, well accept one . On 10/03/2011, at 10:54 AM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: > Hello Dane > > ? On 9 Mar 2011, at 17:02, Dane Trethowan wrote: > > I'm working on it. > > > Sorted now, Gordon got there first. ;-) > > > _______________________________________________ > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group since the 12th of April 2010, at: > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > From lynne at mac-access.net Thu Mar 10 00:49:38 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2011 00:49:38 +0000 Subject: Jarte Plus, cheaper and more accessible than Office 2010 In-Reply-To: <65E59D93-B772-4267-9E76-3DBE0BF47AC3@internode.on.net> References: <5C5C9879-F0CB-4851-B0B9-6C58B4BC71EE@mac-access.net> <65E59D93-B772-4267-9E76-3DBE0BF47AC3@internode.on.net> Message-ID: <27D6F92C-2FEF-48D8-AFB5-FB2DDE224E54@mac-access.net> Hello Dane On 10 Mar 2011, at 00:20, Dane Trethowan wrote: Have you considered this application? ? Only costs $20.00 from memory and is far more accessible than Office 2010 though its only a Word processing package and not a Spreadsheet etc. The cost isn't the issue here. The issue is that the Braille translator and emboss plug-ins won't be there. Basic text editing and even word processing isn't an issue. But Braille is! Lynne From grtdane at internode.on.net Thu Mar 10 01:15:08 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2011 12:15:08 +1100 Subject: Braille Embossing In-Reply-To: <27D6F92C-2FEF-48D8-AFB5-FB2DDE224E54@mac-access.net> References: <5C5C9879-F0CB-4851-B0B9-6C58B4BC71EE@mac-access.net> <65E59D93-B772-4267-9E76-3DBE0BF47AC3@internode.on.net> <27D6F92C-2FEF-48D8-AFB5-FB2DDE224E54@mac-access.net> Message-ID: <4D78261C.9070306@internode.on.net> Okay I now see where you're coming from. I don't know how far along the development of the Braille Embossing plug-ins for Open Office under Windows has come, haven't checked that side of things for a while as I don't use Open Office on my Windows system, just under the Mac and VINUX. On 10/03/2011 11:49 AM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: > Hello Dane > > On 10 Mar 2011, at 00:20, Dane Trethowan wrote: > > Have you considered this application? > > ? Only costs $20.00 from memory and is far more accessible than Office 2010 though its only a Word processing package and not a Spreadsheet etc. > > > The cost isn't the issue here. The issue is that the Braille translator and emboss plug-ins won't be there. Basic text editing and even word processing isn't an issue. But Braille is! > > Lynne > > _______________________________________________ > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group since the 12th of April 2010, at: > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > From lynne at mac-access.net Thu Mar 10 01:25:07 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2011 01:25:07 +0000 Subject: Braille Embossing In-Reply-To: <4D78261C.9070306@internode.on.net> References: <5C5C9879-F0CB-4851-B0B9-6C58B4BC71EE@mac-access.net> <65E59D93-B772-4267-9E76-3DBE0BF47AC3@internode.on.net> <27D6F92C-2FEF-48D8-AFB5-FB2DDE224E54@mac-access.net> <4D78261C.9070306@internode.on.net> Message-ID: <0B3441E7-5996-4597-ACD6-5155E2D578B3@mac-access.net> Hello Dane On 10 Mar 2011, at 01:15, Dane Trethowan wrote: ? Okay I now see where you're coming from. Since this looks like another all-night session, much to my disgust, maybe we'll play about with this. We want to get things like 1Password and SimpleNotes set up anyway, as well as MobileMe control panel and lots more things. DBT used to work alright with NoteTab Pro, (why is the app you're talking about better than that, by the way?). But we'd like to have the internal plug-ins if possible and Gordon has already ruled out Open Office. The last time we tried that under Windows it destroyed our registry. Never again, it's not worth the risk. We already have a commercial license for DBTWin so it's really not worth mucking about with Open Office in the hope that we can get it to work. Lynne From grtdane at internode.on.net Thu Mar 10 01:34:11 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2011 12:34:11 +1100 Subject: Braille Embossing In-Reply-To: <0B3441E7-5996-4597-ACD6-5155E2D578B3@mac-access.net> References: <5C5C9879-F0CB-4851-B0B9-6C58B4BC71EE@mac-access.net> <65E59D93-B772-4267-9E76-3DBE0BF47AC3@internode.on.net> <27D6F92C-2FEF-48D8-AFB5-FB2DDE224E54@mac-access.net> <4D78261C.9070306@internode.on.net> <0B3441E7-5996-4597-ACD6-5155E2D578B3@mac-access.net> Message-ID: <710BC593-19BC-4099-909A-D191C20D8A24@internode.on.net> Notetab Pro is a different beast to Jarte + if that's what you're referring to, Notetab Pro is for all intensive purposes a text editor but still I'm afraid isn't fully accessible though can be made accessible by tweaking a few things here and there with Window-Eyes as I have done. Jarte Plus on the other hand is a fully functional word processing package which edits Office files, Notetab Pro does not. Jarte Plus is fully accessible, everything including the Spell Checking facility and the Auto Correction fuctions whereas Notetab Pro is not. Open Office destroying registry's? Well first time for everything I suppose but its never happened here to my Windows machine, I was testing it last year with NVDA and it worked fine, didn't change anything well if it did then it didn't destroy anything I rely upon. On 10/03/2011, at 12:25 PM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: > Hello Dane > > On 10 Mar 2011, at 01:15, Dane Trethowan wrote: > > ? Okay I now see where you're coming from. > > Since this looks like another all-night session, much to my disgust, maybe we'll play about with this. > > We want to get things like 1Password and SimpleNotes set up anyway, as well as MobileMe control panel and lots more things. > > DBT used to work alright with NoteTab Pro, (why is the app you're talking about better than that, by the way?). But we'd like to have the internal plug-ins if possible and Gordon has already ruled out Open Office. > > The last time we tried that under Windows it destroyed our registry. Never again, it's not worth the risk. We already have a commercial license for DBTWin so it's really not worth mucking about with Open Office in the hope that we can get it to work. > > Lynne > > _______________________________________________ > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group since the 12th of April 2010, at: > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > From martin at x.it.okstate.edu Thu Mar 10 01:50:54 2011 From: martin at x.it.okstate.edu (Martin McCormick) Date: Wed, 09 Mar 2011 19:50:54 -0600 Subject: Recovering an Asus EEEPC Netbook without Recovery DVD Message-ID: <201103100150.p2A1osP7019589@x.it.okstate.edu> "Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith" writes: > No, you're not quite right on this one. It's a genuine system bought from > a genuine source. Its just one of those ugly Windows crashes. But fixed > now. Well, that's all that really counts. Congratulations. From lynne at mac-access.net Thu Mar 10 02:18:30 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2011 02:18:30 +0000 Subject: Braille Embossing In-Reply-To: <710BC593-19BC-4099-909A-D191C20D8A24@internode.on.net> References: <5C5C9879-F0CB-4851-B0B9-6C58B4BC71EE@mac-access.net> <65E59D93-B772-4267-9E76-3DBE0BF47AC3@internode.on.net> <27D6F92C-2FEF-48D8-AFB5-FB2DDE224E54@mac-access.net> <4D78261C.9070306@internode.on.net> <0B3441E7-5996-4597-ACD6-5155E2D578B3@mac-access.net> <710BC593-19BC-4099-909A-D191C20D8A24@internode.on.net> Message-ID: <14170ED5-83D5-4BF3-9687-55EDD31B0DFF@mac-access.net> Hello Dane I just looked for it on Google but my friend let me down. Lynne From lynne at mac-access.net Thu Mar 10 02:22:41 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2011 02:22:41 +0000 Subject: Recovering an Asus EEEPC Netbook without Recovery DVD In-Reply-To: <201103100150.p2A1osP7019589@x.it.okstate.edu> References: <201103100150.p2A1osP7019589@x.it.okstate.edu> Message-ID: <9F3AFFE2-697F-42E4-A2E2-D807305A3AB8@mac-access.net> Hello Martin On 10 Mar 2011, at 01:50, Martin McCormick wrote: ? Well, that's all that really counts. Congratulations. It was Gordon who fixed it, I just sat and watched. But hey; does anybody know of a cure for a man who won't stop working? He's doing some coding for his employer and he's been at it it since 06:00 yesterday. OK, it is due in today; but it's not the end of the universe if it's a little late, is it? Lynne Lynne From grtdane at internode.on.net Thu Mar 10 02:41:43 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2011 13:41:43 +1100 Subject: Braille Embossing In-Reply-To: <14170ED5-83D5-4BF3-9687-55EDD31B0DFF@mac-access.net> References: <5C5C9879-F0CB-4851-B0B9-6C58B4BC71EE@mac-access.net> <65E59D93-B772-4267-9E76-3DBE0BF47AC3@internode.on.net> <27D6F92C-2FEF-48D8-AFB5-FB2DDE224E54@mac-access.net> <4D78261C.9070306@internode.on.net> <0B3441E7-5996-4597-ACD6-5155E2D578B3@mac-access.net> <710BC593-19BC-4099-909A-D191C20D8A24@internode.on.net> <14170ED5-83D5-4BF3-9687-55EDD31B0DFF@mac-access.net> Message-ID: Okay, start here http://www.jarte.com/ On 10/03/2011, at 1:18 PM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: > Hello Dane > > I just looked for it on Google but my friend let me down. > > Lynne > > _______________________________________________ > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group since the 12th of April 2010, at: > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > From martin at x.it.okstate.edu Thu Mar 10 16:04:58 2011 From: martin at x.it.okstate.edu (Martin McCormick) Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2011 10:04:58 -0600 Subject: Recovering an Asus EEEPC Netbook without Recovery DVD Message-ID: <201103101604.p2AG4wHj023331@x.it.okstate.edu> "Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith" writes: > It was Gordon who fixed it, I just sat and watched. But hey; does anybody > know of a cure for a man who won't stop working? He's doing some coding > for his employer and he's been at it it since 06:00 yesterday. OK, it is > due in today; but it's not the end of the universe if it's a little late, > is it? Having been in that kind of situation, the one thing to keep in mind is how long will it take to re-do half of it due to fatigue-induced errors that seemed exactly like the right thing to do at the foggy time one did it? We had one of those mega-upgrades several years ago in which everything was down at once or up and down so that we couldn't trust the network for a while. Some of my coworkers and I were up for 30 hours and it was coming down to the time when we were supposed to be through fixing things. One of our DHCP servers was choking on God knows what and 6 voices were shouting in to the phone to "DO SOMETHING!!!!" We ended up not finishing and having to schedule more down time a couple of weeks later, only to discover a small syntax error in a configuration file that someone who wasn't dead tired would have noticed instantly. Had we found it earlier, about 2 hours of pure frustration would have been avoided and we would have all been able to sleep. From marrie12 at gmail.com Fri Mar 11 01:40:13 2011 From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah Alawami) Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2011 17:40:13 -0800 Subject: More on SMS that can kill your smartphone Message-ID: <974AA42C-6EA0-424B-BF8D-34A88AB6A8F5@gmail.com> Will these holes be patched? http://j.mp/e8HYdX From marrie12 at gmail.com Sat Mar 12 05:01:36 2011 From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah Alawami) Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2011 21:01:36 -0800 Subject: Twitter Tells Developers to Stop Making Mainstream Clients Message-ID: <4C2D6397-F0B8-4F80-862F-49CE4B7CF762@gmail.com> I'm sending this to both lists as I'm not so sure where it is supposed to go lol. Twitter has published an update on the Twitter platform indicating that developers are no longer welcome to create mainstream Twitter clients. http://www.iClarified.com/14240 > From lynne at mac-access.net Sat Mar 12 14:25:59 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2011 14:25:59 +0000 Subject: Twitter Tells Developers to Stop Making Mainstream Clients In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1D91A6B7-8DA1-4E39-A8CE-DBB427293E57@mac-access.net> If that's the case and they're going to force people to use their website only, it's bye bye twitter as far as we're concerned. On 12 Mar 2011, at 03:36, Sarah Alawami wrote: Twitter has published an update on the Twitter platform indicating that developers are no longer welcome to create mainstream Twitter clients. From marrie12 at gmail.com Sat Mar 12 20:05:12 2011 From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah Alawami) Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2011 12:05:12 -0800 Subject: Twitter Tells Developers to Stop Making Mainstream Clients In-Reply-To: <1D91A6B7-8DA1-4E39-A8CE-DBB427293E57@mac-access.net> References: <1D91A6B7-8DA1-4E39-A8CE-DBB427293E57@mac-access.net> Message-ID: Well I have more news on that. They changed there terms of service but as of now it is not reflecting third party clients. but I would say go to http://twitter com and leave a ticke wiht them telling them this is not a good idea. Take care all. Sarah Alawami If you need an edit done on a small project go to http://music.marrie.org/master for more info. If you need to contact me my info is below. MSN and AIM: marrie12 at gmail.com website: http://music.marrie.org Podcast: http://marrie.podbean.com youtube: http://youtube.com/marrie125 On Mar 12, 2011, at 6:25 AM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: > If that's the case and they're going to force people to use their website only, it's bye bye twitter as far as we're concerned. > > On 12 Mar 2011, at 03:36, Sarah Alawami wrote: > > Twitter has published an update on the Twitter platform indicating that developers are no longer welcome to create mainstream Twitter clients. > > _______________________________________________ > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group since the 12th of April 2010, at: > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > From marrie12 at gmail.com Sun Mar 13 23:03:55 2011 From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah Alawami) Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2011 16:03:55 -0700 Subject: =?windows-1252?Q?The_Inquisitr_-_AT=26T_users_now_get_to_share_t?= =?windows-1252?Q?heir_Canadian_neighbors_pain_=96_150GB_Caps_for?= =?windows-1252?Q?_all_?= Message-ID: <1309BB5A-B66F-4ADA-862F-69E36639BBDA@gmail.com> Are at7t nuts here? read on. http://bit.ly/gQs6Ao From grtdane at internode.on.net Mon Mar 14 07:30:08 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2011 18:30:08 +1100 Subject: Speakers for a portable computer Message-ID: <39F199D6-8C6B-440C-9EA3-9B38141FAC2E@internode.on.net> Hi! I recently purchased a Netbook, up until recent times I considered these machines as toys though my attitude has changed somewhat since I've used one. The big problem with a Netbook can be the quality of the speakers which are built-in to the computer so that set me looking for something small which I could plug into the Netbook which would deliver me? Well better sound than the speakers in the Netbook itself. Bluetooth speakers were out as Bluetooth exhibits a slight delay and I really didn't want that given that I'd be using these speakers with a Screen Reader and speech. So looking around my search brought me to the tiny Logitech LS150 stereo USB powered speakers, around about $20.00 Australian. What a bargain! These speakers are by no means your top of the line hi-fi speakers but for their size they certainly deliver quite a bit of punch, more than acceptable for what I want, playing music through them right now. Being USB powered these speakers have a sound card in the, it shows on the system tray. 3 buttons on the front of the right speaker provide access to the volume control, the middle of the 3 mutes the system, when the system is muted a light comes on though that's hardly useful for me . I've tried these speakers on all the computers here and they're recognised by the various operating systems I use without a hitch. Now the next thing to do is to get me another Imic for recording, I've tried recording line-out sources through the Microphone jack, it can be done though you have to be extremely careful with the audio level setting. From marrie12 at gmail.com Mon Mar 14 20:45:30 2011 From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah Alawami) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2011 13:45:30 -0700 Subject: Speakers for a portable computer In-Reply-To: <39F199D6-8C6B-440C-9EA3-9B38141FAC2E@internode.on.net> References: <39F199D6-8C6B-440C-9EA3-9B38141FAC2E@internode.on.net> Message-ID: If they still exist I would get the jbl on tour speakers. they are quite good! On Mar 14, 2011, at 12:30 AM, Dane Trethowan wrote: > Hi! > > I recently purchased a Netbook, up until recent times I considered these machines as toys though my attitude has changed somewhat since I've used one. > > The big problem with a Netbook can be the quality of the speakers which are built-in to the computer so that set me looking for something small which I could plug into the Netbook which would deliver me? Well better sound than the speakers in the Netbook itself. > > Bluetooth speakers were out as Bluetooth exhibits a slight delay and I really didn't want that given that I'd be using these speakers with a Screen Reader and speech. > > So looking around my search brought me to the tiny Logitech LS150 stereo USB powered speakers, around about $20.00 Australian. > > What a bargain! These speakers are by no means your top of the line hi-fi speakers but for their size they certainly deliver quite a bit of punch, more than acceptable for what I want, playing music through them right now. > > Being USB powered these speakers have a sound card in the, it shows on the system tray. 3 buttons on the front of the right speaker provide access to the volume control, the middle of the 3 mutes the system, when the system is muted a light comes on though that's hardly useful for me . > > I've tried these speakers on all the computers here and they're recognised by the various operating systems I use without a hitch. > > Now the next thing to do is to get me another Imic for recording, I've tried recording line-out sources through the Microphone jack, it can be done though you have to be extremely careful with the audio level setting. > > > _______________________________________________ > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group since the 12th of April 2010, at: > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > From gordon at mac-access.net Mon Mar 14 23:04:24 2011 From: gordon at mac-access.net (Gordon Smith) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2011 23:04:24 +0000 Subject: Speakers for a portable computer In-Reply-To: <39F199D6-8C6B-440C-9EA3-9B38141FAC2E@internode.on.net> References: <39F199D6-8C6B-440C-9EA3-9B38141FAC2E@internode.on.net> Message-ID: <62FC7AA1-F38D-402E-86E0-5F9BE73F1EF4@mac-access.net> What's wrong with your iMic? I too have a netbook and the iMic works a treat. But I have to say I think you're worrying way too much about a very very small delay in speech where bluetooth is concerned. What difference does about Point One of a second make? On 14 Mar 2011, at 07:30, Dane Trethowan wrote: Hi! I recently purchased a Netbook, up until recent times I considered these machines as toys though my attitude has changed somewhat since I've used one. The big problem with a Netbook can be the quality of the speakers which are built-in to the computer so that set me looking for something small which I could plug into the Netbook which would deliver me? Well better sound than the speakers in the Netbook itself. Bluetooth speakers were out as Bluetooth exhibits a slight delay and I really didn't want that given that I'd be using these speakers with a Screen Reader and speech. So looking around my search brought me to the tiny Logitech LS150 stereo USB powered speakers, around about $20.00 Australian. What a bargain! These speakers are by no means your top of the line hi-fi speakers but for their size they certainly deliver quite a bit of punch, more than acceptable for what I want, playing music through them right now. Being USB powered these speakers have a sound card in the, it shows on the system tray. 3 buttons on the front of the right speaker provide access to the volume control, the middle of the 3 mutes the system, when the system is muted a light comes on though that's hardly useful for me . I've tried these speakers on all the computers here and they're recognised by the various operating systems I use without a hitch. Now the next thing to do is to get me another Imic for recording, I've tried recording line-out sources through the Microphone jack, it can be done though you have to be extremely careful with the audio level setting. _______________________________________________ The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group since the 12th of April 2010, at: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html From grtdane at internode.on.net Mon Mar 14 23:49:15 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 10:49:15 +1100 Subject: Speakers for a portable computer In-Reply-To: <62FC7AA1-F38D-402E-86E0-5F9BE73F1EF4@mac-access.net> References: <39F199D6-8C6B-440C-9EA3-9B38141FAC2E@internode.on.net> <62FC7AA1-F38D-402E-86E0-5F9BE73F1EF4@mac-access.net> Message-ID: <4D7EA97B.8010807@internode.on.net> Nothing wrong with an Imic whatever and as I stated I intend on getting one. That .1 of a second delay can vary between devices and different screen readers and speech synths. I also explained in my previous message that these speakers will work with any computer and operating system it seems so for that very reason alone I'm going to find them useful, no wiring to get sound just plug em in and away you go though it would be nice if they had a peadphone socket on the front but at $20.00? Well I'm not complaining. On 15/03/2011 10:04 AM, Gordon Smith wrote: > What's wrong with your iMic? I too have a netbook and the iMic works a treat. But I have to say I think you're worrying way too much about a very very small delay in speech where bluetooth is concerned. What difference does about Point One of a second make? > > On 14 Mar 2011, at 07:30, Dane Trethowan wrote: > > Hi! > > I recently purchased a Netbook, up until recent times I considered these machines as toys though my attitude has changed somewhat since I've used one. > > The big problem with a Netbook can be the quality of the speakers which are built-in to the computer so that set me looking for something small which I could plug into the Netbook which would deliver me? Well better sound than the speakers in the Netbook itself. > > Bluetooth speakers were out as Bluetooth exhibits a slight delay and I really didn't want that given that I'd be using these speakers with a Screen Reader and speech. > > So looking around my search brought me to the tiny Logitech LS150 stereo USB powered speakers, around about $20.00 Australian. > > What a bargain! These speakers are by no means your top of the line hi-fi speakers but for their size they certainly deliver quite a bit of punch, more than acceptable for what I want, playing music through them right now. > > Being USB powered these speakers have a sound card in the, it shows on the system tray. 3 buttons on the front of the right speaker provide access to the volume control, the middle of the 3 mutes the system, when the system is muted a light comes on though that's hardly useful for me. > > I've tried these speakers on all the computers here and they're recognised by the various operating systems I use without a hitch. > > Now the next thing to do is to get me another Imic for recording, I've tried recording line-out sources through the Microphone jack, it can be done though you have to be extremely careful with the audio level setting. > > > _______________________________________________ > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group since the 12th of April 2010, at: > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > > _______________________________________________ > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group since the 12th of April 2010, at: > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > From grtdane at internode.on.net Mon Mar 14 23:57:02 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 10:57:02 +1100 Subject: Podcast on NVDA Screen Reader Message-ID: <4D7EAB4E.8070905@internode.on.net> Hi! Would anyone be interested if I did a Podcast on the NVDA Screen reader? Has anyone else done a Podcast on this subject I wonder? I don't want to repeat what's already been done. I've finally had time to do some serious homework and explore many of the features of NVDA I previously didn't know existed and I can assure you all that this open source Screen Reading solution is a little power house that puts the Big Boys to shame in many different areas of accesibility. For those who are used to the Voiceover Screen Reader which runs on a Mac then you're going to find using NVDA a real treat, navigation can be by object onscreen as well as your standard word, character, line, mouse position etc. I would hope that someone on list may be able to find some time to test the Braille support of NVDA, looks very nice. NVDA has been translated into over 20 languages according to the documentation. You can find out more about NVDA by visiting the web site at http://www.nvda-project.org/ From grtdane at internode.on.net Tue Mar 15 00:05:51 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 11:05:51 +1100 Subject: Podcast on NVDA Screen Reader Message-ID: I neglected to mention in my previous post the excellent table navigation features NVDA has to offer, navigate via row or by column as you can with the Mac, these commands also work in Office 2010 I believe though I haven't had a chance to try that. No, not paid to advertise NVDA but I like giving Open Source products good support where I can particularly when they're doing more than the "Big Boys" seem to be doing right now. From tsiegel at softcon.com Tue Mar 15 14:54:54 2011 From: tsiegel at softcon.com (Travis Siegel) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 09:54:54 -0500 Subject: Podcast on NVDA Screen Reader In-Reply-To: <4D7EAB4E.8070905@internode.on.net> References: <4D7EAB4E.8070905@internode.on.net> Message-ID: I don't know about lately, but the last time I looked at nvda, it couldn't handle anything that wasn't msaa compliant, and in xp, that wasn't very much. I suppose that has changed with vista and windows 7, but having neither system, and having no desire to find out, that'll be the limit of my experience. From grtdane at internode.on.net Tue Mar 15 19:46:06 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 06:46:06 +1100 Subject: Podcast on NVDA Screen Reader In-Reply-To: References: <4D7EAB4E.8070905@internode.on.net> Message-ID: <4D7FC1FE.3030102@internode.on.net> A great deal with NVDA has changed in a very short time for Winodws XP and Vista, 7 etc so your statement is now thankfully false , I'm using NVDA with all sorts of software which certainly doesn't have the conditions you specified, my video recorder is one of those and I'm quite surprised it works! it certainly does and I think the object navigation makes all the difference. On 16/03/2011 1:54 AM, Travis Siegel wrote: > I don't know about lately, but the last time I looked at nvda, it > couldn't handle anything that wasn't msaa compliant, and in xp, that > wasn't very much. > I suppose that has changed with vista and windows 7, but having > neither system, and having no desire to find out, that'll be the limit > of my experience. > > _______________________________________________ > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, > virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's > dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat > group since the 12th of April 2010, at: > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > From marrie12 at gmail.com Wed Mar 16 05:35:48 2011 From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah Alawami) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 22:35:48 -0700 Subject: Fwd: [ Adoption of Google Apps Program Discriminates Against the Blind References: Message-ID: <4FDAB234-BE1C-4863-AB6F-72DF7E7DDD9E@gmail.com> Not surprised at this. this is disgusting. Google is not willing to stop up and cooperate with us. Read below. Begin forwarded message: > FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE > > > CONTACT: > > Chris Danielsen > > Director of Public Relations > > National Federation of the Blind > > (410) 659-9314, extension 2330 > > (410) 262-1281 (Cell) > > cdanielsen at nfb.org > > > > Adoption of Google Apps Program Discriminates Against the Blind > > > National Federation of the Blind Asks > Department of Justice to Investigate Schools Across the Country > > Baltimore, Maryland (March 15, 2011): The National Federation of the Blind (NFB), the oldest and largest nationwide organization of blind people in the United States, today requested that the United States Department of Justice, Civil Rights Division, investigate civil rights violations committed by New York University (NYU) and Northwestern University against blind faculty and students. The NFB made the request because the schools have adopted technology that is not accessible to the blind. Both universities have recently adopted Google Apps for Education as a means of providing e-mail and collaboration tools to students and faculty. Google Apps for Education is a free suite of hosted communication and collaboration applications that includes Gmail, Google Calendar, Google Talk, Google Docs, and Google Sites. Each of these applications contains significant accessibility barriers for blind people utilizing screen access technology, which converts what is on the computer screen into synthesized speech or Braille. A similar request for investigation has been filed against four Oregon public school districts that are using Google Apps. The complaints allege violations of the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) and the Rehabilitation Act of 1973. For further illustration of this matter, please view a demonstration of screen access technology used by the blind and the accessibility barriers that a blind person experiences using Google Apps. > > > > Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind, said: ?Given the many accessible options available, there is no good reason that these universities should choose a suite of applications, including critical e-mail services, that is inaccessible to blind students. Worse yet, according to recent data more than half of the American higher education institutions that are outsourcing e-mail to third-party vendors plan to deploy this suite, even though they know that it cannot be used by blind students. Nor can these universities claim ignorance of their legal obligations, since the United States Department of Justice and the United States Department of Education have specifically warned all university presidents against the adoption of inaccessible technology. The National Federation of the Blind will not tolerate this unconscionable discrimination against blind students and faculty and callous indifference to the right of blind students to receive an equal education. We urge these higher education institutions to suspend their adoption of Google Apps for Education until it is accessible to all students and faculty, not just the sighted, or to reject Google Apps entirely.? > > > > The National Federation of the Blind is represented in this matter by Daniel F. Goldstein of the Baltimore firm Brown, Goldstein, and Levy. > > > > > > ### > > > > > > About the National Federation of the Blind > > With more than 50,000 members, the National Federation of the Blind is the largest and most influential membership organization of blind people in the United States. The NFB improves blind people?s lives through advocacy, education, research, technology, and programs encouraging independence and self-confidence. It is the leading force in the blindness field today and the voice of the nation's blind. In January 2004 the NFB opened the National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, the first research and training center in the United States for the blind led by the blind. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Nfbnet-members-list mailing list > Nfbnet-members-list at nfbnet.org From gordon at mac-access.net Wed Mar 16 11:37:34 2011 From: gordon at mac-access.net (Gordon Smith) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 11:37:34 +0000 Subject: [ Adoption of Google Apps Program Discriminates Against the Blind In-Reply-To: <4FDAB234-BE1C-4863-AB6F-72DF7E7DDD9E@gmail.com> References: <4FDAB234-BE1C-4863-AB6F-72DF7E7DDD9E@gmail.com> Message-ID: <3F71369E-7F39-4794-8CE9-79EA4F905B75@mac-access.net> The problem is that so many of you use Google that they simply don't care. Google is the worst thing, with the exception of the search engine, that ever hit the Internet. People insist on using it rather than the email addresses their providers give them, for instance. yet, as soon as they Google does something that they don't like, the screaming starts. To be honest I find it hard to sympathise. Gordon From gordon at mac-access.net Wed Mar 16 17:59:43 2011 From: gordon at mac-access.net (Gordon Smith) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 17:59:43 +0000 Subject: New MobileMe Control Panel Message-ID: Hi all In case you haven't been notified and you are a MobileMe user, you need to upgrade any old services to the new version by 5 May 2011. This includes calendars and other new stuff which I'm not quite sure of off the top of my head. If you're a Windows user of MobileMe, here's a link to the control panel application which might be of help to you: As an aside note, There's a misconception amongst certain people that all Dropbox transfers are SSL encrypted but, as the above link proves, that isn't the case at all. However this isn't a sensitive file so you're alright. I'm about to try the control panel on our new netbook for accessibility actually. Gordon From gordon at mac-access.net Wed Mar 16 21:34:34 2011 From: gordon at mac-access.net (Gordon Smith) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 21:34:34 +0000 Subject: Cepstral Voices Message-ID: <8CFDE460-343D-4279-BE3D-9F32A5E9BA39@mac-access.net> Hi all has anybody tried the latest Cepstral English voices for Windows? I am considering trying them since I already have licenses for them and I got absolutely no response to any of the messages i sent to the UK dealer of the Infovox Desktop. That, to me at least, is the height of ignorance and that's especially true when I was requesting purchase information from him. Be that as it may, (and I plan to contact Acapella to advise them of the total lack of response), I thought I would give Cepstral a try because the Microsoft voices which ship with Windows 7 and especially, that disgustingly awful Dectalk 32 for Window-Eyes voice, (if you can call the latter a "voice"), are becoming utterly intolerable to me. I don't know where my copies of the British, American and Australian RealSpeak voices went. But they appear to have bitten the dust. No matter, they're not especially nice anyway. I suppose I've just sort of become very accustomed to the high quality of speech I get from the Acapella Infovox voices on our Macs, and I demand the same sort of performance now from our Windows machine, now that it's no longer virtual, and no longer broken. So, to summarise again, has anybody tried Cepstral 5.0 for Windows? If you want to try these voices, or just hear what they sound like for your device, you can visit to hear them live on line,, to download the voices. I'm not sure whether there's a local trial mode, but you can certainly use the online demos link (above) to hear what your own words would sound like spoken in the voices of your choices before you buy. Gordon From marrie12 at gmail.com Wed Mar 16 22:23:28 2011 From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah Alawami) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 15:23:28 -0700 Subject: [ Adoption of Google Apps Program Discriminates Against the Blind In-Reply-To: <3F71369E-7F39-4794-8CE9-79EA4F905B75@mac-access.net> References: <4FDAB234-BE1C-4863-AB6F-72DF7E7DDD9E@gmail.com> <3F71369E-7F39-4794-8CE9-79EA4F905B75@mac-access.net> Message-ID: <6DEF9DCB-AB82-4436-A7C9-D5C10A7F257B@gmail.com> I use an dlove my gmail. Ok who can I go wrong with over 7 gig of storage and counting up lol! but yeah I read the agreement that you sign when you have gmail and basically google keeps yoru emails even if you switch to another provider. tat's fine as I just email and don't do anything that's nasty lol! but some organizatins here tried to sue google and they did win but google still is not willing to cooperate. On Mar 16, 2011, at 4:37 AM, Gordon Smith wrote: > The problem is that so many of you use Google that they simply don't care. Google is the worst thing, with the exception of the search engine, that ever hit the Internet. People insist on using it rather than the email addresses their providers give them, for instance. yet, as soon as they Google does something that they don't like, the screaming starts. > > To be honest I find it hard to sympathise. > > Gordon > > _______________________________________________ > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group since the 12th of April 2010, at: > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > From moore.c at blueyonder.co.uk Wed Mar 16 22:45:50 2011 From: moore.c at blueyonder.co.uk (Chris Moore) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 22:45:50 +0000 Subject: Cepstral Voices In-Reply-To: <8CFDE460-343D-4279-BE3D-9F32A5E9BA39@mac-access.net> References: <8CFDE460-343D-4279-BE3D-9F32A5E9BA39@mac-access.net> Message-ID: See Gee, if you had got JAWS 12 you would have access to real speak voices for free :) Hope ya like em as you'll be stuck with them on the Mac from the Summer *sticks tongue out* On 16 Mar 2011, at 21:34, Gordon Smith wrote: > Hi all > > has anybody tried the latest Cepstral English voices for Windows? I am considering trying them since I already have licenses for them and I got absolutely no response to any of the messages i sent to the UK dealer of the Infovox Desktop. That, to me at least, is the height of ignorance and that's especially true when I was requesting purchase information from him. > > Be that as it may, (and I plan to contact Acapella to advise them of the total lack of response), I thought I would give Cepstral a try because the Microsoft voices which ship with Windows 7 and especially, that disgustingly awful Dectalk 32 for Window-Eyes voice, (if you can call the latter a "voice"), are becoming utterly intolerable to me. > > I don't know where my copies of the British, American and Australian RealSpeak voices went. But they appear to have bitten the dust. No matter, they're not especially nice anyway. I suppose I've just sort of become very accustomed to the high quality of speech I get from the Acapella Infovox voices on our Macs, and I demand the same sort of performance now from our Windows machine, now that it's no longer virtual, and no longer broken. > > So, to summarise again, has anybody tried Cepstral 5.0 for Windows? If you want to try these voices, or just hear what they sound like for your device, you can visit to hear them live on line,, to download the voices. I'm not sure whether there's a local trial mode, but you can certainly use the online demos link (above) to hear what your own words would sound like spoken in the voices of your choices before you buy. > > Gordon > > > _______________________________________________ > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group since the 12th of April 2010, at: > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > From grtdane at internode.on.net Wed Mar 16 23:17:19 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 10:17:19 +1100 Subject: New MobileMe Control Panel In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks for the link as its much appreciated. Regarding the SSL option with Dropbox, are you saying that Dropbox are cdistributing miss-leading information? According to the Dropbox tutorials and manuals, SSL is used to transfer the data and its encripted once at the server. On 17/03/2011, at 4:59 AM, Gordon Smith wrote: > Hi all > > In case you haven't been notified and you are a MobileMe user, you need to upgrade any old services to the new version by 5 May 2011. This includes calendars and other new stuff which I'm not quite sure of off the top of my head. > > If you're a Windows user of MobileMe, here's a link to the control panel application which might be of help to you: > > > As an aside note, There's a misconception amongst certain people that all Dropbox transfers are SSL encrypted but, as the above link proves, that isn't the case at all. However this isn't a sensitive file so you're alright. > I'm about to try the control panel on our new netbook for accessibility actually. > > Gordon > > _______________________________________________ > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group since the 12th of April 2010, at: > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > From gordon at mac-access.net Thu Mar 17 00:17:10 2011 From: gordon at mac-access.net (Gordon Smith) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 00:17:10 +0000 Subject: Cepstral Voices In-Reply-To: References: <8CFDE460-343D-4279-BE3D-9F32A5E9BA39@mac-access.net> Message-ID: <373E7005-691B-4F43-929E-A1C4D9BDEF70@mac-access.net> Chris If having JFW meant the only way of getting the voices, I'd gladly do without. JFW is vastly over-priced and over-rated in my opinion. On 16 Mar 2011, at 22:45, Chris Moore wrote: See Gee, if you had got JAWS 12 you would have access to real speak voices for free :) Hope ya like em as you'll be stuck with them on the Mac from the Summer *sticks tongue out* From gordon at mac-access.net Thu Mar 17 00:18:53 2011 From: gordon at mac-access.net (Gordon Smith) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 00:18:53 +0000 Subject: New MobileMe Control Panel In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8F82CA5C-D6C0-4160-8F4A-4765FBC55FD1@mac-access.net> Look at that link Dane. It is a standard http link, not a secure https link. I'm not sure how it's stored on the server, I can't comments since I haven't seen it. But the transmission of that file was definitely not secured. On 16 Mar 2011, at 23:17, Dane Trethowan wrote: Thanks for the link as its much appreciated. Regarding the SSL option with Dropbox, are you saying that Dropbox are cdistributing miss-leading information? According to the Dropbox tutorials and manuals, SSL is used to transfer the data and its encripted once at the server. From grtdane at internode.on.net Thu Mar 17 00:35:04 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 11:35:04 +1100 Subject: Cepstral Voices In-Reply-To: <373E7005-691B-4F43-929E-A1C4D9BDEF70@mac-access.net> References: <8CFDE460-343D-4279-BE3D-9F32A5E9BA39@mac-access.net> <373E7005-691B-4F43-929E-A1C4D9BDEF70@mac-access.net> Message-ID: I'm in total agreement with that, I've looked at the new version 12, now please someone correct me if I'm wrong but Freedom Science Fiction has introduced new features that don't seem to address the core issue of accessibility, isn't that what a Screen Reader is all about? Allowing a blind person access to the operating system. On the other hand you have software such as NVDA who would appear to take the topic of accessibility to heart and are clearly interested in the development and accessibility of their product and its free! . On 17/03/2011, at 11:17 AM, Gordon Smith wrote: > Chris > > If having JFW meant the only way of getting the voices, I'd gladly do without. JFW is vastly over-priced and over-rated in my opinion. > > On 16 Mar 2011, at 22:45, Chris Moore wrote: > > See Gee, if you had got JAWS 12 you would have access to real speak voices for free :) Hope ya like em as you'll be stuck with them on the Mac from the Summer *sticks tongue out* > _______________________________________________ > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group since the 12th of April 2010, at: > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > From marrie12 at gmail.com Thu Mar 17 02:10:40 2011 From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah Alawami) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 19:10:40 -0700 Subject: New MobileMe Control Panel In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1F1D37A4-E7CE-431E-BA40-57969442A19D@gmail.com> that's what I read as well. It is incripted once it gets up to the server so only you and everyone who has that link can access that file. On Mar 16, 2011, at 4:17 PM, Dane Trethowan wrote: > Thanks for the link as its much appreciated. > > Regarding the SSL option with Dropbox, are you saying that Dropbox are cdistributing miss-leading information? According to the Dropbox tutorials and manuals, SSL is used to transfer the data and its encripted once at the server. > > > On 17/03/2011, at 4:59 AM, Gordon Smith wrote: > >> Hi all >> >> In case you haven't been notified and you are a MobileMe user, you need to upgrade any old services to the new version by 5 May 2011. This includes calendars and other new stuff which I'm not quite sure of off the top of my head. >> >> If you're a Windows user of MobileMe, here's a link to the control panel application which might be of help to you: >> >> >> As an aside note, There's a misconception amongst certain people that all Dropbox transfers are SSL encrypted but, as the above link proves, that isn't the case at all. However this isn't a sensitive file so you're alright. >> I'm about to try the control panel on our new netbook for accessibility actually. >> >> Gordon >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free >> >> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat >> >> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group since the 12th of April 2010, at: >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html >> > > _______________________________________________ > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group since the 12th of April 2010, at: > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > From gordon at mac-access.net Thu Mar 17 04:25:07 2011 From: gordon at mac-access.net (Gordon Smith) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 04:25:07 +0000 Subject: New MobileMe Control Panel In-Reply-To: <1F1D37A4-E7CE-431E-BA40-57969442A19D@gmail.com> References: <1F1D37A4-E7CE-431E-BA40-57969442A19D@gmail.com> Message-ID: <530450DA-04C1-4F1C-BE87-6B43132B68A5@mac-access.net> Hi Sarah yes, I don't dispute that but the transmission URL is in the clear. On 17 Mar 2011, at 02:10, Sarah Alawami wrote: that's what I read as well. It is incripted once it gets up to the server so only you and everyone who has that link can access that file. From moore.c at blueyonder.co.uk Thu Mar 17 07:59:02 2011 From: moore.c at blueyonder.co.uk (Chris Moore) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 07:59:02 +0000 Subject: Cepstral Voices In-Reply-To: <373E7005-691B-4F43-929E-A1C4D9BDEF70@mac-access.net> References: <8CFDE460-343D-4279-BE3D-9F32A5E9BA39@mac-access.net> <373E7005-691B-4F43-929E-A1C4D9BDEF70@mac-access.net> Message-ID: <1B030ADA-94F1-463E-8856-48C859D6C91A@blueyonder.co.uk> Not that much more expensive then GW Micro's Window Eyes, download the demo for JAWS 12 and take it for a spin. It might have improved since your last experience of it in 2004. Just remember none of these companies are your friend (even Apple is not your friend), so you should just use the products that get the job done no matter what platform it is on, who makes it or the politics behind it. I just don't have time for any of that, I just want productivity without the fuss. On 17 Mar 2011, at 00:17, Gordon Smith wrote: > Chris > > If having JFW meant the only way of getting the voices, I'd gladly do without. JFW is vastly over-priced and over-rated in my opinion. > > On 16 Mar 2011, at 22:45, Chris Moore wrote: > > See Gee, if you had got JAWS 12 you would have access to real speak voices for free :) Hope ya like em as you'll be stuck with them on the Mac from the Summer *sticks tongue out* > _______________________________________________ > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group since the 12th of April 2010, at: > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > From grtdane at internode.on.net Thu Mar 17 08:24:35 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 19:24:35 +1100 Subject: Cepstral Voices In-Reply-To: <1B030ADA-94F1-463E-8856-48C859D6C91A@blueyonder.co.uk> References: <8CFDE460-343D-4279-BE3D-9F32A5E9BA39@mac-access.net> <373E7005-691B-4F43-929E-A1C4D9BDEF70@mac-access.net> <1B030ADA-94F1-463E-8856-48C859D6C91A@blueyonder.co.uk> Message-ID: <4BF37940-39A1-4B6D-B646-AF94DF84B2D9@internode.on.net> Well I can't speak for Gordon but even GW Micro's product is far too expensive in my humble opinion and it really doesn't matter what type of spin people put on both JAWS and Window-Eys because that doesn't hide the fact that the blind are being ripped off. we've had this discussion many times and we'll continue to have it I'm sure. I don't begrudge any company or developer from making a living but the sort of pricing demanded by GW Micro and Freedom Scientology for their products can't be justified. I checked the price of Window-Eys the other day as I'm thinking of an upgrade, new in Australia its $800.00. Now to be honest I thought it would be nearer the $1,000.00 mark but even so how can GW Micro justify that when one of their competitors sells a product for half that amount? Not only that but support is better, none of these stupid SMA things and even better than that, when you purchase System Access To Go you get a lifetime of upgrades, in other words you pay $400.00 or thereabouts and that's the end, you've invested in a product for the lifetime of your computing and that's quite frankly in my view exactly how it should be. Now JAWS here? Last time I checked was $1,700 so just over twice the price of Window-Eyes so that doubling in price alone is enough to turn me off not to mention again the costly business of upgrading. And then at the other end of the scale? Well we have NVDA, available for absolutely nothing, doesn't cost you a bean and yet its giving the people at GW Micro and Freedom Scientology a few well deserved sleepless nights no doubt. I looked at JAWS 12 and its the same old thing, the speech manager, the alias manager, the configuration manager, the keyboard manager, the halfwit manager etc. I looked at the feature list and the list of new features it seems to me don't really help anyone much in the world of accessibility, rather I'd put them in the category of gimmick, I suppose Freedom Scientology have to do something to justify the outrageous price charged for JAWS . Yes, I took it for a spin and we have all these keystrokes, spent half the night looking up the help system to find what I wanted to know but perhaps that's just me, one thing I'll say about Window-Eyes is that at least its intuitive and easy to learn, that goes for NVDA and VO on the Mac too.! Anyway rambled enough for now . On 17/03/2011, at 6:59 PM, Chris Moore wrote: > Not that much more expensive then GW Micro's Window Eyes, download the demo for JAWS 12 and take it for a spin. It might have improved since your last experience of it in 2004. Just remember none of these companies are your friend (even Apple is not your friend), so you should just use the products that get the job done no matter what platform it is on, who makes it or the politics behind it. I just don't have time for any of that, I just want productivity without the fuss. > On 17 Mar 2011, at 00:17, Gordon Smith wrote: > >> Chris >> >> If having JFW meant the only way of getting the voices, I'd gladly do without. JFW is vastly over-priced and over-rated in my opinion. >> >> On 16 Mar 2011, at 22:45, Chris Moore wrote: >> >> See Gee, if you had got JAWS 12 you would have access to real speak voices for free :) Hope ya like em as you'll be stuck with them on the Mac from the Summer *sticks tongue out* >> _______________________________________________ >> >> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free >> >> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat >> >> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group since the 12th of April 2010, at: >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html >> > > > _______________________________________________ > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group since the 12th of April 2010, at: > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > From gordon at mac-access.net Thu Mar 17 10:19:50 2011 From: gordon at mac-access.net (Gordon Smith) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 10:19:50 +0000 Subject: Cepstral Voices In-Reply-To: <1B030ADA-94F1-463E-8856-48C859D6C91A@blueyonder.co.uk> References: <8CFDE460-343D-4279-BE3D-9F32A5E9BA39@mac-access.net> <373E7005-691B-4F43-929E-A1C4D9BDEF70@mac-access.net> <1B030ADA-94F1-463E-8856-48C859D6C91A@blueyonder.co.uk> Message-ID: <142A264B-7AE2-4C16-8255-506076BB5698@mac-access.net> Hi Chris On 17 Mar 2011, at 07:59, Chris Moore wrote: Not that much more expensive then GW Micro's Window Eyes, No, I can't agree with you there. About ?900 for JFW in Sterling the last time I enquired and only ?740 for Window-Eyes. Not that I'm defending GW either, even that price is inflated. download the demo for JAWS 12 and take it for a spin. It might have improved since your last experience of it in 2004. Just remember none of these companies are your friend (even Apple is not your friend), so you should just use the products that get the job done no matter what platform it is on, who makes it or the politics behind it. I just don't have time for any of that, I just want productivity without the fuss. No chance Chris. Not a hope. After the way I was treated by Freedom and bny Sight and Sound over here in the UK, I want nothing to do with it. As I said I'd rather do without. They sold me a serial number plus SMA. I noticed that I wasn't receiving updates, so I called Sight and Sound to see what was going on. Turned out that they had re-sold my serial number to somebody else and that somebody else was getting the SMA that I had paid for. They wouldn't refund the money or give me a replacement serial either. So no, sorry, but I want nothing to do with that bunch of crooks and I don't care how goods or otherwise their product is. From gordon at mac-access.net Thu Mar 17 10:49:37 2011 From: gordon at mac-access.net (Gordon Smith) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 10:49:37 +0000 Subject: Cepstral Voices In-Reply-To: <4BF37940-39A1-4B6D-B646-AF94DF84B2D9@internode.on.net> References: <8CFDE460-343D-4279-BE3D-9F32A5E9BA39@mac-access.net> <373E7005-691B-4F43-929E-A1C4D9BDEF70@mac-access.net> <1B030ADA-94F1-463E-8856-48C859D6C91A@blueyonder.co.uk> <4BF37940-39A1-4B6D-B646-AF94DF84B2D9@internode.on.net> Message-ID: Hi Dane let's just be clear about this. It isn't only the visually impaired who are being ripped off. It's disabled people generally. Over in other countries such as Australia, the benefits and assistance programmes for the disabled are much more generous than those in the UK. yes, we have our disability living allowance benefit. But it isn't a right, and you have to fight tooth and nail to get it. I'm currently being re-assessed, and the assessment has so far taken 5 months. But on the subject of accessibility equipment, yes; the age-old claim of "development costs" just doesn't wash with me I'm afraid. All of the 1 thousand Dollars, per individual license, all of the other licenses that GW and Freedom Scientific offer, there's only one winner in the end, and it isn't the customer. On 17 Mar 2011, at 08:24, Dane Trethowan wrote: Well I can't speak for Gordon but even GW Micro's product is far too expensive in my humble opinion and it really doesn't matter what type of spin people put on both JAWS and Window-Eys because that doesn't hide the fact that the blind are being ripped off. we've had this discussion many times and we'll continue to have it I'm sure. I don't begrudge any company or developer from making a living but the sort of pricing demanded by GW Micro and Freedom Scientology for their products can't be justified. I checked the price of Window-Eys the other day as I'm thinking of an upgrade, new in Australia its $800.00. Now to be honest I thought it would be nearer the $1,000.00 mark but even so how can GW Micro justify that when one of their competitors sells a product for half that amount? Not only that but support is better, none of these stupid SMA things and even better than that, when you purchase System Access To Go you get a lifetime of upgrades, in other words you pay $400.00 or thereabouts and that's the end, you've invested in a product for the lifetime of your computing and that's quite frankly in my view exactly how it should be. Now JAWS here? Last time I checked was $1,700 so just over twice the price of Window-Eyes so that doubling in price alone is enough to turn me off not to mention again the costly business of upgrading. And then at the other end of the scale? Well we have NVDA, available for absolutely nothing, doesn't cost you a bean and yet its giving the people at GW Micro and Freedom Scientology a few well deserved sleepless nights no doubt. I looked at JAWS 12 and its the same old thing, the speech manager, the alias manager, the configuration manager, the keyboard manager, the halfwit manager etc. I looked at the feature list and the list of new features it seems to me don't really help anyone much in the world of accessibility, rather I'd put them in the category of gimmick, I suppose Freedom Scientology have to do something to justify the outrageous price charged for JAWS . Yes, I took it for a spin and we have all these keystrokes, spent half the night looking up the help system to find what I wanted to know but perhaps that's just me, one thing I'll say about Window-Eyes is that at least its intuitive and easy to learn, that goes for NVDA and VO on the Mac too.! Anyway rambled enough for now . On 17/03/2011, at 6:59 PM, Chris Moore wrote: > Not that much more expensive then GW Micro's Window Eyes, download the demo for JAWS 12 and take it for a spin. It might have improved since your last experience of it in 2004. Just remember none of these companies are your friend (even Apple is not your friend), so you should just use the products that get the job done no matter what platform it is on, who makes it or the politics behind it. I just don't have time for any of that, I just want productivity without the fuss. > On 17 Mar 2011, at 00:17, Gordon Smith wrote: > >> Chris >> >> If having JFW meant the only way of getting the voices, I'd gladly do without. JFW is vastly over-priced and over-rated in my opinion. >> >> On 16 Mar 2011, at 22:45, Chris Moore wrote: >> >> See Gee, if you had got JAWS 12 you would have access to real speak voices for free :) Hope ya like em as you'll be stuck with them on the Mac from the Summer *sticks tongue out* >> _______________________________________________ >> >> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free >> >> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat >> >> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group since the 12th of April 2010, at: >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html >> > > > _______________________________________________ > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group since the 12th of April 2010, at: > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > _______________________________________________ The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group since the 12th of April 2010, at: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html From martin at x.it.okstate.edu Thu Mar 17 15:19:18 2011 From: martin at x.it.okstate.edu (Martin McCormick) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 10:19:18 -0500 Subject: Cepstral Voices Message-ID: <201103171519.p2HFJIRE067085@x.it.okstate.edu> The real problem with the cost of assistive technology is the economy of scale factor. That is why the Buy it extra and Duct ape it on afterward philosophy is fundamentally wrong. There are thousands of combined man-hours of time writing and debugging the code and then even more man-hours of field-testing. When you buy a Mac, the extra cost of VoiceOver is passed on to everybody and probably adds a couple of Dollars to the cost of the OS but it is essentially nothing in the over all scheme of things. Even if there are no predatory practices used by the companies that sell screen readers for Windows, everybody looses. It's too expensive for many individuals. Systems equipped with JAWS or Window-Eyes are never in your neighborhood kiosk on a machine that lets you order something so you have to go find somebody to help you and take them away from whatever task they normally do. The access companies are probably not getting rich. We don't really have a system that is eubicquitous and available, and everybody's just a little angry or, in cases where things go really wrong, a lot angry. How, on Earth is this a good thing? Gordon Smith writes: > Hi Dane > > let's just be clear about this. It isn't only the visually impaired who > are being ripped off. It's disabled people generally. Over in other > countries such as Australia, the benefits and assistance programmes for > the disabled are much more generous than those in the UK. > > yes, we have our disability living allowance benefit. But it isn't a > right, and you have to fight tooth and nail to get it. I'm currently > being re-assessed, and the assessment has so far taken 5 months. > > But on the subject of accessibility equipment, yes; the age-old claim of > "development costs" just doesn't wash with me I'm afraid. All of the 1 > thousand Dollars, per individual license, all of the other licenses that > GW and Freedom Scientific offer, there's only one winner in the end, and > it isn't the customer. > > > On 17 Mar 2011, at 08:24, Dane Trethowan wrote: > > Well I can't speak for Gordon but even GW Micro's product is far too > expensive in my humble opinion and it really doesn't matter what type of > spin people put on both JAWS and Window-Eys because that doesn't hide the > fact that the blind are being ripped off. > > we've had this discussion many times and we'll continue to have > it I'm sure. > > I don't begrudge any company or developer from making a living but the > sort of pricing demanded by GW Micro and Freedom Scientology for their > products can't be justified. I checked the price of Window-Eys the other > day as I'm thinking of an upgrade, new in Australia its $800.00. > > Now to be honest I thought it would be nearer the $1,000.00 mark but even > so how can GW Micro justify that when one of their competitors sells a > product for half that amount? Not only that but support is better, none > of these stupid SMA things and even better than that, when you purchase > System Access To Go you get a lifetime of upgrades, in other words you > pay $400.00 or thereabouts and that's the end, you've invested in a > product for the lifetime of your computing and that's quite frankly in my > view exactly how it should be. > > Now JAWS here? Last time I checked was $1,700 so just over twice the > price of Window-Eyes so that doubling in price alone is enough to turn me > off not to mention again the costly business of upgrading. > > And then at the other end of the scale? Well we have NVDA, available for > absolutely nothing, doesn't cost you a bean and yet its giving the people > at GW Micro and Freedom Scientology a few well deserved sleepless nights > no doubt. > > I looked at JAWS 12 and its the same old thing, the speech manager, the > alias manager, the configuration manager, the keyboard manager, the > halfwit manager etc. > > I looked at the feature list and the list of new features it seems to me > don't really help anyone much in the world of accessibility, rather I'd > put them in the category of gimmick, I suppose Freedom Scientology have > to do something to justify the outrageous price charged for JAWS . > > Yes, I took it for a spin and we have all these keystrokes, spent half > the night looking up the help system to find what I wanted to know but > perhaps that's just me, one thing I'll say about Window-Eyes is that at > least its intuitive and easy to learn, that goes for NVDA and VO on the > Mac too.! > > Anyway rambled enough for now . > > > On 17/03/2011, at 6:59 PM, Chris Moore wrote: > > > Not that much more expensive then GW Micro's Window Eyes, download the > demo for JAWS 12 and take it for a spin. It might have improved since > your last experience of it in 2004. Just remember none of these > companies are your friend (even Apple is not your friend), so you should > just use the products that get the job done no matter what platform it is > on, who makes it or the politics behind it. I just don't have time for > any of that, I just want productivity without the fuss. > > On 17 Mar 2011, at 00:17, Gordon Smith wrote: > > > >> Chris > >> > >> If having JFW meant the only way of getting the voices, I'd gladly do > without. JFW is vastly over-priced and over-rated in my opinion. > >> > >> On 16 Mar 2011, at 22:45, Chris Moore wrote: > >> > >> See Gee, if you had got JAWS 12 you would have access to real speak > voices for free :) Hope ya like em as you'll be stuck with them on the > Mac from the Summer *sticks tongue out* > >> _______________________________________________ > >> > >> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, > virus and worm-free > >> > >> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's > dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > >> > >> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat > group since the 12th of April 2010, at: > >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, > virus and worm-free > > > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated > web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group > since the 12th of April 2010, at: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > > > _______________________________________________ > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, > virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated > web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group > since the 12th of April 2010, at: > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > > _______________________________________________ > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, > virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated > web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group > since the 12th of April 2010, at: > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > From gordon at mac-access.net Thu Mar 17 15:35:16 2011 From: gordon at mac-access.net (Gordon Smith) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 15:35:16 +0000 Subject: Cepstral Voices In-Reply-To: <201103171519.p2HFJIRE067085@x.it.okstate.edu> References: <201103171519.p2HFJIRE067085@x.it.okstate.edu> Message-ID: <91013526-A36D-46A9-87B8-E1BF535EB1C5@mac-access.net> Hi Martin This is interesting; but I'm afraid I don't have time for an intellectual or philosophical discussion just now. I'm snowed under with work and just needed to know if those voices work. I'll troy to take this up with you another time. Gordon On 17 Mar 2011, at 15:19, Martin McCormick wrote: The real problem with the cost of assistive technology is the economy of scale factor. That is why the Buy it extra and Duct ape it on afterward philosophy is fundamentally wrong. There are thousands of combined man-hours of time writing and debugging the code and then even more man-hours of field-testing. When you buy a Mac, the extra cost of VoiceOver is passed on to everybody and probably adds a couple of Dollars to the cost of the OS but it is essentially nothing in the over all scheme of things. Even if there are no predatory practices used by the companies that sell screen readers for Windows, everybody looses. It's too expensive for many individuals. Systems equipped with JAWS or Window-Eyes are never in your neighborhood kiosk on a machine that lets you order something so you have to go find somebody to help you and take them away from whatever task they normally do. The access companies are probably not getting rich. We don't really have a system that is eubicquitous and available, and everybody's just a little angry or, in cases where things go really wrong, a lot angry. How, on Earth is this a good thing? Gordon Smith writes: > Hi Dane > > let's just be clear about this. It isn't only the visually impaired who > are being ripped off. It's disabled people generally. Over in other > countries such as Australia, the benefits and assistance programmes for > the disabled are much more generous than those in the UK. > > yes, we have our disability living allowance benefit. But it isn't a > right, and you have to fight tooth and nail to get it. I'm currently > being re-assessed, and the assessment has so far taken 5 months. > > But on the subject of accessibility equipment, yes; the age-old claim of > "development costs" just doesn't wash with me I'm afraid. All of the 1 > thousand Dollars, per individual license, all of the other licenses that > GW and Freedom Scientific offer, there's only one winner in the end, and > it isn't the customer. > > > On 17 Mar 2011, at 08:24, Dane Trethowan wrote: > > Well I can't speak for Gordon but even GW Micro's product is far too > expensive in my humble opinion and it really doesn't matter what type of > spin people put on both JAWS and Window-Eys because that doesn't hide the > fact that the blind are being ripped off. > > we've had this discussion many times and we'll continue to have > it I'm sure. > > I don't begrudge any company or developer from making a living but the > sort of pricing demanded by GW Micro and Freedom Scientology for their > products can't be justified. I checked the price of Window-Eys the other > day as I'm thinking of an upgrade, new in Australia its $800.00. > > Now to be honest I thought it would be nearer the $1,000.00 mark but even > so how can GW Micro justify that when one of their competitors sells a > product for half that amount? Not only that but support is better, none > of these stupid SMA things and even better than that, when you purchase > System Access To Go you get a lifetime of upgrades, in other words you > pay $400.00 or thereabouts and that's the end, you've invested in a > product for the lifetime of your computing and that's quite frankly in my > view exactly how it should be. > > Now JAWS here? Last time I checked was $1,700 so just over twice the > price of Window-Eyes so that doubling in price alone is enough to turn me > off not to mention again the costly business of upgrading. > > And then at the other end of the scale? Well we have NVDA, available for > absolutely nothing, doesn't cost you a bean and yet its giving the people > at GW Micro and Freedom Scientology a few well deserved sleepless nights > no doubt. > > I looked at JAWS 12 and its the same old thing, the speech manager, the > alias manager, the configuration manager, the keyboard manager, the > halfwit manager etc. > > I looked at the feature list and the list of new features it seems to me > don't really help anyone much in the world of accessibility, rather I'd > put them in the category of gimmick, I suppose Freedom Scientology have > to do something to justify the outrageous price charged for JAWS . > > Yes, I took it for a spin and we have all these keystrokes, spent half > the night looking up the help system to find what I wanted to know but > perhaps that's just me, one thing I'll say about Window-Eyes is that at > least its intuitive and easy to learn, that goes for NVDA and VO on the > Mac too.! > > Anyway rambled enough for now . > > > On 17/03/2011, at 6:59 PM, Chris Moore wrote: > >> Not that much more expensive then GW Micro's Window Eyes, download the > demo for JAWS 12 and take it for a spin. It might have improved since > your last experience of it in 2004. Just remember none of these > companies are your friend (even Apple is not your friend), so you should > just use the products that get the job done no matter what platform it is > on, who makes it or the politics behind it. I just don't have time for > any of that, I just want productivity without the fuss. >> On 17 Mar 2011, at 00:17, Gordon Smith wrote: >> >>> Chris >>> >>> If having JFW meant the only way of getting the voices, I'd gladly do > without. JFW is vastly over-priced and over-rated in my opinion. >>> >>> On 16 Mar 2011, at 22:45, Chris Moore wrote: >>> >>> See Gee, if you had got JAWS 12 you would have access to real speak > voices for free :) Hope ya like em as you'll be stuck with them on the > Mac from the Summer *sticks tongue out* >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, > virus and worm-free >>> >>> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's > dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat >>> >>> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat > group since the 12th of April 2010, at: >>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, > virus and worm-free >> >> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated > web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat >> >> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group > since the 12th of April 2010, at: >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html >> > > _______________________________________________ > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, > virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated > web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group > since the 12th of April 2010, at: > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > > _______________________________________________ > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, > virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated > web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group > since the 12th of April 2010, at: > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > _______________________________________________ The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group since the 12th of April 2010, at: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html From tsiegel at softcon.com Thu Mar 17 15:37:20 2011 From: tsiegel at softcon.com (Travis Siegel) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 10:37:20 -0500 Subject: Cepstral Voices In-Reply-To: References: <8CFDE460-343D-4279-BE3D-9F32A5E9BA39@mac-access.net> <373E7005-691B-4F43-929E-A1C4D9BDEF70@mac-access.net> Message-ID: <7D53C684-A7B9-425E-925E-A07E8332B870@softcon.com> The absolute worst thing about jaws is that twice a year, it gets updated whether it needs it or not, and once it gets updated, all the previous versions get abandon, even if there are still bugs that need fixing, licensed holders of those previous releases are out of luck, since fs never goes back and fixes bugs regardless of how bad those may be. Once the new one is out, it's like the previous releases never existed. Several potentially excellent versions of jaws were ruined by this approach. I.E. 4.5 was almost as stable and full featured a screen reader as you could want. There are just a few (relatively) small issues that prevent it from being used for anything and everything you'd want to do. But, ver 5.0 came out, and poof, those few remaining bugs were never fixed, and still remain. This is precisely why I've never upgraded up past version 5. I have no desire to support such nonsense. Of course, I've had issues with we too, but that's another story, and one that is more related to customer service than actual technical problems. From moore.c at blueyonder.co.uk Thu Mar 17 15:51:53 2011 From: moore.c at blueyonder.co.uk (Chris Moore) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 15:51:53 +0000 Subject: Cepstral Voices In-Reply-To: <201103171519.p2HFJIRE067085@x.it.okstate.edu> References: <201103171519.p2HFJIRE067085@x.it.okstate.edu> Message-ID: That cobra screen reader from germany seems pretty good, but still very pricey. Gordon, you should be getting higher DLA from April the 11th, well until they decide to replace it in 2013. I am campaigning with the RNIB to try and ensure we are not excluded from the proposed replacement. On 17 Mar 2011, at 15:19, Martin McCormick wrote: > The real problem with the cost of assistive technology is the > economy of scale factor. That is why the Buy it extra and > Duct ape it on afterward philosophy is fundamentally wrong. > > There are thousands of combined man-hours of time > writing and debugging the code and then even more man-hours of > field-testing. > > When you buy a Mac, the extra cost of VoiceOver is > passed on to everybody and probably adds a couple of Dollars to > the cost of the OS but it is essentially nothing in the over all > scheme of things. > > Even if there are no predatory practices used by the > companies that sell screen readers for Windows, everybody > looses. It's too expensive for many individuals. Systems > equipped with JAWS or Window-Eyes are never in your neighborhood > kiosk on a machine that lets you order something so you have to > go find somebody to help you and take them away from whatever > task they normally do. > > The access companies are probably not getting rich. We > don't really have a system that is eubicquitous and available, and > everybody's just a little angry or, in cases where things go > really wrong, a lot angry. How, on Earth is this a good thing? > > Gordon Smith writes: >> Hi Dane >> >> let's just be clear about this. It isn't only the visually impaired who >> are being ripped off. It's disabled people generally. Over in other >> countries such as Australia, the benefits and assistance programmes for >> the disabled are much more generous than those in the UK. >> >> yes, we have our disability living allowance benefit. But it isn't a >> right, and you have to fight tooth and nail to get it. I'm currently >> being re-assessed, and the assessment has so far taken 5 months. >> >> But on the subject of accessibility equipment, yes; the age-old claim of >> "development costs" just doesn't wash with me I'm afraid. All of the 1 >> thousand Dollars, per individual license, all of the other licenses that >> GW and Freedom Scientific offer, there's only one winner in the end, and >> it isn't the customer. >> >> >> On 17 Mar 2011, at 08:24, Dane Trethowan wrote: >> >> Well I can't speak for Gordon but even GW Micro's product is far too >> expensive in my humble opinion and it really doesn't matter what type of >> spin people put on both JAWS and Window-Eys because that doesn't hide the >> fact that the blind are being ripped off. >> >> we've had this discussion many times and we'll continue to have >> it I'm sure. >> >> I don't begrudge any company or developer from making a living but the >> sort of pricing demanded by GW Micro and Freedom Scientology for their >> products can't be justified. I checked the price of Window-Eys the other >> day as I'm thinking of an upgrade, new in Australia its $800.00. >> >> Now to be honest I thought it would be nearer the $1,000.00 mark but even >> so how can GW Micro justify that when one of their competitors sells a >> product for half that amount? Not only that but support is better, none >> of these stupid SMA things and even better than that, when you purchase >> System Access To Go you get a lifetime of upgrades, in other words you >> pay $400.00 or thereabouts and that's the end, you've invested in a >> product for the lifetime of your computing and that's quite frankly in my >> view exactly how it should be. >> >> Now JAWS here? Last time I checked was $1,700 so just over twice the >> price of Window-Eyes so that doubling in price alone is enough to turn me >> off not to mention again the costly business of upgrading. >> >> And then at the other end of the scale? Well we have NVDA, available for >> absolutely nothing, doesn't cost you a bean and yet its giving the people >> at GW Micro and Freedom Scientology a few well deserved sleepless nights >> no doubt. >> >> I looked at JAWS 12 and its the same old thing, the speech manager, the >> alias manager, the configuration manager, the keyboard manager, the >> halfwit manager etc. >> >> I looked at the feature list and the list of new features it seems to me >> don't really help anyone much in the world of accessibility, rather I'd >> put them in the category of gimmick, I suppose Freedom Scientology have >> to do something to justify the outrageous price charged for JAWS . >> >> Yes, I took it for a spin and we have all these keystrokes, spent half >> the night looking up the help system to find what I wanted to know but >> perhaps that's just me, one thing I'll say about Window-Eyes is that at >> least its intuitive and easy to learn, that goes for NVDA and VO on the >> Mac too.! >> >> Anyway rambled enough for now . >> >> >> On 17/03/2011, at 6:59 PM, Chris Moore wrote: >> >>> Not that much more expensive then GW Micro's Window Eyes, download the >> demo for JAWS 12 and take it for a spin. It might have improved since >> your last experience of it in 2004. Just remember none of these >> companies are your friend (even Apple is not your friend), so you should >> just use the products that get the job done no matter what platform it is >> on, who makes it or the politics behind it. I just don't have time for >> any of that, I just want productivity without the fuss. >>> On 17 Mar 2011, at 00:17, Gordon Smith wrote: >>> >>>> Chris >>>> >>>> If having JFW meant the only way of getting the voices, I'd gladly do >> without. JFW is vastly over-priced and over-rated in my opinion. >>>> >>>> On 16 Mar 2011, at 22:45, Chris Moore wrote: >>>> >>>> See Gee, if you had got JAWS 12 you would have access to real speak >> voices for free :) Hope ya like em as you'll be stuck with them on the >> Mac from the Summer *sticks tongue out* >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >>>> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, >> virus and worm-free >>>> >>>> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's >> dedicated web pages located at >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat >>>> >>>> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat >> group since the 12th of April 2010, at: >>>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, >> virus and worm-free >>> >>> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated >> web pages located at >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat >>> >>> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group >> since the 12th of April 2010, at: >>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, >> virus and worm-free >> >> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated >> web pages located at >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat >> >> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group >> since the 12th of April 2010, at: >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, >> virus and worm-free >> >> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated >> web pages located at >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat >> >> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group >> since the 12th of April 2010, at: >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html >> >> > _______________________________________________ > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group since the 12th of April 2010, at: > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > From martin at x.it.okstate.edu Thu Mar 17 16:25:52 2011 From: martin at x.it.okstate.edu (Martin McCormick) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 11:25:52 -0500 Subject: Cepstral Voices Message-ID: <201103171625.p2HGPq2e067412@x.it.okstate.edu> No problem. I was more or less killing time between crises. The university is closed for classes all this week as part of Spring Break. Spring Break, Christmas Break and a few days in early August are the only times we can do disruptive things to our network without bringing down the wrath of the gods. This means days of work until you could drop plus slow periods where nothing much happens. No happy medium. Gordon Smith writes: > This is interesting; but I'm afraid I don't have time for an intellectual > or philosophical discussion just now. I'm snowed under with work and > just needed to know if those voices work. I'll troy to take this up with > you another time. From gordon at mac-access.net Thu Mar 17 16:34:40 2011 From: gordon at mac-access.net (Gordon Smith) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 16:34:40 +0000 Subject: Cepstral Voices In-Reply-To: References: <201103171519.p2HFJIRE067085@x.it.okstate.edu> Message-ID: <62A4D660-937C-4C07-9D01-C94214B36BB8@mac-access.net> Hi Chris On 17 Mar 2011, at 15:51, Chris Moore wrote: ? That cobra screen reader from germany seems pretty good, but still very pricey. Gordon, you should be getting higher DLA from April the 11th, well until they decide to replace it in 2013. I am campaigning with the RNIB to try and ensure we are not excluded from the proposed replacement. I personally have absolutely no intention of buying any further screen-readers. But let me tell you something that's happened to me today. As you might know, GW Micro has just released an upgrade to their Window-Eyes. So, I went on to their website to order it. I got right to the end of the process, including entering card details, only to be told that Window-Eyes upgrade is not available for purchase outside of the United States. What the hell is this company playing at? My darn money is just as good, just as raid as any American person's money. They were happy to screw me for the price of the original purchase, and many other subsequent upgrades. So whey, all of a sudden, have they turned so insular? On 17 Mar 2011, at 15:19, Martin McCormick wrote: From moore.c at blueyonder.co.uk Thu Mar 17 17:54:03 2011 From: moore.c at blueyonder.co.uk (Chris Moore) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 17:54:03 +0000 Subject: Cepstral Voices In-Reply-To: <62A4D660-937C-4C07-9D01-C94214B36BB8@mac-access.net> References: <201103171519.p2HFJIRE067085@x.it.okstate.edu> <62A4D660-937C-4C07-9D01-C94214B36BB8@mac-access.net> Message-ID: Do you not have to go through a UK distributor in the same way you have to with Serotec System Access? Out of interest how much would the upgrade cost? You can use third party voices with NVDA you know if that serves your needs. On 17 Mar 2011, at 16:34, Gordon Smith wrote: > Hi Chris > > On 17 Mar 2011, at 15:51, Chris Moore wrote: > > ? That cobra screen reader from germany seems pretty good, but still very pricey. Gordon, you should be getting higher DLA from April the 11th, well until they decide to replace it in 2013. I am campaigning with the RNIB to try and ensure we are not excluded from the proposed replacement. > > I personally have absolutely no intention of buying any further screen-readers. But let me tell you something that's happened to me today. As you might know, GW Micro has just released an upgrade to their Window-Eyes. So, I went on to their website to order it. > > I got right to the end of the process, including entering card details, only to be told that Window-Eyes upgrade is not available for purchase outside of the United States. > > What the hell is this company playing at? My darn money is just as good, just as raid as any American person's money. They were happy to screw me for the price of the original purchase, and many other subsequent upgrades. So whey, all of a sudden, have they turned so insular? > > On 17 Mar 2011, at 15:19, Martin McCormick wrote: > > _______________________________________________ > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group since the 12th of April 2010, at: > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > From grtdane at internode.on.net Thu Mar 17 19:39:21 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 06:39:21 +1100 Subject: Cepstral Voices In-Reply-To: <201103171519.p2HFJIRE067085@x.it.okstate.edu> References: <201103171519.p2HFJIRE067085@x.it.okstate.edu> Message-ID: <2C7DDF2C-7994-4EC1-ABF9-CD2224DA9062@internode.on.net> I'll take your word for it mate . On 18/03/2011, at 2:19 AM, Martin McCormick wrote: > The real problem with the cost of assistive technology is the > economy of scale factor. That is why the Buy it extra and > Duct ape it on afterward philosophy is fundamentally wrong. > > There are thousands of combined man-hours of time > writing and debugging the code and then even more man-hours of > field-testing. > > When you buy a Mac, the extra cost of VoiceOver is > passed on to everybody and probably adds a couple of Dollars to > the cost of the OS but it is essentially nothing in the over all > scheme of things. > > Even if there are no predatory practices used by the > companies that sell screen readers for Windows, everybody > looses. It's too expensive for many individuals. Systems > equipped with JAWS or Window-Eyes are never in your neighborhood > kiosk on a machine that lets you order something so you have to > go find somebody to help you and take them away from whatever > task they normally do. > > The access companies are probably not getting rich. We > don't really have a system that is eubicquitous and available, and > everybody's just a little angry or, in cases where things go > really wrong, a lot angry. How, on Earth is this a good thing? > > Gordon Smith writes: >> Hi Dane >> >> let's just be clear about this. It isn't only the visually impaired who >> are being ripped off. It's disabled people generally. Over in other >> countries such as Australia, the benefits and assistance programmes for >> the disabled are much more generous than those in the UK. >> >> yes, we have our disability living allowance benefit. But it isn't a >> right, and you have to fight tooth and nail to get it. I'm currently >> being re-assessed, and the assessment has so far taken 5 months. >> >> But on the subject of accessibility equipment, yes; the age-old claim of >> "development costs" just doesn't wash with me I'm afraid. All of the 1 >> thousand Dollars, per individual license, all of the other licenses that >> GW and Freedom Scientific offer, there's only one winner in the end, and >> it isn't the customer. >> >> >> On 17 Mar 2011, at 08:24, Dane Trethowan wrote: >> >> Well I can't speak for Gordon but even GW Micro's product is far too >> expensive in my humble opinion and it really doesn't matter what type of >> spin people put on both JAWS and Window-Eys because that doesn't hide the >> fact that the blind are being ripped off. >> >> we've had this discussion many times and we'll continue to have >> it I'm sure. >> >> I don't begrudge any company or developer from making a living but the >> sort of pricing demanded by GW Micro and Freedom Scientology for their >> products can't be justified. I checked the price of Window-Eys the other >> day as I'm thinking of an upgrade, new in Australia its $800.00. >> >> Now to be honest I thought it would be nearer the $1,000.00 mark but even >> so how can GW Micro justify that when one of their competitors sells a >> product for half that amount? Not only that but support is better, none >> of these stupid SMA things and even better than that, when you purchase >> System Access To Go you get a lifetime of upgrades, in other words you >> pay $400.00 or thereabouts and that's the end, you've invested in a >> product for the lifetime of your computing and that's quite frankly in my >> view exactly how it should be. >> >> Now JAWS here? Last time I checked was $1,700 so just over twice the >> price of Window-Eyes so that doubling in price alone is enough to turn me >> off not to mention again the costly business of upgrading. >> >> And then at the other end of the scale? Well we have NVDA, available for >> absolutely nothing, doesn't cost you a bean and yet its giving the people >> at GW Micro and Freedom Scientology a few well deserved sleepless nights >> no doubt. >> >> I looked at JAWS 12 and its the same old thing, the speech manager, the >> alias manager, the configuration manager, the keyboard manager, the >> halfwit manager etc. >> >> I looked at the feature list and the list of new features it seems to me >> don't really help anyone much in the world of accessibility, rather I'd >> put them in the category of gimmick, I suppose Freedom Scientology have >> to do something to justify the outrageous price charged for JAWS . >> >> Yes, I took it for a spin and we have all these keystrokes, spent half >> the night looking up the help system to find what I wanted to know but >> perhaps that's just me, one thing I'll say about Window-Eyes is that at >> least its intuitive and easy to learn, that goes for NVDA and VO on the >> Mac too.! >> >> Anyway rambled enough for now . >> >> >> On 17/03/2011, at 6:59 PM, Chris Moore wrote: >> >>> Not that much more expensive then GW Micro's Window Eyes, download the >> demo for JAWS 12 and take it for a spin. It might have improved since >> your last experience of it in 2004. Just remember none of these >> companies are your friend (even Apple is not your friend), so you should >> just use the products that get the job done no matter what platform it is >> on, who makes it or the politics behind it. I just don't have time for >> any of that, I just want productivity without the fuss. >>> On 17 Mar 2011, at 00:17, Gordon Smith wrote: >>> >>>> Chris >>>> >>>> If having JFW meant the only way of getting the voices, I'd gladly do >> without. JFW is vastly over-priced and over-rated in my opinion. >>>> >>>> On 16 Mar 2011, at 22:45, Chris Moore wrote: >>>> >>>> See Gee, if you had got JAWS 12 you would have access to real speak >> voices for free :) Hope ya like em as you'll be stuck with them on the >> Mac from the Summer *sticks tongue out* >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >>>> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, >> virus and worm-free >>>> >>>> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's >> dedicated web pages located at >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat >>>> >>>> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat >> group since the 12th of April 2010, at: >>>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, >> virus and worm-free >>> >>> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated >> web pages located at >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat >>> >>> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group >> since the 12th of April 2010, at: >>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, >> virus and worm-free >> >> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated >> web pages located at >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat >> >> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group >> since the 12th of April 2010, at: >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, >> virus and worm-free >> >> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated >> web pages located at >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat >> >> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group >> since the 12th of April 2010, at: >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html >> >> > _______________________________________________ > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group since the 12th of April 2010, at: > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > From grtdane at internode.on.net Thu Mar 17 19:45:58 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 06:45:58 +1100 Subject: Screen Readers In-Reply-To: References: <201103171519.p2HFJIRE067085@x.it.okstate.edu> <62A4D660-937C-4C07-9D01-C94214B36BB8@mac-access.net> Message-ID: That's interesting, I didn't have to go through any dealer to buy System Access, I just entered my card information on the site but then I'm in Australia so I don't know whether that makes any difference. On 18/03/2011, at 4:54 AM, Chris Moore wrote: > Do you not have to go through a UK distributor in the same way you have to with Serotec System Access? Out of interest how much would the upgrade cost? You can use third party voices with NVDA you know if that serves your needs. > On 17 Mar 2011, at 16:34, Gordon Smith wrote: > >> Hi Chris >> >> On 17 Mar 2011, at 15:51, Chris Moore wrote: >> >> ? That cobra screen reader from germany seems pretty good, but still very pricey. Gordon, you should be getting higher DLA from April the 11th, well until they decide to replace it in 2013. I am campaigning with the RNIB to try and ensure we are not excluded from the proposed replacement. >> >> I personally have absolutely no intention of buying any further screen-readers. But let me tell you something that's happened to me today. As you might know, GW Micro has just released an upgrade to their Window-Eyes. So, I went on to their website to order it. >> >> I got right to the end of the process, including entering card details, only to be told that Window-Eyes upgrade is not available for purchase outside of the United States. >> >> What the hell is this company playing at? My darn money is just as good, just as raid as any American person's money. They were happy to screw me for the price of the original purchase, and many other subsequent upgrades. So whey, all of a sudden, have they turned so insular? >> >> On 17 Mar 2011, at 15:19, Martin McCormick wrote: >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free >> >> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat >> >> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group since the 12th of April 2010, at: >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html >> > > > _______________________________________________ > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group since the 12th of April 2010, at: > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > From marrie12 at gmail.com Thu Mar 17 21:09:12 2011 From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah Alawami) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 14:09:12 -0700 Subject: New MobileMe Control Panel In-Reply-To: <530450DA-04C1-4F1C-BE87-6B43132B68A5@mac-access.net> References: <1F1D37A4-E7CE-431E-BA40-57969442A19D@gmail.com> <530450DA-04C1-4F1C-BE87-6B43132B68A5@mac-access.net> Message-ID: but still it is incripted so I would not really worry about it. plus you can break that link. I did and sendspace support was not happy lol! oops on my part. but tha'ts another story On Mar 16, 2011, at 9:25 PM, Gordon Smith wrote: > Hi Sarah > > yes, I don't dispute that but the transmission URL is in the clear. > > On 17 Mar 2011, at 02:10, Sarah Alawami wrote: > > that's what I read as well. It is incripted once it gets up to the server so only you and everyone who has that link can access that file. > _______________________________________________ > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group since the 12th of April 2010, at: > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > From grtdane at internode.on.net Fri Mar 18 10:37:34 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 21:37:34 +1100 Subject: Festival Message-ID: <677111D0-2B75-45E3-8E05-67500CA08280@internode.on.net> Hi! Has anyone tried this freely available speech synthesiser? I looked up on the project page and went to the download link but couldn't find where to download it, the synthesiser is supposed to work with Apple OS10.6, Windows etc http://www.cstr.ed.ac.uk/projects/festival/ From martin at x.it.okstate.edu Fri Mar 18 13:57:05 2011 From: martin at x.it.okstate.edu (Martin McCormick) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 08:57:05 -0500 Subject: Festival Message-ID: <201103181357.p2IDv54d072752@x.it.okstate.edu> It's been around for several years. I installed it on linux and it worked well enough in text to speech mode. I didn't do much more than play with it a little as one needs to run it along with a screen reader engine that will call it when it needs to speak. I was interested in the Spanish version of it but there was some reason that I have since forgotten why it wasn't going to work for me. On Linux systems right now, I use Vinux with good luck but would like to be able to try reading Spanish messages. One could cat the message through a speech engine set for some other language and it should work correctly without effecting the normal speech engine we use to do regular work. I figure I could slow the Spanish down a bit and understand more of it. Of course, the goal is to get better so that we can understand it at the speed people normally speek it. Dane Trethowan writes: > Has anyone tried this freely available speech synthesiser? I looked up on > the project page and went to the download link but couldn't find where to > download it, the synthesiser is supposed to work with Apple OS10.6, > Windows etc From tsiegel at softcon.com Fri Mar 18 15:31:48 2011 From: tsiegel at softcon.com (Travis Siegel) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 10:31:48 -0500 Subject: nvda is potm (project of the month on sourceforge Message-ID: Sourceforge has named nvda project of the month for February. Here's the snippet that came in the monthly newsletter I receive from sourceforge. > NVDA is February's POTM > > Continuing our focus on apps that make the world a better place, we > are happy to announce that NonVisual Desktop Access (NVDA) is our > March POTM. NVDA is a free and open source screen reader for the > Microsoft Windows operating system. Providing feedback via > synthetic speech and Braille, it enables blind or vision impaired > people to access computers running Windows for no more cost than a > sighted person. They are doing great work there, and helping people > every day. Keep up the awesome job, guys. > Pretty cool. That means nvda will be shown to a *lot* of people, and may actually get more contributors. I'd contribute code myself, but most of my screen reader knowledge/code comes either from provox which I took over from Chuck Holenbeck, which is dos based, and doesn't do much for windows, or windowbridge, which I'm not allowed to distribute code from, due to the agreement with the previous owners, so I wn't be of much use here (I've tried to help a few years ago, and determined I couldn't contribute anything code wise) but perhaps now that my windows xp machine is behaving again, maybe I'll see what I can do on configurations or something. But anyway, thought folks would be interested in this information. :) Let's hear it for sourceforge. From mstores at indiana.edu Fri Mar 18 16:16:21 2011 From: mstores at indiana.edu (Mary Stores) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 12:16:21 -0400 Subject: nvda is potm (project of the month on sourceforge In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20110318121621.gnbr7vlq4gscgo44@webmail.iu.edu> Hi Travis, Thanks so much for sending this to us. I hope that NVDA can get more contributors. Do you know what their status is on funding? I heard they were running out... Mary Quoting Travis Siegel : > Sourceforge has named nvda project of the month for February. Here's > the snippet that came in the monthly newsletter I receive from > sourceforge. From moore.c at blueyonder.co.uk Fri Mar 18 17:23:31 2011 From: moore.c at blueyonder.co.uk (Chris Moore) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 17:23:31 +0000 Subject: Talking Books Message-ID: Hi gang, I have jus taken my first steps into the world of DAISY talking books. I got one of them subscriptions to the RNIB's talking book library service (paid for of course by my local authority). The CD player that came with the 6 CD books is very easy to use and the process to return your books and order replacements via the website is a doddle too (mind the website could do with a kick up the ass and brought into 2011). Anyway, I will get to the point, is it possible (guess I should ask the RNIB this really but they will be closed now) can you get the books on SD card instead? Or are you allowed to transfer the books from CD to card yourself? If so, how do you do it? The reason why I ask is because I would prefer a personal portable DAISY player as I think the CD player is a bit bulky to carry around in your pocket (especially with my keys, iPhone, wallet, burger king and can of coke in there etc). So I am considering investing in a portable one. I know you can get some DAISY apps for the iPhone but don't think you can get RNIB content on there yet. So I am after a portable player that is quite loud too as I am a bit hard of hearing too. Have heard the Victor Stream can be a bit on the quiet side. So anyone else got experience on other players? Thanks Chris *Off to listen to Peter Kay From tsiegel at softcon.com Sat Mar 19 02:43:34 2011 From: tsiegel at softcon.com (Travis Siegel) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 21:43:34 -0500 Subject: nvda is potm (project of the month on sourceforge In-Reply-To: <20110318121621.gnbr7vlq4gscgo44@webmail.iu.edu> References: <20110318121621.gnbr7vlq4gscgo44@webmail.iu.edu> Message-ID: On Mar 18, 2011, at 11:16 AM, Mary Stores wrote: > Hi Travis, > > Thanks so much for sending this to us. I hope that NVDA can get > more contributors. Do you know what their status is on funding? I > heard they were running out... I have no idea about the funding status for them. I wasn't aware it was an issue. Hopefully, being project of the month will help in that regard. From grtdane at internode.on.net Sat Mar 19 06:39:53 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 17:39:53 +1100 Subject: Talking Books In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8B2585F1-7793-4A8D-9808-F812813A8ED9@internode.on.net> I think the RNIB use the standard Plextalk CD Talking Book player, I started with that and for what it is I found it very good, does the job at any rate but I wanted something better so I got the Plextalk PTX1. The PTXA has the same sort of case but has quite a few differences, the buttons for one thing. Whereas the standard Plextalk CD player uses the volume, speed and tone controls as part of its number pad the PTX has a separate number pad completely thus more navigation functions etc. You'll also find a USB port and SD Card slot on the PTX1 along with an Ethernet port. The PTX1 has a software speech synthesiser built-in so you can read daisy texts from other sources such as downloaded from the Internet and placed onto your memory stick. You can transfer Daisy text and files to the PtX!'s internal memory or play directly from the media it is on whether that be CD, memory stick, SD card etc. I've actually used my PTX1 to encode CD'S into MP3 format, does that very nicely. We're supposed to have the automatic downloading of Daisy material from the library enabled on the PTX1 in the next update which will be nice, the PTX! is supposed to connect to a wi-fi network and it certainly does have bluetooth connectivity. On 19/03/2011, at 4:23 AM, Chris Moore wrote: > Hi gang, > > I have jus taken my first steps into the world of DAISY talking books. I got one of them subscriptions to the RNIB's talking book library service (paid for of course by my local authority). The CD player that came with the 6 CD books is very easy to use and the process to return your books and order replacements via the website is a doddle too (mind the website could do with a kick up the ass and brought into 2011). Anyway, I will get to the point, is it possible (guess I should ask the RNIB this really but they will be closed now) can you get the books on SD card instead? Or are you allowed to transfer the books from CD to card yourself? If so, how do you do it? > > The reason why I ask is because I would prefer a personal portable DAISY player as I think the CD player is a bit bulky to carry around in your pocket (especially with my keys, iPhone, wallet, burger king and can of coke in there etc). So I am considering investing in a portable one. I know you can get some DAISY apps for the iPhone but don't think you can get RNIB content on there yet. So I am after a portable player that is quite loud too as I am a bit hard of hearing too. Have heard the Victor Stream can be a bit on the quiet side. So anyone else got experience on other players? > > Thanks > > Chris > *Off to listen to Peter Kay > > > > _______________________________________________ > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group since the 12th of April 2010, at: > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > From gordon at mac-access.net Sat Mar 19 09:23:21 2011 From: gordon at mac-access.net (Gordon Smith) Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 09:23:21 +0000 Subject: Downloading Windows apps via another OS Message-ID: <4E072791-DF5C-427A-B73C-536FDD8A4F9E@mac-access.net> Hi all This is interesting, I guess they auto-detect your operating system. But if you go to www.mozilla.com and try to download all the apps, they are are for your current OS. How, for instance, do you download Thunderbird from the Mac, I want it for Windows. I'm not prepared to risk Windows Live. Gordon From moore.c at blueyonder.co.uk Sat Mar 19 09:30:12 2011 From: moore.c at blueyonder.co.uk (Chris Moore) Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 09:30:12 +0000 Subject: Downloading Windows apps via another OS In-Reply-To: <4E072791-DF5C-427A-B73C-536FDD8A4F9E@mac-access.net> References: <4E072791-DF5C-427A-B73C-536FDD8A4F9E@mac-access.net> Message-ID: Gordon, Usually if you go to download.com or versiontracker.com you can change from the pull down menu to Windows. Have you got developer menu enabled in Safari? If so, then go to the developer menu and select user agent and then select Internet Explorer 8 and see if that fools the website into thinking you are running Windows. Chris On 19 Mar 2011, at 09:23, Gordon Smith wrote: > Hi all > > This is interesting, I guess they auto-detect your operating system. But if you go to www.mozilla.com and try to download all the apps, they are are for your current OS. How, for instance, do you download Thunderbird from the Mac, I want it for Windows. I'm not prepared to risk Windows Live. > > Gordon > > _______________________________________________ > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group since the 12th of April 2010, at: > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > From moore.c at blueyonder.co.uk Sat Mar 19 09:37:32 2011 From: moore.c at blueyonder.co.uk (Chris Moore) Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 09:37:32 +0000 Subject: Talking Books In-Reply-To: <8B2585F1-7793-4A8D-9808-F812813A8ED9@internode.on.net> References: <8B2585F1-7793-4A8D-9808-F812813A8ED9@internode.on.net> Message-ID: <60C214AD-9872-4B42-AF1D-6CD614BC3EB8@blueyonder.co.uk> Cheers Dane, what is the volume like on the unit? I was listening to a demo of it and a comparison with the Bookport Plus which is the same but more beefed up. However I have not found anywhere in the UK that sells it yet. Yup the Plextalk CD DAISY reader is what I have and its a fine little machine, just not portable enough. After reading the RNIB site it appears they ran a trial last year using the memory cards and Plextalk PTX but have not said if and when they will offer a library service using that system Guess I will have to wait. Chris On 19 Mar 2011, at 06:39, Dane Trethowan wrote: > I think the RNIB use the standard Plextalk CD Talking Book player, I started with that and for what it is I found it very good, does the job at any rate but I wanted something better so I got the Plextalk PTX1. > > The PTXA has the same sort of case but has quite a few differences, the buttons for one thing. > > Whereas the standard Plextalk CD player uses the volume, speed and tone controls as part of its number pad the PTX has a separate number pad completely thus more navigation functions etc. > > You'll also find a USB port and SD Card slot on the PTX1 along with an Ethernet port. > > The PTX1 has a software speech synthesiser built-in so you can read daisy texts from other sources such as downloaded from the Internet and placed onto your memory stick. > > You can transfer Daisy text and files to the PtX!'s internal memory or play directly from the media it is on whether that be CD, memory stick, SD card etc. I've actually used my PTX1 to encode CD'S into MP3 format, does that very nicely. > > We're supposed to have the automatic downloading of Daisy material from the library enabled on the PTX1 in the next update which will be nice, the PTX! is supposed to connect to a wi-fi network and it certainly does have bluetooth connectivity. > > > On 19/03/2011, at 4:23 AM, Chris Moore wrote: > >> Hi gang, >> >> I have jus taken my first steps into the world of DAISY talking books. I got one of them subscriptions to the RNIB's talking book library service (paid for of course by my local authority). The CD player that came with the 6 CD books is very easy to use and the process to return your books and order replacements via the website is a doddle too (mind the website could do with a kick up the ass and brought into 2011). Anyway, I will get to the point, is it possible (guess I should ask the RNIB this really but they will be closed now) can you get the books on SD card instead? Or are you allowed to transfer the books from CD to card yourself? If so, how do you do it? >> >> The reason why I ask is because I would prefer a personal portable DAISY player as I think the CD player is a bit bulky to carry around in your pocket (especially with my keys, iPhone, wallet, burger king and can of coke in there etc). So I am considering investing in a portable one. I know you can get some DAISY apps for the iPhone but don't think you can get RNIB content on there yet. So I am after a portable player that is quite loud too as I am a bit hard of hearing too. Have heard the Victor Stream can be a bit on the quiet side. So anyone else got experience on other players? >> >> Thanks >> >> Chris >> *Off to listen to Peter Kay >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free >> >> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat >> >> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group since the 12th of April 2010, at: >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html >> > > _______________________________________________ > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group since the 12th of April 2010, at: > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > From grtdane at internode.on.net Sat Mar 19 10:08:16 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 21:08:16 +1100 Subject: Downloading Windows apps via another OS In-Reply-To: <4E072791-DF5C-427A-B73C-536FDD8A4F9E@mac-access.net> References: <4E072791-DF5C-427A-B73C-536FDD8A4F9E@mac-access.net> Message-ID: <97E13B2D-E429-48E8-AEB7-2A752C1A0451@internode.on.net> I suppose the simple way of doing that is having someone share it through dropbox or a server . On 19/03/2011, at 8:23 PM, Gordon Smith wrote: > Hi all > > This is interesting, I guess they auto-detect your operating system. But if you go to www.mozilla.com and try to download all the apps, they are are for your current OS. How, for instance, do you download Thunderbird from the Mac, I want it for Windows. I'm not prepared to risk Windows Live. > > Gordon > > _______________________________________________ > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group since the 12th of April 2010, at: > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > From lynne at mac-access.net Sat Mar 19 13:08:04 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 13:08:04 +0000 Subject: Email configurations Message-ID: <02EF12E8-203E-43DC-9BE3-AF40184EB386@mac-access.net> Hello everybody I just wanted to remind everybody of the advantages of using IMAP over POP3. Gordon and I have 3 different operating systems that we need to use. Because we use IMAP in each of them, what we see in 1 OS is what we see in the other. It's marvellous how easy it is to synchronise. Whoever first designed this protocol really did put some thought into doing it. Lynne From grtdane at internode.on.net Sat Mar 19 13:10:27 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2011 00:10:27 +1100 Subject: Email configurations In-Reply-To: <02EF12E8-203E-43DC-9BE3-AF40184EB386@mac-access.net> References: <02EF12E8-203E-43DC-9BE3-AF40184EB386@mac-access.net> Message-ID: <26CDC38F-B822-4904-9E94-E0CAD85AD318@internode.on.net> Ah yes, wouldn't be without Imap now, I have at least.. what.. half a dozen devices here which can send/receive email so its a great thing to know that what you're reading on one device is what's showing on another and when you delete messages from your in-box on one device you see the changes on another. On 20/03/2011, at 12:08 AM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: > Hello everybody > > I just wanted to remind everybody of the advantages of using IMAP over POP3. Gordon and I have 3 different operating systems that we need to use. Because we use IMAP in each of them, what we see in 1 OS is what we see in the other. It's marvellous how easy it is to synchronise. Whoever first designed this protocol really did put some thought into doing it. > > Lynne > > _______________________________________________ > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group since the 12th of April 2010, at: > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > From lynne at mac-access.net Sat Mar 19 23:10:45 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 23:10:45 +0000 Subject: Reading/writing HFS disks from Windows Message-ID: <3FCC6605-BD00-40D6-8AA9-583E788AD915@mac-access.net> Hello everybody At last, at long last, Transmac is the perfect utility for Windows which allows you to re, write and create HFS and HFS+ disks on your Windows system. It will also create HFS CD/DVD/Blue Ray volumes. it handles journaled and case sensitive indexed HFS+ volumes. I know, there are some who objet in principal to software which isn't free. :) That's their right, of course. But this programme really is worth the price, in my opinion if you have need of cross-platform and truly seamless interactivity between the two. Oh yes, the URL: is where you can find it. Lynne From grtdane at internode.on.net Sat Mar 19 23:22:38 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2011 10:22:38 +1100 Subject: Now is the perfect time to purchase Rollback RX for my Netbook Message-ID: <388B1467-A4EF-4381-9DE5-5644BF7052DF@internode.on.net> Subject line says it all, if you own one or more licences for Rollback RX then you can buy an additional licence until 24 March for $35.00 U.S., that's half price and an absolute bargain. From grtdane at internode.on.net Sat Mar 19 23:50:35 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2011 10:50:35 +1100 Subject: Kindle Book Reader, blind people using them Message-ID: <712BA43B-14FC-4977-AC1E-436F7F4C5B48@internode.on.net> Hi! Listening to a most interesting podcast from http://www.blkindcooltech.com which describes the accessibility features of the Kindle Book Reader as available from http://www.amazon.co.uk Seems some of the machine is accessible whilst some isn't but at least you can "Read" books and that's what the machine was designed for. From marrie12 at gmail.com Sun Mar 20 03:22:25 2011 From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah Alawami) Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 20:22:25 -0700 Subject: How Much Would You Pay for NY Times? announces new subscription plans, Message-ID: Full access subscription will cost $420 a year. http://cnet.co/ebsqgX From lynne at mac-access.net Sun Mar 20 03:51:13 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2011 03:51:13 +0000 Subject: Festival In-Reply-To: <677111D0-2B75-45E3-8E05-67500CA08280@internode.on.net> References: <677111D0-2B75-45E3-8E05-67500CA08280@internode.on.net> Message-ID: Hello Dane I gather Festival is dreadful. Lynne On 18 Mar 2011, at 10:37, Dane Trethowan wrote: Hi! Has anyone tried this freely available speech synthesiser? I looked up on the project page and went to the download link but couldn't find where to download it, the synthesiser is supposed to work with Apple OS10.6, Windows etc From lynne at mac-access.net Sun Mar 20 03:53:43 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2011 03:53:43 +0000 Subject: Talking Books In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Chris If you listen to the book headers, they all say: "No unauthorised broadcasting, public performances or copying is permitted.". The answer to your question is no. Lynne On 18 Mar 2011, at 17:23, Chris Moore wrote: Hi gang, I have jus taken my first steps into the world of DAISY talking books. I got one of them subscriptions to the RNIB's talking book library service (paid for of course by my local authority). The CD player that came with the 6 CD books is very easy to use and the process to return your books and order replacements via the website is a doddle too (mind the website could do with a kick up the ass and brought into 2011). Anyway, I will get to the point, is it possible (guess I should ask the RNIB this really but they will be closed now) can you get the books on SD card instead? Or are you allowed to transfer the books from CD to card yourself? If so, how do you do it? The reason why I ask is because I would prefer a personal portable DAISY player as I think the CD player is a bit bulky to carry around in your pocket (especially with my keys, iPhone, wallet, burger king and can of coke in there etc). So I am considering investing in a portable one. I know you can get some DAISY apps for the iPhone but don't think you can get RNIB content on there yet. So I am after a portable player that is quite loud too as I am a bit hard of hearing too. Have heard the Victor Stream can be a bit on the quiet side. So anyone else got experience on other players? Thanks Chris *Off to listen to Peter Kay _______________________________________________ The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group since the 12th of April 2010, at: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html From lynne at mac-access.net Sun Mar 20 03:54:49 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2011 03:54:49 +0000 Subject: Talking Books In-Reply-To: <8B2585F1-7793-4A8D-9808-F812813A8ED9@internode.on.net> References: <8B2585F1-7793-4A8D-9808-F812813A8ED9@internode.on.net> Message-ID: <170F00E7-63CC-4A9D-B3C4-EECEB9BDB3CE@mac-access.net> The RNIB is now expanding its range to a couple of other manufacturers. On 19 Mar 2011, at 06:39, Dane Trethowan wrote: I think the RNIB use the standard Plextalk CD Talking Book player, I started with that and for what it is I found it very good, does the job at any rate but I wanted something better so I got the Plextalk PTX1. The PTXA has the same sort of case but has quite a few differences, the buttons for one thing. Whereas the standard Plextalk CD player uses the volume, speed and tone controls as part of its number pad the PTX has a separate number pad completely thus more navigation functions etc. You'll also find a USB port and SD Card slot on the PTX1 along with an Ethernet port. The PTX1 has a software speech synthesiser built-in so you can read daisy texts from other sources such as downloaded from the Internet and placed onto your memory stick. You can transfer Daisy text and files to the PtX!'s internal memory or play directly from the media it is on whether that be CD, memory stick, SD card etc. I've actually used my PTX1 to encode CD'S into MP3 format, does that very nicely. We're supposed to have the automatic downloading of Daisy material from the library enabled on the PTX1 in the next update which will be nice, the PTX! is supposed to connect to a wi-fi network and it certainly does have bluetooth connectivity. On 19/03/2011, at 4:23 AM, Chris Moore wrote: > Hi gang, > > I have jus taken my first steps into the world of DAISY talking books. I got one of them subscriptions to the RNIB's talking book library service (paid for of course by my local authority). The CD player that came with the 6 CD books is very easy to use and the process to return your books and order replacements via the website is a doddle too (mind the website could do with a kick up the ass and brought into 2011). Anyway, I will get to the point, is it possible (guess I should ask the RNIB this really but they will be closed now) can you get the books on SD card instead? Or are you allowed to transfer the books from CD to card yourself? If so, how do you do it? > > The reason why I ask is because I would prefer a personal portable DAISY player as I think the CD player is a bit bulky to carry around in your pocket (especially with my keys, iPhone, wallet, burger king and can of coke in there etc). So I am considering investing in a portable one. I know you can get some DAISY apps for the iPhone but don't think you can get RNIB content on there yet. So I am after a portable player that is quite loud too as I am a bit hard of hearing too. Have heard the Victor Stream can be a bit on the quiet side. So anyone else got experience on other players? > > Thanks > > Chris > *Off to listen to Peter Kay > > > > _______________________________________________ > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group since the 12th of April 2010, at: > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > _______________________________________________ The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group since the 12th of April 2010, at: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html From grtdane at internode.on.net Sun Mar 20 04:29:42 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2011 15:29:42 +1100 Subject: Festival In-Reply-To: References: <677111D0-2B75-45E3-8E05-67500CA08280@internode.on.net> Message-ID: <31DCB9C4-6963-4B9F-B562-A5E80C55259D@internode.on.net> It didn't sound too bad from the demo I heard though haven't been able to try it myself, a new version was released not all that long ago where many bugs and problems were addressed. On 20/03/2011, at 2:51 PM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: > Hello Dane > > I gather Festival is dreadful. > > Lynne > > On 18 Mar 2011, at 10:37, Dane Trethowan wrote: > > Hi! > > Has anyone tried this freely available speech synthesiser? I looked up on the project page and went to the download link but couldn't find where to download it, the synthesiser is supposed to work with Apple OS10.6, Windows etc > > _______________________________________________ > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group since the 12th of April 2010, at: > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > From grtdane at internode.on.net Sun Mar 20 04:36:45 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2011 15:36:45 +1100 Subject: Talking Books In-Reply-To: <170F00E7-63CC-4A9D-B3C4-EECEB9BDB3CE@mac-access.net> References: <8B2585F1-7793-4A8D-9808-F812813A8ED9@internode.on.net> <170F00E7-63CC-4A9D-B3C4-EECEB9BDB3CE@mac-access.net> Message-ID: <9EAD7610-84C6-4953-ADA8-4B977AC0C7FE@internode.on.net> That can only be good, Vision Australia cover a few manufacturers including Humanware - don't know why they bother - and Plextalk. The Plextalk machines are by far the best I've seen. The Victor Reader Stream? Yep, once upon a not so long ago I thought it was very good and the machine showed a lot of promise but the upgrades we were promised never materialised in time so the machine was soon left behind by superior technology in other products. Humanware attempted to rectify the problem but the attempt was nothing more than a good belly laugh, an upgrade to allow the machine to play and record various formats for an extra $50.00? Come on now, we pay enough for these machines as is thanks if we buy them and the VR Stream should have been able to do this stuff from the outset. As I say, its a shame because the Stream has some very nice design features, one of which is the very nice keypad, not a rubber keypad but rather a nice feeling plastic keypad. On 20/03/2011, at 2:54 PM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: > The RNIB is now expanding its range to a couple of other manufacturers. > > > On 19 Mar 2011, at 06:39, Dane Trethowan wrote: > > I think the RNIB use the standard Plextalk CD Talking Book player, I started with that and for what it is I found it very good, does the job at any rate but I wanted something better so I got the Plextalk PTX1. > > The PTXA has the same sort of case but has quite a few differences, the buttons for one thing. > > Whereas the standard Plextalk CD player uses the volume, speed and tone controls as part of its number pad the PTX has a separate number pad completely thus more navigation functions etc. > > You'll also find a USB port and SD Card slot on the PTX1 along with an Ethernet port. > > The PTX1 has a software speech synthesiser built-in so you can read daisy texts from other sources such as downloaded from the Internet and placed onto your memory stick. > > You can transfer Daisy text and files to the PtX!'s internal memory or play directly from the media it is on whether that be CD, memory stick, SD card etc. I've actually used my PTX1 to encode CD'S into MP3 format, does that very nicely. > > We're supposed to have the automatic downloading of Daisy material from the library enabled on the PTX1 in the next update which will be nice, the PTX! is supposed to connect to a wi-fi network and it certainly does have bluetooth connectivity. > > > On 19/03/2011, at 4:23 AM, Chris Moore wrote: > >> Hi gang, >> >> I have jus taken my first steps into the world of DAISY talking books. I got one of them subscriptions to the RNIB's talking book library service (paid for of course by my local authority). The CD player that came with the 6 CD books is very easy to use and the process to return your books and order replacements via the website is a doddle too (mind the website could do with a kick up the ass and brought into 2011). Anyway, I will get to the point, is it possible (guess I should ask the RNIB this really but they will be closed now) can you get the books on SD card instead? Or are you allowed to transfer the books from CD to card yourself? If so, how do you do it? >> >> The reason why I ask is because I would prefer a personal portable DAISY player as I think the CD player is a bit bulky to carry around in your pocket (especially with my keys, iPhone, wallet, burger king and can of coke in there etc). So I am considering investing in a portable one. I know you can get some DAISY apps for the iPhone but don't think you can get RNIB content on there yet. So I am after a portable player that is quite loud too as I am a bit hard of hearing too. Have heard the Victor Stream can be a bit on the quiet side. So anyone else got experience on other players? >> >> Thanks >> >> Chris >> *Off to listen to Peter Kay >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free >> >> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat >> >> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group since the 12th of April 2010, at: >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html >> > > _______________________________________________ > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group since the 12th of April 2010, at: > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > > _______________________________________________ > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group since the 12th of April 2010, at: > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > From moore.c at blueyonder.co.uk Sun Mar 20 13:47:18 2011 From: moore.c at blueyonder.co.uk (Chris Moore) Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2011 13:47:18 +0000 Subject: Talking Books In-Reply-To: <170F00E7-63CC-4A9D-B3C4-EECEB9BDB3CE@mac-access.net> References: <8B2585F1-7793-4A8D-9808-F812813A8ED9@internode.on.net> <170F00E7-63CC-4A9D-B3C4-EECEB9BDB3CE@mac-access.net> Message-ID: Yes, it is the Plextalk CD player I have, and i see they have been testing the Plextalk portable player for use with memory cards. I like what the American Print House have done with the Plextalk by bringing out the Bookport Plus. I hope the RNIB give the Plextalk a lick of paint too and make it more user friendly as the Bookport Plus. On 20 Mar 2011, at 03:54, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: > The RNIB is now expanding its range to a couple of other manufacturers. > > > On 19 Mar 2011, at 06:39, Dane Trethowan wrote: > > I think the RNIB use the standard Plextalk CD Talking Book player, I started with that and for what it is I found it very good, does the job at any rate but I wanted something better so I got the Plextalk PTX1. > > The PTXA has the same sort of case but has quite a few differences, the buttons for one thing. > > Whereas the standard Plextalk CD player uses the volume, speed and tone controls as part of its number pad the PTX has a separate number pad completely thus more navigation functions etc. > > You'll also find a USB port and SD Card slot on the PTX1 along with an Ethernet port. > > The PTX1 has a software speech synthesiser built-in so you can read daisy texts from other sources such as downloaded from the Internet and placed onto your memory stick. > > You can transfer Daisy text and files to the PtX!'s internal memory or play directly from the media it is on whether that be CD, memory stick, SD card etc. I've actually used my PTX1 to encode CD'S into MP3 format, does that very nicely. > > We're supposed to have the automatic downloading of Daisy material from the library enabled on the PTX1 in the next update which will be nice, the PTX! is supposed to connect to a wi-fi network and it certainly does have bluetooth connectivity. > > > On 19/03/2011, at 4:23 AM, Chris Moore wrote: > >> Hi gang, >> >> I have jus taken my first steps into the world of DAISY talking books. I got one of them subscriptions to the RNIB's talking book library service (paid for of course by my local authority). The CD player that came with the 6 CD books is very easy to use and the process to return your books and order replacements via the website is a doddle too (mind the website could do with a kick up the ass and brought into 2011). Anyway, I will get to the point, is it possible (guess I should ask the RNIB this really but they will be closed now) can you get the books on SD card instead? Or are you allowed to transfer the books from CD to card yourself? If so, how do you do it? >> >> The reason why I ask is because I would prefer a personal portable DAISY player as I think the CD player is a bit bulky to carry around in your pocket (especially with my keys, iPhone, wallet, burger king and can of coke in there etc). So I am considering investing in a portable one. I know you can get some DAISY apps for the iPhone but don't think you can get RNIB content on there yet. So I am after a portable player that is quite loud too as I am a bit hard of hearing too. Have heard the Victor Stream can be a bit on the quiet side. So anyone else got experience on other players? >> >> Thanks >> >> Chris >> *Off to listen to Peter Kay >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free >> >> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat >> >> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group since the 12th of April 2010, at: >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html >> > > _______________________________________________ > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group since the 12th of April 2010, at: > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > > _______________________________________________ > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group since the 12th of April 2010, at: > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > From martin at x.it.okstate.edu Sun Mar 20 16:39:49 2011 From: martin at x.it.okstate.edu (Martin McCormick) Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2011 11:39:49 -0500 Subject: Talking Books, Copyrights and Duplication of Effort Message-ID: <201103201639.p2KGdnXo083471@x.it.okstate.edu> Has there been any attempt to unify Talking Book collections around the world such that Talking Books recorded by the US Library of Congress would be available to readers in Canada, England, Australia and anywhere else English is spoken such as South Africa and New Zealand? The restrictions seem to be very similar in all countries that have such programs so original copyright holders are not going to have much reason to cry foul. Copyrights are international by nature so if different countries shared their collections of books recorded for the blind, everybody would benefit. One would occasionally hear a book that had obviously been recorded in another English-speaking country, but it certainly would not bother me as I would much rather have access to it than none at all. One would still get their books from the same agencies, but those agencies would have access to the whole collection and all the works would appear in everybody's catalogs of available material. One could make the argument, "We spent our Dollars recording this book for our citizens. Why should we let some Englishman or Irishman read it?" Well, we might find some books that had been recorded in England, Ireland or Australia that we had not recorded here so we would be sharing effort more than anything else. One of my pet peeves in this world of modern technology is seeing duplication of effort to accomplish the same goals. Whether it is filling in the same information on multiple forms that good software could replicate when needed or manually doing repetitive tasks that can be automated while we relax or tackle the next big cerebral project, I think the world is much more efficient when every productive effort benefits the most people. From marrie12 at gmail.com Sun Mar 20 18:52:51 2011 From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah Alawami) Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2011 11:52:51 -0700 Subject: BREAKING: AT&T Buys T-Mobile Message-ID: I got word of this about 6 months ago except I thought they were going to buy sprint lol! read on. http://engt.co/eTeU9b From tsiegel at softcon.com Sun Mar 20 20:09:33 2011 From: tsiegel at softcon.com (Travis Siegel) Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2011 15:09:33 -0500 Subject: How Much Would You Pay for NY Times? announces new subscription plans, In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: You've got to be kidding. Even the paper version doesn't cost that much. There's no way by any stretch of the imagination I'd pay over 400 bucks a year for *any* newspaper, Heck, the apple developer connection subscription used to be 500 a year, and I only paid for that twice, because it actually provided real products for use in making real applications. And, even that was a stretch, and only happened, because I'd sold a house. :) From tsiegel at softcon.com Sun Mar 20 20:26:39 2011 From: tsiegel at softcon.com (Travis Siegel) Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2011 15:26:39 -0500 Subject: Talking Books In-Reply-To: <9EAD7610-84C6-4953-ADA8-4B977AC0C7FE@internode.on.net> References: <8B2585F1-7793-4A8D-9808-F812813A8ED9@internode.on.net> <170F00E7-63CC-4A9D-B3C4-EECEB9BDB3CE@mac-access.net> <9EAD7610-84C6-4953-ADA8-4B977AC0C7FE@internode.on.net> Message-ID: <20D39C27-7B45-489F-A775-D2322237E8EC@softcon.com> It's funny you should mention the upgraded vr stream. I obtained one of these devices, and it didn't work. I called humanware, and asked them what it would cost to have them check it out and tell me what was wrong with it. They checked the serial number, and told me that because it was a 2004 model, there would be no upgrade possible, I had to purchase a new one for full price, because anything that's more than 2 years old isn't upgradable/fixable. That is just plain silly in my opinion, and such nonsense turned me off permanently to any future humanware products. From marrie12 at gmail.com Sun Mar 20 20:39:22 2011 From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah Alawami) Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2011 13:39:22 -0700 Subject: How Much Would You Pay for NY Times? announces new subscription plans, In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: lol. I understand. I wish I were kidding but I do agree. this is quite ridiculous! Take care all. Sarah Alawami If you need an edit done on a small project go to http://music.marrie.org/master.html for more info. If you need to contact me my info is below. MSN and AIM: marrie12 at gmail.com website: http://music.marrie.org Podcast: http://marrie.podbean.com youtube: http://youtube.com/marrie125 On Mar 20, 2011, at 1:09 PM, Travis Siegel wrote: > You've got to be kidding. Even the paper version doesn't cost that much. > There's no way by any stretch of the imagination I'd pay over 400 bucks a year for *any* newspaper, Heck, the apple developer connection subscription used to be 500 a year, and I only paid for that twice, because it actually provided real products for use in making real applications. > And, even that was a stretch, and only happened, because I'd sold a house. :) > > _______________________________________________ > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group since the 12th of April 2010, at: > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > From tsiegel at softcon.com Sun Mar 20 20:44:44 2011 From: tsiegel at softcon.com (Travis Siegel) Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2011 15:44:44 -0500 Subject: Talking Books, Copyrights and Duplication of Effort In-Reply-To: <201103201639.p2KGdnXo083471@x.it.okstate.edu> References: <201103201639.p2KGdnXo083471@x.it.okstate.edu> Message-ID: You're likely not to see anything like this anytime soon. It sure would be nice, but I can tell you first hand, nsl doesn't even keep track of the stuff they've already recorded. Recently, someone was hunting for back issues of some of the magazine issues from the 80s and 90s, and he couldn't get them. I don't remember exactly whay that was, but I think it had something to do with the archive fformats, and where they're stored. In other words, there's no user serviceable parts inside. The issues have been sent, and no amount of requesting, talking to head librarians, or anything else is like to retrieve things that are no longer in production. (my intrepretation of course, but still) I personally see no reason at all why they couldn't make the back issues available just like they do with the braille ones, but alass, they don't, and have no plans to do so, so my guess is, no international cooperation in the near future. From moore.c at blueyonder.co.uk Sun Mar 20 21:01:03 2011 From: moore.c at blueyonder.co.uk (Chris Moore) Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2011 21:01:03 +0000 Subject: Talking Books, Copyrights and Duplication of Effort In-Reply-To: <201103201639.p2KGdnXo083471@x.it.okstate.edu> References: <201103201639.p2KGdnXo083471@x.it.okstate.edu> Message-ID: <8387C4B8-8224-4296-A7F2-57A847665E41@blueyonder.co.uk> I totally agree. Out of interest, how many books do your equivalent service providers have in their libraries over there? The Royal National Institute for the Blind (RNIB) claim to have over 18,000 here. Chris On 20 Mar 2011, at 16:39, Martin McCormick wrote: > Has there been any attempt to unify Talking Book > collections around the world such that Talking Books recorded by > the US Library of Congress would be available to readers in > Canada, England, Australia and anywhere else English is spoken > such as South Africa and New Zealand? > > The restrictions seem to be very similar in all > countries that have such programs so original copyright holders > are not going to have much reason to cry foul. > > Copyrights are international by nature so if different > countries shared their collections of books recorded for the > blind, everybody would benefit. One would occasionally hear a > book that had obviously been recorded in another > English-speaking country, but it certainly would not bother me > as I would much rather have access to it than none at all. > > One would still get their books from the same agencies, > but those agencies would have access to the whole collection and > all the works would appear in everybody's catalogs of available > material. > > One could make the argument, "We spent our Dollars > recording this book for our citizens. Why should we let some > Englishman or Irishman read it?" Well, we might find some books > that had been recorded in England, Ireland or Australia that we > had not recorded here so we would be sharing effort more than > anything else. > > One of my pet peeves in this world of modern technology > is seeing duplication of effort to accomplish the same goals. > Whether it is filling in the same information on multiple forms > that good software could replicate when needed or manually doing > repetitive tasks that can be automated while we relax or tackle > the next big cerebral project, I think the world is much more > efficient when every productive effort benefits the most people. > _______________________________________________ > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group since the 12th of April 2010, at: > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > From tsiegel at softcon.com Sun Mar 20 22:31:31 2011 From: tsiegel at softcon.com (Travis Siegel) Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2011 17:31:31 -0500 Subject: graphics cards used to build a supercomputer Message-ID: <1556FB01-4B10-468F-B630-4826E6E41A49@softcon.com> This article was written in 2008, but it shows what can be done when folks think outside the box. Basically, some folks took 4 high-end video cards, and turned them into a supercomputing cluster. The 4 video cards performs the equivalent of 350 standard cpus in desktop machines, and in some cases, even outperformed a supercomputer that had been built at great expense which had 512 cpus in it. That's some quite amazing stuff. Now, I think it's time I go track down a few of these cards and get cracking on my own supercomputer. :) From tsiegel at softcon.com Sun Mar 20 22:34:07 2011 From: tsiegel at softcon.com (Travis Siegel) Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2011 17:34:07 -0500 Subject: graphics cards used to build a supercomputer In-Reply-To: <1556FB01-4B10-468F-B630-4826E6E41A49@softcon.com> References: <1556FB01-4B10-468F-B630-4826E6E41A49@softcon.com> Message-ID: <2C2195A0-23CE-4C67-8354-E58F7928ED03@softcon.com> > This article was written in 2008, but it shows what can be done > when folks think outside the box. > Basically, some folks took 4 high-end video cards, and turned them > into a supercomputing cluster. The 4 video cards performs the > equivalent of 350 standard cpus in desktop machines, and in some > cases, even outperformed a supercomputer that had been built at > great expense which had 512 cpus in it. > That's some quite amazing stuff. Now, I think it's time I go track > down a few of these cards and get cracking on my own supercomputer. :) > Sorry, forgot the url to the article. http://www.computerweekly.com/Articles/2008/07/07/231363/Graphics- chips-help-supercomputers-become-commonplace.htm From marrie12 at gmail.com Mon Mar 21 02:34:59 2011 From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah Alawami) Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2011 19:34:59 -0700 Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?In_AT=26T_=26_T-Mobile_Merger=2C_Everybody_Loses?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?=3A_Tech_News_and_Analysis_=AB_?= Message-ID: Well we'll see what happens with this merge. hopefully prices will fall but somehow I don't think that's going to happen. read on. http://bit.ly/ef2xV3 (via @om) From marrie12 at gmail.com Mon Mar 21 02:40:04 2011 From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah Alawami) Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2011 19:40:04 -0700 Subject: =?windows-1252?Q?Facebook_Comments_=96_your_comments_are_no_long?= =?windows-1252?Q?er_yours?= Message-ID: This comes from a blog post. Facebook Comments ? your comments are no longer yours Before I get into this I need to make a bit of a disclaimer. I am not a Facebook fan. I have a Facebook account, a fan page (or whatever they are calling it these days) for my WinExtra blog, and I am a member of the Inquisitr page. That said I have a growing dread about Facebook and its apparent intention to suck everything, and everyone, into that black hole where we have become nothing more that data points used to make money from advertisers and marketers. The really big problem though, from a content producer?s point of view especially is that Facebook has become a major force for driving traffic. Here on Inquisitr I have watched the live stats as they roll by and without a doubt Facebook accounts for a huge amount of traffic. This of course is largely due to the incredible proliferation of the Facebook ?Like? buttons and now Facebook is looking to capitalize by rolling out an improvement to their Commenting plugin for blogs. We have seen a number of big name tech blogs start using the Facebook Comments in place of the built in commenting system for their blogging platform or using one of the third party commenting systems like Disqus. A couple of things that those blogs are reporting as a result of using Facebook Comments is a reduction in the number of comments as well as a visible vanilla-ization of the comments. However there is one other thing about using Facebook Comments that the majority of content producers, and commenter?s as well but to a lesser degree, are missing. Those comments now being left are for all intents and purposes invisible. By this I mean, they are no longer being indexed by search engines. On the surface this might not seem all that important but if you stop and consider for a moment that comments add value to your content, and for commenter?s it adds to their reputation and identity. By removing these comments from being able to be indexed by search engines you are removing another important way for your content to be discovered. As A.J. Kohn wrote in a post about this black holing of comments, which if you haven?t read yet you are missing a great post: Search engines won?t see Facebook Comments.That is a big deal. Comments reflect the user syntax. They capture how people are really talking about a topic or product. Comments help search engines to create keyword clusters and deliver long-tail searches. Comments may signal that the content is still fresh, important and popular. All that goes by the wayside. It?s no secret that search engines crave text. Depriving Google of this valuable source of text is an aggressive move by Facebook. Is this on purpose? I have to believe it is. I can?t know for sure but it?s curious that my Quora question has gone unanswered by Facebook, even when I?ve asked a specific Facebook Engineer to answer. I agree totally with A.J. that this is a totally intentional move by Facebook. In one simple move Facebook succeeds on multiple levels with the most important being the removing of content that Google would normally be able to index. Secondary is the fact that not only are they locking content producers even further in to the Facebook world but now it is locking in the readers of those blogs. There is no doubt that Facebook Comments will start showing up on more and more blogs, mainly because of the decrease of trolls, but one has to wonder if that inconvenience is worth the price of bland comments that are replacing a vibrant comment community. Then add on the fact that an integral part of your blog is no longer discoverable outside of Facebook and one really should be thinking long and hard as to whether the convenience offered by Facebook Comments is worth the cost. From mstores at indiana.edu Mon Mar 21 17:04:37 2011 From: mstores at indiana.edu (Mary Stores) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 13:04:37 -0400 Subject: Kindle Book Reader, blind people using them In-Reply-To: <712BA43B-14FC-4977-AC1E-436F7F4C5B48@internode.on.net> References: <712BA43B-14FC-4977-AC1E-436F7F4C5B48@internode.on.net> Message-ID: <20110321130437.bphcmmg7ok4sw8o8@webmail.iu.edu> Amazon.com has an accessible plugin for PC version of the Kindle which I have used. It's not as accessible as reading books say, with a word processor where you can navigate by chapter and page number, but you can listen to the book. Mary' Quoting Dane Trethowan : > Hi! > > Listening to a most interesting podcast from > http://www.blkindcooltech.com which describes the accessibility > features of the Kindle Book Reader as available from > http://www.amazon.co.uk > > Seems some of the machine is accessible whilst some isn't but at > least you can "Read" books and that's what the machine was designed > for. > > > _______________________________________________ > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, > virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's > dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat > group since the 12th of April 2010, at: > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > From marrie12 at gmail.com Wed Mar 23 02:01:52 2011 From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah Alawami) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 19:01:52 -0700 Subject: Electrode lets lithium batteries charge in just two minutes: Message-ID: <7C9ED453-E04B-4A2F-A63A-2C8136EF572A@gmail.com> This looks interesting but what about heat caused by this method? http://t.co/nEVfehr From martin at x.it.okstate.edu Wed Mar 23 11:22:08 2011 From: martin at x.it.okstate.edu (Martin McCormick) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 06:22:08 -0500 Subject: Electrode lets lithium batteries charge in just two minutes: Message-ID: <201103231122.p2NBM8px099267@x.it.okstate.edu> Most fast charging systems have a thermistor in the battery pack that reports back to the charger to make it limit charging current if the battery gets too hot. For the cheaper designs, the report is more direct and the neighbors may call the police to report shots fired or fireworks. Sarah Alawami writes: > This looks interesting but what about heat caused by this method? From gordon at mac-access.net Sat Mar 26 15:27:16 2011 From: gordon at mac-access.net (Gordon Smith) Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2011 15:27:16 +0000 Subject: What's Hot? Message-ID: <696A8DB0-B7C1-4A1B-91FC-8FEFDA1396B7@mac-access.net> Hi all What is the latest deal regarding Windows CD/DVD writing software? I ask because Lynne and I now have a NetBook and external DVD writers. I'm a little reluctant to upgrade Nero, because to be honest it's just way too bloated, as I remember it. All that additional media stuff we simply don't need. I used to be a fan of Roxio, but I gather that accessibility has nose-dived in recent releases. Easy Media Creator as I believe it's called nowadays is apparently all mouse orientated, so that would seem to be out of the mix. So, what's left? I'm out of touch with most things Windows at the moment, so I'd appreciate input with a little more than simply "Try X Y Z". If you only want to answer by saying that, please don't bother, thank you all the same. Those answers are usually less helpful than a chocolate fireguard. Gordon From grtdane at internode.on.net Sat Mar 26 22:50:54 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2011 09:50:54 +1100 Subject: What's Hot? In-Reply-To: <696A8DB0-B7C1-4A1B-91FC-8FEFDA1396B7@mac-access.net> References: <696A8DB0-B7C1-4A1B-91FC-8FEFDA1396B7@mac-access.net> Message-ID: <9B0624A1-4CEE-493E-BFEE-04EF6BD712BE@internode.on.net> Everyone I know has ditched Nero and using Power ISo. On 27/03/2011, at 2:27 AM, Gordon Smith wrote: > Hi all > > What is the latest deal regarding Windows CD/DVD writing software? I ask because Lynne and I now have a NetBook and external DVD writers. I'm a little reluctant to upgrade Nero, because to be honest it's just way too bloated, as I remember it. All that additional media stuff we simply don't need. > > I used to be a fan of Roxio, but I gather that accessibility has nose-dived in recent releases. Easy Media Creator as I believe it's called nowadays is apparently all mouse orientated, so that would seem to be out of the mix. > > So, what's left? I'm out of touch with most things Windows at the moment, so I'd appreciate input with a little more than simply "Try X Y Z". If you only want to answer by saying that, please don't bother, thank you all the same. Those answers are usually less helpful than a chocolate fireguard. > > Gordon > > _______________________________________________ > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group since the 12th of April 2010, at: > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > From tsiegel at softcon.com Sun Mar 27 04:14:10 2011 From: tsiegel at softcon.com (Travis Siegel) Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2011 22:14:10 -0500 Subject: What's Hot? In-Reply-To: <696A8DB0-B7C1-4A1B-91FC-8FEFDA1396B7@mac-access.net> References: <696A8DB0-B7C1-4A1B-91FC-8FEFDA1396B7@mac-access.net> Message-ID: <72C3709D-D53A-44C4-BB31-571F82582A1B@softcon.com> I know this doesn't help you, and I'm sorry for posting when it really doesn't further the thread, but it needs to be said. :) I never understood why folks used nero at all. I used it once, because it shipped with my cd burner when I bought the first one for my pc. I used it once, then junked it and went looking for another one. Nero wasn't the least bit accessible, took half n hour to do anything useful, and needed 10 steps to accomplish the simplest of tasks. After I went hunting for another program, I found a program by stompsoft called stomp gold (or something similar, it's been a while) I loaded up the demo, and right away, the cd burning wizard popped up, and I had a burned cd in 5 minutes or less. I instantly went and bought a copy, and found it to be 100 percent accessible, and you didn't even have to use the wizards if you wanted to do things yourself, such as setting file types, burn speeds, and a whole host of other options. I still use that software on my windows machines, but it's sadly no longer for sale on stompsoft's website, and hasn't been for some time. The last time I needed a copy (some 3-4 years ago) I emailed them, and they sent me a zip file containing the software, but for whatever reason, it isn't available for purchase, though I'm not sure why. It could be because it's been incorporated into their backup software which is on their site. Anyway, there is a point to this story. Don't stick to esomething just because everyone else says it's great or the most used product, find your own path, and you might just be surprised at what you find. Too many folks ask what everyone else uses, and stick with it, never realizing there's other items out there that work just as well, or (in this case) even better than the stuff everyone else uses. Gordon, I'm not talking about you, you've demonstrated many times you're not opposed to checking out new stuff. I'm just mentioning this story because others may not even realize there's other options, and don't know they can use other things. From lynne at mac-access.net Sun Mar 27 08:44:14 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2011 08:44:14 +0100 Subject: Plextalk PTP1 Message-ID: <7B0D057F-75BD-423B-A8F4-86B85A2598E1@mac-access.net> Hello everybody Does anybody happen to know whether the new Plextalk PTP1 version 5 is available yet? Here are some specs for this really nice sounding machine: Shinano Kenshi Co., Ltd. is pleased to announce the release of PLEXTALK Pocket PTP1 new firmware, Version 5. PLEXTALK Pocket PTP1 will be updated with new functions such as podcast receiver, web radio, MS-Word DOCX support, Braillenet, Internet Archive, etc. PLEXTALK Pocket PTP1 also has added useful content management features. Some of the new features of version 5 are: 1) Podcast receiver and web radio streaming using wireless LAN capability Podcast receiver: Single or multiple episodes of podcast feeds are downloaded via the wireless LAN feature of the Pocket PTP1. You can subscribe or unsubscribe to podcast feeds using the 'PLEXTALK Transfer for Pocket' software. The Podcast category is announced when you press the Title Key and go to 'Category'. The podcast menu has also been added in the Menu system. Web radio streaming: When you download a play list file (PLS, M3U, ASX) from a web site to your computer and transfer it to the Pocket PTP1 the 'PLEXTALK Transfer for Pocket' software, you can stream a web radio station on your Pocket. The web radio category is announced when you press the Title Key and go to 'Category'. 2) New content support Microsoft Word .DOCX file support: To read a Microsoft Word .docx file on the SD card or USB flash memory using the Text To Speech synthesizer (TTS). The Pocket PTP1 categorizes MS Word .DOCX in 'text' category. BrailleNet (France) PDTB2 support: To play DAISY 3 text encrypted by PDTB2. Internet Archive (U.S.) PDTB2 support: To play DAISY 3 text encrypted by PDTB2. 3) New categories for easier title selection 'Recordings' category has been added and the English 'Audio' category has been changed to 'Music' category. Categories for the title selection are 'DAISY title', 'Recordings', 'Music', 'Text', 'Audio book', 'Podcast' and 'Web Radio'. 4) Others 10 minute or 30 second time navigation Complete power off function Search a title by the New titles list This is a really attractive sounding thing I must admit. Lynne From lynne at mac-access.net Sun Mar 27 09:02:11 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2011 09:02:11 +0100 Subject: What's Hot? In-Reply-To: <9B0624A1-4CEE-493E-BFEE-04EF6BD712BE@internode.on.net> References: <696A8DB0-B7C1-4A1B-91FC-8FEFDA1396B7@mac-access.net> <9B0624A1-4CEE-493E-BFEE-04EF6BD712BE@internode.on.net> Message-ID: <4FF0BDD2-9CBA-48EE-977F-6E750D879D40@mac-access.net> hello Dane On 26 Mar 2011, at 22:50, Dane Trethowan wrote: ? Everyone I know has ditched Nero and using Power ISo. I presume Power ISO is a full-featured writing package then? I can understand why your friends have dumped Nero. It's big, bulky and bloated. I just looked at the thing and my god! I never saw such a pile of useless junk for cluttering up one's hard drive as that! Lynne From lynne at mac-access.net Sun Mar 27 09:14:11 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2011 09:14:11 +0100 Subject: What's Hot? In-Reply-To: <72C3709D-D53A-44C4-BB31-571F82582A1B@softcon.com> References: <696A8DB0-B7C1-4A1B-91FC-8FEFDA1396B7@mac-access.net> <72C3709D-D53A-44C4-BB31-571F82582A1B@softcon.com> Message-ID: <06E09867-64F8-4984-BD1B-8A5360819194@mac-access.net> Hello Travis On 27 Mar 2011, at 04:14, Travis Siegel wrote: ? I know this doesn't help you, and I'm sorry for posting when it really doesn't further the thread, but it needs to be said. :) I have no problem with that whatsoever and, actually, it does further the thread. I won't quote your message; although I did read it, and I agree with you. Although I can't comment on the accessibility stuff because I never ever saw Nero with a screen-reader. But I have just seen screen shots of the programme and I really think that Nero is a thing of the passed. I'm told though that it was accessible at one time. But that's a mute point now, since I've opted not to go that route, based on the advice of other people; some of whom I trust the word of implicitly. Everybody has also told me to stay away from Roxio products as well or, as I gather they're called now. Sonic Solutions. I'm looking at their products right now and again it looks totally unfriendly from a screen-reader perspective. I don't see any keyboard options it all looks like a nice little "Clickerty-click" interface. So we'll give that one a miss as well I think. OK, so now it would seem as though I'm going to have to go chasing Power ISO to see what that one is like. We used to use a programme called "Magic ISO" as well but I don't think that is a full-featured writing programme, although IU could be wrong. Anyway, thank you to everybody who gave me advice/opinions. They are appreciated. Sometimes people comment and their comments are vague and unhelpful, which is unfortunate because I always thought the whole point of this was to help each other, as I always try to do. But this time it looks as though the information I got back privately and on list was good. Lynne From grtdane at internode.on.net Sun Mar 27 12:30:47 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2011 22:30:47 +1100 Subject: What's Hot? In-Reply-To: <4FF0BDD2-9CBA-48EE-977F-6E750D879D40@mac-access.net> References: <696A8DB0-B7C1-4A1B-91FC-8FEFDA1396B7@mac-access.net> <9B0624A1-4CEE-493E-BFEE-04EF6BD712BE@internode.on.net> <4FF0BDD2-9CBA-48EE-977F-6E750D879D40@mac-access.net> Message-ID: Absolutely, not only that Nero is one of those many pieces of software which - once installed - is very difficult to illiminate from one's system. On 27/03/2011, at 7:02 PM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: > hello Dane > > On 26 Mar 2011, at 22:50, Dane Trethowan wrote: > > ? Everyone I know has ditched Nero and using Power ISo. > > I presume Power ISO is a full-featured writing package then? I can understand why your friends have dumped Nero. It's big, bulky and bloated. I just looked at the thing and my god! I never saw such a pile of useless junk for cluttering up one's hard drive as that! > > Lynne > > _______________________________________________ > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group since the 12th of April 2010, at: > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > From grtdane at internode.on.net Sun Mar 27 17:16:01 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 03:16:01 +1100 Subject: Review Of CC Sw Radio Message-ID: Hi! I've submitted a review of the CC SW Radio to Blind Cool Tech, will take a while to be processed so subscribers to the techno-chat list have access to a sneak preview in the meantime , go to http://dl.dropbox.com/u/10565527/CC%20SW%20Radio%20Review.mp3 From support at tft-bbs.com Mon Mar 28 15:59:02 2011 From: support at tft-bbs.com (Gordon & Lynne Smith) Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 15:59:02 +0100 Subject: Voluntary Service Change Message-ID: <515B88D1-F691-4580-85F5-7AA131EE380B@tft-bbs.com> Hello everybody As you may or may not be aware, the identity of TFT BBS is no longer being used here, and we are gradually migrating everything over to Mac Access Dot Net. But we will retain the TFT BBS domain itself, in order that this and other list services may continue unaffected. It is possible that at some point we will decide to move this list to the Mac Access domain. If we do, be assured the changeover will be smooth for our members. This is one time when I really would prefer not to have to post. But given everything, we feel that the time has come to offer our members the option to donate a sum of their own choosing to Mac Access Dot Net, in order to help us meet the spiralling costs of maintaining this service. Although I'm sure this post is going to degenerate into something of an essay, a ramble, let me first attempt to explain exactly what's involved here, so that you have a clearer understanding of why we have taken the decision to give you this option. We undertook some time ago to provide services for the visually impaired, including free email addresses and free web and domain hosting. This is a promise to which we remain firmly committed, and we remain as keen and ever willing as we have always been to help where we can in this regard; you have our word of honour on that point. We will never charge for the non-commercial websites we host and, for those websites whose activities are commercial, we feel that we offer an extremely good value for money service, by charging a mere ?25.00 per year for virtually unlimited hosting. Consider: Most providers place restrictions upon how much email traffic a user may generate in a month; this is known as "Email Quotas"; we do not! Most providers impose webspace hosting restrictions upon their clients; we do not! Naturally, we're aware, (only too aware actually), that many people opt to use services such as Google and Hotmail in order to try to preserve their anonymity and get around the quota issues. Indeed, one person actually told us a while ago that we should transfer Mac Access over to a "Google Group", as one of the other list providers has done. This, we promise you, we will never, ever, ever, not in a month of Sundays, do! This email forum doesn't run itself, it has to be paid for by somebody and, of course, that "somebody" is us. We have no plans to change anything whatsoever related to the forum. You may manage your subscriptions as you see fit, and we are always grateful for your recommending the group to new members. We also remain absolutely and completely committed to your privacy. We give you our word that, unless legally obligated to do so by the relevant legal governing bodies, we will never divulge your contact information to any third parties under any circumstances whatsoever, without your prior and explicit permission to do so. That is an absolute guarantee which we give you when you sign up, and as long as you are a member of any of our groups that guarantee is absolute. As a side note, for the benefit of those of you who join these lists using Google because you're frightened of your email addresses being passed around, even the members of the group who try to obtain this data from our servers will be unsuccessful. The "list" command is configured not to divulge that information. However, as I said earlier in this essay, somebody has to pay the costs of not only maintain the networks which power the forum, but also the time it takes to manage. People usually take for granted the fact that lists exist; they don't give a thought to management. Gordon in particular spends a significant part of his working day on keeping the list spam-free. you'd be amazed how many non-members try to post to our groups, in order to spread their malicious email content as widely as possible. MailMan and Postfix do offer some functionality in this regard. However, spammers are growing ever more sophisticated in their techniques and it's a never-ending on-going battle to keep up with them and, where possible, remain one step ahead. So we are giving you the option of helping us out, even if it's only to the tune of a couple of bucks! Those of you who now use our email services directly are in a position to testify as to how little, or how much, spam you receive on your Mac Access email service. We challenge anybody at all to prove to us that they're being subjected to large volumes of unsolicited mail on their accounts. Indeed, since we started providing this service, we have had only one client who discontinued their account claiming dissatisfaction. And that happened only because the client did not read what we tried very hard to explain to them about a one-off event which occurred when we changed connectivity providers on 17 February 2011. The former client complained that their service timed out on the day of change-over. Of course it did! The former provider was turned off as the first part of the switch-over, and we made it clear that we couldn't do anything to avoid that as you cannot have networked services which overlap like that. Indeed, when we discovered that the hardware we had been sent to service the new SDSL network wads faulty, Gordon and I drove 300 miles down to London and 300 miles back, rather than wait a week for a replacement to arrive. We did our very very best to bring this back up as quickly as possible and we remain totally committed in that way as I write. Be that as it may, I am sure that the vast majority of our direct clients will attest to satisfaction with their service. If you are a client and not satisfied with what we offer you, please do contact us; we'd love to know why! If you go to the Mac Access Dot Net homepage, and, if appropriate, use your screen-reader or other similar accessibility tool to navigate by heading until you reach the "How Can You Help?" heading. Under that heading, you will now find a "Donate" button which will take you to the PayPal secure website. If you see fit, you may donate to Mac Access Dot Net in a secure and safe environment. If you opt to donate, please be aware that your donation will be graciously received, and please accept our thanks. In real terms when you add it all up, it costs Gordon and I not far short of ?150.00 GBP, or, in other words, $130.00 (US) to maintain this service for a single month; and that is a very conservative estimate. We use business level dual-tyrunk networking, business class multi-domain MX relays located in London, Belfast, Los Angeles, Montreal and Sydney, all of which store our mail in the event that our servers go down. We also employ branded secondary DNS servers located in London, Los angeles and Oklahoma City so that, at all times, our zone data and that of the domains we host for clients is available even if our primary servers go down. On site, we now have a grand total of 6 Mac OSX-based servers functioning in a cluster across 2 public network trunks so as to try to provide continuous and stable access for our clients and list members. If one network goes down, Gordon has developed a sophisticated IP routing table so that a "fail-safe" system clicks in, and the services are transferred to the other network without human intervention. In short, a very great deal of time, thought and investment has already gone into Mac Access Dot Net and we have more planned for later this year, which will enhance services for our clients still further and provide what we hope will be an exceptional service, given that we don't ask a mandatory bean for what we give you. But we're still going through a global recession, whatever the British government would have us all believe. The costs are spiralling, and we would very much welcome your donations if you value this service. All that having been said, please know that even if you opt not to donate, you will not be treated any differently from those who do. We are not doing this as a charge, a fee or in any way a condition of service; I really hope I have managed to get that point across because it is something which is very very important to us. Further, donations will be treated in the strictest confidence and, whilst we will always contact the donator to offer our thanks, that's as far as it ever goes; your privacy and confidentiality are absolute, guaranteed, paramount. If you would like further explanation or information, please feel free to contact us via the support address of this group in the usual way and we will be most happy to answer your queries. With warmest wishes from us here at Mac Access Dot Net to all of our members. Lynne From marrie12 at gmail.com Mon Mar 28 22:01:14 2011 From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah Alawami) Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 14:01:14 -0700 Subject: [Moron Dept.] Have your tweets read to you by a stupid looking blob (Video) Message-ID: <55563318-ECC6-40D6-A19D-F64E1783F525@gmail.com> [Moron Dept.] Have your tweets read to you by a stupid looking blob (Video) link to full article is below. Look I like Twitter. I spend a lot of time using the service and at one time I even developed a Windows client for it but at some point don?t we have to get a grip and realize that Twitter isn?t the end all, be all to the point we have to do stupid things like having tweets read to us? I guess not because what you see above, and in the video below, is the newest way to bring your Twitter stream to *cough* life *cough*. Besides being a stupid idea to begin with, these Twimals, as they are called, are freaking stupid looking blobs of plastic. Really, let?s get a grip here folks. via Engadget http://bit.ly/idjQ5V From grtdane at internode.on.net Tue Mar 29 05:29:54 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 15:29:54 +1100 Subject: Stand-alone Accessible Internet Radio packages Message-ID: <4D916042.7020901@internode.on.net> Hi! I'm looking for a stand-alone Internet radio, something small to put in my kitchen or wherever. My hopes weren't too high of finding a device which was completely accessible, I was thinking for example of having someone set up the radio for me including putting stations into the presets and then perhaps just beeing able to "scroll" through the presets as one would with a digitally controlled radio, was on the verge of purchasing a set recommended to me which seemed to meet my requirements when someone on another list suggested the Squeezebox Boom. I found an info page at [http://www.logitech.com/en-au/speakers-audio/wireless-music-systems/devices/4707] and from a glance at this the Squeezebox Boom looks very nice and I've reserved one, they seem very scarce. So what's so good about this device? Well once connected to your network you can programme all features of the Squeezebox Boom using a HTML interface. You can get Apps from the Itunes Store for your Ipad/Iphone/Ipod Touch to control all functions of the Squeezebox Boom. The Squeezebox Boom not only plays Internet radio but will also play just about every audio format you can think of including FLAC and Apple Lossless. a 30 watt digital amp which should produce some very good distortion free sound. I resisted the Plextalk Pocket, its had Internet radio capabilities for quite some time though I'm told that format is limited and certainly price is extremely high out here at any rate, over $800.00 U.S. . From grtdane at internode.on.net Wed Mar 30 16:27:57 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 02:27:57 +1100 Subject: A feature of the Jarte Plus word processor worthy of a mention Message-ID: <4D934BFD.2070609@internode.on.net> Hi Everyone! I've been using the Jarte Plus word processing package for Windows for quite some time, the main reason I bought it was because of the bargain price and the fact that I didn't want to go for a pilots licence to drive something complex such as Microsoft Word 2010. Jarte is compatible with Word doc files along with rtf, txt etc. One of the nice accessible features of this software is the Background spell checking facility, type a wrong word and the software beeps and pops up a dialogue box to inform you that a possible error has detected, instructions are then given on how you can correct the mistake. So suppose the error is a miss-spelt word, move the cursor over the word and press the context menu key. When you cursor down through the menu you'll hear alternative choices for words spelt to you and other options spoken, just press return on your choice and the job's done, very nice! . From grtdane at internode.on.net Wed Mar 30 16:37:57 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 02:37:57 +1100 Subject: Squeezebox Boom Message-ID: Hi! My Logitech Squeezebox Boom has been dispatched so I'm told so I'll let you all know how I go with it. You can also follow my progress with this through my Twitter or through my Blog at http://www.grtdane.wordpress.com From martin at x.it.okstate.edu Wed Mar 30 18:02:09 2011 From: martin at x.it.okstate.edu (Martin McCormick) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 12:02:09 -0500 Subject: A feature of the Jarte Plus word processor worthy of a mention Message-ID: <201103301702.p2UH295f044218@x.it.okstate.edu> I am such a bad speller that I like to wait until I have created the whole document and then spell-check it otherwise it would drive me nuts as it corrected me constantly. I guess that's one of those things that is an individual issue. If I am typing, I don't like to hear other responses than the echo of the key strokes. Ever heard of the Cupertino effect? According to wikipedia and articles I have read about this topic, it is the tendency of word processors to suggest inappropriate words for what it sees as misspellings. The expression comes from the early days when word processors mistook words like cooperation as misspelled words and substituted Cupertino as in the town in California where Apple is headquartered. A book I read about great ideas gone wrong even quoted some United Nations documents in which Cupertino replaced cooperation. The passages range from sentences that sort of make you raise your eyebrows and say, "Huh?" to sentences that are obviously just wrong. It is rather amusing. Dane Trethowan writes: > Hi Everyone! > > > I've been using the Jarte Plus word processing package for Windows for > quite some time, the main reason I bought it was because of the bargain > price and the fact that I didn't want to go for a pilots licence to drive > something complex such as Microsoft Word 2010. > > > Jarte is compatible with Word doc files along with rtf, txt etc. > > > One of the nice accessible features of this software is the Background > spell checking facility, type a wrong word and the software beeps and pops > up a dialogue box to inform you that a possible error has detected, > instructions are then given on how you can correct the mistake. > > > > So suppose the error is a miss-spelt word, move the cursor over the word > and press the context menu key. When you cursor down through the menu > you'll hear alternative choices for words spelt to you and other options > spoken, just press return on your choice and the job's done, very nice! > . > > > _______________________________________________ > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, > virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated > web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group > since the 12th of April 2010, at: > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > From djden at thejazzden.org.uk Wed Mar 30 21:50:07 2011 From: djden at thejazzden.org.uk (Dennis Freedman) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 21:50:07 +0100 Subject: Interacting with text tweets on Symbian phones with Talks? Message-ID: <31EF30D2-D299-4B55-ABC6-9DC78D26BA3A@thejazzden.org.uk> Hello Not sure if this is the correct list to ask, but hope someone can help. Is there a way of following links mentioned in a tweet received as text messages on my N96 Nokia phone with Talks? The text reads fine, of course, but the url's are just given and there appears no way of following the link. Is there a way, other than having to copy out the link and then going to a web browser outside of Messages? Any help welcomed. Dennis. From grtdane at internode.on.net Thu Mar 31 00:02:35 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 10:02:35 +1100 Subject: A feature of the Jarte Plus word processor worthy of a mention In-Reply-To: <201103301702.p2UH295f044218@x.it.okstate.edu> References: <201103301702.p2UH295f044218@x.it.okstate.edu> Message-ID: And here's the beauty of Jarte you see, use spell checking on a word, document or not at all! the choice is yours . On 31/03/2011, at 4:02 AM, Martin McCormick wrote: > I am such a bad speller that I like to wait until I have created > the whole document and then spell-check it otherwise it would > drive me nuts as it corrected me constantly. I guess that's one > of those things that is an individual issue. If I am typing, I > don't like to hear other responses than the echo of the key > strokes. > > Ever heard of the Cupertino > effect? According to wikipedia and articles I have read about > this topic, it is the tendency of word processors to suggest > inappropriate words for what it sees as misspellings. > > The expression comes from the early days when word > processors mistook words like cooperation as misspelled words > and substituted Cupertino as in the town in California where > Apple is headquartered. > > A book I read about great ideas gone wrong even quoted > some United Nations documents in which Cupertino replaced > cooperation. The passages range from sentences that sort of make > you raise your eyebrows and say, "Huh?" to sentences that are > obviously just wrong. It is rather amusing. > > Dane Trethowan writes: >> Hi Everyone! >> >> >> I've been using the Jarte Plus word processing package for Windows for >> quite some time, the main reason I bought it was because of the bargain >> price and the fact that I didn't want to go for a pilots licence to drive >> something complex such as Microsoft Word 2010. >> >> >> Jarte is compatible with Word doc files along with rtf, txt etc. >> >> >> One of the nice accessible features of this software is the Background >> spell checking facility, type a wrong word and the software beeps and pops >> up a dialogue box to inform you that a possible error has detected, >> instructions are then given on how you can correct the mistake. >> >> >> >> So suppose the error is a miss-spelt word, move the cursor over the word >> and press the context menu key. When you cursor down through the menu >> you'll hear alternative choices for words spelt to you and other options >> spoken, just press return on your choice and the job's done, very nice! >> . >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, >> virus and worm-free >> >> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated >> web pages located at >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat >> >> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group >> since the 12th of April 2010, at: >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html >> >> > _______________________________________________ > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group since the 12th of April 2010, at: > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html >