From support at mac-access.net Tue Nov 1 01:03:56 2011 From: support at mac-access.net (Gordon & Lynne) Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 01:03:56 +0000 Subject: Resuming Control Message-ID: <6156C001-8499-4037-B015-1535EC6E0711@mac-access.net> Hello everybody Just a note to let those of you who don't already know that Gordon is now home again; so he and I are resuming primary list control. A big thank you to Mary for her vigilance over the last few days while we've been unavoidably detained, so to speak. If you have list-related issues you may now once again come to us as your first port of call. Lynne From lynne at mac-access.net Tue Nov 1 01:52:45 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 01:52:45 +0000 Subject: Tune-Up Utilities 2012 [Revisited] Message-ID: Hello everybody OK, I've just got around to installing Tune-Up Utilities while I'm sitting with Gordon who is asleep. But that's beside the point. I thought I'd give it a try with a screen-reader and I am getting some very interesting if unexpected results based on what I'd been lead to believe. Of course, it's entirely possible that this is user error and in actual fact it probably is my fault. My accessibility experience under Windows is very limited although I would have thought this would work. When I press either the eft/right cursor keys or the tab/shift+tab key combinations with Window-Eyes 7.5 installed and running, all I'm hearing is "Tab Control", "Tab Control". What am I doing wrong? I can drive it with the mouse; but that's not the point. Again as I said I am sure this is my error. Lynne From grtdane at internode.on.net Tue Nov 1 02:56:52 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 13:56:52 +1100 Subject: Tune-Up Utilities 2012 [Revisited] In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Yep, you'll hear "Tab-control", I'm not sure what's going on there but you may find extra buttons if you keep tabbing around, that's not the best way to access the software with the tab and cursor keys and I really do wish that people - not just you - would come away from the thought that to access something you use tab and cursor keys because this just doesn't hold true for every application running Windows. Thankfully all the very good screen reading software available including NVDA have methods whereby you can browse the screen and find the buttons thus being able to "click" on them and so forth. In the case of WE you use the Mouse keys to navigate many of the Tune-Up Utility screens, this is an easy way to find the buttons and the information that the utilities present. If you want better accessibility then that then the main Tune-Up Utilities interface presents a HTML Interface which you may prefer. On 01/11/2011, at 12:52 PM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: > Hello everybody > > OK, I've just got around to installing Tune-Up Utilities while I'm sitting with Gordon who is asleep. But that's beside the point. I thought I'd give it a try with a screen-reader and I am getting some very interesting if unexpected results based on what I'd been lead to believe. > > Of course, it's entirely possible that this is user error and in actual fact it probably is my fault. My accessibility experience under Windows is very limited although I would have thought this would work. > > When I press either the eft/right cursor keys or the tab/shift+tab key combinations with Window-Eyes 7.5 installed and running, all I'm hearing is "Tab Control", "Tab Control". > > What am I doing wrong? I can drive it with the mouse; but that's not the point. Again as I said I am sure this is my error. > > Lynne > > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- From lynne at mac-access.net Tue Nov 1 03:54:20 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 03:54:20 +0000 Subject: Tune-Up Utilities 2012 [Revisited] In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Dane & all I think I need to put the situation into perspective here; and then you'll see, perhaps, that your comments were just a tiny bit based on misunderstanding and, forgive me for saying so, assumption; although I'm sure no malice of forethought was present. I can count on one hand the number of times in my life I have used accessibility under Windows; and still have fingers to spare. I am trying to learn, Dane, so it's not particularly fair to assume that we're all Mr. or Mrs. Expert. :) Let's take the situation in reverse; How would it be if you were to want to learn to drive a computer with a mouse? Well; a question I recall a blind person still on this group asking me some considerable time ago; "Which way around do I hold the mouse in my hand?" I could have laughed; but that would be quite unkind. This person wasn't to know which was the left-hand button and, only by my explaining it, did he learn and subsequently manage to achieve his goal. Adversely, I am no expert with accessibility; hence my message. In fact I'm a total novice and, as somebody who can see, I'm trying to show willing; trying to learn to use an environment which is totally alien to me. Is that so very very wrong? OK; I made a mistake in first using the obvious keyboard navigation commands which many, in fact, most Windows applications use. As it happens, not this one it would appear. As for tabbing around and finding extra buttons; if that were the case I'd have seen them and found them. ;) I can actually "see", with my eyes, all of the controls. But that isn't the point; I want to learn to use it the way others do. After all, if I wanted to take the "chicken" way out, I usually would just pick up a mouse and point 'n' click my way around the thing. But no; I want to learn to use the thing the way those less fortunate than I am do. Perhaps then, I can assist in the development of environment files to help those people less fortunate than I am to use the thing the way they need too. in order to make accessibility just that little bit easier for others. For the same reasons I taught myself, with no small amount of help from a very many blind people, how to use VoiceOver on Mac OS X. I think it's fair to say that a number of people have benefitted from my efforts to learn; and I hope to achieve the same here. If I'm utterly honest I don't have a clue how to use the mouse keys at the moment in Window-Eyes, much less NVDA which I have never used. I was actually going to ask a question about NVDA itself actually; but perhaps I'd better keep my mouth shut about that one until somebody can show me. Sadly Gordon hasn't ever used it properly either I understand so we've both got to learn this together. That's part of the reason I wanted to learn to use Tune-Up Utilities actually; so that once I was / we were proficient in using the thing with Window-Eyes, we could use it as a template to start learning NVDA. But it seems that I'm making too many assumptions and going about things the wrong way; putting the cart before the horse. I apologise to the group; please disregard. Lynne On 1 Nov 2011, at 02:56, Dane Trethowan wrote: Yep, you'll hear "Tab-control", I'm not sure what's going on there but you may find extra buttons if you keep tabbing around, that's not the best way to access the software with the tab and cursor keys and I really do wish that people - not just you - would come away from the thought that to access something you use tab and cursor keys because this just doesn't hold true for every application running Windows. Thankfully all the very good screen reading software available including NVDA have methods whereby you can browse the screen and find the buttons thus being able to "click" on them and so forth. In the case of WE you use the Mouse keys to navigate many of the Tune-Up Utility screens, this is an easy way to find the buttons and the information that the utilities present. If you want better accessibility then that then the main Tune-Up Utilities interface presents a HTML Interface which you may prefer. From grtdane at internode.on.net Tue Nov 1 07:06:04 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Tue, 01 Nov 2011 18:06:04 +1100 Subject: Tune-Up Utilities 2012 [Revisited] In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4EAF9A5C.9060308@internode.on.net> Ramble away Hello Dane& all > > I think I need to put the situation into perspective here; and then you'll see, perhaps, that your comments were just a tiny bit based on misunderstanding and, forgive me for saying so, assumption; although I'm sure no malice of forethought was present. I can count on one hand the number of times in my life I have used accessibility under Windows; and still have fingers to spare. I am trying to learn, Dane, so it's not particularly fair to assume that we're all Mr. or Mrs. Expert. :) > > Let's take the situation in reverse; How would it be if you were to want to learn to drive a computer with a mouse? Well; a question I recall a blind person still on this group asking me some considerable time ago; "Which way around do I hold the mouse in my hand?" I could have laughed; but that would be quite unkind. This person wasn't to know which was the left-hand button and, only by my explaining it, did he learn and subsequently manage to achieve his goal. Adversely, I am no expert with accessibility; hence my message. In fact I'm a total novice and, as somebody who can see, I'm trying to show willing; trying to learn to use an environment which is totally alien to me. Is that so very very wrong? OK; I made a mistake in first using the obvious keyboard navigation commands which many, in fact, most Windows applications use. As it happens, not this one it would appear. As for tabbing around and finding extra buttons; if that were the case I'd have seen them and found the > m. ;) I can actually "see", with my eyes, all of the controls. But that isn't the point; I want to learn to use it the way others do. After all, if I wanted to take the "chicken" way out, I usually would just pick up a mouse and point 'n' click my way around the thing. But no; I want to learn to use the thing the way those less fortunate than I am do. Perhaps then, I can assist in the development of environment files to help those people less fortunate than I am to use the thing the way they need too. in order to make accessibility just that little bit easier for others. > > For the same reasons I taught myself, with no small amount of help from a very many blind people, how to use VoiceOver on Mac OS X. I think it's fair to say that a number of people have benefitted from my efforts to learn; and I hope to achieve the same here. > > If I'm utterly honest I don't have a clue how to use the mouse keys at the moment in Window-Eyes, much less NVDA which I have never used. I was actually going to ask a question about NVDA itself actually; but perhaps I'd better keep my mouth shut about that one until somebody can show me. > > Sadly Gordon hasn't ever used it properly either I understand so we've both got to learn this together. That's part of the reason I wanted to learn to use Tune-Up Utilities actually; so that once I was / we were proficient in using the thing with Window-Eyes, we could use it as a template to start learning NVDA. But it seems that I'm making too many assumptions and going about things the wrong way; putting the cart before the horse. > > I apologise to the group; please disregard. > > Lynne > > On 1 Nov 2011, at 02:56, Dane Trethowan wrote: > > Yep, you'll hear "Tab-control", I'm not sure what's going on there but you may find extra buttons if you keep tabbing around, that's not the best way to access the software with the tab and cursor keys and I really do wish that people - not just you - would come away from the thought that to access something you use tab and cursor keys because this just doesn't hold true for every application running Windows. > > Thankfully all the very good screen reading software available including NVDA have methods whereby you can browse the screen and find the buttons thus being able to "click" on them and so forth. > > In the case of WE you use the Mouse keys to navigate many of the Tune-Up Utility screens, this is an easy way to find the buttons and the information that the utilities present. > > If you want better accessibility then that then the main Tune-Up Utilities interface presents a HTML Interface which you may prefer. > > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- -- Dane Trethowan Sending email from his EEEPC Netbook From roger.firman at btinternet.com Tue Nov 1 07:23:54 2011 From: roger.firman at btinternet.com (Roger Firman) Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 07:23:54 -0000 Subject: Tune-Up Utilities 2012 [Revisited] with additional accessibility issues In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hello Lynne, Many thanks for writing your description about what you are wishing to achieve with this utility and the wider issues. I've added to the subject-line in the hope it will keep it topical, sorry if this is wrong. Not wishing to make a point for the sake of it, more for trying to gain further appreciation of your stated objectives, have you tried using screen reader software with speech but no screen on as part of the process? I can't begin to imagine what it would be like trying to simulate something equivalent but by means totally outside my own experience if you get what I am trying to say. I look forward to learning more of your journey. Roger. From lynne at mac-access.net Tue Nov 1 12:04:30 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 12:04:30 +0000 Subject: Tune-Up Utilities 2012; Plus accessibility In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5EBA66F4-1606-4C49-B691-C3A4B8A80495@mac-access.net> Hello Roger I plan to reply to Dane's and your own posts as each raises fair point. But I want to make this absolutely crystal clear from the start; this ins't a personal issue in any way. I have seen many many cases where these discussions have been allowed to oil over into slanging matches and I want to make it clear that I have no interest in that kind of petty debate. Not that I'm implying either your own or Dane's messages were intended as such. I'm merely expressing the wish that this discussion; regardless of who opts to join in, will remain objective and impersonal. If it does not, I shall just not continue to post on the subject. On 1 Nov 2011, at 07:23, Roger Firman wrote: ? Many thanks for writing your description about what you are wishing to achieve with this utility and the wider issues. Tune-Up is just a demo model, for want of a better description. It satisfies the purpose because it presents something of a challenge as it clearly doe not use the stander Windows interface. I have also removed the version we had installed; and have now obtained the UK English version instead. It shouldn't make a difference in theory but we will see shortly when I re-intall it. ? I've added to the subject-line in the hope it will keep it topical, sorry if this is wrong. On the contrary. We encourage members to use their judgement so there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. :) ? Not wishing to make a point for the sake of it, more for trying to gain further appreciation of your stated objectives, have you tried using screen reader software with speech but no screen on as part of the process? Absolutely, yes. I probably should have mentioned it; but I have also taken the trouble to learn Braille for the same reasons. I want to learn how these things work; and I cannot do that unless I simulate as closely as possible the conditions. ? I can't begin to imagine what it would be like trying to simulate something equivalent but by means totally outside my own experience if you get what I am trying to say. It isn't the first time Roger. I have, like my sister before me, spent 24 hours blindfolded in an effort to learn how things are. No; it isn't proper simulation and of course I knew I'd get my vision back at the end of it. But there's no other way than that. ? I look forward to learning more of your journey. Well; that remains to be seen. It became clear to me this morning that I'm starting the wrong way round. I need to learn the screen-reader first, before attempting to use other utilities alongside it. Hence my last comment about disregarding the post. Lynne From lynne at mac-access.net Tue Nov 1 12:06:36 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 12:06:36 +0000 Subject: Tune-Up Utilities 2012 [Revisited] In-Reply-To: <4EAF9A5C.9060308@internode.on.net> References: <4EAF9A5C.9060308@internode.on.net> Message-ID: <0A8471CA-81F7-48B1-8842-14DEE0869AC4@mac-access.net> Hello Dane On 1 Nov 2011, at 07:06, Dane Trethowan wrote: ? I'm not an expert and all I was trying to say was that there's more to accessing a piece of software than using the tab and cursor keys. I fully appreciate that; I simply didn't realise that this utility suite didn't possess such a keyboard interface. This is new to me; and I will try to learn. ? If you want to think of Tune-Up Utilities as being unusable then fine! I don't recall saying that. Lynne From grtdane at internode.on.net Tue Nov 1 17:36:58 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2011 04:36:58 +1100 Subject: Accessibility of Software was Tune-Up Utilities In-Reply-To: <0A8471CA-81F7-48B1-8842-14DEE0869AC4@mac-access.net> References: <4EAF9A5C.9060308@internode.on.net> <0A8471CA-81F7-48B1-8842-14DEE0869AC4@mac-access.net> Message-ID: Unfortunate as it is, most software around for Windows these days does not have a simple keyboard interface so therefore one must use the other tools a Screen Reader has to offer in order that the user is able to make the most of the software they're using or write some scripts to hide these flaws and make a near keyboard interface. As you've seen, Tune-Up Utilities is a case in point, its half usable with keyboard commands and by no means the worst offender at this sort of thing, I have software here which is reliant on the user using the JAWS cursor, mouse pad or whatever the term applying to your Screen Reading software is. Yep, some people would call that sort of software inaccessible when obviously nothing could be further from the truth, an inaccessible piece of software is exactly that, one that the user cannot use whatever! Now I'm not referring to anyone in particular here as this is a general observation. I don't think a lot of people using Screen Reading software fully appreciate just how far we've come when it comes to accessibility and perhaps some people just cannot appreciate this fact for obvious reasons. For instance when I started out using an Apple Mac, one didn't get much feedback at all with regard to what was happening, you had Microsoft Word for example and you were left to your own devices to type a document, spell check and correct that document if required and so on. If a dialogue or an alert box came up then that's all you heard, "Dialogue" and it was up to the user to examine the screen to find out what was going on. If you think that was bad then go back a further few years to the days of CP/M and Wordstar, obviously I was too young to use such a system at the time they were hugely popular but I did use one in my work some 25 years ago because the firm I worked for then saw no point in upgrading their computer system to MS DOS as the CP/M with Wordstar had worked for years! and was still working. When working with that system I got no feedback whatever, perhaps a beep every now and then to let me know that I was in caps lock but that was it, you typed your document and then used special keystrokes to examine that document, examine the screen and so on. On 01/11/2011, at 11:06 PM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: > Hello Dane > > On 1 Nov 2011, at 07:06, Dane Trethowan wrote: > > ? I'm not an expert and all I was trying to say was that there's more to accessing a piece of software than using the tab and cursor keys. > > I fully appreciate that; I simply didn't realise that this utility suite didn't possess such a keyboard interface. This is new to me; and I will try to learn. > > ? If you want to think of Tune-Up Utilities as being unusable then fine! > > I don't recall saying that. > > Lynne > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- From marrie12 at gmail.com Tue Nov 1 17:37:00 2011 From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah Alawami) Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 10:37:00 -0700 Subject: Using Bad Language On List; Stop It! In-Reply-To: <99903D2D-E15C-4AFF-A218-91657551D951@mac-access.net> References: <2FA53CF3-2A09-4A52-9FA3-2B714A026335@mac-access.net> <3E2C3C20-9B6E-4402-89F2-09ABEA36F949@gmail.com> <19518DD3-64E4-45EB-8F26-A867267E766A@mac-access.net> <9B226250-E46B-4457-BCB5-0BA741823AAA@internode.on.net> <96709CBC-6FF4-4D7F-8008-A4E7BD452579@gmail.com> <99903D2D-E15C-4AFF-A218-91657551D951@mac-access.net> Message-ID: <212C3E20-0790-492C-B5C7-18B383DCAADD@gmail.com> Here in the usa pissed off is not a bad word. I won't even begin to type the bad words i hear. Maybe in the uk is it but here in the usa it is not a bad use of language at all. Maybe in the 90s it was but times have changed and we must all learn to role with the punches. If the fcc does not bleep it out then i have the freedom to say what pissed off or pissed or any form of the word. If that offends someone there is always the del key or the ignore feature in some mail clients on windows and linux. I firmly believe that the list mods are in the wrong here and i am not afraid to say what i think, again. I rarely get mad but this is ridiculous. I'm going by words here in the usa and what i said is by no means offensive or bad language or rude. I know there are people on this list in the usa who will agree with me here and i wish they would chime in, again. Lol! take care all. Off to go tackle an inaccessible website and contact some devs, and write 3 speeches to give in about 2 days. See you all when and if I come up for air. Take care all Sarah Alawami If you need an edit done on a small project go to http://music.marrie.org/master.html for more info. If you need to contact me my info is below. MSN and AIM: marrie12 at gmail.com website: http://music.marrie.org Podcast: http://tffp.marrie.org/podcast youtube: http://youtube.com/marrie125 On Oct 30, 2011, at 9:42 PM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: > Sarah & all > > I mention Sarah specifically because this warning relates to her email. However, it's a good opportunity to make myself very clear. > > Would you please desist from using bad language on this list. It is against list policy. Whilst that kind of talk might be acceptable to some, it is possible that there may be young people viewing this group and we would not like any individual to risk our reputation. > > Repeated abuse of list policy will result in removal. Everybody was sent a copy of that document when they joined so "I didn't know" won't be accepted as an excuse. If you didn't read it that's not our fault. > > Lynne > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- From martin at x.it.okstate.edu Tue Nov 1 18:24:23 2011 From: martin at x.it.okstate.edu (Martin McCormick) Date: Tue, 01 Nov 2011 13:24:23 -0500 Subject: Accessibility of Software was Tune-Up Utilities Message-ID: <201111011824.pA1IONQe062339@x.it.okstate.edu> Things have certainly come a long, long way in some respects and are annoyingly behind where they should be in others. I first put my hands on a computer 32 years ago with the Apple II and my first screen reader was an assembly language routine taken from a magazine project that intercepted the output to the screen and turned it in to Morse Code. That was fine and dandy except it is very slow. I was running it at about 15 words per minute and the other problem is that Morse does not have a character for every single ASCII character so many punctuation marks did not produce a proper Morse character making it hard to list out programs accurately. The next interface a few months later was a module one could buy from Telesensory Systems Inc. which spelled every word and did provide more punctuation marks. That little jewel cost about $200 in 1979 Dollars and all the voltages were odd because it was actually designed for a different sort of connection to a computer than the normal TTL 5-volt logic that was common then. Fortunately, they did provide a description of how to shift the levels to make it work on CMOS and TTL logic so I built an interface that one could plug in to a parallel printer port on the Apple and it worked. For even more fun, the speech board had a "Busy" line but the Apple Parallel printer card needed a strobe line which was normally low and strobed high to acknowledge each character received. The printers of the day usually had both so I had to build a pulse generator that produced the needed pulse when the Busy line on the speech board came up. I used that setup until the mid 80's when I began to use an IBM P.C. so it did work fairly decently if you like having everything s p e l l e d o u t. Then, there was the growing world of commercial software for both the Apple and the IBM that used direct screen writes which meant that all those neat intercept routines were useless. I wouldn't want to go back to those days for anything as almost anything we do these days is light years ahead of all that improvisation. I still say, "Shame on Microsoft" for not having any real system for dealing with I/O. There was no excuse for that and my mind is closed on that point. Unix-like operating systems are certainly not perfect, but accessibility is so much easier when you know where to look for the data (a small smile.) Screen readers for Windows must be infinitely more difficult to build because they basically have to ferret out non-graphical data anywhere it hides. In the Mac and other Unix-based systems, there are rules that developers must follow if they want their programs to work. In Windows, it's Tuesday just after a new moon in November so Hmm, what can we do today to make it work? Tomorrow is another day and we'll worry about that then. I am definitely exaggerating, but I am amazed it works at all. It's like patches on top of patches held together with chewing gum. From lynne at mac-access.net Tue Nov 1 18:40:27 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 18:40:27 +0000 Subject: Using Bad Language On List; Stop It! In-Reply-To: <212C3E20-0790-492C-B5C7-18B383DCAADD@gmail.com> References: <2FA53CF3-2A09-4A52-9FA3-2B714A026335@mac-access.net> <3E2C3C20-9B6E-4402-89F2-09ABEA36F949@gmail.com> <19518DD3-64E4-45EB-8F26-A867267E766A@mac-access.net> <9B226250-E46B-4457-BCB5-0BA741823AAA@internode.on.net> <96709CBC-6FF4-4D7F-8008-A4E7BD452579@gmail.com> <99903D2D-E15C-4AFF-A218-91657551D951@mac-access.net> <212C3E20-0790-492C-B5C7-18B383DCAADD@gmail.com> Message-ID: Sarah Let me make it clear. That expression is banned. I don't care where anybody is; this list is hosted in the UK and we make the rules. If members don't like it, they are free to leave. That expression is banned. Lynne From lynne at mac-access.net Tue Nov 1 18:53:36 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 18:53:36 +0000 Subject: Accessibility of Software was Tune-Up Utilities In-Reply-To: References: <4EAF9A5C.9060308@internode.on.net> <0A8471CA-81F7-48B1-8842-14DEE0869AC4@mac-access.net> Message-ID: Hello Dane I'm sorry but you've mistaken what I said in my original post. Let me make myself clear; I did "NOT", I repeat, I did "NOT" say anything was inaccessible. I said that it was inaccessible to me, because I don't know how to use the screen-reader. Please remember that not all of us have always used screen-readers and, therefore, not all of us have the experience you do. To me with vision, the lack of a old-style keyboard interface is merely a minor inconvenience. But I was trying to look at this from the perspective of a screen-reader user. I got a shock! That was all. I did not in any of my previous posts say anything about anything being "inaccessible". So I'll say once more time for all the group to read. Tune-Up Utilities is different, but to most of you, I'm sure it is perfectly accessible. To me, however, as a newcomer to NVDA and a virtual new comer to screen-reading software in general under Windows, it was a culture shock; and that is all I was saying. I then went on to state that perhaps I need to go away and learn to use the screen-reader first, then learn to use Tune-up Utilities with a screen-reader. I don't dispute any of your comments regarding accessibility. I am a novice, inexperienced in that side of things under Windows. I'm going to go away and learn; then when I learn I will perhaps be able to discuss this with the group in terms of accessibility. Lynne From grtdane at internode.on.net Tue Nov 1 18:54:19 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2011 05:54:19 +1100 Subject: Accessibility of Software was Tune-Up Utilities In-Reply-To: <201111011824.pA1IONQe062339@x.it.okstate.edu> References: <201111011824.pA1IONQe062339@x.it.okstate.edu> Message-ID: <80A5B71C-E69F-4DFA-873C-41283E30F5CF@internode.on.net> Interesting and it just goes to show that accessibility doesn't necessare refer to speech or Braille. Now that I think about it I do know of people who have used Opticons to access computer screens, indeed I know of someone who uses a "Top Braille" device to access screens and that's a form of accessibility is it not? So long as you access the information you require to allow you to get the task done, read the sign or whatever then fine! mission accomplished . I used an Apple 2/E which I still have here though I used speech with that machine, I used an Echo 2/+ synthesiser card and I thought the whole thing was brilliant at the time, looking back we certainly did a lot given the technology at our disposal and the limited resources. The software I used worked on different principles to today's Screen Reading software, the software was designed for accessibility rather than designed hoping for other applications to be accessible. I used the Wordtalk word processor for example and that's probably the most accessible software I've ever used and why? Because it was designed to be so. I also used a Eureka A4 computer which was designed along the same lines, everything in it worked because it was designed to be accessible. On 02/11/2011, at 5:24 AM, Martin McCormick wrote: > Things have certainly come a long, long way in some > respects and are annoyingly behind where they should be in > others. > > I first put my hands on a computer 32 years ago with the > Apple II and my first screen reader was an assembly language > routine taken from a magazine project that intercepted the > output to the screen and turned it in to Morse Code. That was > fine and dandy except it is very slow. I was running it at about > 15 words per minute and the other problem is that Morse does not > have a character for every single ASCII character so many > punctuation marks did not produce a proper Morse character > making it hard to list out programs accurately. > > The next interface a few months later was a module one > could buy from Telesensory Systems Inc. which spelled every word > and did provide more punctuation marks. > > That little jewel cost about $200 in 1979 Dollars and > all the voltages were odd because it was actually designed for a > different sort of connection to a computer than the normal TTL > 5-volt logic that was common then. > > Fortunately, they did provide a description of how to > shift the levels to make it work on CMOS and TTL logic so I > built an interface that one could plug in to a parallel printer > port on the Apple and it worked. > > For even more fun, the speech board had a "Busy" line > but the Apple Parallel printer card needed a strobe line which > was normally low and strobed high to acknowledge each character > received. The printers of the day usually had both so I had to > build a pulse generator that produced the needed pulse when the > Busy line on the speech board came up. > > I used that setup until the mid 80's when I began to use > an IBM P.C. so it did work fairly decently if you like having > everything s p e l l e d o u t. > > Then, there was the growing world of commercial software > for both the Apple and the IBM that used direct screen writes > which meant that all those neat intercept routines were useless. > > I wouldn't want to go back to those days for anything as > almost anything we do these days is light years ahead of all > that improvisation. > > I still say, "Shame on Microsoft" for not having any > real system for dealing with I/O. There was no excuse for that > and my mind is closed on that point. > > Unix-like operating systems are certainly not perfect, > but accessibility is so much easier when you know where to look > for the data (a small smile.) > > Screen readers for Windows must be infinitely more > difficult to build because they basically have to ferret out > non-graphical data anywhere it hides. > > In the Mac and other Unix-based systems, there are rules > that developers must follow if they want their programs to work. > In Windows, it's Tuesday just after a new moon in November so > Hmm, what can we do today to make it work? Tomorrow is another > day and we'll worry about that then. > > I am definitely exaggerating, but I am amazed it works at > all. It's like patches on top of patches held together with > chewing gum. > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- From gordon at mac-access.net Tue Nov 1 19:28:09 2011 From: gordon at mac-access.net (Gordon Smith) Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 19:28:09 +0000 Subject: My Earliest Experiences With Accessibility In-Reply-To: <80A5B71C-E69F-4DFA-873C-41283E30F5CF@internode.on.net> References: <201111011824.pA1IONQe062339@x.it.okstate.edu> <80A5B71C-E69F-4DFA-873C-41283E30F5CF@internode.on.net> Message-ID: In my own case my first screen-reader was home-made. Im proud to say that it was written by yours truly. It was a little piece of 6502 assembler code which slotted into the top of user RAM at location &679 on a Commodore C64 computer. It, ilk the BBC model B, B+ and Master (made by Acorn Computer) Inc., used the 6502 CPU and variants thereof. All my own screen-reader did was dumped the contents of the text buffer to the C64's user port. On that port we had a small interface which converted the RS232 signal which formed one configuration of the user port, into a parallel signal which the particular synthesiser that I was using back in 1983/4 used. The synthesiser in question was made by Braid Systems in Canada. It used the old Texas Instruments speech logic with robotic sounding speech. But it was far more intelligible than, for example, the disgusting voice which NVDA uses by default. That screen-reader was my first ever dabble at assembler programming in any language and while the screen-reader gave the user little in the way of interaction, it worked and it did enable me to use RTTY, (radio tele-type) on HF and VHF to communicate with other radio amateurs and also to listen to the exciting world of organisations such as Roiters (sorry for the spelling) and other news organisations who used to and, I believe sometimes, still do) use RTTY as a means of communications. RTTY was, of course, very slow But then along came the next means of communications which, as you'll gather from its name, was designed by radio amateurs. It was called "Amtor", ("A, M, T, O, R"). That protocol was soon adopted by large news organisations because it offered the potential for faster and more reliable means of communications. For instance, if a news organisation used HF for RTYTY signals and the signal should fade due to atmospherics, that was it. There was a gap, and no error checking. Amtor, on the other hand, relied on the exchange of an error check packet after every packet or group of characters and it was far more reliable. IN due course, however, Amtor was replaced by the even more versatile and faster "AX.25" protocol, known in the radio world as "Packet Radio" Packet was hugely popular amongst amateurs and professionals alike because it allowed you to exchange information not just in ASCII but also binary and at speeds of up to 9600 BPS via radio over very great distances. Anyway I'm now babbling and this is the first message I've written since getting back home. Gordon From marrie12 at gmail.com Tue Nov 1 19:43:55 2011 From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah Alawami) Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 12:43:55 -0700 Subject: Subjects Move Virtual Chopper with Thoughts Message-ID: this is an interesting 1 minute long episode on what's going on in the word of technology. In this ep scientist use EEG tech to move virtual objects in a 3d environment. http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1672188/Subjects%20Move%20Virtual%20Chopper%20with%20Thoughts.mp3 From martin at x.it.okstate.edu Tue Nov 1 20:04:30 2011 From: martin at x.it.okstate.edu (Martin McCormick) Date: Tue, 01 Nov 2011 15:04:30 -0500 Subject: My Earliest Experiences With Accessibility Message-ID: <201111012004.pA1K4UKf062894@x.it.okstate.edu> Way to go! I can relate to all of that. I didn't do what you did, but when I got an Apple II of my own, I built a decoder that used a NE565 Phase-locked loop and was able to decode 300-baud ASCII. There were some radio amateurs in the area who used it like RTTY and would send messages back and forth to each other. There was also one of the FM radio stations that put 300-baud ASCII on to their 67-KHZ subcarrier and I could decode that. It turned out to be commodity stock data such as gold prices, grain futures and the like. Of course, I could not use those data for anything because that service was based on subscription and I would have been stealing, but the project was interesting to get it all working and play with it. I had to write a 6502-based driver to decode the serial data because my serial card would choke on some of the control characters that came across. The Apple could barely keep up with 300 baud. Anyway, it sounds like you probably had a really good time also. Gordon Smith writes: > In my own case my first screen-reader was home-made. Im proud to say that > it was written by yours truly. > > It was a little piece of 6502 assembler code which slotted into the top > of user RAM at location &679 on a Commodore C64 computer. > > It, ilk the BBC model B, B+ and Master (made by Acorn Computer) Inc., > used the 6502 CPU and variants thereof. > > All my own screen-reader did was dumped the contents of the text buffer > to the C64's user port. On that port we had a small interface which > converted the RS232 signal which formed one configuration of the user > port, into a parallel signal which the particular synthesiser that I was > using back in 1983/4 used. From gordon at mac-access.net Tue Nov 1 21:43:40 2011 From: gordon at mac-access.net (Gordon Smith) Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 21:43:40 +0000 Subject: Radio Amateur In-Reply-To: <201111012004.pA1K4UKf062894@x.it.okstate.edu> References: <201111012004.pA1K4UKf062894@x.it.okstate.edu> Message-ID: <3A797987-F242-4668-A63C-911BBE200755@mac-access.net> Hi Martin Although I guess I don't talk about it much these days, it is great to be able to add a little to this, good to meet you my fellow radio amateur. For the sake of interest, if there is any, my callsign is: "G0BQC", that is, in case your synthesiser didn't read it properly, "G", "0", "B", "Z", "C". I took my radio amateur examination, (known at that time in the United Kingdom as City And Guilds paper 765, parts A and B), back at the end of 1982 and I got my B-class license in February/March of 1983. I tinkered around on VHF/UHF for a couple of years and in April o of 1985 the UK government finally woke up a little bit and moved to allow class B licensees to practise and learn Morse code on certain parts of the 2 meter band. I started learning in April of 1985 and on 6 June of that year I took my Morse test and passed. Well, to be honest, an idiot could pass that test. You only have to do More transmit and receive of alpha/numeric characters with the odd punctuation for 3 minutes at 12 WPM. I was actually given the opportunity to take the test like a disabled person but I declined. i didn't want people being able to say that I cheated and got in through the back door. So I went up to Colour Coats CoastGuard station in Northumberland on the North-East coast of England and took the test alongside my able-bodied friends. To my intense embarrassment, the worst happened. The friend who I travelled up with failed his test, as he got too nervous and couldn't string two characters together. I passed, and it made the drive home very awkward. I didn't for a second want to gloat, that would have been very cruel. Yet I felt like whopping and it wasn't until I got home that I was able to vent my feelings and then hurry off to complete my A-Class license application. My old call sign, "G", "1"", "F", "M", "E", is already reserved for lynne when she gets around to taking her exam. You're allowed to do that over here in the UK, so we thought, why not! Anyway, I had great fun on HF for a while. But the novelty soon wore off and I discovered that I got far more of a buzz out of the technology and VHF/UHF chat side of the hobby than I did the so-called DX side of things. That is still the case, although I won't deny that I still have a couple of friends in Christchurch, Melbourne, Perth and Sydney who I met due to contacts on HF. My HF days came to an abrupt en when my home-made trapped multi-band dipole met a sad end in a huge storm. The wind tore it apart. I just didn't bother replacing it because my hF radio was feeling distinctly unwell anyway, and it still is. I still have my VHF/UHF multi-mode radio and if there are any amateurs on list who would like a chat on something like Echonet some time, I'd love to meet up. Gordon On 1 Nov 2011, at 20:04, Martin McCormick wrote: Way to go! I can relate to all of that. I didn't do what you did, but when I got an Apple II of my own, I built a decoder that used a NE565 Phase-locked loop and was able to decode 300-baud ASCII. There were some radio amateurs in the area who used it like RTTY and would send messages back and forth to each other. From tsiegel at softcon.com Wed Nov 2 02:16:25 2011 From: tsiegel at softcon.com (Travis Siegel) Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 22:16:25 -0400 Subject: Tune-Up Utilities 2012 [Revisited] In-Reply-To: <0A8471CA-81F7-48B1-8842-14DEE0869AC4@mac-access.net> References: <4EAF9A5C.9060308@internode.on.net> <0A8471CA-81F7-48B1-8842-14DEE0869AC4@mac-access.net> Message-ID: The simple fact of the matter is that most windows software does use tab and arrow keys to access things, so when one doesn't, it feels broken to folks who are used to the tab/arrow approach. Much like apple tries to enforce certain standards for developers working on osx, because folks get used to the way things are supposed to work, and when they don't work that way, it causes confusion. Many developers have run into this when they neglected the apple way of doing things, and went their own way. I recall one particular instance, where the developer did such a horrible job, nobody bought the software,. I have no idea what happened after that, if he fixed it or not, but when folks were asked why they didn't use the software, the overwhelming response was that it didn't work like a mac app should. Folks get used to things, and if you're going to do things differently, it really should be for some reason other than I felt like it. :) From lynne at mac-access.net Wed Nov 2 11:26:47 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2011 11:26:47 +0000 Subject: The Changing World Of Windows In-Reply-To: References: <4EAF9A5C.9060308@internode.on.net> <0A8471CA-81F7-48B1-8842-14DEE0869AC4@mac-access.net> Message-ID: hello Travis To a point, I see where you're coming from. But to be absolutely fair, there are actually now many Windows applications which do not use the old style of interface. I have been doing a lot of reading since my initial post, as I'm staying home a lot at the moment for personal reasons which i won't go into here. But getting back to the point. I think I jumped the gun a little with my initial post. I was a bit shocked by the interface, that is true. But I haven't used Windows much over the last couple of years and I clearly hadn't appreciated just how much things have changed. Change is necessary, if we want to avoid stagnation. So to be fair, Dane is quite right when he says that people need to move with the times if they want to get the most out of their system. And as I said, it seems that the old way of doing things is now disappearing just as the interface of Windows itself is now radically different. For instance the old menu bar is gone; replaced by a tree view type of interface which contains all of your options and functions in a multi-screen environment. Visually the same is true of Tune-Up Utilities 2012 and it just took me by surprise because I had kind of expected the old style to be present when a screen-reader is loaded. So actually, in all fairness, the fault was mine in a way because I did not anticipate the change. I am still struggling with this thing from an accessibility perspective and, since I don't have any other help at the moment, because nobody is able, it seems, to assist me with the keyboard layout of the screen-reader, I'm going to have to wait until Gordon is up to showing mere how it works. I'm sure he will be able to figure it out. My problem is that I simply don't understand the screen-reader in this configuration. We are using a NetBook; and the keyboard layout of the screen-reader seems to need changing from the default; but I don't know how to do it. The last time I asked accessibility questions regarding software here I got my proverbial head bitten off. So I will wait. But to get back to the original point you raised, change is coming to Windows whether people like it or not; and we just have to accept it. Windows 7, for instance, is nothing like Windows XP in appearance. Lynne On 2 Nov 2011, at 02:16, Travis Siegel wrote: The simple fact of the matter is that most windows software does use tab and arrow keys to access things, so when one doesn't, it feels broken to folks who are used to the tab/arrow approach. Much like apple tries to enforce certain standards for developers working on osx, because folks get used to the way things are supposed to work, and when they don't work that way, it causes confusion. Many developers have run into this when they neglected the apple way of doing things, and went their own way. I recall one particular instance, where the developer did such a horrible job, nobody bought the software,. I have no idea what happened after that, if he fixed it or not, but when folks were asked why they didn't use the software, the overwhelming response was that it didn't work like a mac app should. Folks get used to things, and if you're going to do things differently, it really should be for some reason other than I felt like it. :) From roger.firman at btinternet.com Wed Nov 2 12:35:07 2011 From: roger.firman at btinternet.com (Roger Firman) Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2011 12:35:07 -0000 Subject: Screenreader documentation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Lynne, Am I correct in recalling that you have downloaded NVDA as the screenreader software? As a result of the discussions about NVDA I decided to download it yesterday and as yet know little about it. My thought is does the documentation answer any of your queries? Roger. From lynne at mac-access.net Wed Nov 2 13:29:44 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2011 13:29:44 +0000 Subject: Screenreader documentation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Roger On 2 Nov 2011, at 12:35, Roger Firman wrote: ? Am I correct in recalling that you have downloaded NVDA as the screenreader software? Not quite. I have it as part of the Infovox 3.0 Inkey voice manager. ? As a result of the discussions about NVDA I decided to download it yesterday and as yet know little about it. ? My thought is does the documentation answer any of your queries? I think you've misunderstood me Roger. The primary reader is Window-Eyes, not NVDA. That said I do plan to try NVDA as well when I manage to find the time. I frequently find that documentation is unnecessary; but I totally accept that in the case of a sophisticated piece of software such as a screen-reader, it is essential. So yes Roger, I do plan to review the documentation. Lynne From chris.hallsworth at techno-chat.net Wed Nov 2 16:23:04 2011 From: chris.hallsworth at techno-chat.net (chris hallsworth) Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2011 16:23:04 +0000 Subject: Creating a ringtone Message-ID: <4EB16E68.5020200@techno-chat.net> I have copied and pasted below the instructions for creating a ringtone using the Windows version of iTunes. This is what I have written myself and it was tried and tested before that. So I know it works. Enjoy! Creating a ringtone 1. Open iTunes. 2. Press alt-f, a to open the add to library dialogue box. 3. Browse to the file you wish to make a ringtone from, and click open. 4. Press F6 until focus is in the music list. 5. Select the newly added file, right click and choose get info. 6. Focus to the row of tabs, then right arrow until you hear options tab. 7. Tab to the end time edit box, delete what's in there and type 0:30. Later on you will see that the aac version of the file will be 30 seconds in length. 8. Click ok. 9. Right click and choose create aac version.10. Select the newly created aac version, right click and choose show in Windows Explorer. 11. Change the file extension from m4a to m4r. 12. Click yes. 13. Back in iTunes, delete the file from the library simply by pressing the delete key. Choose remove when asked. 14. Press alt-f, a to open the add to library dialogue box. 15. Browse to the m4r file and click open. 16. You can see that instead of it appearing in music, a new item appears in the sources tree ringtones. Your new ringtone will be in there. 17. Go ahead and sync your iPhone. 18. Enjoy your new ringtone! From lynne at mac-access.net Wed Nov 2 16:57:58 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2011 16:57:58 +0000 Subject: Creating a ringtone In-Reply-To: <4EB16E68.5020200@techno-chat.net> References: <4EB16E68.5020200@techno-chat.net> Message-ID: <5501B759-FE03-439E-9C46-AF39B93D2123@mac-access.net> hello Chris Not for a second disputing what you wrote; but surely there has to be a cleaner way than that of accomplishing this task. Isn't there a "Save as Ringtone" option in the Windows version of iTunes? Wouldn't that simplify this as it seems a very messy process. Actually I have been giving some thought to making us a couple of custom ringtones so I might just get out the NetBook and investigate this to see if there's a cleaner way. Please don't take any of my below comments as a criticism or a snipe; they're meant as neither. Again; I don't doubt your findings. I'm just surprised that it has to be so sloppy. Lynne On 2 Nov 2011, at 16:23, chris hallsworth wrote: I have copied and pasted below the instructions for creating a ringtone using the Windows version of iTunes. This is what I have written myself and it was tried and tested before that. So I know it works. Enjoy! From chris.hallsworth at techno-chat.net Wed Nov 2 17:01:23 2011 From: chris.hallsworth at techno-chat.net (chris hallsworth) Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2011 17:01:23 +0000 Subject: Creating a ringtone In-Reply-To: <5501B759-FE03-439E-9C46-AF39B93D2123@mac-access.net> References: <4EB16E68.5020200@techno-chat.net> <5501B759-FE03-439E-9C46-AF39B93D2123@mac-access.net> Message-ID: <4EB17763.6080109@techno-chat.net> Thanks for the comments, but I didn't see a save as ringtone option anywhere. If someone can investigate, please do and keep us updated. I agree it's long winded what I have put, and there sure has to be a cleaner way. But for now this seems to be the method I have found. On 02/11/2011 16:57, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: > hello Chris > > Not for a second disputing what you wrote; but surely there has to be a cleaner way than that of accomplishing this task. Isn't there a "Save as Ringtone" option in the Windows version of iTunes? Wouldn't that simplify this as it seems a very messy process. > > Actually I have been giving some thought to making us a couple of custom ringtones so I might just get out the NetBook and investigate this to see if there's a cleaner way. Please don't take any of my below comments as a criticism or a snipe; they're meant as neither. Again; I don't doubt your findings. I'm just surprised that it has to be so sloppy. > > Lynne > > On 2 Nov 2011, at 16:23, chris hallsworth wrote: > > I have copied and pasted below the instructions for creating a ringtone using the Windows version of iTunes. This is what I have written myself and it was tried and tested before that. So I know it works. Enjoy! > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- > From gordon at mac-access.net Wed Nov 2 17:07:35 2011 From: gordon at mac-access.net (Gordon Smith) Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2011 17:07:35 +0000 Subject: Creating a ringtone In-Reply-To: <4EB17763.6080109@techno-chat.net> References: <4EB16E68.5020200@techno-chat.net> <5501B759-FE03-439E-9C46-AF39B93D2123@mac-access.net> <4EB17763.6080109@techno-chat.net> Message-ID: <023BF043-D758-4F5D-A7D6-90874E4A8432@mac-access.net> Hi Chris Just to add a little to Lynne' comments, and to this. There are actually free programmes out there for both Mac and Windows that will create ringtones from user files with a couple of clicks or key presses. I'll work with Lynne now that I am back into something like working condition, and we'll see if there's a way within iTunes for Windows. But as you quite rightly say, one must make the best of what one has. Gordon On 2 Nov 2011, at 17:01, chris hallsworth wrote: Thanks for the comments, but I didn't see a save as ringtone option anywhere. If someone can investigate, please do and keep us updated. I agree it's long winded what I have put, and there sure has to be a cleaner way. But for now this seems to be the method I have found. From chris.hallsworth at techno-chat.net Wed Nov 2 17:36:51 2011 From: chris.hallsworth at techno-chat.net (chris hallsworth) Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2011 17:36:51 +0000 Subject: Creating a ringtone In-Reply-To: <023BF043-D758-4F5D-A7D6-90874E4A8432@mac-access.net> References: <4EB16E68.5020200@techno-chat.net> <5501B759-FE03-439E-9C46-AF39B93D2123@mac-access.net> <4EB17763.6080109@techno-chat.net> <023BF043-D758-4F5D-A7D6-90874E4A8432@mac-access.net> Message-ID: <4EB17FB3.8090308@techno-chat.net> Ok I have tried iRinger. It is very nice but when I open it an effects panel is displayed. When I alt-tab the main iRinger window appears but the effects panel has gone. So don't quite understand it I don't think. I got a ringtone out of it. So let's hope my iPhone will accept it. On 02/11/2011 17:07, Gordon Smith wrote: > Hi Chris > > Just to add a little to Lynne' comments, and to this. There are actually free programmes out there for both Mac and Windows that will create ringtones from user files with a couple of clicks or key presses. I'll work with Lynne now that I am back into something like working condition, and we'll see if there's a way within iTunes for Windows. But as you quite rightly say, one must make the best of what one has. > > Gordon > > > On 2 Nov 2011, at 17:01, chris hallsworth wrote: > > Thanks for the comments, but I didn't see a save as ringtone option anywhere. If someone can investigate, please do and keep us updated. I agree it's long winded what I have put, and there sure has to be a cleaner way. But for now this seems to be the method I have found. > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- > From lynne at mac-access.net Wed Nov 2 18:27:39 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2011 18:27:39 +0000 Subject: Creating a ringtone In-Reply-To: <4EB17FB3.8090308@techno-chat.net> References: <4EB16E68.5020200@techno-chat.net> <5501B759-FE03-439E-9C46-AF39B93D2123@mac-access.net> <4EB17763.6080109@techno-chat.net> <023BF043-D758-4F5D-A7D6-90874E4A8432@mac-access.net> <4EB17FB3.8090308@techno-chat.net> Message-ID: Hello Chris I haven't used the program; but just a guess. Look under the View menu and see if the effects or FX panel is there. Lynne On 2 Nov 2011, at 17:36, chris hallsworth wrote: Ok I have tried iRinger. It is very nice but when I open it an effects panel is displayed. When I alt-tab the main iRinger window appears but the effects panel has gone. So don't quite understand it I don't think. I got a ringtone out of it. So let's hope my iPhone will accept it. From chris.hallsworth at techno-chat.net Wed Nov 2 19:28:40 2011 From: chris.hallsworth at techno-chat.net (chris hallsworth) Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2011 19:28:40 +0000 Subject: Creating a ringtone In-Reply-To: References: <4EB16E68.5020200@techno-chat.net> <5501B759-FE03-439E-9C46-AF39B93D2123@mac-access.net> <4EB17763.6080109@techno-chat.net> <023BF043-D758-4F5D-A7D6-90874E4A8432@mac-access.net> <4EB17FB3.8090308@techno-chat.net> Message-ID: <4EB199E8.1020005@techno-chat.net> There's no menu. There are just buttons plus a system menu with move, close, etc. On 02/11/2011 18:27, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: > Hello Chris > > I haven't used the program; but just a guess. Look under the View menu and see if the effects or FX panel is there. > > Lynne > > On 2 Nov 2011, at 17:36, chris hallsworth wrote: > > Ok I have tried iRinger. It is very nice but when I open it an effects panel is displayed. When I alt-tab the main iRinger window appears but the effects panel has gone. So don't quite understand it I don't think. I got a ringtone out of it. So let's hope my iPhone will accept it. > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- > From lynne at mac-access.net Wed Nov 2 19:36:16 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2011 19:36:16 +0000 Subject: Creating a ringtone In-Reply-To: <4EB199E8.1020005@techno-chat.net> References: <4EB16E68.5020200@techno-chat.net> <5501B759-FE03-439E-9C46-AF39B93D2123@mac-access.net> <4EB17763.6080109@techno-chat.net> <023BF043-D758-4F5D-A7D6-90874E4A8432@mac-access.net> <4EB17FB3.8090308@techno-chat.net> <4EB199E8.1020005@techno-chat.net> Message-ID: Hello Chris Right; another programme which shows why Microsoft doesn't care what developers do with their source. I'm sure there are others you could use. Lynne On 2 Nov 2011, at 19:28, chris hallsworth wrote: ? There's no menu. There are just buttons plus a system menu with move, close, etc. From chris.hallsworth at techno-chat.net Wed Nov 2 20:02:30 2011 From: chris.hallsworth at techno-chat.net (chris hallsworth) Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2011 20:02:30 +0000 Subject: Creating a ringtone In-Reply-To: References: <4EB16E68.5020200@techno-chat.net> <5501B759-FE03-439E-9C46-AF39B93D2123@mac-access.net> <4EB17763.6080109@techno-chat.net> <023BF043-D758-4F5D-A7D6-90874E4A8432@mac-access.net> <4EB17FB3.8090308@techno-chat.net> <4EB199E8.1020005@techno-chat.net> Message-ID: <4EB1A1D6.9070706@techno-chat.net> If you know of any, please let me know. I tried iPhone Ringtone Maker, but that is not accessible at all. Thanks! On 02/11/2011 19:36, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: > Hello Chris > > Right; another programme which shows why Microsoft doesn't care what developers do with their source. I'm sure there are others you could use. > > Lynne > > On 2 Nov 2011, at 19:28, chris hallsworth wrote: > > ? There's no menu. There are just buttons plus a system menu with move, close, etc. > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- > From lynne at mac-access.net Wed Nov 2 20:37:07 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2011 20:37:07 +0000 Subject: Creating a ringtone In-Reply-To: <4EB1A1D6.9070706@techno-chat.net> References: <4EB16E68.5020200@techno-chat.net> <5501B759-FE03-439E-9C46-AF39B93D2123@mac-access.net> <4EB17763.6080109@techno-chat.net> <023BF043-D758-4F5D-A7D6-90874E4A8432@mac-access.net> <4EB17FB3.8090308@techno-chat.net> <4EB199E8.1020005@techno-chat.net> <4EB1A1D6.9070706@techno-chat.net> Message-ID: <5F472DF5-EA1A-4C15-B514-EC594CEA8A46@mac-access.net> Hello Chris Many audio editors can handle the creation of ringtones. I gather there's really nothing special about the files; apparently you can just rename some audio content; although I am not quite sure which format they are. Lynne On 2 Nov 2011, at 20:02, chris hallsworth wrote: If you know of any, please let me know. I tried iPhone Ringtone Maker, but that is not accessible at all. Thanks! On 02/11/2011 19:36, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: > Hello Chris > > Right; another programme which shows why Microsoft doesn't care what developers do with their source. I'm sure there are others you could use. > > Lynne > > On 2 Nov 2011, at 19:28, chris hallsworth wrote: > > ? There's no menu. There are just buttons plus a system menu with move, close, etc. > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- > ======================================= The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html Or: you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: --------------------------------------- From lynne at mac-access.net Thu Nov 3 01:41:01 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 01:41:01 +0000 Subject: Hardware Specs Of A Machine Message-ID: <346D30C3-87B1-4D4E-A8DF-D9B1C5C498A3@mac-access.net> Hello everybody First of all, I want to apologise for what might turn into a bit of a negative message. It really is not meant that way but I cannot think of any other way of putting this over in such a way that I get the point over. We are becoming more rapidly frustrated with Windows 7 Ultimate on our little Asus NetBook and I'm looking for the correct specifications for components in the machine. We changed some memory and I'm not sure whether we have used the correct module. That in itself may have been a mistake; but I could always replace the original one. Currently, we are using a DDR3 PC1067 MHZ 204-pin SDIM module to bring the machine up to 2GB from its pitiful 1GB default. However, I can't see the specs of the module we removed; it's covered by a manufacturer's label and if I remove it that is the end of the Hitachi manufacturer's warranty on the module. We have some PC1366 MHZ (I think it is) memory sitting in a box waiting to be used. But I dare not try it until I know what the machine is supposed to have installed. I don't particularly want to do it any permanent damage although Gordon says it would just slow down the bus speed if it were wrong. The machine itself is an Asus 1015PEM NetBook which has a 2.0 GHZ Intel? Core2 Duo processor. The specs I do have for the machine are, to be honest, pathetic really, and I have made a huge error of judgement I think when I bought this for Gordon. There is no specifications sheet in the idiots guide that came with it; and yes, I did look right through it. I call it an idiots guide because it really is that; apart, to be fair, from the detailed description of the system recovery procedure which is helpful; nobody could deny that. It was supposed to be for Braille and DAISY production under Windows natively. But the machine itself is so darn slow its unbelievable and almost unusable. That is why we opted to try a memory upgrade. But it made little or no difference. Our virtual machines run faster and I'm talking here about the 32-bit version in both cases. The 64-bit VM's we have on our quad-core Macs blow it out of the water. I have tried extensive Google searches for this information but all I can find is "come to us and buy this machine at the lowest price in the UK" from every place I look. I hate to sound negative but at the moment I'm really despondent about this as it set me back a lot of money I can't afford to waste. And no, it isn't all bad. :) I would love to have tried the 64-bit version of Windows 7 or even the 64-bit developer preview of Windows 8 which is available to Gordon as an MSDN member. But I just don't dare. It has a recovery partition and from what I have read it would be zapped if I did. Time to use Image for Windows when we get it working right. Another very large, although not insurmountable problem with the machine though is its total lack of Bluetooth support. But again, to be totally fair, that really is my fault as I should have noticed the lack of the Bluetooth symbol. If does have some good bits though; the keyboard is quite nice, and the display has anti-glare technology which is nice because it makes it easy on the eyes. It also has light sensitivity in it so that the displays brightness changes to suit the ambient light conditions which is a really nice feature. So please don't think I'm writing it off; it is potentially a good machine if we can make it more workable. Anyway if anybody else has a way of determining the actual specs for this I'd be grateful. I'd rather not try this memory until I know. I plan to write shortly about something else we recently acquired which will probably be of great interest to anybody with an ear for Windows accessibility. It's absolutely wonderful, and a fraction of the price of traditional Windows accessibility tools. Thanks in advance. Lynne From grtdane at internode.on.net Thu Nov 3 02:56:17 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Thu, 03 Nov 2011 13:56:17 +1100 Subject: Hardware Specs Of A Machine In-Reply-To: <346D30C3-87B1-4D4E-A8DF-D9B1C5C498A3@mac-access.net> References: <346D30C3-87B1-4D4E-A8DF-D9B1C5C498A3@mac-access.net> Message-ID: <4EB202D1.1080900@internode.on.net> Yep, you've the wrong RAM, should be DDR2 instead of DDR3, speed looks okay. On 3/11/2011 12:41 PM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: > Hello everybody > > First of all, I want to apologise for what might turn into a bit of a negative message. It really is not meant that way but I cannot think of any other way of putting this over in such a way that I get the point over. > > We are becoming more rapidly frustrated with Windows 7 Ultimate on our little Asus NetBook and I'm looking for the correct specifications for components in the machine. We changed some memory and I'm not sure whether we have used the correct module. That in itself may have been a mistake; but I could always replace the original one. > > Currently, we are using a DDR3 PC1067 MHZ 204-pin SDIM module to bring the machine up to 2GB from its pitiful 1GB default. However, I can't see the specs of the module we removed; it's covered by a manufacturer's label and if I remove it that is the end of the Hitachi manufacturer's warranty on the module. We have some PC1366 MHZ (I think it is) memory sitting in a box waiting to be used. But I dare not try it until I know what the machine is supposed to have installed. I don't particularly want to do it any permanent damage although Gordon says it would just slow down the bus speed if it were wrong. > > The machine itself is an Asus 1015PEM NetBook which has a 2.0 GHZ Intel? Core2 Duo processor. The specs I do have for the machine are, to be honest, pathetic really, and I have made a huge error of judgement I think when I bought this for Gordon. There is no specifications sheet in the idiots guide that came with it; and yes, I did look right through it. I call it an idiots guide because it really is that; apart, to be fair, from the detailed description of the system recovery procedure which is helpful; nobody could deny that. > > It was supposed to be for Braille and DAISY production under Windows natively. But the machine itself is so darn slow its unbelievable and almost unusable. That is why we opted to try a memory upgrade. But it made little or no difference. Our virtual machines run faster and I'm talking here about the 32-bit version in both cases. The 64-bit VM's we have on our quad-core Macs blow it out of the water. I have tried extensive Google searches for this information but all I can find is "come to us and buy this machine at the lowest price in the UK" from every place I look. > > I hate to sound negative but at the moment I'm really despondent about this as it set me back a lot of money I can't afford to waste. And no, it isn't all bad. :) > > I would love to have tried the 64-bit version of Windows 7 or even the 64-bit developer preview of Windows 8 which is available to Gordon as an MSDN member. But I just don't dare. It has a recovery partition and from what I have read it would be zapped if I did. Time to use Image for Windows when we get it working right. > > Another very large, although not insurmountable problem with the machine though is its total lack of Bluetooth support. But again, to be totally fair, that really is my fault as I should have noticed the lack of the Bluetooth symbol. If does have some good bits though; the keyboard is quite nice, and the display has anti-glare technology which is nice because it makes it easy on the eyes. It also has light sensitivity in it so that the displays brightness changes to suit the ambient light conditions which is a really nice feature. So please don't think I'm writing it off; it is potentially a good machine if we can make it more workable. > > Anyway if anybody else has a way of determining the actual specs for this I'd be grateful. I'd rather not try this memory until I know. > > I plan to write shortly about something else we recently acquired which will probably be of great interest to anybody with an ear for Windows accessibility. It's absolutely wonderful, and a fraction of the price of traditional Windows accessibility tools. > > Thanks in advance. > > Lynne > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- -- Dane Trethowan From Melton Victoria Australia skype callto:grtdane12 MSN: grtdane at dane-trethowan.net From lynne at mac-access.net Thu Nov 3 03:21:05 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 03:21:05 +0000 Subject: Hardware Specs Of A Machine In-Reply-To: <4EB202D1.1080900@internode.on.net> References: <346D30C3-87B1-4D4E-A8DF-D9B1C5C498A3@mac-access.net> <4EB202D1.1080900@internode.on.net> Message-ID: <4C62D212-1AFC-4DB8-A699-7C2A30A3BF3E@mac-access.net> No. This machine is dual core and it does say in the manual DDR3 not DDR2. But it doesn't give you the exact specs. DDR2 is 174 pin, I believe; whereas DDR3 is 204. If it were the wrong type it wouldn't be working at all. That's as I understand it anyway. Lynne On 3 Nov 2011, at 02:56, Dane Trethowan wrote: Yep, you've the wrong RAM, should be DDR2 instead of DDR3, speed looks okay. On 3/11/2011 12:41 PM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: > Hello everybody > > First of all, I want to apologise for what might turn into a bit of a negative message. It really is not meant that way but I cannot think of any other way of putting this over in such a way that I get the point over. > > We are becoming more rapidly frustrated with Windows 7 Ultimate on our little Asus NetBook and I'm looking for the correct specifications for components in the machine. We changed some memory and I'm not sure whether we have used the correct module. That in itself may have been a mistake; but I could always replace the original one. > > Currently, we are using a DDR3 PC1067 MHZ 204-pin SDIM module to bring the machine up to 2GB from its pitiful 1GB default. However, I can't see the specs of the module we removed; it's covered by a manufacturer's label and if I remove it that is the end of the Hitachi manufacturer's warranty on the module. We have some PC1366 MHZ (I think it is) memory sitting in a box waiting to be used. But I dare not try it until I know what the machine is supposed to have installed. I don't particularly want to do it any permanent damage although Gordon says it would just slow down the bus speed if it were wrong. > > The machine itself is an Asus 1015PEM NetBook which has a 2.0 GHZ Intel? Core2 Duo processor. The specs I do have for the machine are, to be honest, pathetic really, and I have made a huge error of judgement I think when I bought this for Gordon. There is no specifications sheet in the idiots guide that came with it; and yes, I did look right through it. I call it an idiots guide because it really is that; apart, to be fair, from the detailed description of the system recovery procedure which is helpful; nobody could deny that. > > It was supposed to be for Braille and DAISY production under Windows natively. But the machine itself is so darn slow its unbelievable and almost unusable. That is why we opted to try a memory upgrade. But it made little or no difference. Our virtual machines run faster and I'm talking here about the 32-bit version in both cases. The 64-bit VM's we have on our quad-core Macs blow it out of the water. I have tried extensive Google searches for this information but all I can find is "come to us and buy this machine at the lowest price in the UK" from every place I look. > > I hate to sound negative but at the moment I'm really despondent about this as it set me back a lot of money I can't afford to waste. And no, it isn't all bad. :) > > I would love to have tried the 64-bit version of Windows 7 or even the 64-bit developer preview of Windows 8 which is available to Gordon as an MSDN member. But I just don't dare. It has a recovery partition and from what I have read it would be zapped if I did. Time to use Image for Windows when we get it working right. > > Another very large, although not insurmountable problem with the machine though is its total lack of Bluetooth support. But again, to be totally fair, that really is my fault as I should have noticed the lack of the Bluetooth symbol. If does have some good bits though; the keyboard is quite nice, and the display has anti-glare technology which is nice because it makes it easy on the eyes. It also has light sensitivity in it so that the displays brightness changes to suit the ambient light conditions which is a really nice feature. So please don't think I'm writing it off; it is potentially a good machine if we can make it more workable. > > Anyway if anybody else has a way of determining the actual specs for this I'd be grateful. I'd rather not try this memory until I know. > > I plan to write shortly about something else we recently acquired which will probably be of great interest to anybody with an ear for Windows accessibility. It's absolutely wonderful, and a fraction of the price of traditional Windows accessibility tools. > > Thanks in advance. > > Lynne > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- -- Dane Trethowan From Melton Victoria Australia skype callto:grtdane12 MSN: grtdane at dane-trethowan.net ======================================= The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html Or: you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: --------------------------------------- From martin at x.it.okstate.edu Thu Nov 3 16:37:16 2011 From: martin at x.it.okstate.edu (Martin McCormick) Date: Thu, 03 Nov 2011 11:37:16 -0500 Subject: Radio Amateur Message-ID: <201111031637.pA3GbGSZ074898@x.it.okstate.edu> As we say in amateur radio, "fine business" or FB over CW. Hello, Gordon. I can't brag that much as I believed I have successfully failed each class of license exam at least once in my life and had to take it again. We also used to have what was called a conditional class license and people who were handicapped could take it and all of that sort of thing and it was also treated with scorn by the amateurs who had sweated blood and taken it the hard way. To get a Conditional license, you had to be unable to take the test and probably had to get a doctor's certificate or you had to live more than 300 miles from the nearest FCC examination point. I wouldn't have been caught dead getting in the door by claiming disability and, in 1969 when I first sat for the General exam, we probably lived less than 30 miles away from the testing site which was a large Federal government office building in Oklahoma City. It was pure terror and I failed the CW part which was to copy CW for 1 minute at 13 words per minute. The Technician class license at the time required 5 WPM of copy so you could get credit for that if you copied enough characters to equal what you would have had to do to copy 5 WPM and I did do that so the trip wasn't a complete rainout but I still had only a Technician License. To make things eeven more exciting, the FCC examiners only came to Oklahoma City every 3 months so I had to wait and wait and wait, it seemed like until January or February of 1970. Every night, I copied the weather and news information broadcast by NSS which was a CW station operated by the US Navy. The news casts were around 20 WPM and the weather was sent at around 15 or so words per minute. Each message started with the letters U N C L A S. I asked my father what that meant and it meant it was unclassified. Had they sent a classified message, it would have been still in Morse, but just a bunch of seemingly random numbers and letters like a practice group. Anyway, I tuned in NSS plus lots of amateur Morse traffic every night and got that speed up to around 15. When I went back, the same FCC examiner was there and he remembered me. He did have me wait until the others had finished and then I could speak the letters. I got a perfect minute of copy and he turned off the tape right then and there and said I had passed. It is quite a rush. In the US, at that time, we had Novice Class which was non-renewable, Technician which only let you use VHF and higher, then General, Advanced and Extra which gave you HF phone capabilities. I got the Advanced license in 1976 and then sat for the Extra in 1988. By that time, the volunteer Examiner program had been established so you did not have to go to a FCC examination point any longer. In 1988, you still had to do twenty words per minute in Morse and I got out some old Morse practice tapes that were recorded at 13 words per minute. I played them at twice the speed and could copy a lot of it so I began to study for the Extra. That time, I ended up passing the Morse and failing the written part due to having an out-dated study manual and maybe a bit of a thick skull. I got a current manual and about 3 months later, passed the written part so the job now is to keep current. If it was just talking on the radio, I probably wouldn't have gone to all this trouble, but it is the knowledge factor and the public service aspect that appeals to me. It sounds like you have the proper spirit for being a radio amateur and I wish there were morefolks who don't just view it as sort of a free mobile telephone service. 73 W B 5 A G Z Gordon Smith writes: > Hi Martin > > Although I guess I don't talk about it much these days, it is great to be > able to add a little to this, good to meet you my fellow radio amateur. > For the sake of interest, if there is any, my callsign is: "G0BQC", that > is, in case your synthesiser didn't read it properly, "G", "0", "B", "Z", > "C". > > I took my radio amateur examination, (known at that time in the United > Kingdom as City And Guilds paper 765, parts A and B), back at the end of > 1982 and I got my B-class license in February/March of 1983. I tinkered > around on VHF/UHF for a couple of years and in April o of 1985 the UK > government finally woke up a little bit and moved to allow class B > licensees to practise and learn Morse code on certain parts of the 2 > meter band. > > I started learning in April of 1985 and on 6 June of that year I took my > Morse test and passed. Well, to be honest, an idiot could pass that > test. You only have to do More transmit and receive of alpha/numeric > characters with the odd punctuation for 3 minutes at 12 WPM. From marrie12 at gmail.com Thu Nov 3 19:06:41 2011 From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah Alawami) Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 12:06:41 -0700 Subject: Radio Amateur In-Reply-To: <201111031637.pA3GbGSZ074898@x.it.okstate.edu> References: <201111031637.pA3GbGSZ074898@x.it.okstate.edu> Message-ID: <88A2D8D6-5BE6-4355-B5B8-4D3C1E5E7CD8@gmail.com> OH wow. I want to learn cw but I can't spell with a crap. lol! CW and ham are dying arts in general and I wish we could get them going. I don't have a radio at the moment but when I was on the air borrowing someone's equipment I felt like I could touch the world so to speak.. I only have a tech license but because of the western reflector I can talk to people in the UK or at least I used to be able to do that lol! and the round table discussions were fun as well. Ok My hands are getting tired so better stop typing for now. Take care and 73 until next time. On Nov 3, 2011, at 9:37 AM, Martin McCormick wrote: > As we say in amateur radio, "fine business" or FB over > CW. > > Hello, Gordon. > > I can't brag that much as I believed I have successfully > failed each class of license exam at least once in my life and > had to take it again. > > We also used to have what was called a conditional class > license and people who were handicapped could take it and all of > that sort of thing and it was also treated with scorn by the > amateurs who had sweated blood and taken it the hard way. > > To get a Conditional license, you had to be unable to > take the test and probably had to get a doctor's certificate or > you had to live more than 300 miles from the nearest FCC > examination point. I wouldn't have been caught dead getting in > the door by claiming disability and, in 1969 when I first sat > for the General exam, we probably lived less than 30 miles away > from the testing site which was a large Federal government > office building in Oklahoma City. > > It was pure terror and I failed the CW part which was to > copy CW for 1 minute at 13 words per minute. > > The Technician class license at the time required 5 WPM > of copy so you could get credit for that if you copied enough > characters to equal what you would have had to do to copy 5 WPM > and I did do that so the trip wasn't a complete rainout but I > still had only a Technician License. > > To make things even more exciting, the FCC examiners > only came to Oklahoma City every 3 months so I had to wait and > wait and wait, it seemed like until January or February of 1970. > > Every night, I copied the weather and news information > broadcast by NSS which was a CW station operated by the US Navy. > The news casts were around 20 WPM and the weather was sent at > around 15 or so words per minute. Each message started with the > letters U N C L A S. I asked my father what that meant and it > meant it was unclassified. Had they sent a classified message, > it would have been still in Morse, but just a bunch of seemingly > random numbers and letters like a practice group. > > Anyway, I tuned in NSS plus lots of amateur Morse > traffic every night and got that speed up to around 15. > > When I went back, the same FCC examiner was there and he > remembered me. He did have me wait until the others had finished > and then I could speak the letters. I got a perfect minute of > copy and he turned off the tape right then and there and said I > had passed. It is quite a rush. > > In the US, at that time, we had Novice Class which was > non-renewable, Technician which only let you use VHF and higher, > then General, Advanced and Extra which gave you HF phone > capabilities. > > I got the Advanced license in 1976 and then sat for the > Extra in 1988. By that time, the volunteer Examiner program had > been established so you did not have to go to a FCC examination > point any longer. > > In 1988, you still had to do twenty words per minute in > Morse and I got out some old Morse practice tapes that were > recorded at 13 words per minute. I played them at twice the > speed and could copy a lot of it so I began to study for the > Extra. > > That time, I ended up passing the Morse and failing the > written part due to having an out-dated study manual and maybe a > bit of a thick skull. > > I got a current manual and about 3 months later, passed > the written part so the job now is to keep current. > > If it was just talking on the radio, I probably wouldn't > have gone to all this trouble, but it is the knowledge factor > and the public service aspect that appeals to me. > > It sounds like you have the proper spirit for being a > radio amateur and I wish there were morefolks who don't just > view it as sort of a free mobile telephone service. > > 73 > > W B 5 A G Z > > Gordon Smith writes: >> Hi Martin >> >> Although I guess I don't talk about it much these days, it is great to be >> able to add a little to this, good to meet you my fellow radio amateur. >> For the sake of interest, if there is any, my callsign is: "G0BQC", that >> is, in case your synthesiser didn't read it properly, "G", "0", "B", "Z", >> "C". >> >> I took my radio amateur examination, (known at that time in the United >> Kingdom as City And Guilds paper 765, parts A and B), back at the end of >> 1982 and I got my B-class license in February/March of 1983. I tinkered >> around on VHF/UHF for a couple of years and in April o of 1985 the UK >> government finally woke up a little bit and moved to allow class B >> licensees to practise and learn Morse code on certain parts of the 2 >> meter band. >> >> I started learning in April of 1985 and on 6 June of that year I took my >> Morse test and passed. Well, to be honest, an idiot could pass that >> test. You only have to do More transmit and receive of alpha/numeric >> characters with the odd punctuation for 3 minutes at 12 WPM. > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- From martin at x.it.okstate.edu Thu Nov 3 19:49:40 2011 From: martin at x.it.okstate.edu (Martin McCormick) Date: Thu, 03 Nov 2011 14:49:40 -0500 Subject: Radio Amateur Message-ID: <201111031949.pA3JneIn076130@x.it.okstate.edu> Now that the Solar Flux is climbing, those with a Technician license can get on ten meters and talk to Europe and Africa in the mornings and Australia, New Zealand and Japan after dark just to mention a few possibilities. Those on the West Coast of North America will have better luck with Asia and Australia than those who live on the East Coast. East Coasters hear Western Europe best but with patience, anybody can work anybody eventually. The VHF spectrum officially starts at and above 30 megahertz and that is generallly the frequency at which ionospheric reflection stops being useful for communication but that is not a hard and fast law of nature, just a general rule. When the Solar flux is high, the ion density in our upper atmosphere gets great enough that radio signals above 30 MHZ reflect off what is called the F2 layer and come back to Earth as much as 2000 miles away. The signals then bounce off the Earth or ocean and hit the ionosphere once again for another bounce. A few of those multiple hops and the signals go halfway around the Earth. The ten meter amateur band is right at the top of the HF frequency range and many times, it behaves like VHF in that the signals just go right out in to space but the higher Solar activity we have now is livening things up a lot and it now almost routine for somebody these days to brag about talking to or using digital modes to Africa, Asia or the South Pacific. Someone sent me a really good link to a general overview article about amateur radio so here it is: Sarah Alawami writes: > OH wow. I want to learn cw but I can't spell with a crap. lol! CW and ham > are dying arts in general and I wish we could get them going. I don't > have a radio at the moment but when I was on the air borrowing someone's > equipment I felt like I could touch the world so to speak.. I only have > a tech license but because of the western reflector I can talk to people > in the UK or at least I used to be able to do that lol! and the round > table discussions were fun as well. Ok My hands are getting tired so > better stop typing for now. > Take care and 73 until next time. From martin at x.it.okstate.edu Thu Nov 3 19:52:51 2011 From: martin at x.it.okstate.edu (Martin McCormick) Date: Thu, 03 Nov 2011 14:52:51 -0500 Subject: Radio Amateur Message-ID: <201111031952.pA3Jqp1S076158@x.it.okstate.edu> I think I had a major brain fade. Maybe all that Solar flux is disolving some of the grey matter.Here is the link that I meant to include. It got in and then I accidentally zapped it. http://www.edn.com/article/519742-Ham_radio_in_the_21st_century.php From grtdane at internode.on.net Thu Nov 3 22:14:25 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2011 09:14:25 +1100 Subject: GW Micro - Reading Systems - ReadEasy+ Message-ID: <149D8BE9-D328-40AB-A981-02FF50BF4B6B@internode.on.net> I was most interested to read the announcement of the release of the Read Easy as it seems to have quite a bit of potential. Some very good thought has obviously gone into the design of this product making it attractive for both novice and advanced user alike, the device itself only has 6 buttons and yet other options can be introduced to satisfy the needs of more demanding users, a touch screen for example can be connected which adds the flexibility of gestures to the Redeasy system, similar to those found on an Ipad. Find out more about GW Micro's Readeasy system at http://www.gwmicro.com/Reading_Systems/ReadEasy/ From grtdane at internode.on.net Thu Nov 3 22:31:44 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2011 09:31:44 +1100 Subject: Newly discovered features in Tune-Up Utilities Message-ID: Amazing what you find when you're looking . I've been a user of Tune-Up Utilities for quite some time now, every time I get a few moments to explore the system I'm always finding out something new or finding something in the system I didn't know existed before. I just happened to look in my system tray and found 3 options for Tune-Up Utilities I never knew existed, "Standard", "turbo" and "Economy" modes. In "Standard" mode Tune-Up Utilities does nothing, in other words it leaves things alone. In "Turbo" and Economy" modes wizards are presented to allow you to change various settings. If you select "Turbo" mode, you're walked through a series of steps which allow you to disable various pieces of software and services which are loaded at start-up which may not be required, services which are vary rarely used or perhaps never used at all and so on. In "Economy Mode" a wizard is presented which walks you through various processes which include adjusting power settings and various other parameters which may save your machines battery power. Tune-Up Utilities makes a point that all these settings and adjustments can be modified by the user manually if required and even provides tools to help you do this if you're not feeling too comfortable going into the registry or other utilities to do Tweaking and this is a good thing, even the most advanced users can type a wrong character or modify a wrong value resulting in near disaster and other problems, I modified something in the start-up part of my registry not long ago only to discover that the next time I booted my PC I had no sound thus no voice or Screen reader to work with, thank god for the external voice synthesiser and "Rollback" . From gordon at mac-access.net Fri Nov 4 00:52:22 2011 From: gordon at mac-access.net (Gordon Smith) Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2011 00:52:22 +0000 Subject: Radio Amateur In-Reply-To: <201111031637.pA3GbGSZ074898@x.it.okstate.edu> References: <201111031637.pA3GbGSZ074898@x.it.okstate.edu> Message-ID: <9B02E56A-5288-47E7-91DC-9816A1E47964@mac-access.net> Hi Martin This is a fascinating message, thank you. Much has changed here in the UK regarding amateur radio licenses, their respective terms and conditions since I sat my exam. Now, they virtually give the darn things away on the back of a cornflakes box and I feel as many of the so-called old-timers feel, it's nothing more than a glorified CB license these days. The hobby needs injections of new blood, I do accept that fact though. But honestly, some of the new simplifications are ridiculous. As you say, you don't have to do nearly as much work now as once you did. Nowadays it's just a matter of clicking yes or no on a Q/A sheet and you're done. In my day, you had to design things like the basic layout of a power supply, and draw its diagram. Obviously I couldn't draw it so I had to have the examiner do that for me. That was an experience to be sure. But the examiner in my case was an engineer and he knew what I was talking about and so I was able to describe the circuitry to him and he drew it. So in that respect I was fortunate. As to our licensing terms, things started to change in the early 90s with the introduction of the "Novice" license. I honestly can't remember all of the details of the license but at least there was a little technical work. The full class novice licensee had to do a bit of Morse and that was the only difference. Novices were initially allowed to use UHF and that was later extended to VHF as well. Things have changed since then actually and now, we often get people talking on VHF who clearly don't have a clue what they're talking about. In fact, I heard a bloke on there the other day who didn't even know how to calculate the fuse required in one of his domestic appliances' plugs, let alone go into any further technical detail. Ah, for the good old days of proper amateur radio! But personally I didn't want to be labelled as "Handicapped", I hate that kind of stigma and personally I think for visually impaired people to sneak in the back way under the guise of being "Handicapped" is nothing short of a cop-out! Not only that, it's an insult to the intelligence of blind people. After all, are blind people given special dispensation to the examinations they are required to take in the academic world? No, of course not. We still had to sit our English, Maths and other exams. So why should we be allowed to cop-out the amateur radio license? Anyway, I won't waffle on much more as I know that some of my views and opinions are sometimes considered a bit radical. I know also that some of those people who are more sensitive to their disability than I am often take offence and I don't wish or mean to give offence to anybody. 73 OM. Gordon On 3 Nov 2011, at 16:37, Martin McCormick wrote: As we say in amateur radio, "fine business" or FB over CW. Hello, Gordon. I can't brag that much as I believed I have successfully failed each class of license exam at least once in my life and had to take it again. We also used to have what was called a conditional class license and people who were handicapped could take it and all of that sort of thing and it was also treated with scorn by the amateurs who had sweated blood and taken it the hard way. To get a Conditional license, you had to be unable to take the test and probably had to get a doctor's certificate or you had to live more than 300 miles from the nearest FCC examination point. I wouldn't have been caught dead getting in the door by claiming disability and, in 1969 when I first sat for the General exam, we probably lived less than 30 miles away from the testing site which was a large Federal government office building in Oklahoma City. It was pure terror and I failed the CW part which was to copy CW for 1 minute at 13 words per minute. The Technician class license at the time required 5 WPM of copy so you could get credit for that if you copied enough characters to equal what you would have had to do to copy 5 WPM and I did do that so the trip wasn't a complete rainout but I still had only a Technician License. To make things eeven more exciting, the FCC examiners only came to Oklahoma City every 3 months so I had to wait and wait and wait, it seemed like until January or February of 1970. Every night, I copied the weather and news information broadcast by NSS which was a CW station operated by the US Navy. The news casts were around 20 WPM and the weather was sent at around 15 or so words per minute. Each message started with the letters U N C L A S. I asked my father what that meant and it meant it was unclassified. Had they sent a classified message, it would have been still in Morse, but just a bunch of seemingly random numbers and letters like a practice group. Anyway, I tuned in NSS plus lots of amateur Morse traffic every night and got that speed up to around 15. When I went back, the same FCC examiner was there and he remembered me. He did have me wait until the others had finished and then I could speak the letters. I got a perfect minute of copy and he turned off the tape right then and there and said I had passed. It is quite a rush. In the US, at that time, we had Novice Class which was non-renewable, Technician which only let you use VHF and higher, then General, Advanced and Extra which gave you HF phone capabilities. I got the Advanced license in 1976 and then sat for the Extra in 1988. By that time, the volunteer Examiner program had been established so you did not have to go to a FCC examination point any longer. In 1988, you still had to do twenty words per minute in Morse and I got out some old Morse practice tapes that were recorded at 13 words per minute. I played them at twice the speed and could copy a lot of it so I began to study for the Extra. That time, I ended up passing the Morse and failing the written part due to having an out-dated study manual and maybe a bit of a thick skull. I got a current manual and about 3 months later, passed the written part so the job now is to keep current. If it was just talking on the radio, I probably wouldn't have gone to all this trouble, but it is the knowledge factor and the public service aspect that appeals to me. It sounds like you have the proper spirit for being a radio amateur and I wish there were morefolks who don't just view it as sort of a free mobile telephone service. 73 W B 5 A G Z From gordon at mac-access.net Fri Nov 4 01:14:24 2011 From: gordon at mac-access.net (Gordon Smith) Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2011 01:14:24 +0000 Subject: Radio Amateur In-Reply-To: <88A2D8D6-5BE6-4355-B5B8-4D3C1E5E7CD8@gmail.com> References: <201111031637.pA3GbGSZ074898@x.it.okstate.edu> <88A2D8D6-5BE6-4355-B5B8-4D3C1E5E7CD8@gmail.com> Message-ID: <15D48713-423E-4FE3-A6BD-5472B23BEB84@mac-access.net> I have to say that either I don't understand the American licensing system, or else something very odd is going on here. Probably the former of the two, to be absolutely fair. I have a problem comprehending though how somebody who hasn't sat the exam could "Borrow somebody else's equipment", let alone talk on air as a legitimate amateur radio station on the HF bands especially. I have to say though that I do envy the US amateur radio operators. Over there you're allowed to do such things as use repeaters to patch into mobile phone networks and you can call the Mrs at home, for instance, to ask her to get your lunch ready as you're on the way home and starving! ;-) But anyway, you say "Ham", and "CW" are dying arts. CW or "Carrier Wave" is not an art, it is a form of transmission. it is "Morse Code", often loosely defined, if somewhat inaccurately as "CW" which is the dying art. Morse is, at least over here, no longer a requirement of the amateur radio license and that is wrong, in my opinion, and I'll tell you why. Morse or, to put it more accurately, the generation of a carrier signal on an unmodulated radiation of RF, is highly effective over greater distances than most other forms of radio transmission. Therefore, it enables the reception of signals even in circumstances where other forms of transmission would not be legible. That is why it was required at one time as part of the UK license. Amateur radio operators had a mandatory obligation to make themselves available in the event that a national or regional emergency was declared. In my time as an amateur radio operator, that has only occurred ones and that was in 1988 when a certain PanAm aircraft plunged to the ground over a remote Scottish town, killing everybody onboard and a number of people on the ground. At that time, I was a member of the Radio Amateur emergency network, "RaNet" I was one of the ones in the control centre coordinating the guys out in the field, so to speak. One of my radio amateur friends once had to be treated for shock, having made the grim discovery of body parts in a field whilst searching for wreckage. I would imagine that stumbling upon a badly burned and partially decomposed corpse in a field must be a pretty horrific experience and I know that my friend Richard was affected for quite a while by that experience. Anyway, as I say, Morse should still be a part of the licensing conditions in my view. But it seems that the modern-day thinkers don't agree because the RSGB and other think tanks down at the department of Trade and Industry in Whitehall, London, don't seem to agree with that philosophy. But as for learning Morse, I would be more than happy to assist anybody to learn Morse. Taking your spelling problem into account, Sarah, you don't actually need to be able to spell that well to use Morse. Much of what you send is sent in abbreviated form anyway, so actually you might find it easier than you think. Morse, like Braille, follows a logical pattern. It's actually very easy to understand once you get to grips with it. The thing that prevents many people from learning Morse is fear. I think it's fear of failure that tends to get in the way a lot of the time. If you have an ear for music, you'll find Morse quite easy as it's a very rhythmic language. Dashes are 3 times the length of a dot, and if Morse is sent well, it's often just like listening to a piece of music. Gordon On 3 Nov 2011, at 19:06, Sarah Alawami wrote: OH wow. I want to learn cw but I can't spell with a crap. lol! CW and ham are dying arts in general and I wish we could get them going. I don't have a radio at the moment but when I was on the air borrowing someone's equipment I felt like I could touch the world so to speak.. I only have a tech license but because of the western reflector I can talk to people in the UK or at least I used to be able to do that lol! and the round table discussions were fun as well. Ok My hands are getting tired so better stop typing for now. Take care and 73 until next time. From lynne at mac-access.net Fri Nov 4 02:01:37 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2011 02:01:37 +0000 Subject: Some help, please, if it isn't too much to ask Message-ID: <3475F6E7-8A2B-438F-ACAA-F180B604CA95@mac-access.net> hello everybody I am sorry to yet again show my ignorance here but I would appreciate a little help from somebody willing to be constructive in their comment. This message is probably only going to apply to those who use Window-Eyes. I am trying to configure the keyboard layout so that it can be used properly on our little NetBook. Currently the keyboard layout is set for a desktop machine and, subsequently we cannot control the mouse movement. It was suggested recently by a member of this group that I should be using the mouse keys to control things like Tune-Up Utilities. Gordon is way off the loop with the current Window-Eyes as he hasn't used Windows for quite a while. But he's going to need too soon and I offered to do the groundwork for him as he is very busy working on a server-related project on our other platform at the moment and it makes sense to do it this way while I'm off work and want to spend more time with him. So, could somebody who's familiar with Window-Eyes 7.5 and later please give me a clue as to where to look. Gordon said that there is a default configuration option for the hot keys and he says that it used to be somewhere in the keyboard menu under Window-Eyes 7.0.x. But again he can't remember where it was exactly and cannot check as we don't have it installed. In order to use the mouse keys properly on a notebook/NetBook, I gather from Gordon that I need to modify the default keyboard layout accordingly or else spend years re-defining all of the various keys individually. :) I do not have any form of desktop computer with which I can do this test; nor do we own a desktop keyboard. So basically I'm kind of stuck because our NetBook does not, of course, possess a numeric keypad. So the default mouse keys are not available to me. Yes, in case anybody is going to suggest I do so, I have looked at the user documentation. I have found the keypad layout in the Window-Eyes documentation appendix so I have now an idea of which mouse key does what. I'm a little concerned though that even that might not quite function properly on our NetBook without the use of about 6 pairs of fingers. :) Anyway I'm hoping to start learning again; but if somebody could please point me in the right direction I would be grateful. I asked these questions earlier today of somebody who, until that point, I had considered a helpful person and thankfully he's not a member of this group because His responses have changed my views of him as a person and I won't be bothering with him anymore; but that's another matter. So if you're able to give me constructive comment I thanks in advance. Lynne From roger.firman at btinternet.com Fri Nov 4 08:07:58 2011 From: roger.firman at btinternet.com (Roger Firman) Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2011 08:07:58 -0000 Subject: Some help, please, if it isn't too much to ask In-Reply-To: <3475F6E7-8A2B-438F-ACAA-F180B604CA95@mac-access.net> Message-ID: Hello Lynne, Keyboard layout page may have the answer. I don't use the product but hope this might help you. Roger. From lynne at mac-access.net Fri Nov 4 11:31:07 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2011 11:31:07 +0000 Subject: Some help, please, if it isn't too much to ask In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Roger I'm not sure exactly what happened there; or what you were trying to send. If you tried to attach a file be advised that you cannot send attachments to the group. Lynne On 4 Nov 2011, at 08:07, Roger Firman wrote: Hello Lynne, Keyboard layout page may have the answer. I don't use the product but hope this might help you. Roger. ======================================= The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html Or: you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: --------------------------------------- From roger.firman at btinternet.com Fri Nov 4 11:41:38 2011 From: roger.firman at btinternet.com (Roger Firman) Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2011 11:41:38 -0000 Subject: Some help, please, if it isn't too much to ask In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hello Lynne, Thanks for your reply. No I wasn't trying to send anything. I think the keyboard layout page is within the software, perhaps on a menu? There are various formats of the manual which can be downloaded, I don't know if that will help or not. Roger. From lynne at mac-access.net Fri Nov 4 11:56:41 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2011 11:56:41 +0000 Subject: Some help, please, if it isn't too much to ask In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Roger Thank you for the response. Please don't think I was in any way complaining or ungrateful; neither is the case. I also need to impress upon you that I am not a software expert. Nor am I routinely a screen-reader user with the exception of my testing on VoiceOver. This is all new to me, and I am not bothering Gordon with all this at the moment owing to his circumstances. But I accept the implied rebuke and I will look again to see if I can find this within the software. Again; i apologise if I'm asking what are seemingly obvious questions. To me though it isn't obvious. I have vision and am new to the world of Windows screen-readers. Lynne On 4 Nov 2011, at 11:41, Roger Firman wrote: ? I think the keyboard layout page is within the software, perhaps on a menu? From roger.firman at btinternet.com Fri Nov 4 12:22:32 2011 From: roger.firman at btinternet.com (Roger Firman) Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2011 12:22:32 -0000 Subject: Some help, please, if it isn't too much to ask In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Lynne, There was no implied rebuke whatsoever, sorry you took it that way. I was just mentioning where I thought the answer to the question you raised could be. As previously mentioned, I don't use the product so I have absolutely no knowledge of how it works. If you are still unable to locate the answer, let me know and I will look further to see if I am able to gain more precise information. Roger. From lynne at mac-access.net Fri Nov 4 13:23:54 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2011 13:23:54 +0000 Subject: Some help, please, if it isn't too much to ask In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <34796A04-4578-47B7-A046-CEE58C4D9348@mac-access.net> hello Roger I have written to you off list about this; I hope I have better explained myself in that post. Lynne On 4 Nov 2011, at 12:22, Roger Firman wrote: Dear Lynne, There was no implied rebuke whatsoever, sorry you took it that way. I was just mentioning where I thought the answer to the question you raised could be. As previously mentioned, I don't use the product so I have absolutely no knowledge of how it works. If you are still unable to locate the answer, let me know and I will look further to see if I am able to gain more precise information. From martin at x.it.okstate.edu Fri Nov 4 17:03:14 2011 From: martin at x.it.okstate.edu (Martin McCormick) Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2011 12:03:14 -0500 Subject: Why Morse? Was Radio Amateur Message-ID: <201111041703.pA4H3EPn081934@x.it.okstate.edu> In all honesty, I listen to Morse much more than I like to send it, but here is an example of why we should not loose it. There is a phenomenon called auroral backscatter or auroral propagation which you probably hear much more in the UK and extreme Northern United States in which the Northern lights or Aurora Borealis create a reflective region in the E layer of the ionosphere when protons from the Sun smash in to atoms of oxygen and nitrogen in our extreme upper atmosphere. The particles come in at speeds which sometimes are not terribly far off from the speed of light. Light takes 8 minutes to go from the Sun to Earth and these protons can take 18 to 36 hours so they are really zipping along especially if you take in to account that they have mass. They would do a real number on us if we were being hit by them, but the atmosphere absorbs them and their energy as they pour in. All those impacts on the atoms of thin air knock off electrons which desperately snap back to the nearest atom and that change in energy level gives off light. Anyway, all that subatomic mayhem produces lots of ions which reflect radio signals in primarily the VHF range and cause skip distances of several hundred miles so you can use 6 and 2-meter frequencies to talk upwards of a thousand miles away but there is a huge catch. Those protons are hitting at such enormous speeds that they create a Doppler effect which causes the radio frequency to appear to shift up and down with noise. The noise can be a hiss and some report a musical effect. It all depends on how hard we are being pounded. I have heard aurora once in my entire life around 1990 or maybe 1991 and it took my breath away. Oklahoma is roughly at 36 degrees North Latitude so we are too far South to get much aurora but we got a big one back then and we have had a few smaller events with one just this last week or so. I am lucky enough to have a VHF receiver that can tune 2-meters with a BFO for sideband and Morse and I heard several Morse stations in Michigan, possibly Indiana and Illinois which are all roughly 800 to 1000 miles to our Northeast. I didn't hear any sideband and I bet good money that most of the digital means of communicating would not have worked because the Morse, for instance, sounded like somebody sending Morse with a steam hose or compressed air outlet. It was just a hiss that sounded like Morse. The signals faded in and out like short wave does, but that hiss or buzzy effect was really strange to hear. Basically, Morse is about the only thing one could hear. Most other types of emission require a stable frequency and this was in no way a stable frequency. I am hoping we get some more aurora this Solar cycle. Here in Oklahoma, you have to be quick or you miss it. On the regulatory front, It is totally illegal in America for any non-licensed person to transmit on the amateur bands unless there is a licensed amateur right there to basically be the grownup in charge. You have to make sure the transmissions comply with the law and your own license class. Gordon Smith writes: > I have to say that either I don't understand the American licensing > system, or else something very odd is going on here. Probably the former > of the two, to be absolutely fair. > > I have a problem comprehending though how somebody who hasn't sat the > exam could "Borrow somebody else's equipment", let alone talk on air as a > legitimate amateur radio station on the HF bands especially. From gordon at mac-access.net Fri Nov 4 23:23:56 2011 From: gordon at mac-access.net (Gordon Smith) Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2011 23:23:56 +0000 Subject: Why Morse? Was Radio Amateur In-Reply-To: <201111041703.pA4H3EPn081934@x.it.okstate.edu> References: <201111041703.pA4H3EPn081934@x.it.okstate.edu> Message-ID: Hi Martin You know something, we got an aurora not to long ago actually and some of the stuff we heard over that 70 minutes (which, incidentally, is quite an unusually lengthy time for that particular phenomenon to linger), were amazing. I'm fortunate enough to own one of the most terrific multimode transceivers ever to roll out of the design workshops, let alone into main stream manufacture and sale, (a Kenwood TS790-E), (known in North America as the TS790-A). That particular transceiver is, or in my case was, a 2 meter and 70 centimetre transceiver which (in the European model's case), covered the frequency ranges of 144.00 to 146.00 MHZ and 430.00 to 440.00 MHZ. The North American model covers 144.00 through 148.00 MHZ and 430.00 to 440.00 MHZ. However, there is a little modification which one can do that involves nothing more than the snipping off the circuit board of the primary logic board which encompasses the phase locked loop circuitry and once that modification has been carried out, the transceiver becomes general coverage in all modes. Mine now transmits and receives perfectly between 100 and 250 MHZ, and 400 and 600 MHZ. I also have the 6 meter transverter which gives me excellent coverage between 26 and 100 MHZ which effectively turns my transceiver into a 10 meter multimode transceiver as well. But all this is entirely irrelevant. AS luck would have it I happened to be listening at the time around 2 meters when suddenly I heard a lot of stations popping up around the lower end of 144 MHZ on silly sideband. (Oope, sorry folks, that should be single sideband). ;-) anyway, I was able to hear stations in Scotland and the highlands working a contest with stations down in London and the South-East, as well as stations in Europe and the former U SSR which is something quite unheard of in recent times. The last time I encountered conditions like that was all the way back in 1985. I still have the logs from that day actually as it was the one and only time I've ever worked stations as far afield as that on VHF and even UHF where, sometimes, the effects of an aurora are even more pronounced than they are at VHF. I'd imagine your climatic conditions over there in the Southern half of the US wouldn't be particularly inductive to that kind of condition of radio because the rising heat would probably be a major factor. Anyway, to cut this short a little as it's turned into something of a ramble, I totally agree with your comments regarding Morse. Morse is an excellent means of communications and I'd encourage anybody who is blind, regardless of whether or not they happen to be interested in radio or even amateur radio, to try to learn it. If you're a listener, I hate the term so I won't use the phrase "Short Wave listener", it would probably give you tons of entertainment if you could read morse. Unless, of course, you're not one of those people like me who gets very bored very quickly with just listening to the blas? broadcast stations which just bore the hell out of me. But again that's another story. It was great fun listening to that and I wish I could've been a part of it. I couldn't though as it was quite late at night and we had people in the house and also next door in bed and it would have been grossly unfair. Gordon On 4 Nov 2011, at 17:03, Martin McCormick wrote: In all honesty, I listen to Morse much more than I like to send it, but here is an example of why we should not loose it. There is a phenomenon called auroral backscatter or auroral propagation which you probably hear much more in the UK and extreme Northern United States in which the Northern lights or Aurora Borealis create a reflective region in the E layer of the ionosphere when protons from the Sun smash in to atoms of oxygen and nitrogen in our extreme upper atmosphere. The particles come in at speeds which sometimes are not terribly far off from the speed of light. Light takes 8 minutes to go from the Sun to Earth and these protons can take 18 to 36 hours so they are really zipping along especially if you take in to account that they have mass. They would do a real number on us if we were being hit by them, but the atmosphere absorbs them and their energy as they pour in. All those impacts on the atoms of thin air knock off electrons which desperately snap back to the nearest atom and that change in energy level gives off light. Anyway, all that subatomic mayhem produces lots of ions which reflect radio signals in primarily the VHF range and cause skip distances of several hundred miles so you can use 6 and 2-meter frequencies to talk upwards of a thousand miles away but there is a huge catch. Those protons are hitting at such enormous speeds that they create a Doppler effect which causes the radio frequency to appear to shift up and down with noise. The noise can be a hiss and some report a musical effect. It all depends on how hard we are being pounded. I have heard aurora once in my entire life around 1990 or maybe 1991 and it took my breath away. Oklahoma is roughly at 36 degrees North Latitude so we are too far South to get much aurora but we got a big one back then and we have had a few smaller events with one just this last week or so. I am lucky enough to have a VHF receiver that can tune 2-meters with a BFO for sideband and Morse and I heard several Morse stations in Michigan, possibly Indiana and Illinois which are all roughly 800 to 1000 miles to our Northeast. I didn't hear any sideband and I bet good money that most of the digital means of communicating would not have worked because the Morse, for instance, sounded like somebody sending Morse with a steam hose or compressed air outlet. It was just a hiss that sounded like Morse. The signals faded in and out like short wave does, but that hiss or buzzy effect was really strange to hear. Basically, Morse is about the only thing one could hear. Most other types of emission require a stable frequency and this was in no way a stable frequency. I am hoping we get some more aurora this Solar cycle. Here in Oklahoma, you have to be quick or you miss it. On the regulatory front, It is totally illegal in America for any non-licensed person to transmit on the amateur bands unless there is a licensed amateur right there to basically be the grownup in charge. You have to make sure the transmissions comply with the law and your own license class. Gordon Smith writes: > I have to say that either I don't understand the American licensing > system, or else something very odd is going on here. Probably the former > of the two, to be absolutely fair. > > I have a problem comprehending though how somebody who hasn't sat the > exam could "Borrow somebody else's equipment", let alone talk on air as a > legitimate amateur radio station on the HF bands especially. ======================================= The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html Or: you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: --------------------------------------- From hopewell at hopewell.org.uk Sun Nov 6 18:55:33 2011 From: hopewell at hopewell.org.uk (Paul Hopewell) Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2011 18:55:33 +0000 Subject: Problem running Windows XP on Mac using VMWare Fusion Message-ID: <7317B1B7-C7BC-40D7-899C-2BB4722FA78C@hopewell.org.uk> Hello, I am running Mac OS 10.7.2 with the latest version of VMWare fusion on my iMac. I have virtual machines for Windows XP and Windows 7 64 bit. The Windows 7 virtual machine works fine, but the Windows XP virtual machine keeps re-installing VM Tools every time I start it. It also keeps wanting to re-install some Adobe updates and some WIndowEyes updates which I had installed the last time I started it. It is behaving as if my virtual machine were not being updated on disk. Looking at VMWare preferences and Virtual Machine settings I cannot see any significant differences between Windows XP which has problems and Windows 7 which works OK. After Windows XP has re-installed everything yet again it works OK. Any ideas on what is happening? Many thanks. Paul Hopewell From tsiegel at softcon.com Mon Nov 7 02:46:32 2011 From: tsiegel at softcon.com (Travis Siegel) Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2011 21:46:32 -0500 Subject: Why Morse? Was Radio Amateur In-Reply-To: References: <201111041703.pA4H3EPn081934@x.it.okstate.edu> Message-ID: <76D30D34-8A04-460C-9A3A-36E18ED9E6B2@softcon.com> I have a 2-meter radio I purchased from radio shack some time ago, that has recently started to misbehave on me. Now, it seems if I use a preset station, all works well, but if I try to use one that isn't a preset, it no longer operates properly unless I completely remove the squelch from the channel, and even then, sometimes on channels I *know* have things on them like the noaa radio broadcasts I get nothing. I'm guessing it's because something in the radio has broken loose as a result of it being dropped several times. It's quite the nice little radio, and I'd absolutely hate to have to get rid of it, so do either one of you have any ideas on how to fix it? (assuming of course it's fixable) The new ones radio shack have aren't nearly as small as this one, and they cost considerably more. I'd also be very interested in making that little mod that was mentioned as well, though I believe this particular radio only handles the 144-166 mhz (or something similar) ranges. I've actually never gotten anyone to sit still with me long enough to actually watch the display while I continue pressing the up channel button to see how far it goes before wrapping around. :) I did begin studying for my amateur radio license several years ago, but never completed either the studying or the testing, so don't currently have a ham license, but would love to get one sometime, so really need to look into that whole ham licensing thing again. I don't know what model radio I have, but it's pretty compact, extremely well put together, and feels very solid. It runs on 2 AA batteries, has earphone, microphone jacks, and a plug adapter port on it, though I've never found out what kind of adapter it actually uses. I am not sure exactly when I bought it, but I was in Delaware at the time, so it had to be sometime between 96 and 2006 if that narrows it down any. :) Thanks for any info any of you can offer here. From grtdane at internode.on.net Tue Nov 8 01:13:40 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane trethowan) Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2011 12:13:40 +1100 Subject: Article: Switching from Android to Iphone 4S with IOS5 Message-ID: <4EB88244.1000209@internode.on.net> Howdy Foks! Found this article and considered it a damn good read, thought others would too! I was originally under the impression that the author of the linked article may have been totally blind but - juding on the things contained in the text - I think he may have some vision but no matter, sitll a good reference all the same. -- sent from my HP Powerhouse Notebook. From grtdane at internode.on.net Tue Nov 8 02:37:24 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 13:37:24 +1100 Subject: News on Mountbatten Brailler Message-ID: <334B7604-2581-4E3C-BB0F-371B8975E455@internode.on.net> Hi! I was somewhat sadened to hear that the Mountbatten Brailler wasn't being developed by Quantum Technology in Australia any longer, manufacturing and development of this product has now moved to Europe. I suppose when I think about it I really shouldn't be at all surprised as the availability of parts was an issue here, I'm not sure whether that means that parts themselves were hard to source or whether the cost of importing them and making the product was the issue though the latter seems more likely. So what sort of future will the Mountbatten Brailler have? Well that's anyone's guess right now as far as I know, I knew a few plans the team in Australia had for this wonderful piece of equipment but now that's all been shelved. Perhaps we'll see a complete redesign of the product? That might be possible given that the basic design hasn't changed in 23 years and with that the technology for same. The basic design of the product in my view is quite good, best part of it is the sealed rubber membrane keyboard, you can "bash" away at it or press softly on it but whatever your preference that keyboard survives. From marrie12 at gmail.com Tue Nov 8 17:17:58 2011 From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah Alawami) Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 09:17:58 -0800 Subject: News on Mountbatten Brailler In-Reply-To: <334B7604-2581-4E3C-BB0F-371B8975E455@internode.on.net> References: <334B7604-2581-4E3C-BB0F-371B8975E455@internode.on.net> Message-ID: <67229EEC-AF2F-4FB4-8085-417BE4F8FFF4@gmail.com> I remember that thing and used it a lot. Iwish though that it were not so darned expensive ir I would get one as my hands cannot take the pounding on a real brailler for long, yet I have to do it anyway lol! On Nov 7, 2011, at 6:37 PM, Dane Trethowan wrote: > Hi! > > I was somewhat sadened to hear that the Mountbatten Brailler wasn't being developed by Quantum Technology in Australia any longer, manufacturing and development of this product has now moved to Europe. > > I suppose when I think about it I really shouldn't be at all surprised as the availability of parts was an issue here, I'm not sure whether that means that parts themselves were hard to source or whether the cost of importing them and making the product was the issue though the latter seems more likely. > > So what sort of future will the Mountbatten Brailler have? Well that's anyone's guess right now as far as I know, I knew a few plans the team in Australia had for this wonderful piece of equipment but now that's all been shelved. > > Perhaps we'll see a complete redesign of the product? That might be possible given that the basic design hasn't changed in 23 years and with that the technology for same. The basic design of the product in my view is quite good, best part of it is the sealed rubber membrane keyboard, you can "bash" away at it or press softly on it but whatever your preference that keyboard survives. > > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- From grtdane at internode.on.net Tue Nov 8 18:34:43 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2011 05:34:43 +1100 Subject: News on Mountbatten Brailler In-Reply-To: <67229EEC-AF2F-4FB4-8085-417BE4F8FFF4@gmail.com> References: <334B7604-2581-4E3C-BB0F-371B8975E455@internode.on.net> <67229EEC-AF2F-4FB4-8085-417BE4F8FFF4@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4EB97643.1040108@internode.on.net> Yep, cost is an issue not only with the Mountbatten Brailler but embossers in general, I use mine here quite a bit though its not in use every day. The keyboard as I said has been described - not only by me but by others who have used the machine - as a "Classic" Braille keyboard and little strength is required to use the board. The other thing I find handy about the functionality of the Mountbatten is its completely programmable keyboard or "1 handed mode", I've used this whilst on a standard telephone before I had a headset and other facilities as it worked perfectly for me to take notes and so on. Since I posted the original message in this thread I've been assured! that all new and existing Mountbatten Brailler owners will to continue to receive the excellent technical and after sales support that Mountbatten Brailler clients are accustomed to,, I can vouch for that myself. On 9/11/2011 4:17 AM, Sarah Alawami wrote: > I remember that thing and used it a lot. Iwish though that it were not so darned expensive ir I would get one as my hands cannot take the pounding on a real brailler for long, yet I have to do it anyway lol! > On Nov 7, 2011, at 6:37 PM, Dane Trethowan wrote: > >> Hi! >> >> I was somewhat sadened to hear that the Mountbatten Brailler wasn't being developed by Quantum Technology in Australia any longer, manufacturing and development of this product has now moved to Europe. >> >> I suppose when I think about it I really shouldn't be at all surprised as the availability of parts was an issue here, I'm not sure whether that means that parts themselves were hard to source or whether the cost of importing them and making the product was the issue though the latter seems more likely. >> >> So what sort of future will the Mountbatten Brailler have? Well that's anyone's guess right now as far as I know, I knew a few plans the team in Australia had for this wonderful piece of equipment but now that's all been shelved. >> >> Perhaps we'll see a complete redesign of the product? That might be possible given that the basic design hasn't changed in 23 years and with that the technology for same. The basic design of the product in my view is quite good, best part of it is the sealed rubber membrane keyboard, you can "bash" away at it or press softly on it but whatever your preference that keyboard survives. >> >> >> >> ======================================= >> >> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free >> >> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat >> >> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: >> >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html >> >> Or: >> >> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: >> >> >> --------------------------------------- > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- -- Dane Trethowan Sending email from his EEEPC Netbook From chris.hallsworth at techno-chat.net Tue Nov 8 19:10:13 2011 From: chris.hallsworth at techno-chat.net (chris hallsworth) Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2011 19:10:13 +0000 Subject: News on Mountbatten Brailler In-Reply-To: <4EB97643.1040108@internode.on.net> References: <334B7604-2581-4E3C-BB0F-371B8975E455@internode.on.net> <67229EEC-AF2F-4FB4-8085-417BE4F8FFF4@gmail.com> <4EB97643.1040108@internode.on.net> Message-ID: <4EB97E95.8060808@techno-chat.net> You know, I used the Mountbatten Brailler myself at further education. I liked it, but it sure sounded like shots were being fired from an automatic rifle! Lol! Honestly, it was so loud that people stared at me thinking what the hell! Lol! On 08/11/2011 18:34, Dane Trethowan wrote: > Yep, cost is an issue not only with the Mountbatten Brailler but > embossers in general, I use mine here quite a bit though its not in use > every day. > > The keyboard as I said has been described - not only by me but by others > who have used the machine - as a "Classic" Braille keyboard and little > strength is required to use the board. > > The other thing I find handy about the functionality of the Mountbatten > is its completely programmable keyboard or "1 handed mode", I've used > this whilst on a standard telephone before I had a headset and other > facilities as it worked perfectly for me to take notes and so on. > > Since I posted the original message in this thread I've been assured! > that all new and existing Mountbatten Brailler owners will to continue > to receive the excellent technical and after sales support that > Mountbatten Brailler clients are accustomed to,, I can vouch for that > myself. > > > > On 9/11/2011 4:17 AM, Sarah Alawami wrote: >> I remember that thing and used it a lot. Iwish though that it were not >> so darned expensive ir I would get one as my hands cannot take the >> pounding on a real brailler for long, yet I have to do it anyway lol! >> On Nov 7, 2011, at 6:37 PM, Dane Trethowan wrote: >> >>> Hi! >>> >>> I was somewhat sadened to hear that the Mountbatten Brailler wasn't >>> being developed by Quantum Technology in Australia any longer, >>> manufacturing and development of this product has now moved to Europe. >>> >>> I suppose when I think about it I really shouldn't be at all >>> surprised as the availability of parts was an issue here, I'm not >>> sure whether that means that parts themselves were hard to source or >>> whether the cost of importing them and making the product was the >>> issue though the latter seems more likely. >>> >>> So what sort of future will the Mountbatten Brailler have? Well >>> that's anyone's guess right now as far as I know, I knew a few plans >>> the team in Australia had for this wonderful piece of equipment but >>> now that's all been shelved. >>> >>> Perhaps we'll see a complete redesign of the product? That might be >>> possible given that the basic design hasn't changed in 23 years and >>> with that the technology for same. The basic design of the product in >>> my view is quite good, best part of it is the sealed rubber membrane >>> keyboard, you can "bash" away at it or press softly on it but >>> whatever your preference that keyboard survives. >>> >>> >>> >>> ======================================= >>> >>> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, >>> virus and worm-free >>> >>> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's >>> dedicated web pages located at >>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat >>> >>> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat >>> group at either of the following websites: >>> >>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html >>> >>> Or: >>> >>> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: >>> >>> >>> --------------------------------------- >> >> ======================================= >> >> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, >> virus and worm-free >> >> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's >> dedicated web pages located at >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat >> >> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat >> group at either of the following websites: >> >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html >> >> Or: >> >> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: >> >> >> --------------------------------------- > From lynne at mac-access.net Tue Nov 8 19:59:13 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 19:59:13 +0000 Subject: Talking Portable Document Readers Message-ID: <3A45E531-4BC9-449B-AC67-A316F4E441E4@mac-access.net> Hello everybody Please forgive the totally uninformed question here from somebody with vision. I'm looking into the possibility of buying my other half a portable document reader for Christmas. It would have to be one which could be connected to a computer to transfer content from the reader to the computer. Does such a thing exist and, if so does anybody have any information or experience on these things? I thought I'd read something somewhere about a device like that, and the subject cropped up in conversation with a friend of mine today. Thank you. Lynne From lynne at mac-access.net Tue Nov 8 20:02:03 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 20:02:03 +0000 Subject: Problem running Windows XP on Mac using VMWare Fusion In-Reply-To: <7317B1B7-C7BC-40D7-899C-2BB4722FA78C@hopewell.org.uk> References: <7317B1B7-C7BC-40D7-899C-2BB4722FA78C@hopewell.org.uk> Message-ID: hello Paul OK, did you check to see that the installation of VMWT completed under XP? When you run the VM is the CD image visible? Lynne On 6 Nov 2011, at 18:55, Paul Hopewell wrote: Hello, I am running Mac OS 10.7.2 with the latest version of VMWare fusion on my iMac. I have virtual machines for Windows XP and Windows 7 64 bit. The Windows 7 virtual machine works fine, but the Windows XP virtual machine keeps re-installing VM Tools every time I start it. It also keeps wanting to re-install some Adobe updates and some WIndowEyes updates which I had installed the last time I started it. It is behaving as if my virtual machine were not being updated on disk. Looking at VMWare preferences and Virtual Machine settings I cannot see any significant differences between Windows XP which has problems and Windows 7 which works OK. After Windows XP has re-installed everything yet again it works OK. Any ideas on what is happening? Many thanks. Paul Hopewell ======================================= The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html Or: you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: --------------------------------------- From grtdane at internode.on.net Tue Nov 8 20:08:17 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2011 07:08:17 +1100 Subject: News on Mountbatten Brailler In-Reply-To: <4EB97E95.8060808@techno-chat.net> References: <334B7604-2581-4E3C-BB0F-371B8975E455@internode.on.net> <67229EEC-AF2F-4FB4-8085-417BE4F8FFF4@gmail.com> <4EB97643.1040108@internode.on.net> <4EB97E95.8060808@techno-chat.net> Message-ID: Okay, well I can only assume that you didn't use some of the features of the Mountbatten Brailler to silence the embossing, for example you can slow the embossing speed down or turn the impact of the embosser down. There are a host of options for making the machine near whisper quiet including rubber mats and acoustic felt mats. On 09/11/2011, at 6:10 AM, chris hallsworth wrote: > You know, I used the Mountbatten Brailler myself at further education. I liked it, but it sure sounded like shots were being fired from an automatic rifle! Lol! Honestly, it was so loud that people stared at me thinking what the hell! Lol! > > On 08/11/2011 18:34, Dane Trethowan wrote: >> Yep, cost is an issue not only with the Mountbatten Brailler but >> embossers in general, I use mine here quite a bit though its not in use >> every day. >> >> The keyboard as I said has been described - not only by me but by others >> who have used the machine - as a "Classic" Braille keyboard and little >> strength is required to use the board. >> >> The other thing I find handy about the functionality of the Mountbatten >> is its completely programmable keyboard or "1 handed mode", I've used >> this whilst on a standard telephone before I had a headset and other >> facilities as it worked perfectly for me to take notes and so on. >> >> Since I posted the original message in this thread I've been assured! >> that all new and existing Mountbatten Brailler owners will to continue >> to receive the excellent technical and after sales support that >> Mountbatten Brailler clients are accustomed to,, I can vouch for that >> myself. >> >> >> >> On 9/11/2011 4:17 AM, Sarah Alawami wrote: >>> I remember that thing and used it a lot. Iwish though that it were not >>> so darned expensive ir I would get one as my hands cannot take the >>> pounding on a real brailler for long, yet I have to do it anyway lol! >>> On Nov 7, 2011, at 6:37 PM, Dane Trethowan wrote: >>> >>>> Hi! >>>> >>>> I was somewhat sadened to hear that the Mountbatten Brailler wasn't >>>> being developed by Quantum Technology in Australia any longer, >>>> manufacturing and development of this product has now moved to Europe. >>>> >>>> I suppose when I think about it I really shouldn't be at all >>>> surprised as the availability of parts was an issue here, I'm not >>>> sure whether that means that parts themselves were hard to source or >>>> whether the cost of importing them and making the product was the >>>> issue though the latter seems more likely. >>>> >>>> So what sort of future will the Mountbatten Brailler have? Well >>>> that's anyone's guess right now as far as I know, I knew a few plans >>>> the team in Australia had for this wonderful piece of equipment but >>>> now that's all been shelved. >>>> >>>> Perhaps we'll see a complete redesign of the product? That might be >>>> possible given that the basic design hasn't changed in 23 years and >>>> with that the technology for same. The basic design of the product in >>>> my view is quite good, best part of it is the sealed rubber membrane >>>> keyboard, you can "bash" away at it or press softly on it but >>>> whatever your preference that keyboard survives. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ======================================= >>>> >>>> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, >>>> virus and worm-free >>>> >>>> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's >>>> dedicated web pages located at >>>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat >>>> >>>> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat >>>> group at either of the following websites: >>>> >>>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html >>>> >>>> Or: >>>> >>>> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: >>>> >>>> >>>> --------------------------------------- >>> >>> ======================================= >>> >>> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, >>> virus and worm-free >>> >>> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's >>> dedicated web pages located at >>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat >>> >>> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat >>> group at either of the following websites: >>> >>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html >>> >>> Or: >>> >>> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: >>> >>> >>> --------------------------------------- >> > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- From tsiegel at softcon.com Fri Nov 11 05:12:50 2011 From: tsiegel at softcon.com (Travis Siegel) Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 00:12:50 -0500 Subject: diy is apparently back Message-ID: <003FD4B4-06FC-4F8D-B5F2-7C44F84EB9F9@softcon.com> Well, it looks like radioshack is finally getting back into the do it yourself mindset. A whole lot of stores have started carrying parallax parts. I bought parts to build an fm radio directly from parallax, because there's no radio shack near me carrying the parts, but even so, it's an excellent thing to see this happening. Maybe kids will begin building electronic equipment again, and we'll see an upsurge in creative thinking in this country, something that has been lacking for some time. Just for reference, if you'd like to build your own fm radio for 30 bucks, you too can purchase the parts from parallax at their website http://www.parallax.com. The direct link to the quickstart board with the fm receiver chip (saves about 10 bucks from purchasing them separately) is at: http://www.parallax.com/Store/Microcontrollers/ PropellerDevelopmentBoards/tabid/514/CategoryID/73/List/0/SortField/0/ Level/a/ProductID/773/Default.aspx I actually called their tech support department and they walked me through the building of this device. I have to say, it worked perfectly. I got it for my son to use as a project for school, and he had a ball with it until he broke the battery connector, so got to get that fixed, but otherwise, no issues at all with the kit. It comes with a propeller board (which is a very small board, with 8 cpus on it (they call them cogs) so multitasking is no trouble on this little bugger) Wiring up the fm receiver is a breeze, and this coming from someone who had never built an electronic device before, though lord knows I've improvised and built tons of other things nonelectronic). But, the fm radio building is as simple as bending two pin headers, attaching them to the proper pins on the fm receiver, putting the other ends in the propeller header (in the right location of course) putting the chip in the right spot on the pin header as well, attaching the battery clip, downloading the code to the propeller board, attaching the battery (after removing the usb programming cable) and poof, instant fm radio with touch buttons for station/ volume up/down, and a volume check button as well. The fm chip is pretty flexible though, and I'm going to purchase another one of these guys next month for my own use, and I'll add some code to it to change the fm range. It supports both us/europe ranges (87-108 mhz) and japan (76-91 mhz) or a world wide mode which goes from 76-108mhz. You can set how big of a step it takes when you press the up/down channel buttons (it obviously defaults to 200 KHZ since that's how far apart stations are in the us) but it can be changed all the way down to only 50 Khz if so desired. The chip even has an antenna pin on it for an external antenna if so desired, though the ear phones that come with the kit work fairly well as an antenna all by themselves, so it's neat, but not necessary. Since the entire pin header on the board is programmable, you can change coding to your heart's content, and you can drive the 8 touch buttons on the board as well. The radio code flashes the led above each button as you touch it so that you know it worked. This is one fantastic little board, and I'm seriously planning to build myself some other projects as well. If you purchase the ds1620 chip they have, you can even build yourself your own programmable thermostat since the chip has built-in temperature sensors, and the typical 3-wire setup most house thermostats use. Unfortunately, they no longer stock a tts module, or I'd build myself a talking thermometer that doubles as a thermostat for our house. I can get one from rc systems (remember the doubletalk) they have a chip version that can be integrated to the parallax products, but I think I'll wait and see if parallax comes out with another tts module, as I think the rc systems version is slightly expensive for my tastes. However, based on how simple this first project was to build, I'm seriously thinking about building myself several devices I can use, instead of looking for commercial alternatives. I'm sure the commercial ones would be cheaper, but at least if I build it myself, I don't have to toss it when it breaks, I can simply fix it myself, and to me, that means a whole lot more use out of it, so I'm all for it. Anyway, thought folks would find this interesting. If anyone wants to build this fm radio, and doesn't want to bother parallax with the details, I'm more than willing to talk anyone who wants to do the building through the process. It will probably take about 10-20 minutes the first time you do this, after that, it will take only a few minutes to put one together from scratch. Great fun, and I'm looking forward to many more projects using these guys for parts. :) From tsiegel at softcon.com Fri Nov 11 15:23:26 2011 From: tsiegel at softcon.com (Travis Siegel) Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 10:23:26 -0500 Subject: Talking Portable Document Readers In-Reply-To: <3A45E531-4BC9-449B-AC67-A316F4E441E4@mac-access.net> References: <3A45E531-4BC9-449B-AC67-A316F4E441E4@mac-access.net> Message-ID: What kind of documents are you talking about? Electronic ones such as readable ith ipod touch and ibooks, or something that reads paper documents? If the paper kind, I don't know enough to help, if the other kind, there's quite a few options available, though most are overpriced. From lynne at mac-access.net Fri Nov 11 17:54:17 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 17:54:17 +0000 Subject: Talking Portable Document Readers In-Reply-To: References: <3A45E531-4BC9-449B-AC67-A316F4E441E4@mac-access.net> Message-ID: Hello Travis I'm talking about a scanner/OCR/readeing machine that's stand-alone. Sorry I wasn't clear. So far response has been 0 in every place I've asked. So it would appear that what I am enquiring about is either pie in the sky or else I'm not doing too well at explaining. Lynne On 11 Nov 2011, at 15:23, Travis Siegel wrote: What kind of documents are you talking about? Electronic ones such as readable ith ipod touch and ibooks, or something that reads paper documents? If the paper kind, I don't know enough to help, if the other kind, there's quite a few options available, though most are overpriced. ======================================= The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html Or: you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: --------------------------------------- From tsiegel at softcon.com Sat Nov 12 01:45:12 2011 From: tsiegel at softcon.com (Travis Siegel) Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 20:45:12 -0500 Subject: Talking Portable Document Readers In-Reply-To: References: <3A45E531-4BC9-449B-AC67-A316F4E441E4@mac-access.net> Message-ID: Well, the only portable option of that sort I know about was demoed at the acb convention last time I went, which was a few years ago, when it was in louisville ky. (hopefully we can go again this year, since it's there again) I can't recall what it was called, or who had it, but it consisted of a small camera, and a plastic clear container which the paper was put under, then the camera would take a picture, and after a few seconds, it would begin reading the results. It was pretty good, but (imo) hideously expensive, which is why I don't recall any details. If you dispensed with the rather large plastic box, the unit probably would be at least somewhat portable, but I'm not clear on whether that's an option or not. Perhaps others can expand on this, if I joggged any memories loose. :) From lynne at mac-access.net Sat Nov 12 11:28:06 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 11:28:06 +0000 Subject: Talking Portable Document Readers In-Reply-To: References: <3A45E531-4BC9-449B-AC67-A316F4E441E4@mac-access.net> Message-ID: <631753DB-D537-429C-BCF8-09F712B92D1C@mac-access.net> Hello Travis I have been told that there are two other models at least now; one by Freedom Scientific which means it's probably not something we will consider, and the other by Kurzweil. I have a funny feeling that there might be something in the archives about this now I think about tit. Somebody mentioned this technology a while ago I gather and it might have been on this list. That is only something I have been told off list by another friend of ours who is a silent member (one of the many). But I'll have a look at the archives. To be honest, if it's going to create a host of problems for us, and or if it's a case of lugging around cameras, scanners, this,'s, that's and the other's, it's probably not worth the hassle. We want something portable and convenient, which you don't have to make a huge fuss of in order to use. So we will see. Thank you for your input. Lynne On 12 Nov 2011, at 01:45, Travis Siegel wrote: Well, the only portable option of that sort I know about was demoed at the acb convention last time I went, which was a few years ago, when it was in louisville ky. (hopefully we can go again this year, since it's there again) I can't recall what it was called, or who had it, but it consisted of a small camera, and a plastic clear container which the paper was put under, then the camera would take a picture, and after a few seconds, it would begin reading the results. It was pretty good, but (imo) hideously expensive, which is why I don't recall any details. If you dispensed with the rather large plastic box, the unit probably would be at least somewhat portable, but I'm not clear on whether that's an option or not. Perhaps others can expand on this, if I joggged any memories loose. :) ======================================= The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html Or: you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: --------------------------------------- From lynne at mac-access.net Sat Nov 12 12:42:40 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 12:42:40 +0000 Subject: PFC Message-ID: Hello everybody It came to our notice just yesterday that our Fax machine, copier / scanner & printer is no longer functioning properly. I looked in our in-tray and discovered that apparently people have been trying to send us faxes over the last 6 to 8 weeks, and all that we received was a huge pile of paper which contains garbage. The characters are printing properly, but the text is not legible. So it seems that the machine itself has developed a fault as even doing print-outs via a computer or taking photocopies is not working right either. The ink cartridges are fine, as they work perfectly well in my brother's HP PFC of a similar type. So the only option is the machine itself. We have also tried to send a few faxes out from here and not one of them has apparently reached its destination. The machine's internal logs show connection and transmission errors all over the place. It also explains why the supposedly infallible fax to email systems we've tried didn't work with our machine either. O obviously those transcend International borders but well, the recipients have been asking where they were and we couldn't understand it because we were under the impression that they had been sent. I am sure that people will suggest that we strip it down and try to fix it; but quite honestly it's not worth the hassle. It's old; it's going to cause problems and I'd far rather just dump the darn thing in a skip and go and buy a new one. OK, all that explained, next question. What's the market place like these days in regards this type of machine? It's likely as not going to be the case that we'll opt for something that's network-ready. As in it is probably going to have to be an AirPrint compatible machine. But I'm not looking for a toy, as it will have to serve business class needs. Any recommendations by any chance, please? Lynne From support at techno-chat.net Sat Nov 12 12:55:40 2011 From: support at techno-chat.net (Gordon & Lynne) Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 12:55:40 +0000 Subject: New Member Welcome Message-ID: Hello everybody It is traditional when new members join the Techno-Chat email forum that we try to welcome the new member(s) personally. In keeping with that tradition, we are delighted to welcome: Allyn Stansfield to our number. Anything related to technology is open for discussion in this group. Members frequently post links to interesting articles in this group. Whilst the primary function of Techno-chat is discussion, we recognise that these articles are often of value. That is why we encourage members to post links, rather than the full articles themselves, to the group. This way, members have the option of whether to follow up the articles, or to discard them. We hope that you will find Techno-Chat a pleasant, friendly and worthwhile place to be. if you have any list-related queries, please don't hesitate to contact either Gordon and myself, or our very able and capable assistant list controller Mary Stores, mstores at indiana.edu and we'll be pleased to help you. Lynne From hopewell at hopewell.org.uk Sun Nov 13 19:31:05 2011 From: hopewell at hopewell.org.uk (Paul Hopewell) Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2011 19:31:05 +0000 Subject: Problems installing VMWare tools on Windows XP Message-ID: <0E709BF2-401B-408C-A73D-D93D6067DF64@hopewell.org.uk> Hello, I am having problems installing VMWare tools on my Windows XP virtual machine using the latest version of VMWare fusion on Lion 10.7.2. the virtual machines menu item in the VMWare menu bar contains an item "Update VMWare tools". When I select that I get a dialogue saying that the VMWare tools virtual CD is being attached. the Windows installer then gets going to install VMWare tools but after a while it tells me that I have an error 1316 which says that there is a network error reading c:/windows/installer/vmwaretools.csi. I looked in that directory and c:/windows/installer is not there. As the install of VMWare tools did not complete the work done so far is rolled back and I get a message saying that VMWare tools have not been updated. The above happens every time I try the update VMWare tools menu item. . A side effect of all this is that VMWare tries to re-install VMWare tools every time I start the Windows XP virtual machine. If I cancel the attempt to install VMWare tools the Windows XP system seems to work fine. Any thoughts on what is wrong and what I can do about it? Is it a VMWare bug? Many thanks. Paul Hopewell From marrie12 at gmail.com Sun Nov 13 20:52:14 2011 From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah Alawami) Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2011 12:52:14 -0800 Subject: PFC In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I like the cannon models but I'll talk to my parents as they have a very good fax machine they use. It gets the job done and is used for my mom's business on a daily basis.. It's not a cannon but I'll ask later in my evening lol! On Nov 12, 2011, at 4:42 AM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: > Hello everybody > > It came to our notice just yesterday that our Fax machine, copier / scanner & printer is no longer functioning properly. I looked in our in-tray and discovered that apparently people have been trying to send us faxes over the last 6 to 8 weeks, and all that we received was a huge pile of paper which contains garbage. The characters are printing properly, but the text is not legible. So it seems that the machine itself has developed a fault as even doing print-outs via a computer or taking photocopies is not working right either. The ink cartridges are fine, as they work perfectly well in my brother's HP PFC of a similar type. So the only option is the machine itself. We have also tried to send a few faxes out from here and not one of them has apparently reached its destination. The machine's internal logs show connection and transmission errors all over the place. It also explains why the supposedly infallible fax to email systems we've tried didn't work with our machine eith > er. O obviously those transcend International borders but well, the recipients have been asking where they were and we couldn't understand it because we were under the impression that they had been sent. I am sure that people will suggest that we strip it down and try to fix it; but quite honestly it's not worth the hassle. It's old; it's going to cause problems and I'd far rather just dump the darn thing in a skip and go and buy a new one. > > OK, all that explained, next question. What's the market place like these days in regards this type of machine? It's likely as not going to be the case that we'll opt for something that's network-ready. As in it is probably going to have to be an AirPrint compatible machine. But I'm not looking for a toy, as it will have to serve business class needs. Any recommendations by any chance, please? > > Lynne > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- From lynne at mac-access.net Mon Nov 14 09:19:42 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 09:19:42 +0000 Subject: Problems installing VMWare tools on Windows XP In-Reply-To: <0E709BF2-401B-408C-A73D-D93D6067DF64@hopewell.org.uk> References: <0E709BF2-401B-408C-A73D-D93D6067DF64@hopewell.org.uk> Message-ID: <2387CF8F-E062-4477-87C7-5E40BA674EDE@mac-access.net> Paul Reading on the VMWare various outlets it seems that a lot of people have problems like this with XP under v4. They are working on a patch to fix it I gather. Lynne On 13 Nov 2011, at 19:31, Paul Hopewell wrote: Hello, I am having problems installing VMWare tools on my Windows XP virtual machine using the latest version of VMWare fusion on Lion 10.7.2. the virtual machines menu item in the VMWare menu bar contains an item "Update VMWare tools". When I select that I get a dialogue saying that the VMWare tools virtual CD is being attached. the Windows installer then gets going to install VMWare tools but after a while it tells me that I have an error 1316 which says that there is a network error reading c:/windows/installer/vmwaretools.csi. I looked in that directory and c:/windows/installer is not there. As the install of VMWare tools did not complete the work done so far is rolled back and I get a message saying that VMWare tools have not been updated. The above happens every time I try the update VMWare tools menu item. . A side effect of all this is that VMWare tries to re-install VMWare tools every time I start the Windows XP virtual machine. If I cancel the attempt to install VMWare tools the Windows XP system seems to work fine. Any thoughts on what is wrong and what I can do about it? Is it a VMWare bug? Many thanks. Paul Hopewell ======================================= The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html Or: you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: --------------------------------------- From lynne at mac-access.net Mon Nov 14 09:21:38 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 09:21:38 +0000 Subject: PFC In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2426DABA-1335-46E6-91B8-B7E7EFB14B03@mac-access.net> There are problems under Lion with all things Canon I gather. Besides which, the HP is far more versatile in my experience. But I am probably out of date. Lynne On 13 Nov 2011, at 20:52, Sarah Alawami wrote: I like the cannon models but I'll talk to my parents as they have a very good fax machine they use. It gets the job done and is used for my mom's business on a daily basis.. It's not a cannon but I'll ask later in my evening lol! From chris.hallsworth at techno-chat.net Mon Nov 14 20:19:56 2011 From: chris.hallsworth at techno-chat.net (chris hallsworth) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 20:19:56 +0000 Subject: Twitmonger Message-ID: <4EC177EC.6080306@techno-chat.net> I am using this fairly new project called Twitmonger, which is going to replace Qwitter hopefully in the near future. It works exactly the same as Qwitter, except it only supports Twitter. It is currently in the Alpha stages of development, so expect a few bugs when using the program. The website for those interested is at http://twitmonger.shaned.net. From djden at thejazzden.org.uk Mon Nov 14 20:46:30 2011 From: djden at thejazzden.org.uk (Thejazzden) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 20:46:30 +0000 Subject: Twitmonger In-Reply-To: <4EC177EC.6080306@techno-chat.net> References: <4EC177EC.6080306@techno-chat.net> Message-ID: <8D259B92-745B-451A-89C6-D67274B74D65@thejazzden.org.uk> Thanks for that, Chris . Welcome news. I was getting very frustrated with my recent Qwitter problems, but even more fed up with the interminable discussions of the rights and wrongs of blind people paying for software. Dennis. Dennis Freedman The best aromatherapy in the UK - www.e-nat.co.uk Sent from my iPhone On 14 Nov 2011, at 20:19, chris hallsworth wrote: > I am using this fairly new project called Twitmonger, which is going to replace Qwitter hopefully in the near future. It works exactly the same as Qwitter, except it only supports Twitter. It is currently in the Alpha stages of development, so expect a few bugs when using the program. The website for those interested is at http://twitmonger.shaned.net. > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- From chris.hallsworth at techno-chat.net Mon Nov 14 20:49:28 2011 From: chris.hallsworth at techno-chat.net (chris hallsworth) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 20:49:28 +0000 Subject: Twitmonger In-Reply-To: <8D259B92-745B-451A-89C6-D67274B74D65@thejazzden.org.uk> References: <4EC177EC.6080306@techno-chat.net> <8D259B92-745B-451A-89C6-D67274B74D65@thejazzden.org.uk> Message-ID: <4EC17ED8.1060901@techno-chat.net> This is why I changed. I had problems where Qwitter would have to be reauthorized by Twitter. So when I posted my tweet someone suggested I try Twitmonger. On 14/11/2011 20:46, Thejazzden wrote: > Thanks for that, Chris . Welcome news. I was getting very frustrated with my recent Qwitter problems, but even more fed up with the interminable discussions of the rights and wrongs of blind people paying for software. > Dennis. > > Dennis Freedman > The best aromatherapy in the UK - www.e-nat.co.uk > Sent from my iPhone > > > On 14 Nov 2011, at 20:19, chris hallsworth wrote: > >> I am using this fairly new project called Twitmonger, which is going to replace Qwitter hopefully in the near future. It works exactly the same as Qwitter, except it only supports Twitter. It is currently in the Alpha stages of development, so expect a few bugs when using the program. The website for those interested is at http://twitmonger.shaned.net. >> >> ======================================= >> >> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free >> >> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat >> >> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: >> >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html >> >> Or: >> >> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: >> >> >> --------------------------------------- > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- > From grtdane at internode.on.net Tue Nov 15 03:44:37 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 14:44:37 +1100 Subject: Accessible Twitter Clients on Multiple Platforms was Twitmonger In-Reply-To: <4EC17ED8.1060901@techno-chat.net> References: <4EC177EC.6080306@techno-chat.net> <8D259B92-745B-451A-89C6-D67274B74D65@thejazzden.org.uk> <4EC17ED8.1060901@techno-chat.net> Message-ID: Some people it would seem have a problem with this kind of software as its written around blind people rather than being a mainstream Windows Twitter client which is accessible. I myself can see both sides of the coin here as this sort of software can most often give more accessibility to blind people than a piece of mainstream Windows software made to be accessible but the fact is if it weren't for Qwitter and Twitmonger then people with a lack of vision would have next to nothing in the way of Twitter clients for Windows as far as I can tell. You can of course use the web interface at Twitter itself to manage your Tweets so all hope is not lost. I'm very glad to say that IOS and OSX platforms have a variety of accessible Twitter clients available from which to choose and I think the amount for IOS5 amounts to the "Dozens" . GW Micro have done their clients a good tern by building a Twitter client into the Braille/Voice Sense machines that they sell and I believe that there's an app which can be used with Window-Eyes as a Twitter client. On 15/11/2011, at 7:49 AM, chris hallsworth wrote: > This is why I changed. I had problems where Qwitter would have to be reauthorized by Twitter. So when I posted my tweet someone suggested I try Twitmonger. > > On 14/11/2011 20:46, Thejazzden wrote: >> Thanks for that, Chris . Welcome news. I was getting very frustrated with my recent Qwitter problems, but even more fed up with the interminable discussions of the rights and wrongs of blind people paying for software. >> Dennis. >> >> Dennis Freedman >> The best aromatherapy in the UK - www.e-nat.co.uk >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> >> On 14 Nov 2011, at 20:19, chris hallsworth wrote: >> >>> I am using this fairly new project called Twitmonger, which is going to replace Qwitter hopefully in the near future. It works exactly the same as Qwitter, except it only supports Twitter. It is currently in the Alpha stages of development, so expect a few bugs when using the program. The website for those interested is at http://twitmonger.shaned.net. >>> >>> ======================================= >>> >>> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free >>> >>> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at >>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat >>> >>> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: >>> >>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html >>> >>> Or: >>> >>> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: >>> >>> >>> --------------------------------------- >> >> ======================================= >> >> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free >> >> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat >> >> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: >> >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html >> >> Or: >> >> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: >> >> >> --------------------------------------- >> > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- From grtdane at internode.on.net Tue Nov 15 04:12:49 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane trethowan) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 15:12:49 +1100 Subject: 2 Bokes talking Tech Message-ID: <4EC1E6C1.70400@internode.on.net> Hi folks! Here's a very nice site if you want to keep up with all things tech Just listening to the review of the iPhone 4S now and its one of the best reviews I've heard thus far, really goes into detail of the iPhone 4S and why - if you can - you should upgrade, talks in detail about the processor and its speed, Camera, Siri etc. You can also hear 2 Blokes Talking Tech each Wednesday afternoon on -- sent from my HP Powerhouse Notebook. From lynne at mac-access.net Tue Nov 15 05:04:24 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 05:04:24 +0000 Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re=3A_Jawbone=AE_JamBox?= In-Reply-To: <8C13D986-CBEC-427C-85A9-A522B44D4A5F@internode.on.net> References: <5CB46F15-F6AC-4D49-B3FF-FAA2B4190B87@internode.on.net> <4DA40C45-6391-4DB1-AE1A-A4015124B990@mac-access.net> <475EDA6D-4993-4815-AB5D-7730311B7990@mac.com> <29040737-61DD-42AA-991E-B884BB775CFF@mac-access.net> <8C13D986-CBEC-427C-85A9-A522B44D4A5F@internode.on.net> Message-ID: <3B12A431-3576-46A7-A4C0-0ECE3A6A321F@mac-access.net> Hello Dane Even so, the Jambox discussion with the exception of the iPhone bit is better on this group. If it would be helpful to sufficient people I can investigate the apps side of it since the website isn't accessible. However, I have no intention of re-inventing the wheel and if it would be wasting my time I don't have enough of it to waste just now. :) So, if it's helpful I'm willing. If not, I won't bother since we can use the thing just fine and I'm learning, eventually, that the only way to get on in certain quarters is to act a little more selfishly; though it goes against my instinct. On 15 Nov 2011, at 04:56, Dane Trethowan wrote: Yep, its possible that apps may solve the noise cancelling problems that the Jambox suffers from, I'll look into that but the fact is - as is when you purchase the Jambox - it doesn't have any noise cancelling abilities and mutes the other end of a conversation when you're talking. This can be very annoying if you're talking with someone else on another hands free system. As I've stated I'm not deliberately singling out the Jambox in this regard as a common problem with probably the majority of "speakerphone" units on the planet today. I also stated that there are units which overcome this problem and - given that Jambox is an intelligent unit capable of being upgraded - then its quite possible that Jawbone may have written a fix for the problem. The Jambox does quite a good job given that the microphone is close to the speaker but there are better devices about when it comes to "Speakerphones. On 15/11/2011, at 3:38 PM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: > Hello Esther & Dane > > Esther; yes, on reflection I think you're right on that one, I didn't read that message in the right context. So I retract what I said regarding Dane's post being off topic. > > Actually though, transferring contacts isn't possible as far as I know at least not without an add-on. But my point was in response to Dane comments about the audio aspect. I've used it with great success and had absolutely no noise problems whatever. Then again possibly Dane needs super-high volume, I don't know. > > However, there are quite a few applications I gather for the Jambox and some of them relate to the iPhone but the website isn't the most accessible. I might have to try and mimic some of it for the convenience of users. > > Lynne > > On 15 Nov 2011, at 00:19, Esther wrote: > > Lynne, my reading of this section of Dane's post is that he is writing about the device he bought to use as a speakerphone with his iPhone in place of the Jambox. I don't have enough knowledge of that device (which isn't specified) to know whether his statement about problems transferring contacts via Bluetooth are incorrect for this device. Dane's other comments were his experience with using the Jambox for speakerphone functions when paired to his iPhone, so they do seem relevant. > > <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net ---> > > To reply to this post, please address your message to mac-access at mac-access.net > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Mac-Access forum at either the list's own dedicated web archive: > > or at the public Mail Archive: > . > Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from: > > > The Mac-Access mailing list is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free! > > Please remember to update your membership options periodically by visiting the list website at: > <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net ---> To reply to this post, please address your message to mac-access at mac-access.net You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Mac-Access forum at either the list's own dedicated web archive: or at the public Mail Archive: . Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from: The Mac-Access mailing list is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free! Please remember to update your membership options periodically by visiting the list website at: From allynstansfield at yahoo.co.uk Tue Nov 15 11:56:07 2011 From: allynstansfield at yahoo.co.uk (Allyn Stansfield) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 11:56:07 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Assistive Technology Message-ID: <1321358167.81081.YahooMailNeo@web24716.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Hi guys, ? Does anybody know of any good qualifications for Assistive Technology, or ITC Tecacher Training for Visually Impaired? I want to know about both?Assitive Technology Accreditations and qualifications and general ICT, that are suitable for Visually Impaired. ? Thanks. ? Allyn Stansfield. From marrie12 at gmail.com Wed Nov 16 00:59:34 2011 From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah Alawami) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 16:59:34 -0800 Subject: Well I feel proud of myself Message-ID: <1E71D213-3D50-4B95-818F-1052B1FA84D3@gmail.com> After a few days of frustration and crying, Ok not literally, I got my second of 3 wordpress installs set up. Now if I can only remember how i did it for my final one. They might not look too good visually but I made sure they load up as quickly as possibil, and are 100 percent accessible and are clean looking when you type links in. I"m no expert and am still learning but it works. and I almost don't have to code anything ever again. Take a look at my 2 examples. http://tffplmarrie.org and http://music.marrie.org. The second one is a rushed job as I want to have something put together so I can put my single release up there, when that gets done of corse lol! Take care all and it's back to reading a lot. Sarah Alawami If you need an edit done on a small project go to http://music.marrie.org/master for more info. If you need to contact me my info is below. MSN and AIM: marrie12 at gmail.com website: http://music.marrie.org Podcast: http://tffp.marrie.org/podcast youtube: http://youtube.com/marrie125 From lynne at mac-access.net Wed Nov 16 20:04:12 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 20:04:12 +0000 Subject: Adapter query Message-ID: <4A3EEB36-0177-4FD8-8DC6-EA9DCA940F99@mac-access.net> Hello everybody Anybody happen to know if it's possible to buy a parallel to Bluetooth? adapter? Or even a parallel to USB adapter? I've just about given up with the Keyspan USB adapter because of the fact that nothing I do with it will work. Windows sees the thing, but I can't get any data to go to the embosser so either we have the wrong type of cable or else something isn't doing what it should. We have used the thing in parallel mode before now and know that it works. So is it possible? The Bluetooth? adapter would be nice because we could then work wirelessly but you can't have everything. I made the stupid mistake of buying an Asus NetBook which doesn't have Bluetooth back in March of this year. That's not saying anything against the machines, I just didn't think about it at the time; I presumed they all had Bluetooth, obviously wrongly. Anyway I'll buy a Bluetooth dongle which will solve that problem. Not ideal, but it's better than nothing and there's no point in getting shot of the machine now because we'd lose too much money on it. Lynne From lynne at mac-access.net Wed Nov 16 20:18:25 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 20:18:25 +0000 Subject: NVDA Screen-reader now part of Infovox InKey version 3.0 Message-ID: <3B1A8755-BF6F-40E6-BEBF-E3B28C3D065E@mac-access.net> Hello everybody Some time ago, I bought Gordon a USB thumb drive which contains InfoVox 3.0 for Windows and 3 licenses. This is a very interesting device because it literally gives you accessibility on any Windows-based computer without the need to install any screen-reader on to the local machine. The device comes with the InfoVox voices in the languages or language of your choice. We have British English and US English licensed. All of the other voices are there but won't work unless you buy additional licenses. The device is seen by Windows as a standard thumb drive and contains auto-run scripts so that it starts talking as soon as you plug it in, if you have auto-play enabled on your machine. Therefore, you have accessibility absolutely everywhere just by plugging in the drive to a free USB port. NVDA runs directly from the USB drive but, if you prefer it, the free "Thunder" screen-reader is also supplied on the thumb drive. You can control all that from the InfoVox control panel on the thumb drive. This has allowed us to totally remove Window-Eyes from one of our laptops as it simply isn't needed any longer. It just works when we plug in the USB thumb drive and Gordon gets his favourite synthetic voices as well which is another boost. InfoVox InKey sells for the rather inflated price of ?240.00 here in the UK for a three-license pack. But given the fact that the desktop version costs ?170.00 excluding VAT at 20%, it's a worthwhile outlay if you want this product. Part of the thumb drive is writeable so you can perform any necessary upgrades. The 3 licenses are used if you want to install the programmes on a local machine rather than using the thumb drive. So you can install it on 3 machines and put the thumb drive away somewhere save. Another interesting tool that comes with it is the InfoVox web browser. We haven't quite got around to giving that a proper go yet; but it is claimed to be 100% accessible. I gather that it doesn't use MSAA which is probably a good thing. It must work along similar lines to VoiceOver on the Mac. There are other tools as well and they claim it to be a full accessibility suite that allows you to perform most common tasks. If anybody would like to know more about this and or has questions I haven't answered, I'm only too happy to try and provide more information. Lynne From tsiegel at softcon.com Wed Nov 16 23:02:13 2011 From: tsiegel at softcon.com (Travis Siegel) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 18:02:13 -0500 Subject: Adapter query In-Reply-To: <4A3EEB36-0177-4FD8-8DC6-EA9DCA940F99@mac-access.net> References: <4A3EEB36-0177-4FD8-8DC6-EA9DCA940F99@mac-access.net> Message-ID: Apparently they do exist. Here's one from comp usa for $7.99 http://www.compusa.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp? EdpNo=1699044&CatId=471 Then there's this page from tiger direct (the place I buy most of my computer peripherals) http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/category/category_slc.asp? CatId=471&SRCCODE=WEBGOONET&cm_mmc_o=mH4CjC7BBTkwCjCECjCE It also appears to be 7.99, though there's also a price there for 14.99, and 7.97, so hard to say if it's all referring to usb to paralel cables or not. Saw one on amazon too, so if these folks charge too much for shipping, you could always try amazon.uk. hth From lynne at mac-access.net Thu Nov 17 07:49:23 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 07:49:23 +0000 Subject: Adapter query In-Reply-To: References: <4A3EEB36-0177-4FD8-8DC6-EA9DCA940F99@mac-access.net> Message-ID: <5B9F1BFC-E72A-430B-8B04-8617E436C842@mac-access.net> Hello Travis Although the USA links won't help me much in terms of buying, thank you very much indeed for the confirmation. I am heartened by the response; that's why this list exists. Articles and things are absolutely fine, but the primary objective is to help one another. Oh, just one other thing; to confirm for anybody in the UK looking for Amazon, try this: I think you'll find that works. I'm actually going there soon to buy my Yamaha sound system for our bedroom. I'll talk about that when I get it. Again, many thanks to Travis for his excellent response to my post. Lynne On 16 Nov 2011, at 23:02, Travis Siegel wrote: Apparently they do exist. Here's one from comp usa for $7.99 http://www.compusa.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=1699044&CatId=471 Then there's this page from tiger direct (the place I buy most of my computer peripherals) http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/category/category_slc.asp?CatId=471&SRCCODE=WEBGOONET&cm_mmc_o=mH4CjC7BBTkwCjCECjCE It also appears to be 7.99, though there's also a price there for 14.99, and 7.97, so hard to say if it's all referring to usb to paralel cables or not. Saw one on amazon too, so if these folks charge too much for shipping, you could always try amazon.uk. From lynne at mac-access.net Thu Nov 17 12:27:40 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 12:27:40 +0000 Subject: New Sound System On Its Way! Message-ID: Hello everybody Those on our Mac-Access list will have seen the discussion on the iPhone 4S. Well, we've changed our minds because Gordon says he's perfectly happy with what he's got. So, instead, we've opted for a new sound system and I confess I'm quite pleased and excited. I have just ordered a new Yamaha TSX140 micro sound system. The specs look like the system is usable by a blind person but I'm a little concerned by the description of "Touch-Smart controls". I hope that doesn't mean a touch screen. Anyway, the price was lower than I'd expected so I ordered one. Should be here in a week or so. I'm quite excited because this thing has an iPod/iPhone dock, and it also has sync facilities. That might do what I want it to do better than the Squeezebox Boom which is a good device, but it's a little restrictive at times. Yes, a blind person can control it using something like iPeng HD on the iPad/iPhone. Gordon has done that alright. But it's a bit annoying at times when you just want quick access and it's a fiddle on to get what you want. Anyway, I am babbling. I'm hopeful that this new system will provide us with what we want in our room and it also gives us DAB radio. The Australian model has DAB+ which isn't in use over here as far as I know. But the UK version just has DAB and FM. On the radio side of it I'm a little surprised that it only has 5 presets for DAB and 5 for FM channels. That would seem a bit restrictive to me. But there again, I'm sure it will be easy to tune around and all of our listening is DAB anyway. I'll report back when we get this if anybody is at all interested. Lynne From lynne at mac-access.net Thu Nov 17 20:07:58 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 20:07:58 +0000 Subject: Yamaha TSX140 Message-ID: <53145411-CDAC-49E6-B721-767EA352F166@mac-access.net> Hello everybody Does anybody happen to know whether and, if so, where I may download any documentation on this micro-system? I've just ordered one earlier today and I would like to have a read before it arrives. It is scheduled to arrives on or around 26 November; but sometimes those schedules are way off the mark. I had that happen once, I was told it would take up to a week and then the item arrived in the mail the following afternoon. So it could be any time. I'm quite looking forward to it actually. Anyway I will give the list my impressions when it arrives. But if anybody does know where I can find the documentation, I would be very grateful. Lynne From roger.firman at btinternet.com Thu Nov 17 20:27:16 2011 From: roger.firman at btinternet.com (Roger Firman) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 20:27:16 -0000 Subject: Yamaha TSX140 In-Reply-To: <53145411-CDAC-49E6-B721-767EA352F166@mac-access.net> Message-ID: Dear Lynne, I just wonder if there might be any documentation on the Yamaha website? Regards, Roger. From lynne at mac-access.net Thu Nov 17 20:40:35 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 20:40:35 +0000 Subject: Yamaha TSX140 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <18D7AE18-B41A-4E42-88FE-D8EE1E7E598E@mac-access.net> Hello Roger Ah; I didn't know there was a Yamaha website. Oopse, sorry about that! I'll go and look. Lynne On 17 Nov 2011, at 20:27, Roger Firman wrote: ? I just wonder if there might be any documentation on the Yamaha website? From lynne at mac-access.net Thu Nov 17 21:22:23 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 21:22:23 +0000 Subject: Vipr Internet Security 2012 for Windows Message-ID: <0C7461C7-9806-4DBB-A203-94A64AE80553@mac-access.net> Hello everybody A major update to Vipre Antivirus has just been released and the product seems to have been renamed. It is now called Vipre Internet Security 2012. I just installed it on one of our laptops; and it looks quite nice. I'll play with it a bit more and then see if it's accessible and report back to the group. Lynne From grtdane at internode.on.net Fri Nov 18 10:57:30 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 21:57:30 +1100 Subject: Cumulus Weather Station Data software for Windows Message-ID: <7E11417C-5BC6-482C-A24F-60D68BC33AB4@internode.on.net> Love this software, quite accessible and its "Donation Ware" meaning that if you like it then you're asked if you wouldn't mind making a donation towards the continued development of Cumulus. You can find out more about Cumulus and download the software from I've ordered my weather station and hope to have it by early next week. So what does Cumulus do? It keeps records of data from your weather station and allows you to publish these records to various mediums which include a dedicated web page, Twitter and Weatherbug, the latter having quite an accessible app for the iPhone/iPad. Cumulus is quite accessible though you may need to do a little tweaking with your Windows Screen Reader if you plan to monitor the activities from within such as temperature changes and so on. You can set alarms which sound when conditions change. From roger.firman at btinternet.com Fri Nov 18 11:19:02 2011 From: roger.firman at btinternet.com (Roger Firman) Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 11:19:02 -0000 Subject: Weatherstations In-Reply-To: <7E11417C-5BC6-482C-A24F-60D68BC33AB4@internode.on.net> Message-ID: Which weatherstation are you getting? Roger. From lynne at mac-access.net Fri Nov 18 16:07:36 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 16:07:36 +0000 Subject: Cumulus Weather Station Data software for Windows In-Reply-To: <7E11417C-5BC6-482C-A24F-60D68BC33AB4@internode.on.net> References: <7E11417C-5BC6-482C-A24F-60D68BC33AB4@internode.on.net> Message-ID: We're actually interested in this as Gordon has a weather station that uses the weather sats over the UK and Europe. Those sats talk to the others in geo-stationary orbit around the globe so you can get full global data if you have the means. He's been meaning to write a web page to handle the input of data so may be this is good timing; it might solve a couple of problems. Lynne From lynne at mac-access.net Fri Nov 18 16:21:34 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 16:21:34 +0000 Subject: Network Time Server Message-ID: <633581E2-4DBA-494B-93F6-8759722BDB5C@mac-access.net> Hello everybody This seems an opportune moment to remind those who may have forgotten; and to inform those who don't know. If you're looking for a reliable always-on time server to sync your computers or other denies with, we run one here. It is UK based and runs on dedicated hardware. It isn't running on a PC or Mac, it's a dedicated piece of kit. We support both authenticated and unauthenticated NTPD protocols so any device could use it. We are now, believe it or believe it not, being used as a tine sync by one of the UK's largest banking institutions and that's why I say it may be an opportune moment. I am very proud of this achievement as it means we've been noticed by commerce! We are also now being used as a "backup" time sync by a large UK Internet provider. Anyway, if you want to use our service wherever you are in the world, you're welcome to do so. We run this purely as is, no charge, no nothing. Just point your device to either the server's hostname, which is: ntp.mac-access.net or to the server's true IP, which is: 109.224.207.179 We are accurate to within a tolerance of 200 micro-seconds of the atomic clock, and we synchronise with the atomic clock (primary) every 60 seconds and with the GPS satellite network (backup) every 3 minutes if the primary service does not respond. It is rare indeed that the primary doesn't respond, as we'd all be in a pretty pickle without it. ;-) Any questions, by all means contact me on or off list. Lynne From grtdane at internode.on.net Sun Nov 20 04:26:30 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 15:26:30 +1100 Subject: Logitech 360 Speaker Range Message-ID: <1A9AF5A0-DF74-4D5B-A3CA-37B5C3AD62FA@internode.on.net> Hi! Has anyone tried any of the Logitech 360 speaker range? They're not surround-sound systems but they are designed to bounce sound around a room so it can be enjoyed from wherever you are in a room rather than having to sit in front of the speakers as is usually the case. These 360 speakers must be fairly new, I'm a regular visitor to the Logitech site and today was the first time I've seen them mentioned. Logitech also has 360 speakers for laptop computers which I'm thinking of buying, I'm happy with the one's I have but if I can get something better and smaller than I'll certainly do it. You can see the 360 speaker range by going to the Logitech web site From grtdane at internode.on.net Mon Nov 21 15:49:56 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 02:49:56 +1100 Subject: Latest version of Window-Eyes version 7.1.2 Message-ID: <4ECA7324.4010905@internode.on.net> I'm playing with this now, was released a short time ago. Very glad to see that the problems with Thunderbird have been resolved though I'm not game to say its perfect right now , still prefer to use NVDA when using my mail client. -- Dane Trethowan From Melton Victoria Australia skype callto:grtdane12 MSN: grtdane at dane-trethowan.net From grtdane at internode.on.net Mon Nov 21 16:26:16 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane trethowan) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 03:26:16 +1100 Subject: Playing Bluray discs Message-ID: <4ECA7BA8.8010203@internode.on.net> Hi! I now have a number of these in my collection, not many but I'm in no doubt that the "Not Many" total will expand to something like "Quite A Few" in the not to distant future. There's nothing worse than having a small Bluray collection and no player to play them on so I started shopping. I tried one of the cheap Samsung players, seemed to work well however I had to wait! quite lengthy periods for the machine to "Boot". A friend of mine suggested what should have been very obvious at the start of this exercise, I had a HP Entertainment PC which just happens to feature a Bluray capable drive so why not play the movies on that? as it happens the machine can be hooked up easily to my surround-sound via the use of a HDMI cable from the HDMI port of the PC to a HDMI port on my surround-sound receiver so I get all the great benefits of Bluray High Definition surround-sound audio as well as the video, well I don't directly benefit from the video but I'm sure you get my drift. anyone once plugged in and set up I was pleasantly surprised, computer handles the discs far faster than does the Samsung, I'm so disgusted with the Samsung to be honest that I'll be taking the player back from where I bought it from and that's something I very rararely do. Perhaps the $800.00 Samsung player would have been faster though at $800.00? Well that's nearly what I paid for this HP Entertainment PC, I've pasted the specs as follows for your interest. product name: DV6-2119tx product number: wf606pa Processor: 1.6ghz Core I7 720QM (6mb cache). memory: 4gb (Max 4gb). Graphics: nvidia gt230m (1gb dedicated ram). display: 15.6in (1366x768). hard drive: 640gb (5400rpm). Optical drive: Blueray RW+dvd Super Multi. modem: 56kbps fax/modem. Network: 10/100/1000mbps. Wireless: 802.11b/g/n, Bluetooth 2.1. Sound: SRS Premium Sound (Altec Lansing speakers). Built inn digital tv tuner. keyboard/trackpad: standard keyboard plus numeric keypad, multitouch trackpad. slots: pc card (expresscard 54/34) integrated card reader (sd/mmc/ms/mspro/xd). ports: 4 usb 2.0 (1 shared with ESata), VGA, HDMI, IEEE1394 (firewire), RJ11 (network)/rj45 (modem), 2 headphone out, microphone in, consumer ir, digital antenna. operating system: windows 7 Home premium 32 bit. Also includes Targus premium leather carry case Now obviously that was a second-hand bargain I got myself for a grand, talk about give away . I chose this model because it had the built-in video tuner which works a treat with Windows Media Centre, I purchased a Windows 7 64-bit upgrade kit for an additional $30.00. This model is around 12 months old and the later models lack some features such as the video tuner, fax modem etc which made this machine even more attractive still, only real problem with it is the battery life which is very small and yep! the later models of HP have this problem dealt with but I figured that as I'm usually near a power outlet then battery life wouldn't worry me all that much and in any case, if I wanted portable power I had plenty of other things to do the job here like the Asus EEEPC Netbook etc. sent from my HP Powerhouse Notebook. From mstores at indiana.edu Mon Nov 21 17:47:24 2011 From: mstores at indiana.edu (Mary Stores) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 12:47:24 -0500 Subject: Assistive Technology In-Reply-To: <1321358167.81081.YahooMailNeo@web24716.mail.ird.yahoo.com> References: <1321358167.81081.YahooMailNeo@web24716.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20111121124724.mfuthyviss4kowgc@webmail.iu.edu> Hi Allyn Both GW Micro and Freedom Scientific have training you can go to where you can get certifications, but they mostly go to US cities. In addition, Freedom Scientific has started this new online certification, where you take a test online, and if you get 80% or higher, they send you a certificate and you somehow become JAWS certified. I don't know anything about VO. If this does not answer your question, please let me know. Your question was fairly vague. Assistive tech could include canes, which then you would need to become an O&M instructor. Mary Quoting Allyn Stansfield : > Hi guys, > ? > Does anybody know of any good qualifications for Assistive > Technology, or ITC Tecacher Training for Visually Impaired? I want to > know about both?Assitive Technology Accreditations and qualifications > and general ICT, that are suitable for Visually Impaired. > ? > Thanks. > ? > Allyn Stansfield. > From lynne at mac-access.net Tue Nov 22 13:13:33 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 13:13:33 +0000 Subject: Yamaha TSX-140 USB/DAB/DAB+/iPhone/iPod/Hi-Fi Is Here! Message-ID: <994925FC-ECAB-4A43-8164-349D96FCAE4F@mac-access.net> Hello everybody Sorry for the unusually lengthy subject line, I guess I just got a bit carried away. :) I'm pleased to say that our new Yamaha TSX-140 has just arrived. We haven't yet opened it, but looking at the owner's manual (which we now have in PDF format), (thank you Roger for pointing out the obvious to me), it looks like this machine will make an excellent replacement for our old amplifier which developed a fault recently and which would have cost us more than it was worth to have repaired. That unit has now been scrapped, as we didn't see much point in keeping it when there's no hope of it ever working properly again. Oh yes; and it seems only fair to point out that we came by this piece of equipment when another list member brought it to my attention earlier this year; and I'm grateful for that. I give him credit as well for locating a UK starting point. I'd have probably checked Amazon eventually but things were a bit difficult here at the time and that action did make things easier for me. Anyway, to the point. If anybody happens to be interested in our findings when we get the init up and running, I'll write what I can assure you will be an objective and unbiased review of it from both a performance and also an accessibility perspective. This machine has a USB port which, if I understand the brief part of the document I've so far read, allows you to mount an external hard drive or a memory stick which contains audio data. It also has iTunes sync which leads me to believe that it must have some kind of wireless network interface. Now, that in itself brings up questions; how, if indeed it is at all possible, can somebody who is visually impaired configure the unit for network access? I'll have to do some reading, but I suspect it must be necessary to use an LCD display to configure the interface. Anyway enough for now; I may write more later based on hands-on experience which is o obviously the best way to go. Lynne From lynne at mac-access.net Tue Nov 22 13:27:14 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 13:27:14 +0000 Subject: Multilingual PDF documents Message-ID: <80C4F053-B955-4E57-8691-94BA28A6C800@mac-access.net> Hello everybody Can anybody suggest a method of extracting only the English column out of a PDF document whose contents are multilingual? When I flagged the file to download I did so using only the English URL. But for some reason it's given me multilingual anyway. Using either OSX or Windows, if anybody has a solution to this problem I'd be grateful. I don't recall seeing a view option in Adobe Reader that only shows a preferred language, but it's possible I missed something. Lynne From mstores at indiana.edu Tue Nov 22 16:03:19 2011 From: mstores at indiana.edu (Mary Stores) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 11:03:19 -0500 Subject: Something for Allyn to consider Message-ID: <20111122110319.n9wtysi40skw0ko0@webmail.iu.edu> I came across this assistive tech class today and thought I would pass on the link to you. It's a "train the trainer" class concerning how to support people with disabilities or those assisting them. It covers accessibility features in the OS, screen readers, screen magnifiers, closed captioning, technology for people with learning disabilities and motor impairments., It is open for people from overseas to take it, and it is an entirely online course. The cost is $350 US, unless you are an EASI member. The link is http://easi.cc/workshops/train.htm Mary Mary Stores, Alternate Format and Web Accessibility Specialist UITS Adaptive Technology and Accessibility Centers Indiana University, Indianapolis and Bloomington 1320 E. 10th St. Wells Library, Room 101 Bloomington, IN 47405 (812) 856-2760 mstores at indiana.edu http://iuadapts.indiana.edu From allynstansfield at yahoo.co.uk Tue Nov 22 17:29:50 2011 From: allynstansfield at yahoo.co.uk (Allyn Stansfield) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 17:29:50 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Something for Allyn to consider In-Reply-To: <20111122110319.n9wtysi40skw0ko0@webmail.iu.edu> References: <20111122110319.n9wtysi40skw0ko0@webmail.iu.edu> Message-ID: <1321982990.84513.YahooMailNeo@web24713.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Hi Mary, ? This is of extreme interest to me, thank you for sharing it with me. I appreciate it greatly. ? Thanks. ? Kind Regards. ? Allyn Stansfield. From: Mary Stores To: techno-chat at techno-chat.net Sent: Tuesday, 22 November 2011, 16:03 Subject: Something for Allyn to consider I came across this assistive tech class today and thought I would pass on the link to you. It's a "train the trainer" class concerning how to support people with disabilities or those assisting them. It covers accessibility features in the OS, screen readers, screen magnifiers, closed captioning, technology for people with learning disabilities and motor impairments., It is open for people from overseas to take it, and it is an entirely online course. The cost is $350 US, unless you are an EASI member. The link is http://easi.cc/workshops/train.htm Mary Mary Stores, Alternate Format and Web Accessibility Specialist UITS Adaptive Technology and Accessibility Centers Indiana University, Indianapolis and Bloomington 1320 E. 10th St. Wells Library, Room 101 Bloomington, IN? 47405 (812) 856-2760 mstores at indiana.edu http://iuadapts.indiana.edu ======================================= The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html Or: you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.? The feed is at: --------------------------------------- From lynne at mac-access.net Tue Nov 22 19:10:37 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 19:10:37 +0000 Subject: Yamaha Lets Us Down! Message-ID: Hello everybody Well, it had to happen to us, didn't it. It's jut our luck! When Gordon and I sat down today and opened the new Yamaha TSX140 we discovered that the AC adapter was missing from the package. Therefore, the unit is useless. I have used the Amazon network to contact the seller in the hope that we can obtain an A.C. adapter easily. But if not, we'll have to mess around re-packaging the unit and send the whole thing back and then start again with another seller once we get our money back. So, although the unit looks very nice, has some amazing facilities and is really well constructed, I'm afraid it doesn't say much for yamaha's quality control; if things like that can slip through the net. yes, I know they'll be packaging millions of units. And yes, I know that in 99 cases out of a hundred this wouldn't happen. It's just our luck, absolutely typical for us that this kind of thing happens and at this moment we're both feeling very deflated and disappointed. We can only hope for the best, or else it's start over again time. Lynne From djden at thejazzden.org.uk Tue Nov 22 21:07:10 2011 From: djden at thejazzden.org.uk (Thejazzden) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 21:07:10 +0000 Subject: Yamaha Lets Us Down! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Lynne, very sorry to hear this - you don't have much luck sometimes. But if the Amazon seller is a good one, they should have no problem in sending a power supply out to you. I know that's no excuse at all, but if they can that would save yu a lot of trouble. Dennis. Dennis Freedman The best aromatherapy in the UK - www.e-nat.co.uk Sent from my iPhone On 22 Nov 2011, at 19:10, "Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith" wrote: > Hello everybody > > Well, it had to happen to us, didn't it. It's jut our luck! When Gordon and I sat down today and opened the new Yamaha TSX140 we discovered that the AC adapter was missing from the package. Therefore, the unit is useless. I have used the Amazon network to contact the seller in the hope that we can obtain an A.C. adapter easily. But if not, we'll have to mess around re-packaging the unit and send the whole thing back and then start again with another seller once we get our money back. > > So, although the unit looks very nice, has some amazing facilities and is really well constructed, I'm afraid it doesn't say much for yamaha's quality control; if things like that can slip through the net. yes, I know they'll be packaging millions of units. And yes, I know that in 99 cases out of a hundred this wouldn't happen. It's just our luck, absolutely typical for us that this kind of thing happens and at this moment we're both feeling very deflated and disappointed. We can only hope for the best, or else it's start over again time. > > Lynne > > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- From grtdane at internode.on.net Tue Nov 22 23:02:19 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 10:02:19 +1100 Subject: Yamaha TSX-140 Message-ID: <753D0139-8607-417C-BAA0-93E673C162F7@internode.on.net> Sorry to hear about the power supply, I had something similar happen with a Yamaha Surround-Sound system I recently bought, the microphone for the auto calibration feature was missing, a call to my local electrical store where I bought the product set in chain the motion of events which lead to me receiving a replacement microphone in the mail so perhaps you could contact the Amazon seller concerned and tell them what's happened. I have the model of yamaha desktop Hi-Fi below the one you have, that is the TSX-130 and it has a built-in power supply, that is to say it has a power cord protruding from the rear left side. I can understand why Yamaha chose to use an external supply, firstly given the size of the unit, obviously if the unit doesn't have the supply built-in then Yamaha can put more electronics into the same size. seems lots of company's are opting for this approach, my HP 8500a+ printer has an external supply and its enormous! even bigger than the HP power supply that handles my HP Multi Media PC Notebook and that's getting to house-brick size. From lynne at mac-access.net Wed Nov 23 11:10:07 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 11:10:07 +0000 Subject: Yamaha Lets Us Down! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7D0A8B0E-F6DA-41FF-8EB1-5170ED1C57F9@mac-access.net> hello Dennis They are trying to say we need to call Yamaha customer services and deal with this ourselves. But I've told them that we regard this as an issue between ourselves and the seller. I have given them 2 options; resolve this quickly, or else I arrange a RMA and buy from somewhere else. I know that there are probably some who find our current situation very amusing. I can only say to those people, I hope it happens to them some time. I am disappointed because this was supposed to be a kind of pick-me-up for Gordon; and now it's all gone wrong! Lynne On 22 Nov 2011, at 21:07, Thejazzden wrote: Hello Lynne, very sorry to hear this - you don't have much luck sometimes. But if the Amazon seller is a good one, they should have no problem in sending a power supply out to you. I know that's no excuse at all, but if they can that would save yu a lot of trouble. From lynne at mac-access.net Wed Nov 23 11:20:39 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 11:20:39 +0000 Subject: Yamaha TSX-140 In-Reply-To: <753D0139-8607-417C-BAA0-93E673C162F7@internode.on.net> References: <753D0139-8607-417C-BAA0-93E673C162F7@internode.on.net> Message-ID: Hello Dane Yes, I've done that. They are trying to tell me that I need to go to Yamaha as this was a sealed unit. But I'm not having that; they either replace the supply, replace the entire unit or give us a refund and I'll go somewhere else. I'm disappointed as I said in my previous message because of the reason this was bought now. The specs of the machine look amazingly good, and currently it's a brick; all be it a nice looking brick. :) The unit is constructed within a black teak case, and the top unit is touch-sensitive so that, for instance, if you press lightly on the top for 3 seconds, the display goes dim and it goes into power-saver mode. I'm not sure whether DAB+ is available over here now because the UK model does have DAB+ on it. So possibly it's a new standard being trialed because it seems to use that by default. I am going to scan the manual if I can find a way to make our scanner work. it doesn't seem to like Lion so I may have to go Windows. But currently we're frustrated because the machine is sitting there and we cannot use it. As for the supply, it must, Gordon thinks, be an intelligent supply because the connector is a 30-pin connector and it's about the size of an HDMI connector. The external antenna uses an S-connector similar to that which our satellite box uses. I'm not sure how it works for FM radio but that looks like a band3 antenna like a dipole for digital reception. I suppose it must use that for FM as well. There are digital audio sockets on the back, I presume they are outputs but I'm not sure. Anyway we'll have to see what happens but it's looking likely that we'll be stuck until at least next week. Lynne On 22 Nov 2011, at 23:02, Dane Trethowan wrote: Sorry to hear about the power supply, I had something similar happen with a Yamaha Surround-Sound system I recently bought, the microphone for the auto calibration feature was missing, a call to my local electrical store where I bought the product set in chain the motion of events which lead to me receiving a replacement microphone in the mail so perhaps you could contact the Amazon seller concerned and tell them what's happened. I have the model of yamaha desktop Hi-Fi below the one you have, that is the TSX-130 and it has a built-in power supply, that is to say it has a power cord protruding from the rear left side. I can understand why Yamaha chose to use an external supply, firstly given the size of the unit, obviously if the unit doesn't have the supply built-in then Yamaha can put more electronics into the same size. seems lots of company's are opting for this approach, my HP 8500a+ printer has an external supply and its enormous! even bigger than the HP power supply that handles my HP Multi Media PC Notebook and that's getting to house-brick size. From support at techno-chat.net Wed Nov 23 11:24:46 2011 From: support at techno-chat.net (Gordon & Lynne) Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 11:24:46 +0000 Subject: Please don't send us greetings! Message-ID: Hello everybody A couple of times over the last day or two we have received greetings from members sent to the support at techno-chat.net and support at mac-access.net addresses. Would you please refrain from using these addresses for this purpose; it's not what they are here for. In actual fact, we don't particularly want our own addresses used by these greetings sites; so please don't use them full stop. We started getting swamped when we had our old addresses by these things; we don't want the same to happen again. So please, all members, do not submit the support addresses to these sites. Thank you for your cooperation. Lynne From grtdane at internode.on.net Wed Nov 23 11:55:39 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 22:55:39 +1100 Subject: Yamaha Lets Us Down! In-Reply-To: <7D0A8B0E-F6DA-41FF-8EB1-5170ED1C57F9@mac-access.net> References: <7D0A8B0E-F6DA-41FF-8EB1-5170ED1C57F9@mac-access.net> Message-ID: Well if you want to make a mountain out of a molehill that's your call but it sounds common sense to me, I've dealt with Yamaha Customer Service here before, all I had to do was to provide proof of purchase and that was easy enough done, my problem was sorted in minutes. On 23/11/2011, at 10:10 PM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: > hello Dennis > > They are trying to say we need to call Yamaha customer services and deal with this ourselves. But I've told them that we regard this as an issue between ourselves and the seller. I have given them 2 options; resolve this quickly, or else I arrange a RMA and buy from somewhere else. > > I know that there are probably some who find our current situation very amusing. I can only say to those people, I hope it happens to them some time. > > I am disappointed because this was supposed to be a kind of pick-me-up for Gordon; and now it's all gone wrong! > > Lynne > > > On 22 Nov 2011, at 21:07, Thejazzden wrote: > > Hello Lynne, very sorry to hear this - you don't have much luck sometimes. But if the Amazon seller is a good one, they should have no problem in sending a power supply out to you. I know that's no excuse at all, but if they can that would save yu a lot of trouble. > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- From grtdane at internode.on.net Wed Nov 23 11:56:09 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 22:56:09 +1100 Subject: Yamaha TSX-140 In-Reply-To: References: <753D0139-8607-417C-BAA0-93E673C162F7@internode.on.net> Message-ID: <8DBE01A8-427F-4513-B268-FAB998A5AB4E@internode.on.net> Its only a phone call. On 23/11/2011, at 10:20 PM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: > Hello Dane > > Yes, I've done that. They are trying to tell me that I need to go to Yamaha as this was a sealed unit. But I'm not having that; they either replace the supply, replace the entire unit or give us a refund and I'll go somewhere else. > > I'm disappointed as I said in my previous message because of the reason this was bought now. The specs of the machine look amazingly good, and currently it's a brick; all be it a nice looking brick. :) > > The unit is constructed within a black teak case, and the top unit is touch-sensitive so that, for instance, if you press lightly on the top for 3 seconds, the display goes dim and it goes into power-saver mode. I'm not sure whether DAB+ is available over here now because the UK model does have DAB+ on it. So possibly it's a new standard being trialed because it seems to use that by default. I am going to scan the manual if I can find a way to make our scanner work. it doesn't seem to like Lion so I may have to go Windows. > > But currently we're frustrated because the machine is sitting there and we cannot use it. As for the supply, it must, Gordon thinks, be an intelligent supply because the connector is a 30-pin connector and it's about the size of an HDMI connector. The external antenna uses an S-connector similar to that which our satellite box uses. I'm not sure how it works for FM radio but that looks like a band3 antenna like a dipole for digital reception. I suppose it must use that for FM as well. There are digital audio sockets on the back, I presume they are outputs but I'm not sure. Anyway we'll have to see what happens but it's looking likely that we'll be stuck until at least next week. > > Lynne > > On 22 Nov 2011, at 23:02, Dane Trethowan wrote: > > Sorry to hear about the power supply, I had something similar happen with a Yamaha Surround-Sound system I recently bought, the microphone for the auto calibration feature was missing, a call to my local electrical store where I bought the product set in chain the motion of events which lead to me receiving a replacement microphone in the mail so perhaps you could contact the Amazon seller concerned and tell them what's happened. > > I have the model of yamaha desktop Hi-Fi below the one you have, that is the TSX-130 and it has a built-in power supply, that is to say it has a power cord protruding from the rear left side. > > I can understand why Yamaha chose to use an external supply, firstly given the size of the unit, obviously if the unit doesn't have the supply built-in then Yamaha can put more electronics into the same size. > > seems lots of company's are opting for this approach, my HP 8500a+ printer has an external supply and its enormous! even bigger than the HP power supply that handles my HP Multi Media PC Notebook and that's getting to house-brick size. > > > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- From lynne at mac-access.net Wed Nov 23 13:35:17 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 13:35:17 +0000 Subject: Yamaha Lets Us Down! In-Reply-To: References: <7D0A8B0E-F6DA-41FF-8EB1-5170ED1C57F9@mac-access.net> Message-ID: <83D3CD13-1FA1-41E2-B28F-0576CF284E02@mac-access.net> Hello Dane I don't think you quite understand here. There is a legal obligation on the seller, under UK law, to provide or replace missing or damaged components. I don't like being short changed. Besides which, I don't happen to have the details of how to contact them. I can certainly look for them on their UK website but we'll see. Lynne On 23 Nov 2011, at 11:55, Dane Trethowan wrote: Well if you want to make a mountain out of a molehill that's your call but it sounds common sense to me, I've dealt with Yamaha Customer Service here before, all I had to do was to provide proof of purchase and that was easy enough done, my problem was sorted in minutes. On 23/11/2011, at 10:10 PM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: > hello Dennis > > They are trying to say we need to call Yamaha customer services and deal with this ourselves. But I've told them that we regard this as an issue between ourselves and the seller. I have given them 2 options; resolve this quickly, or else I arrange a RMA and buy from somewhere else. > > I know that there are probably some who find our current situation very amusing. I can only say to those people, I hope it happens to them some time. > > I am disappointed because this was supposed to be a kind of pick-me-up for Gordon; and now it's all gone wrong! > > Lynne > > > On 22 Nov 2011, at 21:07, Thejazzden wrote: > > Hello Lynne, very sorry to hear this - you don't have much luck sometimes. But if the Amazon seller is a good one, they should have no problem in sending a power supply out to you. I know that's no excuse at all, but if they can that would save yu a lot of trouble. > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- ======================================= The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html Or: you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: --------------------------------------- From lynne at mac-access.net Wed Nov 23 14:07:16 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 14:07:16 +0000 Subject: Yamaha Contacted Message-ID: Hello everybody OK, let's see if it does any good. I've been on to their website and contacted Yamaha with the relevant information. They might get back to us asking for proof of purchase; that' no problem. But I've already given them the serial number and company where I bought it. So, OK, let's see if I really was making a mountain out of a molehill, as Dane puts it. Possibly i was; but you have to appreciate the amount of stress I am currently under and the amount of money involved here to understand why things look much worse than they maybe are. I won't waffle on about that, but I hope this gets fixed quickly. Lynne From grtdane at internode.on.net Wed Nov 23 14:39:09 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 01:39:09 +1100 Subject: Yamaha Contacted In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7B87C065-6529-4B2E-96F4-D89467989C24@internode.on.net> That should be all you need, that's all I gave them here but of course that means nothing these days. On 24/11/2011, at 1:07 AM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: > Hello everybody > > OK, let's see if it does any good. I've been on to their website and contacted Yamaha with the relevant information. They might get back to us asking for proof of purchase; that' no problem. But I've already given them the serial number and company where I bought it. So, OK, let's see if I really was making a mountain out of a molehill, as Dane puts it. Possibly i was; but you have to appreciate the amount of stress I am currently under and the amount of money involved here to understand why things look much worse than they maybe are. > > I won't waffle on about that, but I hope this gets fixed quickly. > > Lynne > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- From martin at x.it.okstate.edu Wed Nov 23 15:21:46 2011 From: martin at x.it.okstate.edu (Martin McCormick) Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 09:21:46 -0600 Subject: Yamaha Contacted Message-ID: <201111231521.pANFLkhQ020432@x.it.okstate.edu> Two comments. I bet the sound systems come from Yamaha's factory and the power supplies come from other places depending upon who Yamaha contracts to build their power supplies for all the various world markets. Even if that's not the case, they may ship the correct power supplies all over the plannet so that a reseller needs only grab one sound system off the shelf and a power supply off another shelf and they are good for their part of the world. Making one call Yamaha seems like an extra hassle, but that may be some form of quality control that Yamaha enforces so that they know when there is a problem. If that is the case, they may turn right around and contact your seller to get them to send out the UK supply to you. It also may be that none of this is true and that retail sales folk are as stupid and clueless as they sometimes appear to be and there is no good reason at all for this. There. I've covered all bases. I certainly don't see anything amusing about situations like this. I haven't had many things of that type happen, but it is so utterly annoying when they do. Martin From tsiegel at softcon.com Wed Nov 23 15:40:17 2011 From: tsiegel at softcon.com (Travis Siegel) Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 10:40:17 -0500 Subject: Yamaha Contacted In-Reply-To: <201111231521.pANFLkhQ020432@x.it.okstate.edu> References: <201111231521.pANFLkhQ020432@x.it.okstate.edu> Message-ID: <3FD936D9-530A-4ABC-9429-5F990E471A97@softcon.com> It certainly is irritating when you purchase something, then have to urchase additional things to make it work. Case in point, a year or so ago, we'd urchased a $250 2-wheeled scooter from walmart. It was the last one, so we got the floor model. Whatever genius at walmart assembled the thing simply put the innertube into the tire, and slapped the tire on the scooter, not bothering to line up the innertube stem with the hole in the rim. So, we had a thoroughly flat tire, a broken innertube stem, and an extremely irritated pair (me and my wife both) It was easily fixed, simply purchase another innertube, replace the broken one, and poof, all done. We returned it instead, partly because the customer service was so poor, (when explaining the problem, and asking if they could/would do anything, we were told absolutely not) since it was a floor model, and they are sold as is. I'd have been ok with that as a whole, but in addition, when explaining the problem, the customer service rep paid no attention at all to us, ignored us entirely even, and afterwords asked why we were returning the item, when I'd specifically started the conversation with the words I'm not interested in returning it if we can get it fixed. Needless to say, we never purchased anything other than groceries from that walmart ever again. Though, since we've moved away from that town, it's no longer an issue, but it's just frustrating when such things occur. The assembly was what broke it, not it's being a floor model, so it was clearly the store's fault it was broken, not a customer who was fiddling with it after the fact. But, I've already decided customer service no longer exists. The radio shack here in town is an independent owned store, so he isn't required to carry anything he doesn't think will sell. I've been in there a few times asking for different items. I regularly get told that they get a lot of requests for such things, but that they don't carry them. What ever happened to if the customer wants it, we will carry it. Just plain stupidity, it's no wonder consumers are fed up with our current-day retail establishments. In one store (very similar to Sams) where you must pay a membership fee to shop there, I was actually told by a manager once when asking if they could carry a particular type of laptop (they already had some, just not ones with the features I was looking for at the time) that they couldn't have their members dictate what they sold. I was speechless for several minutes after that coment, since the whole reason the store exists is because members pay a fee to belong to the stupid thing giving them the ability to shop there. And yet, I'm being told members have no say in what gets sold there? The insanity of it all was just too much. Again, needless to say, I will no longer shop at one of those stores either. (we moved away from there too, but that was much longer ago) :) Anyway, the point of all this rambling is that if you find a company that actually offers customer service, grab it with both hands, and hang on as tight as possible, because in today's world, those kinds of place are few and far between. From lynne at mac-access.net Wed Nov 23 18:47:14 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 18:47:14 +0000 Subject: Yamaha Contacted In-Reply-To: <7B87C065-6529-4B2E-96F4-D89467989C24@internode.on.net> References: <7B87C065-6529-4B2E-96F4-D89467989C24@internode.on.net> Message-ID: <5D033D5A-1297-4AAF-A77B-1B013890BEDC@mac-access.net> Hello Dane I don't quite understand that comment. By the way; Tracy has asked me to ask you if you have any objection to her contacting you privately about something. She says she does not wish to intrude. Lynne On 23 Nov 2011, at 14:39, Dane Trethowan wrote: That should be all you need, that's all I gave them here but of course that means nothing these days. From lynne at mac-access.net Wed Nov 23 19:44:31 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 19:44:31 +0000 Subject: Yamaha Contacted In-Reply-To: <201111231521.pANFLkhQ020432@x.it.okstate.edu> References: <201111231521.pANFLkhQ020432@x.it.okstate.edu> Message-ID: <80796B73-0BEF-4BD8-96D1-B4C68470396B@mac-access.net> Hello Martin & everybody I'm told that the various models are packaged in regional operations centres. Yamaha Europe is, for example, based in Germany. They box them as they receive the various models from the Yamaha production centre in China. The suppliers buy them in bulk , and wholesale them to the sellers around Europe. The UK model is unique in as much as it is supplied with 2 power cables; this is because the UK uses a different form of power outlet to continental Europe. Our plugs are configured in a triangular formation where the left-hand pin is neutral, the right-hand pin is live (where the fuse is located) and the top pin is the earth terminal. The European plugs use two round pins which are interchangeable. The earth, where it's used, is via the outer casing of the plug itself and there is no fuse in the plug. I believe that the US and Canada, along with Australia, New Zealand and Asia, receive their imports direct from the main factory in China. I am not sure how they handle their packaging because obviously the US and Canadian power supplies are different. I'd imagine it's the same supply, but with a couple of modifications to accommodate the different power settings. Australia does things the sensible way, as we do and most of the rest of the world does. We all use the same power configurations which I'm sure makes things easier for manufacturers. Although the plug configurations are different, that doesn't really, I'd imagine, pose much of a problem since the only differences would be in the manufacturing of the power cables which would be done in bulk anyway probably by a different company. Anyway, as I said, I used the Yamaha website. I don't particularly fancy incurring the expense of having to make lengthy phone calls overseas. That was my initial tripe, which it seems others don't agree with. Maybe I'm just more fussy; maybe I just watch the pennies more than some. But I did not see why I should have this mess to sort out. Under UK law, the seller has an obligation to ensure that defective, missing or wrongly included components are replaced as per the consumer's request. The consumer has the right to cancel the contract of purchase within 14 days if they are not happy with their product for any reason. The seller has the right to insist that the goods be returned to them in saleable condition. However, in the case of sealed plastic packaging, anybody with a grin of common sense can see that it just isn't possible to return them as they were originally packed. Perhaps predictably, the Yamaha and other such items all ship with plastic-packaged power cables, antenna leads, remote controls, etc. None of which can be opened without damaging the packaging material. Therefore, when you return them, they are not in saleable condition and its quite common for sellers to either charge the consumer to have the items re-packaged or to reject them on the grounds that they cannot sell them again. In our case, the box was slightly damaged when we were unpacking the item. My fault, as my finger accidentally caught part of the package and it tore about 2 inches of cardboard as I lifted the machine itself out of its box. It was encased in polystyrene and for obvious reasons it was very tightly packed. But we're hoping that this can be resolved without having to return the unit to base. I'm perfectly happy to accept a new AC adapter, rather than having to replace the entire package. I'm not trying to be unreasonable and I do understand that this wasn't the fault of the seller. It was a sealed package so how could they possibly be expected to know! All I'm asking is what I'm entitled too as a paying customer. This item cost me in excess of ?340.00 Sterling which, in these difficult financial ties, is not a small amount of money. It isn't to much to ask that after-sale service be provided where required. I was accused of such things as "Making mountains out of molehills". Well, to be honest I don't consider a missing component as a small matter when you're talking about that kind of outlay. It's also a pretty poor advertisement for Yamaha's quality control at their European packaging centre in Germany. A power supply is a pretty major item within the context of the unit as a whole; don't you think? Had it just been a cable that was missing such as, for instance, the power cable, I don't think I'd have been too worried. The power cable itself is just a standard two-pin cable as used on most portable devices and even some video machines and hi-fi units. I'd have just laughed that off and said OK, it's not there; but it's not worth getting in touch with them about other than to make a general comment. The cable is easily replaced, we have quite a few of them kicking around. But the AC adapter, that's a very different matter. It's system-specific it seems, as it's apparently an intelligent supply. So therefore, you have no option but to use theirs. Anyway, I've made my point I think. I understand why some people may consider my complaint trivial. perhaps to them, it might be. That's fair enough; just depends on your outlook. I totally agree that it isn't exactly life and death and it's not the end of the world. But within the context of the unit, it's critical. That was my only point; along with the fact that I could have done without the hassle. I'm sure that, one way or the other, we'll end up with a working unit and I am sure Gordon will be thrilled to bits with it. It's just the short term inconvenience. Lynne On 23 Nov 2011, at 15:21, Martin McCormick wrote: ? I bet the sound systems come from Yamaha's factory and the power supplies come from other places depending upon who Yamaha contracts to build their power supplies for all the various world markets. Even if that's not the case, they may ship the correct power supplies all over the plannet so that a reseller needs only grab one sound system off the shelf and a power supply off another shelf and they are good for their part of the world. Making one call Yamaha seems like an extra hassle, but that may be some form of quality control that Yamaha enforces so that they know when there is a problem. If that is the case, they may turn right around and contact your seller to get them to send out the UK supply to you. It also may be that none of this is true and that retail sales folk are as stupid and clueless as they sometimes appear to be and there is no good reason at all for this. There. I've covered all bases. I certainly don't see anything amusing about situations like this. I haven't had many things of that type happen, but it is so utterly annoying when they do. Martin ======================================= The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html Or: you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: --------------------------------------- From lynne at mac-access.net Wed Nov 23 22:45:18 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 22:45:18 +0000 Subject: Yamaha TSX-140; My Persistence Paid Dividends! Message-ID: Hello everybody Ok, this time, Lynne got it right. I've just received an email from Amazon Marketplace, informing her that she was absolutely correct that she (I) have an indisputable right under United Kingdom consumer legislation that, in the circumstance that a delivery is damaged, incorrect or partially missing, the consumer has the absolute right to receive an immediate replacement or refund on the items or item in that delivery which are damaged, incorrect, incorrectly labelled or missing. Amazon Marketplace apparently takes the conduct of their sellers extremely seriously and they contacted the specific seller on my behalf, having been made aware of the circumstances. I was contacted just before 21:00 this evening via email by the sales manager of the company. I have been offered, and have accepted, a full and formal apology on behalf of the company for the attitude of their sales representative who clearly failed in his duty, in the words of the manager, to the customer on this occasion. Upon being informed of the absence of such a vital component as a power supply, the sales representative should have immediately telephoned, not emailed 3 hours later (as apparently he did), the suppliers and arranged for a replacement unit or a replacement power supply to be shipped to us. Apparently his email to the supplier contained only details of the consignment and a request to check to see if they could trace the packaging to be sure that there was a power supply packed. That is absolutely wrong, they are supposed to put the matter right immediately. Instead, as I've already told you, he requested that I contact Yamaha customer services and resolve the issue myself. I am told this is against both company policy and also Amazon Marketplace's seller's code of conduct to which the company signed up before joining the seller's group. By way of compensation for the inconvenience and the unnecessary hassles they caused me, they have now had their supplier ship to me by express courier a replacement power adapter, and they have also arranged for me to be enrolled to Yamaha's five-year extended warranty scheme free of charge. That's to compensate for the inconvenience. Had I simply telephoned Yamaha as per their request, it would have taken some time to get the new power adapter shipped as they are in Germany. I would imagine that the actual shipment would have been via the same supplier; but arranging it and so forth would have taken time. I would also not have received the free warranty enrolment or the apology. Sometimes complaining is the best option; although I don't like having to do it, and do it only when necessary. Had it been something small like a power cable, I wouldn't have bothered. It is just unfortunate that the unit won't work without the dedicated supply. Now; the machine itself. Dane; if you're reading this, can you tell me whether yours has the same functions as this one in terms of available modes? This one has a CD slot, top-loaded, iPhone/iPod dock which looks like it will handle either an iPhone 4 or an iPhone 3GS along with any iPod. I know your radio is the same; DAB/DAB+ and FN. I was a little surprised to find that there are only 5 presets per mode. Seems a bit restrictive. I don't know whether Gordon will be able to use the alarm functions, and I'm not quite sure as yet how you set the clock. Ours has Toslink and optical audio inputs, (I think they're inputs anyway), and a touch-sensitive top panel which has a few functions; including setting the power saver mode. I am going to have a good read of the user manual which, I'm bound to say, goes against the grain. :) But I feel this is one of those occasions where it will be helpful I think. But I'm very interested to know what the differences are between this and the previous model. The remote control, though quite small, has nicely pronounced buttons and I'm sure it won't take a lot of getting used too for Gordon. Anyway hopefully all's well that ends well. Lynne From djden at thejazzden.org.uk Thu Nov 24 00:02:34 2011 From: djden at thejazzden.org.uk (Thejazzden) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 00:02:34 +0000 Subject: Yamaha TSX-140; My Persistence Paid Dividends! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Well done and glad Amazon Sellers acted as they did. Interested to hear how you get on with the set. Dennis. Dennis Freedman The best aromatherapy in the UK - www.e-nat.co.uk Sent from my iPhone On 23 Nov 2011, at 22:45, "Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith" wrote: > Hello everybody > > Ok, this time, Lynne got it right. > > I've just received an email from Amazon Marketplace, informing her that she was absolutely correct that she (I) have an indisputable right under United Kingdom consumer legislation that, in the circumstance that a delivery is damaged, incorrect or partially missing, the consumer has the absolute right to receive an immediate replacement or refund on the items or item in that delivery which are damaged, incorrect, incorrectly labelled or missing. Amazon Marketplace apparently takes the conduct of their sellers extremely seriously and they contacted the specific seller on my behalf, having been made aware of the circumstances. I was contacted just before 21:00 this evening via email by the sales manager of the company. I have been offered, and have accepted, a full and formal apology on behalf of the company for the attitude of their sales representative who clearly failed in his duty, in the words of the manager, to the customer on this occasion. Upon being informed of the abs > ence of such a vital component as a power supply, the sales representative should have immediately telephoned, not emailed 3 hours later (as apparently he did), the suppliers and arranged for a replacement unit or a replacement power supply to be shipped to us. Apparently his email to the supplier contained only details of the consignment and a request to check to see if they could trace the packaging to be sure that there was a power supply packed. That is absolutely wrong, they are supposed to put the matter right immediately. Instead, as I've already told you, he requested that I contact Yamaha customer services and resolve the issue myself. I am told this is against both company policy and also Amazon Marketplace's seller's code of conduct to which the company signed up before joining the seller's group. > > By way of compensation for the inconvenience and the unnecessary hassles they caused me, they have now had their supplier ship to me by express courier a replacement power adapter, and they have also arranged for me to be enrolled to Yamaha's five-year extended warranty scheme free of charge. That's to compensate for the inconvenience. > > Had I simply telephoned Yamaha as per their request, it would have taken some time to get the new power adapter shipped as they are in Germany. I would imagine that the actual shipment would have been via the same supplier; but arranging it and so forth would have taken time. I would also not have received the free warranty enrolment or the apology. > > Sometimes complaining is the best option; although I don't like having to do it, and do it only when necessary. Had it been something small like a power cable, I wouldn't have bothered. It is just unfortunate that the unit won't work without the dedicated supply. > > Now; the machine itself. Dane; if you're reading this, can you tell me whether yours has the same functions as this one in terms of available modes? This one has a CD slot, top-loaded, iPhone/iPod dock which looks like it will handle either an iPhone 4 or an iPhone 3GS along with any iPod. I know your radio is the same; DAB/DAB+ and FN. I was a little surprised to find that there are only 5 presets per mode. Seems a bit restrictive. I don't know whether Gordon will be able to use the alarm functions, and I'm not quite sure as yet how you set the clock. Ours has Toslink and optical audio inputs, (I think they're inputs anyway), and a touch-sensitive top panel which has a few functions; including setting the power saver mode. > > I am going to have a good read of the user manual which, I'm bound to say, goes against the grain. :) But I feel this is one of those occasions where it will be helpful I think. > > But I'm very interested to know what the differences are between this and the previous model. The remote control, though quite small, has nicely pronounced buttons and I'm sure it won't take a lot of getting used too for Gordon. > > Anyway hopefully all's well that ends well. > > Lynne > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- From gordon at mac-access.net Thu Nov 24 00:04:27 2011 From: gordon at mac-access.net (Gordon Smith) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 00:04:27 +0000 Subject: Yamaha TSX-140; My Persistence Paid Dividends! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Dennis I'll write a review and put it on our blog. We're going to establish a techno-chat.net blog if anybody is interested. Lynne On 24 Nov 2011, at 00:02, Thejazzden wrote: Well done and glad Amazon Sellers acted as they did. Interested to hear how you get on with the set. Dennis. Dennis Freedman The best aromatherapy in the UK - www.e-nat.co.uk Sent from my iPhone On 23 Nov 2011, at 22:45, "Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith" wrote: > Hello everybody > > Ok, this time, Lynne got it right. > > I've just received an email from Amazon Marketplace, informing her that she was absolutely correct that she (I) have an indisputable right under United Kingdom consumer legislation that, in the circumstance that a delivery is damaged, incorrect or partially missing, the consumer has the absolute right to receive an immediate replacement or refund on the items or item in that delivery which are damaged, incorrect, incorrectly labelled or missing. Amazon Marketplace apparently takes the conduct of their sellers extremely seriously and they contacted the specific seller on my behalf, having been made aware of the circumstances. I was contacted just before 21:00 this evening via email by the sales manager of the company. I have been offered, and have accepted, a full and formal apology on behalf of the company for the attitude of their sales representative who clearly failed in his duty, in the words of the manager, to the customer on this occasion. Upon being informed of the a bs > ence of such a vital component as a power supply, the sales representative should have immediately telephoned, not emailed 3 hours later (as apparently he did), the suppliers and arranged for a replacement unit or a replacement power supply to be shipped to us. Apparently his email to the supplier contained only details of the consignment and a request to check to see if they could trace the packaging to be sure that there was a power supply packed. That is absolutely wrong, they are supposed to put the matter right immediately. Instead, as I've already told you, he requested that I contact Yamaha customer services and resolve the issue myself. I am told this is against both company policy and also Amazon Marketplace's seller's code of conduct to which the company signed up before joining the seller's group. > > By way of compensation for the inconvenience and the unnecessary hassles they caused me, they have now had their supplier ship to me by express courier a replacement power adapter, and they have also arranged for me to be enrolled to Yamaha's five-year extended warranty scheme free of charge. That's to compensate for the inconvenience. > > Had I simply telephoned Yamaha as per their request, it would have taken some time to get the new power adapter shipped as they are in Germany. I would imagine that the actual shipment would have been via the same supplier; but arranging it and so forth would have taken time. I would also not have received the free warranty enrolment or the apology. > > Sometimes complaining is the best option; although I don't like having to do it, and do it only when necessary. Had it been something small like a power cable, I wouldn't have bothered. It is just unfortunate that the unit won't work without the dedicated supply. > > Now; the machine itself. Dane; if you're reading this, can you tell me whether yours has the same functions as this one in terms of available modes? This one has a CD slot, top-loaded, iPhone/iPod dock which looks like it will handle either an iPhone 4 or an iPhone 3GS along with any iPod. I know your radio is the same; DAB/DAB+ and FN. I was a little surprised to find that there are only 5 presets per mode. Seems a bit restrictive. I don't know whether Gordon will be able to use the alarm functions, and I'm not quite sure as yet how you set the clock. Ours has Toslink and optical audio inputs, (I think they're inputs anyway), and a touch-sensitive top panel which has a few functions; including setting the power saver mode. > > I am going to have a good read of the user manual which, I'm bound to say, goes against the grain. :) But I feel this is one of those occasions where it will be helpful I think. > > But I'm very interested to know what the differences are between this and the previous model. The remote control, though quite small, has nicely pronounced buttons and I'm sure it won't take a lot of getting used too for Gordon. > > Anyway hopefully all's well that ends well. > > Lynne > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- ======================================= The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html Or: you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: --------------------------------------- From lynne at mac-access.net Thu Nov 24 00:04:54 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 00:04:54 +0000 Subject: Yamaha TSX-140; My Persistence Paid Dividends! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Oopse! I forgot to change accounts. Sorry. Lynne On 24 Nov 2011, at 00:02, Thejazzden wrote: Well done and glad Amazon Sellers acted as they did. Interested to hear how you get on with the set. Dennis. Dennis Freedman The best aromatherapy in the UK - www.e-nat.co.uk Sent from my iPhone On 23 Nov 2011, at 22:45, "Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith" wrote: > Hello everybody > > Ok, this time, Lynne got it right. > > I've just received an email from Amazon Marketplace, informing her that she was absolutely correct that she (I) have an indisputable right under United Kingdom consumer legislation that, in the circumstance that a delivery is damaged, incorrect or partially missing, the consumer has the absolute right to receive an immediate replacement or refund on the items or item in that delivery which are damaged, incorrect, incorrectly labelled or missing. Amazon Marketplace apparently takes the conduct of their sellers extremely seriously and they contacted the specific seller on my behalf, having been made aware of the circumstances. I was contacted just before 21:00 this evening via email by the sales manager of the company. I have been offered, and have accepted, a full and formal apology on behalf of the company for the attitude of their sales representative who clearly failed in his duty, in the words of the manager, to the customer on this occasion. Upon being informed of the a bs > ence of such a vital component as a power supply, the sales representative should have immediately telephoned, not emailed 3 hours later (as apparently he did), the suppliers and arranged for a replacement unit or a replacement power supply to be shipped to us. Apparently his email to the supplier contained only details of the consignment and a request to check to see if they could trace the packaging to be sure that there was a power supply packed. That is absolutely wrong, they are supposed to put the matter right immediately. Instead, as I've already told you, he requested that I contact Yamaha customer services and resolve the issue myself. I am told this is against both company policy and also Amazon Marketplace's seller's code of conduct to which the company signed up before joining the seller's group. > > By way of compensation for the inconvenience and the unnecessary hassles they caused me, they have now had their supplier ship to me by express courier a replacement power adapter, and they have also arranged for me to be enrolled to Yamaha's five-year extended warranty scheme free of charge. That's to compensate for the inconvenience. > > Had I simply telephoned Yamaha as per their request, it would have taken some time to get the new power adapter shipped as they are in Germany. I would imagine that the actual shipment would have been via the same supplier; but arranging it and so forth would have taken time. I would also not have received the free warranty enrolment or the apology. > > Sometimes complaining is the best option; although I don't like having to do it, and do it only when necessary. Had it been something small like a power cable, I wouldn't have bothered. It is just unfortunate that the unit won't work without the dedicated supply. > > Now; the machine itself. Dane; if you're reading this, can you tell me whether yours has the same functions as this one in terms of available modes? This one has a CD slot, top-loaded, iPhone/iPod dock which looks like it will handle either an iPhone 4 or an iPhone 3GS along with any iPod. I know your radio is the same; DAB/DAB+ and FN. I was a little surprised to find that there are only 5 presets per mode. Seems a bit restrictive. I don't know whether Gordon will be able to use the alarm functions, and I'm not quite sure as yet how you set the clock. Ours has Toslink and optical audio inputs, (I think they're inputs anyway), and a touch-sensitive top panel which has a few functions; including setting the power saver mode. > > I am going to have a good read of the user manual which, I'm bound to say, goes against the grain. :) But I feel this is one of those occasions where it will be helpful I think. > > But I'm very interested to know what the differences are between this and the previous model. The remote control, though quite small, has nicely pronounced buttons and I'm sure it won't take a lot of getting used too for Gordon. > > Anyway hopefully all's well that ends well. > > Lynne > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- ======================================= The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html Or: you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: --------------------------------------- From grtdane at internode.on.net Thu Nov 24 10:48:28 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 21:48:28 +1100 Subject: More Computer Speakers Message-ID: <41050434-140B-42D9-BF6A-608BBC27FBD2@internode.on.net> Hi folks! About a fortnight ago I wrote to the list discussing the new Altec Lansing Expressions Plus speaker system I'd bought then, I'm extremely happy with it. I had thought when I bought this system that the Expressions Plus was the top of the line 2.1 speaker system model Altec Lansing manufactured but I was wrong. Yep, I could have taken the speakers back from where I bought them but as my one of my other sets was wearing out anyway it made sense for me to replace that with the expressions Plus and buy the new Altec Lansing Expressions Ultra system for my main computer system in the back room. The Expressions Ultra is the top of the line 2.1 speaker system Altec Lansing make at the moment and boy! what a monster we're talking about here. The system consists of 4 components, 2 2-way speakers that can sit on a desk, a small control panel that sits on the desk beside you and a monster sub-woofer that looks more like a PC tower case, you can sit this in a shelf, on the floor etc. 5 separate digital amplifiers drive this system with 200 wats total power, most of which is used by the sub-woofer to shake the floor or whatever. If considering this system then you'll need to devote a little time to the unpacking, Altec Lansing in my view ought to win an ward for environmental vandals, I've never seen so much plastic tape, bag, foam and other rubbish in a box. Once everything was unpacked and accounted for it was time to wire and then power up. Wiring up is simple enough, each of the speakers and control panel plug into sockets via cables on the sub-woofer, it appears that all the plugs are different so their's no chance of plugging the wrong speaker into the wrong socket, plugging the control panel into one of the speaker sockets etc. So upon turning the system on I heard sweet sweet sound so time to control the system with the control panel to hear just what the system offered my ears. The panel has 3 buttons and a rotary know, when this is turned as a volume knob it increases or decreases the volume and here's where things become interesting. If you turn the knob slightly then volume increases or decreases gradually, turn the knob a little more then the rate of volume adjustment increases so be prepared for a few shocks. 1 button on the panel changes the knob for volume adjustment to bass adjustment, another changes from volume to treble adjustment and the small button in the middle of the panel turns the system on and off - there's a main power switch on the back of the sub-woofer which turns everything off. There are 2 sockets on the side of the panel, one for line in and the other for headphones which I've found terribly convenient. I have the 2 speaker units on my desktop shelf and their they stand proudly, Altec Lansing have done a good job with the design of these units, many speakers I've seen are extremely flimsy and can easily be knocked over but not these, they stand on an angle held by 2 rubber feet at the front and the protrusion at the rear. No doubt about it, these are the absolute best I've heard in the class of a 2.1 channel system and I wonder what a better 2.1 channel system could give the ears that this one couldn't. As far as I've been able to determine most of the spectrum is easily heard, crisp highs, very nice mid range and earth shattering low. I did wonder why 200 watts for a speaker package which you're pretty much sitting right in front of? Well I don't wonder any more, when I'm playing games with things exploding all around me I just sit and enjoy the noise or when listening to my favourite music I sit and listen for as long as I can, these speakers give total enjoyment to my ears. From lynne at mac-access.net Thu Nov 24 13:01:30 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 13:01:30 +0000 Subject: Yamaha Customer Services; Response Message-ID: <87F11023-441D-426B-864C-5A5D3C9AADE4@mac-access.net> Hello everybody Well, it seems that the contact I initiated with Yamaha customer services yesterday was a total waste of time. Here is their response to the support query I filed: Dear Mrs Smith, Thanks for your email and for your interest in Yamaha A/V & Hi-fi. We are sorry to hear that you have the PSU missing from your TSX-140 system. Your first port of call we would recommend, would be your supplying dealer, they can supply you with a new PSU unit for your TSX-140. If you have any further questions or queries, please do not hesitate to ask. Many thanks So there we are; all they've said is go back to your dealer. I don't dispute for a moment that Dane and others have had different results when dealing with them. But in this case, it was a little bit pointless. I'm still awaiting the arrival of the replacement supply. I am hoping it might be today; but to be honest I'm not convinced they have used express courier as they said they would. I think it's more likely to be a Royal Mail standard delivery; we will see. Lynne From lynne at mac-access.net Thu Nov 24 15:40:05 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 15:40:05 +0000 Subject: The start of the improvements, we hope! Message-ID: <2250BC75-1965-4AB4-9C47-2B4411EDDB20@mac-access.net> Hello everybody I have just placed an order for the full version of Adobe DreamWeaver CS5.5 for Windows. I'd have bought the Mac version; but it isn't accessible and although I could use it fine, Gordon couldn't have done and so that makes it a no-go option. So I ordered the Windows version and, I hope, he'll be able to use it to re-design the Mac-Access website. We have a lot of plans for that facility but to be honest, Taco HTML Edit for Mac is too restrictive. The Components library, for instance, I'm afraid we cannot figure out how it's supposed to be used. If we could, that'd be great. But it has us a bit stumped. So, if there's interest I will report back to the group regarding Adobe DreamWeaver CS5.5 on: 1. Accessibility and ease of installation 2. Accessibility within the various aspects of the editor and the preview screens 3. Accessibility and usability of the various element creation submenus 4. Any other miscellaneous issues which come to my attention This software is supposedly the "Bee's Knees", the 'Dogs Danglies", call it what you will, of web design and creation software. I will test it with both NVDA and Window-Eyes. Lynne From lynne at mac-access.net Thu Nov 24 15:43:55 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 15:43:55 +0000 Subject: Yamaha TSX-140; Let the fun begin! Message-ID: Hello everybody A couple of minutes ago, the replacement power adapter for the Yamaha TSX-140 arrived. I was wrong about the multi-pin connector. It's just a standard 9 or 6 volt adapter with a centre negative jack. So what that socket that looks like a HDMI input is, I'm not sure yet; it is dark here already and the writing on the unit is so small you wouldn't believe it. I have excellent vision and even I can't see it in this light. Lynne From tsiegel at softcon.com Thu Nov 24 17:45:11 2011 From: tsiegel at softcon.com (Travis Siegel) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 12:45:11 -0500 Subject: podcast on arallax propeller boards Message-ID: <80930F52-5178-488F-851D-2A8DCD9EFC69@softcon.com> I mentioned here a little while ago about building an fm radio using a kit from parallax. If anyone wants to know more about these boards, there's a user who has started a podcast of her experiences learning about the propeller board (the one I used for the fm radio) and you can find it at: http://www.firstspin.tv/2011/11/ I seriously urge anyone who the slightest interest in building/fixing/ recycling things to check this out. You'd be amazed at what you can do with these tiny little boards. Next task is to see if I can build something that will hook to the cable feed, and play the radio channels the tv gets on it's cable subscription feed. (don't know if it's possible, but sounds like fun to try) From roger.firman at btinternet.com Thu Nov 24 18:26:47 2011 From: roger.firman at btinternet.com (Roger Firman) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 18:26:47 -0000 Subject: DreamWeaver CS5.5 full version In-Reply-To: <2250BC75-1965-4AB4-9C47-2B4411EDDB20@mac-access.net> Message-ID: Lynne, Having thought about this for a few days, I have done the same and purchased the full version. Could be interesting to compare notes/experiences. Regards, Roger. From lynne at mac-access.net Thu Nov 24 19:50:51 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 19:50:51 +0000 Subject: Fun; Old Apple Sounds Message-ID: Hello everybody OK, how about this Youtube then? If you like old Apple sounds, here's a treat: Lynne From lynne at mac-access.net Thu Nov 24 20:05:58 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 20:05:58 +0000 Subject: DreamWeaver CS5.5 full version In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8BDE4175-C28B-4B7B-8206-E1C30C71AC49@mac-access.net> Hello Roger That's fine. Gordon just intensively dislikes dependency, so what others might be prepared to accept as "sighted help", "visual help", that sort of thing; Gordon won't accept. That isn't meant in any way patronising, please don't take it as such. It's just a matter of Gordon's attitude towards things. He won't take the easy way out. :) Anyway, DreamWeaver. Yes; by all means we can swap stories. I'm planning on installing it either in a VM or on our NetBook; it really depends on how things go. But hopefully it's going to be more or less accessible. I have heard rumours that it doesn't get along too well with JFW; how true that is I don't know. Lynne On 24 Nov 2011, at 18:26, Roger Firman wrote: Having thought about this for a few days, I have done the same and purchased the full version. Could be interesting to compare notes/experiences. From roger.firman at btinternet.com Thu Nov 24 20:15:29 2011 From: roger.firman at btinternet.com (Roger Firman) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 20:15:29 -0000 Subject: DreamWeaver CS5.5 full version In-Reply-To: <8BDE4175-C28B-4B7B-8206-E1C30C71AC49@mac-access.net> Message-ID: Dear Lynne, Because I am used to coding websites from raw HTML etc, I thought it would be good to investigate a possible alternative and see what additional facilities the software offers as it could also be good to learn something new, or expand what I do already. Regards, Roger. From lynne at mac-access.net Thu Nov 24 20:24:16 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 20:24:16 +0000 Subject: DreamWeaver CS5.5 full version In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <70FA9ADE-F3C5-49FA-A692-019721C29E32@mac-access.net> Hello Roger From the views and screen shots I've seen of the interface, it will allow raw coding. But it also will handle CSS3 and HTML5 as well which is the attraction for us if truth be known. Our file manager uses CSS3 and Gordon had a devil of a time getting the interface perfected as we wanted it so that it works for mobile devices as well as desktops. That would've been done far more quickly we think with something like this; so I bit the bullet. Just a word of advise for you Roger. When you get it, (ours is due to arrive tomorrow), make sure you get the latest updates. We would be glad to make them available to you if it would help. Lynne On 24 Nov 2011, at 20:15, Roger Firman wrote: Dear Lynne, Because I am used to coding websites from raw HTML etc, I thought it would be good to investigate a possible alternative and see what additional facilities the software offers as it could also be good to learn something new, or expand what I do already. Regards, Roger. ======================================= The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html Or: you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: --------------------------------------- From gordon at mac-access.net Fri Nov 25 14:05:18 2011 From: gordon at mac-access.net (Gordon Smith) Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 14:05:18 +0000 Subject: Yamaha TSX-140, initial impressions Message-ID: Hi all, and I must say it's magic, absolutely magic, to be able to join in the discussions again after all this time of watching from the sidelines and being frustrated. Anyway, to the point. As I think you'll know by now, Lynne just bought me a Yamaha TSX-140 which was supposed to be for Christmas but she's told me I can have that now and she'll put something else under the tree for me but she won't say what. Anyway, this morning I got my first real chance to play with the new machine. My initial impressions are very positive. The audio which comes from it is absolutely astonishing given that it's a micro system and the speakers are so close together. The speakers are actually 2-way speakers with a tweeter and a woofer in each. The dual-15 Watt RMS digital amplifier is very noticeable as the sound rises in volume, it does so smoothly and there is no distortion or harsh effects which you often get with micro systems like this. I've tried this with an iPod Touch in the dock. I've also tried the analogue (FM) radio and the digital (DAB) audio. Unfortunately, I don't think the UK has yet adopted the DAB+ standard so we don't benefit from the much more efficient codec which DAB+ employs. Hopefully they'll adopt that standard and run it alongside the DAB codecs. If you don't know about the way DAB and DAB+ signals work, briefly: DAB signals are transmitted in groups, known as "Ensembles" Each "Ensemble" can house up to 6 radio stations with each station having the ability to have a "secondary" service tagged to it. That is how, for instance, BBC Radio Five Live runs their Five Live Sports Extra service, it's a secondary service on their "ensemble" allocation. It's worth noting if you're ever in a position to look around the technical details of signals on your local transmitter, that not all "Ensembles" house the same organisation on its services. For instance, on my own local transmitter, BBC Radio Five Live shares an "Ensemble" with Smooth Radio, Virgin FM and a couple of other organisations, whilst BBC Radio 1, 2, 3, 4, 6 and 7 are on different "ensembles' again. Anyway, back to the Yamaha. One thing I haven't yet managed to figure out is a way to know which preset you're putting a station into. For instance, you need to scroll through the presets once you press the "Memory" button in order to find the number of the preset you want to populate. On that subject, my most fierce criticism of this model is that there are only 5 presets for the DAB and DAB+ receiver, and 5 for the analogue FM. That's just a little bit ridiculous and very restrictive. The construction of the machine is very nice, although it would have been even better had they used proper teak. Lynne actually thought it was Teak at first. But it isn't, it's just plastic with a wood-like finish to make it look like Teak. The joint antenna system is quite interesting. In the UK, DAB signals are broadcast with vertical polarisation, in order to accommodate mobile applications. The old FM transmitters actually use slant polarisation these days, but they used to be horizontal. This antenna is just a very basic dipole, so there's absolutely no gain whatsoever. We are in a reasonable reception area, but I have found stations on both FM and DAB where the signal has been weak. The other thing I've noticed about the Yamaha is that the receivers don't seem particularly sensitive. For instance, my old Pure Logic DX1 tuner, on the same antenna and with the same conditions, receives signals which the Yamaha cannot even detect. My old JVC analogue tuner, on the same dipole in the same place, receives FM signals which the Yamaha doesn't even managed to pull out of the noise. I personally don't plan to use FM at all. It's very very dull in comparison to DAB, and I am sure that if and when we implement DAB+ codec over here, we'd get some pretty amazing sound on our digital networks. Overall though, I'm very impressed with most of what the TSX-140 offers. I have seen more feature-packed micro systems but the problem with those is that they're cheap and nasty and the sound that you get from them is tinny and weak. For the purpose that Lynne bought this, the TSX-140 will more than suffice. We now have the option of either using the Squeezebox Boom and Internet radio, or else we can play a range of content on the Yamaha. Both machines have pride of place now beside our bed and it's going to be an interesting experience when I get some digital data sorted out. I need to read up a bit on how the TSX-140 handles multi-folder disks. I know it can handle them, but I'm going to have to swallow my pride and create some MP3 just for that specific purpose. Usually we use AAC+ for our music listening. Good to be back. Gordon From grtdane at internode.on.net Fri Nov 25 14:23:21 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 01:23:21 +1100 Subject: Yamaha TSX-140, initial impressions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <41710B20-62E6-4B80-AF31-C98AF1241951@internode.on.net> Howdy and good to see you round again. I have the model of Yamaha below yours and would like to comment on your observations. Not being picky but as I understand it Yamaha call these systems "Desktop Systems", "Micro Systems" are different, they usually have a centre piece that contains the amp and all the other bits and pieces with a speaker on the left and right whereas - as you've noted - the Yamaha has everything including speakers in the one neat box. So, it seems that Yamaha have cheapened the construction of the TSX-140? My TSX-130 has actually got a wooden teak top with a plastic bottom and you can verify this easily enough. At the rear of the wooden top each side are a series of wholes in the case which make up bass reflex ports, put your finger into one of these and you can feel where the wood hasn't been polished so that's how I know with mine. You'll also note that the speakers themselves are in separate cabinets, that is to say if you took the top of your Yamaha you'd see 2 boxes either side of the cabinet, these sealed boxes contain the speaker drivers and possibly other components, according to the review I read more than 12 months ago which prompted me to buy my unit, these boxes also contain acoustic echo chambers which help - so the review says - give the Yamaha its amazing sound. Absolutely right about the sensitivity of the FM tuner in fact I'd go so far as to say that the FM tuner is next to useless where I am, I reckon you'd have to be sitting right next door to a transmitter. DAB+ is a little on the deaf side and it took me forever to find a satisfactory angle for the antenna, on hot days the Yamaha DAB+ receiver has trouble pulling in DAB+ signals, don't ask me why but it does whereas my Roberts Ecologic 4 portable doesn't have a problem in the world when it comes to DAB+. Creating MP3 CD'S is easy enough as is putting MP3 files on a USB drive, just organise them as you would on a computer, say 1 folder per album and you'll be able to navigate these on the Yamaha easily enough, pity there's no speech but if you know what you've put on a CD or drive then you have some idea what you're navigating . Yeah! your bedside sounds exactly like mine, Squeezebox Boom and Yamaha have pride of place and each gets used often. On 26/11/2011, at 1:05 AM, Gordon Smith wrote: > Hi all, and I must say it's magic, absolutely magic, to be able to join in the discussions again after all this time of watching from the sidelines and being frustrated. > > Anyway, to the point. As I think you'll know by now, Lynne just bought me a Yamaha TSX-140 which was supposed to be for Christmas but she's told me I can have that now and she'll put something else under the tree for me but she won't say what. > > Anyway, this morning I got my first real chance to play with the new machine. My initial impressions are very positive. The audio which comes from it is absolutely astonishing given that it's a micro system and the speakers are so close together. The speakers are actually 2-way speakers with a tweeter and a woofer in each. The dual-15 Watt RMS digital amplifier is very noticeable as the sound rises in volume, it does so smoothly and there is no distortion or harsh effects which you often get with micro systems like this. > > I've tried this with an iPod Touch in the dock. I've also tried the analogue (FM) radio and the digital (DAB) audio. Unfortunately, I don't think the UK has yet adopted the DAB+ standard so we don't benefit from the much more efficient codec which DAB+ employs. Hopefully they'll adopt that standard and run it alongside the DAB codecs. > > If you don't know about the way DAB and DAB+ signals work, briefly: DAB signals are transmitted in groups, known as "Ensembles" Each "Ensemble" can house up to 6 radio stations with each station having the ability to have a "secondary" service tagged to it. That is how, for instance, BBC Radio Five Live runs their Five Live Sports Extra service, it's a secondary service on their "ensemble" allocation. > > It's worth noting if you're ever in a position to look around the technical details of signals on your local transmitter, that not all "Ensembles" house the same organisation on its services. For instance, on my own local transmitter, BBC Radio Five Live shares an "Ensemble" with Smooth Radio, Virgin FM and a couple of other organisations, whilst BBC Radio 1, 2, 3, 4, 6 and 7 are on different "ensembles' again. > > Anyway, back to the Yamaha. One thing I haven't yet managed to figure out is a way to know which preset you're putting a station into. For instance, you need to scroll through the presets once you press the "Memory" button in order to find the number of the preset you want to populate. On that subject, my most fierce criticism of this model is that there are only 5 presets for the DAB and DAB+ receiver, and 5 for the analogue FM. That's just a little bit ridiculous and very restrictive. > > The construction of the machine is very nice, although it would have been even better had they used proper teak. Lynne actually thought it was Teak at first. But it isn't, it's just plastic with a wood-like finish to make it look like Teak. > > The joint antenna system is quite interesting. In the UK, DAB signals are broadcast with vertical polarisation, in order to accommodate mobile applications. The old FM transmitters actually use slant polarisation these days, but they used to be horizontal. This antenna is just a very basic dipole, so there's absolutely no gain whatsoever. We are in a reasonable reception area, but I have found stations on both FM and DAB where the signal has been weak. The other thing I've noticed about the Yamaha is that the receivers don't seem particularly sensitive. For instance, my old Pure Logic DX1 tuner, on the same antenna and with the same conditions, receives signals which the Yamaha cannot even detect. My old JVC analogue tuner, on the same dipole in the same place, receives FM signals which the Yamaha doesn't even managed to pull out of the noise. > > I personally don't plan to use FM at all. It's very very dull in comparison to DAB, and I am sure that if and when we implement DAB+ codec over here, we'd get some pretty amazing sound on our digital networks. > > Overall though, I'm very impressed with most of what the TSX-140 offers. I have seen more feature-packed micro systems but the problem with those is that they're cheap and nasty and the sound that you get from them is tinny and weak. > > For the purpose that Lynne bought this, the TSX-140 will more than suffice. We now have the option of either using the Squeezebox Boom and Internet radio, or else we can play a range of content on the Yamaha. Both machines have pride of place now beside our bed and it's going to be an interesting experience when I get some digital data sorted out. I need to read up a bit on how the TSX-140 handles multi-folder disks. I know it can handle them, but I'm going to have to swallow my pride and create some MP3 just for that specific purpose. Usually we use AAC+ for our music listening. > > Good to be back. > > Gordon > > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- From gordon at mac-access.net Fri Nov 25 15:44:32 2011 From: gordon at mac-access.net (Gordon Smith) Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 15:44:32 +0000 Subject: Yamaha TSX-140, initial impressions In-Reply-To: <41710B20-62E6-4B80-AF31-C98AF1241951@internode.on.net> References: <41710B20-62E6-4B80-AF31-C98AF1241951@internode.on.net> Message-ID: <70D8B0B9-A427-45E9-814E-F94BE08F2A0C@mac-access.net> Hi Dane and all I'm going to do this in Lynne style, as it'll make things easier. On 25 Nov 2011, at 14:23, Dane Trethowan wrote: ? Howdy and good to see you round again. It's great to be back in the land of the living. ? I have the model of Yamaha below yours and would like to comment on your observations. Feel free ? Not being picky but as I understand it Yamaha call these systems "Desktop Systems", "Micro Systems" are different, they usually have a centre piece that contains the amp and all the other bits and pieces with a speaker on the left and right whereas - as you've noted - the Yamaha has everything including speakers in the one neat box. The description on the Yamaha UK website of this model is that it is a "Micro System", and it also describes it as "Desktop" audio. ? So, it seems that Yamaha have cheapened the construction of the TSX-140? My TSX-130 has actually got a wooden teak top with a plastic bottom and you can verify this easily enough. I was wrong about that. Lynne and I had a good look at it and it's actually wood, not plastic. It isn't teak though, it looks more like chipboard type material to me. But I was wrong about it being plastic, that's for sure. At the rear of the wooden top each side are a series of wholes in the case which make up bass reflex ports, put your finger into one of these and you can feel where the wood hasn't been polished so that's how I know with mine. Nothing like that on mine. ? You'll also note that the speakers themselves are in separate cabinets, that is to say if you took the top of your Yamaha you'd see 2 boxes either side of the cabinet, these sealed boxes contain the speaker drivers and possibly other components, according to the review I read more than 12 months ago which prompted me to buy my unit, these boxes also contain acoustic echo chambers which help - so the review says - give the Yamaha its amazing sound. Yes, I noticed that. They are two-way speakers in acoustic chambers as you say, and actually the construction is extremely well thought out. You can definitely hear the difference in audio in comparison to, for instance, Lynne's brother Steve's Sharp micro system which sounds positively dull by comparison. Steve will be impressed i think when he comes over to see this. ? Absolutely right about the sensitivity of the FM tuner in fact I'd go so far as to say that the FM tuner is next to useless where I am, I reckon you'd have to be sitting right next door to a transmitter. I am sure that's mostly due to the antenna, to be honest. And that is my only major quibble about this unit. Why on earth Yamaha opted to use a common antenna system for FM and DAB when even in your country, although the frequencies are different, the FM band is from 88 to about 108 MHZ. As I understand it, your DAB+ broadcasts are using the 1.6 to 2.0 MHZ frequency band, (correct me if I'm wrong), because I'm not entirely sure about that. Ours use much higher frequencies, (I'd have to check those to be sure because I can't quite remember). But I seem to remember reading that it's about 5.8 GHZ. But my point here is how on earth can you expect a common antenna to resonate at two such very different frequency bands, regardless of whether it's over in Australia or over here. The antenna provided is nothing but a wire dipole and looking at it, it's cut for the digital bands in the UK. FM, being at a far lower frequency band, needs a far larger antenna to be resonant and I think that the reason FM is so very very deaf is is because the antenna isn't cut for that band. Therefore, Yamaha should have used twin antenna inputs, one for FM and one for DAB. I'm not a designer, and I'm not sure how they've designed the receivers themselves. But it sounds to me as though the FM receiver is only a single heterodyne receiver which, in itself, is a disadvantage. So all in all I'd say that the tuner is the weakest part of this system. I haven't yet tried any other mode than the iPod dock, and I didn't sync the material. I'll do that. But on our model, when you sync the iPod or a computer running iTunes, I'm not sure how that works actually. Does it store the content onboard the Yamaha, or what? If not, where's the point in synchronisation? Also, on ours there's what looks like a HDMI socket on the back. But it isn't marked in the book and the socket itself isn't marked. Any idea what that's for? can't believe it's HDMI unless you can connect this thing to a surround sound receiver. ? DAB+ is a little on the deaf side and it took me forever to find a satisfactory angle for the antenna, on hot days the Yamaha DAB+ receiver has trouble pulling in DAB+ signals, don't ask me why but it does whereas my Roberts Ecologic 4 portable doesn't have a problem in the world when it comes to DAB+. I can explain that for you. The reason your receiver is having trouble like that is due to propagation. At the lower frequency bands, atmospherics play a very large roll in the reception of radio and TV signals. The lower frequency signals are far more prone to atmospherics than the higher frequency bands are. I totally understand why lower frequency bands are in use over there, your proximity is far greater from the transmitter than ours is. There are advantages and disadvantages to both systems actually. Creating MP3 CD'S is easy enough as is putting MP3 files on a USB drive, just organise them as you would on a computer, say 1 folder per album and you'll be able to navigate these on the Yamaha easily enough, pity there's no speech but if you know what you've put on a CD or drive then you have some idea what you're navigating . How does it handle track numbering? Does it use the iTunes format? Lynne said something about it organising playlists in alphabetical order which seems crazy. Album tracks are rarely organised in alphabetical sequence. :) ? Yeah! your bedside sounds exactly like mine, Squeezebox Boom and Yamaha have pride of place and each gets used often. I'm certainly not going to ditch the Boom. Actually the audio that comes out of that thing has to be heard to be believed. In the context of it being Internet audio I mean, but the audio sounds almost CD quality and, in fact, in comparison to some CD's I've heard, it's better quality. Gordon From grtdane at internode.on.net Fri Nov 25 16:20:03 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 03:20:03 +1100 Subject: Yamaha TSX-140, initial impressions In-Reply-To: <70D8B0B9-A427-45E9-814E-F94BE08F2A0C@mac-access.net> References: <41710B20-62E6-4B80-AF31-C98AF1241951@internode.on.net> <70D8B0B9-A427-45E9-814E-F94BE08F2A0C@mac-access.net> Message-ID: <25FA7622-9658-48FE-A868-D8791FE01E70@internode.on.net> Howdy! Not sure of the exact frequency range of our DAB+ band but I know you'll find it if you were to look between 130-300MHZ, it occupies some of the space used by our old Analogue TV signals. I didn't think such high frequency bands had the problems you explained but I'm sure you're right, all the DAB+ sets I have suffer from this problem to a degree but the Yamaha is by far the worst affected. I'm sure you're right about the cut of the antenna too, the Yamaha Hi-Fi tuner I have has 3 antenna connections, 1 for DAB+, 1 for FM and 1 for AM which makes a great deal more sense but then again the Yamaha tuner on its own was worth more than the Yamaha systems were' talking about. As I understand it, the Yamaha sorts by numbers in a track name, I wasn't aware that the Yamaha even supported playlists, your model may do but I'm not sure mine does. Mine certainly doesn't support the syncing of an iPhone or iPod. On 26/11/2011, at 2:44 AM, Gordon Smith wrote: > Hi Dane and all > > I'm going to do this in Lynne style, as it'll make things easier. > > On 25 Nov 2011, at 14:23, Dane Trethowan wrote: > > ? Howdy and good to see you round again. > > It's great to be back in the land of the living. > > ? I have the model of Yamaha below yours and would like to comment on your observations. > > Feel free > > ? Not being picky but as I understand it Yamaha call these systems "Desktop Systems", "Micro Systems" are different, they usually have a centre piece that contains the amp and all the other bits and pieces with a speaker on the left and right whereas - as you've noted - the Yamaha has everything including speakers in the one neat box. > > The description on the Yamaha UK website of this model is that it is a "Micro System", and it also describes it as "Desktop" audio. > > ? So, it seems that Yamaha have cheapened the construction of the TSX-140? My TSX-130 has actually got a wooden teak top with a plastic bottom and you can verify this easily enough. > > > I was wrong about that. Lynne and I had a good look at it and it's actually wood, not plastic. It isn't teak though, it looks more like chipboard type material to me. But I was wrong about it being plastic, that's for sure. > > At the rear of the wooden top each side are a series of wholes in the case which make up bass reflex ports, put your finger into one of these and you can feel where the wood hasn't been polished so that's how I know with mine. > > Nothing like that on mine. > > ? You'll also note that the speakers themselves are in separate cabinets, that is to say if you took the top of your Yamaha you'd see 2 boxes either side of the cabinet, these sealed boxes contain the speaker drivers and possibly other components, according to the review I read more than 12 months ago which prompted me to buy my unit, these boxes also contain acoustic echo chambers which help - so the review says - give the Yamaha its amazing sound. > > Yes, I noticed that. They are two-way speakers in acoustic chambers as you say, and actually the construction is extremely well thought out. You can definitely hear the difference in audio in comparison to, for instance, Lynne's brother Steve's Sharp micro system which sounds positively dull by comparison. Steve will be impressed i think when he comes over to see this. > > ? Absolutely right about the sensitivity of the FM tuner in fact I'd go so far as to say that the FM tuner is next to useless where I am, I reckon you'd have to be sitting right next door to a transmitter. > > I am sure that's mostly due to the antenna, to be honest. And that is my only major quibble about this unit. Why on earth Yamaha opted to use a common antenna system for FM and DAB when even in your country, although the frequencies are different, the FM band is from 88 to about 108 MHZ. As I understand it, your DAB+ broadcasts are using the 1.6 to 2.0 MHZ frequency band, (correct me if I'm wrong), because I'm not entirely sure about that. > > Ours use much higher frequencies, (I'd have to check those to be sure because I can't quite remember). But I seem to remember reading that it's about 5.8 GHZ. But my point here is how on earth can you expect a common antenna to resonate at two such very different frequency bands, regardless of whether it's over in Australia or over here. > > The antenna provided is nothing but a wire dipole and looking at it, it's cut for the digital bands in the UK. > > FM, being at a far lower frequency band, needs a far larger antenna to be resonant and I think that the reason FM is so very very deaf is is because the antenna isn't cut for that band. > > Therefore, Yamaha should have used twin antenna inputs, one for FM and one for DAB. I'm not a designer, and I'm not sure how they've designed the receivers themselves. But it sounds to me as though the FM receiver is only a single heterodyne receiver which, in itself, is a disadvantage. So all in all I'd say that the tuner is the weakest part of this system. > > I haven't yet tried any other mode than the iPod dock, and I didn't sync the material. I'll do that. But on our model, when you sync the iPod or a computer running iTunes, I'm not sure how that works actually. Does it store the content onboard the Yamaha, or what? If not, where's the point in synchronisation? > > Also, on ours there's what looks like a HDMI socket on the back. But it isn't marked in the book and the socket itself isn't marked. Any idea what that's for? can't believe it's HDMI unless you can connect this thing to a surround sound receiver. > > ? DAB+ is a little on the deaf side and it took me forever to find a satisfactory angle for the antenna, on hot days the Yamaha DAB+ receiver has trouble pulling in DAB+ signals, don't ask me why but it does whereas my Roberts Ecologic 4 portable doesn't have a problem in the world when it comes to DAB+. > > I can explain that for you. The reason your receiver is having trouble like that is due to propagation. At the lower frequency bands, atmospherics play a very large roll in the reception of radio and TV signals. The lower frequency signals are far more prone to atmospherics than the higher frequency bands are. I totally understand why lower frequency bands are in use over there, your proximity is far greater from the transmitter than ours is. There are advantages and disadvantages to both systems actually. > > Creating MP3 CD'S is easy enough as is putting MP3 files on a USB drive, just organise them as you would on a computer, say 1 folder per album and you'll be able to navigate these on the Yamaha easily enough, pity there's no speech but if you know what you've put on a CD or drive then you have some idea what you're navigating . > > How does it handle track numbering? Does it use the iTunes format? Lynne said something about it organising playlists in alphabetical order which seems crazy. Album tracks are rarely organised in alphabetical sequence. :) > > ? Yeah! your bedside sounds exactly like mine, Squeezebox Boom and Yamaha have pride of place and each gets used often. > > I'm certainly not going to ditch the Boom. Actually the audio that comes out of that thing has to be heard to be believed. In the context of it being Internet audio I mean, but the audio sounds almost CD quality and, in fact, in comparison to some CD's I've heard, it's better quality. > > Gordon > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- From gordon at mac-access.net Fri Nov 25 17:04:46 2011 From: gordon at mac-access.net (Gordon Smith) Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 17:04:46 +0000 Subject: Yamaha TSX-140, initial impressions In-Reply-To: <25FA7622-9658-48FE-A868-D8791FE01E70@internode.on.net> References: <41710B20-62E6-4B80-AF31-C98AF1241951@internode.on.net> <70D8B0B9-A427-45E9-814E-F94BE08F2A0C@mac-access.net> <25FA7622-9658-48FE-A868-D8791FE01E70@internode.on.net> Message-ID: <1EEE048B-7E47-415B-83DB-863DFAA1AACD@mac-access.net> Hi Dane On 25 Nov 2011, at 16:20, Dane Trethowan wrote: Not sure of the exact frequency range of our DAB+ band but I know you'll find it if you were to look between 130-300MHZ, it occupies some of the space used by our old Analogue TV signals. Ah, partly. But there are also aspects of DAB which use much higher frequencies over here. I didn't think such high frequency bands had the problems you explained but I'm sure you're right, all the DAB+ sets I have suffer from this problem to a degree but the Yamaha is by far the worst affected. No, you shouldn't get that problem at 100 MHZ plus. I thought you were using 1.6 MHZ as you used to use when you were testing DAB.. I believe you were going to adopt the American standard, but ultimately didn't. I'm sure you're right about the cut of the antenna too, the Yamaha Hi-Fi tuner I have has 3 antenna connections, 1 for DAB+, 1 for FM and 1 for AM which makes a great deal more sense but then again the Yamaha tuner on its own was worth more than the Yamaha systems were' talking about. Any self-respecting tuner should have an antenna for each band. I was utterly amazed when I discovered that the two receivers or two elements of the same receiver shared an antenna between the 2 bands or, should I say, 3 bands. The textual display isn't on the same band as the audio actually, and that's the bit which uses higher frequency bands. That, at least, is how it is over here. I'll have to check the exact specs because I'm a bit out of touch at the moment. But still, propagation over there is a factor since distance is important. As I understand it, the Yamaha sorts by numbers in a track name, I wasn't aware that the Yamaha even supported playlists, your model may do but I'm not sure mine does. No, it doesn't. But what I'm saying is that it handles filenames alphabetically, or by the time stamp on the file. Mine certainly doesn't support the syncing of an iPhone or iPod. That is the core function of my model. I used it last night and it was excellent. Gordon From grtdane at internode.on.net Fri Nov 25 17:05:39 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 04:05:39 +1100 Subject: More Computer Speakers Message-ID: <8BF0086D-5FDA-4F59-B275-F5578EBB90B0@internode.on.net> Hi folks! I wrote a mini review of the Altec Lansing Expressions Ultra 2.1 Channel Computer Speaker system to the list a couple of days ago. For those who missed it you can find it on my blog at From grtdane at internode.on.net Fri Nov 25 17:09:33 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 04:09:33 +1100 Subject: Yamaha TSX-140, initial impressions In-Reply-To: <1EEE048B-7E47-415B-83DB-863DFAA1AACD@mac-access.net> References: <41710B20-62E6-4B80-AF31-C98AF1241951@internode.on.net> <70D8B0B9-A427-45E9-814E-F94BE08F2A0C@mac-access.net> <25FA7622-9658-48FE-A868-D8791FE01E70@internode.on.net> <1EEE048B-7E47-415B-83DB-863DFAA1AACD@mac-access.net> Message-ID: <60761541-B35A-4DB8-9713-9AEC86084CCB@internode.on.net> To your last point first, I'm not worried about whether the model supports syncing of an iPhone or iPod, after all! we can use iCloud to do that now. Yeah, we used 1.6MHZ as part of the DRM testing, DRM is different to the American HD Radio standard. On 26/11/2011, at 4:04 AM, Gordon Smith wrote: > Hi Dane > > On 25 Nov 2011, at 16:20, Dane Trethowan wrote: > > Not sure of the exact frequency range of our DAB+ band but I know you'll find it if you were to look between 130-300MHZ, it occupies some of the space used by our old Analogue TV signals. > > Ah, partly. But there are also aspects of DAB which use much higher frequencies over here. > > I didn't think such high frequency bands had the problems you explained but I'm sure you're right, all the DAB+ sets I have suffer from this problem to a degree but the Yamaha is by far the worst affected. > > No, you shouldn't get that problem at 100 MHZ plus. I thought you were using 1.6 MHZ as you used to use when you were testing DAB.. I believe you were going to adopt the American standard, but ultimately didn't. > > I'm sure you're right about the cut of the antenna too, the Yamaha Hi-Fi tuner I have has 3 antenna connections, 1 for DAB+, 1 for FM and 1 for AM which makes a great deal more sense but then again the Yamaha tuner on its own was worth more than the Yamaha systems were' talking about. > > Any self-respecting tuner should have an antenna for each band. I was utterly amazed when I discovered that the two receivers or two elements of the same receiver shared an antenna between the 2 bands or, should I say, 3 bands. The textual display isn't on the same band as the audio actually, and that's the bit which uses higher frequency bands. That, at least, is how it is over here. > > I'll have to check the exact specs because I'm a bit out of touch at the moment. But still, propagation over there is a factor since distance is important. > > As I understand it, the Yamaha sorts by numbers in a track name, I wasn't aware that the Yamaha even supported playlists, your model may do but I'm not sure mine does. > > No, it doesn't. But what I'm saying is that it handles filenames alphabetically, or by the time stamp on the file. > > Mine certainly doesn't support the syncing of an iPhone or iPod. > > That is the core function of my model. I used it last night and it was excellent. > > Gordon > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- From gordon at mac-access.net Fri Nov 25 17:13:49 2011 From: gordon at mac-access.net (Gordon Smith) Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 17:13:49 +0000 Subject: Yamaha TSX-140, initial impressions In-Reply-To: <60761541-B35A-4DB8-9713-9AEC86084CCB@internode.on.net> References: <41710B20-62E6-4B80-AF31-C98AF1241951@internode.on.net> <70D8B0B9-A427-45E9-814E-F94BE08F2A0C@mac-access.net> <25FA7622-9658-48FE-A868-D8791FE01E70@internode.on.net> <1EEE048B-7E47-415B-83DB-863DFAA1AACD@mac-access.net> <60761541-B35A-4DB8-9713-9AEC86084CCB@internode.on.net> Message-ID: Hello Dane On 25 Nov 2011, at 17:09, Dane Trethowan wrote: To your last point first, I'm not worried about whether the model supports syncing of an iPhone or iPod, after all! we can use iCloud to do that now. That is very true. It's just convenient as a sound system. It allows you to have the content of your iPod played via the Yamaha. But you can do that without syncing. Yeah, we used 1.6MHZ as part of the DRM testing, DRM is different to the American HD Radio standard. That's different from here. Gordon From marrie12 at gmail.com Fri Nov 25 18:15:31 2011 From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah Alawami) Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 10:15:31 -0800 Subject: NVDA 11.3 released Message-ID: <86D24516-CA8E-411B-83C9-6A73243B39C0@gmail.com> I just want ot let those of you know whouse nvda that ver 11.3 has been released. More info here. http://www.nvda-project.org/blog/NVDA2011.3Released You will need to skip past the donate button to continu with the download. then your download from source forge should start right off. Take care all From david.mclean at cox.net Fri Nov 25 19:32:39 2011 From: david.mclean at cox.net (David McLean) Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 14:32:39 -0500 Subject: Yamaha TSX-140, initial impressions In-Reply-To: <25FA7622-9658-48FE-A868-D8791FE01E70@internode.on.net> References: <41710B20-62E6-4B80-AF31-C98AF1241951@internode.on.net> <70D8B0B9-A427-45E9-814E-F94BE08F2A0C@mac-access.net> <25FA7622-9658-48FE-A868-D8791FE01E70@internode.on.net> Message-ID: I am curious about the sound quality of a DAB broadcast. I am in the good old commercial US so we have IBOC instead which is wedged into the existing FM signal and doesn't really sound any better than the analog FM signal. I've heard DAB is supposed to sound much better. Is that true? On Nov 25, 2011, at 11:20 AM, Dane Trethowan wrote: > Howdy! > > Not sure of the exact frequency range of our DAB+ band but I know you'll find it if you were to look between 130-300MHZ, it occupies some of the space used by our old Analogue TV signals. > > I didn't think such high frequency bands had the problems you explained but I'm sure you're right, all the DAB+ sets I have suffer from this problem to a degree but the Yamaha is by far the worst affected. > > I'm sure you're right about the cut of the antenna too, the Yamaha Hi-Fi tuner I have has 3 antenna connections, 1 for DAB+, 1 for FM and 1 for AM which makes a great deal more sense but then again the Yamaha tuner on its own was worth more than the Yamaha systems were' talking about. > > As I understand it, the Yamaha sorts by numbers in a track name, I wasn't aware that the Yamaha even supported playlists, your model may do but I'm not sure mine does. > > Mine certainly doesn't support the syncing of an iPhone or iPod. > > > On 26/11/2011, at 2:44 AM, Gordon Smith wrote: > >> Hi Dane and all >> >> I'm going to do this in Lynne style, as it'll make things easier. >> >> On 25 Nov 2011, at 14:23, Dane Trethowan wrote: >> >> ? Howdy and good to see you round again. >> >> It's great to be back in the land of the living. >> >> ? I have the model of Yamaha below yours and would like to comment on your observations. >> >> Feel free >> >> ? Not being picky but as I understand it Yamaha call these systems "Desktop Systems", "Micro Systems" are different, they usually have a centre piece that contains the amp and all the other bits and pieces with a speaker on the left and right whereas - as you've noted - the Yamaha has everything including speakers in the one neat box. >> >> The description on the Yamaha UK website of this model is that it is a "Micro System", and it also describes it as "Desktop" audio. >> >> ? So, it seems that Yamaha have cheapened the construction of the TSX-140? My TSX-130 has actually got a wooden teak top with a plastic bottom and you can verify this easily enough. >> >> >> I was wrong about that. Lynne and I had a good look at it and it's actually wood, not plastic. It isn't teak though, it looks more like chipboard type material to me. But I was wrong about it being plastic, that's for sure. >> >> At the rear of the wooden top each side are a series of wholes in the case which make up bass reflex ports, put your finger into one of these and you can feel where the wood hasn't been polished so that's how I know with mine. >> >> Nothing like that on mine. >> >> ? You'll also note that the speakers themselves are in separate cabinets, that is to say if you took the top of your Yamaha you'd see 2 boxes either side of the cabinet, these sealed boxes contain the speaker drivers and possibly other components, according to the review I read more than 12 months ago which prompted me to buy my unit, these boxes also contain acoustic echo chambers which help - so the review says - give the Yamaha its amazing sound. >> >> Yes, I noticed that. They are two-way speakers in acoustic chambers as you say, and actually the construction is extremely well thought out. You can definitely hear the difference in audio in comparison to, for instance, Lynne's brother Steve's Sharp micro system which sounds positively dull by comparison. Steve will be impressed i think when he comes over to see this. >> >> ? Absolutely right about the sensitivity of the FM tuner in fact I'd go so far as to say that the FM tuner is next to useless where I am, I reckon you'd have to be sitting right next door to a transmitter. >> >> I am sure that's mostly due to the antenna, to be honest. And that is my only major quibble about this unit. Why on earth Yamaha opted to use a common antenna system for FM and DAB when even in your country, although the frequencies are different, the FM band is from 88 to about 108 MHZ. As I understand it, your DAB+ broadcasts are using the 1.6 to 2.0 MHZ frequency band, (correct me if I'm wrong), because I'm not entirely sure about that. >> >> Ours use much higher frequencies, (I'd have to check those to be sure because I can't quite remember). But I seem to remember reading that it's about 5.8 GHZ. But my point here is how on earth can you expect a common antenna to resonate at two such very different frequency bands, regardless of whether it's over in Australia or over here. >> >> The antenna provided is nothing but a wire dipole and looking at it, it's cut for the digital bands in the UK. >> >> FM, being at a far lower frequency band, needs a far larger antenna to be resonant and I think that the reason FM is so very very deaf is is because the antenna isn't cut for that band. >> >> Therefore, Yamaha should have used twin antenna inputs, one for FM and one for DAB. I'm not a designer, and I'm not sure how they've designed the receivers themselves. But it sounds to me as though the FM receiver is only a single heterodyne receiver which, in itself, is a disadvantage. So all in all I'd say that the tuner is the weakest part of this system. >> >> I haven't yet tried any other mode than the iPod dock, and I didn't sync the material. I'll do that. But on our model, when you sync the iPod or a computer running iTunes, I'm not sure how that works actually. Does it store the content onboard the Yamaha, or what? If not, where's the point in synchronisation? >> >> Also, on ours there's what looks like a HDMI socket on the back. But it isn't marked in the book and the socket itself isn't marked. Any idea what that's for? can't believe it's HDMI unless you can connect this thing to a surround sound receiver. >> >> ? DAB+ is a little on the deaf side and it took me forever to find a satisfactory angle for the antenna, on hot days the Yamaha DAB+ receiver has trouble pulling in DAB+ signals, don't ask me why but it does whereas my Roberts Ecologic 4 portable doesn't have a problem in the world when it comes to DAB+. >> >> I can explain that for you. The reason your receiver is having trouble like that is due to propagation. At the lower frequency bands, atmospherics play a very large roll in the reception of radio and TV signals. The lower frequency signals are far more prone to atmospherics than the higher frequency bands are. I totally understand why lower frequency bands are in use over there, your proximity is far greater from the transmitter than ours is. There are advantages and disadvantages to both systems actually. >> >> Creating MP3 CD'S is easy enough as is putting MP3 files on a USB drive, just organise them as you would on a computer, say 1 folder per album and you'll be able to navigate these on the Yamaha easily enough, pity there's no speech but if you know what you've put on a CD or drive then you have some idea what you're navigating . >> >> How does it handle track numbering? Does it use the iTunes format? Lynne said something about it organising playlists in alphabetical order which seems crazy. Album tracks are rarely organised in alphabetical sequence. :) >> >> ? Yeah! your bedside sounds exactly like mine, Squeezebox Boom and Yamaha have pride of place and each gets used often. >> >> I'm certainly not going to ditch the Boom. Actually the audio that comes out of that thing has to be heard to be believed. In the context of it being Internet audio I mean, but the audio sounds almost CD quality and, in fact, in comparison to some CD's I've heard, it's better quality. >> >> Gordon >> >> >> ======================================= >> >> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free >> >> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat >> >> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: >> >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html >> >> Or: >> >> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: >> >> >> --------------------------------------- > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- From d.griffith at btinternet.com Fri Nov 25 20:24:23 2011 From: d.griffith at btinternet.com (David Griffith) Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 20:24:23 -0000 Subject: Yamaha TSX-140, initial impressions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <173331.37783.qm@smtp820.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> I have spoken to people who maintain and defend FM. I have to say that I am not at all in their camp. Purely personally I consider DAB to be far far superior to FM. Many of my radios have FM and DAB capacity and I would never listen to the FM version of a station, given the choice. FM is only used if there is no or a poor DAB signal. Until you hear the same station on FM and DAB and can switch between the two instantly to compare you do not really realize how superior and clearer the DAB signal is. These views are formed by using Pure Evoke, Pure Move and Pure Pocket dab 1000 and Pocket dab 1500 radios. I have also used a technica radio, forgot the model number and another earlier DAB radio about 10 years ago which did not perform at all well as it was early technology. All the Pure products performed well however. All apart from the evoke and pocket Dab 1000 had FM capacity. I have used various Roberts FM radios and a Phillips Tuner ,not sure of the model, and whilst these are admirable products none of the FM output achieved anything like DAB quality. With a good signal I would personally struggle to distinguish a DAB broadcast from a CD player. So with my Philips tuner/amplifier I would get a superior quality even if I plugged a small portable pocket dab in as an alternative radio device. I bought another pocket dab 1500 for my wife this morning for ?64.95 post free this morning as she has used one for I think 5 years daily and now the battery has run out. Given a replacement battery will cost over ?30 with postage on top I decided to invest in a whole new device. She loved the old pocket dab so it seemed a no brainer to get her another one for Christmas. Regards David Griffith -----Original Message----- From: techno-chat-bounces at techno-chat.net [mailto:techno-chat-bounces at techno-chat.net] On Behalf Of David McLean Sent: 25 November 2011 19:33 To: Techno-Chat ... Technology Enthusiasm! Subject: Re: Yamaha TSX-140, initial impressions I am curious about the sound quality of a DAB broadcast. I am in the good old commercial US so we have IBOC instead which is wedged into the existing FM signal and doesn't really sound any better than the analog FM signal. I've heard DAB is supposed to sound much better. Is that true? On Nov 25, 2011, at 11:20 AM, Dane Trethowan wrote: > Howdy! > > Not sure of the exact frequency range of our DAB+ band but I know you'll find it if you were to look between 130-300MHZ, it occupies some of the space used by our old Analogue TV signals. > > I didn't think such high frequency bands had the problems you explained but I'm sure you're right, all the DAB+ sets I have suffer from this problem to a degree but the Yamaha is by far the worst affected. > > I'm sure you're right about the cut of the antenna too, the Yamaha Hi-Fi tuner I have has 3 antenna connections, 1 for DAB+, 1 for FM and 1 for AM which makes a great deal more sense but then again the Yamaha tuner on its own was worth more than the Yamaha systems were' talking about. > > As I understand it, the Yamaha sorts by numbers in a track name, I wasn't aware that the Yamaha even supported playlists, your model may do but I'm not sure mine does. > > Mine certainly doesn't support the syncing of an iPhone or iPod. > > > On 26/11/2011, at 2:44 AM, Gordon Smith wrote: > >> Hi Dane and all >> >> I'm going to do this in Lynne style, as it'll make things easier. >> >> On 25 Nov 2011, at 14:23, Dane Trethowan wrote: >> >> ? Howdy and good to see you round again. >> >> It's great to be back in the land of the living. >> >> ? I have the model of Yamaha below yours and would like to comment on your observations. >> >> Feel free >> >> ? Not being picky but as I understand it Yamaha call these systems "Desktop Systems", "Micro Systems" are different, they usually have a centre piece that contains the amp and all the other bits and pieces with a speaker on the left and right whereas - as you've noted - the Yamaha has everything including speakers in the one neat box. >> >> The description on the Yamaha UK website of this model is that it is a "Micro System", and it also describes it as "Desktop" audio. >> >> ? So, it seems that Yamaha have cheapened the construction of the TSX-140? My TSX-130 has actually got a wooden teak top with a plastic bottom and you can verify this easily enough. >> >> >> I was wrong about that. Lynne and I had a good look at it and it's actually wood, not plastic. It isn't teak though, it looks more like chipboard type material to me. But I was wrong about it being plastic, that's for sure. >> >> At the rear of the wooden top each side are a series of wholes in the case which make up bass reflex ports, put your finger into one of these and you can feel where the wood hasn't been polished so that's how I know with mine. >> >> Nothing like that on mine. >> >> ? You'll also note that the speakers themselves are in separate cabinets, that is to say if you took the top of your Yamaha you'd see 2 boxes either side of the cabinet, these sealed boxes contain the speaker drivers and possibly other components, according to the review I read more than 12 months ago which prompted me to buy my unit, these boxes also contain acoustic echo chambers which help - so the review says - give the Yamaha its amazing sound. >> >> Yes, I noticed that. They are two-way speakers in acoustic chambers as you say, and actually the construction is extremely well thought out. You can definitely hear the difference in audio in comparison to, for instance, Lynne's brother Steve's Sharp micro system which sounds positively dull by comparison. Steve will be impressed i think when he comes over to see this. >> >> ? Absolutely right about the sensitivity of the FM tuner in fact I'd go so far as to say that the FM tuner is next to useless where I am, I reckon you'd have to be sitting right next door to a transmitter. >> >> I am sure that's mostly due to the antenna, to be honest. And that is my only major quibble about this unit. Why on earth Yamaha opted to use a common antenna system for FM and DAB when even in your country, although the frequencies are different, the FM band is from 88 to about 108 MHZ. As I understand it, your DAB+ broadcasts are using the 1.6 to 2.0 MHZ frequency band, (correct me if I'm wrong), because I'm not entirely sure about that. >> >> Ours use much higher frequencies, (I'd have to check those to be sure because I can't quite remember). But I seem to remember reading that it's about 5.8 GHZ. But my point here is how on earth can you expect a common antenna to resonate at two such very different frequency bands, regardless of whether it's over in Australia or over here. >> >> The antenna provided is nothing but a wire dipole and looking at it, it's cut for the digital bands in the UK. >> >> FM, being at a far lower frequency band, needs a far larger antenna to be resonant and I think that the reason FM is so very very deaf is is because the antenna isn't cut for that band. >> >> Therefore, Yamaha should have used twin antenna inputs, one for FM and one for DAB. I'm not a designer, and I'm not sure how they've designed the receivers themselves. But it sounds to me as though the FM receiver is only a single heterodyne receiver which, in itself, is a disadvantage. So all in all I'd say that the tuner is the weakest part of this system. >> >> I haven't yet tried any other mode than the iPod dock, and I didn't sync the material. I'll do that. But on our model, when you sync the iPod or a computer running iTunes, I'm not sure how that works actually. Does it store the content onboard the Yamaha, or what? If not, where's the point in synchronisation? >> >> Also, on ours there's what looks like a HDMI socket on the back. But it isn't marked in the book and the socket itself isn't marked. Any idea what that's for? can't believe it's HDMI unless you can connect this thing to a surround sound receiver. >> >> ? DAB+ is a little on the deaf side and it took me forever to find a satisfactory angle for the antenna, on hot days the Yamaha DAB+ receiver has trouble pulling in DAB+ signals, don't ask me why but it does whereas my Roberts Ecologic 4 portable doesn't have a problem in the world when it comes to DAB+. >> >> I can explain that for you. The reason your receiver is having trouble like that is due to propagation. At the lower frequency bands, atmospherics play a very large roll in the reception of radio and TV signals. The lower frequency signals are far more prone to atmospherics than the higher frequency bands are. I totally understand why lower frequency bands are in use over there, your proximity is far greater from the transmitter than ours is. There are advantages and disadvantages to both systems actually. >> >> Creating MP3 CD'S is easy enough as is putting MP3 files on a USB drive, just organise them as you would on a computer, say 1 folder per album and you'll be able to navigate these on the Yamaha easily enough, pity there's no speech but if you know what you've put on a CD or drive then you have some idea what you're navigating . >> >> How does it handle track numbering? Does it use the iTunes format? >> Lynne said something about it organising playlists in alphabetical >> order which seems crazy. Album tracks are rarely organised in >> alphabetical sequence. :) >> >> ? Yeah! your bedside sounds exactly like mine, Squeezebox Boom and Yamaha have pride of place and each gets used often. >> >> I'm certainly not going to ditch the Boom. Actually the audio that comes out of that thing has to be heard to be believed. In the context of it being Internet audio I mean, but the audio sounds almost CD quality and, in fact, in comparison to some CD's I've heard, it's better quality. >> >> Gordon >> >> >> ======================================= >> >> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, >> virus and worm-free >> >> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's >> dedicated web pages located at >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat >> >> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: >> >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html >> >> Or: >> >> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: >> > > >> >> --------------------------------------- > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, > virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's > dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- ======================================= The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html Or: you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: --------------------------------------- __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 6552 (20111018) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 6552 (20111018) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 6552 (20111018) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com From grtdane at internode.on.net Sat Nov 26 01:37:42 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 12:37:42 +1100 Subject: Android Version 4.0 - Icecream Sandwich Message-ID: <4ED042E6.7010905@internode.on.net> Hi Folks! Thinking about getting a smart phone? If I were you I'd hold off a little longer as we're about to see some huge changes in operating systems very soon. Android 4.0 is being worked on and you can read all about it at iPhone will not be the only truly accessible smart phone on the market, with Android 4.0 you'll have the Screen Reader at your fingertips on a wide variety of phones and tablets. You can keep up to date with the progress of Android 4.0 at the above web site. -- Dane Trethowan From Melton Victoria Australia skype callto:grtdane12 MSN: grtdane at dane-trethowan.net From grtdane at internode.on.net Sat Nov 26 01:55:50 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 12:55:50 +1100 Subject: Altec Lansing Portable iPod Dock Message-ID: <4ED04726.3020105@internode.on.net> Hi folks! Just ordered an Altec Lansing portable iPod dock, there's a company here that have a special price going for them at the moment. My payment has been processed and order approved so I should have the beast within 7-10 days, will let you know what I find though judging on the past couple of Altec Lansing products I've reviewed here on list I doubt I'll be disappointed. -- Dane Trethowan From Melton Victoria Australia skype callto:grtdane12 MSN: grtdane at dane-trethowan.net From marrie12 at gmail.com Sat Nov 26 03:29:34 2011 From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah Alawami) Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 19:29:34 -0800 Subject: Android Version 4.0 - Icecream Sandwich In-Reply-To: <4ED042E6.7010905@internode.on.net> References: <4ED042E6.7010905@internode.on.net> Message-ID: We'll see when it comes out. and if the carriers push it out as with droid it is from dev to carrier to you and most of the time according to a chart I saw most phones are never updated with in there contracts. and the iphone is from dev to you and you get the update when you want it. I'll stick with IOS for now. but again, we'll see what happens. I've been reading the things wiht interest about the droid in case I have to ever switch for a cheaper phone. Take care all On Nov 25, 2011, at 5:37 PM, Dane Trethowan wrote: > Hi Folks! > > Thinking about getting a smart phone? If I were you I'd hold off a little longer as we're about to see some huge changes in operating systems very soon. > > Android 4.0 is being worked on and you can read all about it at > > iPhone will not be the only truly accessible smart phone on the market, with Android 4.0 you'll have the Screen Reader at your fingertips on a wide variety of phones and tablets. > > You can keep up to date with the progress of Android 4.0 at the above web site. > > > -- > Dane Trethowan > From Melton Victoria Australia > skype callto:grtdane12 > MSN: grtdane at dane-trethowan.net > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- From grtdane at internode.on.net Sat Nov 26 03:38:52 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 14:38:52 +1100 Subject: Android Version 4.0 - Icecream Sandwich In-Reply-To: References: <4ED042E6.7010905@internode.on.net> Message-ID: <4DCCA442-E73C-44EC-A4BA-7E7D171EA843@internode.on.net> Don't talk rubbish please Sarah , that's why I posted the link in the first place, by following it you can read the progress status of 4.0 so you'll know exactly what you're getting when you're ready to buy. On 26/11/2011, at 2:29 PM, Sarah Alawami wrote: > We'll see when it comes out. and if the carriers push it out as with droid it is from dev to carrier to you and most of the time according to a chart I saw most phones are never updated with in there contracts. and the iphone is from dev to you and you get the update when you want it. I'll stick with IOS for now. but again, we'll see what happens. I've been reading the things wiht interest about the droid in case I have to ever switch for a cheaper phone. > > Take care all > On Nov 25, 2011, at 5:37 PM, Dane Trethowan wrote: > >> Hi Folks! >> >> Thinking about getting a smart phone? If I were you I'd hold off a little longer as we're about to see some huge changes in operating systems very soon. >> >> Android 4.0 is being worked on and you can read all about it at >> >> iPhone will not be the only truly accessible smart phone on the market, with Android 4.0 you'll have the Screen Reader at your fingertips on a wide variety of phones and tablets. >> >> You can keep up to date with the progress of Android 4.0 at the above web site. >> >> >> -- >> Dane Trethowan >> From Melton Victoria Australia >> skype callto:grtdane12 >> MSN: grtdane at dane-trethowan.net >> >> >> ======================================= >> >> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free >> >> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat >> >> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: >> >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html >> >> Or: >> >> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: >> >> >> --------------------------------------- > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- From marrie12 at gmail.com Sat Nov 26 04:11:20 2011 From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah Alawami) Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 20:11:20 -0800 Subject: Android Version 4.0 - Icecream Sandwich In-Reply-To: <4DCCA442-E73C-44EC-A4BA-7E7D171EA843@internode.on.net> References: <4ED042E6.7010905@internode.on.net> <4DCCA442-E73C-44EC-A4BA-7E7D171EA843@internode.on.net> Message-ID: <61BEC3B1-9A54-4430-BA56-B7D474172E8F@gmail.com> OH no I mean with the carriers push it out. not the devs. The dev pushes it out to sprint let's say but sprint decides in the end weather to push it out to what ever phone. It might be different where you live, but here that's how they do things and it sucks big time . and I know of a beta tester who tested it and is not happy with it. He could not say why, but I'm sure he will at some point. On Nov 25, 2011, at 7:38 PM, Dane Trethowan wrote: > Don't talk rubbish please Sarah , that's why I posted the link in the first place, by following it you can read the progress status of 4.0 so you'll know exactly what you're getting when you're ready to buy. > > > On 26/11/2011, at 2:29 PM, Sarah Alawami wrote: > >> We'll see when it comes out. and if the carriers push it out as with droid it is from dev to carrier to you and most of the time according to a chart I saw most phones are never updated with in there contracts. and the iphone is from dev to you and you get the update when you want it. I'll stick with IOS for now. but again, we'll see what happens. I've been reading the things wiht interest about the droid in case I have to ever switch for a cheaper phone. >> >> Take care all >> On Nov 25, 2011, at 5:37 PM, Dane Trethowan wrote: >> >>> Hi Folks! >>> >>> Thinking about getting a smart phone? If I were you I'd hold off a little longer as we're about to see some huge changes in operating systems very soon. >>> >>> Android 4.0 is being worked on and you can read all about it at >>> >>> iPhone will not be the only truly accessible smart phone on the market, with Android 4.0 you'll have the Screen Reader at your fingertips on a wide variety of phones and tablets. >>> >>> You can keep up to date with the progress of Android 4.0 at the above web site. >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Dane Trethowan >>> From Melton Victoria Australia >>> skype callto:grtdane12 >>> MSN: grtdane at dane-trethowan.net >>> >>> >>> ======================================= >>> >>> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free >>> >>> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at >>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat >>> >>> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: >>> >>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html >>> >>> Or: >>> >>> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: >>> >>> >>> --------------------------------------- >> >> >> ======================================= >> >> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free >> >> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat >> >> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: >> >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html >> >> Or: >> >> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: >> >> >> --------------------------------------- > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- From marrie12 at gmail.com Sat Nov 26 04:12:16 2011 From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah Alawami) Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 20:12:16 -0800 Subject: Altec Lansing Portable iPod Dock In-Reply-To: <4ED04726.3020105@internode.on.net> References: <4ED04726.3020105@internode.on.net> Message-ID: Iv'e heard good things regarding that company. and when the iphone 5 comes out I plan on upgradeing to that and getting one of there ipod docs on black friday. I'm picky about the sound and yeah. Take care. On Nov 25, 2011, at 5:55 PM, Dane Trethowan wrote: > Hi folks! > > Just ordered an Altec Lansing portable iPod dock, there's a company here that have a special price going for them at the moment. > > My payment has been processed and order approved so I should have the beast within 7-10 days, will let you know what I find though judging on the past couple of Altec Lansing products I've reviewed here on list I doubt I'll be disappointed. > > > -- > Dane Trethowan > From Melton Victoria Australia > skype callto:grtdane12 > MSN: grtdane at dane-trethowan.net > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- From grtdane at internode.on.net Sat Nov 26 04:16:53 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 15:16:53 +1100 Subject: Altec Lansing Portable iPod Dock In-Reply-To: References: <4ED04726.3020105@internode.on.net> Message-ID: <9976F708-4CEE-49BC-84B8-376172DDF9B4@internode.on.net> I have 2 of their speaker systems here, the Expressions Plus and the Expressions Ultra, both are veyr good 2.1 channel speaker systems. Altec Lansing is also responsible for the speaker system in the HP Entertainment PC I have and for notebook speakers they're pretty good. On 26/11/2011, at 3:12 PM, Sarah Alawami wrote: > Iv'e heard good things regarding that company. and when the iphone 5 comes out I plan on upgradeing to that and getting one of there ipod docs on black friday. I'm picky about the sound and yeah. > > Take care. > On Nov 25, 2011, at 5:55 PM, Dane Trethowan wrote: > >> Hi folks! >> >> Just ordered an Altec Lansing portable iPod dock, there's a company here that have a special price going for them at the moment. >> >> My payment has been processed and order approved so I should have the beast within 7-10 days, will let you know what I find though judging on the past couple of Altec Lansing products I've reviewed here on list I doubt I'll be disappointed. >> >> >> -- >> Dane Trethowan >> From Melton Victoria Australia >> skype callto:grtdane12 >> MSN: grtdane at dane-trethowan.net >> >> >> ======================================= >> >> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free >> >> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat >> >> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: >> >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html >> >> Or: >> >> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: >> >> >> --------------------------------------- > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- From martin at x.it.okstate.edu Sat Nov 26 04:20:39 2011 From: martin at x.it.okstate.edu (Martin McCormick) Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 22:20:39 -0600 Subject: Yamaha Contacted Message-ID: <201111260420.pAQ4KdR2033927@x.it.okstate.edu> Lynn and anybody else who is interested, The United States, Canada and Mexico as well as most of the Central American countries all use the same power supply hookup hardware and voltages so I can't think of a single good reason why gear made for the North American market would have to be specially adapted as far as power goes. The safety codes may be more or less strict in different countries, here, but Canadian electrical goods use the same outlets as are found here. As I described it before, North American sockets installed after 1962 or so, if compared to a clock face, would have a round hole at 6 o'clock, a virtical slot at 9 which is supposed to be connected to Neutral, and a slightly narrower slot at 3 which is "hot" with 120 volts. I don't know about digital televisions as to whether Canada uses the same encoding standard as we do, but that's not a power issue. The same is true with FM digital radios. Canada uses a different scheme more like yours in the UK for digital radio, but again, that's not power related. The equipment would actually safely power up in either country, but you might not have anything to receive;-). Audio gear, as long as it is not a digital radio, should travel everywhere in North America without a problem. If you were in Canada with one of our digital radios, it would still receive FM analog just fine, just not Canadian digital broadcasting. It wouldn't catch fire or not fit the power socket. I wish you luck on getting your replacement power supply. It would be such a mess to have to send the whole thing back over a $20 or maybe $50 power supply because it's gone missing from the package. "Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith" writes: > Hello Martin & everybody > > I'm told that the various models are packaged in regional operations > centres. Yamaha Europe is, for example, based in Germany. They box them > as they receive the various models from the Yamaha production centre in > China. > > The suppliers buy them in bulk , and wholesale them to the sellers around > Europe. The UK model is unique in as much as it is supplied with 2 power > cables; this is because the UK uses a different form of power outlet to > continental Europe. Our plugs are configured in a triangular formation > where the left-hand pin is neutral, the right-hand pin is live (where the > fuse is located) and the top pin is the earth terminal. > > The European plugs use two round pins which are interchangeable. The > earth, where it's used, is via the outer casing of the plug itself and > there is no fuse in the plug. > > I believe that the US and Canada, along with Australia, New Zealand and > Asia, receive their imports direct from the main factory in China. I am > not sure how they handle their packaging because obviously the US and > Canadian power supplies are different. I'd imagine it's the same supply, > but with a couple of modifications to accommodate the different power > settings. > > Australia does things the sensible way, as we do and most of the rest of > the world does. We all use the same power configurations which I'm sure > makes things easier for manufacturers. > > Although the plug configurations are different, that doesn't really, I'd > imagine, pose much of a problem since the only differences would be in > the manufacturing of the power cables which would be done in bulk anyway > probably by a different company. > > Anyway, as I said, I used the Yamaha website. I don't particularly fancy > incurring the expense of having to make lengthy phone calls overseas. > That was my initial tripe, which it seems others don't agree with. Maybe > I'm just more fussy; maybe I just watch the pennies more than some. But I > did not see why I should have this mess to sort out. Under UK law, the > seller has an obligation to ensure that defective, missing or wrongly > included components are replaced as per the consumer's request. The > consumer has the right to cancel the contract of purchase within 14 days > if they are not happy with their product for any reason. From lynne at mac-access.net Sat Nov 26 08:01:31 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 08:01:31 +0000 Subject: NVDA 11.3 Message-ID: Hello everybody Firstly, I plan to approach the developers to see if this would be helpful or acceptable to them. But we would very much like to support the project by offering them a UK mirror from which people could download the application. In the meanwhile, I am placing NVDA in the accessibility section on our software site. Tis is only a small site, but it's secure and fully accessible. We support CSS3 and will shortly be adding HTML5 code to replace the current HTLM4.01. We also have interfaces for mobile devices such as iPhone and Blackberry. The presence of a mobile device is automatically detected when you log in. if you're interested in having a look around, feel free. The site is part of our commercial network; so speed has been capped somewhat in order to give commercial applications priority. But you can find the secure SSL authenticated URL to our facility here: we use the latest industry-standard 2048-bit SSL certificates for all of our services; including our mail servers. If you have any questions or comments, don't hesitate to contact me off list or on list if you want the rest of the group to see them. But I should say from the outset that people take this site on an as-is basis. If you don't like it, don't use it; it's as simple as that. We just offer it as an easy and convenient way for people to find some things which we think might be useful to others, which we ourselves have collected. I will add NVDA 11.3 to that collection in a few seconds. Lynne From lynne at mac-access.net Sat Nov 26 08:42:23 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 08:42:23 +0000 Subject: DAB Versus iBoc In-Reply-To: References: <41710B20-62E6-4B80-AF31-C98AF1241951@internode.on.net> <70D8B0B9-A427-45E9-814E-F94BE08F2A0C@mac-access.net> <25FA7622-9658-48FE-A868-D8791FE01E70@internode.on.net> Message-ID: Hello David I've heard recordings of your system and although it's probably true to say that the recording might have compromised the quality, I wasn't particularly impressed. It fell way short of what we get on our DAB systems. On 25 Nov 2011, at 19:32, David McLean wrote: ? I am curious about the sound quality of a DAB broadcast. I am in the good old commercial US so we have IBOC instead which is wedged into the existing FM signal and doesn't really sound any better than the analog FM signal. I've heard DAB is supposed to sound much better. Is that true? From lynne at mac-access.net Sat Nov 26 08:50:31 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 08:50:31 +0000 Subject: DAB In-Reply-To: <173331.37783.qm@smtp820.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <173331.37783.qm@smtp820.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1A4E9B04-45B5-4276-A3A1-01E0C6A60AAA@mac-access.net> Hello David I totally agree with you. FM is horrible in comparison; that's UK broadcasting I'm talking about here. In other parts of the world, they have their stereo broadcasting on AM, which I'm not going to comment on as I've never heard it. But if you put DAB up against FM stereo, it's a case of a knock-out in the first round. FM can't hold a candle to DAB, even in terms of speech quality. There was recently an experiment by the BBC, (they didn't publicise the information). But they broadcast a few football matches with a stereo signal so that you could hear what was happening in the crowd in stereo. I'm not a football fan; but even I, who was watching simultaneous pictures on TV, have to say that it made the game much more realistic and Gordon enjoyed the commentary immensely as a result. Lynne On 25 Nov 2011, at 20:24, David Griffith wrote: I have spoken to people who maintain and defend FM. I have to say that I am not at all in their camp. Purely personally I consider DAB to be far far superior to FM. Many of my radios have FM and DAB capacity and I would never listen to the FM version of a station, given the choice. FM is only used if there is no or a poor DAB signal. Until you hear the same station on FM and DAB and can switch between the two instantly to compare you do not really realize how superior and clearer the DAB signal is. From support at techno-chat.net Sat Nov 26 08:53:31 2011 From: support at techno-chat.net (Gordon & Lynne) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 08:53:31 +0000 Subject: Subject Lines Message-ID: <0AD24933-3C80-41BE-A36E-AA155E15EAAD@techno-chat.net> Hello everybody Just a gentle reminder; could you try to keep your subject lines topical please. For instance, the recent discussion of the Yamaha TSX-140 which I started has now migrated to other similar, but not directly related, topics. Therefore, the subject lines should be changed. Sorry to sound fussy; but it helps with the list archives. Please try to help us help you. Thank you; Lynne From lynne at mac-access.net Sat Nov 26 08:57:21 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 08:57:21 +0000 Subject: Android Version 4.0 - Icecream Sandwich In-Reply-To: <4ED042E6.7010905@internode.on.net> References: <4ED042E6.7010905@internode.on.net> Message-ID: <23AB3FB9-7FDD-455B-A639-3AAB5A652F95@mac-access.net> Hello Dane This is excellent news. I think you know that at the moment we are well and truly in the Apple camp. But it would be foolish of us not to applaud the efforts of other groups who are making their phones accessible and usable, right out of the box. So I really hope this lives up to the expectations. Lynne On 26 Nov 2011, at 01:37, Dane Trethowan wrote: ? Android 4.0 is being worked on and you can read all about it at iPhone will not be the only truly accessible smart phone on the market, with Android 4.0 you'll have the Screen Reader at your fingertips on a wide variety of phones and tablets. You can keep up to date with the progress of Android 4.0 at the above web site. From grtdane at internode.on.net Sat Nov 26 09:09:40 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane trethowan) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 20:09:40 +1100 Subject: Android Version 4.0 - Icecream Sandwich In-Reply-To: <23AB3FB9-7FDD-455B-A639-3AAB5A652F95@mac-access.net> References: <4ED042E6.7010905@internode.on.net> <23AB3FB9-7FDD-455B-A639-3AAB5A652F95@mac-access.net> Message-ID: <4ED0ACD4.9030006@internode.on.net> The part which really excites me is that the progress reports on the project are open and up there for anyone to read and comment on. On 26/11/2011 7:57 PM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: > Hello Dane > > This is excellent news. I think you know that at the moment we are well and truly in the Apple camp. But it would be foolish of us not to applaud the efforts of other groups who are making their phones accessible and usable, right out of the box. So I really hope this lives up to the expectations. > > Lynne > > On 26 Nov 2011, at 01:37, Dane Trethowan wrote: > > ? Android 4.0 is being worked on and you can read all about it at > > iPhone will not be the only truly accessible smart phone on the market, with Android 4.0 you'll have the Screen Reader at your fingertips on a wide variety of phones and tablets. > > You can keep up to date with the progress of Android 4.0 at the above web site. > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- -- sent from my HP Powerhouse Notebook. From grtdane at internode.on.net Sat Nov 26 09:18:16 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane trethowan) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 20:18:16 +1100 Subject: DAB In-Reply-To: <1A4E9B04-45B5-4276-A3A1-01E0C6A60AAA@mac-access.net> References: <173331.37783.qm@smtp820.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <1A4E9B04-45B5-4276-A3A1-01E0C6A60AAA@mac-access.net> Message-ID: <4ED0AED8.7020402@internode.on.net> Okay well let's add another lay of complexity to the discussion . As I understand it in the U.S., they run 2 different versions of Iboc or as they call it HD Radio? 1 on the FM band and 1 on the AM band. I've not heard both standards myself but I'd be most itnerested to hear them if someone would be willing to oblidge. As far as FM sounding worse than other digital media? Well that's a very interesting discussion in its own right. Here so many channels have been squeezed into so little spectrum space for DAB+ that the FM transmissions actually sound better in most cases as low compression rates are used on the DAB+ band. On 26/11/2011 7:50 PM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: > Hello David > > I totally agree with you. FM is horrible in comparison; that's UK broadcasting I'm talking about here. In other parts of the world, they have their stereo broadcasting on AM, which I'm not going to comment on as I've never heard it. But if you put DAB up against FM stereo, it's a case of a knock-out in the first round. FM can't hold a candle to DAB, even in terms of speech quality. > > There was recently an experiment by the BBC, (they didn't publicise the information). But they broadcast a few football matches with a stereo signal so that you could hear what was happening in the crowd in stereo. I'm not a football fan; but even I, who was watching simultaneous pictures on TV, have to say that it made the game much more realistic and Gordon enjoyed the commentary immensely as a result. > > Lynne > > On 25 Nov 2011, at 20:24, David Griffith wrote: > > I have spoken to people who maintain and defend FM. I have to say that I am > not at all in their camp. Purely personally I consider DAB to be far far > superior to FM. > Many of my radios have FM and DAB capacity and I would never listen to the > FM version of a station, given the choice. FM is only used if there is no > or a poor DAB signal. > Until you hear the same station on FM and DAB and can switch between the two > instantly to compare you do not really realize how superior and clearer the > DAB signal is. > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- -- sent from my HP Powerhouse Notebook. From lynne at mac-access.net Sat Nov 26 10:29:10 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 10:29:10 +0000 Subject: Android Version 4.0 - Icecream Sandwich In-Reply-To: <4ED0ACD4.9030006@internode.on.net> References: <4ED042E6.7010905@internode.on.net> <23AB3FB9-7FDD-455B-A639-3AAB5A652F95@mac-access.net> <4ED0ACD4.9030006@internode.on.net> Message-ID: <378F2DEF-C590-41E0-AA00-597AEFF8054E@mac-access.net> hello Dane On 26 Nov 2011, at 09:09, Dane trethowan wrote: ? The part which really excites me is that the progress reports on the project are open and up there for anyone to read and comment on. As it should be. Developers who work with, not against, their customers are going to see the benefit. Lynne From gordon at mac-access.net Sat Nov 26 10:36:25 2011 From: gordon at mac-access.net (Gordon Smith) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 10:36:25 +0000 Subject: DAB In-Reply-To: <4ED0AED8.7020402@internode.on.net> References: <173331.37783.qm@smtp820.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <1A4E9B04-45B5-4276-A3A1-01E0C6A60AAA@mac-access.net> <4ED0AED8.7020402@internode.on.net> Message-ID: <5483B57D-3724-4C17-A9E9-2AF27F7D2212@mac-access.net> Hi Dane I just want to make a couple of comments here. On 26 Nov 2011, at 09:18, Dane trethowan wrote: Dane said: As I understand it in the U.S., they run 2 different versions of Iboc or as they call it HD Radio? 1 on the FM band and 1 on the AM band. Gordon said: There's no such thing as an "AM" or "FM" band. Am, (Amplitude modulation) and "FM", (frequency modulation) can be used anywhere. They are classes of emission and not frequency specific modes of transmission. I'm sure you know that; but I wanted it to be clear for the benefit of any possible readers who do not. Gordon From grtdane at internode.on.net Sat Nov 26 10:38:32 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 21:38:32 +1100 Subject: DAB In-Reply-To: <5483B57D-3724-4C17-A9E9-2AF27F7D2212@mac-access.net> References: <173331.37783.qm@smtp820.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <1A4E9B04-45B5-4276-A3A1-01E0C6A60AAA@mac-access.net> <4ED0AED8.7020402@internode.on.net> <5483B57D-3724-4C17-A9E9-2AF27F7D2212@mac-access.net> Message-ID: <01523AA3-E90D-48C1-92D1-35B4546012FE@internode.on.net> I appreciate that but people think in modes of FM and AM thus the 2 different Iboc systems on the different frequency ranges. On 26/11/2011, at 9:36 PM, Gordon Smith wrote: > Hi Dane > > I just want to make a couple of comments here. > > On 26 Nov 2011, at 09:18, Dane trethowan wrote: > > Dane said: > > As I understand it in the U.S., they run 2 different versions of Iboc or as they call it HD Radio? 1 on the FM band and 1 on the AM band. > > Gordon said: > > There's no such thing as an "AM" or "FM" band. Am, (Amplitude modulation) and "FM", (frequency modulation) can be used anywhere. They are classes of emission and not frequency specific modes of transmission. I'm sure you know that; but I wanted it to be clear for the benefit of any possible readers who do not. > > Gordon > > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- From gordon at mac-access.net Sat Nov 26 10:41:31 2011 From: gordon at mac-access.net (Gordon Smith) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 10:41:31 +0000 Subject: Adobe DreamWeaver CS5.5 Message-ID: <08631571-829C-4421-A281-9AC76F5F9CF7@mac-access.net> Hello everybody My wonderful wife has just given me the box containing DreamWeaver CS5.5 which arrived yesterday but I wasn't feeling up to much so she didn't say anything so as, as she put it, I didn't overdo things and make myself worse. Anyway, to the point. I'm going to test this on both 32 and 64-bit versions of Windows 7 and, when I install it, the 32-bit version of XP. I am trying to find a place where I can get hold of the 64-bit version of XP, (legally). If anybody knows of such a place where I could buy and download this, plea do let me know. Anyway, I'm going to be testing for accessibility; so, if anybody is interested I will let the group know. Gordon From gordon at mac-access.net Sat Nov 26 10:43:27 2011 From: gordon at mac-access.net (Gordon Smith) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 10:43:27 +0000 Subject: Techno-Chat Blog! Message-ID: <04D58813-AD2B-437A-B99E-5E9F465E4D2F@mac-access.net> Hi again all I am just in the process of configuring our new blog. This will be up and running this morning alongside our Mac Access blog. I'll give you more info when it's up and running and I invite comment and contributions. This will be a technology blog as per this group. We very much welcome any contributions, and they will be appreciated. Gordon From david.mclean at cox.net Sat Nov 26 09:53:17 2011 From: david.mclean at cox.net (David McLean) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 04:53:17 -0500 Subject: DAB In-Reply-To: <4ED0AED8.7020402@internode.on.net> References: <173331.37783.qm@smtp820.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <1A4E9B04-45B5-4276-A3A1-01E0C6A60AAA@mac-access.net> <4ED0AED8.7020402@internode.on.net> Message-ID: O n AM IBOC is used and does intact improve the sound quality significantly. The downside is that each adjacent channel is smothered in noise garbage caused by the digital signal. On FM the stander channel is 200khz wide but in the case of Hd radio 50khz at the top is use for the HD2 and potentially HD3 channels. I have yet to hear anything on FM that truly sounds better than the standard fm broadcast signal. Also for AM while it is true the sound is improved it simply means that the standard right wing rant talk radio sounds clearer now and I have no more interest in listening to it than I had before. On Nov 26, 2011, at 4:18 AM, Dane trethowan wrote: > Okay well let's add another lay of complexity to the discussion . > > As I understand it in the U.S., they run 2 different versions of Iboc or as they call it HD Radio? 1 on the FM band and 1 on the AM band. > > I've not heard both standards myself but I'd be most itnerested to hear them if someone would be willing to oblidge. > > As far as FM sounding worse than other digital media? Well that's a very interesting discussion in its own right. > > Here so many channels have been squeezed into so little spectrum space for DAB+ that the FM transmissions actually sound better in most cases as low compression rates are used on the DAB+ band. > > > > On 26/11/2011 7:50 PM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: >> Hello David >> >> I totally agree with you. FM is horrible in comparison; that's UK broadcasting I'm talking about here. In other parts of the world, they have their stereo broadcasting on AM, which I'm not going to comment on as I've never heard it. But if you put DAB up against FM stereo, it's a case of a knock-out in the first round. FM can't hold a candle to DAB, even in terms of speech quality. >> >> There was recently an experiment by the BBC, (they didn't publicise the information). But they broadcast a few football matches with a stereo signal so that you could hear what was happening in the crowd in stereo. I'm not a football fan; but even I, who was watching simultaneous pictures on TV, have to say that it made the game much more realistic and Gordon enjoyed the commentary immensely as a result. >> >> Lynne >> >> On 25 Nov 2011, at 20:24, David Griffith wrote: >> >> I have spoken to people who maintain and defend FM. I have to say that I am >> not at all in their camp. Purely personally I consider DAB to be far far >> superior to FM. >> Many of my radios have FM and DAB capacity and I would never listen to the >> FM version of a station, given the choice. FM is only used if there is no >> or a poor DAB signal. >> Until you hear the same station on FM and DAB and can switch between the two >> instantly to compare you do not really realize how superior and clearer the >> DAB signal is. >> >> >> ======================================= >> >> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free >> >> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat >> >> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: >> >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html >> >> Or: >> >> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: >> >> >> --------------------------------------- > > -- > sent from my HP Powerhouse Notebook. > > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- From martin at x.it.okstate.edu Sat Nov 26 15:09:25 2011 From: martin at x.it.okstate.edu (Martin McCormick) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 09:09:25 -0600 Subject: DAB Message-ID: <201111261509.pAQF9P8O036661@x.it.okstate.edu> I don't yet own a HD radio mostly because what is available on AM and FM, here, ranges from positively rotten to barely tolerable, in my opinion, but that truly is just one person's opinion. The AM stereo that Lynn mentioned in a previous message is kind of an interesting story. I am too lazy to look up exact dates and system names, but we tried AM stereo in the United States back in the eighties and it was a total flop. The FCC had the same rules for AM stereo that they have always used for improvements in broadcast technology such as the introduction of stereo to FM around 1960 and color television in 1954 and then stereo sound to television in the early eighties. The rules say that the new improvements must not make a radio or television channel occupy any more spectrum space than an existing channel and that they must be compatible with existing technology so that every existing radio or television set doesn't become a paper weight the day the new technology comes on air. They also said that after a trial period in which the private market could experiment with several technologies, only one would be chosen as the national standard. That last rule was bent a bit with AM stereo so we got 4, yes, 4 incompatible systems during the eighties. All 4 sort of worked and a few high-end tuner manufacturers built AM and FM tuners that could receive them all. Most people settled for buying a set that would receive any stereo AM stations in their area if they even cared at all. The chances were good that not all the stereo stations receivable used the same format so it was a mess from Day 1. AM stereo in North America quietly died with not so much as a whimper and may all that expensive AM equipment rest in pieces. The IBOC system we use in North America now also bends the rules a bit in that it does cause AM stations to take up more room on the dial, so to speak. There is only one digital system approved for the United States and that is a system licensed by the iBiquity Corporation to piggy back digital information on AM channels. iBiquity also licenses a similar, but much wider-band signal processing system for the FM broadcast band that also causes a FM station to occupy a little more spectrum space, but it's not quite as disruptive to adjacent channels as is the AM system. The iBiquity system delays the analog sound by 8 seconds because there are 8 seconds of audio stored in the digital buffers in a HD radio. The idea is that if your HD radio looses the digital signal and switches to analog mode, you will still hear a seemless switch over. If you were listening to a digital broadcast in your car or on a portable radio and carried the radio in to a weak spot, the 8-second delay would make the digital audio and analog audio come out exactly at the same instant. I hope all this makes sense. People who have listened critically say that AM digital sounds like very good FM analog stereo today. FM digital is CD-quality sound. When I looked up iBiquity, I was sent to a wikipedia article and a quick read of that indicates that this system is actually a fairly versatile system in that it may one-day not share the channel with analog audio. If you run the AM version without analog audio, it only takes up the spectrum space of one normal AM broadcast channel but older AM radios would just hear noise, there. The argument as to whether or not we should plan to scrap analog radio for a clean new digital system like the UK, Australia and Canada are doing is still going on, here, but one problem in North America is distance and the fact that everybody and their dogs want pieces of spectrum for all kinds of new digital services. As some of you have already mentioned, not all frequencies are equal so nature and the laws of physics dictate who goes where to a large extent. We may, someday, end up with digital broadcast radio on frequencies used by the old analog TV channels, but I am betting that in North America, analog broadcasting may slowly disappear from the AM broadcast band and one day, 40 or 50 years from now, that band will either go dark or be full, end to end, with digital hiss. AM analog radio is the electronic equivalent of an oil lamp. At night, here, the AM broadcast band is end-to-end noise that does nobody any good at all. If a thunderstorm is anywhere nearby as in a few hundred miles, you can stick a fork in it. It is done. IBOC on FM does work well so there is no push to turn off the analog service. A digital signal theoretically goes anywhere the analog signal goes so, in my opinion anyway, the technology we are using here on FM broadcasting to send digital radio is sensable for the near future. This definitely is not a "My toy is better" argument, but a case that one size doesn't fit all. There are huge areas of the United States, Canada and Australia where you can drive for hundreds of miles and not meet another soul. satellites are about the only affordable way to get television and high-quality radio and data services to those few who live ther. The only other choice for audio is AM short and medium-wave signals. We should probably be using the AM broadcast band for a few regional power houses and forget the rest. From marrie12 at gmail.com Sat Nov 26 17:23:03 2011 From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah Alawami) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 09:23:03 -0800 Subject: Altec Lansing Portable iPod Dock In-Reply-To: <9976F708-4CEE-49BC-84B8-376172DDF9B4@internode.on.net> References: <4ED04726.3020105@internode.on.net> <9976F708-4CEE-49BC-84B8-376172DDF9B4@internode.on.net> Message-ID: <3235EA13-CA4B-4261-8607-521B54CD1FDC@gmail.com> Yeah I had a laptop with those speakers in it and they produced enough sound to be heard in a small room. It was great! and they never ever distorted even though I constently had them up at full volume. for about 5 years straight lol! On Nov 25, 2011, at 8:16 PM, Dane Trethowan wrote: > I have 2 of their speaker systems here, the Expressions Plus and the Expressions Ultra, both are veyr good 2.1 channel speaker systems. > > Altec Lansing is also responsible for the speaker system in the HP Entertainment PC I have and for notebook speakers they're pretty good. > > > On 26/11/2011, at 3:12 PM, Sarah Alawami wrote: > >> Iv'e heard good things regarding that company. and when the iphone 5 comes out I plan on upgradeing to that and getting one of there ipod docs on black friday. I'm picky about the sound and yeah. >> >> Take care. >> On Nov 25, 2011, at 5:55 PM, Dane Trethowan wrote: >> >>> Hi folks! >>> >>> Just ordered an Altec Lansing portable iPod dock, there's a company here that have a special price going for them at the moment. >>> >>> My payment has been processed and order approved so I should have the beast within 7-10 days, will let you know what I find though judging on the past couple of Altec Lansing products I've reviewed here on list I doubt I'll be disappointed. >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Dane Trethowan >>> From Melton Victoria Australia >>> skype callto:grtdane12 >>> MSN: grtdane at dane-trethowan.net >>> >>> >>> ======================================= >>> >>> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free >>> >>> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at >>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat >>> >>> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: >>> >>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html >>> >>> Or: >>> >>> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: >>> >>> >>> --------------------------------------- >> >> >> ======================================= >> >> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free >> >> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat >> >> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: >> >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html >> >> Or: >> >> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: >> >> >> --------------------------------------- > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- From lynne at mac-access.net Sun Nov 27 00:55:46 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 00:55:46 +0000 Subject: Windows XP Message-ID: <81756834-B14E-4719-A52C-9C03287EE92B@mac-access.net> Hello everybody Does anybody happen to know whether and, if so, where one could safely buy Windows XP 64-bit online? I'm not remotely interested in hacked, pirated, stolen or otherwise unofficial copies; so please exclude those from your responses. But I'd be very interested to know more if there is an official site. We have the 32-bit version but not the X86 64-bit. I am also looking for a downloadable Windows Vista upgrade CD image if anybody could help me out there. In this instance it isn't the actual serial number I'm after, just the downloaded image. We already have a serial number legally purchased. But that stupid so-called security encryption which Microsoft tried in Vista and, I gather, hastily removed from 7, destroyed some of our files. Any assistance gratefully received. Lynne From grtdane at internode.on.net Sun Nov 27 02:58:06 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 13:58:06 +1100 Subject: The Window-Eyes and Thunderbird comedy rolls on Message-ID: Hi folks! So Window-Eyes 7.5.2 was released a few days ago and one of the many things mentioned about the new release was long awaited fixes to allow the software to be used with the Thunderbird email client, yep you heard right. When I first started using the new version of WE with Thunderbird I thought some progress had ben made but as I continued to work it seemed to me that if anything Window-Eyes had gone backwards, I won't go into all the details of additional problems I discovered on list but I will say it was a great relief to have NVDA on hand, the old tried and true Screen Reader that some folks hold up for ridicule because its free still does the job of accessibility with Thunderbird near to flawlessly. So what have other people been saying about Window-Eyes and Thunderbird? Much the same as I have. Someone - too their credit - has written a "TB Enhanced" app for WE which is supposed to improve accessibility to Thunderbird with Window-Eyes but really, what on earth is going on here. Thunderbird has accessibility built-in and I know for a fact that the developers of Thunderbird have been bending over backwards to ensure that the software is accessible. Every other Windows Screen Reading package I know of except Window-Eyes works with Thunderbird because Thunderbird doesn't use any special means of displaying text, very strange. From gordon at mac-access.net Sun Nov 27 08:31:17 2011 From: gordon at mac-access.net (Gordon Smith) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 08:31:17 +0000 Subject: The Window-Eyes and Thunderbird comedy rolls on In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I need to install this on our netBook I think, and try it with Infovox 3 and NVDA. I'm wondering actually whether there is a way to install the new release of NVDA on to our thumb drive. I don't mean actually install it, I mean just put it into the relevant places that it runs on demand, as the current version does. But I can't deny that it would be nice to have some kind of mobile interface on there as a backup for when I'm absent without leave. :) Gordon From roger.firman at btinternet.com Sun Nov 27 11:02:36 2011 From: roger.firman at btinternet.com (Roger Firman) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 11:02:36 -0000 Subject: Windows XP 64 bit version In-Reply-To: <81756834-B14E-4719-A52C-9C03287EE92B@mac-access.net> Message-ID: Dear Lynne, I wondered if Amazon might have the software or if not themselves, one of their appointed dealers? Regards, Roger. From d.griffith at btinternet.com Sun Nov 27 11:21:00 2011 From: d.griffith at btinternet.com (David Griffith) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 11:21:00 -0000 Subject: The Window-Eyes and Thunderbird comedy rolls on In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <222415.7657.qm@smtp818.mail.ird.yahoo.com> I imagine it is just a case of replacing the existing NVDA files with the latest portable versions. What I would try would be to copy first the new version and run this separately first of all to see if it can see the with Infovox 3 voices you need. Presumably there are some with Infovox 3 TTS drivers which may need to be copied into the NVDA folder. There was an announcement recently that NVDA were trying to license eloquence and provide this with a portable version of NVDA for about ?30. I submitted an approval to say that I would definitely buy this as I remain an Eloquence fan. It remains the clearest and fastest possible reading speed for me. All personal preference and all that. Best of luck. David Griffith -----Original Message----- From: techno-chat-bounces at techno-chat.net [mailto:techno-chat-bounces at techno-chat.net] On Behalf Of Gordon Smith Sent: 27 November 2011 08:31 To: Techno-Chat ... Technology Enthusiasm! Subject: Re: The Window-Eyes and Thunderbird comedy rolls on I need to install this on our netBook I think, and try it with Infovox 3 and NVDA. I'm wondering actually whether there is a way to install the new release of NVDA on to our thumb drive. I don't mean actually install it, I mean just put it into the relevant places that it runs on demand, as the current version does. But I can't deny that it would be nice to have some kind of mobile interface on there as a backup for when I'm absent without leave. :) Gordon ======================================= The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html Or: you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: --------------------------------------- __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 6552 (20111018) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 6552 (20111018) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com From lynne at mac-access.net Sun Nov 27 13:55:57 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 13:55:57 +0000 Subject: Windows XP 64 bit version In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Roger Yes; that was my first port of call. I did a search for "Windows XP" X686-64", and a lot of variants thereof to no effect. Thank you for the suggestion. Lynne On 27 Nov 2011, at 11:02, Roger Firman wrote: I wondered if Amazon might have the software or if not themselves, one of their appointed dealers? From grtdane at internode.on.net Sun Nov 27 18:12:46 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 05:12:46 +1100 Subject: I want to listen to KNX in Los Angelees Message-ID: <066BDB2B-4EE0-43BB-8025-4967EFEE1159@internode.on.net> Hi Folks! Subject line says it all, does anyone have any idea of how I'd go about doing this? I'm in Australia and the KNX stream along with the other CBS streams from the U.S. have been blocked. I'm sure someone wrote to the list on this topic some time ago. From tsiegel at softcon.com Sun Nov 27 19:38:06 2011 From: tsiegel at softcon.com (Travis Siegel) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 14:38:06 -0500 Subject: I want to listen to KNX in Los Angelees In-Reply-To: <066BDB2B-4EE0-43BB-8025-4967EFEE1159@internode.on.net> References: <066BDB2B-4EE0-43BB-8025-4967EFEE1159@internode.on.net> Message-ID: <31403335-AA41-49BF-BD69-ECCFEE2F8525@softcon.com> Have you tried a google search for knx and listen? It will almost always turn up a web site/feed where you can listen online. From grtdane at internode.on.net Sun Nov 27 19:51:08 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 06:51:08 +1100 Subject: I want to listen to KNX in Los Angelees In-Reply-To: <31403335-AA41-49BF-BD69-ECCFEE2F8525@softcon.com> References: <066BDB2B-4EE0-43BB-8025-4967EFEE1159@internode.on.net> <31403335-AA41-49BF-BD69-ECCFEE2F8525@softcon.com> Message-ID: <436AE1EE-DD4F-43EF-BE6B-17E43D3E43E9@internode.on.net> Exactly! but the stream is only available for residents of the U.S. On 28/11/2011, at 6:38 AM, Travis Siegel wrote: > Have you tried a google search for knx and listen? It will almost always turn up a web site/feed where you can listen online. > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- From tsiegel at softcon.com Mon Nov 28 00:35:25 2011 From: tsiegel at softcon.com (Travis Siegel) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 19:35:25 -0500 Subject: I want to listen to KNX in Los Angelees In-Reply-To: <31403335-AA41-49BF-BD69-ECCFEE2F8525@softcon.com> References: <066BDB2B-4EE0-43BB-8025-4967EFEE1159@internode.on.net> <31403335-AA41-49BF-BD69-ECCFEE2F8525@softcon.com> Message-ID: <1885EAAB-B055-4130-9A76-74CAF82B496D@softcon.com> The url is: http://player.radio.com/player/RadioPlayer.php? version=1.2.12495&station=95 A pain to find, (at least in the source, but there it is, give that a try. From tsiegel at softcon.com Mon Nov 28 00:36:47 2011 From: tsiegel at softcon.com (Travis Siegel) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 19:36:47 -0500 Subject: I want to listen to KNX in Los Angelees In-Reply-To: <436AE1EE-DD4F-43EF-BE6B-17E43D3E43E9@internode.on.net> References: <066BDB2B-4EE0-43BB-8025-4967EFEE1159@internode.on.net> <31403335-AA41-49BF-BD69-ECCFEE2F8525@softcon.com> <436AE1EE-DD4F-43EF-BE6B-17E43D3E43E9@internode.on.net> Message-ID: And, if it truly claims the feed is only for the us, there's ways around that too, a simple script to forward the page, and feed back the url would solve that problem nicely, though I doubt it's necessary in this case. From tsiegel at softcon.com Mon Nov 28 00:52:42 2011 From: tsiegel at softcon.com (Travis Siegel) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 19:52:42 -0500 Subject: Windows XP In-Reply-To: <81756834-B14E-4719-A52C-9C03287EE92B@mac-access.net> References: <81756834-B14E-4719-A52C-9C03287EE92B@mac-access.net> Message-ID: <6FEC6503-6554-4CEE-9C76-FCD6999DD91C@softcon.com> The 64-bit version of xp doesn't work with most programs, and een fewer screen readers. I had it installed here for a little while, and it was truly inaccessible, not a single screen reader I tried at the time would work on it, though perhaps now, nvda might do the job, and/or windows eyes might do the trick (I heard it would, but couldn't get it to work with my demo version) So, I have a nice copy of xp pro-64 sitting in my cd case I can't do anything with. From grtdane at internode.on.net Mon Nov 28 00:53:55 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane trethowan) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 11:53:55 +1100 Subject: I want to listen to KNX in Los Angelees In-Reply-To: <1885EAAB-B055-4130-9A76-74CAF82B496D@softcon.com> References: <066BDB2B-4EE0-43BB-8025-4967EFEE1159@internode.on.net> <31403335-AA41-49BF-BD69-ECCFEE2F8525@softcon.com> <1885EAAB-B055-4130-9A76-74CAF82B496D@softcon.com> Message-ID: <4ED2DBA3.8030209@internode.on.net> You're still missing my point, all CBS streams are banned for those living outside the U.S. so in other words I need a VPN or something to mask my IP address. On 28/11/2011 11:35 AM, Travis Siegel wrote: > The url is: > http://player.radio.com/player/RadioPlayer.php?version=1.2.12495&station=95 > > > A pain to find, (at least in the source, but there it is, give that a > try. > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, > virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's > dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat > group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- -- sent from my HP Powerhouse Notebook. From grtdane at internode.on.net Mon Nov 28 09:36:26 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 20:36:26 +1100 Subject: Listening to KNX outside the U.S. Message-ID: <3E0B27A4-A506-40ED-ACB4-0BFB7FE39C24@internode.on.net> Hi folks! I've been doing some further research on this, since CBS have blocked all their radio streams for those outside the U.S. it looks as though I'm going to have to use a VPN in order to listen. With some help from my friend Google and some people who just happened to be following me on Twitter I came up with 2 possibilities though the first 1 at seems to be ruled out because of the price they charge. The more attractive packages can be found at where you can purchase a years unlimited VPN for around $70.00. Tech support is good according to Twitter though the big question is going to be how accessible their Mac client may be, certainly their Windows client is accessible . As for connecting such things as an iPhone and an iPad? Well I'm not sure yet but I'm sure there will be a way. From chris.hallsworth at techno-chat.net Mon Nov 28 17:13:12 2011 From: chris.hallsworth at techno-chat.net (chris hallsworth) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 17:13:12 +0000 Subject: I want to listen to KNX in Los Angelees In-Reply-To: <066BDB2B-4EE0-43BB-8025-4967EFEE1159@internode.on.net> References: <066BDB2B-4EE0-43BB-8025-4967EFEE1159@internode.on.net> Message-ID: <4ED3C128.6030809@techno-chat.net> Try Hotspot Shield. Google for it please as I am not sure of the URL and do not wish to give a possibly incorrect one. It is a VPN sort of application that supposedly protects your privacy and allows access to sites that are otherwise not available in your country. On 27/11/2011 18:12, Dane Trethowan wrote: > Hi Folks! > > Subject line says it all, does anyone have any idea of how I'd go about doing this? I'm in Australia and the KNX stream along with the other CBS streams from the U.S. have been blocked. > > I'm sure someone wrote to the list on this topic some time ago. > > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- > From grtdane at internode.on.net Tue Nov 29 09:36:55 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 20:36:55 +1100 Subject: I want to listen to KNX in Los Angelees In-Reply-To: <4ED3C128.6030809@techno-chat.net> References: <066BDB2B-4EE0-43BB-8025-4967EFEE1159@internode.on.net> <4ED3C128.6030809@techno-chat.net> Message-ID: <4ED4A7B7.1030601@internode.on.net> Certainly not Hotspot Shield is loaded with advertising and other stuff I don't want, what do you expect given its free software or sh-tware might be a better name to give that sort of thing. On 29/11/2011 4:13 AM, chris hallsworth wrote: > Try Hotspot Shield. Google for it please as I am not sure of the URL > and do not wish to give a possibly incorrect one. It is a VPN sort of > application that supposedly protects your privacy and allows access to > sites that are otherwise not available in your country. > > On 27/11/2011 18:12, Dane Trethowan wrote: >> Hi Folks! >> >> Subject line says it all, does anyone have any idea of how I'd go >> about doing this? I'm in Australia and the KNX stream along with the >> other CBS streams from the U.S. have been blocked. >> >> I'm sure someone wrote to the list on this topic some time ago. >> >> >> >> ======================================= >> >> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, >> virus and worm-free >> >> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's >> dedicated web pages located at >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat >> >> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat >> group at either of the following websites: >> >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html >> >> Or: >> >> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: >> >> >> --------------------------------------- >> > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, > virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's > dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat > group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- -- Dane Trethowan From Melton Victoria Australia skype callto:grtdane12 MSN: grtdane at dane-trethowan.net From lynne at mac-access.net Tue Nov 29 21:16:55 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 21:16:55 +0000 Subject: I want to listen to KNX in Los Angelees In-Reply-To: <1885EAAB-B055-4130-9A76-74CAF82B496D@softcon.com> References: <066BDB2B-4EE0-43BB-8025-4967EFEE1159@internode.on.net> <31403335-AA41-49BF-BD69-ECCFEE2F8525@softcon.com> <1885EAAB-B055-4130-9A76-74CAF82B496D@softcon.com> Message-ID: <3DC588BD-5CC2-4A82-812F-26C63E70971D@mac-access.net> That works fine from the UK. So I don't see the problem. :) Lynne On 28 Nov 2011, at 00:35, Travis Siegel wrote: The url is: http://player.radio.com/player/RadioPlayer.php?version=1.2.12495&station=95 From lynne at mac-access.net Tue Nov 29 21:23:43 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 21:23:43 +0000 Subject: Listening to KNX outside the U.S. In-Reply-To: <3E0B27A4-A506-40ED-ACB4-0BFB7FE39C24@internode.on.net> References: <3E0B27A4-A506-40ED-ACB4-0BFB7FE39C24@internode.on.net> Message-ID: <576BB9C5-BE1C-4BD5-A555-C5FD73C801E8@mac-access.net> Dane The URL that Travis gave earlier works fine for me; therefore, it should for you. But I would advocate that if an organisation has deliberately opted not to allow their output to be available to certain groups or places, then there must be a reason for the ban, most often I would think, copyright. In the case of the BBC, I am very strongly in favour of this ban to be honest because we have to pay a license fee; why should others be able to get in through the back door so to speak? Lynne On 28 Nov 2011, at 09:36, Dane Trethowan wrote: Hi folks! I've been doing some further research on this, since CBS have blocked all their radio streams for those outside the U.S. it looks as though I'm going to have to use a VPN in order to listen. From martin at x.it.okstate.edu Wed Nov 30 14:21:30 2011 From: martin at x.it.okstate.edu (Martin McCormick) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 08:21:30 -0600 Subject: Listening to KNX outside the U.S. Message-ID: <201111301421.pAUELUWW058006@x.it.okstate.edu> "Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith" writes: > In the case of the BBC, I am very strongly in favour of this ban to be > honest because we have to pay a license fee; why should others be able to > get in through the back door so to speak? I am a believer of the statement that information wants to be free. Most countries have put their best faces forward over short wave radio for almost 90 years at great expense to their tax-paying citizens. In the overall scheme of things, the expense is miniscule compared with defense, health care in those countries smart enough to realize that this is the best way to do things, but it is still a large sum of money for staff and transmitting facilities to just fling a signal in to the air in hopes somebody over seas finds it interesting and useful. The ability to listen to another country's broadcasts is a tremendous educational resource and here is something else. OSU, where I work, has had an international outreach program since 1951 in which we encouraged students from abroad, many from countries we don't necessarily get along with, to obtain a student visa and study here. A number of them say that they used to listen to the Voice of America, BBC Radio Netherlands and many other Western countries and were curious about democracy which is why they came here. The same holds true for the UK, Germany, Australia and others. If you live in the US, you can certainly listen to the Voice of America (VOA) on short wave, but American citizens do not get VOA on their local radios or televisions because the charter of the VOA which is run by the US Information Agency specifically forbids American citizens from taking any part in VOA contests or other activities. This was done many decades ago to prevent "the government" from broadcasting to the American people. In other words, our tax Dollars go to fund something we can't even use which I am sure makes lots of people here angry, but it is a very cheap form of defense. For every terrorist out there foaming at the mouth and piecing his bomb together, there are probably a hundred people listening to and now watching VOA or BBC programs and saying to themselves or even others, "Hey! This is pretty nice. Why isn't our country more like that instead of like it is?" It's education and outreach. Sure, we can slap locks on everything and put a coin slot on everything else, but what kind of world does this build? Canada has a duel broadcasting system much like the UK in which there is the CBC (Exactly along the same lines as BBC (except for a letter)) and privately-owned broadcast stations with all the screaming ads. There is no television or radio license fee in Canada. The government gets the money from general taxes. I don't resent people out in the world listening to VOA for free, because I listen to the BBC and many others for free. It all kind of comes out in the wash. There are a lot of things our government does with my money that really stick in my craw, but broadcasting to the world and showing us, warts and all, is a cheap way to forestall hatred and misunderstanding. From grtdane at internode.on.net Wed Nov 30 16:01:53 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Thu, 01 Dec 2011 03:01:53 +1100 Subject: Radio systems who listens and who pays? In-Reply-To: <201111301421.pAUELUWW058006@x.it.okstate.edu> References: <201111301421.pAUELUWW058006@x.it.okstate.edu> Message-ID: <4ED65371.4020907@internode.on.net> Found myself nodding my head as I read the below post. In Australia all our radio and TV services are available to the masses without restrictions. The tax payer in Australia pays for our national - and at the moment International - broadcaster the Australian Broadcasting Corporation. Some calculations were done some time ago which worked out that each and every Australian paid 10 cents per day to keep the ABC going and even though I'm not a huge fan of the ABC I think I certainly get my money's worth given that I only pay 10 cents a day. As the below poster mentions, services such as Radio Australia has made a huge difference to people in developing countries and if Radio Australia can educate and inform then I don't mind so much. Of course! the ABC at times does run its own agenda these days but let's leave that out of the discussion for the time being . So my view is simple, whether or not I like the ABC I value my 10 cents per day not only for what it gives me but for what others can be given to listen to or to watch as well, unrestricted. On 1/12/2011 1:21 AM, Martin McCormick wrote: > "Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith" writes: >> In the case of the BBC, I am very strongly in favour of this ban to be >> honest because we have to pay a license fee; why should others be able to >> get in through the back door so to speak? > I am a believer of the statement that information wants > to be free. Most countries have put their best faces forward > over short wave radio for almost 90 years at great expense to > their tax-paying citizens. In the overall scheme of things, the > expense is miniscule compared with defense, health care in those > countries smart enough to realize that this is the best way to > do things, but it is still a large sum of money for staff > and transmitting facilities to just fling a signal in to the air > in hopes somebody over seas finds it interesting and useful. > > The ability to listen to another country's broadcasts is > a tremendous educational resource and here is something else. > > OSU, where I work, has had an international outreach > program since 1951 in which we encouraged students from abroad, > many from countries we don't necessarily get along with, to > obtain a student visa and study here. A number of them say that > they used to listen to the Voice of America, BBC Radio > Netherlands and many other Western countries and were curious > about democracy which is why they came here. > > The same holds true for the UK, Germany, Australia and > others. > > If you live in the US, you can certainly listen to the > Voice of America (VOA) on short wave, but American citizens do > not get VOA on their local radios or televisions because the > charter of the VOA which is run by the US Information Agency > specifically forbids American citizens from taking any part in > VOA contests or other activities. This was done many decades ago > to prevent "the government" from broadcasting to the American > people. In other words, our tax Dollars go to fund something we > can't even use which I am sure makes lots of people here angry, > but it is a very cheap form of defense. > > For every terrorist out there foaming at the mouth and > piecing his bomb together, there are probably a hundred people > listening to and now watching VOA or BBC programs and saying to > themselves or even others, "Hey! This is pretty nice. Why isn't > our country more like that instead of like it is?" It's > education and outreach. > > Sure, we can slap locks on everything and put a coin > slot on everything else, but what kind of world does this build? > > Canada has a duel broadcasting system much like the UK > in which there is the CBC (Exactly along the same lines as BBC > (except for a letter)) and privately-owned broadcast stations > with all the screaming ads. There is no television or radio > license fee in Canada. The government gets the money from > general taxes. > > I don't resent people out in the world listening to VOA > for free, because I listen to the BBC and many others for free. > It all kind of comes out in the wash. > > There are a lot of things our government does with my > money that really stick in my craw, but broadcasting to the > world and showing us, warts and all, is a cheap way to forestall > hatred and misunderstanding. > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- -- Dane Trethowan From Melton Victoria Australia skype callto:grtdane12 MSN: grtdane at dane-trethowan.net From lynne at mac-access.net Wed Nov 30 16:11:34 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 16:11:34 +0000 Subject: Listening to KNX outside the U.S. In-Reply-To: <201111301421.pAUELUWW058006@x.it.okstate.edu> References: <201111301421.pAUELUWW058006@x.it.okstate.edu> Message-ID: Hello Martin and all Don't get me wrong here; this isn't a personal issue regarding anybody and I can understand people taking the loopholes that are there. I also don't object to sharing our information content. What I object too martin, and possibly your comments below are based on a lack of information, is that those wishing to view content for which we, the residents of that country, have to pay, shouldn't be able to get in via the back door. If they can, then that's not their fault and I' not criticising them personally. I might do the same thing. So please don't anybody think I'm having a go at anybody personally here. As I said, I think, Martin, that you may not be aware of the fact that we have to pay a license fee to watch this sort of stuff. That license is rigorously enforced and breaking the rules leads to a 1 thousand Pound fine, plus a 28 day prison sentence and a conviction as a criminal if caught. The IF signals of the TV or video equipment are used by detector vans with specialist equipment which go around at all hours of the day and night. They check every street at random times and the vehicles are unmarked; so you can't tell when they are there. That fact, the fact that we have to pay for something which others are trying to get for free, is the only reason why I am in favour of the ban. Some of the other TV channels in the UK have other reasons for banning access to their content. And the primary of those is copyright. They take out viewing rights agreements with the owners of the content, and the production companies who sell it on to the TV stations. Those agreements contain copyright clauses which prohibit the TV channels from making their content freely available. That, and that only, is the reason why they prohibit access to overseas individuals. I've done some checking and actually, the network providers of VPN and other access points are themselves liable for prosecution it seems if their clients use their facilities to access copyright material. I don't know what the situation is regarding the person themselves; but my information is that the provider of the services usually makes it quite clear to people who subscribe that their agreement is that they don't use the service for any illegal activities. Therefore, if the provider is made aware of such abuse by the broadcaster or copyright holder, they apparently take a very dim view of it and take the appropriate measures. This is only what I'm being told; I am no expert. So again, I would say Martin that you're comments are somewhat idealistic in nature. Yes, nice work if you can get it and, if somebody gets away with doing it, then fine, I have no problem with that whatsoever. It's not my place to enforce the law, nor would I ever dream of trying to tell others what they should and shouldn't do. I'm just expressing my personal views that I don't see why others should have access free of charge to something for which I have to pay almost ?200 a year, GBP, to use or access. Lynne On 30 Nov 2011, at 14:21, Martin McCormick wrote: ?I am a believer of the statement that information wants to be free. Most countries have put their best faces forward over short wave radio for almost 90 years at great expense to their tax-paying citizens. In the overall scheme of things, the expense is miniscule compared with defense, health care in those countries smart enough to realize that this is the best way to do things, but it is still a large sum of money for staff and transmitting facilities to just fling a signal in to the air in hopes somebody over seas finds it interesting and useful. From lynne at mac-access.net Wed Nov 30 16:12:48 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 16:12:48 +0000 Subject: Radio systems who listens and who pays? In-Reply-To: <4ED65371.4020907@internode.on.net> References: <201111301421.pAUELUWW058006@x.it.okstate.edu> <4ED65371.4020907@internode.on.net> Message-ID: <61DC888D-EB55-416E-91D9-CC3C055F7FEF@mac-access.net> Hello Dane Just to be clear on this; I'm referring to TV content, not radio. Lynne On 30 Nov 2011, at 16:01, Dane Trethowan wrote: Found myself nodding my head as I read the below post. In Australia all our radio and TV services are available to the masses without restrictions. The tax payer in Australia pays for our national - and at the moment International - broadcaster the Australian Broadcasting Corporation. Some calculations were done some time ago which worked out that each and every Australian paid 10 cents per day to keep the ABC going and even though I'm not a huge fan of the ABC I think I certainly get my money's worth given that I only pay 10 cents a day. As the below poster mentions, services such as Radio Australia has made a huge difference to people in developing countries and if Radio Australia can educate and inform then I don't mind so much. Of course! the ABC at times does run its own agenda these days but let's leave that out of the discussion for the time being . So my view is simple, whether or not I like the ABC I value my 10 cents per day not only for what it gives me but for what others can be given to listen to or to watch as well, unrestricted. On 1/12/2011 1:21 AM, Martin McCormick wrote: > "Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith" writes: >> In the case of the BBC, I am very strongly in favour of this ban to be >> honest because we have to pay a license fee; why should others be able to >> get in through the back door so to speak? > I am a believer of the statement that information wants > to be free. Most countries have put their best faces forward > over short wave radio for almost 90 years at great expense to > their tax-paying citizens. In the overall scheme of things, the > expense is miniscule compared with defense, health care in those > countries smart enough to realize that this is the best way to > do things, but it is still a large sum of money for staff > and transmitting facilities to just fling a signal in to the air > in hopes somebody over seas finds it interesting and useful. > > The ability to listen to another country's broadcasts is > a tremendous educational resource and here is something else. > > OSU, where I work, has had an international outreach > program since 1951 in which we encouraged students from abroad, > many from countries we don't necessarily get along with, to > obtain a student visa and study here. A number of them say that > they used to listen to the Voice of America, BBC Radio > Netherlands and many other Western countries and were curious > about democracy which is why they came here. > > The same holds true for the UK, Germany, Australia and > others. > > If you live in the US, you can certainly listen to the > Voice of America (VOA) on short wave, but American citizens do > not get VOA on their local radios or televisions because the > charter of the VOA which is run by the US Information Agency > specifically forbids American citizens from taking any part in > VOA contests or other activities. This was done many decades ago > to prevent "the government" from broadcasting to the American > people. In other words, our tax Dollars go to fund something we > can't even use which I am sure makes lots of people here angry, > but it is a very cheap form of defense. > > For every terrorist out there foaming at the mouth and > piecing his bomb together, there are probably a hundred people > listening to and now watching VOA or BBC programs and saying to > themselves or even others, "Hey! This is pretty nice. Why isn't > our country more like that instead of like it is?" It's > education and outreach. > > Sure, we can slap locks on everything and put a coin > slot on everything else, but what kind of world does this build? > > Canada has a duel broadcasting system much like the UK > in which there is the CBC (Exactly along the same lines as BBC > (except for a letter)) and privately-owned broadcast stations > with all the screaming ads. There is no television or radio > license fee in Canada. The government gets the money from > general taxes. > > I don't resent people out in the world listening to VOA > for free, because I listen to the BBC and many others for free. > It all kind of comes out in the wash. > > There are a lot of things our government does with my > money that really stick in my craw, but broadcasting to the > world and showing us, warts and all, is a cheap way to forestall > hatred and misunderstanding. > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- -- Dane Trethowan From Melton Victoria Australia skype callto:grtdane12 MSN: grtdane at dane-trethowan.net ======================================= The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html Or: you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: --------------------------------------- From grtdane at internode.on.net Wed Nov 30 16:13:47 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2011 03:13:47 +1100 Subject: Radio systems who listens and who pays? In-Reply-To: <61DC888D-EB55-416E-91D9-CC3C055F7FEF@mac-access.net> References: <201111301421.pAUELUWW058006@x.it.okstate.edu> <4ED65371.4020907@internode.on.net> <61DC888D-EB55-416E-91D9-CC3C055F7FEF@mac-access.net> Message-ID: <489173AE-A681-47C0-A9CC-CF8453526E90@internode.on.net> And to be clear on this? I'm referring to both . On 01/12/2011, at 3:12 AM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: > Hello Dane > > Just to be clear on this; I'm referring to TV content, not radio. > > Lynne > > > On 30 Nov 2011, at 16:01, Dane Trethowan wrote: > > Found myself nodding my head as I read the below post. > > In Australia all our radio and TV services are available to the masses without restrictions. > > The tax payer in Australia pays for our national - and at the moment International - broadcaster the Australian Broadcasting Corporation. > > Some calculations were done some time ago which worked out that each and every Australian paid 10 cents per day to keep the ABC going and even though I'm not a huge fan of the ABC I think I certainly get my money's worth given that I only pay 10 cents a day. > > As the below poster mentions, services such as Radio Australia has made a huge difference to people in developing countries and if Radio Australia can educate and inform then I don't mind so much. Of course! the ABC at times does run its own agenda these days but let's leave that out of the discussion for the time being . > > So my view is simple, whether or not I like the ABC I value my 10 cents per day not only for what it gives me but for what others can be given to listen to or to watch as well, unrestricted. > > > > On 1/12/2011 1:21 AM, Martin McCormick wrote: >> "Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith" writes: >>> In the case of the BBC, I am very strongly in favour of this ban to be >>> honest because we have to pay a license fee; why should others be able to >>> get in through the back door so to speak? >> I am a believer of the statement that information wants >> to be free. Most countries have put their best faces forward >> over short wave radio for almost 90 years at great expense to >> their tax-paying citizens. In the overall scheme of things, the >> expense is miniscule compared with defense, health care in those >> countries smart enough to realize that this is the best way to >> do things, but it is still a large sum of money for staff >> and transmitting facilities to just fling a signal in to the air >> in hopes somebody over seas finds it interesting and useful. >> >> The ability to listen to another country's broadcasts is >> a tremendous educational resource and here is something else. >> >> OSU, where I work, has had an international outreach >> program since 1951 in which we encouraged students from abroad, >> many from countries we don't necessarily get along with, to >> obtain a student visa and study here. A number of them say that >> they used to listen to the Voice of America, BBC Radio >> Netherlands and many other Western countries and were curious >> about democracy which is why they came here. >> >> The same holds true for the UK, Germany, Australia and >> others. >> >> If you live in the US, you can certainly listen to the >> Voice of America (VOA) on short wave, but American citizens do >> not get VOA on their local radios or televisions because the >> charter of the VOA which is run by the US Information Agency >> specifically forbids American citizens from taking any part in >> VOA contests or other activities. This was done many decades ago >> to prevent "the government" from broadcasting to the American >> people. In other words, our tax Dollars go to fund something we >> can't even use which I am sure makes lots of people here angry, >> but it is a very cheap form of defense. >> >> For every terrorist out there foaming at the mouth and >> piecing his bomb together, there are probably a hundred people >> listening to and now watching VOA or BBC programs and saying to >> themselves or even others, "Hey! This is pretty nice. Why isn't >> our country more like that instead of like it is?" It's >> education and outreach. >> >> Sure, we can slap locks on everything and put a coin >> slot on everything else, but what kind of world does this build? >> >> Canada has a duel broadcasting system much like the UK >> in which there is the CBC (Exactly along the same lines as BBC >> (except for a letter)) and privately-owned broadcast stations >> with all the screaming ads. There is no television or radio >> license fee in Canada. The government gets the money from >> general taxes. >> >> I don't resent people out in the world listening to VOA >> for free, because I listen to the BBC and many others for free. >> It all kind of comes out in the wash. >> >> There are a lot of things our government does with my >> money that really stick in my craw, but broadcasting to the >> world and showing us, warts and all, is a cheap way to forestall >> hatred and misunderstanding. >> >> ======================================= >> >> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free >> >> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat >> >> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: >> >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html >> >> Or: >> >> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: >> >> >> --------------------------------------- > > -- > Dane Trethowan > From Melton Victoria Australia > skype callto:grtdane12 > MSN: grtdane at dane-trethowan.net > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- From grtdane at internode.on.net Wed Nov 30 18:15:51 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2011 05:15:51 +1100 Subject: ABC Radio/TV in Australia Message-ID: Hi! For those on list who wish to see what our ABC has to offer radio and TV listeners then point your browser to ABC TV here has a "TV Catchup" service called iView and you can get to it by pointing your browser to From here you can watch the last 7 days of programming from ABC TV plus some older more popular shows but bare in mind that accessibility could be a problem as the site uses Flash. From lynne at mac-access.net Wed Nov 30 18:27:04 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 18:27:04 +0000 Subject: Radio systems who listens and who pays? In-Reply-To: <489173AE-A681-47C0-A9CC-CF8453526E90@internode.on.net> References: <201111301421.pAUELUWW058006@x.it.okstate.edu> <4ED65371.4020907@internode.on.net> <61DC888D-EB55-416E-91D9-CC3C055F7FEF@mac-access.net> <489173AE-A681-47C0-A9CC-CF8453526E90@internode.on.net> Message-ID: Hello Dane Again; this is nothing personal. But I do not believe that those who don't pay their license fee, in our case, should have the right to content for which we here at home have to pay. That doesn't include radio, only TV. But it is not anything personal. Lynne On 30 Nov 2011, at 16:13, Dane Trethowan wrote: And to be clear on this? I'm referring to both . From grtdane at internode.on.net Wed Nov 30 19:59:15 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2011 06:59:15 +1100 Subject: Radio systems who listens and who pays? In-Reply-To: References: <201111301421.pAUELUWW058006@x.it.okstate.edu> <4ED65371.4020907@internode.on.net> <61DC888D-EB55-416E-91D9-CC3C055F7FEF@mac-access.net> <489173AE-A681-47C0-A9CC-CF8453526E90@internode.on.net> Message-ID: <9C64ED87-C2E3-4660-8704-B86668070AA6@internode.on.net> Some people can just have a snobbish attitude I'm afraid and that's completely up to them. I can sort of see where you're coming from and you pay far more than we do for our ABC given what you've told me privately, I've just done some basic calculations on the fact that our ABC costs us 10 cents a day or thereabouts. That works out to around about $04.00 per month, times that by 12 and you get $48.00 per year or perhaps to even make it easier still let's round it up to $50.00, that's less than what one would pay for a magazine subscription. So To convert this to Pounds? Well we come down to around about ?30.00 and again this to me sounds perfectly reasonable. Not only is it a perfectly reasonable sum of money but it could be argued that we are "Giving" to help others in a way with our Internet and International services. On 01/12/2011, at 5:27 AM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: > Hello Dane > > Again; this is nothing personal. But I do not believe that those who don't pay their license fee, in our case, should have the right to content for which we here at home have to pay. That doesn't include radio, only TV. But it is not anything personal. > > Lynne > > On 30 Nov 2011, at 16:13, Dane Trethowan wrote: > > And to be clear on this? I'm referring to both . > > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- From grtdane at internode.on.net Wed Nov 30 20:07:15 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2011 07:07:15 +1100 Subject: Recordings Going Far Beyond What MP3 Or AAC can offer Message-ID: Indeed so friends and they're yours for the buying. Here's one of the few sites that offer such things You'll see that a wide variety of file formats are offered, for those who have no alternative but to use MP3 then you can purchase files encoded at 320K which is the highest bit rate available but its probably a huge waste of space if you're able to play FLAC files which aren' much bigger than MP3 320K encoded files and are lossless. So you want to go one step further than a lossless 44.1KHZ 16-bit FLAC? What about a studio master encoded at 96KHZ 24-bit FLAC, you'll need some pretty good equipment to play these on. Got a Bluray player or a computer which wil handle Bluray? Why not look for software on the web to convert these "Studio Master" files so they can be put onto an SACD or Audio DVD or Bluray disc itself. Prices are very reasonable, top being $23.00 for the "Studio Master" lossless CD titles, you can actually purchase the physical discs if you'd prefer. From david.mclean at cox.net Wed Nov 30 20:40:20 2011 From: david.mclean at cox.net (David McLean) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 15:40:20 -0500 Subject: Recordings Going Far Beyond What MP3 Or AAC can offer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2CDAA0AF-BFF7-471D-B7E8-493109EDD56A@cox.net> Are you sure about that url? I get a not found error on it. On Nov 30, 2011, at 3:07 PM, Dane Trethowan wrote: > http://www.melberrecordings.com.au>