From venables134 at btinternet.com  Sat Oct  1 10:37:31 2011
From: venables134 at btinternet.com (Daniel McGee)
Date: Sat, 1 Oct 2011 10:37:31 +0100
Subject: JAWS 13: Convenient OCR
In-Reply-To: <9BA3E9FB-980E-4F6B-83BE-D8105AD1EE66@internode.on.net>
References: <20110930154731.udd9retts0wcgcoc@webmail.iu.edu><CBBA446A-D73F-4F8A-86BD-73CDC7CE7F75@cox.net>
	<9BA3E9FB-980E-4F6B-83BE-D8105AD1EE66@internode.on.net>
Message-ID: <804BD3EE7C3C4ACEA852BAA06458A37E@DanielPC>

Well for me, my view for what its worth I didn't really care much for the 
O.C.R with Jaws. Like Eric said at present it might not solve captures. That 
doesn't mean it won't in the future. I admit I do use jaws and have my own 
copy of Jaws 12 but at present I haven't found any reason why I need to 
upgrade to 13 when I can use NVDA for free.
Just to make sure before people get the wrong inpression I am not saying 
that I wouldn't pay the money for Jaws upgrades its just at this moment in 
tim well lets say I'm not hooked on a particular feature there by parting my 
cash thinking "oh yeah! I really like this new thing in jaws I'm going to 
get it!" Also as a final note I like jaws mainly for eloquence but in my 
case I have a hearing impairment which is why I use it when I get a little 
tired of NVDA's Espeak.

Thanks for reading

Daniel e

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Dane Trethowan" <grtdane at internode.on.net>
Sent: Friday, September 30, 2011 10:43 PM
To: "Techno-Chat ... Technology Enthusiasm!" <techno-chat at techno-chat.net>
Subject: Re: JAWS 13: Convenient OCR

> I should also mention that there is a lot of discussion on this particular 
> topic over on the GW-Info list <smile..
>
>
> On 01/10/2011, at 5:51 AM, David McLean wrote:
>
>> Actually it doesn't solve capchas, or would be unlikely to.  They said as 
>> much in the last fs cast.
>> On Sep 30, 2011, at 3:47 PM, Mary Stores wrote:
>>
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> Remember last week or so, there were so messages about JAWS 13 and how 
>>> it would help solve CAPCHAs? I remember Dane, you had said that Freedom 
>>> Scientific were once again behind, that there were already other 
>>> programs that do that.
>>>
>>> I am listening to the FS58 podcast. It does not just help solve CAPCHAs, 
>>> this feature called Convenient OCR, but it also reads PDFs that are just 
>>> images, or text conveyed as graphics on web pages with just a few simple 
>>> keystrokes.
>>>
>>> Now that I know more about this feature, I am really excited about it.
>>>
>>> Mary
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> =======================================
>>>
>>> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, 
>>> virus and worm-free
>>>
>>> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated 
>>> web pages located at
>>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat
>>>
>>> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group 
>>> at either of the following websites:
>>>
>>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html
>>>
>>> Or:
>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat at techno-chat.net>
>>> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat at techno-chat.net/maillist.xml>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------
>>
>>
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>> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
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>>
>> ---------------------------------------
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>
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> and worm-free
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>
> ---------------------------------------  


From grtdane at internode.on.net  Sat Oct  1 10:57:09 2011
From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane trethowan)
Date: Sat, 01 Oct 2011 19:57:09 +1000
Subject: JAWS 13: Convenient OCR
In-Reply-To: <804BD3EE7C3C4ACEA852BAA06458A37E@DanielPC>
References: <20110930154731.udd9retts0wcgcoc@webmail.iu.edu><CBBA446A-D73F-4F8A-86BD-73CDC7CE7F75@cox.net>
	<9BA3E9FB-980E-4F6B-83BE-D8105AD1EE66@internode.on.net>
	<804BD3EE7C3C4ACEA852BAA06458A37E@DanielPC>
Message-ID: <4E86E3F5.8060600@internode.on.net>

I have no trouble in following your logic in the message below.

I'm sure that the OCR function in JAWS 13 will develop as JAWS has done 
over time, look in history books back to the first motor cars on the 
road and you wonder how people back in those days put up with them, 
compare one of those to a motor car on the road today <smile>.

the main problem for me with JAWS is the SMA thing they have, to me its 
a fake and a sham.  System Access to Go doesn't have a SMA, you buy the 
product and that's it, congratulations! you have their product along 
with a lifetime's worth of upgrades and that to me is exactly how it 
should be when buying a Screen Reading package or any other product.  I 
do realise that a lot of software products don't have lifetime upgrades 
included in their purchase price but having said that? Well the purchase 
prices and upgrade pricing is usually so low that you don't mind handing 
the pocket money over to receive the benefits any upgrade may offer <smile>.

As for NVDA and your hearing impairment? I can certainly sympathise with 
you as I have a hearing impairment myself but I give you some good news 
I hope, have you ever considered using one of your JAWS voices with 
NVDA? If you have both Screen Readers on your system then you should 
have no trouble in setting NVDA up to use the JAWS voices.

I use NVDA on all my Windows PC systems - 3 in total - and by fiddling 
with E-Speak, I managed to find some settings which sound rather nice, 
its just trial and error.



On 1/10/2011 7:37 PM, Daniel McGee wrote:
> Well for me, my view for what its worth I didn't really care much for 
> the O.C.R with Jaws. Like Eric said at present it might not solve 
> captures. That doesn't mean it won't in the future. I admit I do use 
> jaws and have my own copy of Jaws 12 but at present I haven't found 
> any reason why I need to upgrade to 13 when I can use NVDA for free.
> Just to make sure before people get the wrong inpression I am not 
> saying that I wouldn't pay the money for Jaws upgrades its just at 
> this moment in tim well lets say I'm not hooked on a particular 
> feature there by parting my cash thinking "oh yeah! I really like this 
> new thing in jaws I'm going to get it!" Also as a final note I like 
> jaws mainly for eloquence but in my case I have a hearing impairment 
> which is why I use it when I get a little tired of NVDA's Espeak.
>
> Thanks for reading
>
> Daniel e
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Dane Trethowan" <grtdane at internode.on.net>
> Sent: Friday, September 30, 2011 10:43 PM
> To: "Techno-Chat ... Technology Enthusiasm!" 
> <techno-chat at techno-chat.net>
> Subject: Re: JAWS 13: Convenient OCR
>
>> I should also mention that there is a lot of discussion on this 
>> particular topic over on the GW-Info list <smile..
>>
>>
>> On 01/10/2011, at 5:51 AM, David McLean wrote:
>>
>>> Actually it doesn't solve capchas, or would be unlikely to.  They 
>>> said as much in the last fs cast.
>>> On Sep 30, 2011, at 3:47 PM, Mary Stores wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hello,
>>>>
>>>> Remember last week or so, there were so messages about JAWS 13 and 
>>>> how it would help solve CAPCHAs? I remember Dane, you had said that 
>>>> Freedom Scientific were once again behind, that there were already 
>>>> other programs that do that.
>>>>
>>>> I am listening to the FS58 podcast. It does not just help solve 
>>>> CAPCHAs, this feature called Convenient OCR, but it also reads PDFs 
>>>> that are just images, or text conveyed as graphics on web pages 
>>>> with just a few simple keystrokes.
>>>>
>>>> Now that I know more about this feature, I am really excited about it.
>>>>
>>>> Mary
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> =======================================
>>>>
>>>> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, 
>>>> Trojan, virus and worm-free
>>>>
>>>> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's 
>>>> dedicated web pages located at
>>>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat
>>>>
>>>> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat 
>>>> group at either of the following websites:
>>>>
>>>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html
>>>>
>>>> Or:
>>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat at techno-chat.net>
>>>> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
>>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat at techno-chat.net/maillist.xml>
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------
>>>
>>>
>>> =======================================
>>>
>>> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, 
>>> virus and worm-free
>>>
>>> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's 
>>> dedicated web pages located at
>>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat
>>>
>>> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat 
>>> group at either of the following websites:
>>>
>>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html
>>>
>>> Or:
>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat at techno-chat.net>
>>> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat at techno-chat.net/maillist.xml>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------
>>
>>
>> =======================================
>>
>> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, 
>> virus and worm-free
>>
>> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's 
>> dedicated web pages located at
>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat
>>
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>> group at either of the following websites:
>>
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>>
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>> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat at techno-chat.net/maillist.xml>
>>
>> --------------------------------------- 
>
>
> =======================================
>
> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, 
> virus and worm-free
>
> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's 
> dedicated web pages located at
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> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat 
> group at either of the following websites:
>
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>
> ---------------------------------------

From grtdane at internode.on.net  Sat Oct  1 11:19:56 2011
From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane trethowan)
Date: Sat, 01 Oct 2011 20:19:56 +1000
Subject: Adobe Dreamweaver CS Software
Message-ID: <4E86E94C.9060106@internode.on.net>

Hi!

I'm looking for web publishing software for windows and all reports 
appear to indicate that this package is the most accessible under 
Windows, does anyone have any purchasing details or a link to a trial 
version?



From lynne at mac-access.net  Sat Oct  1 11:45:20 2011
From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith)
Date: Sat, 1 Oct 2011 11:45:20 +0100
Subject: Adobe Dreamweaver CS Software
In-Reply-To: <4E86E94C.9060106@internode.on.net>
References: <4E86E94C.9060106@internode.on.net>
Message-ID: <6E1D7B87-508A-43DF-8A56-658DCE2750EE@mac-access.net>

I'm going bro buy this in the next day or two.

On 1 Oct 2011, at 11:19, Dane trethowan wrote:

Hi!

I'm looking for web publishing software for windows and all reports appear to indicate that this package is the most accessible under Windows, does anyone have any purchasing details or a link to a trial version?



=======================================

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To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
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---------------------------------------


From venables134 at btinternet.com  Sat Oct  1 12:14:45 2011
From: venables134 at btinternet.com (Daniel McGee)
Date: Sat, 1 Oct 2011 12:14:45 +0100
Subject: JAWS 13: Convenient OCR
In-Reply-To: <4E86E3F5.8060600@internode.on.net>
References: <20110930154731.udd9retts0wcgcoc@webmail.iu.edu><CBBA446A-D73F-4F8A-86BD-73CDC7CE7F75@cox.net><9BA3E9FB-980E-4F6B-83BE-D8105AD1EE66@internode.on.net><804BD3EE7C3C4ACEA852BAA06458A37E@DanielPC>
	<4E86E3F5.8060600@internode.on.net>
Message-ID: <9BA246064303427EAB538D44E9520332@DanielPC>

Hi Dane, nice to have another hearing in pared person on this list. Two 
things I'd like to ask you.
1. When you say I can get the jaws voices to work with NVDA the thing is how 
can I do this?
2. You mentioned that you have fiddled around with espeak voices. Can you 
tell me what voices you like using names, us or UK, pitch etc.

Thanks

Daniel

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Dane trethowan" <grtdane at internode.on.net>
Sent: Saturday, October 01, 2011 10:57 AM
To: "Techno-Chat ... Technology Enthusiasm!" <techno-chat at techno-chat.net>
Subject: Re: JAWS 13: Convenient OCR

> I have no trouble in following your logic in the message below.
>
> I'm sure that the OCR function in JAWS 13 will develop as JAWS has done 
> over time, look in history books back to the first motor cars on the road 
> and you wonder how people back in those days put up with them, compare one 
> of those to a motor car on the road today <smile>.
>
> the main problem for me with JAWS is the SMA thing they have, to me its a 
> fake and a sham.  System Access to Go doesn't have a SMA, you buy the 
> product and that's it, congratulations! you have their product along with 
> a lifetime's worth of upgrades and that to me is exactly how it should be 
> when buying a Screen Reading package or any other product.  I do realise 
> that a lot of software products don't have lifetime upgrades included in 
> their purchase price but having said that? Well the purchase prices and 
> upgrade pricing is usually so low that you don't mind handing the pocket 
> money over to receive the benefits any upgrade may offer <smile>.
>
> As for NVDA and your hearing impairment? I can certainly sympathise with 
> you as I have a hearing impairment myself but I give you some good news I 
> hope, have you ever considered using one of your JAWS voices with NVDA? If 
> you have both Screen Readers on your system then you should have no 
> trouble in setting NVDA up to use the JAWS voices.
>
> I use NVDA on all my Windows PC systems - 3 in total - and by fiddling 
> with E-Speak, I managed to find some settings which sound rather nice, its 
> just trial and error.
>
>
>
> On 1/10/2011 7:37 PM, Daniel McGee wrote:
>> Well for me, my view for what its worth I didn't really care much for the 
>> O.C.R with Jaws. Like Eric said at present it might not solve captures. 
>> That doesn't mean it won't in the future. I admit I do use jaws and have 
>> my own copy of Jaws 12 but at present I haven't found any reason why I 
>> need to upgrade to 13 when I can use NVDA for free.
>> Just to make sure before people get the wrong inpression I am not saying 
>> that I wouldn't pay the money for Jaws upgrades its just at this moment 
>> in tim well lets say I'm not hooked on a particular feature there by 
>> parting my cash thinking "oh yeah! I really like this new thing in jaws 
>> I'm going to get it!" Also as a final note I like jaws mainly for 
>> eloquence but in my case I have a hearing impairment which is why I use 
>> it when I get a little tired of NVDA's Espeak.
>>
>> Thanks for reading
>>
>> Daniel e
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------
>> From: "Dane Trethowan" <grtdane at internode.on.net>
>> Sent: Friday, September 30, 2011 10:43 PM
>> To: "Techno-Chat ... Technology Enthusiasm!" 
>> <techno-chat at techno-chat.net>
>> Subject: Re: JAWS 13: Convenient OCR
>>
>>> I should also mention that there is a lot of discussion on this 
>>> particular topic over on the GW-Info list <smile..
>>>
>>>
>>> On 01/10/2011, at 5:51 AM, David McLean wrote:
>>>
>>>> Actually it doesn't solve capchas, or would be unlikely to.  They said 
>>>> as much in the last fs cast.
>>>> On Sep 30, 2011, at 3:47 PM, Mary Stores wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>
>>>>> Remember last week or so, there were so messages about JAWS 13 and how 
>>>>> it would help solve CAPCHAs? I remember Dane, you had said that 
>>>>> Freedom Scientific were once again behind, that there were already 
>>>>> other programs that do that.
>>>>>
>>>>> I am listening to the FS58 podcast. It does not just help solve 
>>>>> CAPCHAs, this feature called Convenient OCR, but it also reads PDFs 
>>>>> that are just images, or text conveyed as graphics on web pages with 
>>>>> just a few simple keystrokes.
>>>>>
>>>>> Now that I know more about this feature, I am really excited about it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Mary
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> =======================================
>>>>>
>>>>> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, 
>>>>> virus and worm-free
>>>>>
>>>>> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's 
>>>>> dedicated web pages located at
>>>>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat
>>>>>
>>>>> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat 
>>>>> group at either of the following websites:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html
>>>>>
>>>>> Or:
>>>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat at techno-chat.net>
>>>>> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
>>>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat at techno-chat.net/maillist.xml>
>>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> =======================================
>>>>
>>>> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, 
>>>> virus and worm-free
>>>>
>>>> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated 
>>>> web pages located at
>>>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat
>>>>
>>>> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group 
>>>> at either of the following websites:
>>>>
>>>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html
>>>>
>>>> Or:
>>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat at techno-chat.net>
>>>> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
>>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat at techno-chat.net/maillist.xml>
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------
>>>
>>>
>>> =======================================
>>>
>>> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, 
>>> virus and worm-free
>>>
>>> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated 
>>> web pages located at
>>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat
>>>
>>> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group 
>>> at either of the following websites:
>>>
>>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html
>>>
>>> Or:
>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat at techno-chat.net>
>>> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat at techno-chat.net/maillist.xml>
>>>
>>> --------------------------------------- 
>>
>>
>> =======================================
>>
>> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, 
>> virus and worm-free
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>> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated 
>> web pages located at
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>> ---------------------------------------
>
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> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus 
> and worm-free
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> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated 
> web pages located at
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> ---------------------------------------  


From grtdane at internode.on.net  Sat Oct  1 12:17:52 2011
From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane trethowan)
Date: Sat, 01 Oct 2011 21:17:52 +1000
Subject: JAWS 13: Convenient OCR
In-Reply-To: <9BA246064303427EAB538D44E9520332@DanielPC>
References: <20110930154731.udd9retts0wcgcoc@webmail.iu.edu><CBBA446A-D73F-4F8A-86BD-73CDC7CE7F75@cox.net><9BA3E9FB-980E-4F6B-83BE-D8105AD1EE66@internode.on.net><804BD3EE7C3C4ACEA852BAA06458A37E@DanielPC>
	<4E86E3F5.8060600@internode.on.net>
	<9BA246064303427EAB538D44E9520332@DanielPC>
Message-ID: <4E86F6E0.7080402@internode.on.net>

he U.K. voice is the one I think I'm using.

to change to one of the JAWS voices with NVDA, you'll have to poke about 
in both Voice and Synthesiser settings from the Preferences menu of NVDA.



On 1/10/2011 9:14 PM, Daniel McGee wrote:
> Hi Dane, nice to have another hearing in pared person on this list. 
> Two things I'd like to ask you.
> 1. When you say I can get the jaws voices to work with NVDA the thing 
> is how can I do this?
> 2. You mentioned that you have fiddled around with espeak voices. Can 
> you tell me what voices you like using names, us or UK, pitch etc.
>
> Thanks
>
> Daniel
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Dane trethowan" <grtdane at internode.on.net>
> Sent: Saturday, October 01, 2011 10:57 AM
> To: "Techno-Chat ... Technology Enthusiasm!" 
> <techno-chat at techno-chat.net>
> Subject: Re: JAWS 13: Convenient OCR
>
>> I have no trouble in following your logic in the message below.
>>
>> I'm sure that the OCR function in JAWS 13 will develop as JAWS has 
>> done over time, look in history books back to the first motor cars on 
>> the road and you wonder how people back in those days put up with 
>> them, compare one of those to a motor car on the road today <smile>.
>>
>> the main problem for me with JAWS is the SMA thing they have, to me 
>> its a fake and a sham.  System Access to Go doesn't have a SMA, you 
>> buy the product and that's it, congratulations! you have their 
>> product along with a lifetime's worth of upgrades and that to me is 
>> exactly how it should be when buying a Screen Reading package or any 
>> other product.  I do realise that a lot of software products don't 
>> have lifetime upgrades included in their purchase price but having 
>> said that? Well the purchase prices and upgrade pricing is usually so 
>> low that you don't mind handing the pocket money over to receive the 
>> benefits any upgrade may offer <smile>.
>>
>> As for NVDA and your hearing impairment? I can certainly sympathise 
>> with you as I have a hearing impairment myself but I give you some 
>> good news I hope, have you ever considered using one of your JAWS 
>> voices with NVDA? If you have both Screen Readers on your system then 
>> you should have no trouble in setting NVDA up to use the JAWS voices.
>>
>> I use NVDA on all my Windows PC systems - 3 in total - and by 
>> fiddling with E-Speak, I managed to find some settings which sound 
>> rather nice, its just trial and error.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 1/10/2011 7:37 PM, Daniel McGee wrote:
>>> Well for me, my view for what its worth I didn't really care much 
>>> for the O.C.R with Jaws. Like Eric said at present it might not 
>>> solve captures. That doesn't mean it won't in the future. I admit I 
>>> do use jaws and have my own copy of Jaws 12 but at present I haven't 
>>> found any reason why I need to upgrade to 13 when I can use NVDA for 
>>> free.
>>> Just to make sure before people get the wrong inpression I am not 
>>> saying that I wouldn't pay the money for Jaws upgrades its just at 
>>> this moment in tim well lets say I'm not hooked on a particular 
>>> feature there by parting my cash thinking "oh yeah! I really like 
>>> this new thing in jaws I'm going to get it!" Also as a final note I 
>>> like jaws mainly for eloquence but in my case I have a hearing 
>>> impairment which is why I use it when I get a little tired of NVDA's 
>>> Espeak.
>>>
>>> Thanks for reading
>>>
>>> Daniel e
>>>
>>> --------------------------------------------------
>>> From: "Dane Trethowan" <grtdane at internode.on.net>
>>> Sent: Friday, September 30, 2011 10:43 PM
>>> To: "Techno-Chat ... Technology Enthusiasm!" 
>>> <techno-chat at techno-chat.net>
>>> Subject: Re: JAWS 13: Convenient OCR
>>>
>>>> I should also mention that there is a lot of discussion on this 
>>>> particular topic over on the GW-Info list <smile..
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 01/10/2011, at 5:51 AM, David McLean wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Actually it doesn't solve capchas, or would be unlikely to.  They 
>>>>> said as much in the last fs cast.
>>>>> On Sep 30, 2011, at 3:47 PM, Mary Stores wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Remember last week or so, there were so messages about JAWS 13 
>>>>>> and how it would help solve CAPCHAs? I remember Dane, you had 
>>>>>> said that Freedom Scientific were once again behind, that there 
>>>>>> were already other programs that do that.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am listening to the FS58 podcast. It does not just help solve 
>>>>>> CAPCHAs, this feature called Convenient OCR, but it also reads 
>>>>>> PDFs that are just images, or text conveyed as graphics on web 
>>>>>> pages with just a few simple keystrokes.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Now that I know more about this feature, I am really excited 
>>>>>> about it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mary
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> =======================================
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, 
>>>>>> Trojan, virus and worm-free
>>>>>>
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>>>>>> dedicated web pages located at
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>>>>>>
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>>>>>> group at either of the following websites:
>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
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>>>>>> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>
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From d.griffith at btinternet.com  Sat Oct  1 15:58:10 2011
From: d.griffith at btinternet.com (David Griffith)
Date: Sat, 1 Oct 2011 15:58:10 +0100
Subject: JAWS 13: Convenient OCR
In-Reply-To: <9BA246064303427EAB538D44E9520332@DanielPC>
Message-ID: <117868.32212.qm@smtp823.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>

I think there are quite a few hearing impaired people on the list, myself
included I  wear 2 hearing aids.
Re Jaws voices I am not sure that if you have a version of Jaws that is
relatively recent that you can any longer access the eloquence voices for
NVDA. I think the build changed to prevent this sort of thing in version 7
or about then. This was certainly  what was reported on the NVDA list I used
to belong to. . However what you can definitely do is access the eloquence
voices if you have Kurzweil 1000  version 11  installed. The voices are
under the speech works label but they are the familiar eloquence US and UK
English voices including Reed etc. If you do not have Kurzweil you could try
installing it and running it in 30 day demo mode. I think you will need a CD
for this. This may give you permanent access to the voices - I am not
entirely sure.

To change voices in NVDA you need to do a 2 stage process.
1. Go to preferences and synthesizer and change this to SAPI 4. 
Next go to the preferences again and now select voices. You will find the
familiar Reed Glen Shelley Justin voices listed there.

Regards

David Griffith.

-----Original Message-----
From: techno-chat-bounces at techno-chat.net
[mailto:techno-chat-bounces at techno-chat.net] On Behalf Of Daniel McGee
Sent: 01 October 2011 12:15
To: Techno-Chat ... Technology Enthusiasm!
Subject: Re: JAWS 13: Convenient OCR

Hi Dane, nice to have another hearing in pared person on this list. Two
things I'd like to ask you.
1. When you say I can get the jaws voices to work with NVDA the thing is how
can I do this?
2. You mentioned that you have fiddled around with espeak voices. Can you
tell me what voices you like using names, us or UK, pitch etc.

Thanks

Daniel

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Dane trethowan" <grtdane at internode.on.net>
Sent: Saturday, October 01, 2011 10:57 AM
To: "Techno-Chat ... Technology Enthusiasm!" <techno-chat at techno-chat.net>
Subject: Re: JAWS 13: Convenient OCR

> I have no trouble in following your logic in the message below.
>
> I'm sure that the OCR function in JAWS 13 will develop as JAWS has 
> done over time, look in history books back to the first motor cars on 
> the road and you wonder how people back in those days put up with 
> them, compare one of those to a motor car on the road today <smile>.
>
> the main problem for me with JAWS is the SMA thing they have, to me 
> its a fake and a sham.  System Access to Go doesn't have a SMA, you 
> buy the product and that's it, congratulations! you have their product 
> along with a lifetime's worth of upgrades and that to me is exactly 
> how it should be when buying a Screen Reading package or any other 
> product.  I do realise that a lot of software products don't have 
> lifetime upgrades included in their purchase price but having said 
> that? Well the purchase prices and upgrade pricing is usually so low 
> that you don't mind handing the pocket money over to receive the benefits
any upgrade may offer <smile>.
>
> As for NVDA and your hearing impairment? I can certainly sympathise 
> with you as I have a hearing impairment myself but I give you some 
> good news I hope, have you ever considered using one of your JAWS 
> voices with NVDA? If you have both Screen Readers on your system then 
> you should have no trouble in setting NVDA up to use the JAWS voices.
>
> I use NVDA on all my Windows PC systems - 3 in total - and by fiddling 
> with E-Speak, I managed to find some settings which sound rather nice, 
> its just trial and error.
>
>
>
> On 1/10/2011 7:37 PM, Daniel McGee wrote:
>> Well for me, my view for what its worth I didn't really care much for 
>> the O.C.R with Jaws. Like Eric said at present it might not solve
captures.
>> That doesn't mean it won't in the future. I admit I do use jaws and 
>> have my own copy of Jaws 12 but at present I haven't found any reason 
>> why I need to upgrade to 13 when I can use NVDA for free.
>> Just to make sure before people get the wrong inpression I am not 
>> saying that I wouldn't pay the money for Jaws upgrades its just at 
>> this moment in tim well lets say I'm not hooked on a particular 
>> feature there by parting my cash thinking "oh yeah! I really like 
>> this new thing in jaws I'm going to get it!" Also as a final note I 
>> like jaws mainly for eloquence but in my case I have a hearing 
>> impairment which is why I use it when I get a little tired of NVDA's
Espeak.
>>
>> Thanks for reading
>>
>> Daniel e
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------
>> From: "Dane Trethowan" <grtdane at internode.on.net>
>> Sent: Friday, September 30, 2011 10:43 PM
>> To: "Techno-Chat ... Technology Enthusiasm!" 
>> <techno-chat at techno-chat.net>
>> Subject: Re: JAWS 13: Convenient OCR
>>
>>> I should also mention that there is a lot of discussion on this 
>>> particular topic over on the GW-Info list <smile..
>>>
>>>
>>> On 01/10/2011, at 5:51 AM, David McLean wrote:
>>>
>>>> Actually it doesn't solve capchas, or would be unlikely to.  They 
>>>> said as much in the last fs cast.
>>>> On Sep 30, 2011, at 3:47 PM, Mary Stores wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>
>>>>> Remember last week or so, there were so messages about JAWS 13 and 
>>>>> how it would help solve CAPCHAs? I remember Dane, you had said 
>>>>> that Freedom Scientific were once again behind, that there were 
>>>>> already other programs that do that.
>>>>>
>>>>> I am listening to the FS58 podcast. It does not just help solve 
>>>>> CAPCHAs, this feature called Convenient OCR, but it also reads 
>>>>> PDFs that are just images, or text conveyed as graphics on web 
>>>>> pages with just a few simple keystrokes.
>>>>>
>>>>> Now that I know more about this feature, I am really excited about it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Mary
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> =======================================
>>>>>
>>>>> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, 
>>>>> Trojan, virus and worm-free
>>>>>
>>>>> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's 
>>>>> dedicated web pages located at 
>>>>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat
>>>>>
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>>>>> group at either of the following websites:
>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>> Or:
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>>>>> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
>>>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat at techno-chat.net/maillist.
>>>>> xml>
>>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> =======================================
>>>>
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>>>> Trojan, virus and worm-free
>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>> group at either of the following websites:
>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
>>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat at techno-chat.net/maillist.x
>>>> ml>
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------
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>>>
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>>> l>
>>>
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---------------------------------------

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From mstores at indiana.edu  Mon Oct  3 14:23:44 2011
From: mstores at indiana.edu (Mary Stores)
Date: Mon,  3 Oct 2011 09:23:44 -0400
Subject: JAWS 13: Convenient OCR
In-Reply-To: <CBBA446A-D73F-4F8A-86BD-73CDC7CE7F75@cox.net>
References: <20110930154731.udd9retts0wcgcoc@webmail.iu.edu>
	<CBBA446A-D73F-4F8A-86BD-73CDC7CE7F75@cox.net>
Message-ID: <20111003092344.cvzp6dfusksggc8o@webmail.iu.edu>

Honestly, I heard differently. I was just listening to it.

Mary

Quoting David McLean <david.mclean at cox.net>:

> Actually it doesn't solve capchas, or would be unlikely to.  They
> said as much in the last fs cast.



From mstores at indiana.edu  Mon Oct  3 14:36:24 2011
From: mstores at indiana.edu (Mary Stores)
Date: Mon,  3 Oct 2011 09:36:24 -0400
Subject: A gentle reminder
In-Reply-To: <117868.32212.qm@smtp823.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
References: <117868.32212.qm@smtp823.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20111003093624.cegshg54008c44ww@webmail.iu.edu>

Hello, all.

As I'm going through my e-mail, I've noticed some messages on list 
whose subject lines are no longer relevant to the topic of the e-mail 
post. I have also noticed at least three messages attached to the 
reply. Please, let's all make more of an effort to follow list 
guidelines and only quote relevant material, as well as keeping subject 
lines current.

I appologize if someone has already taken the initiative to post this 
message. I am obviously behind.

Thanks,

Mary




From chris.hallsworth at techno-chat.net  Mon Oct  3 14:56:51 2011
From: chris.hallsworth at techno-chat.net (chris hallsworth)
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2011 14:56:51 +0100
Subject: NVDA podcasts
Message-ID: <4E89BF23.7090001@techno-chat.net>

Hello all.
First of all, I would like to apologize in advance for sending this to 
multiple lists. The reason is below.
Here are five podcasts relating to the installation and usage of the 
NVDA free and open source screen reader. 
http://www.blindtechsupport.net/podcasts/sr/nvda/
I hope you find these useful.
Chat soon.

From lynne at mac-access.net  Mon Oct  3 18:57:23 2011
From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2011 18:57:23 +0100
Subject: A gentle reminder
In-Reply-To: <20111003093624.cegshg54008c44ww@webmail.iu.edu>
References: <117868.32212.qm@smtp823.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
	<20111003093624.cegshg54008c44ww@webmail.iu.edu>
Message-ID: <E556D6CB-4D8C-4C60-86DD-2D9C90DF37C2@mac-access.net>

Hello Mary

You're spot-on, thank you. We need to start making sure this doesn't become a habit.

Lynne

On 3 Oct 2011, at 14:36, Mary Stores wrote:

Hello, all.

As I'm going through my e-mail, I've noticed some messages on list whose subject lines are no longer relevant to the topic of the e-mail post. I have also noticed at least three messages attached to the reply. Please, let's all make more of an effort to follow list guidelines and only quote relevant material, as well as keeping subject lines current.

I appologize if someone has already taken the initiative to post this message. I am obviously behind.

Thanks,

Mary




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From martin at x.it.okstate.edu  Mon Oct  3 21:25:49 2011
From: martin at x.it.okstate.edu (Martin McCormick)
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2011 15:25:49 -0500
Subject: Ready to Play the Space Junk Lottery? 
Message-ID: <201110032025.p93KPn3g020751@x.it.okstate.edu>

	I finally had a chance to listen to the recording I made
of two VHF radio frequencies that could help indicate if
anything big fell in to the Earth's atmosphere a week ago
Saturday. A person I know in town, here, said that he had been
outside at about 3:30 to 3:45 in the morning US-Central Daylight
(Summer) time. He saw a big shooting star or something and
wondered whether or not it was a piece of the satellite. I am
thinking that it is not likely because it was suspected that the
satellite burned up over the North Pacific between Midnight and
03:00 Eastern time which is an hour ahead of Central.

	One of the frequencies I had tuned in was 55.240 MHZ
which is one of the video carrier frequencies of TV Channel 2 in
the Americas. The other frequency around 218 MHZ is a project by
the US Air Force. This is an unclassified radar system that
sends several steady carrier signals straight up in to the sky
in a belt roughly across the Central United States. Airplanes
and satellites passing overhead reflect some of the signal back
to Earth and one can listen for those reflections.

	When a satellite hits the beam, the steady carrier
appears to drift in frequency because of the Doppler effect so
what you hear is a note that appears that rises or drops in
pitch before disappearing a few seconds later.

	If the object is a meteor/piece of space junk, it
creates ionization which makes it reflect even more. The Doppler
effect is really strong and the whole thing is over in maybe a
quarter of a second. The sound you hear is like the slide
whistle in a cartoon when somebody gets bopped on the head or
punched in the face. There is no thump afterward, but the
whistle is pretty funny to hear.

	Anyway, the radios were just hissing quietly at that
time of day when suddenly, the one tuned to the radar system
made one of those absurd cartoon whistles. A fraction of a
second later, the receiver tuned to the television video carrier
frequency received a brief burst of carrier from somewhere,
probably Mexico, and then everything went quiet again. It was
all over in about 2 seconds.

	The satellite probably would have taken much longer to
burn up and there would have been even more cool whistles, but
that meteor or whatever it was was pretty good.

	I'm glad I didn't stay up all night for that, but it was
interesting to correlate that report by the person who did see
something burn up with the reflected signals on the radio.

	Even if you happen to be blind, you can enjoy meteor
showers and anything else that falls in to the atmosphere and
burns up somewhere overhead.

From david.mclean at cox.net  Mon Oct  3 21:20:31 2011
From: david.mclean at cox.net (David McLean)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2011 16:20:31 -0400
Subject: JAWS 13: Convenient OCR
In-Reply-To: <20111003092344.cvzp6dfusksggc8o@webmail.iu.edu>
References: <20110930154731.udd9retts0wcgcoc@webmail.iu.edu>
	<CBBA446A-D73F-4F8A-86BD-73CDC7CE7F75@cox.net>
	<20111003092344.cvzp6dfusksggc8o@webmail.iu.edu>
Message-ID: <9E2C585A-0DDD-4436-BB0E-9DD0B78D1E0C@cox.net>

Well I hope for both our sakes you are correct!
On Oct 3, 2011, at 9:23 AM, Mary Stores wrote:

> Honestly, I heard differently. I was just listening to it.
> 
> Mary
> 
> Quoting David McLean <david.mclean at cox.net>:
> 
>> Actually it doesn't solve capchas, or would be unlikely to.  They
>> said as much in the last fs cast.
> 
> 
> 
> =======================================
> 
> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free
> 
> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
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> 
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From grtdane at internode.on.net  Tue Oct  4 09:39:54 2011
From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 19:39:54 +1100
Subject: Power supplies, I'm curious..
Message-ID: <843BD18B-E6DD-443F-81A1-FD6D8FF51E46@internode.on.net>

Howdy!

Just purchased some new power supplies for some equipment here.

The first one I bought was something I've been after for as long as I can remember, this model is best described perhaps as a battery iliminator and can supply output voltages from 3-12 regulated.

So what you say? Well firstly this power supply isn't the "run of the mill" type of terribly noisy wall plug pack you'd buy at your local Walmart, Woolworths or similar, we're talking about a bench top switch mode supply which delivers a 3 amp current output at any of the voltages listed above, at 3 inches square this supply is amazingly small given the amount of current it can handle.

The supply comes with 2 screw terminals which have banana plugs at the end, the supplied accessaries include a lead with spade clips at one end for connection to the supply and a connector at the other to accomidate one of the supplied plugs which can be plugged into whatever gadget you wish to power, 7 of these plugs in all and I've found that I can power everything I have with this unit and the supplied plugs right down to my old and faithful Sony pocket MD recorder <smile>.

The other supplied accessary is a spade clip to elligator clip lead, just the sort of thing you may need if you wish to test something or run a gadget that doesn't fit one of the supplied plugs.

The supply also has overload protection.

And to the second supply I bought which is just your standard regulated 13.8 volt DC output 2 amp supply for powering some CB radio equipment here.

So now to the question, the first supply I mentioned was a switch mode type and the second supply uses the humble old transformer to supply the current and I ask why are transformers still being used in CB supplies? I thought the whole idea of a switch mode supply was to enable the use of high current efficiently and surely that quality would be a first feature in a supply to give power to radio equipment.



From martin at x.it.okstate.edu  Tue Oct  4 17:13:21 2011
From: martin at x.it.okstate.edu (Martin McCormick)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2011 11:13:21 -0500
Subject: Power supplies, I'm curious.. 
Message-ID: <201110041613.p94GDLPh025460@x.it.okstate.edu>

	You ask a good question which I will attempt to answer.

	Switch mode power supplies are more efficient since they
first convert the wall socket power to DC and then via
solid-state components to alternating current at several tens if
not hundreds of kilohertz.

	Transformers at those frequencies can be made much
lighter and smaller and still be highly efficient. The output is
then rectified and filtered by components which can also be much
smaller and lighter because they are filtering out the high
frequency alternating current instead of 50 or 60-HZ alternating
current which, when filtered, produces either a 100 or 120-HZ
ripple or hum on the output.

	The problem about radio equipment is that by nature, it
is very sensitive to radio frequency interference and the
chopper circuits in a switch-mode power supply produce just the
right kind of wave forms to cause interference well in to the
VHF range.

	Some manufacturers of switch-mode power supplies spend
enough engineering time on filtering and noise-suppression
circuits to essentially filter it all out, but this makes for an
expensive power supply and it may start producing noise several
years down the road if some of the filtering components fail or
weaken such as electrolytic capacitors.

	The old brute force system using a heavy transformer at
the power line frequency followed by a rectifier, filter to
remove the 60 or 120-HZ hum from the output, and a series-pass
voltage regulator is not nearly as likely to produce radio
frequency noise although it can happen.

	Another thing about the old power supply design is that
if the pass transistors should short, the full unregulated
voltage at the output of the filter capacitors will be fed in to
whatever device you are powering. This is usually 6 or 8 volts
higher than it should be and it usually destroys the device in a
blaze of glory, well, maybe not that, but it usually does
damage.

	You have to put what is called a crowbar circuit in such
a power supply to make it blow its own fuse if the output goes
too high.

	Switch-mode supplies usually fail safely in that they
just die and stop producing output.

	One common failure mode for switchers is the blowing out
of the chopper transistors on the high-voltage side of the
transformer. This usually blows the fuse and stops everything.

	Brute force supplies are also easier to design so there
is less engineering time which also may have something to do
with why the one supply you bought is a switcher and the other
is not.

Martin



Dane Trethowan writes:
> Howdy!
> 
> Just purchased some new power supplies for some equipment here.
> 
> The first one I bought was something I've been after for as long as I can 
> remember, this model is best described perhaps as a battery iliminator 
> and can supply output voltages from 3-12 regulated.
> 
> So what you say? Well firstly this power supply isn't the "run of the 
> mill" type of terribly noisy wall plug pack you'd buy at your local 
> Walmart, Woolworths or similar, we're talking about a bench top switch 
> mode supply which delivers a 3 amp current output at any of the voltages 
> listed above, at 3 inches square this supply is amazingly small given the 
> amount of current it can handle.
> 
> The supply comes with 2 screw terminals which have banana plugs at the 
> end, the supplied accessaries include a lead with spade clips at one end 
> for connection to the supply and a connector at the other to accomidate 
> one of the supplied plugs which can be plugged into whatever gadget you 
> wish to power, 7 of these plugs in all and I've found that I can power 
> everything I have with this unit and the supplied plugs right down to my 
> old and faithful Sony pocket MD recorder <smile>.
> 
> The other supplied accessary is a spade clip to elligator clip lead, just 
> the sort of thing you may need if you wish to test something or run a 
> gadget that doesn't fit one of the supplied plugs.
> 
> The supply also has overload protection.
> 
> And to the second supply I bought which is just your standard regulated 
> 13.8 volt DC output 2 amp supply for powering some CB radio equipment 
> here.
> 
> So now to the question, the first supply I mentioned was a switch mode 
> type and the second supply uses the humble old transformer to supply the 
> current and I ask why are transformers still being used in CB supplies? I 
> thought the whole idea of a switch mode supply was to enable the use of 
> high current efficiently and surely that quality would be a first feature 
> in a supply to give power to radio equipment.
> 
> 
> 
> =======================================
> 
> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, 
> virus and worm-free
> 
> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated 
> web pages located at
> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat
> 
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> at either of the following websites:
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> ---------------------------------------
> 
> 

From grtdane at internode.on.net  Wed Oct  5 16:53:54 2011
From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2011 02:53:54 +1100
Subject: How do you use NVDA
Message-ID: <4E8C7D92.9020900@internode.on.net>

If you use NVDA then provide NVaccess with feedback on your experience 
with the software and how you use it in your everyday life, work place, 
leisure time etc. http://www.nvaccess.org/wiki/YourNVDAStory

-- 
Dane Trethowan
 From Melton Victoria Australia
skype callto:grtdane12
MSN: grtdane at dane-trethowan.net


From martin at x.it.okstate.edu  Wed Oct  5 20:26:13 2011
From: martin at x.it.okstate.edu (Martin McCormick)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2011 14:26:13 -0500
Subject: Kindle Fire; Will the Corporate World Ever get a Brain?
Message-ID: <201110051926.p95JQDiF032454@x.it.okstate.edu>

It looks like the great techno- Geniuses wake up in a new world
every day. This press release was Emailed to two lists I am on
so you can probably find it if you want to read it, but the
American Counsel for the Blind (ACB) has raised the issue that
the new Kindle Fire appliance has no accessibility features
built in to it.

	A few days ago, I heard Amazon's CEO crowing about what
wonderful things you could do with the Kindle Fire and I
wondered at the time if it had any kind of screen reader built
in to it especially after the knock-down drag-out fight that was
had not so long ago over previous Kindles that were used at
Arizona State University at least by all the sighted students.

	All human beings make mistakes and big corporations are
just the sum of all the fallibility of their executives, but
this is beyond ridiculous.

	Amazon got sued over the fiasco at Arizona State
University and settled by agreeing to fix the problems and make
the Kindle accessible.

	One would think that they would be like the little boy
who got a swat on the bottom for some infraction and who might
be thinking, "I don't want that to happen again. I'll be really
good this time.

	Well, that spot in the wood shed where corporal
punishment is percussively provided looks like it needs to be
occupied once again. I'd love to hear that same voice bellowing
a bit and promising to remember, next time.
Memory this short is worrisome and probably cause to seek medical
help.

	Yes, I know we don't have to buy the Kindle Fire if we
can't use it, but not all electronic reading material can be
bought for all platforms. There will probably be more schools
and or business situations where the one-size-fits-all platform
that you are handed when you come in is the Kindle Fire. This is
what's wrong with not making everything accessible. It's not
like this has never come up before.

	I've been messing with computers now for 32 years and
there was a time in which accessibility did mean a lot of extra
effort for limited reward, but that time is over.

	Wonders after something like this, what's it going to
take to move on to a new normal where more things just work and
those that don't are being worked on?

Martin

From martin at x.it.okstate.edu  Wed Oct  5 20:54:16 2011
From: martin at x.it.okstate.edu (Martin McCormick)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2011 14:54:16 -0500
Subject: Correction Kindle Fire; Will the Corporate World Ever get a Brain? 
Message-ID: <201110051954.p95JsHIH032581@x.it.okstate.edu>

When talking about law suits, accuracy is important and I
mis-stated one point. The suit was against Arizona State
University, not Amazon.

	I actually think that the university got stuck in the
middle of this because the people responsible for making the
deal to use the Kindles may have not been aware of the problem,
especially since Kindles can be set to read some books aloud.
Anyway, the rest of what I said is accurate til proven otherwise.

From support at techno-chat.net  Thu Oct  6 10:12:47 2011
From: support at techno-chat.net (Gordon & Lynne)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2011 10:12:47 +0100
Subject: New Member Welcome
Message-ID: <DF3EF36B-0F3B-4182-AA53-90C6F5AF5C2D@techno-chat.net>

Hello everybody

It is traditional when new members join the Techno-Chat email forum that we try to welcome the new member(s) personally. In keeping with that tradition, we are delighted to welcome:
Roger Firman
to our number.

Anything related to technology is open for discussion in this group. Members frequently post links to interesting articles in this group. Whilst the primary function of Techno-chat is discussion, we recognise that these articles are often of value. That is why we encourage members to post links, rather than the full articles themselves, to the group. This way, members have the option of whether to follow up the articles, or to discard them.

We hope that you will find Techno-Chat a pleasant, friendly and worthwhile place to be. if you have any list-related queries, please don't hesitate to contact either Gordon and myself, support at mac-access.net or our very able and capable assistant list controller Mary Stores, mstores at indiana.edu and we'll be pleased to help you.




From martin at x.it.okstate.edu  Thu Oct  6 14:13:04 2011
From: martin at x.it.okstate.edu (Martin McCormick)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2011 08:13:04 -0500
Subject: Steve Jobs RIP
Message-ID: <201110061313.p96DD4C7036290@x.it.okstate.edu>

	I never met him, but he indirectly is the reason why I
do what I do today.

	I was still looking for a teaching job in 1979 and the
economy was not doing well so nobody was hiring. Not as bad as
now, but not good, either.

	I knew what computers did but not how they did it and
the only connection I had was I liked to build circuits with
digital logic gates and counters. I had built an alarm clock to
use while in school which was like none other before or since,
but it got the job done. Hint. It used a single 1024-bit by one
memory chip and a bunch of 7493's with a NE555 timer chip as the
alarm oscillator 'cause they'll drive a speaker directly. You
don't want to know the rest.

	My graduate advisor suggested I talk to some people in
Oklahoma City who ran a small computer store. I did and it
turned out that because I was an amateur radio operator, they
would teach me about the Apple II and I could then sell them to
customers who were in to amateur radio because they were always
pestering them with questions they couldn't answer.

	I was there 6 months plus a little part-time work for
them later, but that's how I got in to computers and also
learned assembly language for the 6502. That doesn't do much for
a person these days, but it warps your mind just the right way
to program other systems and appreciate Monty Python and Cheech
and Chong.

Martin

From support at techno-chat.net  Thu Oct  6 21:51:21 2011
From: support at techno-chat.net (Gordon & Lynne)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2011 21:51:21 +0100
Subject: Important! Major List Configuration Changes On The Way; Please Read!
Message-ID: <AB062661-B46E-45BE-AF25-FA1B0E8F898C@techno-chat.net>

Hello everybody

Gordon has just cracked the final problem with our new Mac-Access primary server hardware; so we are shortly going to start to migrate all of our email services away from the mail.tft-bbs.co.uk servers and over to the mail.mac-access.net servers instead. This will bring us several advantages; not the least of which is a more stable and robust database using a new version of Postfix, a new version of MailMan and a new version of several other vital components which we use. It will also allow us to re-allocate other services and improve the website department of the servers to once again incorporate live updates for those for whom we host websites.

Rest assured that we will not make the change until we are convinced that the service is running robustly and reliably. But what we would like to know from you all please is whether any of you are using special configuration options; such as digest mode.

If you're not, and you're just using the standard list membership options such as receiving single messages in regular format and no other custom options are configured on your account, you need do nothing. We will port your membership directly over to the new server when the time comes; so that the transition is smooth and seamless.

When that happens, you will be able to write to the list and to the request address exactly as you do now. However, the list website, archive page and subscriber options pages will change. For instance; instead of landing on:
<http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/listinfo/techno-chat/options/>
, you will find the server pages at:
<http://mail.mac-access.net/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat/options/>
which will be the new home of our mail services.

If you're also a member of sibling lists run by us, they too will change. We will contact our direct clients with more detailed information shortly regarding their own personalised changes. But again, be very sure that we won't make the current services obsolete until absolutely everything is ticketyy-boo on the new servers.

As always if you have question or want further information feel free to write to us at the support address. Requests for information on list will be ignored.

Lynne

From grtdane at internode.on.net  Fri Oct  7 06:12:05 2011
From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane trethowan)
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2011 16:12:05 +1100
Subject: Phone Carrier Gives Away Accessibility Apps With Mobile
Message-ID: <4E8E8A25.70209@internode.on.net>

Okay, for all those brain washed Apple wurshipers out there who think 
there's nothing for blind people to use apart from Iphone then take a 
read of this.
http://www.mediaaccess.org.au/latest_news/general/phone-carrier-gives-away-accessibility-apps-to-blind-and-vision-impaired-users

Only other comment I can add is that this is a great step forward for 
blind and visually impaired people and I can only hope that other 
providers consider this gesture
  or at least consider a discount towards the purchase of the software.



From grtdane at internode.on.net  Fri Oct  7 15:46:58 2011
From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane trethowan)
Date: Sat, 08 Oct 2011 01:46:58 +1100
Subject: Top braille Hand Held reading Assitant for Visually Impaired
Message-ID: <4E8F10E2.5060206@internode.on.net>

I like the sound of this piece of equipment called top Braille 
<http://www.top-braille.eu/lang1/>

The Top Braille has been reviewed at <http://www.blindcooltech.com>

Is available in the U.k. though I'm not sure about other countries at 
this time.



From grtdane at internode.on.net  Fri Oct  7 15:48:43 2011
From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane trethowan)
Date: Sat, 08 Oct 2011 01:48:43 +1100
Subject: Top braille Hand Held reading Assistant for Visually Impaired
Message-ID: <4E8F114B.3070306@internode.on.net>

I like the sound of this piece of equipment called top Braille 
<http://www.top-braille.eu/lang1/>

The Top Braille has been reviewed at <http://www.blindcooltech.com>

Is available in the U.k. though I'm not sure about other countries at 
this time.



From marrie12 at gmail.com  Fri Oct  7 17:13:51 2011
From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah Alawami)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2011 09:13:51 -0700
Subject: Top braille Hand Held reading Assistant for Visually Impaired
In-Reply-To: <4E8F114B.3070306@internode.on.net>
References: <4E8F114B.3070306@internode.on.net>
Message-ID: <41FB10C8-FC5D-48CB-B215-2F7EC9C8455E@gmail.com>

I heard the podcast and it is the slowest method of reading I have ever seen. I love the concept, but there has to be a better way of executing this thing. I don't have any ideas at the moment though but just my opinion.
On Oct 7, 2011, at 7:48 AM, Dane trethowan wrote:

> I like the sound of this piece of equipment called top Braille <http://www.top-braille.eu/lang1/>
> 
> The Top Braille has been reviewed at <http://www.blindcooltech.com>
> 
> Is available in the U.k. though I'm not sure about other countries at this time.
> 
> 
> 
> =======================================
> 
> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free
> 
> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat
> 
> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites:
> 
> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html
> 
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> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
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From grtdane at internode.on.net  Fri Oct  7 17:16:13 2011
From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan)
Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2011 03:16:13 +1100
Subject: Top braille Hand Held reading Assistant for Visually Impaired
In-Reply-To: <41FB10C8-FC5D-48CB-B215-2F7EC9C8455E@gmail.com>
References: <4E8F114B.3070306@internode.on.net>
	<41FB10C8-FC5D-48CB-B215-2F7EC9C8455E@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5E1F479B-CF7F-4C9E-9DE4-DD9E0D54129C@internode.on.net>

Horses for courses ain't it <smile>, I like the concept and I venture to say that the old saying applies here, "Practise Makes Perfect", as you use the device and become more familiar with it then the faster and more proficient you become.


On 08/10/2011, at 3:13 AM, Sarah Alawami wrote:

> I heard the podcast and it is the slowest method of reading I have ever seen. I love the concept, but there has to be a better way of executing this thing. I don't have any ideas at the moment though but just my opinion.
> On Oct 7, 2011, at 7:48 AM, Dane trethowan wrote:
> 
>> I like the sound of this piece of equipment called top Braille <http://www.top-braille.eu/lang1/>
>> 
>> The Top Braille has been reviewed at <http://www.blindcooltech.com>
>> 
>> Is available in the U.k. though I'm not sure about other countries at this time.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> =======================================
>> 
>> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free
>> 
>> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat
>> 
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>> 
>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html
>> 
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>> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
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> 
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> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free
> 
> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
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From grtdane at internode.on.net  Sat Oct  8 13:53:03 2011
From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane trethowan)
Date: Sat, 08 Oct 2011 23:53:03 +1100
Subject: Now you're Cooking recipe Management Software
Message-ID: <4E9047AF.9000601@internode.on.net>

Okay folks, I've only been playing with this software for a few minutes 
and I would have to say that Now You're Cooking is the most accessible 
recipe management software for Windows I've ever worked with and the 
most user-friendly.

If you can't manage recipes and associated information with this 
software then you can't manage recipes or your kitchen at all! <smile>, 
so many ways to input the recipes into the programme from entering them 
manually to importing them straight from a web site to importing them 
from years of notes taken with a text editor <smile>.

Cost is reasonable, I only paid $30.00 Australian to register the 
software, for a little extra you can buy the software on CD with a 
printed manual, in short Now you're Cooking is a bargain but then again 
most shareware titles are ,smile>.



From lynne at mac-access.net  Sun Oct  9 15:46:36 2011
From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2011 15:46:36 +0100
Subject: Windows Antivirus and security applications
Message-ID: <D93A3AE7-C3A0-49E6-8FA7-449C98FF7746@mac-access.net>

Hello everybody

We are now in the process of setting up a couple of machines running Windows. What do people recommend for system security and antivirus? We've had an Eset Smart Security licence for the last 4 years but is expires later this month and we are trying to decide whether to renew it or go for another solution.

Recommendations, suggestions, explanations, justifications, thoughts and opinions welcome. Thank you.

Lynne


From chris.hallsworth at techno-chat.net  Sun Oct  9 16:06:20 2011
From: chris.hallsworth at techno-chat.net (chris hallsworth)
Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2011 16:06:20 +0100
Subject: Windows Antivirus and security applications
In-Reply-To: <D93A3AE7-C3A0-49E6-8FA7-449C98FF7746@mac-access.net>
References: <D93A3AE7-C3A0-49E6-8FA7-449C98FF7746@mac-access.net>
Message-ID: <4E91B86C.2000106@techno-chat.net>

Ok I would go for Microsoft Security Essentials as your antivirus and 
Malwarebytes Antimalware as your second line of defense. These are both 
free and fully accessible applications. I can't see any other 
justification apart from that. If you want to renew your Eset license, 
that's fine. But I use this combination and they work great. In fact, I 
have paid for Malwarebytes Antimalware Pro simply because of the 
realtime protection and scheduler feature. But this one is up to you. 
The free version provides on demand scanning and updating. Hope this helps.

On 09/10/2011 15:46, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:
> Hello everybody
>
> We are now in the process of setting up a couple of machines running Windows. What do people recommend for system security and antivirus? We've had an Eset Smart Security licence for the last 4 years but is expires later this month and we are trying to decide whether to renew it or go for another solution.
>
> Recommendations, suggestions, explanations, justifications, thoughts and opinions welcome. Thank you.
>
> Lynne
>
>
> =======================================
>
> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free
>
> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
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>
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>
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From grtdane at internode.on.net  Sun Oct  9 16:06:54 2011
From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 02:06:54 +1100
Subject: Windows Antivirus and security applications
In-Reply-To: <D93A3AE7-C3A0-49E6-8FA7-449C98FF7746@mac-access.net>
References: <D93A3AE7-C3A0-49E6-8FA7-449C98FF7746@mac-access.net>
Message-ID: <6C9999C8-60EE-4A3D-B3A2-5DE46CBE1548@internode.on.net>

I hope you get some feedback on this topic, here's my recommendations for what they're worth.

I too! have an Eset licence however I will not be renewing it this year, the software doesn't scan for cookies and actually its known that the people at Eset don't think tracking cookies a serious enough issue to be concerned with so I've ditched Eset and switched to Vipre Anti Virus Premium.

The "Premium" edition has everything most people would want including a thorough security scan which includes spyware and cookies, excellent firewall and is more accessible than Eset has ever been though Eset isn't as bad as some of the other offerings out there such as F-Secure which I used for a while.

Like Eset there is no difference in performance of machines whilst Vipre is running and Vipre like Eset scans code in the background so you only know that the Anti Virus software is running if it requires your attention for one reason or another.

1 subscription fee allows you to put Vipre Anti virus on as many computers as you require, there's also a "Lifetime" subscription which I will be investigating myself.

Your subscription entitles you to free newsletters if you wish to use them, one is a Security Newsletter which talks about the latest threats, scams, personal stories from Vipre users etc.  The other is a Windows Newsletter which talks about how to fix problems with Windows and so on, 2 very worthwhile publications for reference at least in my view.


On 10/10/2011, at 1:46 AM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:

> Hello everybody
> 
> We are now in the process of setting up a couple of machines running Windows. What do people recommend for system security and antivirus? We've had an Eset Smart Security licence for the last 4 years but is expires later this month and we are trying to decide whether to renew it or go for another solution.
> 
> Recommendations, suggestions, explanations, justifications, thoughts and opinions welcome. Thank you.
> 
> Lynne
> 
> 
> =======================================
> 
> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free
> 
> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat
> 
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> 
> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html
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From roger.firman at btinternet.com  Sun Oct  9 16:15:22 2011
From: roger.firman at btinternet.com (Roger Firman)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2011 16:15:22 +0100
Subject: Windows Antivirus and security applications
In-Reply-To: <D93A3AE7-C3A0-49E6-8FA7-449C98FF7746@mac-access.net>
Message-ID: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAA+dUVQqKIdEKdWPCtWTXi7+KAAAAQAAAA2EepM47DOEyP/bd8TFfMvgEAAAAA@btinternet.com>

Dear Lynne,

You might want to investigate http://www.trendmicro.co.uk and see if the
software meets your needs.

As hardly needs saying, there are a wide range of products - some more
fashionable than others - but I do use this and find it works well.

I have also had experience of using Kaspersky which I recognise as being
a good product, however, I found it slowed down my machine so I switched
to Trend Micro.

Regards,

Roger.


From venables134 at btinternet.com  Sun Oct  9 17:17:02 2011
From: venables134 at btinternet.com (Daniel McGee)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2011 17:17:02 +0100
Subject: Windows Antivirus and security applications
In-Reply-To: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAA+dUVQqKIdEKdWPCtWTXi7+KAAAAQAAAA2EepM47DOEyP/bd8TFfMvgEAAAAA@btinternet.com>
References: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAA+dUVQqKIdEKdWPCtWTXi7+KAAAAQAAAA2EepM47DOEyP/bd8TFfMvgEAAAAA@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <D1CFC7718E3140A08D766AABCB475A3F@DanielPC>

Hi Lynne, Dan hear just want to say that the two programmes Chris mentioned 
I use as well.
I have never had a virus or whatever the different terms are yet with these 
two programmes. After all you can't beat the price. Them both being FREE!

Hope that helps.

Daniel

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Roger Firman" <roger.firman at btinternet.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 09, 2011 4:15 PM
To: "'Techno-Chat ... Technology Enthusiasm!'" <techno-chat at techno-chat.net>
Subject: RE: Windows Antivirus and security applications

> Dear Lynne,
>
> You might want to investigate http://www.trendmicro.co.uk and see if the
> software meets your needs.
>
> As hardly needs saying, there are a wide range of products - some more
> fashionable than others - but I do use this and find it works well.
>
> I have also had experience of using Kaspersky which I recognise as being
> a good product, however, I found it slowed down my machine so I switched
> to Trend Micro.
>
> Regards,
>
> Roger.
>
>
> =======================================
>
> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus 
> and worm-free
>
> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated 
> web pages located at
> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat
>
> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at 
> either of the following websites:
>
> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html
>
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> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
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> ---------------------------------------  


From lynne at mac-access.net  Sun Oct  9 17:36:06 2011
From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2011 17:36:06 +0100
Subject: Windows Antivirus and security applications
In-Reply-To: <4E91B86C.2000106@techno-chat.net>
References: <D93A3AE7-C3A0-49E6-8FA7-449C98FF7746@mac-access.net>
	<4E91B86C.2000106@techno-chat.net>
Message-ID: <1F5500CC-948E-4484-B044-D5836CA69B1C@mac-access.net>

Hi Chris

I'm sorry; I should have made this more clear. We want to stay well away from Microsoft add-onds, and we're moving away from Eset Smart Security if possible. Eset is fine as far as it goes; but they're quite expensive for what it is.

We never go for the free versions of anything, to be honest. There is, we find, always a catch with those. And that is perfectly understandable.

Thank you for the suggestions though.

Lynne

On 9 Oct 2011, at 16:06, chris hallsworth wrote:

Ok I would go for Microsoft Security Essentials as your antivirus and Malwarebytes Antimalware as your second line of defense. These are both free and fully accessible applications. I can't see any other justification apart from that. If you want to renew your Eset license, that's fine. But I use this combination and they work great. In fact, I have paid for Malwarebytes Antimalware Pro simply because of the realtime protection and scheduler feature. But this one is up to you. The free version provides on demand scanning and updating. Hope this helps.

On 09/10/2011 15:46, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:
> Hello everybody
> 
> We are now in the process of setting up a couple of machines running Windows. What do people recommend for system security and antivirus? We've had an Eset Smart Security licence for the last 4 years but is expires later this month and we are trying to decide whether to renew it or go for another solution.
> 
> Recommendations, suggestions, explanations, justifications, thoughts and opinions welcome. Thank you.
> 
> Lynne
> 
> 
> =======================================
> 
> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free
> 
> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat
> 
> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites:
> 
> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html
> 
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> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
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---------------------------------------


From chris.hallsworth at techno-chat.net  Sun Oct  9 17:41:22 2011
From: chris.hallsworth at techno-chat.net (chris hallsworth)
Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2011 17:41:22 +0100
Subject: Windows Antivirus and security applications
In-Reply-To: <1F5500CC-948E-4484-B044-D5836CA69B1C@mac-access.net>
References: <D93A3AE7-C3A0-49E6-8FA7-449C98FF7746@mac-access.net>	<4E91B86C.2000106@techno-chat.net>
	<1F5500CC-948E-4484-B044-D5836CA69B1C@mac-access.net>
Message-ID: <4E91CEB2.6030906@techno-chat.net>

Really? No argument here but I've had absolutely no problems with the 
free stuff. Oh well, hope you find a good solution very soon.

On 09/10/2011 17:36, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:
> Hi Chris
>
> I'm sorry; I should have made this more clear. We want to stay well away from Microsoft add-onds, and we're moving away from Eset Smart Security if possible. Eset is fine as far as it goes; but they're quite expensive for what it is.
>
> We never go for the free versions of anything, to be honest. There is, we find, always a catch with those. And that is perfectly understandable.
>
> Thank you for the suggestions though.
>
> Lynne
>
> On 9 Oct 2011, at 16:06, chris hallsworth wrote:
>
> Ok I would go for Microsoft Security Essentials as your antivirus and Malwarebytes Antimalware as your second line of defense. These are both free and fully accessible applications. I can't see any other justification apart from that. If you want to renew your Eset license, that's fine. But I use this combination and they work great. In fact, I have paid for Malwarebytes Antimalware Pro simply because of the realtime protection and scheduler feature. But this one is up to you. The free version provides on demand scanning and updating. Hope this helps.
>
> On 09/10/2011 15:46, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:
>> Hello everybody
>>
>> We are now in the process of setting up a couple of machines running Windows. What do people recommend for system security and antivirus? We've had an Eset Smart Security licence for the last 4 years but is expires later this month and we are trying to decide whether to renew it or go for another solution.
>>
>> Recommendations, suggestions, explanations, justifications, thoughts and opinions welcome. Thank you.
>>
>> Lynne
>>
>>
>> =======================================
>>
>> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free
>>
>> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat
>>
>> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites:
>>
>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html
>>
>> Or:
>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat at techno-chat.net>
>> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat at techno-chat.net/maillist.xml>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------
>>
>
> =======================================
>
> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free
>
> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat
>
> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites:
>
> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html
>
> Or:
> <http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat at techno-chat.net>
> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
> <http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat at techno-chat.net/maillist.xml>
>
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>
>
> =======================================
>
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>
> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
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>

From lynne at mac-access.net  Sun Oct  9 17:44:37 2011
From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2011 17:44:37 +0100
Subject: Windows Antivirus and security applications
In-Reply-To: <6C9999C8-60EE-4A3D-B3A2-5DE46CBE1548@internode.on.net>
References: <D93A3AE7-C3A0-49E6-8FA7-449C98FF7746@mac-access.net>
	<6C9999C8-60EE-4A3D-B3A2-5DE46CBE1548@internode.on.net>
Message-ID: <A70E436D-26F0-4F76-92AD-126F8DF4AF78@mac-access.net>

Hello Dane

I believe it was Gordon who pointed this out to you about the tracking and session cookies issue in the first place.  But you're absolutely right, Eset doesn't even come close to a full security system for that reason. I am given to understand that cookies are amongst the most dangerous pieces of malware you could have on your system because they are platform-independent and they can sneak in through the back door and your browser wouldn't know them from any other cookies. That's what I've been given to understand anyway.

As for Vipre, we have a license for the enterprise version but it never worked for us. So we'll be looking at it but we'll be very very careful before we buy.

Lynne

On 9 Oct 2011, at 16:06, Dane Trethowan wrote:

I hope you get some feedback on this topic, here's my recommendations for what they're worth.

I too! have an Eset licence however I will not be renewing it this year, the software doesn't scan for cookies and actually its known that the people at Eset don't think tracking cookies a serious enough issue to be concerned with so I've ditched Eset and switched to Vipre Anti Virus Premium.

The "Premium" edition has everything most people would want including a thorough security scan which includes spyware and cookies, excellent firewall and is more accessible than Eset has ever been though Eset isn't as bad as some of the other offerings out there such as F-Secure which I used for a while.

Like Eset there is no difference in performance of machines whilst Vipre is running and Vipre like Eset scans code in the background so you only know that the Anti Virus software is running if it requires your attention for one reason or another.

1 subscription fee allows you to put Vipre Anti virus on as many computers as you require, there's also a "Lifetime" subscription which I will be investigating myself.

Your subscription entitles you to free newsletters if you wish to use them, one is a Security Newsletter which talks about the latest threats, scams, personal stories from Vipre users etc.  The other is a Windows Newsletter which talks about how to fix problems with Windows and so on, 2 very worthwhile publications for reference at least in my view.


From lynne at mac-access.net  Sun Oct  9 17:46:59 2011
From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2011 17:46:59 +0100
Subject: Windows Antivirus and security applications
In-Reply-To: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAA+dUVQqKIdEKdWPCtWTXi7+KAAAAQAAAA2EepM47DOEyP/bd8TFfMvgEAAAAA@btinternet.com>
References: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAA+dUVQqKIdEKdWPCtWTXi7+KAAAAQAAAA2EepM47DOEyP/bd8TFfMvgEAAAAA@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <ED55CC9A-BA26-44CD-A2B4-70812D726915@mac-access.net>

Hello Roger.

Thank you, I will investigate this as well.

Lynne

On 9 Oct 2011, at 16:15, Roger Firman wrote:

Dear Lynne,

You might want to investigate http://www.trendmicro.co.uk and see if the
software meets your needs.

As hardly needs saying, there are a wide range of products - some more
fashionable than others - but I do use this and find it works well.

I have also had experience of using Kaspersky which I recognise as being
a good product, however, I found it slowed down my machine so I switched
to Trend Micro.

Regards,

Roger.


=======================================

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---------------------------------------


From lynne at mac-access.net  Sun Oct  9 18:07:30 2011
From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2011 18:07:30 +0100
Subject: Windows Antivirus and security applications
In-Reply-To: <4E91CEB2.6030906@techno-chat.net>
References: <D93A3AE7-C3A0-49E6-8FA7-449C98FF7746@mac-access.net>	<4E91B86C.2000106@techno-chat.net>
	<1F5500CC-948E-4484-B044-D5836CA69B1C@mac-access.net>
	<4E91CEB2.6030906@techno-chat.net>
Message-ID: <A8CA2FE9-7875-43FB-B909-87C54204E555@mac-access.net>

Hello Chris

Let me tell you what puts us off Microsoft's products. They frequently covertly collect your personal data as in Outlook Express etc. Many people don't realise what's going on behind the scenes but it's been proven by security experts, (Steve Gibson, for example), that these free Ms products are not all people think they are.

There is an old saying, and it's still true today; you get nothing for nothing. If a programme in the Windows world is free, and it's released by a big company such as Microsoft, there' usually; if not always a catch. We have no intentions of falling into that trap.

Have you noticed how your email address mysteriously finds its way to spammers and advertisers? Even though you haven't given it to them yourself, and you've often never even heard of the company? Well, there's your proof. People's address book data with Outlook is being covertly collected and distributed.

That is why we won't use anything Microsoft and we totally agree with Dane who wisely opts not to use those product.

Lynne

On 9 Oct 2011, at 17:41, chris hallsworth wrote:

Really? No argument here but I've had absolutely no problems with the free stuff. Oh well, hope you find a good solution very soon.

On 09/10/2011 17:36, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:
> Hi Chris
> 
> I'm sorry; I should have made this more clear. We want to stay well away from Microsoft add-onds, and we're moving away from Eset Smart Security if possible. Eset is fine as far as it goes; but they're quite expensive for what it is.
> 
> We never go for the free versions of anything, to be honest. There is, we find, always a catch with those. And that is perfectly understandable.
> 
> Thank you for the suggestions though.
> 
> Lynne
> 
> On 9 Oct 2011, at 16:06, chris hallsworth wrote:
> 
> Ok I would go for Microsoft Security Essentials as your antivirus and Malwarebytes Antimalware as your second line of defense. These are both free and fully accessible applications. I can't see any other justification apart from that. If you want to renew your Eset license, that's fine. But I use this combination and they work great. In fact, I have paid for Malwarebytes Antimalware Pro simply because of the realtime protection and scheduler feature. But this one is up to you. The free version provides on demand scanning and updating. Hope this helps.
> 
> On 09/10/2011 15:46, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:
>> Hello everybody
>> 
>> We are now in the process of setting up a couple of machines running Windows. What do people recommend for system security and antivirus? We've had an Eset Smart Security licence for the last 4 years but is expires later this month and we are trying to decide whether to renew it or go for another solution.
>> 
>> Recommendations, suggestions, explanations, justifications, thoughts and opinions welcome. Thank you.
>> 
>> Lynne
>> 
>> 
>> =======================================
>> 
>> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free
>> 
>> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat
>> 
>> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites:
>> 
>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html
>> 
>> Or:
>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat at techno-chat.net>
>> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat at techno-chat.net/maillist.xml>
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>> 
> 
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> 
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> 
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From lynne at mac-access.net  Sun Oct  9 18:38:05 2011
From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2011 18:38:05 +0100
Subject: Vipre Premium AntiVirus
Message-ID: <991B89BC-1048-433D-93A0-3D766CFC004C@mac-access.net>

Hello everybody

Well; I hope I've made the right choice. After reading the blurb on various sites and after listening to the good folks on Techno-Chat, I have just bought us an unlimited PC's lifetime subscription to Vipre Premium antivirus. I decided that the price would be worth while because over 4 or more years we would have paid out more than the cost of the lifetime licence. Anyway I like things that are forever, rather than a 1-year sub subscription or something.

So that's that, it's done. Now all I have to do is start downloading and installing.

Lynne



From grtdane at internode.on.net  Sun Oct  9 18:48:50 2011
From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 04:48:50 +1100
Subject: Windows Antivirus and security applications
In-Reply-To: <A70E436D-26F0-4F76-92AD-126F8DF4AF78@mac-access.net>
References: <D93A3AE7-C3A0-49E6-8FA7-449C98FF7746@mac-access.net>
	<6C9999C8-60EE-4A3D-B3A2-5DE46CBE1548@internode.on.net>
	<A70E436D-26F0-4F76-92AD-126F8DF4AF78@mac-access.net>
Message-ID: <61D4830B-5980-4D7D-B409-71681F7953BF@internode.on.net>

Yep, I had a licence for the Vipre Enterprise version, I had been warned against buying that actually by someone else.  I could never get it to work either so I contacted Vipre Customer Support, told them of my error of purchasing the wrong version and they had no hesitation in refunding me the purchase cost and sending me a direct URL for the purchase of Vipre Anti Virus Premium and that's what I did <smile>.

You're absolutely right about cookies and their danger is very much under stated and under estimated when it comes to compremising security, its suggested a lot nowadays that one should actually set one's browser to "Clear" one's browsing history, cache etc when the browser is closed, yep that's how seriously the issue of Cookies is taken.


On 10/10/2011, at 3:44 AM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:

> Hello Dane
> 
> I believe it was Gordon who pointed this out to you about the tracking and session cookies issue in the first place.  But you're absolutely right, Eset doesn't even come close to a full security system for that reason. I am given to understand that cookies are amongst the most dangerous pieces of malware you could have on your system because they are platform-independent and they can sneak in through the back door and your browser wouldn't know them from any other cookies. That's what I've been given to understand anyway.
> 
> As for Vipre, we have a license for the enterprise version but it never worked for us. So we'll be looking at it but we'll be very very careful before we buy.
> 
> Lynne
> 
> On 9 Oct 2011, at 16:06, Dane Trethowan wrote:
> 
> I hope you get some feedback on this topic, here's my recommendations for what they're worth.
> 
> I too! have an Eset licence however I will not be renewing it this year, the software doesn't scan for cookies and actually its known that the people at Eset don't think tracking cookies a serious enough issue to be concerned with so I've ditched Eset and switched to Vipre Anti Virus Premium.
> 
> The "Premium" edition has everything most people would want including a thorough security scan which includes spyware and cookies, excellent firewall and is more accessible than Eset has ever been though Eset isn't as bad as some of the other offerings out there such as F-Secure which I used for a while.
> 
> Like Eset there is no difference in performance of machines whilst Vipre is running and Vipre like Eset scans code in the background so you only know that the Anti Virus software is running if it requires your attention for one reason or another.
> 
> 1 subscription fee allows you to put Vipre Anti virus on as many computers as you require, there's also a "Lifetime" subscription which I will be investigating myself.
> 
> Your subscription entitles you to free newsletters if you wish to use them, one is a Security Newsletter which talks about the latest threats, scams, personal stories from Vipre users etc.  The other is a Windows Newsletter which talks about how to fix problems with Windows and so on, 2 very worthwhile publications for reference at least in my view.
> 
> 
> =======================================
> 
> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free
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From grtdane at internode.on.net  Sun Oct  9 18:52:40 2011
From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 04:52:40 +1100
Subject: Windows Antivirus and security applications
In-Reply-To: <A8CA2FE9-7875-43FB-B909-87C54204E555@mac-access.net>
References: <D93A3AE7-C3A0-49E6-8FA7-449C98FF7746@mac-access.net>	<4E91B86C.2000106@techno-chat.net>
	<1F5500CC-948E-4484-B044-D5836CA69B1C@mac-access.net>
	<4E91CEB2.6030906@techno-chat.net>
	<A8CA2FE9-7875-43FB-B909-87C54204E555@mac-access.net>
Message-ID: <15942E02-F0E6-4869-BC76-0892E4A85BF0@internode.on.net>

I've heard the Microsoft Anti Virus software is very accessible but given what I've written in a previous message I have to ask the question, does Microsoft Defender or whatever its called look out for such things as tracking Cookies and the like? Now I'm not saying the software doesn't but my betting is that it probably doesn't as so many other so-called security suites do not including AVG. but at least AVG Anti Virus do admit that the free version is exactly that, both very free and very basic <smile>, I know people who have upgraded to AVG Pro and they seem to have all the scanning and repair/security tools at their disposal but the only problem is the accessibility of the software I'm told.


On 10/10/2011, at 4:07 AM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:

> Hello Chris
> 
> Let me tell you what puts us off Microsoft's products. They frequently covertly collect your personal data as in Outlook Express etc. Many people don't realise what's going on behind the scenes but it's been proven by security experts, (Steve Gibson, for example), that these free Ms products are not all people think they are.
> 
> There is an old saying, and it's still true today; you get nothing for nothing. If a programme in the Windows world is free, and it's released by a big company such as Microsoft, there' usually; if not always a catch. We have no intentions of falling into that trap.
> 
> Have you noticed how your email address mysteriously finds its way to spammers and advertisers? Even though you haven't given it to them yourself, and you've often never even heard of the company? Well, there's your proof. People's address book data with Outlook is being covertly collected and distributed.
> 
> That is why we won't use anything Microsoft and we totally agree with Dane who wisely opts not to use those product.
> 
> Lynne
> 
> On 9 Oct 2011, at 17:41, chris hallsworth wrote:
> 
> Really? No argument here but I've had absolutely no problems with the free stuff. Oh well, hope you find a good solution very soon.
> 
> On 09/10/2011 17:36, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:
>> Hi Chris
>> 
>> I'm sorry; I should have made this more clear. We want to stay well away from Microsoft add-onds, and we're moving away from Eset Smart Security if possible. Eset is fine as far as it goes; but they're quite expensive for what it is.
>> 
>> We never go for the free versions of anything, to be honest. There is, we find, always a catch with those. And that is perfectly understandable.
>> 
>> Thank you for the suggestions though.
>> 
>> Lynne
>> 
>> On 9 Oct 2011, at 16:06, chris hallsworth wrote:
>> 
>> Ok I would go for Microsoft Security Essentials as your antivirus and Malwarebytes Antimalware as your second line of defense. These are both free and fully accessible applications. I can't see any other justification apart from that. If you want to renew your Eset license, that's fine. But I use this combination and they work great. In fact, I have paid for Malwarebytes Antimalware Pro simply because of the realtime protection and scheduler feature. But this one is up to you. The free version provides on demand scanning and updating. Hope this helps.
>> 
>> On 09/10/2011 15:46, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:
>>> Hello everybody
>>> 
>>> We are now in the process of setting up a couple of machines running Windows. What do people recommend for system security and antivirus? We've had an Eset Smart Security licence for the last 4 years but is expires later this month and we are trying to decide whether to renew it or go for another solution.
>>> 
>>> Recommendations, suggestions, explanations, justifications, thoughts and opinions welcome. Thank you.
>>> 
>>> Lynne
>>> 
>>> 
>>> =======================================
>>> 
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>>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html
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> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
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From grtdane at internode.on.net  Sun Oct  9 18:56:53 2011
From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 04:56:53 +1100
Subject: Vipre Premium AntiVirus
In-Reply-To: <991B89BC-1048-433D-93A0-3D766CFC004C@mac-access.net>
References: <991B89BC-1048-433D-93A0-3D766CFC004C@mac-access.net>
Message-ID: <FC2EC41E-9D56-454B-89E4-C12DAE714972@internode.on.net>

If you start downloading and installing the software then you'll have it up and running in a matter of minutes <smile>.

Yes, I like the idea of a lifetime's subscription which is why I'll be sticking with Vipre for some time, added to that is the willingness of the author to fix problems, make the software accessibile, the excellent partner offers that come up from time-to-time, the informative security newsletters and so on, makes the customers feel part of the product.

Not that you'll need it but the Vipre tech support also offers in depth solutions if your system is severely hampered by a virus attack and you can't yourself get around the problem and as you're now a "Vipre User", you'll be notified of this extra service.


On 10/10/2011, at 4:38 AM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:

> Hello everybody
> 
> Well; I hope I've made the right choice. After reading the blurb on various sites and after listening to the good folks on Techno-Chat, I have just bought us an unlimited PC's lifetime subscription to Vipre Premium antivirus. I decided that the price would be worth while because over 4 or more years we would have paid out more than the cost of the lifetime licence. Anyway I like things that are forever, rather than a 1-year sub subscription or something.
> 
> So that's that, it's done. Now all I have to do is start downloading and installing.
> 
> Lynne
> 
> 
> 
> =======================================
> 
> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free
> 
> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat
> 
> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites:
> 
> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html
> 
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> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
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From chris.hallsworth at techno-chat.net  Sun Oct  9 19:12:25 2011
From: chris.hallsworth at techno-chat.net (chris hallsworth)
Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2011 19:12:25 +0100
Subject: Windows Antivirus and security applications
In-Reply-To: <A8CA2FE9-7875-43FB-B909-87C54204E555@mac-access.net>
References: <D93A3AE7-C3A0-49E6-8FA7-449C98FF7746@mac-access.net>	<4E91B86C.2000106@techno-chat.net>	<1F5500CC-948E-4484-B044-D5836CA69B1C@mac-access.net>	<4E91CEB2.6030906@techno-chat.net>
	<A8CA2FE9-7875-43FB-B909-87C54204E555@mac-access.net>
Message-ID: <4E91E409.1050809@techno-chat.net>

Ar ok, very interesting and to the point. Well I use Thunderbird and I 
have a Googlemail account. Fortunately most of the spam goes into the 
spam folder on the web, about 99% of the time. Very interesting though 
and thanks. Enjoy Viper, which does sound good and that's interesting 
they do a lifetime license of the product. Cool.

On 09/10/2011 18:07, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:
> Hello Chris
>
> Let me tell you what puts us off Microsoft's products. They frequently covertly collect your personal data as in Outlook Express etc. Many people don't realise what's going on behind the scenes but it's been proven by security experts, (Steve Gibson, for example), that these free Ms products are not all people think they are.
>
> There is an old saying, and it's still true today; you get nothing for nothing. If a programme in the Windows world is free, and it's released by a big company such as Microsoft, there' usually; if not always a catch. We have no intentions of falling into that trap.
>
> Have you noticed how your email address mysteriously finds its way to spammers and advertisers? Even though you haven't given it to them yourself, and you've often never even heard of the company? Well, there's your proof. People's address book data with Outlook is being covertly collected and distributed.
>
> That is why we won't use anything Microsoft and we totally agree with Dane who wisely opts not to use those product.
>
> Lynne
>
> On 9 Oct 2011, at 17:41, chris hallsworth wrote:
>
> Really? No argument here but I've had absolutely no problems with the free stuff. Oh well, hope you find a good solution very soon.
>
> On 09/10/2011 17:36, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:
>> Hi Chris
>>
>> I'm sorry; I should have made this more clear. We want to stay well away from Microsoft add-onds, and we're moving away from Eset Smart Security if possible. Eset is fine as far as it goes; but they're quite expensive for what it is.
>>
>> We never go for the free versions of anything, to be honest. There is, we find, always a catch with those. And that is perfectly understandable.
>>
>> Thank you for the suggestions though.
>>
>> Lynne
>>
>> On 9 Oct 2011, at 16:06, chris hallsworth wrote:
>>
>> Ok I would go for Microsoft Security Essentials as your antivirus and Malwarebytes Antimalware as your second line of defense. These are both free and fully accessible applications. I can't see any other justification apart from that. If you want to renew your Eset license, that's fine. But I use this combination and they work great. In fact, I have paid for Malwarebytes Antimalware Pro simply because of the realtime protection and scheduler feature. But this one is up to you. The free version provides on demand scanning and updating. Hope this helps.
>>
>> On 09/10/2011 15:46, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:
>>> Hello everybody
>>>
>>> We are now in the process of setting up a couple of machines running Windows. What do people recommend for system security and antivirus? We've had an Eset Smart Security licence for the last 4 years but is expires later this month and we are trying to decide whether to renew it or go for another solution.
>>>
>>> Recommendations, suggestions, explanations, justifications, thoughts and opinions welcome. Thank you.
>>>
>>> Lynne
>>>
>>>
>>> =======================================
>>>
>>> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free
>>>
>>> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
>>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat
>>>
>>> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites:
>>>
>>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html
>>>
>>> Or:
>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat at techno-chat.net>
>>> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat at techno-chat.net/maillist.xml>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------
>>>
>>
>> =======================================
>>
>> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free
>>
>> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat
>>
>> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites:
>>
>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html
>>
>> Or:
>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat at techno-chat.net>
>> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
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>>
>> ---------------------------------------
>>
>>
>> =======================================
>>
>> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free
>>
>> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat
>>
>> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites:
>>
>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html
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>> Or:
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>> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
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>>
>
> =======================================
>
> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free
>
> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat
>
> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites:
>
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> Or:
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> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
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>
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>
>
> =======================================
>
> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free
>
> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat
>
> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites:
>
> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html
>
> Or:
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> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
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From lynne at mac-access.net  Sun Oct  9 22:37:47 2011
From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2011 22:37:47 +0100
Subject: Cookies [Not The Chocolate Chip Type]
In-Reply-To: <61D4830B-5980-4D7D-B409-71681F7953BF@internode.on.net>
References: <D93A3AE7-C3A0-49E6-8FA7-449C98FF7746@mac-access.net>
	<6C9999C8-60EE-4A3D-B3A2-5DE46CBE1548@internode.on.net>
	<A70E436D-26F0-4F76-92AD-126F8DF4AF78@mac-access.net>
	<61D4830B-5980-4D7D-B409-71681F7953BF@internode.on.net>
Message-ID: <C13A527A-3145-44FF-A2A7-78CFDFE34293@mac-access.net>

hello Dane

Actually, this is one reason why Gordon is keen to get 1Password working properly. We are all to aware of the problems and dangers that cookies can cause and, if we had a reliable mechanism for log-ins at sites we regularly visit, we would definitely take steps to disable cookies and things. We use session cookies with our secure file manager. But they are not malicious. They are used for the soul purpose of storing log-in data throughout the session. If somebody chooses to remember their log-in credentials by checking the check box on our sight, that's a different matter. But even then our cookies are not malicious.

But the point here is that we give people the option; we certainly do not, and would not use any malicious code whatsoever and we track nobody and nothing. But I am getting off the point.

Since it seems that we are going to have to use Windows a little bit here, it's good to be protected against unwanted junk. So I opted to make the investment. I am a firm believer that "you gets what you pays for". Free software, with the obvious exception of that which is written by enthusiasts, usually brings catches. For instance there was a bit of a hu-hah recently about Microsoft's Windows Live. Apparently Microsoft were using that to collect information about the machine, its mail activity and address books.

We really don't like Outlook, and the Express version should be banned! I can't comment about the later versions but Express is probably the biggest security threat which was legitimised that ever existed in the world of I.T.

Lynne

On 9 Oct 2011, at 18:48, Dane Trethowan wrote:

Yep, I had a licence for the Vipre Enterprise version, I had been warned against buying that actually by someone else.  I could never get it to work either so I contacted Vipre Customer Support, told them of my error of purchasing the wrong version and they had no hesitation in refunding me the purchase cost and sending me a direct URL for the purchase of Vipre Anti Virus Premium and that's what I did <smile>.

You're absolutely right about cookies and their danger is very much under stated and under estimated when it comes to compremising security, its suggested a lot nowadays that one should actually set one's browser to "Clear" one's browsing history, cache etc when the browser is closed, yep that's how seriously the issue of Cookies is taken.



From lynne at mac-access.net  Sun Oct  9 22:39:50 2011
From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2011 22:39:50 +0100
Subject: Microsoft Windows Defender
In-Reply-To: <15942E02-F0E6-4869-BC76-0892E4A85BF0@internode.on.net>
References: <D93A3AE7-C3A0-49E6-8FA7-449C98FF7746@mac-access.net>	<4E91B86C.2000106@techno-chat.net>
	<1F5500CC-948E-4484-B044-D5836CA69B1C@mac-access.net>
	<4E91CEB2.6030906@techno-chat.net>
	<A8CA2FE9-7875-43FB-B909-87C54204E555@mac-access.net>
	<15942E02-F0E6-4869-BC76-0892E4A85BF0@internode.on.net>
Message-ID: <82F72DEC-23B6-459E-821B-0CC6F9C22697@mac-access.net>

Hello Dane

Windows Defender is just a very basic basic utility. I wouldn't rely upon it if I were you. Have a look in some of the security forums and you soon learn about this stuff.

Lynne

On 9 Oct 2011, at 18:52, Dane Trethowan wrote:

I've heard the Microsoft Anti Virus software is very accessible but given what I've written in a previous message I have to ask the question, does Microsoft Defender or whatever its called look out for such things as tracking Cookies and the like? Now I'm not saying the software doesn't but my betting is that it probably doesn't as so many other so-called security suites do not including AVG. but at least AVG Anti Virus do admit that the free version is exactly that, both very free and very basic <smile>, I know people who have upgraded to AVG Pro and they seem to have all the scanning and repair/security tools at their disposal but the only problem is the accessibility of the software I'm told.


On 10/10/2011, at 4:07 AM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:

> Hello Chris
> 
> Let me tell you what puts us off Microsoft's products. They frequently covertly collect your personal data as in Outlook Express etc. Many people don't realise what's going on behind the scenes but it's been proven by security experts, (Steve Gibson, for example), that these free Ms products are not all people think they are.
> 
> There is an old saying, and it's still true today; you get nothing for nothing. If a programme in the Windows world is free, and it's released by a big company such as Microsoft, there' usually; if not always a catch. We have no intentions of falling into that trap.
> 
> Have you noticed how your email address mysteriously finds its way to spammers and advertisers? Even though you haven't given it to them yourself, and you've often never even heard of the company? Well, there's your proof. People's address book data with Outlook is being covertly collected and distributed.
> 
> That is why we won't use anything Microsoft and we totally agree with Dane who wisely opts not to use those product.
> 
> Lynne
> 
> On 9 Oct 2011, at 17:41, chris hallsworth wrote:
> 
> Really? No argument here but I've had absolutely no problems with the free stuff. Oh well, hope you find a good solution very soon.
> 
> On 09/10/2011 17:36, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:
>> Hi Chris
>> 
>> I'm sorry; I should have made this more clear. We want to stay well away from Microsoft add-onds, and we're moving away from Eset Smart Security if possible. Eset is fine as far as it goes; but they're quite expensive for what it is.
>> 
>> We never go for the free versions of anything, to be honest. There is, we find, always a catch with those. And that is perfectly understandable.
>> 
>> Thank you for the suggestions though.
>> 
>> Lynne
>> 
>> On 9 Oct 2011, at 16:06, chris hallsworth wrote:
>> 
>> Ok I would go for Microsoft Security Essentials as your antivirus and Malwarebytes Antimalware as your second line of defense. These are both free and fully accessible applications. I can't see any other justification apart from that. If you want to renew your Eset license, that's fine. But I use this combination and they work great. In fact, I have paid for Malwarebytes Antimalware Pro simply because of the realtime protection and scheduler feature. But this one is up to you. The free version provides on demand scanning and updating. Hope this helps.
>> 
>> On 09/10/2011 15:46, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:
>>> Hello everybody
>>> 
>>> We are now in the process of setting up a couple of machines running Windows. What do people recommend for system security and antivirus? We've had an Eset Smart Security licence for the last 4 years but is expires later this month and we are trying to decide whether to renew it or go for another solution.
>>> 
>>> Recommendations, suggestions, explanations, justifications, thoughts and opinions welcome. Thank you.
>>> 
>>> Lynne
>>> 
>>> 
>>> =======================================
>>> 
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From lynne at mac-access.net  Sun Oct  9 22:45:55 2011
From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2011 22:45:55 +0100
Subject: Vipre Premium AntiVirus
In-Reply-To: <FC2EC41E-9D56-454B-89E4-C12DAE714972@internode.on.net>
References: <991B89BC-1048-433D-93A0-3D766CFC004C@mac-access.net>
	<FC2EC41E-9D56-454B-89E4-C12DAE714972@internode.on.net>
Message-ID: <2620E7D8-F557-4837-BD32-FAD540589318@mac-access.net>

Hello Dane & all

In our case, it's unlikely that we're going to be hit that severely. Although our email servers are not Windows, we still scan for viruses and block anything which is detected. And I'm bound to say that since we put this mechanism on line, we haven't had a single report of a virus from any of our clients. We, Gordon and I, see the blocked message logs. We send the recipient a notice automatically telling them that we've blocked a virus that was sent to them. All the same, we don't encourage people to rely on that; we are not arrogant enough to assume that just because we do scans. nothing can get through. We try our very best, but we're only human after all. :)

But anyway, I'm going to install the software on our newly recovered NetBook in a minute. I will post another message to the group shortly about that actually because it highlights another excellent Windows product.

On 9 Oct 2011, at 18:56, Dane Trethowan wrote:

If you start downloading and installing the software then you'll have it up and running in a matter of minutes <smile>.

Yes, I like the idea of a lifetime's subscription which is why I'll be sticking with Vipre for some time, added to that is the willingness of the author to fix problems, make the software accessibile, the excellent partner offers that come up from time-to-time, the informative security newsletters and so on, makes the customers feel part of the product.

Not that you'll need it but the Vipre tech support also offers in depth solutions if your system is severely hampered by a virus attack and you can't yourself get around the problem and as you're now a "Vipre User", you'll be notified of this extra service.



From lynne at mac-access.net  Sun Oct  9 22:49:19 2011
From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2011 22:49:19 +0100
Subject: Windows Antivirus and security applications
In-Reply-To: <4E91E409.1050809@techno-chat.net>
References: <D93A3AE7-C3A0-49E6-8FA7-449C98FF7746@mac-access.net>	<4E91B86C.2000106@techno-chat.net>	<1F5500CC-948E-4484-B044-D5836CA69B1C@mac-access.net>	<4E91CEB2.6030906@techno-chat.net>
	<A8CA2FE9-7875-43FB-B909-87C54204E555@mac-access.net>
	<4E91E409.1050809@techno-chat.net>
Message-ID: <BDEE355E-1439-4513-8FFB-0EEAD1BD930C@mac-access.net>

Hello Chris

Can you show me a spam message which has hit your inbox on your Techno-Chat.net account? :)

Lyne

On 9 Oct 2011, at 19:12, chris hallsworth wrote:

Ar ok, very interesting and to the point. Well I use Thunderbird and I have a Googlemail account. Fortunately most of the spam goes into the spam folder on the web, about 99% of the time. Very interesting though and thanks. Enjoy Viper, which does sound good and that's interesting they do a lifetime license of the product. Cool.


From lynne at mac-access.net  Sun Oct  9 23:07:58 2011
From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2011 23:07:58 +0100
Subject: Another excellent Windows programme
Message-ID: <FB7F343C-0F6E-4883-8C31-25962ED343BB@mac-access.net>

Hello everybody

I know there are those on list who think that Gordon and I are very anti-Microsoft and anti-Windows. Actually that's not completely true; we recognise that there are advantages to the OS, just as there are disadvantages and advantages to Mac OS X.

Anyway, recently our little NetBook fell victim to the old Windows problems and it crashed; complaining about some sort of hardware change that had apparently been made by some invisible person.

No; this wasn't a hacker attack. The change never even occurred; I know that because at the time its network was totally disabled.

Anyway, after a lon time sitting on the shelf in broken mode, I eventually found the time to sit down with Gordon and look at the machine. We decided to do a little more digging; and went into the system BIOS, and turned off the Asus "Boot Booster" function. Then we rebooted the machine.

The difference was startling. Instead of turning on the machine and being in Windows within about 10 seconds, the machine booted from a truly cold reset condition. This time, up popped the menu which was missing in Boot Booster mode, that of RollBAck RX professional.

Once this menu appeared, it allowed me to "Roll Back" the machine to a time when Windows was fixed, and running well. In a matter of about 5 minutes, our system was rolled back and running perfectly again.

RollBack RX available from <http://www.horizondatasys.com> (if memory serves) is one of the best Windows products on the market in the field of disaster recovery.

I would go so far as to say that no machine should be without RollBAck if it runs Windows. It makes Microsoft's feeble System Restore look pathetic, because System Restore cannot correct pre-boot problems, as RollBAck can. If your boot config goes wrong and you only have System Restore for your defence, you could well be in for a long restore job.

RollBack Pro RX is a product we've used for a very very long time, and we've recommended to others on this list and I know that at least one person is using it.

Previously, Gordon tells me he had a product called "GoBAck" by Roxio. But Symantec bought that and promptly did away with it so that it wouldn't impede their sales of Norton Utilities.

Long story; but in Windows XP SP2 and later, GoBAck would no longer function and so that was the end of that idea. But Rollback remains to this day as valuable a tool as it was 5 years ago when, apparently, Gordon started using it.

Thanks to that software our NetBook was up and running again within about 5 minutes of being booted into the RollBack menu. Rollback does have a GUI which you can use within Windows as well. That's another nice thing about it. It's 100% accessible. The boot menu is actually quite easy for a blind person as well; you just hold down the Home key when your system boots. Then, if you want to restore your system, just cursor down once and press Enter.

A list of restore points comes up; with the latest snapshot at the top of the list. Just cursor down to the one you want and hit enter and off you go. If you only have one baseline restore point, it will be marked as "Installation", and is the only one you cannot delete. But all you have to do to roll back to it is to cursor down once or twice and then hit enter.

All in all, RollBAck RX Pro is well worth the money. It has saved my other half countless hours of re-installing over the years he's been using it.

Lynne



From chris.hallsworth at techno-chat.net  Sun Oct  9 23:13:40 2011
From: chris.hallsworth at techno-chat.net (chris hallsworth)
Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2011 23:13:40 +0100
Subject: Windows Antivirus and security applications
In-Reply-To: <BDEE355E-1439-4513-8FFB-0EEAD1BD930C@mac-access.net>
References: <D93A3AE7-C3A0-49E6-8FA7-449C98FF7746@mac-access.net>	<4E91B86C.2000106@techno-chat.net>	<1F5500CC-948E-4484-B044-D5836CA69B1C@mac-access.net>	<4E91CEB2.6030906@techno-chat.net>	<A8CA2FE9-7875-43FB-B909-87C54204E555@mac-access.net>	<4E91E409.1050809@techno-chat.net>
	<BDEE355E-1439-4513-8FFB-0EEAD1BD930C@mac-access.net>
Message-ID: <4E921C94.3060904@techno-chat.net>

I haven't got any spam here my friend. Sorry. This account is so far a 
clean sheet.

On 09/10/2011 22:49, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:
> Hello Chris
>
> Can you show me a spam message which has hit your inbox on your Techno-Chat.net account? :)
>
> Lyne
>
> On 9 Oct 2011, at 19:12, chris hallsworth wrote:
>
> Ar ok, very interesting and to the point. Well I use Thunderbird and I have a Googlemail account. Fortunately most of the spam goes into the spam folder on the web, about 99% of the time. Very interesting though and thanks. Enjoy Viper, which does sound good and that's interesting they do a lifetime license of the product. Cool.
>
>
> =======================================
>
> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free
>
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>
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>
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From support at techno-chat.net  Sun Oct  9 23:18:39 2011
From: support at techno-chat.net (Gordon & Lynne)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2011 23:18:39 +0100
Subject: Windows Antivirus and security applications
In-Reply-To: <4E921C94.3060904@techno-chat.net>
References: <D93A3AE7-C3A0-49E6-8FA7-449C98FF7746@mac-access.net>	<4E91B86C.2000106@techno-chat.net>	<1F5500CC-948E-4484-B044-D5836CA69B1C@mac-access.net>	<4E91CEB2.6030906@techno-chat.net>	<A8CA2FE9-7875-43FB-B909-87C54204E555@mac-access.net>	<4E91E409.1050809@techno-chat.net>
	<BDEE355E-1439-4513-8FFB-0EEAD1BD930C@mac-access.net>
	<4E921C94.3060904@techno-chat.net>
Message-ID: <79EEAF3A-42A4-4B87-905D-94869BBA7F8A@techno-chat.net>

Hello Chris

That was exactly my point! We do a great deal of work behind the scenes to protect you all from spam. Our spam assassin implementation is constantly learning when it encounters spam. We haven't seen any spam for ages. I'm sorry to say this, but you can't say that for Google Mail.

Lynne

On 9 Oct 2011, at 23:13, chris hallsworth wrote:

I haven't got any spam here my friend. Sorry. This account is so far a clean sheet.

On 09/10/2011 22:49, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:
> Hello Chris
> 
> Can you show me a spam message which has hit your inbox on your Techno-Chat.net account? :)
> 
> Lyne
> 
> On 9 Oct 2011, at 19:12, chris hallsworth wrote:
> 
> Ar ok, very interesting and to the point. Well I use Thunderbird and I have a Googlemail account. Fortunately most of the spam goes into the spam folder on the web, about 99% of the time. Very interesting though and thanks. Enjoy Viper, which does sound good and that's interesting they do a lifetime license of the product. Cool.
> 
> 
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From david.mclean at cox.net  Sun Oct  9 23:22:31 2011
From: david.mclean at cox.net (David McLean)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2011 18:22:31 -0400
Subject: Windows Antivirus and security applications
In-Reply-To: <6C9999C8-60EE-4A3D-B3A2-5DE46CBE1548@internode.on.net>
References: <D93A3AE7-C3A0-49E6-8FA7-449C98FF7746@mac-access.net>
	<6C9999C8-60EE-4A3D-B3A2-5DE46CBE1548@internode.on.net>
Message-ID: <BE65E40B-F466-4F5C-9047-5E3345E18F48@cox.net>

I'd agree with Chris and recommend Microsoft Security Essentials for anti-virus and Malware Bytes for anti-spyware.  I've been using them for between a year and two years now and they have worked well on my windows machines.
On Oct 9, 2011, at 11:06 AM, Dane Trethowan wrote:

> I hope you get some feedback on this topic, here's my recommendations for what they're worth.
> 
> I too! have an Eset licence however I will not be renewing it this year, the software doesn't scan for cookies and actually its known that the people at Eset don't think tracking cookies a serious enough issue to be concerned with so I've ditched Eset and switched to Vipre Anti Virus Premium.
> 
> The "Premium" edition has everything most people would want including a thorough security scan which includes spyware and cookies, excellent firewall and is more accessible than Eset has ever been though Eset isn't as bad as some of the other offerings out there such as F-Secure which I used for a while.
> 
> Like Eset there is no difference in performance of machines whilst Vipre is running and Vipre like Eset scans code in the background so you only know that the Anti Virus software is running if it requires your attention for one reason or another.
> 
> 1 subscription fee allows you to put Vipre Anti virus on as many computers as you require, there's also a "Lifetime" subscription which I will be investigating myself.
> 
> Your subscription entitles you to free newsletters if you wish to use them, one is a Security Newsletter which talks about the latest threats, scams, personal stories from Vipre users etc.  The other is a Windows Newsletter which talks about how to fix problems with Windows and so on, 2 very worthwhile publications for reference at least in my view.
> 
> 
> On 10/10/2011, at 1:46 AM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:
> 
>> Hello everybody
>> 
>> We are now in the process of setting up a couple of machines running Windows. What do people recommend for system security and antivirus? We've had an Eset Smart Security licence for the last 4 years but is expires later this month and we are trying to decide whether to renew it or go for another solution.
>> 
>> Recommendations, suggestions, explanations, justifications, thoughts and opinions welcome. Thank you.
>> 
>> Lynne
>> 
>> 
>> =======================================
>> 
>> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free
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From grtdane at internode.on.net  Mon Oct 10 00:07:28 2011
From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 10:07:28 +1100
Subject: Cookies [Not The Chocolate Chip Type]
In-Reply-To: <C13A527A-3145-44FF-A2A7-78CFDFE34293@mac-access.net>
References: <D93A3AE7-C3A0-49E6-8FA7-449C98FF7746@mac-access.net>
	<6C9999C8-60EE-4A3D-B3A2-5DE46CBE1548@internode.on.net>
	<A70E436D-26F0-4F76-92AD-126F8DF4AF78@mac-access.net>
	<61D4830B-5980-4D7D-B409-71681F7953BF@internode.on.net>
	<C13A527A-3145-44FF-A2A7-78CFDFE34293@mac-access.net>
Message-ID: <B1FA2296-B90D-42C8-9831-D95EEBB15062@internode.on.net>

Yep nodding in agreement here.

I use 1 Password for Windows and it works well so you'll have no problem with your plans there.


On 10/10/2011, at 8:37 AM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:

> hello Dane
> 
> Actually, this is one reason why Gordon is keen to get 1Password working properly. We are all to aware of the problems and dangers that cookies can cause and, if we had a reliable mechanism for log-ins at sites we regularly visit, we would definitely take steps to disable cookies and things. We use session cookies with our secure file manager. But they are not malicious. They are used for the soul purpose of storing log-in data throughout the session. If somebody chooses to remember their log-in credentials by checking the check box on our sight, that's a different matter. But even then our cookies are not malicious.
> 
> But the point here is that we give people the option; we certainly do not, and would not use any malicious code whatsoever and we track nobody and nothing. But I am getting off the point.
> 
> Since it seems that we are going to have to use Windows a little bit here, it's good to be protected against unwanted junk. So I opted to make the investment. I am a firm believer that "you gets what you pays for". Free software, with the obvious exception of that which is written by enthusiasts, usually brings catches. For instance there was a bit of a hu-hah recently about Microsoft's Windows Live. Apparently Microsoft were using that to collect information about the machine, its mail activity and address books.
> 
> We really don't like Outlook, and the Express version should be banned! I can't comment about the later versions but Express is probably the biggest security threat which was legitimised that ever existed in the world of I.T.
> 
> Lynne
> 
> On 9 Oct 2011, at 18:48, Dane Trethowan wrote:
> 
> Yep, I had a licence for the Vipre Enterprise version, I had been warned against buying that actually by someone else.  I could never get it to work either so I contacted Vipre Customer Support, told them of my error of purchasing the wrong version and they had no hesitation in refunding me the purchase cost and sending me a direct URL for the purchase of Vipre Anti Virus Premium and that's what I did <smile>.
> 
> You're absolutely right about cookies and their danger is very much under stated and under estimated when it comes to compremising security, its suggested a lot nowadays that one should actually set one's browser to "Clear" one's browsing history, cache etc when the browser is closed, yep that's how seriously the issue of Cookies is taken.
> 
> 
> 
> =======================================
> 
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From grtdane at internode.on.net  Mon Oct 10 00:08:09 2011
From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 10:08:09 +1100
Subject: Microsoft Windows Defender
In-Reply-To: <82F72DEC-23B6-459E-821B-0CC6F9C22697@mac-access.net>
References: <D93A3AE7-C3A0-49E6-8FA7-449C98FF7746@mac-access.net>	<4E91B86C.2000106@techno-chat.net>
	<1F5500CC-948E-4484-B044-D5836CA69B1C@mac-access.net>
	<4E91CEB2.6030906@techno-chat.net>
	<A8CA2FE9-7875-43FB-B909-87C54204E555@mac-access.net>
	<15942E02-F0E6-4869-BC76-0892E4A85BF0@internode.on.net>
	<82F72DEC-23B6-459E-821B-0CC6F9C22697@mac-access.net>
Message-ID: <763E8E7B-879B-4DAA-A97D-10383392C965@internode.on.net>

Thanks, I never thought of relying on it anyway <smile>.


On 10/10/2011, at 8:39 AM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:

> Hello Dane
> 
> Windows Defender is just a very basic basic utility. I wouldn't rely upon it if I were you. Have a look in some of the security forums and you soon learn about this stuff.
> 
> Lynne
> 
> On 9 Oct 2011, at 18:52, Dane Trethowan wrote:
> 
> I've heard the Microsoft Anti Virus software is very accessible but given what I've written in a previous message I have to ask the question, does Microsoft Defender or whatever its called look out for such things as tracking Cookies and the like? Now I'm not saying the software doesn't but my betting is that it probably doesn't as so many other so-called security suites do not including AVG. but at least AVG Anti Virus do admit that the free version is exactly that, both very free and very basic <smile>, I know people who have upgraded to AVG Pro and they seem to have all the scanning and repair/security tools at their disposal but the only problem is the accessibility of the software I'm told.
> 
> 
> On 10/10/2011, at 4:07 AM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:
> 
>> Hello Chris
>> 
>> Let me tell you what puts us off Microsoft's products. They frequently covertly collect your personal data as in Outlook Express etc. Many people don't realise what's going on behind the scenes but it's been proven by security experts, (Steve Gibson, for example), that these free Ms products are not all people think they are.
>> 
>> There is an old saying, and it's still true today; you get nothing for nothing. If a programme in the Windows world is free, and it's released by a big company such as Microsoft, there' usually; if not always a catch. We have no intentions of falling into that trap.
>> 
>> Have you noticed how your email address mysteriously finds its way to spammers and advertisers? Even though you haven't given it to them yourself, and you've often never even heard of the company? Well, there's your proof. People's address book data with Outlook is being covertly collected and distributed.
>> 
>> That is why we won't use anything Microsoft and we totally agree with Dane who wisely opts not to use those product.
>> 
>> Lynne
>> 
>> On 9 Oct 2011, at 17:41, chris hallsworth wrote:
>> 
>> Really? No argument here but I've had absolutely no problems with the free stuff. Oh well, hope you find a good solution very soon.
>> 
>> On 09/10/2011 17:36, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:
>>> Hi Chris
>>> 
>>> I'm sorry; I should have made this more clear. We want to stay well away from Microsoft add-onds, and we're moving away from Eset Smart Security if possible. Eset is fine as far as it goes; but they're quite expensive for what it is.
>>> 
>>> We never go for the free versions of anything, to be honest. There is, we find, always a catch with those. And that is perfectly understandable.
>>> 
>>> Thank you for the suggestions though.
>>> 
>>> Lynne
>>> 
>>> On 9 Oct 2011, at 16:06, chris hallsworth wrote:
>>> 
>>> Ok I would go for Microsoft Security Essentials as your antivirus and Malwarebytes Antimalware as your second line of defense. These are both free and fully accessible applications. I can't see any other justification apart from that. If you want to renew your Eset license, that's fine. But I use this combination and they work great. In fact, I have paid for Malwarebytes Antimalware Pro simply because of the realtime protection and scheduler feature. But this one is up to you. The free version provides on demand scanning and updating. Hope this helps.
>>> 
>>> On 09/10/2011 15:46, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:
>>>> Hello everybody
>>>> 
>>>> We are now in the process of setting up a couple of machines running Windows. What do people recommend for system security and antivirus? We've had an Eset Smart Security licence for the last 4 years but is expires later this month and we are trying to decide whether to renew it or go for another solution.
>>>> 
>>>> Recommendations, suggestions, explanations, justifications, thoughts and opinions welcome. Thank you.
>>>> 
>>>> Lynne
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> =======================================
>>>> 
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>>>> 
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>>>> 
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>>>> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
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>>> 
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>>> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
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From grtdane at internode.on.net  Mon Oct 10 00:15:05 2011
From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 10:15:05 +1100
Subject: Rollback and Windows System Restore
In-Reply-To: <FB7F343C-0F6E-4883-8C31-25962ED343BB@mac-access.net>
References: <FB7F343C-0F6E-4883-8C31-25962ED343BB@mac-access.net>
Message-ID: <F8589CD7-98CC-458F-8762-18294DEF96D8@internode.on.net>

Rollback is an excellent utility, I use it here.

I would also point out that Windows System Restore has itself come a long way in Windows 7 and provides much of the functionality of Rollback in that the System Restore can now "restore" to previous snapshots out of Windows.

Again, I've not tried this and I don't know even whether this function is accessible to those without vision in the "Boot" sequence as can be done with Rollback, I just know System Restore is now capable of booting previous Windows sessions so Windows users should take ful advantage of at least what System restore has to offer, will save them a lot of pain <smile>.


On 10/10/2011, at 9:07 AM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:

> Hello everybody
> 
> I know there are those on list who think that Gordon and I are very anti-Microsoft and anti-Windows. Actually that's not completely true; we recognise that there are advantages to the OS, just as there are disadvantages and advantages to Mac OS X.
> 
> Anyway, recently our little NetBook fell victim to the old Windows problems and it crashed; complaining about some sort of hardware change that had apparently been made by some invisible person.
> 
> No; this wasn't a hacker attack. The change never even occurred; I know that because at the time its network was totally disabled.
> 
> Anyway, after a lon time sitting on the shelf in broken mode, I eventually found the time to sit down with Gordon and look at the machine. We decided to do a little more digging; and went into the system BIOS, and turned off the Asus "Boot Booster" function. Then we rebooted the machine.
> 
> The difference was startling. Instead of turning on the machine and being in Windows within about 10 seconds, the machine booted from a truly cold reset condition. This time, up popped the menu which was missing in Boot Booster mode, that of RollBAck RX professional.
> 
> Once this menu appeared, it allowed me to "Roll Back" the machine to a time when Windows was fixed, and running well. In a matter of about 5 minutes, our system was rolled back and running perfectly again.
> 
> RollBack RX available from <http://www.horizondatasys.com> (if memory serves) is one of the best Windows products on the market in the field of disaster recovery.
> 
> I would go so far as to say that no machine should be without RollBAck if it runs Windows. It makes Microsoft's feeble System Restore look pathetic, because System Restore cannot correct pre-boot problems, as RollBAck can. If your boot config goes wrong and you only have System Restore for your defence, you could well be in for a long restore job.
> 
> RollBack Pro RX is a product we've used for a very very long time, and we've recommended to others on this list and I know that at least one person is using it.
> 
> Previously, Gordon tells me he had a product called "GoBAck" by Roxio. But Symantec bought that and promptly did away with it so that it wouldn't impede their sales of Norton Utilities.
> 
> Long story; but in Windows XP SP2 and later, GoBAck would no longer function and so that was the end of that idea. But Rollback remains to this day as valuable a tool as it was 5 years ago when, apparently, Gordon started using it.
> 
> Thanks to that software our NetBook was up and running again within about 5 minutes of being booted into the RollBack menu. Rollback does have a GUI which you can use within Windows as well. That's another nice thing about it. It's 100% accessible. The boot menu is actually quite easy for a blind person as well; you just hold down the Home key when your system boots. Then, if you want to restore your system, just cursor down once and press Enter.
> 
> A list of restore points comes up; with the latest snapshot at the top of the list. Just cursor down to the one you want and hit enter and off you go. If you only have one baseline restore point, it will be marked as "Installation", and is the only one you cannot delete. But all you have to do to roll back to it is to cursor down once or twice and then hit enter.
> 
> All in all, RollBAck RX Pro is well worth the money. It has saved my other half countless hours of re-installing over the years he's been using it.
> 
> Lynne
> 
> 
> 
> =======================================
> 
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From marrie12 at gmail.com  Mon Oct 10 00:19:58 2011
From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah Alawami)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2011 16:19:58 -0700
Subject: Microsoft Windows Defender
In-Reply-To: <763E8E7B-879B-4DAA-A97D-10383392C965@internode.on.net>
References: <D93A3AE7-C3A0-49E6-8FA7-449C98FF7746@mac-access.net>	<4E91B86C.2000106@techno-chat.net>
	<1F5500CC-948E-4484-B044-D5836CA69B1C@mac-access.net>
	<4E91CEB2.6030906@techno-chat.net>
	<A8CA2FE9-7875-43FB-B909-87C54204E555@mac-access.net>
	<15942E02-F0E6-4869-BC76-0892E4A85BF0@internode.on.net>
	<82F72DEC-23B6-459E-821B-0CC6F9C22697@mac-access.net>
	<763E8E7B-879B-4DAA-A97D-10383392C965@internode.on.net>
Message-ID: <08DB5D74-476D-43CD-ABA6-29751658BA56@gmail.com>

Yeah I use malware bytes and defender and both catch everything that harms my computer.
On Oct 9, 2011, at 4:08 PM, Dane Trethowan wrote:

> Thanks, I never thought of relying on it anyway <smile>.
> 
> 
> On 10/10/2011, at 8:39 AM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:
> 
>> Hello Dane
>> 
>> Windows Defender is just a very basic basic utility. I wouldn't rely upon it if I were you. Have a look in some of the security forums and you soon learn about this stuff.
>> 
>> Lynne
>> 
>> On 9 Oct 2011, at 18:52, Dane Trethowan wrote:
>> 
>> I've heard the Microsoft Anti Virus software is very accessible but given what I've written in a previous message I have to ask the question, does Microsoft Defender or whatever its called look out for such things as tracking Cookies and the like? Now I'm not saying the software doesn't but my betting is that it probably doesn't as so many other so-called security suites do not including AVG. but at least AVG Anti Virus do admit that the free version is exactly that, both very free and very basic <smile>, I know people who have upgraded to AVG Pro and they seem to have all the scanning and repair/security tools at their disposal but the only problem is the accessibility of the software I'm told.
>> 
>> 
>> On 10/10/2011, at 4:07 AM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:
>> 
>>> Hello Chris
>>> 
>>> Let me tell you what puts us off Microsoft's products. They frequently covertly collect your personal data as in Outlook Express etc. Many people don't realise what's going on behind the scenes but it's been proven by security experts, (Steve Gibson, for example), that these free Ms products are not all people think they are.
>>> 
>>> There is an old saying, and it's still true today; you get nothing for nothing. If a programme in the Windows world is free, and it's released by a big company such as Microsoft, there' usually; if not always a catch. We have no intentions of falling into that trap.
>>> 
>>> Have you noticed how your email address mysteriously finds its way to spammers and advertisers? Even though you haven't given it to them yourself, and you've often never even heard of the company? Well, there's your proof. People's address book data with Outlook is being covertly collected and distributed.
>>> 
>>> That is why we won't use anything Microsoft and we totally agree with Dane who wisely opts not to use those product.
>>> 
>>> Lynne
>>> 
>>> On 9 Oct 2011, at 17:41, chris hallsworth wrote:
>>> 
>>> Really? No argument here but I've had absolutely no problems with the free stuff. Oh well, hope you find a good solution very soon.
>>> 
>>> On 09/10/2011 17:36, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:
>>>> Hi Chris
>>>> 
>>>> I'm sorry; I should have made this more clear. We want to stay well away from Microsoft add-onds, and we're moving away from Eset Smart Security if possible. Eset is fine as far as it goes; but they're quite expensive for what it is.
>>>> 
>>>> We never go for the free versions of anything, to be honest. There is, we find, always a catch with those. And that is perfectly understandable.
>>>> 
>>>> Thank you for the suggestions though.
>>>> 
>>>> Lynne
>>>> 
>>>> On 9 Oct 2011, at 16:06, chris hallsworth wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Ok I would go for Microsoft Security Essentials as your antivirus and Malwarebytes Antimalware as your second line of defense. These are both free and fully accessible applications. I can't see any other justification apart from that. If you want to renew your Eset license, that's fine. But I use this combination and they work great. In fact, I have paid for Malwarebytes Antimalware Pro simply because of the realtime protection and scheduler feature. But this one is up to you. The free version provides on demand scanning and updating. Hope this helps.
>>>> 
>>>> On 09/10/2011 15:46, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:
>>>>> Hello everybody
>>>>> 
>>>>> We are now in the process of setting up a couple of machines running Windows. What do people recommend for system security and antivirus? We've had an Eset Smart Security licence for the last 4 years but is expires later this month and we are trying to decide whether to renew it or go for another solution.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Recommendations, suggestions, explanations, justifications, thoughts and opinions welcome. Thank you.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Lynne
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> =======================================
>>>>> 
>>>>> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free
>>>>> 
>>>>> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
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>>>>> 
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>>>>> 
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>>>>> 
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>>>>> 
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> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html
> 
> Or:
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> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
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From lynne at mac-access.net  Mon Oct 10 00:30:00 2011
From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 00:30:00 +0100
Subject: Cookies [Not The Chocolate Chip Type]
In-Reply-To: <B1FA2296-B90D-42C8-9831-D95EEBB15062@internode.on.net>
References: <D93A3AE7-C3A0-49E6-8FA7-449C98FF7746@mac-access.net>
	<6C9999C8-60EE-4A3D-B3A2-5DE46CBE1548@internode.on.net>
	<A70E436D-26F0-4F76-92AD-126F8DF4AF78@mac-access.net>
	<61D4830B-5980-4D7D-B409-71681F7953BF@internode.on.net>
	<C13A527A-3145-44FF-A2A7-78CFDFE34293@mac-access.net>
	<B1FA2296-B90D-42C8-9831-D95EEBB15062@internode.on.net>
Message-ID: <2D0B30CE-098F-4356-AD97-4FFD42C34082@mac-access.net>

Hello Dane

OK; just one question for you here and feel free to decline with no ill-feeling.

Given Gordon's recent health traumas, he's not exactly firing on all thrusters at the moment. Would you be willing to give us a helping hand, privately, to set up 1Password across the board, including Windows? We're not much interested in setting it up on iOS as we don't do anything there that needs it. But OSX and Windows would be very very useful. We have it installed in oSX but not yet under Windows.

if you don't want to be involved that's fine, no problem. Gordon's concentration levels at the moment are still pretty low. As for me, I only do the things he's shown me; but I'd be happy to try and set that up. I'm about to go and try Vipre.

Lynne


On 10 Oct 2011, at 00:07, Dane Trethowan wrote:

Yep nodding in agreement here.

I use 1 Password for Windows and it works well so you'll have no problem with your plans there.


On 10/10/2011, at 8:37 AM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:

> hello Dane
> 
> Actually, this is one reason why Gordon is keen to get 1Password working properly. We are all to aware of the problems and dangers that cookies can cause and, if we had a reliable mechanism for log-ins at sites we regularly visit, we would definitely take steps to disable cookies and things. We use session cookies with our secure file manager. But they are not malicious. They are used for the soul purpose of storing log-in data throughout the session. If somebody chooses to remember their log-in credentials by checking the check box on our sight, that's a different matter. But even then our cookies are not malicious.
> 
> But the point here is that we give people the option; we certainly do not, and would not use any malicious code whatsoever and we track nobody and nothing. But I am getting off the point.
> 
> Since it seems that we are going to have to use Windows a little bit here, it's good to be protected against unwanted junk. So I opted to make the investment. I am a firm believer that "you gets what you pays for". Free software, with the obvious exception of that which is written by enthusiasts, usually brings catches. For instance there was a bit of a hu-hah recently about Microsoft's Windows Live. Apparently Microsoft were using that to collect information about the machine, its mail activity and address books.
> 
> We really don't like Outlook, and the Express version should be banned! I can't comment about the later versions but Express is probably the biggest security threat which was legitimised that ever existed in the world of I.T.
> 
> Lynne
> 
> On 9 Oct 2011, at 18:48, Dane Trethowan wrote:
> 
> Yep, I had a licence for the Vipre Enterprise version, I had been warned against buying that actually by someone else.  I could never get it to work either so I contacted Vipre Customer Support, told them of my error of purchasing the wrong version and they had no hesitation in refunding me the purchase cost and sending me a direct URL for the purchase of Vipre Anti Virus Premium and that's what I did <smile>.
> 
> You're absolutely right about cookies and their danger is very much under stated and under estimated when it comes to compremising security, its suggested a lot nowadays that one should actually set one's browser to "Clear" one's browsing history, cache etc when the browser is closed, yep that's how seriously the issue of Cookies is taken.
> 
> 
> 
> =======================================
> 
> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free
> 
> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat
> 
> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites:
> 
> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html
> 
> Or:
> <http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat at techno-chat.net>
> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
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=======================================

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To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
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You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites:

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---------------------------------------


From grtdane at internode.on.net  Mon Oct 10 00:34:54 2011
From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 10:34:54 +1100
Subject: Cookies [Not The Chocolate Chip Type]
In-Reply-To: <2D0B30CE-098F-4356-AD97-4FFD42C34082@mac-access.net>
References: <D93A3AE7-C3A0-49E6-8FA7-449C98FF7746@mac-access.net>
	<6C9999C8-60EE-4A3D-B3A2-5DE46CBE1548@internode.on.net>
	<A70E436D-26F0-4F76-92AD-126F8DF4AF78@mac-access.net>
	<61D4830B-5980-4D7D-B409-71681F7953BF@internode.on.net>
	<C13A527A-3145-44FF-A2A7-78CFDFE34293@mac-access.net>
	<B1FA2296-B90D-42C8-9831-D95EEBB15062@internode.on.net>
	<2D0B30CE-098F-4356-AD97-4FFD42C34082@mac-access.net>
Message-ID: <E842448F-3D64-4C99-A668-9D81EB3BD8A0@internode.on.net>

not much to setting it up across the board, I'll give you a hand but you won't need my help I reckon <smile>, just use Dropbox as the platform to store your and tell 1 Password on whatever platform you use it on about your Dropbox account, done!


On 10/10/2011, at 10:30 AM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:

> Hello Dane
> 
> OK; just one question for you here and feel free to decline with no ill-feeling.
> 
> Given Gordon's recent health traumas, he's not exactly firing on all thrusters at the moment. Would you be willing to give us a helping hand, privately, to set up 1Password across the board, including Windows? We're not much interested in setting it up on iOS as we don't do anything there that needs it. But OSX and Windows would be very very useful. We have it installed in oSX but not yet under Windows.
> 
> if you don't want to be involved that's fine, no problem. Gordon's concentration levels at the moment are still pretty low. As for me, I only do the things he's shown me; but I'd be happy to try and set that up. I'm about to go and try Vipre.
> 
> Lynne
> 
> 
> On 10 Oct 2011, at 00:07, Dane Trethowan wrote:
> 
> Yep nodding in agreement here.
> 
> I use 1 Password for Windows and it works well so you'll have no problem with your plans there.
> 
> 
> On 10/10/2011, at 8:37 AM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:
> 
>> hello Dane
>> 
>> Actually, this is one reason why Gordon is keen to get 1Password working properly. We are all to aware of the problems and dangers that cookies can cause and, if we had a reliable mechanism for log-ins at sites we regularly visit, we would definitely take steps to disable cookies and things. We use session cookies with our secure file manager. But they are not malicious. They are used for the soul purpose of storing log-in data throughout the session. If somebody chooses to remember their log-in credentials by checking the check box on our sight, that's a different matter. But even then our cookies are not malicious.
>> 
>> But the point here is that we give people the option; we certainly do not, and would not use any malicious code whatsoever and we track nobody and nothing. But I am getting off the point.
>> 
>> Since it seems that we are going to have to use Windows a little bit here, it's good to be protected against unwanted junk. So I opted to make the investment. I am a firm believer that "you gets what you pays for". Free software, with the obvious exception of that which is written by enthusiasts, usually brings catches. For instance there was a bit of a hu-hah recently about Microsoft's Windows Live. Apparently Microsoft were using that to collect information about the machine, its mail activity and address books.
>> 
>> We really don't like Outlook, and the Express version should be banned! I can't comment about the later versions but Express is probably the biggest security threat which was legitimised that ever existed in the world of I.T.
>> 
>> Lynne
>> 
>> On 9 Oct 2011, at 18:48, Dane Trethowan wrote:
>> 
>> Yep, I had a licence for the Vipre Enterprise version, I had been warned against buying that actually by someone else.  I could never get it to work either so I contacted Vipre Customer Support, told them of my error of purchasing the wrong version and they had no hesitation in refunding me the purchase cost and sending me a direct URL for the purchase of Vipre Anti Virus Premium and that's what I did <smile>.
>> 
>> You're absolutely right about cookies and their danger is very much under stated and under estimated when it comes to compremising security, its suggested a lot nowadays that one should actually set one's browser to "Clear" one's browsing history, cache etc when the browser is closed, yep that's how seriously the issue of Cookies is taken.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> =======================================
>> 
>> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free
>> 
>> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat
>> 
>> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites:
>> 
>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html
>> 
>> Or:
>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat at techno-chat.net>
>> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat at techno-chat.net/maillist.xml>
>> 
>> ---------------------------------------
> 
> 
> =======================================
> 
> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free
> 
> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat
> 
> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites:
> 
> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html
> 
> Or:
> <http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat at techno-chat.net>
> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
> <http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat at techno-chat.net/maillist.xml>
> 
> ---------------------------------------
> 
> 
> =======================================
> 
> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free
> 
> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat
> 
> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites:
> 
> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html
> 
> Or:
> <http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat at techno-chat.net>
> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
> <http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat at techno-chat.net/maillist.xml>
> 
> ---------------------------------------


From lynne at mac-access.net  Mon Oct 10 00:43:19 2011
From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 00:43:19 +0100
Subject: Something Else on the way!
Message-ID: <6786635A-D4FE-44B7-A3BE-4B4B4E79912F@mac-access.net>

Hello all

Another thing I have invested in for Gordon's sake which might interest the group.

Gordon is utterly sick and tired of the horrible voices which come with Window-Eyes and NVDA screen-readers. his favourite voices by far are those of Infovox iVox, which he uses on the Mac.

So, last week I took the plunge and invested in an InfoVox "Inkey" package.

The "Inkey" package is a USB thumb drive which comes with a copy of all of the English language InfoVox voices plus 3 licenses to use them on machines under Windows. It works like this. You install iVox on your machine and a fingerprint of your hard drive is taken. The fingerprint is used to activate iVox on their servers. The programme then runs locally without the thumb drive. Interestingly enough, the drive also contains NvDA, although I doubt it's the current version.

It's a bit on the expensive side, I must admit. It retails over here for ?270.00 plus shipping. But it's the only way Gordon is going to be comfortable using Windows having become so familiar with it on the Mac. If anybody is interested in how we find this thing, let me know and I'll send a report to the group.

Lynne


From lynne at mac-access.net  Mon Oct 10 00:45:03 2011
From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 00:45:03 +0100
Subject: Microsoft Windows Defender
In-Reply-To: <763E8E7B-879B-4DAA-A97D-10383392C965@internode.on.net>
References: <D93A3AE7-C3A0-49E6-8FA7-449C98FF7746@mac-access.net>	<4E91B86C.2000106@techno-chat.net>
	<1F5500CC-948E-4484-B044-D5836CA69B1C@mac-access.net>
	<4E91CEB2.6030906@techno-chat.net>
	<A8CA2FE9-7875-43FB-B909-87C54204E555@mac-access.net>
	<15942E02-F0E6-4869-BC76-0892E4A85BF0@internode.on.net>
	<82F72DEC-23B6-459E-821B-0CC6F9C22697@mac-access.net>
	<763E8E7B-879B-4DAA-A97D-10383392C965@internode.on.net>
Message-ID: <8FDB1669-4FF7-4697-B6F4-44C15C0BC694@mac-access.net>

Hello Dane

On 10 Oct 2011, at 00:08, Dane Trethowan wrote:

Thanks, I never thought of relying on it anyway <smile>.

Just a figure of speech.

Lynne


From lynne at mac-access.net  Mon Oct 10 00:48:44 2011
From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 00:48:44 +0100
Subject: Rollback and Windows System Restore
In-Reply-To: <F8589CD7-98CC-458F-8762-18294DEF96D8@internode.on.net>
References: <FB7F343C-0F6E-4883-8C31-25962ED343BB@mac-access.net>
	<F8589CD7-98CC-458F-8762-18294DEF96D8@internode.on.net>
Message-ID: <BA3C7D78-A12A-45E3-B70F-6F955757FB02@mac-access.net>

Hello Dane
There is still a lot that you cannot do with System Restore, even under 7. For instance you can't, as I understand it, restore individual files. And as far as I know it isn't accessible. I could be wrong there; please somebody correct me if I am.

But we'll be sticking with RollBack I think as it's a comprehensive solution. The one problem we have is with disk optimisation. We haven't as yet discovered how to use it with Diskeeper which we need to upgrade to 2011.

Lynne

On 10 Oct 2011, at 00:15, Dane Trethowan wrote:

Rollback is an excellent utility, I use it here.

I would also point out that Windows System Restore has itself come a long way in Windows 7 and provides much of the functionality of Rollback in that the System Restore can now "restore" to previous snapshots out of Windows.

Again, I've not tried this and I don't know even whether this function is accessible to those without vision in the "Boot" sequence as can be done with Rollback, I just know System Restore is now capable of booting previous Windows sessions so Windows users should take ful advantage of at least what System restore has to offer, will save them a lot of pain <smile>.


On 10/10/2011, at 9:07 AM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:

> Hello everybody
> 
> I know there are those on list who think that Gordon and I are very anti-Microsoft and anti-Windows. Actually that's not completely true; we recognise that there are advantages to the OS, just as there are disadvantages and advantages to Mac OS X.
> 
> Anyway, recently our little NetBook fell victim to the old Windows problems and it crashed; complaining about some sort of hardware change that had apparently been made by some invisible person.
> 
> No; this wasn't a hacker attack. The change never even occurred; I know that because at the time its network was totally disabled.
> 
> Anyway, after a lon time sitting on the shelf in broken mode, I eventually found the time to sit down with Gordon and look at the machine. We decided to do a little more digging; and went into the system BIOS, and turned off the Asus "Boot Booster" function. Then we rebooted the machine.
> 
> The difference was startling. Instead of turning on the machine and being in Windows within about 10 seconds, the machine booted from a truly cold reset condition. This time, up popped the menu which was missing in Boot Booster mode, that of RollBAck RX professional.
> 
> Once this menu appeared, it allowed me to "Roll Back" the machine to a time when Windows was fixed, and running well. In a matter of about 5 minutes, our system was rolled back and running perfectly again.
> 
> RollBack RX available from <http://www.horizondatasys.com> (if memory serves) is one of the best Windows products on the market in the field of disaster recovery.
> 
> I would go so far as to say that no machine should be without RollBAck if it runs Windows. It makes Microsoft's feeble System Restore look pathetic, because System Restore cannot correct pre-boot problems, as RollBAck can. If your boot config goes wrong and you only have System Restore for your defence, you could well be in for a long restore job.
> 
> RollBack Pro RX is a product we've used for a very very long time, and we've recommended to others on this list and I know that at least one person is using it.
> 
> Previously, Gordon tells me he had a product called "GoBAck" by Roxio. But Symantec bought that and promptly did away with it so that it wouldn't impede their sales of Norton Utilities.
> 
> Long story; but in Windows XP SP2 and later, GoBAck would no longer function and so that was the end of that idea. But Rollback remains to this day as valuable a tool as it was 5 years ago when, apparently, Gordon started using it.
> 
> Thanks to that software our NetBook was up and running again within about 5 minutes of being booted into the RollBack menu. Rollback does have a GUI which you can use within Windows as well. That's another nice thing about it. It's 100% accessible. The boot menu is actually quite easy for a blind person as well; you just hold down the Home key when your system boots. Then, if you want to restore your system, just cursor down once and press Enter.
> 
> A list of restore points comes up; with the latest snapshot at the top of the list. Just cursor down to the one you want and hit enter and off you go. If you only have one baseline restore point, it will be marked as "Installation", and is the only one you cannot delete. But all you have to do to roll back to it is to cursor down once or twice and then hit enter.
> 
> All in all, RollBAck RX Pro is well worth the money. It has saved my other half countless hours of re-installing over the years he's been using it.
> 
> Lynne
> 
> 
> 
> =======================================
> 
> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free
> 
> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat
> 
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> 
> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html
> 
> Or:
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> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
> <http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat at techno-chat.net/maillist.xml>
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=======================================

The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free

To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
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You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites:

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---------------------------------------


From lynne at mac-access.net  Mon Oct 10 00:50:41 2011
From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 00:50:41 +0100
Subject: Microsoft Windows Defender
In-Reply-To: <08DB5D74-476D-43CD-ABA6-29751658BA56@gmail.com>
References: <D93A3AE7-C3A0-49E6-8FA7-449C98FF7746@mac-access.net>	<4E91B86C.2000106@techno-chat.net>
	<1F5500CC-948E-4484-B044-D5836CA69B1C@mac-access.net>
	<4E91CEB2.6030906@techno-chat.net>
	<A8CA2FE9-7875-43FB-B909-87C54204E555@mac-access.net>
	<15942E02-F0E6-4869-BC76-0892E4A85BF0@internode.on.net>
	<82F72DEC-23B6-459E-821B-0CC6F9C22697@mac-access.net>
	<763E8E7B-879B-4DAA-A97D-10383392C965@internode.on.net>
	<08DB5D74-476D-43CD-ABA6-29751658BA56@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AA51BCE0-A7AC-4954-B797-D8DB7D420E54@mac-access.net>

Hello Sarah

That's an incredibly dangerous assumption to make. I submit that there's probably no product which is 100% reliable. But if you read the GRC security stuff you might come away with a different perspective.

Lynne

On 10 Oct 2011, at 00:19, Sarah Alawami wrote:

Yeah I use malware bytes and defender and both catch everything that harms my computer.



From lynne at mac-access.net  Mon Oct 10 00:52:36 2011
From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 00:52:36 +0100
Subject: Cookies [Not The Chocolate Chip Type]
In-Reply-To: <E842448F-3D64-4C99-A668-9D81EB3BD8A0@internode.on.net>
References: <D93A3AE7-C3A0-49E6-8FA7-449C98FF7746@mac-access.net>
	<6C9999C8-60EE-4A3D-B3A2-5DE46CBE1548@internode.on.net>
	<A70E436D-26F0-4F76-92AD-126F8DF4AF78@mac-access.net>
	<61D4830B-5980-4D7D-B409-71681F7953BF@internode.on.net>
	<C13A527A-3145-44FF-A2A7-78CFDFE34293@mac-access.net>
	<B1FA2296-B90D-42C8-9831-D95EEBB15062@internode.on.net>
	<2D0B30CE-098F-4356-AD97-4FFD42C34082@mac-access.net>
	<E842448F-3D64-4C99-A668-9D81EB3BD8A0@internode.on.net>
Message-ID: <AF3BFDF1-4427-41B1-884C-026E66056F7D@mac-access.net>

hello Dane

OK, we'll try it. Gordon and I are both suffering from insomnia tonight so we might give it a go in a few minutes. We are still getting no use out of it on the Mac, As in when we go to websites it still does not auto-log-in.

Lynne


On 10 Oct 2011, at 00:34, Dane Trethowan wrote:

not much to setting it up across the board, I'll give you a hand but you won't need my help I reckon <smile>, just use Dropbox as the platform to store your and tell 1 Password on whatever platform you use it on about your Dropbox account, done!


On 10/10/2011, at 10:30 AM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:

> Hello Dane
> 
> OK; just one question for you here and feel free to decline with no ill-feeling.
> 
> Given Gordon's recent health traumas, he's not exactly firing on all thrusters at the moment. Would you be willing to give us a helping hand, privately, to set up 1Password across the board, including Windows? We're not much interested in setting it up on iOS as we don't do anything there that needs it. But OSX and Windows would be very very useful. We have it installed in oSX but not yet under Windows.
> 
> if you don't want to be involved that's fine, no problem. Gordon's concentration levels at the moment are still pretty low. As for me, I only do the things he's shown me; but I'd be happy to try and set that up. I'm about to go and try Vipre.
> 
> Lynne
> 
> 
> On 10 Oct 2011, at 00:07, Dane Trethowan wrote:
> 
> Yep nodding in agreement here.
> 
> I use 1 Password for Windows and it works well so you'll have no problem with your plans there.
> 
> 
> On 10/10/2011, at 8:37 AM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:
> 
>> hello Dane
>> 
>> Actually, this is one reason why Gordon is keen to get 1Password working properly. We are all to aware of the problems and dangers that cookies can cause and, if we had a reliable mechanism for log-ins at sites we regularly visit, we would definitely take steps to disable cookies and things. We use session cookies with our secure file manager. But they are not malicious. They are used for the soul purpose of storing log-in data throughout the session. If somebody chooses to remember their log-in credentials by checking the check box on our sight, that's a different matter. But even then our cookies are not malicious.
>> 
>> But the point here is that we give people the option; we certainly do not, and would not use any malicious code whatsoever and we track nobody and nothing. But I am getting off the point.
>> 
>> Since it seems that we are going to have to use Windows a little bit here, it's good to be protected against unwanted junk. So I opted to make the investment. I am a firm believer that "you gets what you pays for". Free software, with the obvious exception of that which is written by enthusiasts, usually brings catches. For instance there was a bit of a hu-hah recently about Microsoft's Windows Live. Apparently Microsoft were using that to collect information about the machine, its mail activity and address books.
>> 
>> We really don't like Outlook, and the Express version should be banned! I can't comment about the later versions but Express is probably the biggest security threat which was legitimised that ever existed in the world of I.T.
>> 
>> Lynne
>> 
>> On 9 Oct 2011, at 18:48, Dane Trethowan wrote:
>> 
>> Yep, I had a licence for the Vipre Enterprise version, I had been warned against buying that actually by someone else.  I could never get it to work either so I contacted Vipre Customer Support, told them of my error of purchasing the wrong version and they had no hesitation in refunding me the purchase cost and sending me a direct URL for the purchase of Vipre Anti Virus Premium and that's what I did <smile>.
>> 
>> You're absolutely right about cookies and their danger is very much under stated and under estimated when it comes to compremising security, its suggested a lot nowadays that one should actually set one's browser to "Clear" one's browsing history, cache etc when the browser is closed, yep that's how seriously the issue of Cookies is taken.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> =======================================
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From grtdane at internode.on.net  Mon Oct 10 00:55:10 2011
From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane trethowan)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 10:55:10 +1100
Subject: Microsoft Products and substitutes for same
In-Reply-To: <8FDB1669-4FF7-4697-B6F4-44C15C0BC694@mac-access.net>
References: <D93A3AE7-C3A0-49E6-8FA7-449C98FF7746@mac-access.net>	<4E91B86C.2000106@techno-chat.net>
	<1F5500CC-948E-4484-B044-D5836CA69B1C@mac-access.net>
	<4E91CEB2.6030906@techno-chat.net>
	<A8CA2FE9-7875-43FB-B909-87C54204E555@mac-access.net>
	<15942E02-F0E6-4869-BC76-0892E4A85BF0@internode.on.net>
	<82F72DEC-23B6-459E-821B-0CC6F9C22697@mac-access.net>
	<763E8E7B-879B-4DAA-A97D-10383392C965@internode.on.net>
	<8FDB1669-4FF7-4697-B6F4-44C15C0BC694@mac-access.net>
Message-ID: <4E92345E.1010406@internode.on.net>

Yes indeed <smiloe>.

I've never relied or been tempted to use any Microsoft products much at 
all, in the main they're very bulky for one thing.

I've always had trouble getting Outlook Express to work so I gave up on 
that.  did try Outlook 2003 at one point though it appeared to be a mess 
when it came to all its functions and integrating them hence I spent a 
lot more time using that software and wasting that time if that makes 
any sense.

The "Live" stuff I didn't enjoy at all and thus have found replacements 
for many of the "Live" utilities and functions.  for example Miranda is 
an excellent multi protocol chat client in much the same way as Adium 
for the Mac.  I can write my blogs under Windows using something called 
Blogjet, not the most accessible piece of software on the planet but it 
is usable.

I don't use Microsoft Office utilities as I've found substitutes for 
them, Jarte Plus for Word Processing, nothing for spreadsheet design yet 
and Ask Sam for database management, could also use that for Word 
Processing too if i wanted.

and for email? Well i use the now tried and true Thunderbird, I use NVDA 
a lot of the time so I'm insulated for the problems that users of 
Window-eyes have with this software <smile>.



On 10/10/2011 10:45 AM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:
> Hello Dane
>
> On 10 Oct 2011, at 00:08, Dane Trethowan wrote:
>
> Thanks, I never thought of relying on it anyway<smile>.
>
> Just a figure of speech.
>
> Lynne
>
>
> =======================================
>
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>
> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html
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From grtdane at internode.on.net  Mon Oct 10 00:57:09 2011
From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane trethowan)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 10:57:09 +1100
Subject: Rollback and Windows System Restore
In-Reply-To: <BA3C7D78-A12A-45E3-B70F-6F955757FB02@mac-access.net>
References: <FB7F343C-0F6E-4883-8C31-25962ED343BB@mac-access.net>
	<F8589CD7-98CC-458F-8762-18294DEF96D8@internode.on.net>
	<BA3C7D78-A12A-45E3-B70F-6F955757FB02@mac-access.net>
Message-ID: <4E9234D5.4050004@internode.on.net>

ah yep! no one is even suggesting that System Restore is a replacement 
for Rollback but think of things this way, Windows assume that people 
are using the recycle Bin so there's the avenue of retreiving files, 
again a question of "horses for courses".



On 10/10/2011 10:48 AM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:
> Hello Dane
> There is still a lot that you cannot do with System Restore, even under 7. For instance you can't, as I understand it, restore individual files. And as far as I know it isn't accessible. I could be wrong there; please somebody correct me if I am.
>
> But we'll be sticking with RollBack I think as it's a comprehensive solution. The one problem we have is with disk optimisation. We haven't as yet discovered how to use it with Diskeeper which we need to upgrade to 2011.
>
> Lynne
>
> On 10 Oct 2011, at 00:15, Dane Trethowan wrote:
>
> Rollback is an excellent utility, I use it here.
>
> I would also point out that Windows System Restore has itself come a long way in Windows 7 and provides much of the functionality of Rollback in that the System Restore can now "restore" to previous snapshots out of Windows.
>
> Again, I've not tried this and I don't know even whether this function is accessible to those without vision in the "Boot" sequence as can be done with Rollback, I just know System Restore is now capable of booting previous Windows sessions so Windows users should take ful advantage of at least what System restore has to offer, will save them a lot of pain<smile>.
>
>
> On 10/10/2011, at 9:07 AM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:
>
>> Hello everybody
>>
>> I know there are those on list who think that Gordon and I are very anti-Microsoft and anti-Windows. Actually that's not completely true; we recognise that there are advantages to the OS, just as there are disadvantages and advantages to Mac OS X.
>>
>> Anyway, recently our little NetBook fell victim to the old Windows problems and it crashed; complaining about some sort of hardware change that had apparently been made by some invisible person.
>>
>> No; this wasn't a hacker attack. The change never even occurred; I know that because at the time its network was totally disabled.
>>
>> Anyway, after a lon time sitting on the shelf in broken mode, I eventually found the time to sit down with Gordon and look at the machine. We decided to do a little more digging; and went into the system BIOS, and turned off the Asus "Boot Booster" function. Then we rebooted the machine.
>>
>> The difference was startling. Instead of turning on the machine and being in Windows within about 10 seconds, the machine booted from a truly cold reset condition. This time, up popped the menu which was missing in Boot Booster mode, that of RollBAck RX professional.
>>
>> Once this menu appeared, it allowed me to "Roll Back" the machine to a time when Windows was fixed, and running well. In a matter of about 5 minutes, our system was rolled back and running perfectly again.
>>
>> RollBack RX available from<http://www.horizondatasys.com>  (if memory serves) is one of the best Windows products on the market in the field of disaster recovery.
>>
>> I would go so far as to say that no machine should be without RollBAck if it runs Windows. It makes Microsoft's feeble System Restore look pathetic, because System Restore cannot correct pre-boot problems, as RollBAck can. If your boot config goes wrong and you only have System Restore for your defence, you could well be in for a long restore job.
>>
>> RollBack Pro RX is a product we've used for a very very long time, and we've recommended to others on this list and I know that at least one person is using it.
>>
>> Previously, Gordon tells me he had a product called "GoBAck" by Roxio. But Symantec bought that and promptly did away with it so that it wouldn't impede their sales of Norton Utilities.
>>
>> Long story; but in Windows XP SP2 and later, GoBAck would no longer function and so that was the end of that idea. But Rollback remains to this day as valuable a tool as it was 5 years ago when, apparently, Gordon started using it.
>>
>> Thanks to that software our NetBook was up and running again within about 5 minutes of being booted into the RollBack menu. Rollback does have a GUI which you can use within Windows as well. That's another nice thing about it. It's 100% accessible. The boot menu is actually quite easy for a blind person as well; you just hold down the Home key when your system boots. Then, if you want to restore your system, just cursor down once and press Enter.
>>
>> A list of restore points comes up; with the latest snapshot at the top of the list. Just cursor down to the one you want and hit enter and off you go. If you only have one baseline restore point, it will be marked as "Installation", and is the only one you cannot delete. But all you have to do to roll back to it is to cursor down once or twice and then hit enter.
>>
>> All in all, RollBAck RX Pro is well worth the money. It has saved my other half countless hours of re-installing over the years he's been using it.
>>
>> Lynne
>>
>>
>>
>> =======================================
>>
>> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free
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From grtdane at internode.on.net  Mon Oct 10 00:59:49 2011
From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane trethowan)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 10:59:49 +1100
Subject: Microsoft Windows Defender
In-Reply-To: <AA51BCE0-A7AC-4954-B797-D8DB7D420E54@mac-access.net>
References: <D93A3AE7-C3A0-49E6-8FA7-449C98FF7746@mac-access.net>	<4E91B86C.2000106@techno-chat.net>
	<1F5500CC-948E-4484-B044-D5836CA69B1C@mac-access.net>
	<4E91CEB2.6030906@techno-chat.net>
	<A8CA2FE9-7875-43FB-B909-87C54204E555@mac-access.net>
	<15942E02-F0E6-4869-BC76-0892E4A85BF0@internode.on.net>
	<82F72DEC-23B6-459E-821B-0CC6F9C22697@mac-access.net>
	<763E8E7B-879B-4DAA-A97D-10383392C965@internode.on.net>
	<08DB5D74-476D-43CD-ABA6-29751658BA56@gmail.com>
	<AA51BCE0-A7AC-4954-B797-D8DB7D420E54@mac-access.net>
Message-ID: <4E923575.4060707@internode.on.net>

Exactly right! even the developers of Vipre tell their custoemrs that 
the software isn't full-proof, that's why the additional Security 
Newsletter is published and sent to subscribers of Vipre to keep them up 
to date of threats and the like so with the combination of Newsletter 
and Vipre users can have the best tools at their disposal in preventing 
or stamping out problems if they should arise and let's face it, every 
computer user is going to have a problem of some sort in.



On 10/10/2011 10:50 AM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:
> Hello Sarah
>
> That's an incredibly dangerous assumption to make. I submit that there's probably no product which is 100% reliable. But if you read the GRC security stuff you might come away with a different perspective.
>
> Lynne
>
> On 10 Oct 2011, at 00:19, Sarah Alawami wrote:
>
> Yeah I use malware bytes and defender and both catch everything that harms my computer.
>
>
>
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>
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>
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From lynne at mac-access.net  Mon Oct 10 01:13:39 2011
From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 01:13:39 +0100
Subject: Microsoft Products and substitutes for same
In-Reply-To: <4E92345E.1010406@internode.on.net>
References: <D93A3AE7-C3A0-49E6-8FA7-449C98FF7746@mac-access.net>	<4E91B86C.2000106@techno-chat.net>
	<1F5500CC-948E-4484-B044-D5836CA69B1C@mac-access.net>
	<4E91CEB2.6030906@techno-chat.net>
	<A8CA2FE9-7875-43FB-B909-87C54204E555@mac-access.net>
	<15942E02-F0E6-4869-BC76-0892E4A85BF0@internode.on.net>
	<82F72DEC-23B6-459E-821B-0CC6F9C22697@mac-access.net>
	<763E8E7B-879B-4DAA-A97D-10383392C965@internode.on.net>
	<8FDB1669-4FF7-4697-B6F4-44C15C0BC694@mac-access.net>
	<4E92345E.1010406@internode.on.net>
Message-ID: <8C90C546-6460-42E0-B148-017A3933E985@mac-access.net>

Helo Dane

Microsoft products are very bloated for the most part. There is a lot of junk inside their self-extracting archives which a lot of people who know about this kind of stuff say simply doesn't need to be there.

As you might know, Windows itself is very messy as far as cleaning up temporary files and old registry entries are concerned. We don't plan on doing more than we have too with Windows; don't get me wrong. We migrated to the Mac so that we could escape from all the dross that Windows brings with it. But whether we like it or not there are certain tasks which you simply cannot accomplish under OSX so we have little option where they are concerned.

For instance, Braille transcription. We haven't been able to get any joy at all on the mac with that. Our Keyspan adapter has never shown us any signs of working on the Mac, and I doubt it ever will. Gordon is now getting pretty irritated by the lack of functionality in that area so we are going to have to use Windows. Our embosser has done absolutely nothing for almost 2 years now and that situation is one which we find intolerable.

DAISY publication is another area where we need Windows. There's absolutely nothing which comes close to meeting our needs on the Mac and that stuff that they did with Open Office is a bit of a joke. It's absolutely no use at all for what we need. Gordon needs to be able to control the navigation points, and all that thing does is very basic production with no level of user control at all.

As for Office, we have absolutely no intention whatsoever of installing Microsoft Office. It's a very over-rated and grossly over-priced suite of software which, although you can now buy it in separate components, is simply not worth the money.

Lynne

On 10 Oct 2011, at 00:55, Dane trethowan wrote:

Yes indeed <smiloe>.

I've never relied or been tempted to use any Microsoft products much at all, in the main they're very bulky for one thing.

I've always had trouble getting Outlook Express to work so I gave up on that.  did try Outlook 2003 at one point though it appeared to be a mess when it came to all its functions and integrating them hence I spent a lot more time using that software and wasting that time if that makes any sense.

The "Live" stuff I didn't enjoy at all and thus have found replacements for many of the "Live" utilities and functions.  for example Miranda is an excellent multi protocol chat client in much the same way as Adium for the Mac.  I can write my blogs under Windows using something called Blogjet, not the most accessible piece of software on the planet but it is usable.

I don't use Microsoft Office utilities as I've found substitutes for them, Jarte Plus for Word Processing, nothing for spreadsheet design yet and Ask Sam for database management, could also use that for Word Processing too if i wanted.

and for email? Well i use the now tried and true Thunderbird, I use NVDA a lot of the time so I'm insulated for the problems that users of Window-eyes have with this software <smile>.



On 10/10/2011 10:45 AM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:
> Hello Dane
> 
> On 10 Oct 2011, at 00:08, Dane Trethowan wrote:
> 
> Thanks, I never thought of relying on it anyway<smile>.
> 
> Just a figure of speech.
> 
> Lynne
> 
> 
> =======================================
> 
> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free
> 
> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat
> 
> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites:
> 
> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html
> 
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> <http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat at techno-chat.net>
> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
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---------------------------------------


From lynne at mac-access.net  Mon Oct 10 01:15:47 2011
From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 01:15:47 +0100
Subject: Recycle Bin
In-Reply-To: <4E9234D5.4050004@internode.on.net>
References: <FB7F343C-0F6E-4883-8C31-25962ED343BB@mac-access.net>
	<F8589CD7-98CC-458F-8762-18294DEF96D8@internode.on.net>
	<BA3C7D78-A12A-45E3-B70F-6F955757FB02@mac-access.net>
	<4E9234D5.4050004@internode.on.net>
Message-ID: <0E66543C-6B11-4315-A0FC-805AF03300F7@mac-access.net>

Hello Dane

Yes, I understand that. Actually we turned our recycle bin off as soon as we got the machine. Gordon went into the registry somehow and totally disabled the recycle bin.

Lynne

On 10 Oct 2011, at 00:57, Dane trethowan wrote:

ah yep! no one is even suggesting that System Restore is a replacement for Rollback but think of things this way, Windows assume that people are using the recycle Bin so there's the avenue of retreiving files, again a question of "horses for courses".



From grtdane at internode.on.net  Mon Oct 10 01:26:47 2011
From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane trethowan)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 11:26:47 +1100
Subject: Microsoft Products and substitutes for same
In-Reply-To: <8C90C546-6460-42E0-B148-017A3933E985@mac-access.net>
References: <D93A3AE7-C3A0-49E6-8FA7-449C98FF7746@mac-access.net>	<4E91B86C.2000106@techno-chat.net>
	<1F5500CC-948E-4484-B044-D5836CA69B1C@mac-access.net>
	<4E91CEB2.6030906@techno-chat.net>
	<A8CA2FE9-7875-43FB-B909-87C54204E555@mac-access.net>
	<15942E02-F0E6-4869-BC76-0892E4A85BF0@internode.on.net>
	<82F72DEC-23B6-459E-821B-0CC6F9C22697@mac-access.net>
	<763E8E7B-879B-4DAA-A97D-10383392C965@internode.on.net>
	<8FDB1669-4FF7-4697-B6F4-44C15C0BC694@mac-access.net>
	<4E92345E.1010406@internode.on.net>
	<8C90C546-6460-42E0-B148-017A3933E985@mac-access.net>
Message-ID: <4E923BC7.5090401@internode.on.net>

I'm not going to comment on Daisy production as its an area I'm not 
familiar with.

I have Braille embossing going on my Mac with my Keyspan adaptor and my 
Mountbattin Braille Writer, have had it going for a number of years now, 
there was document explaining how it all worked published on the Internet.

No intention of buying any Microsoft Office products either, we've 
discussed the reasons already but the other main reasons says volumes, 
all my substitute software was far cheaper than the Microsoft products 
were, in fact I doubt whehter the cost of the substitute software would 
even come to the price of one of Microsoft's "Stand-alone" Office 
applications.



On 10/10/2011 11:13 AM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:
> Helo Dane
>
> Microsoft products are very bloated for the most part. There is a lot of junk inside their self-extracting archives which a lot of people who know about this kind of stuff say simply doesn't need to be there.
>
> As you might know, Windows itself is very messy as far as cleaning up temporary files and old registry entries are concerned. We don't plan on doing more than we have too with Windows; don't get me wrong. We migrated to the Mac so that we could escape from all the dross that Windows brings with it. But whether we like it or not there are certain tasks which you simply cannot accomplish under OSX so we have little option where they are concerned.
>
> For instance, Braille transcription. We haven't been able to get any joy at all on the mac with that. Our Keyspan adapter has never shown us any signs of working on the Mac, and I doubt it ever will. Gordon is now getting pretty irritated by the lack of functionality in that area so we are going to have to use Windows. Our embosser has done absolutely nothing for almost 2 years now and that situation is one which we find intolerable.
>
> DAISY publication is another area where we need Windows. There's absolutely nothing which comes close to meeting our needs on the Mac and that stuff that they did with Open Office is a bit of a joke. It's absolutely no use at all for what we need. Gordon needs to be able to control the navigation points, and all that thing does is very basic production with no level of user control at all.
>
> As for Office, we have absolutely no intention whatsoever of installing Microsoft Office. It's a very over-rated and grossly over-priced suite of software which, although you can now buy it in separate components, is simply not worth the money.
>
> Lynne
>
> On 10 Oct 2011, at 00:55, Dane trethowan wrote:
>
> Yes indeed<smiloe>.
>
> I've never relied or been tempted to use any Microsoft products much at all, in the main they're very bulky for one thing.
>
> I've always had trouble getting Outlook Express to work so I gave up on that.  did try Outlook 2003 at one point though it appeared to be a mess when it came to all its functions and integrating them hence I spent a lot more time using that software and wasting that time if that makes any sense.
>
> The "Live" stuff I didn't enjoy at all and thus have found replacements for many of the "Live" utilities and functions.  for example Miranda is an excellent multi protocol chat client in much the same way as Adium for the Mac.  I can write my blogs under Windows using something called Blogjet, not the most accessible piece of software on the planet but it is usable.
>
> I don't use Microsoft Office utilities as I've found substitutes for them, Jarte Plus for Word Processing, nothing for spreadsheet design yet and Ask Sam for database management, could also use that for Word Processing too if i wanted.
>
> and for email? Well i use the now tried and true Thunderbird, I use NVDA a lot of the time so I'm insulated for the problems that users of Window-eyes have with this software<smile>.
>
>
>
> On 10/10/2011 10:45 AM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:
>> Hello Dane
>>
>> On 10 Oct 2011, at 00:08, Dane Trethowan wrote:
>>
>> Thanks, I never thought of relying on it anyway<smile>.
>>
>> Just a figure of speech.
>>
>> Lynne
>>
>>
>> =======================================
>>
>> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free
>>
>> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat
>>
>> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites:
>>
>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html
>>
>> Or:
>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat at techno-chat.net>
>> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat at techno-chat.net/maillist.xml>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------

-- 
sent from my HP Powerhouse Notebook.



From grtdane at internode.on.net  Mon Oct 10 01:29:24 2011
From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane trethowan)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 11:29:24 +1100
Subject: Recycle Bin
In-Reply-To: <0E66543C-6B11-4315-A0FC-805AF03300F7@mac-access.net>
References: <FB7F343C-0F6E-4883-8C31-25962ED343BB@mac-access.net>
	<F8589CD7-98CC-458F-8762-18294DEF96D8@internode.on.net>
	<BA3C7D78-A12A-45E3-B70F-6F955757FB02@mac-access.net>
	<4E9234D5.4050004@internode.on.net>
	<0E66543C-6B11-4315-A0FC-805AF03300F7@mac-access.net>
Message-ID: <4E923C64.8070601@internode.on.net>

  run a substitute for the Windows recycle Bin, its called Undelete Pro 
and is put out by the same people who develop Diskeeper, unlike the 
Recycle Bin Undelete Pro keeps every file that is deleted or moved from 
the system plus multiple versions of same if you want that functionality.

You can configure Undelete Pro to track network drives, even Mac 
formatted drives can be tracked and recorded.

Why did I bother with this utility when I have rollback? Far easier and 
quicker to use Undelete Pro to recover something than it is with 
Rollback, I don't have to tell Rollback what snapshot I wish to look 
through for example.



On 10/10/2011 11:15 AM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:
> Hello Dane
>
> Yes, I understand that. Actually we turned our recycle bin off as soon as we got the machine. Gordon went into the registry somehow and totally disabled the recycle bin.
>
> Lynne
>
> On 10 Oct 2011, at 00:57, Dane trethowan wrote:
>
> ah yep! no one is even suggesting that System Restore is a replacement for Rollback but think of things this way, Windows assume that people are using the recycle Bin so there's the avenue of retreiving files, again a question of "horses for courses".
>
>
>
> =======================================
>
> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free
>
> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat
>
> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites:
>
> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html
>
> Or:
> <http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat at techno-chat.net>
> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
> <http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat at techno-chat.net/maillist.xml>
>
> ---------------------------------------

-- 
sent from my HP Powerhouse Notebook.



From grtdane at internode.on.net  Mon Oct 10 01:43:43 2011
From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane trethowan)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 11:43:43 +1100
Subject: Microsoft Windows and the mess it leaves behind
In-Reply-To: <8C90C546-6460-42E0-B148-017A3933E985@mac-access.net>
References: <D93A3AE7-C3A0-49E6-8FA7-449C98FF7746@mac-access.net>	<4E91B86C.2000106@techno-chat.net>
	<1F5500CC-948E-4484-B044-D5836CA69B1C@mac-access.net>
	<4E91CEB2.6030906@techno-chat.net>
	<A8CA2FE9-7875-43FB-B909-87C54204E555@mac-access.net>
	<15942E02-F0E6-4869-BC76-0892E4A85BF0@internode.on.net>
	<82F72DEC-23B6-459E-821B-0CC6F9C22697@mac-access.net>
	<763E8E7B-879B-4DAA-A97D-10383392C965@internode.on.net>
	<8FDB1669-4FF7-4697-B6F4-44C15C0BC694@mac-access.net>
	<4E92345E.1010406@internode.on.net>
	<8C90C546-6460-42E0-B148-017A3933E985@mac-access.net>
Message-ID: <4E923FBF.7000800@internode.on.net>

ah well you see that's where third party utilities such as CCleaner come 
into their own, you may remember I discussed the CCleaner version for 
the Mac on the mac-access list, CCleaner for Windows has been around for 
years.

unlike a lot of these sorts of utilities its completely customisable 
thus you can configure and monitor what it does, what it cleans and so on.

I use something here called Tune-Up Utilities to maintain my windows 
Machines, when I bought Vipre Anti Virus Premium I just happened to be 
lucky enough to buy the Tune-Up Utilities software which came bundled as 
an offer for 3 PC's at the time.

this software is very accessible and again very customisable, if I had 
to compare Tune-Up Utilities to anything then the best comparison I 
could make is to the older versions of Norton Utilities back in the late 
80s early 90s when the package was a suite of utilities, all of which 
could do a different job or which could be entigrated to work as part of 
a "control Centre" thus automating many tasks.

I appreciate that there is nothing like a good edit of the Registry 
every now and then but the fact is that such a task is dangerous and can 
easily bring a system down so I certainly wouldn't recommend anyone try 
it unless you're absolutely sure of what you're doing or unless you're 
running Rollback, System restore etc.



On 10/10/2011 11:13 AM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:
> Helo Dane
>
> Microsoft products are very bloated for the most part. There is a lot of junk inside their self-extracting archives which a lot of people who know about this kind of stuff say simply doesn't need to be there.
>
> As you might know, Windows itself is very messy as far as cleaning up temporary files and old registry entries are concerned. We don't plan on doing more than we have too with Windows; don't get me wrong. We migrated to the Mac so that we could escape from all the dross that Windows brings with it. But whether we like it or not there are certain tasks which you simply cannot accomplish under OSX so we have little option where they are concerned.
>
> For instance, Braille transcription. We haven't been able to get any joy at all on the mac with that. Our Keyspan adapter has never shown us any signs of working on the Mac, and I doubt it ever will. Gordon is now getting pretty irritated by the lack of functionality in that area so we are going to have to use Windows. Our embosser has done absolutely nothing for almost 2 years now and that situation is one which we find intolerable.
>
> DAISY publication is another area where we need Windows. There's absolutely nothing which comes close to meeting our needs on the Mac and that stuff that they did with Open Office is a bit of a joke. It's absolutely no use at all for what we need. Gordon needs to be able to control the navigation points, and all that thing does is very basic production with no level of user control at all.
>
> As for Office, we have absolutely no intention whatsoever of installing Microsoft Office. It's a very over-rated and grossly over-priced suite of software which, although you can now buy it in separate components, is simply not worth the money.
>
> Lynne
>
> On 10 Oct 2011, at 00:55, Dane trethowan wrote:
>
> Yes indeed<smiloe>.
>
> I've never relied or been tempted to use any Microsoft products much at all, in the main they're very bulky for one thing.
>
> I've always had trouble getting Outlook Express to work so I gave up on that.  did try Outlook 2003 at one point though it appeared to be a mess when it came to all its functions and integrating them hence I spent a lot more time using that software and wasting that time if that makes any sense.
>
> The "Live" stuff I didn't enjoy at all and thus have found replacements for many of the "Live" utilities and functions.  for example Miranda is an excellent multi protocol chat client in much the same way as Adium for the Mac.  I can write my blogs under Windows using something called Blogjet, not the most accessible piece of software on the planet but it is usable.
>
> I don't use Microsoft Office utilities as I've found substitutes for them, Jarte Plus for Word Processing, nothing for spreadsheet design yet and Ask Sam for database management, could also use that for Word Processing too if i wanted.
>
> and for email? Well i use the now tried and true Thunderbird, I use NVDA a lot of the time so I'm insulated for the problems that users of Window-eyes have with this software<smile>.
>
>
>
> On 10/10/2011 10:45 AM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:
>> Hello Dane
>>
>> On 10 Oct 2011, at 00:08, Dane Trethowan wrote:
>>
>> Thanks, I never thought of relying on it anyway<smile>.
>>
>> Just a figure of speech.
>>
>> Lynne
>>
>>
>> =======================================
>>
>> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free
>>
>> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat
>>
>> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites:
>>
>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html
>>
>> Or:
>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat at techno-chat.net>
>> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat at techno-chat.net/maillist.xml>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------

-- 
sent from my HP Powerhouse Notebook.



From lynne at mac-access.net  Mon Oct 10 01:44:11 2011
From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 01:44:11 +0100
Subject: Microsoft Products and substitutes for same
In-Reply-To: <4E923BC7.5090401@internode.on.net>
References: <D93A3AE7-C3A0-49E6-8FA7-449C98FF7746@mac-access.net>	<4E91B86C.2000106@techno-chat.net>
	<1F5500CC-948E-4484-B044-D5836CA69B1C@mac-access.net>
	<4E91CEB2.6030906@techno-chat.net>
	<A8CA2FE9-7875-43FB-B909-87C54204E555@mac-access.net>
	<15942E02-F0E6-4869-BC76-0892E4A85BF0@internode.on.net>
	<82F72DEC-23B6-459E-821B-0CC6F9C22697@mac-access.net>
	<763E8E7B-879B-4DAA-A97D-10383392C965@internode.on.net>
	<8FDB1669-4FF7-4697-B6F4-44C15C0BC694@mac-access.net>
	<4E92345E.1010406@internode.on.net>
	<8C90C546-6460-42E0-B148-017A3933E985@mac-access.net>
	<4E923BC7.5090401@internode.on.net>
Message-ID: <EDF5FBB3-5B87-4980-A8D2-BAB05A9448AD@mac-access.net>

Hello Dane

We have Dolphin Publisher for DAISY and it's the best publisher package in the world. It gives you absolute control over absolutely every function of your DAISY recording and it can synchronise human reading with on-screen text in real time. So what you finish up with is a book read by a person and on the screen the text is displayed and scrolls at the exact speed that the voice reads. I did that for Gordon with one of the Jennings books, and the results were spectacular. I'm trying to get hold of more of those books, but that's a matter for another time and another place.

As for the Braille, yes; I know about your embosser. But ours is a different system. Unfortunately it's somewhat older than yours, the label says it was made in April 2001. it doesn't have USB on it, nor does it have Ethernet. So it's kind of difficult to use on the Mac. I bought a Keyspan adapter, on the advice of members of our other group. But I never got it to work on the Mac at all; it's just not visible.

Be that as it may, we now have to try and get it all set up on Windows. We have DBT for Windows, (version 11.1) and if we can get the adapter to play nice Gordon has a heap if things he needs to emboss.

As for Office I think we are on the same page. I refuse to pay those extortionate prices for software. Microsoft is pricing itself out of the market, in my opinion. There are alternatives for both Mac and Windows which will do just about everything you can do with Office and buying the whole lot of them together for both platforms would still leave you paying less than you'd pay for Office.

Lynne



On 10 Oct 2011, at 01:26, Dane trethowan wrote:

I'm not going to comment on Daisy production as its an area I'm not familiar with.

I have Braille embossing going on my Mac with my Keyspan adaptor and my Mountbattin Braille Writer, have had it going for a number of years now, there was document explaining how it all worked published on the Internet.

No intention of buying any Microsoft Office products either, we've discussed the reasons already but the other main reasons says volumes, all my substitute software was far cheaper than the Microsoft products were, in fact I doubt whehter the cost of the substitute software would even come to the price of one of Microsoft's "Stand-alone" Office applications.



On 10/10/2011 11:13 AM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:
> Helo Dane
> 
> Microsoft products are very bloated for the most part. There is a lot of junk inside their self-extracting archives which a lot of people who know about this kind of stuff say simply doesn't need to be there.
> 
> As you might know, Windows itself is very messy as far as cleaning up temporary files and old registry entries are concerned. We don't plan on doing more than we have too with Windows; don't get me wrong. We migrated to the Mac so that we could escape from all the dross that Windows brings with it. But whether we like it or not there are certain tasks which you simply cannot accomplish under OSX so we have little option where they are concerned.
> 
> For instance, Braille transcription. We haven't been able to get any joy at all on the mac with that. Our Keyspan adapter has never shown us any signs of working on the Mac, and I doubt it ever will. Gordon is now getting pretty irritated by the lack of functionality in that area so we are going to have to use Windows. Our embosser has done absolutely nothing for almost 2 years now and that situation is one which we find intolerable.
> 
> DAISY publication is another area where we need Windows. There's absolutely nothing which comes close to meeting our needs on the Mac and that stuff that they did with Open Office is a bit of a joke. It's absolutely no use at all for what we need. Gordon needs to be able to control the navigation points, and all that thing does is very basic production with no level of user control at all.
> 
> As for Office, we have absolutely no intention whatsoever of installing Microsoft Office. It's a very over-rated and grossly over-priced suite of software which, although you can now buy it in separate components, is simply not worth the money.
> 
> Lynne
> 
> On 10 Oct 2011, at 00:55, Dane trethowan wrote:
> 
> Yes indeed<smiloe>.
> 
> I've never relied or been tempted to use any Microsoft products much at all, in the main they're very bulky for one thing.
> 
> I've always had trouble getting Outlook Express to work so I gave up on that.  did try Outlook 2003 at one point though it appeared to be a mess when it came to all its functions and integrating them hence I spent a lot more time using that software and wasting that time if that makes any sense.
> 
> The "Live" stuff I didn't enjoy at all and thus have found replacements for many of the "Live" utilities and functions.  for example Miranda is an excellent multi protocol chat client in much the same way as Adium for the Mac.  I can write my blogs under Windows using something called Blogjet, not the most accessible piece of software on the planet but it is usable.
> 
> I don't use Microsoft Office utilities as I've found substitutes for them, Jarte Plus for Word Processing, nothing for spreadsheet design yet and Ask Sam for database management, could also use that for Word Processing too if i wanted.
> 
> and for email? Well i use the now tried and true Thunderbird, I use NVDA a lot of the time so I'm insulated for the problems that users of Window-eyes have with this software<smile>.
> 
> 
> 
> On 10/10/2011 10:45 AM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:
>> Hello Dane
>> 
>> On 10 Oct 2011, at 00:08, Dane Trethowan wrote:
>> 
>> Thanks, I never thought of relying on it anyway<smile>.
>> 
>> Just a figure of speech.
>> 
>> Lynne
>> 
>> 
>> =======================================
>> 
>> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free
>> 
>> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat
>> 
>> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites:
>> 
>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html
>> 
>> Or:
>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat at techno-chat.net>
>> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat at techno-chat.net/maillist.xml>
>> 
>> ---------------------------------------

-- 
sent from my HP Powerhouse Notebook.



=======================================

The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free

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---------------------------------------


From lynne at mac-access.net  Mon Oct 10 01:48:53 2011
From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 01:48:53 +0100
Subject: Recycle Bin
In-Reply-To: <4E923C64.8070601@internode.on.net>
References: <FB7F343C-0F6E-4883-8C31-25962ED343BB@mac-access.net>
	<F8589CD7-98CC-458F-8762-18294DEF96D8@internode.on.net>
	<BA3C7D78-A12A-45E3-B70F-6F955757FB02@mac-access.net>
	<4E9234D5.4050004@internode.on.net>
	<0E66543C-6B11-4315-A0FC-805AF03300F7@mac-access.net>
	<4E923C64.8070601@internode.on.net>
Message-ID: <388560BD-90A0-4F37-8DBA-5771C65A53B1@mac-access.net>

hello Dane

To be utterly honest, I fail to see the point of an undelete programme at all, even the recycle bin. Well yes, I guess you could easily delete something by accident. But I certainly wouldn't want all that stuff kept on the drive. What's the point? If you get into the habit of keeping regular backups you'll be alright I think. But that's just my perspective.

Lynne


On 10 Oct 2011, at 01:29, Dane trethowan wrote:

run a substitute for the Windows recycle Bin, its called Undelete Pro and is put out by the same people who develop Diskeeper, unlike the Recycle Bin Undelete Pro keeps every file that is deleted or moved from the system plus multiple versions of same if you want that functionality.

You can configure Undelete Pro to track network drives, even Mac formatted drives can be tracked and recorded.

Why did I bother with this utility when I have rollback? Far easier and quicker to use Undelete Pro to recover something than it is with Rollback, I don't have to tell Rollback what snapshot I wish to look through for example.



On 10/10/2011 11:15 AM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:
> Hello Dane
> 
> Yes, I understand that. Actually we turned our recycle bin off as soon as we got the machine. Gordon went into the registry somehow and totally disabled the recycle bin.
> 
> Lynne
> 
> On 10 Oct 2011, at 00:57, Dane trethowan wrote:
> 
> ah yep! no one is even suggesting that System Restore is a replacement for Rollback but think of things this way, Windows assume that people are using the recycle Bin so there's the avenue of retreiving files, again a question of "horses for courses".
> 
> 
> 
> =======================================
> 
> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free
> 
> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat
> 
> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites:
> 
> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html
> 
> Or:
> <http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat at techno-chat.net>
> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
> <http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat at techno-chat.net/maillist.xml>
> 
> ---------------------------------------

-- 
sent from my HP Powerhouse Notebook.



=======================================

The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free

To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
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You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites:

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you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
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---------------------------------------


From grtdane at internode.on.net  Mon Oct 10 01:51:05 2011
From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane trethowan)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 11:51:05 +1100
Subject: Mountbattin Braille Writer and embossing Braille
In-Reply-To: <EDF5FBB3-5B87-4980-A8D2-BAB05A9448AD@mac-access.net>
References: <D93A3AE7-C3A0-49E6-8FA7-449C98FF7746@mac-access.net>	<4E91B86C.2000106@techno-chat.net>
	<1F5500CC-948E-4484-B044-D5836CA69B1C@mac-access.net>
	<4E91CEB2.6030906@techno-chat.net>
	<A8CA2FE9-7875-43FB-B909-87C54204E555@mac-access.net>
	<15942E02-F0E6-4869-BC76-0892E4A85BF0@internode.on.net>
	<82F72DEC-23B6-459E-821B-0CC6F9C22697@mac-access.net>
	<763E8E7B-879B-4DAA-A97D-10383392C965@internode.on.net>
	<8FDB1669-4FF7-4697-B6F4-44C15C0BC694@mac-access.net>
	<4E92345E.1010406@internode.on.net>
	<8C90C546-6460-42E0-B148-017A3933E985@mac-access.net>
	<4E923BC7.5090401@internode.on.net>
	<EDF5FBB3-5B87-4980-A8D2-BAB05A9448AD@mac-access.net>
Message-ID: <4E924179.9080301@internode.on.net>

Actually the circuits for the Mountbattin Braille Writer go back further 
than your embosser does.

The Mountbattin Braille Writer - or at least my model - has a USB port 
but I never managed to get this working under the Mac so hence the 
purchase of the Keyspan USB to serial adaptor, that way I can have the 
Mac communicate directly through the serial ports of the Mountbattin 
which themselves are very configurable to the point of being able to 
"dump" text from just about any computer or note taking device on the 
planet and have it embossed, stored to memory for editing on the 
Mountbattin, transferred from the Mountbattin to another computer etc.

I'm not saying one system is better than another, they're totaly 
different so I'm just making some points about my setup.



On 10/10/2011 11:44 AM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:
> Hello Dane
>
> We have Dolphin Publisher for DAISY and it's the best publisher package in the world. It gives you absolute control over absolutely every function of your DAISY recording and it can synchronise human reading with on-screen text in real time. So what you finish up with is a book read by a person and on the screen the text is displayed and scrolls at the exact speed that the voice reads. I did that for Gordon with one of the Jennings books, and the results were spectacular. I'm trying to get hold of more of those books, but that's a matter for another time and another place.
>
> As for the Braille, yes; I know about your embosser. But ours is a different system. Unfortunately it's somewhat older than yours, the label says it was made in April 2001. it doesn't have USB on it, nor does it have Ethernet. So it's kind of difficult to use on the Mac. I bought a Keyspan adapter, on the advice of members of our other group. But I never got it to work on the Mac at all; it's just not visible.
>
> Be that as it may, we now have to try and get it all set up on Windows. We have DBT for Windows, (version 11.1) and if we can get the adapter to play nice Gordon has a heap if things he needs to emboss.
>
> As for Office I think we are on the same page. I refuse to pay those extortionate prices for software. Microsoft is pricing itself out of the market, in my opinion. There are alternatives for both Mac and Windows which will do just about everything you can do with Office and buying the whole lot of them together for both platforms would still leave you paying less than you'd pay for Office.
>
> Lynne
>
>
>
> On 10 Oct 2011, at 01:26, Dane trethowan wrote:
>
> I'm not going to comment on Daisy production as its an area I'm not familiar with.
>
> I have Braille embossing going on my Mac with my Keyspan adaptor and my Mountbattin Braille Writer, have had it going for a number of years now, there was document explaining how it all worked published on the Internet.
>
> No intention of buying any Microsoft Office products either, we've discussed the reasons already but the other main reasons says volumes, all my substitute software was far cheaper than the Microsoft products were, in fact I doubt whehter the cost of the substitute software would even come to the price of one of Microsoft's "Stand-alone" Office applications.
>
>
>
> On 10/10/2011 11:13 AM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:
>> Helo Dane
>>
>> Microsoft products are very bloated for the most part. There is a lot of junk inside their self-extracting archives which a lot of people who know about this kind of stuff say simply doesn't need to be there.
>>
>> As you might know, Windows itself is very messy as far as cleaning up temporary files and old registry entries are concerned. We don't plan on doing more than we have too with Windows; don't get me wrong. We migrated to the Mac so that we could escape from all the dross that Windows brings with it. But whether we like it or not there are certain tasks which you simply cannot accomplish under OSX so we have little option where they are concerned.
>>
>> For instance, Braille transcription. We haven't been able to get any joy at all on the mac with that. Our Keyspan adapter has never shown us any signs of working on the Mac, and I doubt it ever will. Gordon is now getting pretty irritated by the lack of functionality in that area so we are going to have to use Windows. Our embosser has done absolutely nothing for almost 2 years now and that situation is one which we find intolerable.
>>
>> DAISY publication is another area where we need Windows. There's absolutely nothing which comes close to meeting our needs on the Mac and that stuff that they did with Open Office is a bit of a joke. It's absolutely no use at all for what we need. Gordon needs to be able to control the navigation points, and all that thing does is very basic production with no level of user control at all.
>>
>> As for Office, we have absolutely no intention whatsoever of installing Microsoft Office. It's a very over-rated and grossly over-priced suite of software which, although you can now buy it in separate components, is simply not worth the money.
>>
>> Lynne
>>
>> On 10 Oct 2011, at 00:55, Dane trethowan wrote:
>>
>> Yes indeed<smiloe>.
>>
>> I've never relied or been tempted to use any Microsoft products much at all, in the main they're very bulky for one thing.
>>
>> I've always had trouble getting Outlook Express to work so I gave up on that.  did try Outlook 2003 at one point though it appeared to be a mess when it came to all its functions and integrating them hence I spent a lot more time using that software and wasting that time if that makes any sense.
>>
>> The "Live" stuff I didn't enjoy at all and thus have found replacements for many of the "Live" utilities and functions.  for example Miranda is an excellent multi protocol chat client in much the same way as Adium for the Mac.  I can write my blogs under Windows using something called Blogjet, not the most accessible piece of software on the planet but it is usable.
>>
>> I don't use Microsoft Office utilities as I've found substitutes for them, Jarte Plus for Word Processing, nothing for spreadsheet design yet and Ask Sam for database management, could also use that for Word Processing too if i wanted.
>>
>> and for email? Well i use the now tried and true Thunderbird, I use NVDA a lot of the time so I'm insulated for the problems that users of Window-eyes have with this software<smile>.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 10/10/2011 10:45 AM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:
>>> Hello Dane
>>>
>>> On 10 Oct 2011, at 00:08, Dane Trethowan wrote:
>>>
>>> Thanks, I never thought of relying on it anyway<smile>.
>>>
>>> Just a figure of speech.
>>>
>>> Lynne
>>>
>>>
>>> =======================================
>>>
>>> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free
>>>
>>> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
>>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat
>>>
>>> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites:
>>>
>>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html
>>>
>>> Or:
>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat at techno-chat.net>
>>> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat at techno-chat.net/maillist.xml>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------

-- 
sent from my HP Powerhouse Notebook.



From lynne at mac-access.net  Mon Oct 10 01:54:01 2011
From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 01:54:01 +0100
Subject: Microsoft Windows and the mess it leaves behind
In-Reply-To: <4E923FBF.7000800@internode.on.net>
References: <D93A3AE7-C3A0-49E6-8FA7-449C98FF7746@mac-access.net>	<4E91B86C.2000106@techno-chat.net>
	<1F5500CC-948E-4484-B044-D5836CA69B1C@mac-access.net>
	<4E91CEB2.6030906@techno-chat.net>
	<A8CA2FE9-7875-43FB-B909-87C54204E555@mac-access.net>
	<15942E02-F0E6-4869-BC76-0892E4A85BF0@internode.on.net>
	<82F72DEC-23B6-459E-821B-0CC6F9C22697@mac-access.net>
	<763E8E7B-879B-4DAA-A97D-10383392C965@internode.on.net>
	<8FDB1669-4FF7-4697-B6F4-44C15C0BC694@mac-access.net>
	<4E92345E.1010406@internode.on.net>
	<8C90C546-6460-42E0-B148-017A3933E985@mac-access.net>
	<4E923FBF.7000800@internode.on.net>
Message-ID: <02C8CE9F-AA86-44D1-A1F0-73B10DB5C151@mac-access.net>

Hello Dane

This again is just personal perspective. But we don't want to get too bobbed down with all this Windows stuff. For us, Windows is a very very limited time OS. In other words, we'll use it when we have too, but nothing more. It won't be used for mail, web browsing, any of that kind of stuff because to be honest we just don't need it.

All we want it for is Braille, DAYSY, and maybe the odd bit of audio CD ripping.

Lynne

On 10 Oct 2011, at 01:43, Dane trethowan wrote:

ah well you see that's where third party utilities such as CCleaner come into their own, you may remember I discussed the CCleaner version for the Mac on the mac-access list, CCleaner for Windows has been around for years.

unlike a lot of these sorts of utilities its completely customisable thus you can configure and monitor what it does, what it cleans and so on.

I use something here called Tune-Up Utilities to maintain my windows Machines, when I bought Vipre Anti Virus Premium I just happened to be lucky enough to buy the Tune-Up Utilities software which came bundled as an offer for 3 PC's at the time.

this software is very accessible and again very customisable, if I had to compare Tune-Up Utilities to anything then the best comparison I could make is to the older versions of Norton Utilities back in the late 80s early 90s when the package was a suite of utilities, all of which could do a different job or which could be entigrated to work as part of a "control Centre" thus automating many tasks.

I appreciate that there is nothing like a good edit of the Registry every now and then but the fact is that such a task is dangerous and can easily bring a system down so I certainly wouldn't recommend anyone try it unless you're absolutely sure of what you're doing or unless you're running Rollback, System restore etc.


From lynne at mac-access.net  Mon Oct 10 01:55:13 2011
From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 01:55:13 +0100
Subject: Mountbattin Braille Writer and embossing Braille
In-Reply-To: <4E924179.9080301@internode.on.net>
References: <D93A3AE7-C3A0-49E6-8FA7-449C98FF7746@mac-access.net>	<4E91B86C.2000106@techno-chat.net>
	<1F5500CC-948E-4484-B044-D5836CA69B1C@mac-access.net>
	<4E91CEB2.6030906@techno-chat.net>
	<A8CA2FE9-7875-43FB-B909-87C54204E555@mac-access.net>
	<15942E02-F0E6-4869-BC76-0892E4A85BF0@internode.on.net>
	<82F72DEC-23B6-459E-821B-0CC6F9C22697@mac-access.net>
	<763E8E7B-879B-4DAA-A97D-10383392C965@internode.on.net>
	<8FDB1669-4FF7-4697-B6F4-44C15C0BC694@mac-access.net>
	<4E92345E.1010406@internode.on.net>
	<8C90C546-6460-42E0-B148-017A3933E985@mac-access.net>
	<4E923BC7.5090401@internode.on.net>
	<EDF5FBB3-5B87-4980-A8D2-BAB05A9448AD@mac-access.net>
	<4E924179.9080301@internode.on.net>
Message-ID: <1D90F097-178A-4F07-A967-1BEA70425A62@mac-access.net>

I'm not disputing that, but the point is that the model we have doesn't have the right ports. Simple and strait forward as that.


On 10 Oct 2011, at 01:51, Dane trethowan wrote:

Actually the circuits for the Mountbattin Braille Writer go back further than your embosser does.

The Mountbattin Braille Writer - or at least my model - has a USB port but I never managed to get this working under the Mac so hence the purchase of the Keyspan USB to serial adaptor, that way I can have the Mac communicate directly through the serial ports of the Mountbattin which themselves are very configurable to the point of being able to "dump" text from just about any computer or note taking device on the planet and have it embossed, stored to memory for editing on the Mountbattin, transferred from the Mountbattin to another computer etc.

I'm not saying one system is better than another, they're totaly different so I'm just making some points about my setup.



On 10/10/2011 11:44 AM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:
> Hello Dane
> 
> We have Dolphin Publisher for DAISY and it's the best publisher package in the world. It gives you absolute control over absolutely every function of your DAISY recording and it can synchronise human reading with on-screen text in real time. So what you finish up with is a book read by a person and on the screen the text is displayed and scrolls at the exact speed that the voice reads. I did that for Gordon with one of the Jennings books, and the results were spectacular. I'm trying to get hold of more of those books, but that's a matter for another time and another place.
> 
> As for the Braille, yes; I know about your embosser. But ours is a different system. Unfortunately it's somewhat older than yours, the label says it was made in April 2001. it doesn't have USB on it, nor does it have Ethernet. So it's kind of difficult to use on the Mac. I bought a Keyspan adapter, on the advice of members of our other group. But I never got it to work on the Mac at all; it's just not visible.
> 
> Be that as it may, we now have to try and get it all set up on Windows. We have DBT for Windows, (version 11.1) and if we can get the adapter to play nice Gordon has a heap if things he needs to emboss.
> 
> As for Office I think we are on the same page. I refuse to pay those extortionate prices for software. Microsoft is pricing itself out of the market, in my opinion. There are alternatives for both Mac and Windows which will do just about everything you can do with Office and buying the whole lot of them together for both platforms would still leave you paying less than you'd pay for Office.
> 
> Lynne
> 
> 
> 
> On 10 Oct 2011, at 01:26, Dane trethowan wrote:
> 
> I'm not going to comment on Daisy production as its an area I'm not familiar with.
> 
> I have Braille embossing going on my Mac with my Keyspan adaptor and my Mountbattin Braille Writer, have had it going for a number of years now, there was document explaining how it all worked published on the Internet.
> 
> No intention of buying any Microsoft Office products either, we've discussed the reasons already but the other main reasons says volumes, all my substitute software was far cheaper than the Microsoft products were, in fact I doubt whehter the cost of the substitute software would even come to the price of one of Microsoft's "Stand-alone" Office applications.
> 
> 
> 
> On 10/10/2011 11:13 AM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:
>> Helo Dane
>> 
>> Microsoft products are very bloated for the most part. There is a lot of junk inside their self-extracting archives which a lot of people who know about this kind of stuff say simply doesn't need to be there.
>> 
>> As you might know, Windows itself is very messy as far as cleaning up temporary files and old registry entries are concerned. We don't plan on doing more than we have too with Windows; don't get me wrong. We migrated to the Mac so that we could escape from all the dross that Windows brings with it. But whether we like it or not there are certain tasks which you simply cannot accomplish under OSX so we have little option where they are concerned.
>> 
>> For instance, Braille transcription. We haven't been able to get any joy at all on the mac with that. Our Keyspan adapter has never shown us any signs of working on the Mac, and I doubt it ever will. Gordon is now getting pretty irritated by the lack of functionality in that area so we are going to have to use Windows. Our embosser has done absolutely nothing for almost 2 years now and that situation is one which we find intolerable.
>> 
>> DAISY publication is another area where we need Windows. There's absolutely nothing which comes close to meeting our needs on the Mac and that stuff that they did with Open Office is a bit of a joke. It's absolutely no use at all for what we need. Gordon needs to be able to control the navigation points, and all that thing does is very basic production with no level of user control at all.
>> 
>> As for Office, we have absolutely no intention whatsoever of installing Microsoft Office. It's a very over-rated and grossly over-priced suite of software which, although you can now buy it in separate components, is simply not worth the money.
>> 
>> Lynne
>> 
>> On 10 Oct 2011, at 00:55, Dane trethowan wrote:
>> 
>> Yes indeed<smiloe>.
>> 
>> I've never relied or been tempted to use any Microsoft products much at all, in the main they're very bulky for one thing.
>> 
>> I've always had trouble getting Outlook Express to work so I gave up on that.  did try Outlook 2003 at one point though it appeared to be a mess when it came to all its functions and integrating them hence I spent a lot more time using that software and wasting that time if that makes any sense.
>> 
>> The "Live" stuff I didn't enjoy at all and thus have found replacements for many of the "Live" utilities and functions.  for example Miranda is an excellent multi protocol chat client in much the same way as Adium for the Mac.  I can write my blogs under Windows using something called Blogjet, not the most accessible piece of software on the planet but it is usable.
>> 
>> I don't use Microsoft Office utilities as I've found substitutes for them, Jarte Plus for Word Processing, nothing for spreadsheet design yet and Ask Sam for database management, could also use that for Word Processing too if i wanted.
>> 
>> and for email? Well i use the now tried and true Thunderbird, I use NVDA a lot of the time so I'm insulated for the problems that users of Window-eyes have with this software<smile>.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 10/10/2011 10:45 AM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:
>>> Hello Dane
>>> 
>>> On 10 Oct 2011, at 00:08, Dane Trethowan wrote:
>>> 
>>> Thanks, I never thought of relying on it anyway<smile>.
>>> 
>>> Just a figure of speech.
>>> 
>>> Lynne
>>> 
>>> 
>>> =======================================
>>> 
>>> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free
>>> 
>>> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
>>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat
>>> 
>>> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites:
>>> 
>>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html
>>> 
>>> Or:
>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat at techno-chat.net>
>>> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat at techno-chat.net/maillist.xml>
>>> 
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-- 
sent from my HP Powerhouse Notebook.



=======================================

The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free

To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat

You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites:

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Or:
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---------------------------------------


From grtdane at internode.on.net  Mon Oct 10 01:55:29 2011
From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane trethowan)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 11:55:29 +1100
Subject: Recycle Bin
In-Reply-To: <388560BD-90A0-4F37-8DBA-5771C65A53B1@mac-access.net>
References: <FB7F343C-0F6E-4883-8C31-25962ED343BB@mac-access.net>
	<F8589CD7-98CC-458F-8762-18294DEF96D8@internode.on.net>
	<BA3C7D78-A12A-45E3-B70F-6F955757FB02@mac-access.net>
	<4E9234D5.4050004@internode.on.net>
	<0E66543C-6B11-4315-A0FC-805AF03300F7@mac-access.net>
	<4E923C64.8070601@internode.on.net>
	<388560BD-90A0-4F37-8DBA-5771C65A53B1@mac-access.net>
Message-ID: <4E924281.7060903@internode.on.net>

Well you see, its easy to reach such a perspective if you know nothing 
about how Undelete Pro works <smile..

I did say that the software was fully customisable thus you have many 
options at your disposal in how you handle your files, you can set 
Undelete Pro to delete files if they've not been used for several weeks, 
days, months etc.  You can set a portion of your hard drive so as to 
avoid clutter or you can set up a whole drive for the purpose of file 
monitoring, the choice is yours.

It can be argued also that Rollback can take up a lot of unecessary 
space, just see how much space multiple snapshots use after aperiod of 
time and you'll udnerstand what I'm getting at.

Undelete Pro is handy when I'm doing a lot of editing work, mistakes can 
happen and I can retrieve a whole batch of files - hundreds of files - 
in a matter of seconds thus I have the material to start my job again with.



On 10/10/2011 11:48 AM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:
> hello Dane
>
> To be utterly honest, I fail to see the point of an undelete programme at all, even the recycle bin. Well yes, I guess you could easily delete something by accident. But I certainly wouldn't want all that stuff kept on the drive. What's the point? If you get into the habit of keeping regular backups you'll be alright I think. But that's just my perspective.
>
> Lynne
>
>
> On 10 Oct 2011, at 01:29, Dane trethowan wrote:
>
> run a substitute for the Windows recycle Bin, its called Undelete Pro and is put out by the same people who develop Diskeeper, unlike the Recycle Bin Undelete Pro keeps every file that is deleted or moved from the system plus multiple versions of same if you want that functionality.
>
> You can configure Undelete Pro to track network drives, even Mac formatted drives can be tracked and recorded.
>
> Why did I bother with this utility when I have rollback? Far easier and quicker to use Undelete Pro to recover something than it is with Rollback, I don't have to tell Rollback what snapshot I wish to look through for example.
>
>
>
> On 10/10/2011 11:15 AM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:
>> Hello Dane
>>
>> Yes, I understand that. Actually we turned our recycle bin off as soon as we got the machine. Gordon went into the registry somehow and totally disabled the recycle bin.
>>
>> Lynne
>>
>> On 10 Oct 2011, at 00:57, Dane trethowan wrote:
>>
>> ah yep! no one is even suggesting that System Restore is a replacement for Rollback but think of things this way, Windows assume that people are using the recycle Bin so there's the avenue of retreiving files, again a question of "horses for courses".
>>
>>
>>
>> =======================================
>>
>> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free
>>
>> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat
>>
>> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites:
>>
>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html
>>
>> Or:
>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat at techno-chat.net>
>> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat at techno-chat.net/maillist.xml>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------

-- 
sent from my HP Powerhouse Notebook.



From juanitatighan at gmail.com  Mon Oct 10 01:51:05 2011
From: juanitatighan at gmail.com (Jane)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2011 20:51:05 -0400
Subject: Microsoft Products and substitutes for same
In-Reply-To: <EDF5FBB3-5B87-4980-A8D2-BAB05A9448AD@mac-access.net>
References: <D93A3AE7-C3A0-49E6-8FA7-449C98FF7746@mac-access.net>	<4E91B86C.2000106@techno-chat.net>
	<1F5500CC-948E-4484-B044-D5836CA69B1C@mac-access.net>
	<4E91CEB2.6030906@techno-chat.net>
	<A8CA2FE9-7875-43FB-B909-87C54204E555@mac-access.net>
	<15942E02-F0E6-4869-BC76-0892E4A85BF0@internode.on.net>
	<82F72DEC-23B6-459E-821B-0CC6F9C22697@mac-access.net>
	<763E8E7B-879B-4DAA-A97D-10383392C965@internode.on.net>
	<8FDB1669-4FF7-4697-B6F4-44C15C0BC694@mac-access.net>
	<4E92345E.1010406@internode.on.net>
	<8C90C546-6460-42E0-B148-017A3933E985@mac-access.net>
	<4E923BC7.5090401@internode.on.net>
	<EDF5FBB3-5B87-4980-A8D2-BAB05A9448AD@mac-access.net>
Message-ID: <A7385436-81BD-4F2A-A7FA-0B1117A298C6@gmail.com>

Where can I fid out more info about this Dolphon DAISY book maker? I want to invest or somehow get something like that for my daughter to help her with reading.  I want to take etexts and sync them with audio so she can play it and read.

Jane




On Oct 9, 2011, at 8:44 PM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:

> Hello Dane
> 
> We have Dolphin Publisher for DAISY and it's the best publisher package in the world. It gives you absolute control over absolutely every function of your DAISY recording and it can synchronise human reading with on-screen text in real time. So what you finish up with is a book read by a person and on the screen the text is displayed and scrolls at the exact speed that the voice reads. I did that for Gordon with one of the Jennings books, and the results were spectacular. I'm trying to get hold of more of those books, but that's a matter for another time and another place.
> 
> As for the Braille, yes; I know about your embosser. But ours is a different system. Unfortunately it's somewhat older than yours, the label says it was made in April 2001. it doesn't have USB on it, nor does it have Ethernet. So it's kind of difficult to use on the Mac. I bought a Keyspan adapter, on the advice of members of our other group. But I never got it to work on the Mac at all; it's just not visible.
> 
> Be that as it may, we now have to try and get it all set up on Windows. We have DBT for Windows, (version 11.1) and if we can get the adapter to play nice Gordon has a heap if things he needs to emboss.
> 
> As for Office I think we are on the same page. I refuse to pay those extortionate prices for software. Microsoft is pricing itself out of the market, in my opinion. There are alternatives for both Mac and Windows which will do just about everything you can do with Office and buying the whole lot of them together for both platforms would still leave you paying less than you'd pay for Office.
> 
> Lynne
> 
> 
> 
> On 10 Oct 2011, at 01:26, Dane trethowan wrote:
> 
> I'm not going to comment on Daisy production as its an area I'm not familiar with.
> 
> I have Braille embossing going on my Mac with my Keyspan adaptor and my Mountbattin Braille Writer, have had it going for a number of years now, there was document explaining how it all worked published on the Internet.
> 
> No intention of buying any Microsoft Office products either, we've discussed the reasons already but the other main reasons says volumes, all my substitute software was far cheaper than the Microsoft products were, in fact I doubt whehter the cost of the substitute software would even come to the price of one of Microsoft's "Stand-alone" Office applications.
> 
> 
> 
> On 10/10/2011 11:13 AM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:
>> Helo Dane
>> 
>> Microsoft products are very bloated for the most part. There is a lot of junk inside their self-extracting archives which a lot of people who know about this kind of stuff say simply doesn't need to be there.
>> 
>> As you might know, Windows itself is very messy as far as cleaning up temporary files and old registry entries are concerned. We don't plan on doing more than we have too with Windows; don't get me wrong. We migrated to the Mac so that we could escape from all the dross that Windows brings with it. But whether we like it or not there are certain tasks which you simply cannot accomplish under OSX so we have little option where they are concerned.
>> 
>> For instance, Braille transcription. We haven't been able to get any joy at all on the mac with that. Our Keyspan adapter has never shown us any signs of working on the Mac, and I doubt it ever will. Gordon is now getting pretty irritated by the lack of functionality in that area so we are going to have to use Windows. Our embosser has done absolutely nothing for almost 2 years now and that situation is one which we find intolerable.
>> 
>> DAISY publication is another area where we need Windows. There's absolutely nothing which comes close to meeting our needs on the Mac and that stuff that they did with Open Office is a bit of a joke. It's absolutely no use at all for what we need. Gordon needs to be able to control the navigation points, and all that thing does is very basic production with no level of user control at all.
>> 
>> As for Office, we have absolutely no intention whatsoever of installing Microsoft Office. It's a very over-rated and grossly over-priced suite of software which, although you can now buy it in separate components, is simply not worth the money.
>> 
>> Lynne
>> 
>> On 10 Oct 2011, at 00:55, Dane trethowan wrote:
>> 
>> Yes indeed<smiloe>.
>> 
>> I've never relied or been tempted to use any Microsoft products much at all, in the main they're very bulky for one thing.
>> 
>> I've always had trouble getting Outlook Express to work so I gave up on that.  did try Outlook 2003 at one point though it appeared to be a mess when it came to all its functions and integrating them hence I spent a lot more time using that software and wasting that time if that makes any sense.
>> 
>> The "Live" stuff I didn't enjoy at all and thus have found replacements for many of the "Live" utilities and functions.  for example Miranda is an excellent multi protocol chat client in much the same way as Adium for the Mac.  I can write my blogs under Windows using something called Blogjet, not the most accessible piece of software on the planet but it is usable.
>> 
>> I don't use Microsoft Office utilities as I've found substitutes for them, Jarte Plus for Word Processing, nothing for spreadsheet design yet and Ask Sam for database management, could also use that for Word Processing too if i wanted.
>> 
>> and for email? Well i use the now tried and true Thunderbird, I use NVDA a lot of the time so I'm insulated for the problems that users of Window-eyes have with this software<smile>.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 10/10/2011 10:45 AM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:
>>> Hello Dane
>>> 
>>> On 10 Oct 2011, at 00:08, Dane Trethowan wrote:
>>> 
>>> Thanks, I never thought of relying on it anyway<smile>.
>>> 
>>> Just a figure of speech.
>>> 
>>> Lynne
>>> 
>>> 
>>> =======================================
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>>> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
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>>> 
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>>> 
>>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html
>>> 
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>>> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
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> 
> -- 
> sent from my HP Powerhouse Notebook.
> 
> 
> 
> =======================================
> 
> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free
> 
> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
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> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites:
> 
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> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
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> 
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From grtdane at internode.on.net  Mon Oct 10 01:56:52 2011
From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane trethowan)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 11:56:52 +1100
Subject: Microsoft Windows and the mess it leaves behind
In-Reply-To: <02C8CE9F-AA86-44D1-A1F0-73B10DB5C151@mac-access.net>
References: <D93A3AE7-C3A0-49E6-8FA7-449C98FF7746@mac-access.net>	<4E91B86C.2000106@techno-chat.net>
	<1F5500CC-948E-4484-B044-D5836CA69B1C@mac-access.net>
	<4E91CEB2.6030906@techno-chat.net>
	<A8CA2FE9-7875-43FB-B909-87C54204E555@mac-access.net>
	<15942E02-F0E6-4869-BC76-0892E4A85BF0@internode.on.net>
	<82F72DEC-23B6-459E-821B-0CC6F9C22697@mac-access.net>
	<763E8E7B-879B-4DAA-A97D-10383392C965@internode.on.net>
	<8FDB1669-4FF7-4697-B6F4-44C15C0BC694@mac-access.net>
	<4E92345E.1010406@internode.on.net>
	<8C90C546-6460-42E0-B148-017A3933E985@mac-access.net>
	<4E923FBF.7000800@internode.on.net>
	<02C8CE9F-AA86-44D1-A1F0-73B10DB5C151@mac-access.net>
Message-ID: <4E9242D4.2080006@internode.on.net>

our call but you made statements regarding Windows which I thought worth 
responding too not for your benefit particularly but for the list at large.



On 10/10/2011 11:54 AM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:
> Hello Dane
>
> This again is just personal perspective. But we don't want to get too bobbed down with all this Windows stuff. For us, Windows is a very very limited time OS. In other words, we'll use it when we have too, but nothing more. It won't be used for mail, web browsing, any of that kind of stuff because to be honest we just don't need it.
>
> All we want it for is Braille, DAYSY, and maybe the odd bit of audio CD ripping.
>
> Lynne
>
> On 10 Oct 2011, at 01:43, Dane trethowan wrote:
>
> ah well you see that's where third party utilities such as CCleaner come into their own, you may remember I discussed the CCleaner version for the Mac on the mac-access list, CCleaner for Windows has been around for years.
>
> unlike a lot of these sorts of utilities its completely customisable thus you can configure and monitor what it does, what it cleans and so on.
>
> I use something here called Tune-Up Utilities to maintain my windows Machines, when I bought Vipre Anti Virus Premium I just happened to be lucky enough to buy the Tune-Up Utilities software which came bundled as an offer for 3 PC's at the time.
>
> this software is very accessible and again very customisable, if I had to compare Tune-Up Utilities to anything then the best comparison I could make is to the older versions of Norton Utilities back in the late 80s early 90s when the package was a suite of utilities, all of which could do a different job or which could be entigrated to work as part of a "control Centre" thus automating many tasks.
>
> I appreciate that there is nothing like a good edit of the Registry every now and then but the fact is that such a task is dangerous and can easily bring a system down so I certainly wouldn't recommend anyone try it unless you're absolutely sure of what you're doing or unless you're running Rollback, System restore etc.
>
>
> =======================================
>
> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free
>
> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat
>
> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites:
>
> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html
>
> Or:
> <http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat at techno-chat.net>
> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
> <http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat at techno-chat.net/maillist.xml>
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> ---------------------------------------

-- 
sent from my HP Powerhouse Notebook.



From grtdane at internode.on.net  Mon Oct 10 01:57:31 2011
From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane trethowan)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 11:57:31 +1100
Subject: Mountbattin Braille Writer and embossing Braille
In-Reply-To: <1D90F097-178A-4F07-A967-1BEA70425A62@mac-access.net>
References: <D93A3AE7-C3A0-49E6-8FA7-449C98FF7746@mac-access.net>	<4E91B86C.2000106@techno-chat.net>
	<1F5500CC-948E-4484-B044-D5836CA69B1C@mac-access.net>
	<4E91CEB2.6030906@techno-chat.net>
	<A8CA2FE9-7875-43FB-B909-87C54204E555@mac-access.net>
	<15942E02-F0E6-4869-BC76-0892E4A85BF0@internode.on.net>
	<82F72DEC-23B6-459E-821B-0CC6F9C22697@mac-access.net>
	<763E8E7B-879B-4DAA-A97D-10383392C965@internode.on.net>
	<8FDB1669-4FF7-4697-B6F4-44C15C0BC694@mac-access.net>
	<4E92345E.1010406@internode.on.net>
	<8C90C546-6460-42E0-B148-017A3933E985@mac-access.net>
	<4E923BC7.5090401@internode.on.net>
	<EDF5FBB3-5B87-4980-A8D2-BAB05A9448AD@mac-access.net>
	<4E924179.9080301@internode.on.net>
	<1D90F097-178A-4F07-A967-1BEA70425A62@mac-access.net>
Message-ID: <4E9242FB.2050106@internode.on.net>

'll take your word for it as i know absolutely nothing about it <smile>.



On 10/10/2011 11:55 AM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:
> I'm not disputing that, but the point is that the model we have doesn't have the right ports. Simple and strait forward as that.
>
>
> On 10 Oct 2011, at 01:51, Dane trethowan wrote:
>
> Actually the circuits for the Mountbattin Braille Writer go back further than your embosser does.
>
> The Mountbattin Braille Writer - or at least my model - has a USB port but I never managed to get this working under the Mac so hence the purchase of the Keyspan USB to serial adaptor, that way I can have the Mac communicate directly through the serial ports of the Mountbattin which themselves are very configurable to the point of being able to "dump" text from just about any computer or note taking device on the planet and have it embossed, stored to memory for editing on the Mountbattin, transferred from the Mountbattin to another computer etc.
>
> I'm not saying one system is better than another, they're totaly different so I'm just making some points about my setup.
>
>
>
> On 10/10/2011 11:44 AM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:
>> Hello Dane
>>
>> We have Dolphin Publisher for DAISY and it's the best publisher package in the world. It gives you absolute control over absolutely every function of your DAISY recording and it can synchronise human reading with on-screen text in real time. So what you finish up with is a book read by a person and on the screen the text is displayed and scrolls at the exact speed that the voice reads. I did that for Gordon with one of the Jennings books, and the results were spectacular. I'm trying to get hold of more of those books, but that's a matter for another time and another place.
>>
>> As for the Braille, yes; I know about your embosser. But ours is a different system. Unfortunately it's somewhat older than yours, the label says it was made in April 2001. it doesn't have USB on it, nor does it have Ethernet. So it's kind of difficult to use on the Mac. I bought a Keyspan adapter, on the advice of members of our other group. But I never got it to work on the Mac at all; it's just not visible.
>>
>> Be that as it may, we now have to try and get it all set up on Windows. We have DBT for Windows, (version 11.1) and if we can get the adapter to play nice Gordon has a heap if things he needs to emboss.
>>
>> As for Office I think we are on the same page. I refuse to pay those extortionate prices for software. Microsoft is pricing itself out of the market, in my opinion. There are alternatives for both Mac and Windows which will do just about everything you can do with Office and buying the whole lot of them together for both platforms would still leave you paying less than you'd pay for Office.
>>
>> Lynne
>>
>>
>>
>> On 10 Oct 2011, at 01:26, Dane trethowan wrote:
>>
>> I'm not going to comment on Daisy production as its an area I'm not familiar with.
>>
>> I have Braille embossing going on my Mac with my Keyspan adaptor and my Mountbattin Braille Writer, have had it going for a number of years now, there was document explaining how it all worked published on the Internet.
>>
>> No intention of buying any Microsoft Office products either, we've discussed the reasons already but the other main reasons says volumes, all my substitute software was far cheaper than the Microsoft products were, in fact I doubt whehter the cost of the substitute software would even come to the price of one of Microsoft's "Stand-alone" Office applications.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 10/10/2011 11:13 AM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:
>>> Helo Dane
>>>
>>> Microsoft products are very bloated for the most part. There is a lot of junk inside their self-extracting archives which a lot of people who know about this kind of stuff say simply doesn't need to be there.
>>>
>>> As you might know, Windows itself is very messy as far as cleaning up temporary files and old registry entries are concerned. We don't plan on doing more than we have too with Windows; don't get me wrong. We migrated to the Mac so that we could escape from all the dross that Windows brings with it. But whether we like it or not there are certain tasks which you simply cannot accomplish under OSX so we have little option where they are concerned.
>>>
>>> For instance, Braille transcription. We haven't been able to get any joy at all on the mac with that. Our Keyspan adapter has never shown us any signs of working on the Mac, and I doubt it ever will. Gordon is now getting pretty irritated by the lack of functionality in that area so we are going to have to use Windows. Our embosser has done absolutely nothing for almost 2 years now and that situation is one which we find intolerable.
>>>
>>> DAISY publication is another area where we need Windows. There's absolutely nothing which comes close to meeting our needs on the Mac and that stuff that they did with Open Office is a bit of a joke. It's absolutely no use at all for what we need. Gordon needs to be able to control the navigation points, and all that thing does is very basic production with no level of user control at all.
>>>
>>> As for Office, we have absolutely no intention whatsoever of installing Microsoft Office. It's a very over-rated and grossly over-priced suite of software which, although you can now buy it in separate components, is simply not worth the money.
>>>
>>> Lynne
>>>
>>> On 10 Oct 2011, at 00:55, Dane trethowan wrote:
>>>
>>> Yes indeed<smiloe>.
>>>
>>> I've never relied or been tempted to use any Microsoft products much at all, in the main they're very bulky for one thing.
>>>
>>> I've always had trouble getting Outlook Express to work so I gave up on that.  did try Outlook 2003 at one point though it appeared to be a mess when it came to all its functions and integrating them hence I spent a lot more time using that software and wasting that time if that makes any sense.
>>>
>>> The "Live" stuff I didn't enjoy at all and thus have found replacements for many of the "Live" utilities and functions.  for example Miranda is an excellent multi protocol chat client in much the same way as Adium for the Mac.  I can write my blogs under Windows using something called Blogjet, not the most accessible piece of software on the planet but it is usable.
>>>
>>> I don't use Microsoft Office utilities as I've found substitutes for them, Jarte Plus for Word Processing, nothing for spreadsheet design yet and Ask Sam for database management, could also use that for Word Processing too if i wanted.
>>>
>>> and for email? Well i use the now tried and true Thunderbird, I use NVDA a lot of the time so I'm insulated for the problems that users of Window-eyes have with this software<smile>.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 10/10/2011 10:45 AM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:
>>>> Hello Dane
>>>>
>>>> On 10 Oct 2011, at 00:08, Dane Trethowan wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Thanks, I never thought of relying on it anyway<smile>.
>>>>
>>>> Just a figure of speech.
>>>>
>>>> Lynne
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> =======================================
>>>>
>>>> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free
>>>>
>>>> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
>>>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat
>>>>
>>>> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites:
>>>>
>>>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html
>>>>
>>>> Or:
>>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat at techno-chat.net>
>>>> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
>>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat at techno-chat.net/maillist.xml>
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------

-- 
sent from my HP Powerhouse Notebook.



From lynne at mac-access.net  Mon Oct 10 01:58:54 2011
From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 01:58:54 +0100
Subject: Undelete
In-Reply-To: <4E924281.7060903@internode.on.net>
References: <FB7F343C-0F6E-4883-8C31-25962ED343BB@mac-access.net>
	<F8589CD7-98CC-458F-8762-18294DEF96D8@internode.on.net>
	<BA3C7D78-A12A-45E3-B70F-6F955757FB02@mac-access.net>
	<4E9234D5.4050004@internode.on.net>
	<0E66543C-6B11-4315-A0FC-805AF03300F7@mac-access.net>
	<4E923C64.8070601@internode.on.net>
	<388560BD-90A0-4F37-8DBA-5771C65A53B1@mac-access.net>
	<4E924281.7060903@internode.on.net>
Message-ID: <CBF968F0-3581-4A31-96BC-CE205904025A@mac-access.net>

Hello Dane

I'm not arguing about the software, since I've never seen it; it would be rather silly of me to argue about how the thing works.

Lynne


On 10 Oct 2011, at 01:55, Dane trethowan wrote:

Well you see, its easy to reach such a perspective if you know nothing about how Undelete Pro works <smile..

I did say that the software was fully customisable thus you have many options at your disposal in how you handle your files, you can set Undelete Pro to delete files if they've not been used for several weeks, days, months etc.  You can set a portion of your hard drive so as to avoid clutter or you can set up a whole drive for the purpose of file monitoring, the choice is yours.

It can be argued also that Rollback can take up a lot of unecessary space, just see how much space multiple snapshots use after aperiod of time and you'll udnerstand what I'm getting at.

Undelete Pro is handy when I'm doing a lot of editing work, mistakes can happen and I can retrieve a whole batch of files - hundreds of files - in a matter of seconds thus I have the material to start my job again with.



From lynne at mac-access.net  Mon Oct 10 02:00:03 2011
From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 02:00:03 +0100
Subject: Microsoft Products and substitutes for same
In-Reply-To: <A7385436-81BD-4F2A-A7FA-0B1117A298C6@gmail.com>
References: <D93A3AE7-C3A0-49E6-8FA7-449C98FF7746@mac-access.net>	<4E91B86C.2000106@techno-chat.net>
	<1F5500CC-948E-4484-B044-D5836CA69B1C@mac-access.net>
	<4E91CEB2.6030906@techno-chat.net>
	<A8CA2FE9-7875-43FB-B909-87C54204E555@mac-access.net>
	<15942E02-F0E6-4869-BC76-0892E4A85BF0@internode.on.net>
	<82F72DEC-23B6-459E-821B-0CC6F9C22697@mac-access.net>
	<763E8E7B-879B-4DAA-A97D-10383392C965@internode.on.net>
	<8FDB1669-4FF7-4697-B6F4-44C15C0BC694@mac-access.net>
	<4E92345E.1010406@internode.on.net>
	<8C90C546-6460-42E0-B148-017A3933E985@mac-access.net>
	<4E923BC7.5090401@internode.on.net>
	<EDF5FBB3-5B87-4980-A8D2-BAB05A9448AD@mac-access.net>
	<A7385436-81BD-4F2A-A7FA-0B1117A298C6@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <01F5D748-7325-49E6-8000-4136E8A54B18@mac-access.net>

Hello Jane

Do a Google for Dolphin Publisher. But I warn you it costs about 1000 Dollars.

Lynne

On 10 Oct 2011, at 01:51, Jane wrote:

Where can I fid out more info about this Dolphon DAISY book maker? I want to invest or somehow get something like that for my daughter to help her with reading.  I want to take etexts and sync them with audio so she can play it and read.

Jane




On Oct 9, 2011, at 8:44 PM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:

> Hello Dane
> 
> We have Dolphin Publisher for DAISY and it's the best publisher package in the world. It gives you absolute control over absolutely every function of your DAISY recording and it can synchronise human reading with on-screen text in real time. So what you finish up with is a book read by a person and on the screen the text is displayed and scrolls at the exact speed that the voice reads. I did that for Gordon with one of the Jennings books, and the results were spectacular. I'm trying to get hold of more of those books, but that's a matter for another time and another place.
> 
> As for the Braille, yes; I know about your embosser. But ours is a different system. Unfortunately it's somewhat older than yours, the label says it was made in April 2001. it doesn't have USB on it, nor does it have Ethernet. So it's kind of difficult to use on the Mac. I bought a Keyspan adapter, on the advice of members of our other group. But I never got it to work on the Mac at all; it's just not visible.
> 
> Be that as it may, we now have to try and get it all set up on Windows. We have DBT for Windows, (version 11.1) and if we can get the adapter to play nice Gordon has a heap if things he needs to emboss.
> 
> As for Office I think we are on the same page. I refuse to pay those extortionate prices for software. Microsoft is pricing itself out of the market, in my opinion. There are alternatives for both Mac and Windows which will do just about everything you can do with Office and buying the whole lot of them together for both platforms would still leave you paying less than you'd pay for Office.
> 
> Lynne
> 
> 
> 
> On 10 Oct 2011, at 01:26, Dane trethowan wrote:
> 
> I'm not going to comment on Daisy production as its an area I'm not familiar with.
> 
> I have Braille embossing going on my Mac with my Keyspan adaptor and my Mountbattin Braille Writer, have had it going for a number of years now, there was document explaining how it all worked published on the Internet.
> 
> No intention of buying any Microsoft Office products either, we've discussed the reasons already but the other main reasons says volumes, all my substitute software was far cheaper than the Microsoft products were, in fact I doubt whehter the cost of the substitute software would even come to the price of one of Microsoft's "Stand-alone" Office applications.
> 
> 
> 
> On 10/10/2011 11:13 AM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:
>> Helo Dane
>> 
>> Microsoft products are very bloated for the most part. There is a lot of junk inside their self-extracting archives which a lot of people who know about this kind of stuff say simply doesn't need to be there.
>> 
>> As you might know, Windows itself is very messy as far as cleaning up temporary files and old registry entries are concerned. We don't plan on doing more than we have too with Windows; don't get me wrong. We migrated to the Mac so that we could escape from all the dross that Windows brings with it. But whether we like it or not there are certain tasks which you simply cannot accomplish under OSX so we have little option where they are concerned.
>> 
>> For instance, Braille transcription. We haven't been able to get any joy at all on the mac with that. Our Keyspan adapter has never shown us any signs of working on the Mac, and I doubt it ever will. Gordon is now getting pretty irritated by the lack of functionality in that area so we are going to have to use Windows. Our embosser has done absolutely nothing for almost 2 years now and that situation is one which we find intolerable.
>> 
>> DAISY publication is another area where we need Windows. There's absolutely nothing which comes close to meeting our needs on the Mac and that stuff that they did with Open Office is a bit of a joke. It's absolutely no use at all for what we need. Gordon needs to be able to control the navigation points, and all that thing does is very basic production with no level of user control at all.
>> 
>> As for Office, we have absolutely no intention whatsoever of installing Microsoft Office. It's a very over-rated and grossly over-priced suite of software which, although you can now buy it in separate components, is simply not worth the money.
>> 
>> Lynne
>> 
>> On 10 Oct 2011, at 00:55, Dane trethowan wrote:
>> 
>> Yes indeed<smiloe>.
>> 
>> I've never relied or been tempted to use any Microsoft products much at all, in the main they're very bulky for one thing.
>> 
>> I've always had trouble getting Outlook Express to work so I gave up on that.  did try Outlook 2003 at one point though it appeared to be a mess when it came to all its functions and integrating them hence I spent a lot more time using that software and wasting that time if that makes any sense.
>> 
>> The "Live" stuff I didn't enjoy at all and thus have found replacements for many of the "Live" utilities and functions.  for example Miranda is an excellent multi protocol chat client in much the same way as Adium for the Mac.  I can write my blogs under Windows using something called Blogjet, not the most accessible piece of software on the planet but it is usable.
>> 
>> I don't use Microsoft Office utilities as I've found substitutes for them, Jarte Plus for Word Processing, nothing for spreadsheet design yet and Ask Sam for database management, could also use that for Word Processing too if i wanted.
>> 
>> and for email? Well i use the now tried and true Thunderbird, I use NVDA a lot of the time so I'm insulated for the problems that users of Window-eyes have with this software<smile>.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 10/10/2011 10:45 AM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:
>>> Hello Dane
>>> 
>>> On 10 Oct 2011, at 00:08, Dane Trethowan wrote:
>>> 
>>> Thanks, I never thought of relying on it anyway<smile>.
>>> 
>>> Just a figure of speech.
>>> 
>>> Lynne
>>> 
>>> 
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From grtdane at internode.on.net  Mon Oct 10 02:00:57 2011
From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane trethowan)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 12:00:57 +1100
Subject: Undelete
In-Reply-To: <CBF968F0-3581-4A31-96BC-CE205904025A@mac-access.net>
References: <FB7F343C-0F6E-4883-8C31-25962ED343BB@mac-access.net>
	<F8589CD7-98CC-458F-8762-18294DEF96D8@internode.on.net>
	<BA3C7D78-A12A-45E3-B70F-6F955757FB02@mac-access.net>
	<4E9234D5.4050004@internode.on.net>
	<0E66543C-6B11-4315-A0FC-805AF03300F7@mac-access.net>
	<4E923C64.8070601@internode.on.net>
	<388560BD-90A0-4F37-8DBA-5771C65A53B1@mac-access.net>
	<4E924281.7060903@internode.on.net>
	<CBF968F0-3581-4A31-96BC-CE205904025A@mac-access.net>
Message-ID: <4E9243C9.8040405@internode.on.net>

I  find it useful, you can find out more about it by going to 
<http://www.diskeeper.com> and I beleive that several versions are 
available including a server edition.



On 10/10/2011 11:58 AM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:
> Hello Dane
>
> I'm not arguing about the software, since I've never seen it; it would be rather silly of me to argue about how the thing works.
>
> Lynne
>
>
> On 10 Oct 2011, at 01:55, Dane trethowan wrote:
>
> Well you see, its easy to reach such a perspective if you know nothing about how Undelete Pro works<smile..
>
> I did say that the software was fully customisable thus you have many options at your disposal in how you handle your files, you can set Undelete Pro to delete files if they've not been used for several weeks, days, months etc.  You can set a portion of your hard drive so as to avoid clutter or you can set up a whole drive for the purpose of file monitoring, the choice is yours.
>
> It can be argued also that Rollback can take up a lot of unecessary space, just see how much space multiple snapshots use after aperiod of time and you'll udnerstand what I'm getting at.
>
> Undelete Pro is handy when I'm doing a lot of editing work, mistakes can happen and I can retrieve a whole batch of files - hundreds of files - in a matter of seconds thus I have the material to start my job again with.
>
>
>
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> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
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>
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> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
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-- 
sent from my HP Powerhouse Notebook.



From lynne at mac-access.net  Mon Oct 10 02:03:09 2011
From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 02:03:09 +0100
Subject: Index Everest V2
In-Reply-To: <4E9242FB.2050106@internode.on.net>
References: <D93A3AE7-C3A0-49E6-8FA7-449C98FF7746@mac-access.net>	<4E91B86C.2000106@techno-chat.net>
	<1F5500CC-948E-4484-B044-D5836CA69B1C@mac-access.net>
	<4E91CEB2.6030906@techno-chat.net>
	<A8CA2FE9-7875-43FB-B909-87C54204E555@mac-access.net>
	<15942E02-F0E6-4869-BC76-0892E4A85BF0@internode.on.net>
	<82F72DEC-23B6-459E-821B-0CC6F9C22697@mac-access.net>
	<763E8E7B-879B-4DAA-A97D-10383392C965@internode.on.net>
	<8FDB1669-4FF7-4697-B6F4-44C15C0BC694@mac-access.net>
	<4E92345E.1010406@internode.on.net>
	<8C90C546-6460-42E0-B148-017A3933E985@mac-access.net>
	<4E923BC7.5090401@internode.on.net>
	<EDF5FBB3-5B87-4980-A8D2-BAB05A9448AD@mac-access.net>
	<4E924179.9080301@internode.on.net>
	<1D90F097-178A-4F07-A967-1BEA70425A62@mac-access.net>
	<4E9242FB.2050106@internode.on.net>
Message-ID: <FD38BF6A-4A96-4A83-A8E0-6C89B8927247@mac-access.net>

The Index Everest version 2 only has parallel and serial. That was the reason we tried the Keyspan, in the hope that it might work. So far though, we've only had frustration.

Lynne

On 10 Oct 2011, at 01:57, Dane trethowan wrote:

'll take your word for it as i know absolutely nothing about it <smile>.



From juanitatighan at gmail.com  Mon Oct 10 02:32:57 2011
From: juanitatighan at gmail.com (Jane)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2011 21:32:57 -0400
Subject: Microsoft Products and substitutes for same
In-Reply-To: <01F5D748-7325-49E6-8000-4136E8A54B18@mac-access.net>
References: <D93A3AE7-C3A0-49E6-8FA7-449C98FF7746@mac-access.net>	<4E91B86C.2000106@techno-chat.net>
	<1F5500CC-948E-4484-B044-D5836CA69B1C@mac-access.net>
	<4E91CEB2.6030906@techno-chat.net>
	<A8CA2FE9-7875-43FB-B909-87C54204E555@mac-access.net>
	<15942E02-F0E6-4869-BC76-0892E4A85BF0@internode.on.net>
	<82F72DEC-23B6-459E-821B-0CC6F9C22697@mac-access.net>
	<763E8E7B-879B-4DAA-A97D-10383392C965@internode.on.net>
	<8FDB1669-4FF7-4697-B6F4-44C15C0BC694@mac-access.net>
	<4E92345E.1010406@internode.on.net>
	<8C90C546-6460-42E0-B148-017A3933E985@mac-access.net>
	<4E923BC7.5090401@internode.on.net>
	<EDF5FBB3-5B87-4980-A8D2-BAB05A9448AD@mac-access.net>
	<A7385436-81BD-4F2A-A7FA-0B1117A298C6@gmail.com>
	<01F5D748-7325-49E6-8000-4136E8A54B18@mac-access.net>
Message-ID: <00B818B9-1191-4906-BC37-207EE027F2D7@gmail.com>

Hello, Lyne.

Looks like I won't be getting it any time soon.  Right now we are trying to keep paying bills, so I guess that will have to wait.

Jane




On Oct 9, 2011, at 9:00 PM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:

> Hello Jane
> 
> Do a Google for Dolphin Publisher. But I warn you it costs about 1000 Dollars.
> 
> Lynne
> 
> On 10 Oct 2011, at 01:51, Jane wrote:
> 
> Where can I fid out more info about this Dolphon DAISY book maker? I want to invest or somehow get something like that for my daughter to help her with reading.  I want to take etexts and sync them with audio so she can play it and read.
> 
> Jane
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Oct 9, 2011, at 8:44 PM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:
> 
>> Hello Dane
>> 
>> We have Dolphin Publisher for DAISY and it's the best publisher package in the world. It gives you absolute control over absolutely every function of your DAISY recording and it can synchronise human reading with on-screen text in real time. So what you finish up with is a book read by a person and on the screen the text is displayed and scrolls at the exact speed that the voice reads. I did that for Gordon with one of the Jennings books, and the results were spectacular. I'm trying to get hold of more of those books, but that's a matter for another time and another place.
>> 
>> As for the Braille, yes; I know about your embosser. But ours is a different system. Unfortunately it's somewhat older than yours, the label says it was made in April 2001. it doesn't have USB on it, nor does it have Ethernet. So it's kind of difficult to use on the Mac. I bought a Keyspan adapter, on the advice of members of our other group. But I never got it to work on the Mac at all; it's just not visible.
>> 
>> Be that as it may, we now have to try and get it all set up on Windows. We have DBT for Windows, (version 11.1) and if we can get the adapter to play nice Gordon has a heap if things he needs to emboss.
>> 
>> As for Office I think we are on the same page. I refuse to pay those extortionate prices for software. Microsoft is pricing itself out of the market, in my opinion. There are alternatives for both Mac and Windows which will do just about everything you can do with Office and buying the whole lot of them together for both platforms would still leave you paying less than you'd pay for Office.
>> 
>> Lynne
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 10 Oct 2011, at 01:26, Dane trethowan wrote:
>> 
>> I'm not going to comment on Daisy production as its an area I'm not familiar with.
>> 
>> I have Braille embossing going on my Mac with my Keyspan adaptor and my Mountbattin Braille Writer, have had it going for a number of years now, there was document explaining how it all worked published on the Internet.
>> 
>> No intention of buying any Microsoft Office products either, we've discussed the reasons already but the other main reasons says volumes, all my substitute software was far cheaper than the Microsoft products were, in fact I doubt whehter the cost of the substitute software would even come to the price of one of Microsoft's "Stand-alone" Office applications.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 10/10/2011 11:13 AM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:
>>> Helo Dane
>>> 
>>> Microsoft products are very bloated for the most part. There is a lot of junk inside their self-extracting archives which a lot of people who know about this kind of stuff say simply doesn't need to be there.
>>> 
>>> As you might know, Windows itself is very messy as far as cleaning up temporary files and old registry entries are concerned. We don't plan on doing more than we have too with Windows; don't get me wrong. We migrated to the Mac so that we could escape from all the dross that Windows brings with it. But whether we like it or not there are certain tasks which you simply cannot accomplish under OSX so we have little option where they are concerned.
>>> 
>>> For instance, Braille transcription. We haven't been able to get any joy at all on the mac with that. Our Keyspan adapter has never shown us any signs of working on the Mac, and I doubt it ever will. Gordon is now getting pretty irritated by the lack of functionality in that area so we are going to have to use Windows. Our embosser has done absolutely nothing for almost 2 years now and that situation is one which we find intolerable.
>>> 
>>> DAISY publication is another area where we need Windows. There's absolutely nothing which comes close to meeting our needs on the Mac and that stuff that they did with Open Office is a bit of a joke. It's absolutely no use at all for what we need. Gordon needs to be able to control the navigation points, and all that thing does is very basic production with no level of user control at all.
>>> 
>>> As for Office, we have absolutely no intention whatsoever of installing Microsoft Office. It's a very over-rated and grossly over-priced suite of software which, although you can now buy it in separate components, is simply not worth the money.
>>> 
>>> Lynne
>>> 
>>> On 10 Oct 2011, at 00:55, Dane trethowan wrote:
>>> 
>>> Yes indeed<smiloe>.
>>> 
>>> I've never relied or been tempted to use any Microsoft products much at all, in the main they're very bulky for one thing.
>>> 
>>> I've always had trouble getting Outlook Express to work so I gave up on that.  did try Outlook 2003 at one point though it appeared to be a mess when it came to all its functions and integrating them hence I spent a lot more time using that software and wasting that time if that makes any sense.
>>> 
>>> The "Live" stuff I didn't enjoy at all and thus have found replacements for many of the "Live" utilities and functions.  for example Miranda is an excellent multi protocol chat client in much the same way as Adium for the Mac.  I can write my blogs under Windows using something called Blogjet, not the most accessible piece of software on the planet but it is usable.
>>> 
>>> I don't use Microsoft Office utilities as I've found substitutes for them, Jarte Plus for Word Processing, nothing for spreadsheet design yet and Ask Sam for database management, could also use that for Word Processing too if i wanted.
>>> 
>>> and for email? Well i use the now tried and true Thunderbird, I use NVDA a lot of the time so I'm insulated for the problems that users of Window-eyes have with this software<smile>.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 10/10/2011 10:45 AM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:
>>>> Hello Dane
>>>> 
>>>> On 10 Oct 2011, at 00:08, Dane Trethowan wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks, I never thought of relying on it anyway<smile>.
>>>> 
>>>> Just a figure of speech.
>>>> 
>>>> Lynne
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> =======================================
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>>>> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free
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>>>> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
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>>>> 
>>>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html
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>>>> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
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>> -- 
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>> 
>> 
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From lynne at mac-access.net  Mon Oct 10 03:03:34 2011
From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 03:03:34 +0100
Subject: Microsoft Products and substitutes for same
In-Reply-To: <00B818B9-1191-4906-BC37-207EE027F2D7@gmail.com>
References: <D93A3AE7-C3A0-49E6-8FA7-449C98FF7746@mac-access.net>	<4E91B86C.2000106@techno-chat.net>
	<1F5500CC-948E-4484-B044-D5836CA69B1C@mac-access.net>
	<4E91CEB2.6030906@techno-chat.net>
	<A8CA2FE9-7875-43FB-B909-87C54204E555@mac-access.net>
	<15942E02-F0E6-4869-BC76-0892E4A85BF0@internode.on.net>
	<82F72DEC-23B6-459E-821B-0CC6F9C22697@mac-access.net>
	<763E8E7B-879B-4DAA-A97D-10383392C965@internode.on.net>
	<8FDB1669-4FF7-4697-B6F4-44C15C0BC694@mac-access.net>
	<4E92345E.1010406@internode.on.net>
	<8C90C546-6460-42E0-B148-017A3933E985@mac-access.net>
	<4E923BC7.5090401@internode.on.net>
	<EDF5FBB3-5B87-4980-A8D2-BAB05A9448AD@mac-access.net>
	<A7385436-81BD-4F2A-A7FA-0B1117A298C6@gmail.com>
	<01F5D748-7325-49E6-8000-4136E8A54B18@mac-access.net>
	<00B818B9-1191-4906-BC37-207EE027F2D7@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AF1CF7F5-F3F0-42C2-80CE-CA7EB44F8F58@mac-access.net>

hello Jane

I totally understand where you're coming from. The prices are ridiculous, and although it's a top class piece of software, I really don't see how they justify those prices.

We only got it because back in 2007 when Gordon bought the original version the prices were a lot lower. Then there was a mix-up at Dolphin over his SMA which they lost. Eventually, after an 18 month refusal to update him, one of Dolphin's support people started to dig around in the records and, eventually, she unearthed Gordon's details and it became clear that they had not honoured his purchase agreement and that what he had been telling them was in fact correct.

Dolphin wrote us a very nice letter, apologising for the error and saying that they were going to send him a totally new copy because he's clearly paid for something and not received it. Sure enough, in the next couple of days it arrived with a personal apology letter from Dolphin's software manager. So that's how we came about the current version.

The earlier version would not run without HAL, (Dolphin's screen-reader) and their software synthesiser whose name I have forgotten. But now it runs with anything and even without a screen-reader.

I am very sorry that they make the thing so unattainable to a lot of people. The product is really intended for professional users.

Lynne

On 10 Oct 2011, at 02:32, Jane wrote:

Hello, Lyne.

Looks like I won't be getting it any time soon.  Right now we are trying to keep paying bills, so I guess that will have to wait.

Jane


From d.griffith at btinternet.com  Mon Oct 10 06:26:37 2011
From: d.griffith at btinternet.com (David Griffith)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 06:26:37 +0100
Subject: Microsoft Products and substitutes for same
In-Reply-To: <AF1CF7F5-F3F0-42C2-80CE-CA7EB44F8F58@mac-access.net>
References: <D93A3AE7-C3A0-49E6-8FA7-449C98FF7746@mac-access.net>	<4E91B86C.2000106@techno-chat.net>
	<1F5500CC-948E-4484-B044-D5836CA69B1C@mac-access.net>
	<4E91CEB2.6030906@techno-chat.net>
	<A8CA2FE9-7875-43FB-B909-87C54204E555@mac-access.net>
	<15942E02-F0E6-4869-BC76-0892E4A85BF0@internode.on.net>
	<82F72DEC-23B6-459E-821B-0CC6F9C22697@mac-access.net>
	<763E8E7B-879B-4DAA-A97D-10383392C965@internode.on.net>
	<8FDB1669-4FF7-4697-B6F4-44C15C0BC694@mac-access.net>
	<4E92345E.1010406@internode.on.net>
	<8C90C546-6460-42E0-B148-017A3933E985@mac-access.net>
	<4E923BC7.5090401@internode.on.net>
	<EDF5FBB3-5B87-4980-A8D2-BAB05A9448AD@mac-access.net>
	<A7385436-81BD-4F2A-A7FA-0B1117A298C6@gmail.com>
	<01F5D748-7325-49E6-8000-4136E8A54B18@mac-access.net>
	<00B818B9-1191-4906-BC37-207EE027F2D7@gmail.com>
	<AF1CF7F5-F3F0-42C2-80CE-CA7EB44F8F58@mac-access.net>
Message-ID: <8B606CA4-C1AB-4B34-9A71-C845E01D871A@btinternet.com>

I have only come into the thread late and this may not be the solution sought.

Re Daisy Book audio book production.
There are easy free and powerful free options on the windows side. The one I use is the free daisy Book generator. This program works with any collection of mp3 files to convert them into a daisy book. .  There a few restrictions. The files must be named sequentially in the order in which they are to be played and the filenames must not include any spaces. I use at the excellent free bulk rename utility if this is an issue with files I am trying to convert into  daisy book. The program works in a command window but is accessible in Jaws. In essence all you have to do is collect your files into a folder, hit the application key whilst the folder is highlighted and then select daisy from the context  menu in explorer. Now press enter when daisy book generator starts up, and then press enter to exit the program. You can review the progress of the program with insert b but it is very quick at conversion. The folder will them be a daisy book.

If you need a text based daisy option there is the daisy plugin for Microsoft word. Obviously you have to pay for word but I think the plugin is free. i never used this but did use the free daisy pipeline        
option  which takes more setting up. Unfortunately I do not have access to the machine I set this up on so detailed advice on daisy pipeline will have to come from a current user.

Regards David Griffith     Widos 
David Griffith
d.griffith at btinternet.com



On 10 Oct 2011, at 03:03, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:

> hello Jane
> 
> I totally understand where you're coming from. The prices are ridiculous, and although it's a top class piece of software, I really don't see how they justify those prices.
> 
> We only got it because back in 2007 when Gordon bought the original version the prices were a lot lower. Then there was a mix-up at Dolphin over his SMA which they lost. Eventually, after an 18 month refusal to update him, one of Dolphin's support people started to dig around in the records and, eventually, she unearthed Gordon's details and it became clear that they had not honoured his purchase agreement and that what he had been telling them was in fact correct.
> 
> Dolphin wrote us a very nice letter, apologising for the error and saying that they were going to send him a totally new copy because he's clearly paid for something and not received it. Sure enough, in the next couple of days it arrived with a personal apology letter from Dolphin's software manager. So that's how we came about the current version.
> 
> The earlier version would not run without HAL, (Dolphin's screen-reader) and their software synthesiser whose name I have forgotten. But now it runs with anything and even without a screen-reader.
> 
> I am very sorry that they make the thing so unattainable to a lot of people. The product is really intended for professional users.
> 
> Lynne
> 
> On 10 Oct 2011, at 02:32, Jane wrote:
> 
> Hello, Lyne.
> 
> Looks like I won't be getting it any time soon.  Right now we are trying to keep paying bills, so I guess that will have to wait.
> 
> Jane
> 
> 
> =======================================
> 
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From chris.hallsworth at techno-chat.net  Mon Oct 10 08:22:48 2011
From: chris.hallsworth at techno-chat.net (chris hallsworth)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 08:22:48 +0100
Subject: Rollback and Windows System Restore
In-Reply-To: <BA3C7D78-A12A-45E3-B70F-6F955757FB02@mac-access.net>
References: <FB7F343C-0F6E-4883-8C31-25962ED343BB@mac-access.net>	<F8589CD7-98CC-458F-8762-18294DEF96D8@internode.on.net>
	<BA3C7D78-A12A-45E3-B70F-6F955757FB02@mac-access.net>
Message-ID: <4E929D48.9040100@techno-chat.net>

It is possible to restore a file or folder to a previous version in 
Windows 7. But that's about all you can do apart from restoring your 
entire system to an earlier time.

On 10/10/2011 00:48, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:
> Hello Dane
> There is still a lot that you cannot do with System Restore, even under 7. For instance you can't, as I understand it, restore individual files. And as far as I know it isn't accessible. I could be wrong there; please somebody correct me if I am.
>
> But we'll be sticking with RollBack I think as it's a comprehensive solution. The one problem we have is with disk optimisation. We haven't as yet discovered how to use it with Diskeeper which we need to upgrade to 2011.
>
> Lynne
>
> On 10 Oct 2011, at 00:15, Dane Trethowan wrote:
>
> Rollback is an excellent utility, I use it here.
>
> I would also point out that Windows System Restore has itself come a long way in Windows 7 and provides much of the functionality of Rollback in that the System Restore can now "restore" to previous snapshots out of Windows.
>
> Again, I've not tried this and I don't know even whether this function is accessible to those without vision in the "Boot" sequence as can be done with Rollback, I just know System Restore is now capable of booting previous Windows sessions so Windows users should take ful advantage of at least what System restore has to offer, will save them a lot of pain<smile>.
>
>
> On 10/10/2011, at 9:07 AM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:
>
>> Hello everybody
>>
>> I know there are those on list who think that Gordon and I are very anti-Microsoft and anti-Windows. Actually that's not completely true; we recognise that there are advantages to the OS, just as there are disadvantages and advantages to Mac OS X.
>>
>> Anyway, recently our little NetBook fell victim to the old Windows problems and it crashed; complaining about some sort of hardware change that had apparently been made by some invisible person.
>>
>> No; this wasn't a hacker attack. The change never even occurred; I know that because at the time its network was totally disabled.
>>
>> Anyway, after a lon time sitting on the shelf in broken mode, I eventually found the time to sit down with Gordon and look at the machine. We decided to do a little more digging; and went into the system BIOS, and turned off the Asus "Boot Booster" function. Then we rebooted the machine.
>>
>> The difference was startling. Instead of turning on the machine and being in Windows within about 10 seconds, the machine booted from a truly cold reset condition. This time, up popped the menu which was missing in Boot Booster mode, that of RollBAck RX professional.
>>
>> Once this menu appeared, it allowed me to "Roll Back" the machine to a time when Windows was fixed, and running well. In a matter of about 5 minutes, our system was rolled back and running perfectly again.
>>
>> RollBack RX available from<http://www.horizondatasys.com>  (if memory serves) is one of the best Windows products on the market in the field of disaster recovery.
>>
>> I would go so far as to say that no machine should be without RollBAck if it runs Windows. It makes Microsoft's feeble System Restore look pathetic, because System Restore cannot correct pre-boot problems, as RollBAck can. If your boot config goes wrong and you only have System Restore for your defence, you could well be in for a long restore job.
>>
>> RollBack Pro RX is a product we've used for a very very long time, and we've recommended to others on this list and I know that at least one person is using it.
>>
>> Previously, Gordon tells me he had a product called "GoBAck" by Roxio. But Symantec bought that and promptly did away with it so that it wouldn't impede their sales of Norton Utilities.
>>
>> Long story; but in Windows XP SP2 and later, GoBAck would no longer function and so that was the end of that idea. But Rollback remains to this day as valuable a tool as it was 5 years ago when, apparently, Gordon started using it.
>>
>> Thanks to that software our NetBook was up and running again within about 5 minutes of being booted into the RollBack menu. Rollback does have a GUI which you can use within Windows as well. That's another nice thing about it. It's 100% accessible. The boot menu is actually quite easy for a blind person as well; you just hold down the Home key when your system boots. Then, if you want to restore your system, just cursor down once and press Enter.
>>
>> A list of restore points comes up; with the latest snapshot at the top of the list. Just cursor down to the one you want and hit enter and off you go. If you only have one baseline restore point, it will be marked as "Installation", and is the only one you cannot delete. But all you have to do to roll back to it is to cursor down once or twice and then hit enter.
>>
>> All in all, RollBAck RX Pro is well worth the money. It has saved my other half countless hours of re-installing over the years he's been using it.
>>
>> Lynne
>>
>>
>>
>> =======================================
>>
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From chris.hallsworth at techno-chat.net  Mon Oct 10 08:24:41 2011
From: chris.hallsworth at techno-chat.net (chris hallsworth)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 08:24:41 +0100
Subject: Windows Antivirus and security applications
In-Reply-To: <79EEAF3A-42A4-4B87-905D-94869BBA7F8A@techno-chat.net>
References: <D93A3AE7-C3A0-49E6-8FA7-449C98FF7746@mac-access.net>	<4E91B86C.2000106@techno-chat.net>	<1F5500CC-948E-4484-B044-D5836CA69B1C@mac-access.net>	<4E91CEB2.6030906@techno-chat.net>	<A8CA2FE9-7875-43FB-B909-87C54204E555@mac-access.net>	<4E91E409.1050809@techno-chat.net>	<BDEE355E-1439-4513-8FFB-0EEAD1BD930C@mac-access.net>	<4E921C94.3060904@techno-chat.net>
	<79EEAF3A-42A4-4B87-905D-94869BBA7F8A@techno-chat.net>
Message-ID: <4E929DB9.3090705@techno-chat.net>

I agree about Googlemail but fortunately their spam software catches 99% 
of the spam I receive and thus move them to the spam folder.

On 09/10/2011 23:18, Gordon & Lynne wrote:
> Hello Chris
>
> That was exactly my point! We do a great deal of work behind the scenes to protect you all from spam. Our spam assassin implementation is constantly learning when it encounters spam. We haven't seen any spam for ages. I'm sorry to say this, but you can't say that for Google Mail.
>
> Lynne
>
> On 9 Oct 2011, at 23:13, chris hallsworth wrote:
>
> I haven't got any spam here my friend. Sorry. This account is so far a clean sheet.
>
> On 09/10/2011 22:49, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:
>> Hello Chris
>>
>> Can you show me a spam message which has hit your inbox on your Techno-Chat.net account? :)
>>
>> Lyne
>>
>> On 9 Oct 2011, at 19:12, chris hallsworth wrote:
>>
>> Ar ok, very interesting and to the point. Well I use Thunderbird and I have a Googlemail account. Fortunately most of the spam goes into the spam folder on the web, about 99% of the time. Very interesting though and thanks. Enjoy Viper, which does sound good and that's interesting they do a lifetime license of the product. Cool.
>>
>>
>> =======================================
>>
>> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free
>>
>> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
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>> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites:
>>
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>>
>> Or:
>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat at techno-chat.net>
>> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat at techno-chat.net/maillist.xml>
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>> ---------------------------------------
>>
>
> =======================================
>
> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free
>
> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat
>
> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites:
>
> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html
>
> Or:
> <http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat at techno-chat.net>
> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
> <http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat at techno-chat.net/maillist.xml>
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>
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>
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>
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>
> Or:
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> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
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>

From gordon at mac-access.net  Mon Oct 10 10:25:41 2011
From: gordon at mac-access.net (Gordon Smith)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 10:25:41 +0100
Subject: Microsoft Products and substitutes for same
In-Reply-To: <8B606CA4-C1AB-4B34-9A71-C845E01D871A@btinternet.com>
References: <D93A3AE7-C3A0-49E6-8FA7-449C98FF7746@mac-access.net>	<4E91B86C.2000106@techno-chat.net>
	<1F5500CC-948E-4484-B044-D5836CA69B1C@mac-access.net>
	<4E91CEB2.6030906@techno-chat.net>
	<A8CA2FE9-7875-43FB-B909-87C54204E555@mac-access.net>
	<15942E02-F0E6-4869-BC76-0892E4A85BF0@internode.on.net>
	<82F72DEC-23B6-459E-821B-0CC6F9C22697@mac-access.net>
	<763E8E7B-879B-4DAA-A97D-10383392C965@internode.on.net>
	<8FDB1669-4FF7-4697-B6F4-44C15C0BC694@mac-access.net>
	<4E92345E.1010406@internode.on.net>
	<8C90C546-6460-42E0-B148-017A3933E985@mac-access.net>
	<4E923BC7.5090401@internode.on.net>
	<EDF5FBB3-5B87-4980-A8D2-BAB05A9448AD@mac-access.net>
	<A7385436-81BD-4F2A-A7FA-0B1117A298C6@gmail.com>
	<01F5D748-7325-49E6-8000-4136E8A54B18@mac-access.net>
	<00B818B9-1191-4906-BC37-207EE027F2D7@gmail.com>
	<AF1CF7F5-F3F0-42C2-80CE-CA7EB44F8F58@mac-access.net>
	<8B606CA4-C1AB-4B34-9A71-C845E01D871A@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <24A5785A-52C7-4F31-8042-8E4806124ABF@mac-access.net>

Hi David

Unfortunately, you're not quite talking about the same thing here.  We're talking about a "Publisher", not a "Creator".  The two are very different concepts.

A "Publisher" is a product which allows you to manipulate different types of material and create the layout of the DAISY content.  It is possible to create a DAISY book quite easily, but the free options you describe clearly have restrictions and aren't the same as a full-blown publisher.

Thanks for the suggestions but actually we ourselves are not looking for a Windows-based solution.  Nor do I use JFW, thank goodness! :)

As for the Word option, definitely not!  Again it isn't a publisher.  It is a creator.  The two concepts are very different.  We are simply not prepared to go that route and buy Office or any of its components.

Gordon


On 10 Oct 2011, at 06:26, David Griffith wrote:

I have only come into the thread late and this may not be the solution sought.

Re Daisy Book audio book production.
There are easy free and powerful free options on the windows side. The one I use is the free daisy Book generator. This program works with any collection of mp3 files to convert them into a daisy book. .  There a few restrictions. The files must be named sequentially in the order in which they are to be played and the filenames must not include any spaces. I use at the excellent free bulk rename utility if this is an issue with files I am trying to convert into  daisy book. The program works in a command window but is accessible in Jaws. In essence all you have to do is collect your files into a folder, hit the application key whilst the folder is highlighted and then select daisy from the context  menu in explorer. Now press enter when daisy book generator starts up, and then press enter to exit the program. You can review the progress of the program with insert b but it is very quick at conversion. The folder will them be a daisy book.

If you need a text based daisy option there is the daisy plugin for Microsoft word. Obviously you have to pay for word but I think the plugin is free. i never used this but did use the free daisy pipeline        
option  which takes more setting up. Unfortunately I do not have access to the machine I set this up on so detailed advice on daisy pipeline will have to come from a current user.


From gordon at mac-access.net  Mon Oct 10 10:32:21 2011
From: gordon at mac-access.net (Gordon Smith)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 10:32:21 +0100
Subject: Rollback and Windows System Restore
In-Reply-To: <4E929D48.9040100@techno-chat.net>
References: <FB7F343C-0F6E-4883-8C31-25962ED343BB@mac-access.net>	<F8589CD7-98CC-458F-8762-18294DEF96D8@internode.on.net>
	<BA3C7D78-A12A-45E3-B70F-6F955757FB02@mac-access.net>
	<4E929D48.9040100@techno-chat.net>
Message-ID: <4DAB6501-563B-4FC1-8435-F9CF276912C1@mac-access.net>

Hi Chris

Yes, that is true.  But Rollback is far more powerful.  I totally understand why people are often tempted to go with the free options and nothing else.  Please don't think I'm criticising, patronising or anything else.  But sometimes you simply have to go the extra mile if you want the additional functionality.

To be honest, Microsoft just doesn't enjoinder trust as far as I am concerned.  Perhaps this is based on passed experiences of using their products.  But even when I was in DOS, I moved away from the Microsoft version of DOS, and used the JP Software command processor "4DOS" as it used to be called.  It was more functional, nicer to use and it just did all of the things which the Microsoft solution couldn't do.  That concept hasn't changed.  Microsoft and I just don't get along I'm afraid.  I prefer to pay for something and get the extra functionality and support.

Gordon


On 10 Oct 2011, at 08:22, chris hallsworth wrote:

It is possible to restore a file or folder to a previous version in Windows 7. But that's about all you can do apart from restoring your entire system to an earlier time.

On 10/10/2011 00:48, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:
> Hello Dane
> There is still a lot that you cannot do with System Restore, even under 7. For instance you can't, as I understand it, restore individual files. And as far as I know it isn't accessible. I could be wrong there; please somebody correct me if I am.
> 
> But we'll be sticking with RollBack I think as it's a comprehensive solution. The one problem we have is with disk optimisation. We haven't as yet discovered how to use it with Diskeeper which we need to upgrade to 2011.
> 
> Lynne
> 
> On 10 Oct 2011, at 00:15, Dane Trethowan wrote:
> 
> Rollback is an excellent utility, I use it here.
> 
> I would also point out that Windows System Restore has itself come a long way in Windows 7 and provides much of the functionality of Rollback in that the System Restore can now "restore" to previous snapshots out of Windows.
> 
> Again, I've not tried this and I don't know even whether this function is accessible to those without vision in the "Boot" sequence as can be done with Rollback, I just know System Restore is now capable of booting previous Windows sessions so Windows users should take ful advantage of at least what System restore has to offer, will save them a lot of pain<smile>.
> 
> 
> On 10/10/2011, at 9:07 AM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:
> 
>> Hello everybody
>> 
>> I know there are those on list who think that Gordon and I are very anti-Microsoft and anti-Windows. Actually that's not completely true; we recognise that there are advantages to the OS, just as there are disadvantages and advantages to Mac OS X.
>> 
>> Anyway, recently our little NetBook fell victim to the old Windows problems and it crashed; complaining about some sort of hardware change that had apparently been made by some invisible person.
>> 
>> No; this wasn't a hacker attack. The change never even occurred; I know that because at the time its network was totally disabled.
>> 
>> Anyway, after a lon time sitting on the shelf in broken mode, I eventually found the time to sit down with Gordon and look at the machine. We decided to do a little more digging; and went into the system BIOS, and turned off the Asus "Boot Booster" function. Then we rebooted the machine.
>> 
>> The difference was startling. Instead of turning on the machine and being in Windows within about 10 seconds, the machine booted from a truly cold reset condition. This time, up popped the menu which was missing in Boot Booster mode, that of RollBAck RX professional.
>> 
>> Once this menu appeared, it allowed me to "Roll Back" the machine to a time when Windows was fixed, and running well. In a matter of about 5 minutes, our system was rolled back and running perfectly again.
>> 
>> RollBack RX available from<http://www.horizondatasys.com>  (if memory serves) is one of the best Windows products on the market in the field of disaster recovery.
>> 
>> I would go so far as to say that no machine should be without RollBAck if it runs Windows. It makes Microsoft's feeble System Restore look pathetic, because System Restore cannot correct pre-boot problems, as RollBAck can. If your boot config goes wrong and you only have System Restore for your defence, you could well be in for a long restore job.
>> 
>> RollBack Pro RX is a product we've used for a very very long time, and we've recommended to others on this list and I know that at least one person is using it.
>> 
>> Previously, Gordon tells me he had a product called "GoBAck" by Roxio. But Symantec bought that and promptly did away with it so that it wouldn't impede their sales of Norton Utilities.
>> 
>> Long story; but in Windows XP SP2 and later, GoBAck would no longer function and so that was the end of that idea. But Rollback remains to this day as valuable a tool as it was 5 years ago when, apparently, Gordon started using it.
>> 
>> Thanks to that software our NetBook was up and running again within about 5 minutes of being booted into the RollBack menu. Rollback does have a GUI which you can use within Windows as well. That's another nice thing about it. It's 100% accessible. The boot menu is actually quite easy for a blind person as well; you just hold down the Home key when your system boots. Then, if you want to restore your system, just cursor down once and press Enter.
>> 
>> A list of restore points comes up; with the latest snapshot at the top of the list. Just cursor down to the one you want and hit enter and off you go. If you only have one baseline restore point, it will be marked as "Installation", and is the only one you cannot delete. But all you have to do to roll back to it is to cursor down once or twice and then hit enter.
>> 
>> All in all, RollBAck RX Pro is well worth the money. It has saved my other half countless hours of re-installing over the years he's been using it.
>> 
>> Lynne
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> =======================================
>> 
>> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free
>> 
>> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat
>> 
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>> 
>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html
>> 
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>> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
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> 
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From gordon at mac-access.net  Mon Oct 10 10:33:40 2011
From: gordon at mac-access.net (Gordon Smith)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 10:33:40 +0100
Subject: Windows Antivirus and security applications
In-Reply-To: <4E929DB9.3090705@techno-chat.net>
References: <D93A3AE7-C3A0-49E6-8FA7-449C98FF7746@mac-access.net>	<4E91B86C.2000106@techno-chat.net>	<1F5500CC-948E-4484-B044-D5836CA69B1C@mac-access.net>	<4E91CEB2.6030906@techno-chat.net>	<A8CA2FE9-7875-43FB-B909-87C54204E555@mac-access.net>	<4E91E409.1050809@techno-chat.net>	<BDEE355E-1439-4513-8FFB-0EEAD1BD930C@mac-access.net>	<4E921C94.3060904@techno-chat.net>
	<79EEAF3A-42A4-4B87-905D-94869BBA7F8A@techno-chat.net>
	<4E929DB9.3090705@techno-chat.net>
Message-ID: <218C4782-1D43-43AE-89C5-DE8FFEA291AF@mac-access.net>

Hello Chris

Funny though!  I don't see any software needed to keep your Techno-Chat.net account spam-free.

Gordon

On 10 Oct 2011, at 08:24, chris hallsworth wrote:

I agree about Googlemail but fortunately their spam software catches 99% of the spam I receive and thus move them to the spam folder.


From chris.hallsworth at techno-chat.net  Mon Oct 10 11:28:45 2011
From: chris.hallsworth at techno-chat.net (chris hallsworth)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 11:28:45 +0100
Subject: Windows Antivirus and security applications
In-Reply-To: <218C4782-1D43-43AE-89C5-DE8FFEA291AF@mac-access.net>
References: <D93A3AE7-C3A0-49E6-8FA7-449C98FF7746@mac-access.net>	<4E91B86C.2000106@techno-chat.net>	<1F5500CC-948E-4484-B044-D5836CA69B1C@mac-access.net>	<4E91CEB2.6030906@techno-chat.net>	<A8CA2FE9-7875-43FB-B909-87C54204E555@mac-access.net>	<4E91E409.1050809@techno-chat.net>	<BDEE355E-1439-4513-8FFB-0EEAD1BD930C@mac-access.net>	<4E921C94.3060904@techno-chat.net>	<79EEAF3A-42A4-4B87-905D-94869BBA7F8A@techno-chat.net>	<4E929DB9.3090705@techno-chat.net>
	<218C4782-1D43-43AE-89C5-DE8FFEA291AF@mac-access.net>
Message-ID: <4E92C8DD.1040708@techno-chat.net>

Lol I agree!

On 10/10/2011 10:33, Gordon Smith wrote:
> Hello Chris
>
> Funny though!  I don't see any software needed to keep your Techno-Chat.net account spam-free.
>
> Gordon
>
> On 10 Oct 2011, at 08:24, chris hallsworth wrote:
>
> I agree about Googlemail but fortunately their spam software catches 99% of the spam I receive and thus move them to the spam folder.
>
>
> =======================================
>
> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free
>
> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat
>
> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites:
>
> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html
>
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> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
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From chris.hallsworth at techno-chat.net  Mon Oct 10 11:29:44 2011
From: chris.hallsworth at techno-chat.net (chris hallsworth)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 11:29:44 +0100
Subject: Rollback and Windows System Restore
In-Reply-To: <4DAB6501-563B-4FC1-8435-F9CF276912C1@mac-access.net>
References: <FB7F343C-0F6E-4883-8C31-25962ED343BB@mac-access.net>	<F8589CD7-98CC-458F-8762-18294DEF96D8@internode.on.net>	<BA3C7D78-A12A-45E3-B70F-6F955757FB02@mac-access.net>	<4E929D48.9040100@techno-chat.net>
	<4DAB6501-563B-4FC1-8435-F9CF276912C1@mac-access.net>
Message-ID: <4E92C918.5050507@techno-chat.net>

No I agree and I may consider Rollback RX. I don't know though.

On 10/10/2011 10:32, Gordon Smith wrote:
> Hi Chris
>
> Yes, that is true.  But Rollback is far more powerful.  I totally understand why people are often tempted to go with the free options and nothing else.  Please don't think I'm criticising, patronising or anything else.  But sometimes you simply have to go the extra mile if you want the additional functionality.
>
> To be honest, Microsoft just doesn't enjoinder trust as far as I am concerned.  Perhaps this is based on passed experiences of using their products.  But even when I was in DOS, I moved away from the Microsoft version of DOS, and used the JP Software command processor "4DOS" as it used to be called.  It was more functional, nicer to use and it just did all of the things which the Microsoft solution couldn't do.  That concept hasn't changed.  Microsoft and I just don't get along I'm afraid.  I prefer to pay for something and get the extra functionality and support.
>
> Gordon
>
>
> On 10 Oct 2011, at 08:22, chris hallsworth wrote:
>
> It is possible to restore a file or folder to a previous version in Windows 7. But that's about all you can do apart from restoring your entire system to an earlier time.
>
> On 10/10/2011 00:48, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:
>> Hello Dane
>> There is still a lot that you cannot do with System Restore, even under 7. For instance you can't, as I understand it, restore individual files. And as far as I know it isn't accessible. I could be wrong there; please somebody correct me if I am.
>>
>> But we'll be sticking with RollBack I think as it's a comprehensive solution. The one problem we have is with disk optimisation. We haven't as yet discovered how to use it with Diskeeper which we need to upgrade to 2011.
>>
>> Lynne
>>
>> On 10 Oct 2011, at 00:15, Dane Trethowan wrote:
>>
>> Rollback is an excellent utility, I use it here.
>>
>> I would also point out that Windows System Restore has itself come a long way in Windows 7 and provides much of the functionality of Rollback in that the System Restore can now "restore" to previous snapshots out of Windows.
>>
>> Again, I've not tried this and I don't know even whether this function is accessible to those without vision in the "Boot" sequence as can be done with Rollback, I just know System Restore is now capable of booting previous Windows sessions so Windows users should take ful advantage of at least what System restore has to offer, will save them a lot of pain<smile>.
>>
>>
>> On 10/10/2011, at 9:07 AM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:
>>
>>> Hello everybody
>>>
>>> I know there are those on list who think that Gordon and I are very anti-Microsoft and anti-Windows. Actually that's not completely true; we recognise that there are advantages to the OS, just as there are disadvantages and advantages to Mac OS X.
>>>
>>> Anyway, recently our little NetBook fell victim to the old Windows problems and it crashed; complaining about some sort of hardware change that had apparently been made by some invisible person.
>>>
>>> No; this wasn't a hacker attack. The change never even occurred; I know that because at the time its network was totally disabled.
>>>
>>> Anyway, after a lon time sitting on the shelf in broken mode, I eventually found the time to sit down with Gordon and look at the machine. We decided to do a little more digging; and went into the system BIOS, and turned off the Asus "Boot Booster" function. Then we rebooted the machine.
>>>
>>> The difference was startling. Instead of turning on the machine and being in Windows within about 10 seconds, the machine booted from a truly cold reset condition. This time, up popped the menu which was missing in Boot Booster mode, that of RollBAck RX professional.
>>>
>>> Once this menu appeared, it allowed me to "Roll Back" the machine to a time when Windows was fixed, and running well. In a matter of about 5 minutes, our system was rolled back and running perfectly again.
>>>
>>> RollBack RX available from<http://www.horizondatasys.com>   (if memory serves) is one of the best Windows products on the market in the field of disaster recovery.
>>>
>>> I would go so far as to say that no machine should be without RollBAck if it runs Windows. It makes Microsoft's feeble System Restore look pathetic, because System Restore cannot correct pre-boot problems, as RollBAck can. If your boot config goes wrong and you only have System Restore for your defence, you could well be in for a long restore job.
>>>
>>> RollBack Pro RX is a product we've used for a very very long time, and we've recommended to others on this list and I know that at least one person is using it.
>>>
>>> Previously, Gordon tells me he had a product called "GoBAck" by Roxio. But Symantec bought that and promptly did away with it so that it wouldn't impede their sales of Norton Utilities.
>>>
>>> Long story; but in Windows XP SP2 and later, GoBAck would no longer function and so that was the end of that idea. But Rollback remains to this day as valuable a tool as it was 5 years ago when, apparently, Gordon started using it.
>>>
>>> Thanks to that software our NetBook was up and running again within about 5 minutes of being booted into the RollBack menu. Rollback does have a GUI which you can use within Windows as well. That's another nice thing about it. It's 100% accessible. The boot menu is actually quite easy for a blind person as well; you just hold down the Home key when your system boots. Then, if you want to restore your system, just cursor down once and press Enter.
>>>
>>> A list of restore points comes up; with the latest snapshot at the top of the list. Just cursor down to the one you want and hit enter and off you go. If you only have one baseline restore point, it will be marked as "Installation", and is the only one you cannot delete. But all you have to do to roll back to it is to cursor down once or twice and then hit enter.
>>>
>>> All in all, RollBAck RX Pro is well worth the money. It has saved my other half countless hours of re-installing over the years he's been using it.
>>>
>>> Lynne
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> =======================================
>>>
>>> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free
>>>
>>> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
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>>>
>>> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites:
>>>
>>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html
>>>
>>> Or:
>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat at techno-chat.net>
>>> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
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>>
>>
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>>
>> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free
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> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free
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From gordon at mac-access.net  Mon Oct 10 13:02:04 2011
From: gordon at mac-access.net (Gordon Smith)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 13:02:04 +0100
Subject: I just recede the Infovox inKey
Message-ID: <4DCBA50A-CA96-4E85-83E9-AB2C96BB6BEB@mac-access.net>

Hi all.

OK, that's it; bye bye to those horrible Windows voices, hello to iVox under Windows.  Now we will see if there's a difference in performance.

Gordon


From gordon at mac-access.net  Mon Oct 10 13:09:08 2011
From: gordon at mac-access.net (Gordon Smith)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 13:09:08 +0100
Subject: Rollback and Windows System Restore
In-Reply-To: <4E92C918.5050507@techno-chat.net>
References: <FB7F343C-0F6E-4883-8C31-25962ED343BB@mac-access.net>	<F8589CD7-98CC-458F-8762-18294DEF96D8@internode.on.net>	<BA3C7D78-A12A-45E3-B70F-6F955757FB02@mac-access.net>	<4E929D48.9040100@techno-chat.net>
	<4DAB6501-563B-4FC1-8435-F9CF276912C1@mac-access.net>
	<4E92C918.5050507@techno-chat.net>
Message-ID: <98950F89-E85B-47CF-8B26-84B4F9DB28EA@mac-access.net>

Hi Chris

I can tell you this; RolBack has saved me an awful lot of work over the years.  I first started using it when they were up to about version 6 and since those days it's improved out of site.  In fact, VMWare have licensed the Horizon Data System technologies and included it with their products. Fusion's "Snap Shot" facility used Rollback RX without the front-end. VMWAre Workstation also uses it I believe and VMWare Collaboration Server uses it. So clearly it must do something that system restore does not do.

If you buy if it's only about 30 quid if I remember rightly.  That 30 quid has proven to be money excellently spent.

Gordon

On 10 Oct 2011, at 11:29, chris hallsworth wrote:

No I agree and I may consider Rollback RX. I don't know though.


From chris.hallsworth at techno-chat.net  Mon Oct 10 14:07:17 2011
From: chris.hallsworth at techno-chat.net (chris hallsworth)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 14:07:17 +0100
Subject: Rollback and Windows System Restore
In-Reply-To: <98950F89-E85B-47CF-8B26-84B4F9DB28EA@mac-access.net>
References: <FB7F343C-0F6E-4883-8C31-25962ED343BB@mac-access.net>	<F8589CD7-98CC-458F-8762-18294DEF96D8@internode.on.net>	<BA3C7D78-A12A-45E3-B70F-6F955757FB02@mac-access.net>	<4E929D48.9040100@techno-chat.net>	<4DAB6501-563B-4FC1-8435-F9CF276912C1@mac-access.net>	<4E92C918.5050507@techno-chat.net>
	<98950F89-E85B-47CF-8B26-84B4F9DB28EA@mac-access.net>
Message-ID: <4E92EE05.6080803@techno-chat.net>

But can I ask, what happens if I need to change computers? Because they 
use online activation don't they, which I can fully understand but you 
know what if. Thanks!

On 10/10/2011 13:09, Gordon Smith wrote:
> Hi Chris
>
> I can tell you this; RolBack has saved me an awful lot of work over the years.  I first started using it when they were up to about version 6 and since those days it's improved out of site.  In fact, VMWare have licensed the Horizon Data System technologies and included it with their products. Fusion's "Snap Shot" facility used Rollback RX without the front-end. VMWAre Workstation also uses it I believe and VMWare Collaboration Server uses it. So clearly it must do something that system restore does not do.
>
> If you buy if it's only about 30 quid if I remember rightly.  That 30 quid has proven to be money excellently spent.
>
> Gordon
>
> On 10 Oct 2011, at 11:29, chris hallsworth wrote:
>
> No I agree and I may consider Rollback RX. I don't know though.
>
>
> =======================================
>
> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free
>
> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat
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>
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>
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> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
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From martin at x.it.okstate.edu  Mon Oct 10 16:34:07 2011
From: martin at x.it.okstate.edu (Martin McCormick)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 10:34:07 -0500
Subject: The Only Truly Secure Computer is Powered Off in a Sealed Room.
Message-ID: <201110101534.p9AFY7Tm057519@x.it.okstate.edu>

	I have been reading the discussion on this list about
Windows security and it brings a couple of things to mind.

	The first thing is that whatever operating system is the
most common is also the most vulnerable. Microsoft hasn't done
all they possibly could have done, but being the most common has
its risks.

	When I first started working in IT, Sun work stations as
in the Sun Sparc models, were not uncommon in university
settings and a number of commercial operations. You guessed it;
along with some of the early DOS mal ware, there were Unix exploits
that looked for and too-often found holes in security such as
buffer overflows or timing hacks that could let a miscreant
become root and own the system.

	Over the last 20 years, Unix of most flavors has become mostly
very good at rejecting the OS-related hacks, but people can
still leave the barn door open with weak passwords or by
continuing to run out-dated versions of their operating systems
when it is known that certain vulnerabilities exist.

	Microsoft Windows is much better than it used to be
regarding security, but it is still open to more cracking than
we would like to think because of its basic design. There are
just too many inter-related very complex subsystems so a little
javascript here and a bug or two there and you're done or done for.

	So, my first point is that if you run a less-common OS
like MacOS or Linux, you are automatically a little safer as
long as you don't set a weak password and keep your OS up to
date.

	My second point is that if you are thought to be a
high-value target, the bad guys will stop at nothing to get in
so if you have the combination to the safe holding the Crown
Jewels, you had better not store it on your computer.

	The country of Iran wants a nuclear bomb so bad they can
almost taste it. Some Middle Eastern leader was quoted as saying
that his worst fears are that Iran will get the Bomb and the US
or Israel will try to stop them.

	I certainly do not have access to any classified
information and if I did, I wouldn't spill it here, but NPR had
a news report several months ago that described how the US and
Israel did apparently set the Iranian program back some years.

	It seems that Iran's Nuclear weapons program uses
computers which are not connected to modems or the internet so
someone can't just find them out there and mess with them.

	No problem. How about a little social engineering. It is
possible that what happened was that Iranian nuclear engineers
went to some trade conference somewhere and were probably
showered with goodies such as sales promotions from software
companies. These may have included thumb drives full of "free"
software that any self-respecting Iranian nuclear professional
would love to have.

	It's possible that those thumb drives were also loaded
with what we today call stuxnet.

	This is a sophisticated virus that really doesn't do
much to your computer except infect everything and spread to any
other computer it can talk to but the real black magic happens
when the stuxnet-infected computer has a specific device called
a "programmable logic controller" or PLC.

	PLC's are everywhere in industry and are the interface
between a computer and the motors, pumps and other machinery in
a factory. It could be a factory that makes house paint, chairs,
dog food or bombs.

	Apparently, the Western countries knew the exact make
and model of Iran's PLC's so stuxnet was written to see if a
computer was connected to this model of PlC and, if so, modify
the PLC's operating system so that it would make the machines
they were controlling essentially commit suicide by running too
fast or running in some other way as to destroy themselves but
report that all was well.

	In other words, if they want in badly enough, they will
go to any extreme to do so.

From gordon at mac-access.net  Mon Oct 10 17:20:47 2011
From: gordon at mac-access.net (Gordon Smith)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 17:20:47 +0100
Subject: Rollback and Windows System Restore
In-Reply-To: <4E92EE05.6080803@techno-chat.net>
References: <FB7F343C-0F6E-4883-8C31-25962ED343BB@mac-access.net>	<F8589CD7-98CC-458F-8762-18294DEF96D8@internode.on.net>	<BA3C7D78-A12A-45E3-B70F-6F955757FB02@mac-access.net>	<4E929D48.9040100@techno-chat.net>	<4DAB6501-563B-4FC1-8435-F9CF276912C1@mac-access.net>	<4E92C918.5050507@techno-chat.net>
	<98950F89-E85B-47CF-8B26-84B4F9DB28EA@mac-access.net>
	<4E92EE05.6080803@techno-chat.net>
Message-ID: <07E5DB5C-69F5-4E94-A4D2-9A8600BC7BB7@mac-access.net>

hello Chris

Hey, guess what?  You just deactivate the programme again. :)

Gordon


On 10 Oct 2011, at 14:07, chris hallsworth wrote:

But can I ask, what happens if I need to change computers? Because they use online activation don't they, which I can fully understand but you know what if. Thanks!


From gordon at mac-access.net  Mon Oct 10 17:25:08 2011
From: gordon at mac-access.net (Gordon Smith)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 17:25:08 +0100
Subject: The Only Truly Secure Computer is Powered Off in a Sealed Room.
In-Reply-To: <201110101534.p9AFY7Tm057519@x.it.okstate.edu>
References: <201110101534.p9AFY7Tm057519@x.it.okstate.edu>
Message-ID: <66876056-1CB6-40EA-8C01-8E22E3C444A3@mac-access.net>

Martin

I'm not going to quote all of your message because it's very long and drawn out.  But yes, absolutely right, no operating system or user is completely safe and anybody who believes they are is either living in a sand pit with their head buried in the sand or they are exceedingly arrogant and they deserve to be hacked.

Nobody, absolutely nobody who runs a computer system with access to a network or to influences of data from the outside world, is secure.  Those people who say things like "Nobody can harm my computer because I run, blah blah blah" deserve to be taught a good harsh lesson.

Gordon

On 10 Oct 2011, at 16:34, Martin McCormick wrote:

	I have been reading the discussion on this list about
Windows security and it brings a couple of things to mind.


From chris.hallsworth at techno-chat.net  Mon Oct 10 17:30:45 2011
From: chris.hallsworth at techno-chat.net (chris hallsworth)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 17:30:45 +0100
Subject: Rollback and Windows System Restore
In-Reply-To: <07E5DB5C-69F5-4E94-A4D2-9A8600BC7BB7@mac-access.net>
References: <FB7F343C-0F6E-4883-8C31-25962ED343BB@mac-access.net>	<F8589CD7-98CC-458F-8762-18294DEF96D8@internode.on.net>	<BA3C7D78-A12A-45E3-B70F-6F955757FB02@mac-access.net>	<4E929D48.9040100@techno-chat.net>	<4DAB6501-563B-4FC1-8435-F9CF276912C1@mac-access.net>	<4E92C918.5050507@techno-chat.net>	<98950F89-E85B-47CF-8B26-84B4F9DB28EA@mac-access.net>	<4E92EE05.6080803@techno-chat.net>
	<07E5DB5C-69F5-4E94-A4D2-9A8600BC7BB7@mac-access.net>
Message-ID: <4E931DB5.7030704@techno-chat.net>

Oh wow, so say my computer went bust and I could not deactivate it? If I 
activate on the new computer will it automatically deactivate the first? 
Thanks!

On 10/10/2011 17:20, Gordon Smith wrote:
> hello Chris
>
> Hey, guess what?  You just deactivate the programme again. :)
>
> Gordon
>
>
> On 10 Oct 2011, at 14:07, chris hallsworth wrote:
>
> But can I ask, what happens if I need to change computers? Because they use online activation don't they, which I can fully understand but you know what if. Thanks!
>
>
> =======================================
>
> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free
>
> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
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>
> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites:
>
> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html
>
> Or:
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> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
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>

From gordon at mac-access.net  Mon Oct 10 18:21:50 2011
From: gordon at mac-access.net (Gordon Smith)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 18:21:50 +0100
Subject: Rollback and Windows System Restore
In-Reply-To: <4E931DB5.7030704@techno-chat.net>
References: <FB7F343C-0F6E-4883-8C31-25962ED343BB@mac-access.net>	<F8589CD7-98CC-458F-8762-18294DEF96D8@internode.on.net>	<BA3C7D78-A12A-45E3-B70F-6F955757FB02@mac-access.net>	<4E929D48.9040100@techno-chat.net>	<4DAB6501-563B-4FC1-8435-F9CF276912C1@mac-access.net>	<4E92C918.5050507@techno-chat.net>	<98950F89-E85B-47CF-8B26-84B4F9DB28EA@mac-access.net>	<4E92EE05.6080803@techno-chat.net>
	<07E5DB5C-69F5-4E94-A4D2-9A8600BC7BB7@mac-access.net>
	<4E931DB5.7030704@techno-chat.net>
Message-ID: <90E9304C-913C-484A-BF24-7056020C9535@mac-access.net>

Chris

You're trying to make things difficult for yourself. :) All you do is contact support and they will sort you out.

Gordon


On 10 Oct 2011, at 17:30, chris hallsworth wrote:

Oh wow, so say my computer went bust and I could not deactivate it? If I activate on the new computer will it automatically deactivate the first? Thanks!

On 10/10/2011 17:20, Gordon Smith wrote:
> hello Chris
> 
> Hey, guess what?  You just deactivate the programme again. :)
> 
> Gordon
> 
> 
> On 10 Oct 2011, at 14:07, chris hallsworth wrote:
> 
> But can I ask, what happens if I need to change computers? Because they use online activation don't they, which I can fully understand but you know what if. Thanks!
> 
> 
> =======================================
> 
> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free
> 
> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat
> 
> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites:
> 
> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html
> 
> Or:
> <http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat at techno-chat.net>
> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
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From chris.hallsworth at techno-chat.net  Mon Oct 10 18:49:33 2011
From: chris.hallsworth at techno-chat.net (chris hallsworth)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 18:49:33 +0100
Subject: Rollback and Windows System Restore
In-Reply-To: <90E9304C-913C-484A-BF24-7056020C9535@mac-access.net>
References: <FB7F343C-0F6E-4883-8C31-25962ED343BB@mac-access.net>	<F8589CD7-98CC-458F-8762-18294DEF96D8@internode.on.net>	<BA3C7D78-A12A-45E3-B70F-6F955757FB02@mac-access.net>	<4E929D48.9040100@techno-chat.net>	<4DAB6501-563B-4FC1-8435-F9CF276912C1@mac-access.net>	<4E92C918.5050507@techno-chat.net>	<98950F89-E85B-47CF-8B26-84B4F9DB28EA@mac-access.net>	<4E92EE05.6080803@techno-chat.net>	<07E5DB5C-69F5-4E94-A4D2-9A8600BC7BB7@mac-access.net>	<4E931DB5.7030704@techno-chat.net>
	<90E9304C-913C-484A-BF24-7056020C9535@mac-access.net>
Message-ID: <4E93302D.1090301@techno-chat.net>

Ar very true. Sorry about that. Thanks for your help as always.

On 10/10/2011 18:21, Gordon Smith wrote:
> Chris
>
> You're trying to make things difficult for yourself. :) All you do is contact support and they will sort you out.
>
> Gordon
>
>
> On 10 Oct 2011, at 17:30, chris hallsworth wrote:
>
> Oh wow, so say my computer went bust and I could not deactivate it? If I activate on the new computer will it automatically deactivate the first? Thanks!
>
> On 10/10/2011 17:20, Gordon Smith wrote:
>> hello Chris
>>
>> Hey, guess what?  You just deactivate the programme again. :)
>>
>> Gordon
>>
>>
>> On 10 Oct 2011, at 14:07, chris hallsworth wrote:
>>
>> But can I ask, what happens if I need to change computers? Because they use online activation don't they, which I can fully understand but you know what if. Thanks!
>>
>>
>> =======================================
>>
>> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free
>>
>> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat
>>
>> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites:
>>
>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html
>>
>> Or:
>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat at techno-chat.net>
>> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat at techno-chat.net/maillist.xml>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------
>>
>
> =======================================
>
> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free
>
> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat
>
> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites:
>
> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html
>
> Or:
> <http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat at techno-chat.net>
> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
> <http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat at techno-chat.net/maillist.xml>
>
> ---------------------------------------
>
>
> =======================================
>
> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free
>
> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat
>
> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites:
>
> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html
>
> Or:
> <http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat at techno-chat.net>
> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
> <http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat at techno-chat.net/maillist.xml>
>
> ---------------------------------------
>

From lynne at mac-access.net  Mon Oct 10 20:48:12 2011
From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 20:48:12 +0100
Subject: System Utilities
In-Reply-To: <4E93302D.1090301@techno-chat.net>
References: <FB7F343C-0F6E-4883-8C31-25962ED343BB@mac-access.net>	<F8589CD7-98CC-458F-8762-18294DEF96D8@internode.on.net>	<BA3C7D78-A12A-45E3-B70F-6F955757FB02@mac-access.net>	<4E929D48.9040100@techno-chat.net>	<4DAB6501-563B-4FC1-8435-F9CF276912C1@mac-access.net>	<4E92C918.5050507@techno-chat.net>	<98950F89-E85B-47CF-8B26-84B4F9DB28EA@mac-access.net>	<4E92EE05.6080803@techno-chat.net>	<07E5DB5C-69F5-4E94-A4D2-9A8600BC7BB7@mac-access.net>	<4E931DB5.7030704@techno-chat.net>
	<90E9304C-913C-484A-BF24-7056020C9535@mac-access.net>
	<4E93302D.1090301@techno-chat.net>
Message-ID: <8BA6B783-ABB9-480C-9EC9-3D498B1C76D9@mac-access.net>

Hello Chris

On 10 Oct 2011, at 18:49, chris hallsworth wrote:

Ar very true. Sorry about that. Thanks for your help as always.

I actually understand your concerns, but honestly you need have no worries on that score. They do look after you properly. We are using it on our NetBook although I am going to have to temporarily disable RB soon when I upgrade Diskeeper; another great utility. I am not sure whether the two can coexist yet.

Lynne


From gordon at mac-access.net  Tue Oct 11 14:11:58 2011
From: gordon at mac-access.net (Gordon Smith)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2011 14:11:58 +0100
Subject: Windows 7 and Infovox iVox version 3  with NVDA
Message-ID: <EBDC6D35-70AB-42BB-8415-5A20814A5B6D@mac-access.net>

Hi all

Is anybody interested in my findings and thoughts on this subject?  No point writing if not; but if so I can write something up for the group.

Gordon



From gordon at mac-access.net  Tue Oct 11 14:48:56 2011
From: gordon at mac-access.net (Gordon Smith)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2011 14:48:56 +0100
Subject: Microsoft Versus Mozilla And The Rest
Message-ID: <0D5307B6-025D-40C9-9AAD-1908020FFCFB@mac-access.net>

Hi all

This is something which I personally have my own thoughts on but I wanted to see what other people in the group think before I make a decision.  It's possible that I'm overlooking something.

We want a reliable, easy-to-use email and messaging solution for our NetBook.  We're hoping that we'll be able to use this portably as well as here at home.  So, here we go.

We are looking for an easy-to-use and configure, reliable suite of programmes for use under Windows 7 for E-Mail and messaging 
w
We are not afraid of buying if that's what it takes.  But I'm way off when it comes to Windows applications.

I have looked at the spec of Outlook 2010, but I haven't bought yet because I don't know how accessible or otherwise it is.  I have tried Thunderbird from Mozilla, but to be totally honest, when I tied it I wasn't all that taken with the interface.  It could be Window-Eyes;  but I didn't find Thunderbird particularly nice to use.

I'm not averse t the concept of ditching Window-Eyes completely, and switching to either NVDA or Thunder, both of which are distributed as part of the Acapela InfoVox InKey USB which we now have in our collection of accessibility tools.

Newsgroups are something which doesn't really interest me and Facebook isn't my kind of thing either judging by what I've heard of it.  Twitter is becoming quite boring to be honest.  So, much as I dislike Outlook Expres and Windows Mail, I can only see two possibilities at the moment.  It would seem to be a choice of either getting used to the interface of Thunderbird, or else buying Outlook 2010 which would set us back 120 Pounds.  Not really something I wanted to do.

Thoughts and opinions welcome.

Gordon



From grtdane at internode.on.net  Tue Oct 11 15:31:23 2011
From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2011 01:31:23 +1100
Subject: Microsoft Versus Mozilla And The Rest
In-Reply-To: <0D5307B6-025D-40C9-9AAD-1908020FFCFB@mac-access.net>
References: <0D5307B6-025D-40C9-9AAD-1908020FFCFB@mac-access.net>
Message-ID: <9A572496-BA70-49AA-82A2-8251F43FE485@internode.on.net>

Yep, Thunderbird is an absolute pain in the behind to use with Window-Eyes, I use NVDA as my Screen Reading solution of choice these days and Thunderbird has done and probably always will work very well with NVDA and why shouldn't it as Thunderbird uses standard controls which any Screen Reading solution should be able to access thus its a bit of a blot on the part of GW Micro that WE has trouble.

I'm not saying that NVDA is totally unusable with WE, there are a few things one can do but most users would be extremely annoyed in a few seconds <smile>.

Interface is perfectly simple, you toggle between panes of Thunderbird with the f6 key, for example if you set Thunderbird to start displaying the "In Box", pressing f6 brings up the tree view of mailboxes, pressing it again brings up the table of messages associated with the particular mailbox you have selected, pressing f6 again brings up any other window you have open and so on through the cycle.

You can also use tab to move about.

Remember that Thunderbird is extremely configurable when it comes to windows and tabs so you could for example configure everything to open in one window which I don't personally recommend or you could configure everything to open in separate windows, for example 1 window with an open message, another Window with the contents of a mailbox displaying and so on.

Perhaps "Windows" is a bit of a miss leading description here because you use alt-Tab to toggle between them like applications if you will.


On 12/10/2011, at 12:48 AM, Gordon Smith wrote:

> Hi all
> 
> This is something which I personally have my own thoughts on but I wanted to see what other people in the group think before I make a decision.  It's possible that I'm overlooking something.
> 
> We want a reliable, easy-to-use email and messaging solution for our NetBook.  We're hoping that we'll be able to use this portably as well as here at home.  So, here we go.
> 
> We are looking for an easy-to-use and configure, reliable suite of programmes for use under Windows 7 for E-Mail and messaging 
> w
> We are not afraid of buying if that's what it takes.  But I'm way off when it comes to Windows applications.
> 
> I have looked at the spec of Outlook 2010, but I haven't bought yet because I don't know how accessible or otherwise it is.  I have tried Thunderbird from Mozilla, but to be totally honest, when I tied it I wasn't all that taken with the interface.  It could be Window-Eyes;  but I didn't find Thunderbird particularly nice to use.
> 
> I'm not averse t the concept of ditching Window-Eyes completely, and switching to either NVDA or Thunder, both of which are distributed as part of the Acapela InfoVox InKey USB which we now have in our collection of accessibility tools.
> 
> Newsgroups are something which doesn't really interest me and Facebook isn't my kind of thing either judging by what I've heard of it.  Twitter is becoming quite boring to be honest.  So, much as I dislike Outlook Expres and Windows Mail, I can only see two possibilities at the moment.  It would seem to be a choice of either getting used to the interface of Thunderbird, or else buying Outlook 2010 which would set us back 120 Pounds.  Not really something I wanted to do.
> 
> Thoughts and opinions welcome.
> 
> Gordon
> 
> 
> 
> =======================================
> 
> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free
> 
> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat
> 
> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites:
> 
> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html
> 
> Or:
> <http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat at techno-chat.net>
> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
> <http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat at techno-chat.net/maillist.xml>
> 
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From roger.firman at btinternet.com  Tue Oct 11 15:31:32 2011
From: roger.firman at btinternet.com (Roger Firman)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2011 15:31:32 +0100
Subject: Microsoft Versus Mozilla And The Rest
In-Reply-To: <0D5307B6-025D-40C9-9AAD-1908020FFCFB@mac-access.net>
Message-ID: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAA+dUVQqKIdEKdWPCtWTXi7+KAAAAQAAAAJqagArMDBUyonVFtparlSQEAAAAA@btinternet.com>

Gordon,

In reply to your message, I wonder if you might find Thunderbird a more
secure option.

Roger.


From express_able at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 11 16:32:45 2011
From: express_able at yahoo.com (Chris Johnson)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2011 09:32:45 -0600
Subject: Microsoft Products and substitutes for same
In-Reply-To: <24A5785A-52C7-4F31-8042-8E4806124ABF@mac-access.net>
References: <D93A3AE7-C3A0-49E6-8FA7-449C98FF7746@mac-access.net>	<4E91B86C.2000106@techno-chat.net>
	<1F5500CC-948E-4484-B044-D5836CA69B1C@mac-access.net>
	<4E91CEB2.6030906@techno-chat.net>
	<A8CA2FE9-7875-43FB-B909-87C54204E555@mac-access.net>
	<15942E02-F0E6-4869-BC76-0892E4A85BF0@internode.on.net>
	<82F72DEC-23B6-459E-821B-0CC6F9C22697@mac-access.net>
	<763E8E7B-879B-4DAA-A97D-10383392C965@internode.on.net>
	<8FDB1669-4FF7-4697-B6F4-44C15C0BC694@mac-access.net>
	<4E92345E.1010406@internode.on.net>
	<8C90C546-6460-42E0-B148-017A3933E985@mac-access.net>
	<4E923BC7.5090401@internode.on.net>
	<EDF5FBB3-5B87-4980-A8D2-BAB05A9448AD@mac-access.net>
	<A7385436-81BD-4F2A-A7FA-0B1117A298C6@gmail.com>
	<01F5D748-7325-49E6-8000-4136E8A54B18@mac-access.net>
	<00B818B9-1191-4906-BC37-207EE027F2D7@gmail.com>
	<AF1CF7F5-F3F0-42C2-80CE-CA7EB44F8F58@mac-access.net>
	<8B606CA4-C1AB-4B34-9A71-C845E01D871A@btinternet.com>
	<24A5785A-52C7-4F31-8042-8E4806124ABF@mac-access.net>
Message-ID: <4E94619D.8030007@yahoo.com>

Is this what you are looking for?:
http://www.rsc-ne-scotland.ac.uk/eduapps/createconvert.php

Chris Johnson,
A T Specialist,
express ABLE

On 10/10/11 3:25 AM, Gordon Smith wrote:
> Hi David
>
> Unfortunately, you're not quite talking about the same thing here.  We're talking about a "Publisher", not a "Creator".  The two are very different concepts.
>
> A "Publisher" is a product which allows you to manipulate different types of material and create the layout of the DAISY content.  It is possible to create a DAISY book quite easily, but the free options you describe clearly have restrictions and aren't the same as a full-blown publisher.
>
> Thanks for the suggestions but actually we ourselves are not looking for a Windows-based solution.  Nor do I use JFW, thank goodness! :)
>
> As for the Word option, definitely not!  Again it isn't a publisher.  It is a creator.  The two concepts are very different.  We are simply not prepared to go that route and buy Office or any of its components.
>
> Gordon
>
>
> On 10 Oct 2011, at 06:26, David Griffith wrote:
>
> I have only come into the thread late and this may not be the solution sought.
>
> Re Daisy Book audio book production.
> There are easy free and powerful free options on the windows side. The one I use is the free daisy Book generator. This program works with any collection of mp3 files to convert them into a daisy book. .  There a few restrictions. The files must be named sequentially in the order in which they are to be played and the filenames must not include any spaces. I use at the excellent free bulk rename utility if this is an issue with files I am trying to convert into  daisy book. The program works in a command window but is accessible in Jaws. In essence all you have to do is collect your files into a folder, hit the application key whilst the folder is highlighted and then select daisy from the context  menu in explorer. Now press enter when daisy book generator starts up, and then press enter to exit the program. You can review the progress of the program with insert b but it is very quick at conversion. The folder will them be a daisy book.
>
> If you need a text based daisy option there is the daisy plugin for Microsoft word. Obviously you have to pay for word but I think the plugin is free. i never used this but did use the free daisy pipeline
> option  which takes more setting up. Unfortunately I do not have access to the machine I set this up on so detailed advice on daisy pipeline will have to come from a current user.
>
>
> =======================================
>
> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free
>
> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat
>
> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites:
>
> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html
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From express_able at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 11 16:43:48 2011
From: express_able at yahoo.com (Chris Johnson)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2011 09:43:48 -0600
Subject: Microsoft Products and substitutes for same
In-Reply-To: <24A5785A-52C7-4F31-8042-8E4806124ABF@mac-access.net>
References: <D93A3AE7-C3A0-49E6-8FA7-449C98FF7746@mac-access.net>	<4E91B86C.2000106@techno-chat.net>
	<1F5500CC-948E-4484-B044-D5836CA69B1C@mac-access.net>
	<4E91CEB2.6030906@techno-chat.net>
	<A8CA2FE9-7875-43FB-B909-87C54204E555@mac-access.net>
	<15942E02-F0E6-4869-BC76-0892E4A85BF0@internode.on.net>
	<82F72DEC-23B6-459E-821B-0CC6F9C22697@mac-access.net>
	<763E8E7B-879B-4DAA-A97D-10383392C965@internode.on.net>
	<8FDB1669-4FF7-4697-B6F4-44C15C0BC694@mac-access.net>
	<4E92345E.1010406@internode.on.net>
	<8C90C546-6460-42E0-B148-017A3933E985@mac-access.net>
	<4E923BC7.5090401@internode.on.net>
	<EDF5FBB3-5B87-4980-A8D2-BAB05A9448AD@mac-access.net>
	<A7385436-81BD-4F2A-A7FA-0B1117A298C6@gmail.com>
	<01F5D748-7325-49E6-8000-4136E8A54B18@mac-access.net>
	<00B818B9-1191-4906-BC37-207EE027F2D7@gmail.com>
	<AF1CF7F5-F3F0-42C2-80CE-CA7EB44F8F58@mac-access.net>
	<8B606CA4-C1AB-4B34-9A71-C845E01D871A@btinternet.com>
	<24A5785A-52C7-4F31-8042-8E4806124ABF@mac-access.net>
Message-ID: <4E946434.2070203@yahoo.com>

Sorry, wrong link.  Below is the link for the free Create and Convert 
system:
<http://www.rsc-ne-scotland.ac.uk/eduapps/createconvert.php>http://eduapps.org/?page_id=10
<http://eduapps.org/?page_id=10>
Chris Johnson,
A T Specialist,
express ABLE

On 10/10/11 3:25 AM, Gordon Smith wrote:
> Hi David
>
> Unfortunately, you're not quite talking about the same thing here.  We're talking about a "Publisher", not a "Creator".  The two are very different concepts.
>
> A "Publisher" is a product which allows you to manipulate different types of material and create the layout of the DAISY content.  It is possible to create a DAISY book quite easily, but the free options you describe clearly have restrictions and aren't the same as a full-blown publisher.
>
> Thanks for the suggestions but actually we ourselves are not looking for a Windows-based solution.  Nor do I use JFW, thank goodness! :)
>
> As for the Word option, definitely not!  Again it isn't a publisher.  It is a creator.  The two concepts are very different.  We are simply not prepared to go that route and buy Office or any of its components.
>
> Gordon
>
>
> On 10 Oct 2011, at 06:26, David Griffith wrote:
>
> I have only come into the thread late and this may not be the solution sought.
>
> Re Daisy Book audio book production.
> There are easy free and powerful free options on the windows side. The one I use is the free daisy Book generator. This program works with any collection of mp3 files to convert them into a daisy book. .  There a few restrictions. The files must be named sequentially in the order in which they are to be played and the filenames must not include any spaces. I use at the excellent free bulk rename utility if this is an issue with files I am trying to convert into  daisy book. The program works in a command window but is accessible in Jaws. In essence all you have to do is collect your files into a folder, hit the application key whilst the folder is highlighted and then select daisy from the context  menu in explorer. Now press enter when daisy book generator starts up, and then press enter to exit the program. You can review the progress of the program with insert b but it is very quick at conversion. The folder will them be a daisy book.
>
> If you need a text based daisy option there is the daisy plugin for Microsoft word. Obviously you have to pay for word but I think the plugin is free. i never used this but did use the free daisy pipeline
> option  which takes more setting up. Unfortunately I do not have access to the machine I set this up on so detailed advice on daisy pipeline will have to come from a current user.
>
>
> =======================================
>
> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free
>
> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat
>
> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites:
>
> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html
>
> Or:
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> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
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>

From lynne at mac-access.net  Tue Oct 11 23:43:14 2011
From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2011 23:43:14 +0100
Subject: Microsoft Versus Mozilla And The Rest
In-Reply-To: <9A572496-BA70-49AA-82A2-8251F43FE485@internode.on.net>
References: <0D5307B6-025D-40C9-9AAD-1908020FFCFB@mac-access.net>
	<9A572496-BA70-49AA-82A2-8251F43FE485@internode.on.net>
Message-ID: <617A51D2-5CB8-40B9-A830-FDDA58A8D256@mac-access.net>

Hello Dane and all

I'm lead to belief that they are actually MSAA controls which, They say, Window-Eyes and JFW and the rest of the bunch should pick up without a problem. But based on what we saw when testing with the then latest version of Thunderbird and the then latest version of Window-Eyes, there where some pretty horrendous issues.

I'm told also now that there is what GW now calls an "App" on their website that you can use to use Window-Eyes and Thunderbird get along together.

But really; you shouldn't have to muck around with scripting and apps just to make a strait forward piece of software wok; and I think GW Micro should be ashamed of themselves.

Possibly they've hard fix the problem, just as they appear to have hard-broken it. Thunderbird used to work so I am told.

On the same sort of subject I wonder which is the best browser to use these days; Internet Explorer version 9.0, FireFox version 6.0 or even Google Chrome?

I am hearing good things about Google Chrome but then again, the very name of Google gives me the shivers. I know what their mail service is like.

The description of "Windows" is perfectly correct, they are Windows.

Lynne


On 11 Oct 2011, at 15:31, Dane Trethowan wrote:

? Yep, Thunderbird is an absolute pain in the behind to use with Window-Eyes, I use NVDA as my Screen Reading solution of choice these days and Thunderbird has done and probably always will work very well with NVDA and why shouldn't it as Thunderbird uses standard controls which any Screen Reading solution should be able to access thus its a bit of a blot on the part of GW Micro that WE has trouble.


? I'm not saying that NVDA is totally unusable with WE, there are a few things one can do but most users would be extremely annoyed in a few seconds <smile>.

? Interface is perfectly simple, you toggle between panes of Thunderbird with the f6 key, for example if you set Thunderbird to start displaying the "In Box", pressing f6 brings up the tree view of mailboxes, pressing it again brings up the table of messages associated with the particular mailbox you have selected, pressing f6 again brings up any other window you have open and so on through the cycle.

? You can also use tab to move about.

Remember that Thunderbird is extremely configurable when it comes to windows and tabs so you could for example configure everything to open in one window which I don't personally recommend or you could configure everything to open in separate windows, for example 1 window with an open message, another Window with the contents of a mailbox displaying and so on.

Perhaps "Windows" is a bit of a miss leading description here because you use alt-Tab to toggle between them like applications if you will.


On 12/10/2011, at 12:48 AM, Gordon Smith wrote:

> Hi all
> 
> This is something which I personally have my own thoughts on but I wanted to see what other people in the group think before I make a decision.  It's possible that I'm overlooking something.
> 
> We want a reliable, easy-to-use email and messaging solution for our NetBook.  We're hoping that we'll be able to use this portably as well as here at home.  So, here we go.
> 
> We are looking for an easy-to-use and configure, reliable suite of programmes for use under Windows 7 for E-Mail and messaging 
> w
> We are not afraid of buying if that's what it takes.  But I'm way off when it comes to Windows applications.
> 
> I have looked at the spec of Outlook 2010, but I haven't bought yet because I don't know how accessible or otherwise it is.  I have tried Thunderbird from Mozilla, but to be totally honest, when I tied it I wasn't all that taken with the interface.  It could be Window-Eyes;  but I didn't find Thunderbird particularly nice to use.
> 
> I'm not averse t the concept of ditching Window-Eyes completely, and switching to either NVDA or Thunder, both of which are distributed as part of the Acapela InfoVox InKey USB which we now have in our collection of accessibility tools.
> 
> Newsgroups are something which doesn't really interest me and Facebook isn't my kind of thing either judging by what I've heard of it.  Twitter is becoming quite boring to be honest.  So, much as I dislike Outlook Expres and Windows Mail, I can only see two possibilities at the moment.  It would seem to be a choice of either getting used to the interface of Thunderbird, or else buying Outlook 2010 which would set us back 120 Pounds.  Not really something I wanted to do.
> 
> Thoughts and opinions welcome.
> 
> Gordon
> 
> 
> 
> =======================================
> 
> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free
> 
> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
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> 
> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites:
> 
> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html
> 
> Or:
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> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
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The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free

To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
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---------------------------------------


From lynne at mac-access.net  Tue Oct 11 23:46:40 2011
From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2011 23:46:40 +0100
Subject: Microsoft Versus Mozilla And The Rest
In-Reply-To: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAA+dUVQqKIdEKdWPCtWTXi7+KAAAAQAAAAJqagArMDBUyonVFtparlSQEAAAAA@btinternet.com>
References: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAA+dUVQqKIdEKdWPCtWTXi7+KAAAAQAAAAJqagArMDBUyonVFtparlSQEAAAAA@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <AB043731-EA83-411C-BCE3-77546F13B346@mac-access.net>

Hello Roger

This is actually Lynne replying; but it comes to the same thing. :) It had occurred to us actually and I think we're leaning that way. Gordon's question about Microsoft Outlook 2010 was simply testing the water in case we went that way. But to be honest I'm a little reluctant to spend that kind of money on an email client which we won't be using most of the time.

Thank you for your comment.

Lynne


On 11 Oct 2011, at 15:31, Roger Firman wrote:

In reply to your message, I wonder if you might find Thunderbird a more
secure option.


From lynne at mac-access.net  Tue Oct 11 23:50:36 2011
From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2011 23:50:36 +0100
Subject: Microsoft Products and substitutes for same
In-Reply-To: <4E94619D.8030007@yahoo.com>
References: <D93A3AE7-C3A0-49E6-8FA7-449C98FF7746@mac-access.net>	<4E91B86C.2000106@techno-chat.net>
	<1F5500CC-948E-4484-B044-D5836CA69B1C@mac-access.net>
	<4E91CEB2.6030906@techno-chat.net>
	<A8CA2FE9-7875-43FB-B909-87C54204E555@mac-access.net>
	<15942E02-F0E6-4869-BC76-0892E4A85BF0@internode.on.net>
	<82F72DEC-23B6-459E-821B-0CC6F9C22697@mac-access.net>
	<763E8E7B-879B-4DAA-A97D-10383392C965@internode.on.net>
	<8FDB1669-4FF7-4697-B6F4-44C15C0BC694@mac-access.net>
	<4E92345E.1010406@internode.on.net>
	<8C90C546-6460-42E0-B148-017A3933E985@mac-access.net>
	<4E923BC7.5090401@internode.on.net>
	<EDF5FBB3-5B87-4980-A8D2-BAB05A9448AD@mac-access.net>
	<A7385436-81BD-4F2A-A7FA-0B1117A298C6@gmail.com>
	<01F5D748-7325-49E6-8000-4136E8A54B18@mac-access.net>
	<00B818B9-1191-4906-BC37-207EE027F2D7@gmail.com>
	<AF1CF7F5-F3F0-42C2-80CE-CA7EB44F8F58@mac-access.net>
	<8B606CA4-C1AB-4B34-9A71-C845E01D871A@btinternet.com>
	<24A5785A-52C7-4F31-8042-8E4806124ABF@mac-access.net>
	<4E94619D.8030007@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <7594398F-BF1A-4FFA-9CEC-2EC86E25838A@mac-access.net>

hello Chris

Not really, it gives us a 404 page not found error. :)

On 11 Oct 2011, at 16:32, Chris Johnson wrote:

Is this what you are looking for?:
http://www.rsc-ne-scotland.ac.uk/eduapps/createconvert.php


From lynne at mac-access.net  Wed Oct 12 00:01:48 2011
From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2011 00:01:48 +0100
Subject: Microsoft Products and substitutes for same
In-Reply-To: <4E946434.2070203@yahoo.com>
References: <D93A3AE7-C3A0-49E6-8FA7-449C98FF7746@mac-access.net>	<4E91B86C.2000106@techno-chat.net>
	<1F5500CC-948E-4484-B044-D5836CA69B1C@mac-access.net>
	<4E91CEB2.6030906@techno-chat.net>
	<A8CA2FE9-7875-43FB-B909-87C54204E555@mac-access.net>
	<15942E02-F0E6-4869-BC76-0892E4A85BF0@internode.on.net>
	<82F72DEC-23B6-459E-821B-0CC6F9C22697@mac-access.net>
	<763E8E7B-879B-4DAA-A97D-10383392C965@internode.on.net>
	<8FDB1669-4FF7-4697-B6F4-44C15C0BC694@mac-access.net>
	<4E92345E.1010406@internode.on.net>
	<8C90C546-6460-42E0-B148-017A3933E985@mac-access.net>
	<4E923BC7.5090401@internode.on.net>
	<EDF5FBB3-5B87-4980-A8D2-BAB05A9448AD@mac-access.net>
	<A7385436-81BD-4F2A-A7FA-0B1117A298C6@gmail.com>
	<01F5D748-7325-49E6-8000-4136E8A54B18@mac-access.net>
	<00B818B9-1191-4906-BC37-207EE027F2D7@gmail.com>
	<AF1CF7F5-F3F0-42C2-80CE-CA7EB44F8F58@mac-access.net>
	<8B606CA4-C1AB-4B34-9A71-C845E01D871A@btinternet.com>
	<24A5785A-52C7-4F31-8042-8E4806124ABF@mac-access.net>
	<4E946434.2070203@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3DCC53E2-E287-46FC-ADAF-AB75CBA454E9@mac-access.net>

Hello Chris

Sorry; I replied to your previous post before I saw this one.

This is a very interesting concept. The only problem from our perspective is that it requires Office be installed by the looks of things.

Lynne

On 11 Oct 2011, at 16:43, Chris Johnson wrote:

Sorry, wrong link.  Below is the link for the free Create and Convert system:
<http://www.rsc-ne-scotland.ac.uk/eduapps/createconvert.php>http://eduapps.org/?page_id=10
<http://eduapps.org/?page_id=10>
Chris Johnson,
A T Specialist,
express ABLE

On 10/10/11 3:25 AM, Gordon Smith wrote:
> Hi David
> 
> Unfortunately, you're not quite talking about the same thing here.  We're talking about a "Publisher", not a "Creator".  The two are very different concepts.
> 
> A "Publisher" is a product which allows you to manipulate different types of material and create the layout of the DAISY content.  It is possible to create a DAISY book quite easily, but the free options you describe clearly have restrictions and aren't the same as a full-blown publisher.
> 
> Thanks for the suggestions but actually we ourselves are not looking for a Windows-based solution.  Nor do I use JFW, thank goodness! :)
> 
> As for the Word option, definitely not!  Again it isn't a publisher.  It is a creator.  The two concepts are very different.  We are simply not prepared to go that route and buy Office or any of its components.
> 
> Gordon
> 
> 
> On 10 Oct 2011, at 06:26, David Griffith wrote:
> 
> I have only come into the thread late and this may not be the solution sought.
> 
> Re Daisy Book audio book production.
> There are easy free and powerful free options on the windows side. The one I use is the free daisy Book generator. This program works with any collection of mp3 files to convert them into a daisy book. .  There a few restrictions. The files must be named sequentially in the order in which they are to be played and the filenames must not include any spaces. I use at the excellent free bulk rename utility if this is an issue with files I am trying to convert into  daisy book. The program works in a command window but is accessible in Jaws. In essence all you have to do is collect your files into a folder, hit the application key whilst the folder is highlighted and then select daisy from the context  menu in explorer. Now press enter when daisy book generator starts up, and then press enter to exit the program. You can review the progress of the program with insert b but it is very quick at conversion. The folder will them be a daisy book.
> 
> If you need a text based daisy option there is the daisy plugin for Microsoft word. Obviously you have to pay for word but I think the plugin is free. i never used this but did use the free daisy pipeline
> option  which takes more setting up. Unfortunately I do not have access to the machine I set this up on so detailed advice on daisy pipeline will have to come from a current user.
> 
> 
> =======================================
> 
> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free
> 
> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat
> 
> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites:
> 
> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html
> 
> Or:
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> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
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> 

=======================================

The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free

To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
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---------------------------------------


From grtdane at internode.on.net  Wed Oct 12 00:09:24 2011
From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2011 10:09:24 +1100
Subject: Microsoft Versus Mozilla And The Rest
In-Reply-To: <617A51D2-5CB8-40B9-A830-FDDA58A8D256@mac-access.net>
References: <0D5307B6-025D-40C9-9AAD-1908020FFCFB@mac-access.net>
	<9A572496-BA70-49AA-82A2-8251F43FE485@internode.on.net>
	<617A51D2-5CB8-40B9-A830-FDDA58A8D256@mac-access.net>
Message-ID: <C106F51F-2AE5-4A13-A51F-088C5E43CB96@internode.on.net>

Okay I'll take this in order.

Yep, for a while Thunderbird worked with Window-Eyes but this hasn't always been the case, I forget what version of WE support for Thunderbird was added but it was only recently, something like We 7.0 refresher upgrade and now the support is as good as gone and you're right, GW Micro should be absolutely ashamed of themselves.

Standard access controls are available in Thunderbird for all Screen Reading software to take advantage of and thus all the Screen Reading packages I've tried - including JAWS yesterday - certainly do so God Only knows what the people at GW Micro think they're doing.

Yep, there's a App available on the GW Micro App Centre but as I understand it this app doesn't address the later problems and its more to do with reading status lines in Thunderbird wich again is a puzzle because the status lines are easily read at the bottom of the screen with the mouse pointer keys of WE, creating a user window and reading them that way etc.

As far as browsers go I tend to use both Firefox and I.E. 9, the latter gets used for most of the time.  It may be slower than Firefox however its certainly far more stable than Firefox is.

WE users have reported problems with Internet Explorer 9, I've not had any apart from the stupid Skype toolbar which was causing no end of problems with I.E., this is a known issue it would seem.

Forget about using Google Chrome with WE, its just not accessible however with NVDA it certainly is very accessible and extremely fast but not my favourite browser.


On 12/10/2011, at 9:43 AM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:

> Hello Dane and all
> 
> I'm lead to belief that they are actually MSAA controls which, They say, Window-Eyes and JFW and the rest of the bunch should pick up without a problem. But based on what we saw when testing with the then latest version of Thunderbird and the then latest version of Window-Eyes, there where some pretty horrendous issues.
> 
> I'm told also now that there is what GW now calls an "App" on their website that you can use to use Window-Eyes and Thunderbird get along together.
> 
> But really; you shouldn't have to muck around with scripting and apps just to make a strait forward piece of software wok; and I think GW Micro should be ashamed of themselves.
> 
> Possibly they've hard fix the problem, just as they appear to have hard-broken it. Thunderbird used to work so I am told.
> 
> On the same sort of subject I wonder which is the best browser to use these days; Internet Explorer version 9.0, FireFox version 6.0 or even Google Chrome?
> 
> I am hearing good things about Google Chrome but then again, the very name of Google gives me the shivers. I know what their mail service is like.
> 
> The description of "Windows" is perfectly correct, they are Windows.
> 
> Lynne
> 
> 
> On 11 Oct 2011, at 15:31, Dane Trethowan wrote:
> 
> ? Yep, Thunderbird is an absolute pain in the behind to use with Window-Eyes, I use NVDA as my Screen Reading solution of choice these days and Thunderbird has done and probably always will work very well with NVDA and why shouldn't it as Thunderbird uses standard controls which any Screen Reading solution should be able to access thus its a bit of a blot on the part of GW Micro that WE has trouble.
> 
> 
> ? I'm not saying that NVDA is totally unusable with WE, there are a few things one can do but most users would be extremely annoyed in a few seconds <smile>.
> 
> ? Interface is perfectly simple, you toggle between panes of Thunderbird with the f6 key, for example if you set Thunderbird to start displaying the "In Box", pressing f6 brings up the tree view of mailboxes, pressing it again brings up the table of messages associated with the particular mailbox you have selected, pressing f6 again brings up any other window you have open and so on through the cycle.
> 
> ? You can also use tab to move about.
> 
> Remember that Thunderbird is extremely configurable when it comes to windows and tabs so you could for example configure everything to open in one window which I don't personally recommend or you could configure everything to open in separate windows, for example 1 window with an open message, another Window with the contents of a mailbox displaying and so on.
> 
> Perhaps "Windows" is a bit of a miss leading description here because you use alt-Tab to toggle between them like applications if you will.
> 
> 
> On 12/10/2011, at 12:48 AM, Gordon Smith wrote:
> 
>> Hi all
>> 
>> This is something which I personally have my own thoughts on but I wanted to see what other people in the group think before I make a decision.  It's possible that I'm overlooking something.
>> 
>> We want a reliable, easy-to-use email and messaging solution for our NetBook.  We're hoping that we'll be able to use this portably as well as here at home.  So, here we go.
>> 
>> We are looking for an easy-to-use and configure, reliable suite of programmes for use under Windows 7 for E-Mail and messaging 
>> w
>> We are not afraid of buying if that's what it takes.  But I'm way off when it comes to Windows applications.
>> 
>> I have looked at the spec of Outlook 2010, but I haven't bought yet because I don't know how accessible or otherwise it is.  I have tried Thunderbird from Mozilla, but to be totally honest, when I tied it I wasn't all that taken with the interface.  It could be Window-Eyes;  but I didn't find Thunderbird particularly nice to use.
>> 
>> I'm not averse t the concept of ditching Window-Eyes completely, and switching to either NVDA or Thunder, both of which are distributed as part of the Acapela InfoVox InKey USB which we now have in our collection of accessibility tools.
>> 
>> Newsgroups are something which doesn't really interest me and Facebook isn't my kind of thing either judging by what I've heard of it.  Twitter is becoming quite boring to be honest.  So, much as I dislike Outlook Expres and Windows Mail, I can only see two possibilities at the moment.  It would seem to be a choice of either getting used to the interface of Thunderbird, or else buying Outlook 2010 which would set us back 120 Pounds.  Not really something I wanted to do.
>> 
>> Thoughts and opinions welcome.
>> 
>> Gordon
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> =======================================
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From express_able at yahoo.com  Wed Oct 12 01:23:18 2011
From: express_able at yahoo.com (Chris Johnson)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2011 18:23:18 -0600
Subject: Microsoft Products and substitutes for same- Daisy publishing free
In-Reply-To: <3DCC53E2-E287-46FC-ADAF-AB75CBA454E9@mac-access.net>
References: <D93A3AE7-C3A0-49E6-8FA7-449C98FF7746@mac-access.net>	<4E91CEB2.6030906@techno-chat.net>
	<A8CA2FE9-7875-43FB-B909-87C54204E555@mac-access.net>
	<15942E02-F0E6-4869-BC76-0892E4A85BF0@internode.on.net>
	<82F72DEC-23B6-459E-821B-0CC6F9C22697@mac-access.net>
	<763E8E7B-879B-4DAA-A97D-10383392C965@internode.on.net>
	<8FDB1669-4FF7-4697-B6F4-44C15C0BC694@mac-access.net>
	<4E92345E.1010406@internode.on.net>
	<8C90C546-6460-42E0-B148-017A3933E985@mac-access.net>
	<4E923BC7.5090401@internode.on.net>
	<EDF5FBB3-5B87-4980-A8D2-BAB05A9448AD@mac-access.net>
	<A7385436-81BD-4F2A-A7FA-0B1117A298C6@gmail.com>
	<01F5D748-7325-49E6-8000-4136E8A54B18@mac-access.net>
	<00B818B9-1191-4906-BC37-207EE027F2D7@gmail.com>
	<AF1CF7F5-F3F0-42C2-80CE-CA7EB44F8F58@mac-access.net>
	<8B606CA4-C1AB-4B34-9A71-C845E01D871A@btinternet.com>
	<24A5785A-52C7-4F31-8042-8E4806124ABF@mac-access.net>
	<4E946434.2070203@yahoo.com>
	<3DCC53E2-E287-46FC-ADAF-AB75CBA454E9@mac-access.net>
Message-ID: <4E94DDF6.90606@yahoo.com>

Actually, Open Office will do, as well as MS Office 2007 or 2010.
So Daisy can be produced for free on a Windows machine with this process.

I've tried this, without a screenreader, earlier this year.   I'd like 
to hear some feedback on successes, or failures, anyone else has had 
with it.

Cheers,

Chris Johnson,
AT Specialist
On 10/11/11 5:01 PM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:
> Hello Chris
>
> Sorry; I replied to your previous post before I saw this one.
>
> This is a very interesting concept. The only problem from our perspective is that it requires Office be installed by the looks of things.
>
> Lynne
>
> On 11 Oct 2011, at 16:43, Chris Johnson wrote:
>
> Sorry, wrong link.  Below is the link for the free Create and Convert system:
> <http://www.rsc-ne-scotland.ac.uk/eduapps/createconvert.php>http://eduapps.org/?page_id=10
> <http://eduapps.org/?page_id=10>
> Chris Johnson,
> A T Specialist,
> express ABLE
>
> On 10/10/11 3:25 AM, Gordon Smith wrote:
>> Hi David
>>
>> Unfortunately, you're not quite talking about the same thing here.  We're talking about a "Publisher", not a "Creator".  The two are very different concepts.
>>
>> A "Publisher" is a product which allows you to manipulate different types of material and create the layout of the DAISY content.  It is possible to create a DAISY book quite easily, but the free options you describe clearly have restrictions and aren't the same as a full-blown publisher.
>>
>> Thanks for the suggestions but actually we ourselves are not looking for a Windows-based solution.  Nor do I use JFW, thank goodness! :)
>>
>> As for the Word option, definitely not!  Again it isn't a publisher.  It is a creator.  The two concepts are very different.  We are simply not prepared to go that route and buy Office or any of its components.
>>
>> Gordon
>>
>>
>> On 10 Oct 2011, at 06:26, David Griffith wrote:
>>
>> I have only come into the thread late and this may not be the solution sought.
>>
>> Re Daisy Book audio book production.
>> There are easy free and powerful free options on the windows side. The one I use is the free daisy Book generator. This program works with any collection of mp3 files to convert them into a daisy book. .  There a few restrictions. The files must be named sequentially in the order in which they are to be played and the filenames must not include any spaces. I use at the excellent free bulk rename utility if this is an issue with files I am trying to convert into  daisy book. The program works in a command window but is accessible in Jaws. In essence all you have to do is collect your files into a folder, hit the application key whilst the folder is highlighted and then select daisy from the context  menu in explorer. Now press enter when daisy book generator starts up, and then press enter to exit the program. You can review the progress of the program with insert b but it is very quick at conversion. The folder will them be a daisy book.
>>
>> If you need a text based daisy option there is the daisy plugin for Microsoft word. Obviously you have to pay for word but I think the plugin is free. i never used this but did use the free daisy pipeline
>> option  which takes more setting up. Unfortunately I do not have access to the machine I set this up on so detailed advice on daisy pipeline will have to come from a current user.
>>
>>
>> =======================================
>>
>> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free
>>
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>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat
>>
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>>
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>>
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>> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
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>>
> =======================================
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>
> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
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>
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>


From gordon at mac-access.net  Wed Oct 12 11:10:57 2011
From: gordon at mac-access.net (Gordon Smith)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2011 11:10:57 +0100
Subject: Microsoft Products and substitutes for same- Daisy publishing free
In-Reply-To: <4E94DDF6.90606@yahoo.com>
References: <D93A3AE7-C3A0-49E6-8FA7-449C98FF7746@mac-access.net>	<4E91CEB2.6030906@techno-chat.net>
	<A8CA2FE9-7875-43FB-B909-87C54204E555@mac-access.net>
	<15942E02-F0E6-4869-BC76-0892E4A85BF0@internode.on.net>
	<82F72DEC-23B6-459E-821B-0CC6F9C22697@mac-access.net>
	<763E8E7B-879B-4DAA-A97D-10383392C965@internode.on.net>
	<8FDB1669-4FF7-4697-B6F4-44C15C0BC694@mac-access.net>
	<4E92345E.1010406@internode.on.net>
	<8C90C546-6460-42E0-B148-017A3933E985@mac-access.net>
	<4E923BC7.5090401@internode.on.net>
	<EDF5FBB3-5B87-4980-A8D2-BAB05A9448AD@mac-access.net>
	<A7385436-81BD-4F2A-A7FA-0B1117A298C6@gmail.com>
	<01F5D748-7325-49E6-8000-4136E8A54B18@mac-access.net>
	<00B818B9-1191-4906-BC37-207EE027F2D7@gmail.com>
	<AF1CF7F5-F3F0-42C2-80CE-CA7EB44F8F58@mac-access.net>
	<8B606CA4-C1AB-4B34-9A71-C845E01D871A@btinternet.com>
	<24A5785A-52C7-4F31-8042-8E4806124ABF@mac-access.net>
	<4E946434.2070203@yahoo.com>
	<3DCC53E2-E287-46FC-ADAF-AB75CBA454E9@mac-access.net>
	<4E94DDF6.90606@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <55D45B23-6106-421D-8A7B-B0642D44F6EB@mac-access.net>

Hello Chris

Unfortunately in our case it isn't going to happen. We're not prepared to buy Office and Open Office is a definite no-no for us.  Thank you for the suggestions but I guess we'll stick with what we have.

We'd very much like to be able to produce Braille and DAISY properly on OSX  It's also worth pointing out here that there is an huge difference between the creation and the production of DAISY content.  Properly produced content can be a pleasure to use.  And that seems to be what's lacking in most of the programmes we have tried.

Gordon



On 12 Oct 2011, at 01:23, Chris Johnson wrote:

Actually, Open Office will do, as well as MS Office 2007 or 2010.
So Daisy can be produced for free on a Windows machine with this process.

I've tried this, without a screenreader, earlier this year.   I'd like to hear some feedback on successes, or failures, anyone else has had with it.

Cheers,

Chris Johnson,
AT Specialist
On 10/11/11 5:01 PM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:
> Hello Chris
> 
> Sorry; I replied to your previous post before I saw this one.
> 
> This is a very interesting concept. The only problem from our perspective is that it requires Office be installed by the looks of things.
> 
> Lynne
> 
> On 11 Oct 2011, at 16:43, Chris Johnson wrote:
> 
> Sorry, wrong link.  Below is the link for the free Create and Convert system:
> <http://www.rsc-ne-scotland.ac.uk/eduapps/createconvert.php>http://eduapps.org/?page_id=10
> <http://eduapps.org/?page_id=10>
> Chris Johnson,
> A T Specialist,
> express ABLE
> 
> On 10/10/11 3:25 AM, Gordon Smith wrote:
>> Hi David
>> 
>> Unfortunately, you're not quite talking about the same thing here.  We're talking about a "Publisher", not a "Creator".  The two are very different concepts.
>> 
>> A "Publisher" is a product which allows you to manipulate different types of material and create the layout of the DAISY content.  It is possible to create a DAISY book quite easily, but the free options you describe clearly have restrictions and aren't the same as a full-blown publisher.
>> 
>> Thanks for the suggestions but actually we ourselves are not looking for a Windows-based solution.  Nor do I use JFW, thank goodness! :)
>> 
>> As for the Word option, definitely not!  Again it isn't a publisher.  It is a creator.  The two concepts are very different.  We are simply not prepared to go that route and buy Office or any of its components.
>> 
>> Gordon
>> 
>> 
>> On 10 Oct 2011, at 06:26, David Griffith wrote:
>> 
>> I have only come into the thread late and this may not be the solution sought.
>> 
>> Re Daisy Book audio book production.
>> There are easy free and powerful free options on the windows side. The one I use is the free daisy Book generator. This program works with any collection of mp3 files to convert them into a daisy book. .  There a few restrictions. The files must be named sequentially in the order in which they are to be played and the filenames must not include any spaces. I use at the excellent free bulk rename utility if this is an issue with files I am trying to convert into  daisy book. The program works in a command window but is accessible in Jaws. In essence all you have to do is collect your files into a folder, hit the application key whilst the folder is highlighted and then select daisy from the context  menu in explorer. Now press enter when daisy book generator starts up, and then press enter to exit the program. You can review the progress of the program with insert b but it is very quick at conversion. The folder will them be a daisy book.
>> 
>> If you need a text based daisy option there is the daisy plugin for Microsoft word. Obviously you have to pay for word but I think the plugin is free. i never used this but did use the free daisy pipeline
>> option  which takes more setting up. Unfortunately I do not have access to the machine I set this up on so detailed advice on daisy pipeline will have to come from a current user.
>> 
>> 
>> =======================================
>> 
>> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free
>> 
>> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat
>> 
>> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites:
>> 
>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html
>> 
>> Or:
>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat at techno-chat.net>
>> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat at techno-chat.net/maillist.xml>
>> 
>> ---------------------------------------
>> 
> =======================================
> 
> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free
> 
> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat
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> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites:
> 
> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html
> 
> Or:
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> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
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> 
> =======================================
> 
> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free
> 
> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
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> 
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> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
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---------------------------------------


From lynne at mac-access.net  Wed Oct 12 21:25:40 2011
From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2011 21:25:40 +0100
Subject: NVDA; Latest Stable Version
Message-ID: <694EEB74-DF5D-4D73-B7A1-6568328140EA@mac-access.net>

Hello everybody

Anybody happen to know which is the latest stable version of NVDA? Now, I think I had better clarify this because I have seen the term "Stable Version" used for the official release of an app.

By "Stable version", I mean the last version which works well and doesn't keep crashing. I'm including beta versions here, if there are any.

My reason for asking is that I don't think the version on our InKey is the latest and I want to uninstall the version we have or at the very least change it's voice because currently it sounds horrible.

I welcome any tips on this and also anybody who can tell me how to change the voice. Gordon is a bit off the ball today, having had a lot of pain and stuff with which I won't bore the group. But we are coming around to the conclusion that NVDA might be an overall better solution than Window-Eyes v7.51.

Thanks for any information you can give.

Lynne


From chris.hallsworth at techno-chat.net  Wed Oct 12 21:31:02 2011
From: chris.hallsworth at techno-chat.net (chris hallsworth)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2011 21:31:02 +0100
Subject: NVDA; Latest Stable Version
In-Reply-To: <694EEB74-DF5D-4D73-B7A1-6568328140EA@mac-access.net>
References: <694EEB74-DF5D-4D73-B7A1-6568328140EA@mac-access.net>
Message-ID: <4E95F906.3070706@techno-chat.net>

2011.2 is working very well for me.

On 12/10/2011 21:25, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:
> Hello everybody
>
> Anybody happen to know which is the latest stable version of NVDA? Now, I think I had better clarify this because I have seen the term "Stable Version" used for the official release of an app.
>
> By "Stable version", I mean the last version which works well and doesn't keep crashing. I'm including beta versions here, if there are any.
>
> My reason for asking is that I don't think the version on our InKey is the latest and I want to uninstall the version we have or at the very least change it's voice because currently it sounds horrible.
>
> I welcome any tips on this and also anybody who can tell me how to change the voice. Gordon is a bit off the ball today, having had a lot of pain and stuff with which I won't bore the group. But we are coming around to the conclusion that NVDA might be an overall better solution than Window-Eyes v7.51.
>
> Thanks for any information you can give.
>
> Lynne
>
>
> =======================================
>
> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free
>
> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat
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>
> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html
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> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
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From grtdane at internode.on.net  Wed Oct 12 21:31:55 2011
From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2011 07:31:55 +1100
Subject: NVDA; Latest Stable Version
In-Reply-To: <694EEB74-DF5D-4D73-B7A1-6568328140EA@mac-access.net>
References: <694EEB74-DF5D-4D73-B7A1-6568328140EA@mac-access.net>
Message-ID: <226C388A-C817-437C-8B0B-CB85171B56BF@internode.on.net>

On the web site in the downloads section the stable release is clearly identified.


On 13/10/2011, at 7:25 AM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:

> Hello everybody
> 
> Anybody happen to know which is the latest stable version of NVDA? Now, I think I had better clarify this because I have seen the term "Stable Version" used for the official release of an app.
> 
> By "Stable version", I mean the last version which works well and doesn't keep crashing. I'm including beta versions here, if there are any.
> 
> My reason for asking is that I don't think the version on our InKey is the latest and I want to uninstall the version we have or at the very least change it's voice because currently it sounds horrible.
> 
> I welcome any tips on this and also anybody who can tell me how to change the voice. Gordon is a bit off the ball today, having had a lot of pain and stuff with which I won't bore the group. But we are coming around to the conclusion that NVDA might be an overall better solution than Window-Eyes v7.51.
> 
> Thanks for any information you can give.
> 
> Lynne
> 
> 
> =======================================
> 
> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free
> 
> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
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> 
> ---------------------------------------


From lynne at mac-access.net  Wed Oct 12 21:46:51 2011
From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2011 21:46:51 +0100
Subject: NVDA; Latest Stable Version
In-Reply-To: <4E95F906.3070706@techno-chat.net>
References: <694EEB74-DF5D-4D73-B7A1-6568328140EA@mac-access.net>
	<4E95F906.3070706@techno-chat.net>
Message-ID: <67A854D3-F7E9-45D2-8F7C-AD194DDB9812@mac-access.net>

Hello Chris

On 12 Oct 2011, at 21:31, chris hallsworth wrote:

2011.2 is working very well for me.

Thank you for this.

Lynne


From lynne at mac-access.net  Wed Oct 12 21:47:33 2011
From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2011 21:47:33 +0100
Subject: NVDA; Latest Stable Version
In-Reply-To: <226C388A-C817-437C-8B0B-CB85171B56BF@internode.on.net>
References: <694EEB74-DF5D-4D73-B7A1-6568328140EA@mac-access.net>
	<226C388A-C817-437C-8B0B-CB85171B56BF@internode.on.net>
Message-ID: <20E6A1DF-37B8-455C-8378-546131281C1C@mac-access.net>

Dane
\
You obviously didn't read my message.


On 12 Oct 2011, at 21:31, Dane Trethowan wrote:

On the web site in the downloads section the stable release is clearly identified.


On 13/10/2011, at 7:25 AM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:

> Hello everybody
> 
> Anybody happen to know which is the latest stable version of NVDA? Now, I think I had better clarify this because I have seen the term "Stable Version" used for the official release of an app.
> 
> By "Stable version", I mean the last version which works well and doesn't keep crashing. I'm including beta versions here, if there are any.
> 
> My reason for asking is that I don't think the version on our InKey is the latest and I want to uninstall the version we have or at the very least change it's voice because currently it sounds horrible.
> 
> I welcome any tips on this and also anybody who can tell me how to change the voice. Gordon is a bit off the ball today, having had a lot of pain and stuff with which I won't bore the group. But we are coming around to the conclusion that NVDA might be an overall better solution than Window-Eyes v7.51.
> 
> Thanks for any information you can give.
> 
> Lynne
> 
> 
> =======================================
> 
> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free
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From gordon at mac-access.net  Thu Oct 13 13:53:22 2011
From: gordon at mac-access.net (Gordon Smith)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2011 13:53:22 +0100
Subject: NVDA Query
Message-ID: <92EA4CFD-B29E-4669-A589-9D49EC058B61@mac-access.net>

Hi all

OK, it's crunch time I think. So I wonder if anybody can answer me a couple of questions regarding NVDA.

I am trying not to draw comparisons between NVDA and Window-Eyes in term of how they work because I don't think that would be helpful. The thing I need to know is how, for instance, does one go about accessing the NVDA control panel where you set up all of NVDA's options?  What is the default NVDA modifier key used to move the equivalent of the We cursor?

I neither expect nor want anybody to go in to detail.  But to be utterly honest I'm becoming more and more disillusioned with Window-Eues each time I use it.  It seems to me that GW Micro has gone too far down what I will call the FS road.  Som, if anybody who is an experienced NVDA user feels like giving me a hand off list with NVDA that would be appreciated.

I am hoping there might come a time soon when I can ditch WE totally.  I have absolutely no interested whatsoever in JFW, and as I said, WE is very much like JFW now in some respects.

Gordon



From moore.c at blueyonder.co.uk  Thu Oct 13 14:39:27 2011
From: moore.c at blueyonder.co.uk (Chris Moore)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2011 14:39:27 +0100
Subject: NVDA Query
In-Reply-To: <92EA4CFD-B29E-4669-A589-9D49EC058B61@mac-access.net>
References: <92EA4CFD-B29E-4669-A589-9D49EC058B61@mac-access.net>
Message-ID: <EE07EEA1-1903-4FDB-99F3-007B5F0B8C51@blueyonder.co.uk>

Gordon,

Just thought I would chime in here.  I am trying to catch up on everything after getting back from 2 weeks away overseas.

I think you will find these podcasts informative and exactly what you are looking for:
http://www.blindtechsupport.net/podcasts/sr/nvda/

Chris 
On 13 Oct 2011, at 13:53, Gordon Smith wrote:

> Hi all
> 
> OK, it's crunch time I think. So I wonder if anybody can answer me a couple of questions regarding NVDA.
> 
> I am trying not to draw comparisons between NVDA and Window-Eyes in term of how they work because I don't think that would be helpful. The thing I need to know is how, for instance, does one go about accessing the NVDA control panel where you set up all of NVDA's options?  What is the default NVDA modifier key used to move the equivalent of the We cursor?
> 
> I neither expect nor want anybody to go in to detail.  But to be utterly honest I'm becoming more and more disillusioned with Window-Eues each time I use it.  It seems to me that GW Micro has gone too far down what I will call the FS road.  Som, if anybody who is an experienced NVDA user feels like giving me a hand off list with NVDA that would be appreciated.
> 
> I am hoping there might come a time soon when I can ditch WE totally.  I have absolutely no interested whatsoever in JFW, and as I said, WE is very much like JFW now in some respects.
> 
> Gordon
> 
> 
> 
> =======================================
> 
> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free
> 
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From gordon at mac-access.net  Thu Oct 13 16:47:43 2011
From: gordon at mac-access.net (Gordon Smith)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2011 16:47:43 +0100
Subject: NVDA Query
In-Reply-To: <EE07EEA1-1903-4FDB-99F3-007B5F0B8C51@blueyonder.co.uk>
References: <92EA4CFD-B29E-4669-A589-9D49EC058B61@mac-access.net>
	<EE07EEA1-1903-4FDB-99F3-007B5F0B8C51@blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <198DD6C3-5876-47A5-B07F-43A620AC7756@mac-access.net>

Hi Chris

Thanks.  When I get the opportunity I'll have a listen.  Currently I have a lot going on so I just need to be productive as possible.

Thanks again.

Gordon


From grtdane at internode.on.net  Fri Oct 14 14:35:29 2011
From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2011 00:35:29 +1100
Subject: Bluetooth Keyboards with the EEEPC Netbook
Message-ID: <4E983AA1.2010705@internode.on.net>

Hi!

I was given a Bluetooth keyboard yesterday and I've started using it 
with the EEEPC and things went better than expected.

Connecting the keyboard to the computer was a snap, just a case of 
selecting the "Bluetooth" icon in the system tree, right clicking and 
selecting "Add Device", then pressing a button on the back of the 
keyboard, waiting for the Netbook to find it and following the wizard.

I'm surprised at the lack of delay between keyboard and computer, when 
I'd tried bluetooth with another keyboard on another computer quite some 
time ago the delay had been more than a quarter of a second which could 
be a little irritating at times but the delay between EEEPC Netbook and 
keyboard now is less than a tenth of a second, a huge difference and 
barely noticed.

Now comes the tricky part, this keyboard resembles an Apple Bluetooth 
keyboard thus it doesn't haave a number pad, an insert or a delete key.

I use NVDA here as my Screen Reader so it was easy enough to modify the 
NVDA key from an isnert to the Cap Lock key though I had to play around 
in the start-up section of the registry to disable the Capsbook utility 
that Asus use for reasons not known to me <smile>.

The next problem I'm having is working out just what key combination to 
use for a "Delete" key simulation, does anyone have any ideas? I've 
tried holding the FN key down with the Backspace key but this 
combination of keys doesn't appear to do anything.

Instruction manual is next to useless, it just tells you how to "Pair" 
the keyboard.

If anyone can help then it would be very much appreciated.


-- 
Dane Trethowan
Sending email from his EEEPC Netbook


From lynne at mac-access.net  Sat Oct 15 11:43:15 2011
From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2011 11:43:15 +0100
Subject: Bluetooth Dongle Required
Message-ID: <0E146DD8-EEE6-4EBF-A4F5-D1B288183A1A@mac-access.net>

Hello; and a very good Saturday everybody

We, that is to say Gordon and I, are the owners of an Asus EEePC NetBook which does not have Bluetooth as a standard feature; much to our disappointment. I confess that, had I known at the time of purchase that Bluetooth was absent from the machine, I wouldn't have bought this particular model. In fact, to be honest, in some ways I'm regretting buying an Asus machine at all; as there are apparently better alternatives out there for the price I paid for the machine. In fact, I could, and should, have gone for something like an HP machine which has an I7 processor which I've seen in the same shop for just a little bit more money since I bought this machine. Overall it was a mistake because performance-wise and hardware specification-wise, it's really quite poor.

Be that as it may, the deed is done; and so it's a case of living with it now.

So, what I'd like to know is can anybody recommend a particular type of Microsoft compatible Bluetooth dongle that would work without the need to install obscure drivers and software such as that "Bluesoleil" or whatever it's called? We used to have a dongle like that for use with our old desktops and they were, not to put too fine a point on it, junk!

Another option we're considering is selling this NetBook to my sister-in-law, and going for a totally brand new machine. In which case, does anybody have any recommendations/suggestions? it doesn't have to be a NetBook, we'd consider a reasonably priced NoteBook if we can find one with a decent specification. I'm not much interested in Acer, and given what I've seen of them performance-wise, I doubt very much I'd consider another Asus. One thing I really don't like about this machine is the fact that it won't let you go above 2GB of memory. yet, it's sold with Windows 7 pre-installed. Seems to me that 2GB is really not sufficient to run Windows 7 Ultimate, and we did perform that upgrade. The machine was supplied with a mere 1GB of RAM installed and Windows 7 Starter edition pre-installed. Pretty pathetic actually, given the recommendations of the software and hardware manufacturers themselves.

Thanks.

Lynne


From grtdane at internode.on.net  Sat Oct 15 12:07:14 2011
From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2011 22:07:14 +1100
Subject: Bluetooth Dongle, EEEPC and HP 
In-Reply-To: <0E146DD8-EEE6-4EBF-A4F5-D1B288183A1A@mac-access.net>
References: <0E146DD8-EEE6-4EBF-A4F5-D1B288183A1A@mac-access.net>
Message-ID: <2E8156FD-C611-4D94-A0A0-ADC60CDFA664@internode.on.net>

My bluetooth keyboard actually came with one even though I don't need it, I've tried it with other devices and it seems to work.

As for "Regretting" the purchase of an EEEPC? Well a couple of things here.

Perhaps its just my attitude or something in the local water supply but I'm one of those people who don't regret any of my actions whether its buying something I couldn't use the way I thought or one of life's experiences, we can all learn from what we do thus if we learn then what is their to regret? Perhaps a discussion for another list <smile> but really if anything is to come out of such a scenario as you've painted then its not to copy whatever anyone else is doing or buying, everyone has different needs.

Thankfully when I purchased my EEEPC Netbook I had quite a few people I could talk to who did indeed help me make the decision on what to buy, in fat we had quite a discussion about the topic on Twitter and we helped each other research the best and cheapest model around at the time but as I said my needs are different than everyone's as everyone's needs are different than mine.

My EEEPC model does have Bluetooth, something I'm particularly thankful for but it didn't have the faster Wireless protocol and only came standard with 1GB of memory.

Thankfully both these problems were easily fixed, my local Computer shop - which also happened to be an Asus service agent - upgraded the memory and they were able to swap the internal wireless device for a faster one, some people told me it could be done whilst others told me it couldn't.

My Asus is not used as a full-blown computer as I use it as a bedside machine you might say to read and respond to email, manage my media library, read books, listen to Internet radio and so it goes on.

I also bought a HP that you referred to though this wasn't a Netbook, I had been advised against buying HP Netbook products by those it seems who know more about Netbooks than I do.

The HP I have is a full Laptop machine, I think they call them Entertainment PC'S or something similar, only problem with that machine is the battery life is nowhere near as good as that of the EEEPC, I'm also informed that battery life has improved a lot in the very latest replacement models.

Also note that HP is "Getting Out" of the PC business so what affect this will have I don't quite know, I only bought my HP as I was made an offer I couldn't refuse at the time regarding price and a full mobile multi media solution was what I had been looking for though I didn't want to spend too much money on it, I can send specs of both my EEEPC and HP I7 machines to anyone if they're interested, the HP is more powerful than any desktop system I've ever owned <smile>.


On 15/10/2011, at 9:43 PM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:

> Hello; and a very good Saturday everybody
> 
> We, that is to say Gordon and I, are the owners of an Asus EEePC NetBook which does not have Bluetooth as a standard feature; much to our disappointment. I confess that, had I known at the time of purchase that Bluetooth was absent from the machine, I wouldn't have bought this particular model. In fact, to be honest, in some ways I'm regretting buying an Asus machine at all; as there are apparently better alternatives out there for the price I paid for the machine. In fact, I could, and should, have gone for something like an HP machine which has an I7 processor which I've seen in the same shop for just a little bit more money since I bought this machine. Overall it was a mistake because performance-wise and hardware specification-wise, it's really quite poor.
> 
> Be that as it may, the deed is done; and so it's a case of living with it now.
> 
> So, what I'd like to know is can anybody recommend a particular type of Microsoft compatible Bluetooth dongle that would work without the need to install obscure drivers and software such as that "Bluesoleil" or whatever it's called? We used to have a dongle like that for use with our old desktops and they were, not to put too fine a point on it, junk!
> 
> Another option we're considering is selling this NetBook to my sister-in-law, and going for a totally brand new machine. In which case, does anybody have any recommendations/suggestions? it doesn't have to be a NetBook, we'd consider a reasonably priced NoteBook if we can find one with a decent specification. I'm not much interested in Acer, and given what I've seen of them performance-wise, I doubt very much I'd consider another Asus. One thing I really don't like about this machine is the fact that it won't let you go above 2GB of memory. yet, it's sold with Windows 7 pre-installed. Seems to me that 2GB is really not sufficient to run Windows 7 Ultimate, and we did perform that upgrade. The machine was supplied with a mere 1GB of RAM installed and Windows 7 Starter edition pre-installed. Pretty pathetic actually, given the recommendations of the software and hardware manufacturers themselves.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Lynne
> 
> 
> =======================================
> 
> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free
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> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
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From lynne at mac-access.net  Sat Oct 15 19:38:24 2011
From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2011 19:38:24 +0100
Subject: Audio Playing under Windows
Message-ID: <0CA83EB7-55E4-4481-B9E3-FDA84B719C67@mac-access.net>

Hello everybody

I'm interested in what people are using these days as audio players under Microsoft Windows. The utility I had in mind was WinAmp, as we have a registered licence for the Pro version. But we're neither of us sure as to whether Winamp can handle, for instance, audiobooks which contain bookmarks and chapter markers. Does anybody have any info on that and, if it doesn't, what about iTunes 10.5 for Windows for instance, running under Windows 7 Ultimate?

I have heard , rightly or wrongly, that Windows Media Player doesn't have accessibility for those functions; is that correct?

Lynne



From grtdane at internode.on.net  Sat Oct 15 19:51:37 2011
From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane trethowan)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2011 05:51:37 +1100
Subject: Audio Playing under Windows
In-Reply-To: <0CA83EB7-55E4-4481-B9E3-FDA84B719C67@mac-access.net>
References: <0CA83EB7-55E4-4481-B9E3-FDA84B719C67@mac-access.net>
Message-ID: <4E99D639.7000707@internode.on.net>

I'm no authority on winamp though I'm told that it handles bookmarks and 
the like with Audio and Audible books, not tried it myself.

Another alternative you may wish to look at is VLC, its the most 
customisable media player on the planet and does handle audio book marks.

I'm a registered Winamp user myself, the cost was perfectly reasonable 
and worth every cent however Wiamp does have it seems problems when 
playing some media, when playing video MPG for example, all you get is a 
still picture for some reason, Windows Media and VLC plays them without 
a hitch.

The app for Winamp and Window-eyes is very well written and incrdibly 
versatile though I prefer to use ?Winamp without it and I get enough 
feedback on what Winamp is doing for my liking with NVDA.



On 16/10/2011 5:38 AM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:
> Hello everybody
>
> I'm interested in what people are using these days as audio players under Microsoft Windows. The utility I had in mind was WinAmp, as we have a registered licence for the Pro version. But we're neither of us sure as to whether Winamp can handle, for instance, audiobooks which contain bookmarks and chapter markers. Does anybody have any info on that and, if it doesn't, what about iTunes 10.5 for Windows for instance, running under Windows 7 Ultimate?
>
> I have heard , rightly or wrongly, that Windows Media Player doesn't have accessibility for those functions; is that correct?
>
> Lynne
>
>
>
> =======================================
>
> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free
>
> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
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-- 
sent from my HP Powerhouse Notebook.



From grtdane at internode.on.net  Sat Oct 15 20:17:21 2011
From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane trethowan)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2011 06:17:21 +1100
Subject: Audio Playing under Windows
In-Reply-To: <0CA83EB7-55E4-4481-B9E3-FDA84B719C67@mac-access.net>
References: <0CA83EB7-55E4-4481-B9E3-FDA84B719C67@mac-access.net>
Message-ID: <4E99DC41.2050904@internode.on.net>

Just been giving this message some extra thought and I wonder why you're 
asking this question, I mean aren't you a great fan of Itunes? If so 
then why not just solve yourself a whole heap of problems and use that.



On 16/10/2011 5:38 AM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:
> Hello everybody
>
> I'm interested in what people are using these days as audio players under Microsoft Windows. The utility I had in mind was WinAmp, as we have a registered licence for the Pro version. But we're neither of us sure as to whether Winamp can handle, for instance, audiobooks which contain bookmarks and chapter markers. Does anybody have any info on that and, if it doesn't, what about iTunes 10.5 for Windows for instance, running under Windows 7 Ultimate?
>
> I have heard , rightly or wrongly, that Windows Media Player doesn't have accessibility for those functions; is that correct?
>
> Lynne
>
>
>
> =======================================
>
> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free
>
> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat
>
> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites:
>
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> ---------------------------------------

-- 
sent from my HP Powerhouse Notebook.



From lynne at mac-access.net  Sat Oct 15 21:28:36 2011
From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2011 21:28:36 +0100
Subject: Bluetooth Dongle, EEEPC and HP 
In-Reply-To: <2E8156FD-C611-4D94-A0A0-ADC60CDFA664@internode.on.net>
References: <0E146DD8-EEE6-4EBF-A4F5-D1B288183A1A@mac-access.net>
	<2E8156FD-C611-4D94-A0A0-ADC60CDFA664@internode.on.net>
Message-ID: <926E42E8-6C07-49E8-954D-DFA4395D0FCB@mac-access.net>

Hello Dane

Just let me get one thing *** absolutely *** strain right here and right now!  I did not, I replete, not, buy this machine to "copy', "emulate" or anything else the actions that you took. If that's the impression you have of me then you are wildly mistaken.

I bought a totally different model to you; in actual fact I had been in the market for a similar machine long before you uttered a single word to me about yours. So please get that idea right out of your head.

What you do and say has no baring on what I/we decide to do or not to do. Where you are correct is that I listened to advice, and of that advice yours was only one very small voice. I was, for instance, advised not to buy the Intel core machine that you have. I duly took that advice because I wanted something a little more speedy. As it happens your machine was in the shop on the next shelf down and the salesman said that they weren't selling.

The only question I asked here is whether anybody had any recommendations regarding a bluetooth dongle. No need for any other philosophical advice, thank you.

I do regret buying this specific model because it doesn't have Bluetooth and that's the primary reason. But that was my own fault for presuming that it did have. But I'm definitely not going out of my way to emulate you or anybody else.

Lynne

On 15 Oct 2011, at 12:07, Dane Trethowan wrote:

My bluetooth keyboard actually came with one even though I don't need it, I've tried it with other devices and it seems to work.

As for "Regretting" the purchase of an EEEPC? Well a couple of things here.

Perhaps its just my attitude or something in the local water supply but I'm one of those people who don't regret any of my actions whether its buying something I couldn't use the way I thought or one of life's experiences, we can all learn from what we do thus if we learn then what is their to regret? Perhaps a discussion for another list <smile> but really if anything is to come out of such a scenario as you've painted then its not to copy whatever anyone else is doing or buying, everyone has different needs.

Thankfully when I purchased my EEEPC Netbook I had quite a few people I could talk to who did indeed help me make the decision on what to buy, in fat we had quite a discussion about the topic on Twitter and we helped each other research the best and cheapest model around at the time but as I said my needs are different than everyone's as everyone's needs are different than mine.

My EEEPC model does have Bluetooth, something I'm particularly thankful for but it didn't have the faster Wireless protocol and only came standard with 1GB of memory.

Thankfully both these problems were easily fixed, my local Computer shop - which also happened to be an Asus service agent - upgraded the memory and they were able to swap the internal wireless device for a faster one, some people told me it could be done whilst others told me it couldn't.

My Asus is not used as a full-blown computer as I use it as a bedside machine you might say to read and respond to email, manage my media library, read books, listen to Internet radio and so it goes on.

I also bought a HP that you referred to though this wasn't a Netbook, I had been advised against buying HP Netbook products by those it seems who know more about Netbooks than I do.

The HP I have is a full Laptop machine, I think they call them Entertainment PC'S or something similar, only problem with that machine is the battery life is nowhere near as good as that of the EEEPC, I'm also informed that battery life has improved a lot in the very latest replacement models.

Also note that HP is "Getting Out" of the PC business so what affect this will have I don't quite know, I only bought my HP as I was made an offer I couldn't refuse at the time regarding price and a full mobile multi media solution was what I had been looking for though I didn't want to spend too much money on it, I can send specs of both my EEEPC and HP I7 machines to anyone if they're interested, the HP is more powerful than any desktop system I've ever owned <smile>.


On 15/10/2011, at 9:43 PM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:

> Hello; and a very good Saturday everybody
> 
> We, that is to say Gordon and I, are the owners of an Asus EEePC NetBook which does not have Bluetooth as a standard feature; much to our disappointment. I confess that, had I known at the time of purchase that Bluetooth was absent from the machine, I wouldn't have bought this particular model. In fact, to be honest, in some ways I'm regretting buying an Asus machine at all; as there are apparently better alternatives out there for the price I paid for the machine. In fact, I could, and should, have gone for something like an HP machine which has an I7 processor which I've seen in the same shop for just a little bit more money since I bought this machine. Overall it was a mistake because performance-wise and hardware specification-wise, it's really quite poor.
> 
> Be that as it may, the deed is done; and so it's a case of living with it now.
> 
> So, what I'd like to know is can anybody recommend a particular type of Microsoft compatible Bluetooth dongle that would work without the need to install obscure drivers and software such as that "Bluesoleil" or whatever it's called? We used to have a dongle like that for use with our old desktops and they were, not to put too fine a point on it, junk!
> 
> Another option we're considering is selling this NetBook to my sister-in-law, and going for a totally brand new machine. In which case, does anybody have any recommendations/suggestions? it doesn't have to be a NetBook, we'd consider a reasonably priced NoteBook if we can find one with a decent specification. I'm not much interested in Acer, and given what I've seen of them performance-wise, I doubt very much I'd consider another Asus. One thing I really don't like about this machine is the fact that it won't let you go above 2GB of memory. yet, it's sold with Windows 7 pre-installed. Seems to me that 2GB is really not sufficient to run Windows 7 Ultimate, and we did perform that upgrade. The machine was supplied with a mere 1GB of RAM installed and Windows 7 Starter edition pre-installed. Pretty pathetic actually, given the recommendations of the software and hardware manufacturers themselves.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Lynne
> 
> 
> =======================================
> 
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From lynne at mac-access.net  Sat Oct 15 23:26:06 2011
From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2011 23:26:06 +0100
Subject: Audio Playing under Windows
In-Reply-To: <4E99D639.7000707@internode.on.net>
References: <0CA83EB7-55E4-4481-B9E3-FDA84B719C67@mac-access.net>
	<4E99D639.7000707@internode.on.net>
Message-ID: <FBF2BCE6-BD45-487D-A546-806EB803D996@mac-access.net>

Hello Dane & all

Video isn't an issue. We have no plans to play video content on the Windows configuration; hence my question was specifically related to audio. :)

I think we'll try Winamp; purely out of convenience. We have it here already and registered. All we're interested in is audio, we have other solutions for video.

Lynne

On 15 Oct 2011, at 19:51, Dane trethowan wrote:

I'm no authority on winamp though I'm told that it handles bookmarks and the like with Audio and Audible books, not tried it myself.


From lynne at mac-access.net  Sat Oct 15 23:28:48 2011
From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2011 23:28:48 +0100
Subject: Audio Playing under Windows
In-Reply-To: <4E99DC41.2050904@internode.on.net>
References: <0CA83EB7-55E4-4481-B9E3-FDA84B719C67@mac-access.net>
	<4E99DC41.2050904@internode.on.net>
Message-ID: <7A483B1A-5948-4DCF-919E-8DED9B2885A6@mac-access.net>

Hello Dane

I really don't know where you get that idea from. In actual fact, you couldn't be more wrong. We use iTunes on the Mac out of convenience, nothing more. On Window I have always found iTunes a pain in the place where the sun don't shine! I honestly don't recall ever proclaiming myself a huge fan of anything, except that which works hassle-free.

Lynne

On 15 Oct 2011, at 20:17, Dane trethowan wrote:

Just been giving this message some extra thought and I wonder why you're asking this question, I mean aren't you a great fan of Itunes? If so then why not just solve yourself a whole heap of problems and use that.



From grtdane at internode.on.net  Sat Oct 15 23:35:29 2011
From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2011 09:35:29 +1100
Subject: Audio Playing under Windows
In-Reply-To: <7A483B1A-5948-4DCF-919E-8DED9B2885A6@mac-access.net>
References: <0CA83EB7-55E4-4481-B9E3-FDA84B719C67@mac-access.net>
	<4E99DC41.2050904@internode.on.net>
	<7A483B1A-5948-4DCF-919E-8DED9B2885A6@mac-access.net>
Message-ID: <8AE5A1D7-DC73-4605-9813-70E2ED6E33EB@internode.on.net>

You've just told me that using Itunes is a big convenience for you so why not continue that convenience with Windows?


On 16/10/2011, at 9:28 AM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:

> Hello Dane
> 
> I really don't know where you get that idea from. In actual fact, you couldn't be more wrong. We use iTunes on the Mac out of convenience, nothing more. On Window I have always found iTunes a pain in the place where the sun don't shine! I honestly don't recall ever proclaiming myself a huge fan of anything, except that which works hassle-free.
> 
> Lynne
> 
> On 15 Oct 2011, at 20:17, Dane trethowan wrote:
> 
> Just been giving this message some extra thought and I wonder why you're asking this question, I mean aren't you a great fan of Itunes? If so then why not just solve yourself a whole heap of problems and use that.
> 
> 
> 
> =======================================
> 
> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free
> 
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From grtdane at internode.on.net  Sun Oct 16 11:10:56 2011
From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2011 21:10:56 +1100
Subject: CCrane Tuneable Twin Coil Antenna Podcast
Message-ID: <6D4C9514-90B5-49A4-A04F-DB5F976C4B49@internode.on.net>

This was supposed to have gone up onto Blind Cool Tech - Or Blind Fools Wreck if you prefer <smile> - but Larry must be asleep or something so I've decided to make it public so it may be enjoyed by those who are interested in such things.
Download from http://dl.dropbox.com/u/10565527/CCrane%20Tuneable%20Antenna.mp3

I'll leave it up until next Sunday.

Always interested in your feedback.



From lynne at mac-access.net  Sun Oct 16 12:09:35 2011
From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2011 12:09:35 +0100
Subject: Audio Playing under Windows
In-Reply-To: <8AE5A1D7-DC73-4605-9813-70E2ED6E33EB@internode.on.net>
References: <0CA83EB7-55E4-4481-B9E3-FDA84B719C67@mac-access.net>
	<4E99DC41.2050904@internode.on.net>
	<7A483B1A-5948-4DCF-919E-8DED9B2885A6@mac-access.net>
	<8AE5A1D7-DC73-4605-9813-70E2ED6E33EB@internode.on.net>
Message-ID: <A08C90F5-D0EC-4560-8BEC-D20482A295D0@mac-access.net>

Hello Dane

On 15 Oct 2011, at 23:35, Dane Trethowan wrote:

You've just told me that using Itunes is a big convenience for you so why not continue that convenience with Windows?

We use iTunes on the Mac, because it's convenient. Under Windows it's a very different matter.


On 16/10/2011, at 9:28 AM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:

> Hello Dane
> 
> I really don't know where you get that idea from. In actual fact, you couldn't be more wrong. We use iTunes on the Mac out of convenience, nothing more. On Window I have always found iTunes a pain in the place where the sun don't shine! I honestly don't recall ever proclaiming myself a huge fan of anything, except that which works hassle-free.
> 
> Lynne
> 
> On 15 Oct 2011, at 20:17, Dane trethowan wrote:
> 
> Just been giving this message some extra thought and I wonder why you're asking this question, I mean aren't you a great fan of Itunes? If so then why not just solve yourself a whole heap of problems and use that.
> 
> 
> 
> =======================================
> 
> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free
> 
> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
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> 
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> 
> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html
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From lynne at mac-access.net  Sun Oct 16 12:11:43 2011
From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2011 12:11:43 +0100
Subject: CCrane Tuneable Twin Coil Antenna Podcast
In-Reply-To: <6D4C9514-90B5-49A4-A04F-DB5F976C4B49@internode.on.net>
References: <6D4C9514-90B5-49A4-A04F-DB5F976C4B49@internode.on.net>
Message-ID: <8E32E5D0-3B1A-4C53-A0F2-B85EDBACD38C@mac-access.net>

If you want this put up with your other podcasts so that they're in the iTunes Store, let us know.

Lynne


On 16 Oct 2011, at 11:10, Dane Trethowan wrote:

This was supposed to have gone up onto Blind Cool Tech - Or Blind Fools Wreck if you prefer <smile> - but Larry must be asleep or something so I've decided to make it public so it may be enjoyed by those who are interested in such things.
Download from http://dl.dropbox.com/u/10565527/CCrane%20Tuneable%20Antenna.mp3

I'll leave it up until next Sunday.

Always interested in your feedback.



=======================================

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To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
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From moore.c at blueyonder.co.uk  Sun Oct 16 12:18:15 2011
From: moore.c at blueyonder.co.uk (Chris Moore)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2011 12:18:15 +0100
Subject: Bluetooth Dongle, EEEPC and HP 
In-Reply-To: <926E42E8-6C07-49E8-954D-DFA4395D0FCB@mac-access.net>
References: <0E146DD8-EEE6-4EBF-A4F5-D1B288183A1A@mac-access.net>
	<2E8156FD-C611-4D94-A0A0-ADC60CDFA664@internode.on.net>
	<926E42E8-6C07-49E8-954D-DFA4395D0FCB@mac-access.net>
Message-ID: <194F48A9-A72D-41EF-B9FF-FBDB42E495AD@blueyonder.co.uk>

Can you guys take this off list, some of us have busy inboxes and don't want to be bothered with personal spats. 


Thanks 
On 15 Oct 2011, at 21:28, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:

> Hello Dane
> 
> Just let me get one thing *** absolutely *** strain right here and right now!  I did not, I replete, not, buy this machine to "copy', "emulate" or anything else the actions that you took. If that's the impression you have of me then you are wildly mistaken.
> 
> I bought a totally different model to you; in actual fact I had been in the market for a similar machine long before you uttered a single word to me about yours. So please get that idea right out of your head.
> 
> What you do and say has no baring on what I/we decide to do or not to do. Where you are correct is that I listened to advice, and of that advice yours was only one very small voice. I was, for instance, advised not to buy the Intel core machine that you have. I duly took that advice because I wanted something a little more speedy. As it happens your machine was in the shop on the next shelf down and the salesman said that they weren't selling.
> 
> The only question I asked here is whether anybody had any recommendations regarding a bluetooth dongle. No need for any other philosophical advice, thank you.
> 
> I do regret buying this specific model because it doesn't have Bluetooth and that's the primary reason. But that was my own fault for presuming that it did have. But I'm definitely not going out of my way to emulate you or anybody else.
> 
> Lynne
> 
> On 15 Oct 2011, at 12:07, Dane Trethowan wrote:
> 
> My bluetooth keyboard actually came with one even though I don't need it, I've tried it with other devices and it seems to work.
> 
> As for "Regretting" the purchase of an EEEPC? Well a couple of things here.
> 
> Perhaps its just my attitude or something in the local water supply but I'm one of those people who don't regret any of my actions whether its buying something I couldn't use the way I thought or one of life's experiences, we can all learn from what we do thus if we learn then what is their to regret? Perhaps a discussion for another list <smile> but really if anything is to come out of such a scenario as you've painted then its not to copy whatever anyone else is doing or buying, everyone has different needs.
> 
> Thankfully when I purchased my EEEPC Netbook I had quite a few people I could talk to who did indeed help me make the decision on what to buy, in fat we had quite a discussion about the topic on Twitter and we helped each other research the best and cheapest model around at the time but as I said my needs are different than everyone's as everyone's needs are different than mine.
> 
> My EEEPC model does have Bluetooth, something I'm particularly thankful for but it didn't have the faster Wireless protocol and only came standard with 1GB of memory.
> 
> Thankfully both these problems were easily fixed, my local Computer shop - which also happened to be an Asus service agent - upgraded the memory and they were able to swap the internal wireless device for a faster one, some people told me it could be done whilst others told me it couldn't.
> 
> My Asus is not used as a full-blown computer as I use it as a bedside machine you might say to read and respond to email, manage my media library, read books, listen to Internet radio and so it goes on.
> 
> I also bought a HP that you referred to though this wasn't a Netbook, I had been advised against buying HP Netbook products by those it seems who know more about Netbooks than I do.
> 
> The HP I have is a full Laptop machine, I think they call them Entertainment PC'S or something similar, only problem with that machine is the battery life is nowhere near as good as that of the EEEPC, I'm also informed that battery life has improved a lot in the very latest replacement models.
> 
> Also note that HP is "Getting Out" of the PC business so what affect this will have I don't quite know, I only bought my HP as I was made an offer I couldn't refuse at the time regarding price and a full mobile multi media solution was what I had been looking for though I didn't want to spend too much money on it, I can send specs of both my EEEPC and HP I7 machines to anyone if they're interested, the HP is more powerful than any desktop system I've ever owned <smile>.
> 
> 
> On 15/10/2011, at 9:43 PM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:
> 
>> Hello; and a very good Saturday everybody
>> 
>> We, that is to say Gordon and I, are the owners of an Asus EEePC NetBook which does not have Bluetooth as a standard feature; much to our disappointment. I confess that, had I known at the time of purchase that Bluetooth was absent from the machine, I wouldn't have bought this particular model. In fact, to be honest, in some ways I'm regretting buying an Asus machine at all; as there are apparently better alternatives out there for the price I paid for the machine. In fact, I could, and should, have gone for something like an HP machine which has an I7 processor which I've seen in the same shop for just a little bit more money since I bought this machine. Overall it was a mistake because performance-wise and hardware specification-wise, it's really quite poor.
>> 
>> Be that as it may, the deed is done; and so it's a case of living with it now.
>> 
>> So, what I'd like to know is can anybody recommend a particular type of Microsoft compatible Bluetooth dongle that would work without the need to install obscure drivers and software such as that "Bluesoleil" or whatever it's called? We used to have a dongle like that for use with our old desktops and they were, not to put too fine a point on it, junk!
>> 
>> Another option we're considering is selling this NetBook to my sister-in-law, and going for a totally brand new machine. In which case, does anybody have any recommendations/suggestions? it doesn't have to be a NetBook, we'd consider a reasonably priced NoteBook if we can find one with a decent specification. I'm not much interested in Acer, and given what I've seen of them performance-wise, I doubt very much I'd consider another Asus. One thing I really don't like about this machine is the fact that it won't let you go above 2GB of memory. yet, it's sold with Windows 7 pre-installed. Seems to me that 2GB is really not sufficient to run Windows 7 Ultimate, and we did perform that upgrade. The machine was supplied with a mere 1GB of RAM installed and Windows 7 Starter edition pre-installed. Pretty pathetic actually, given the recommendations of the software and hardware manufacturers themselves.
>> 
>> Thanks.
>> 
>> Lynne
>> 
>> 
>> =======================================
>> 
>> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free
>> 
>> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
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>> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
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>> ---------------------------------------
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> 
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> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
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From lynne at mac-access.net  Sun Oct 16 13:13:24 2011
From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2011 13:13:24 +0100
Subject: Bluetooth Dongle, EEEPC and HP 
In-Reply-To: <194F48A9-A72D-41EF-B9FF-FBDB42E495AD@blueyonder.co.uk>
References: <0E146DD8-EEE6-4EBF-A4F5-D1B288183A1A@mac-access.net>
	<2E8156FD-C611-4D94-A0A0-ADC60CDFA664@internode.on.net>
	<926E42E8-6C07-49E8-954D-DFA4395D0FCB@mac-access.net>
	<194F48A9-A72D-41EF-B9FF-FBDB42E495AD@blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <8802F279-14EC-4006-B798-4A4EC9AD29B4@mac-access.net>

Hello Chris

Be assured I don't mean this in any way personally. I asked what I think is a perfectly reasonable question. I'm sorry if it comes across otherwise.

Lynne

On 16 Oct 2011, at 12:18, Chris Moore wrote:

Can you guys take this off list, some of us have busy inboxes and don't want to be bothered with personal spats. 



From lynne at mac-access.net  Sun Oct 16 17:39:17 2011
From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2011 17:39:17 +0100
Subject: Launching NVDA
Message-ID: <23FE4B89-1CA7-485B-AD0E-4CCDA0F8F33A@mac-access.net>

Hello everybody

Could somebody possibly please remind me of the shortcut key to launch NVDA and how to get at the NVDA settings or preferences?

I am speaking as somebody who has had little or no experience of using NVDA but I want to set it up on our netbook and also on Gillian's laptop which is a notebook (Del,I think).

As somebody with vision I hope you will excuse my lack of knowledge. I know how to get around Window-Eyes but NVDA is different. Oh, and while I remember, what about the setup of Braille with a display in NVDA? That's something Gordon would find useful. We have the HW drivers installed and his display works fine in Window-Eyes. But it might be nice in NVDA as well because we've noticed that sometimes even at the desktop NVDA is picking up more elements than WE does when you're looking at the task bar.

We have the iVox voices in Windows now and it really makes a difference. With the new HD audio drivers I just updated today the audio from our NetBook, which has long been a complaint of mine about that machine, is truly excellent now. The iVox voices make the world of difference.

Lynne




From juanitatighan at gmail.com  Sun Oct 16 17:40:54 2011
From: juanitatighan at gmail.com (Jane)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2011 12:40:54 -0400
Subject: Launching NVDA
In-Reply-To: <23FE4B89-1CA7-485B-AD0E-4CCDA0F8F33A@mac-access.net>
References: <23FE4B89-1CA7-485B-AD0E-4CCDA0F8F33A@mac-access.net>
Message-ID: <A2408F55-1675-4F16-B46A-DA19D188A7FB@gmail.com>

Hi, Lynne.

Alt-control-n should launch NDA.  I use a laptop, so my NVDA key is set to the caps ock.  To get to preferences, it's caps-lock-p or whatever your NVDA key is.

Jane




On Oct 16, 2011, at 12:39 PM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:

> Hello everybody
> 
> Could somebody possibly please remind me of the shortcut key to launch NVDA and how to get at the NVDA settings or preferences?
> 
> I am speaking as somebody who has had little or no experience of using NVDA but I want to set it up on our netbook and also on Gillian's laptop which is a notebook (Del,I think).
> 
> As somebody with vision I hope you will excuse my lack of knowledge. I know how to get around Window-Eyes but NVDA is different. Oh, and while I remember, what about the setup of Braille with a display in NVDA? That's something Gordon would find useful. We have the HW drivers installed and his display works fine in Window-Eyes. But it might be nice in NVDA as well because we've noticed that sometimes even at the desktop NVDA is picking up more elements than WE does when you're looking at the task bar.
> 
> We have the iVox voices in Windows now and it really makes a difference. With the new HD audio drivers I just updated today the audio from our NetBook, which has long been a complaint of mine about that machine, is truly excellent now. The iVox voices make the world of difference.
> 
> Lynne
> 
> 
> 
> 
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From grtdane at internode.on.net  Sun Oct 16 17:56:41 2011
From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane trethowan)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2011 03:56:41 +1100
Subject: Bluetooth Dongle, EEEPC and HP
In-Reply-To: <926E42E8-6C07-49E8-954D-DFA4395D0FCB@mac-access.net>
References: <0E146DD8-EEE6-4EBF-A4F5-D1B288183A1A@mac-access.net>
	<2E8156FD-C611-4D94-A0A0-ADC60CDFA664@internode.on.net>
	<926E42E8-6C07-49E8-954D-DFA4395D0FCB@mac-access.net>
Message-ID: <4E9B0CC9.7000901@internode.on.net>

Well, I'd rather a small voice than a big Head <smile>.



On 16/10/2011 7:28 AM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:
> Hello Dane
>
> Just let me get one thing *** absolutely *** strain right here and right now!  I did not, I replete, not, buy this machine to "copy', "emulate" or anything else the actions that you took. If that's the impression you have of me then you are wildly mistaken.
>
> I bought a totally different model to you; in actual fact I had been in the market for a similar machine long before you uttered a single word to me about yours. So please get that idea right out of your head.
>
> What you do and say has no baring on what I/we decide to do or not to do. Where you are correct is that I listened to advice, and of that advice yours was only one very small voice. I was, for instance, advised not to buy the Intel core machine that you have. I duly took that advice because I wanted something a little more speedy. As it happens your machine was in the shop on the next shelf down and the salesman said that they weren't selling.
>
> The only question I asked here is whether anybody had any recommendations regarding a bluetooth dongle. No need for any other philosophical advice, thank you.
>
> I do regret buying this specific model because it doesn't have Bluetooth and that's the primary reason. But that was my own fault for presuming that it did have. But I'm definitely not going out of my way to emulate you or anybody else.
>
> Lynne
>
> On 15 Oct 2011, at 12:07, Dane Trethowan wrote:
>
> My bluetooth keyboard actually came with one even though I don't need it, I've tried it with other devices and it seems to work.
>
> As for "Regretting" the purchase of an EEEPC? Well a couple of things here.
>
> Perhaps its just my attitude or something in the local water supply but I'm one of those people who don't regret any of my actions whether its buying something I couldn't use the way I thought or one of life's experiences, we can all learn from what we do thus if we learn then what is their to regret? Perhaps a discussion for another list<smile>  but really if anything is to come out of such a scenario as you've painted then its not to copy whatever anyone else is doing or buying, everyone has different needs.
>
> Thankfully when I purchased my EEEPC Netbook I had quite a few people I could talk to who did indeed help me make the decision on what to buy, in fat we had quite a discussion about the topic on Twitter and we helped each other research the best and cheapest model around at the time but as I said my needs are different than everyone's as everyone's needs are different than mine.
>
> My EEEPC model does have Bluetooth, something I'm particularly thankful for but it didn't have the faster Wireless protocol and only came standard with 1GB of memory.
>
> Thankfully both these problems were easily fixed, my local Computer shop - which also happened to be an Asus service agent - upgraded the memory and they were able to swap the internal wireless device for a faster one, some people told me it could be done whilst others told me it couldn't.
>
> My Asus is not used as a full-blown computer as I use it as a bedside machine you might say to read and respond to email, manage my media library, read books, listen to Internet radio and so it goes on.
>
> I also bought a HP that you referred to though this wasn't a Netbook, I had been advised against buying HP Netbook products by those it seems who know more about Netbooks than I do.
>
> The HP I have is a full Laptop machine, I think they call them Entertainment PC'S or something similar, only problem with that machine is the battery life is nowhere near as good as that of the EEEPC, I'm also informed that battery life has improved a lot in the very latest replacement models.
>
> Also note that HP is "Getting Out" of the PC business so what affect this will have I don't quite know, I only bought my HP as I was made an offer I couldn't refuse at the time regarding price and a full mobile multi media solution was what I had been looking for though I didn't want to spend too much money on it, I can send specs of both my EEEPC and HP I7 machines to anyone if they're interested, the HP is more powerful than any desktop system I've ever owned<smile>.
>
>
> On 15/10/2011, at 9:43 PM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:
>
>> Hello; and a very good Saturday everybody
>>
>> We, that is to say Gordon and I, are the owners of an Asus EEePC NetBook which does not have Bluetooth as a standard feature; much to our disappointment. I confess that, had I known at the time of purchase that Bluetooth was absent from the machine, I wouldn't have bought this particular model. In fact, to be honest, in some ways I'm regretting buying an Asus machine at all; as there are apparently better alternatives out there for the price I paid for the machine. In fact, I could, and should, have gone for something like an HP machine which has an I7 processor which I've seen in the same shop for just a little bit more money since I bought this machine. Overall it was a mistake because performance-wise and hardware specification-wise, it's really quite poor.
>>
>> Be that as it may, the deed is done; and so it's a case of living with it now.
>>
>> So, what I'd like to know is can anybody recommend a particular type of Microsoft compatible Bluetooth dongle that would work without the need to install obscure drivers and software such as that "Bluesoleil" or whatever it's called? We used to have a dongle like that for use with our old desktops and they were, not to put too fine a point on it, junk!
>>
>> Another option we're considering is selling this NetBook to my sister-in-law, and going for a totally brand new machine. In which case, does anybody have any recommendations/suggestions? it doesn't have to be a NetBook, we'd consider a reasonably priced NoteBook if we can find one with a decent specification. I'm not much interested in Acer, and given what I've seen of them performance-wise, I doubt very much I'd consider another Asus. One thing I really don't like about this machine is the fact that it won't let you go above 2GB of memory. yet, it's sold with Windows 7 pre-installed. Seems to me that 2GB is really not sufficient to run Windows 7 Ultimate, and we did perform that upgrade. The machine was supplied with a mere 1GB of RAM installed and Windows 7 Starter edition pre-installed. Pretty pathetic actually, given the recommendations of the software and hardware manufacturers themselves.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Lynne
>>
>>
>> =======================================
>>
>> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free
>>
>> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
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>>
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>> ---------------------------------------
>
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>
> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
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> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
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-- 
sent from my HP Powerhouse Notebook.




From lynne at mac-access.net  Sun Oct 16 18:18:15 2011
From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2011 18:18:15 +0100
Subject: Launching NVDA
In-Reply-To: <A2408F55-1675-4F16-B46A-DA19D188A7FB@gmail.com>
References: <23FE4B89-1CA7-485B-AD0E-4CCDA0F8F33A@mac-access.net>
	<A2408F55-1675-4F16-B46A-DA19D188A7FB@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <D626FA65-A75E-43E8-B245-5FE830BD95EE@mac-access.net>

hello Jane

Thank you ever so much for a prompt and informative respond. I'm not sure what keyboard layout this version is for so I will have to fiddle with it now and find out.

Our NetBook is, as I said, running the Infovox voices which I bought Gordon last week. He loves it and it makes Windows much more of a pleasure to use than those horrible Eloquance, Dectalk, RealSpeak and the other awful voices that typically come with screen-readers.

The InfoVox InKey is a bit expensive but it's worth while I think. So what we need to d next is to see how well Thunderbird or any other available email client works with NVDA and go from there.

Anyway Janes, thank you very much for the informative response.

Lynne


On 16 Oct 2011, at 17:40, Jane wrote:

Hi, Lynne.

Alt-control-n should launch NDA.  I use a laptop, so my NVDA key is set to the caps ock.  To get to preferences, it's caps-lock-p or whatever your NVDA key is.


From juanitatighan at gmail.com  Sun Oct 16 18:21:47 2011
From: juanitatighan at gmail.com (Jane)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2011 13:21:47 -0400
Subject: Launching NVDA
In-Reply-To: <D626FA65-A75E-43E8-B245-5FE830BD95EE@mac-access.net>
References: <23FE4B89-1CA7-485B-AD0E-4CCDA0F8F33A@mac-access.net>
	<A2408F55-1675-4F16-B46A-DA19D188A7FB@gmail.com>
	<D626FA65-A75E-43E8-B245-5FE830BD95EE@mac-access.net>
Message-ID: <DC3CCA3A-8D25-4637-8097-4C5D1F37C5A3@gmail.com>

you can change the keyboard type under Preferences.  I think the defaulgt key untl you change it to laptop, is the insert key. I only think so; not positive.  Thre should be documentation at 

www.nvda-project.org

Unfortunately, I don't remember exactly where off that site it is.

Jane





On Oct 16, 2011, at 1:18 PM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:

> hello Jane
> 
> Thank you ever so much for a prompt and informative respond. I'm not sure what keyboard layout this version is for so I will have to fiddle with it now and find out.
> 
> Our NetBook is, as I said, running the Infovox voices which I bought Gordon last week. He loves it and it makes Windows much more of a pleasure to use than those horrible Eloquance, Dectalk, RealSpeak and the other awful voices that typically come with screen-readers.
> 
> The InfoVox InKey is a bit expensive but it's worth while I think. So what we need to d next is to see how well Thunderbird or any other available email client works with NVDA and go from there.
> 
> Anyway Janes, thank you very much for the informative response.
> 
> Lynne
> 
> 
> On 16 Oct 2011, at 17:40, Jane wrote:
> 
> Hi, Lynne.
> 
> Alt-control-n should launch NDA.  I use a laptop, so my NVDA key is set to the caps ock.  To get to preferences, it's caps-lock-p or whatever your NVDA key is.
> 
> 
> =======================================
> 
> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free
> 
> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat
> 
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> 
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> 
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> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
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> 
> ---------------------------------------


From lynne at mac-access.net  Sun Oct 16 18:31:25 2011
From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2011 18:31:25 +0100
Subject: Launching NVDA
In-Reply-To: <DC3CCA3A-8D25-4637-8097-4C5D1F37C5A3@gmail.com>
References: <23FE4B89-1CA7-485B-AD0E-4CCDA0F8F33A@mac-access.net>
	<A2408F55-1675-4F16-B46A-DA19D188A7FB@gmail.com>
	<D626FA65-A75E-43E8-B245-5FE830BD95EE@mac-access.net>
	<DC3CCA3A-8D25-4637-8097-4C5D1F37C5A3@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9BF2C6C0-2622-452E-BB86-06874A2F1115@mac-access.net>

Hello Jamne

Once again thanks for the constructive response. I appreciate it; it is just a shame that not everybody responds in that manner all the time.

Lynne

On 16 Oct 2011, at 18:21, Jane wrote:

you can change the keyboard type under Preferences.  I think the defaulgt key untl you change it to laptop, is the insert key. I only think so; not positive.  Thre should be documentation at 

www.nvda-project.org

Unfortunately, I don't remember exactly where off that site it is.


From lynne at mac-access.net  Sun Oct 16 18:50:57 2011
From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2011 18:50:57 +0100
Subject: Downloading Winamp Pro 5.6.2
Message-ID: <580023D8-C7BD-49A9-BEA9-91C4D795D350@mac-access.net>

Hello everybody

Does anybody know how you're supposed to download this nowadays assuming you already have the pro license? I'm trawled all through the http://www.winam.com website and found only buy now links.

Lynne


From chris.hallsworth at techno-chat.net  Sun Oct 16 19:29:07 2011
From: chris.hallsworth at techno-chat.net (chris hallsworth)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2011 19:29:07 +0100
Subject: Downloading Winamp Pro 5.6.2
In-Reply-To: <580023D8-C7BD-49A9-BEA9-91C4D795D350@mac-access.net>
References: <580023D8-C7BD-49A9-BEA9-91C4D795D350@mac-access.net>
Message-ID: <4E9B2273.9060005@techno-chat.net>

Use www.winamp.com/player or you can get your own installer at 
www.ninite.com/winamp. The latter is better as it is all automated and 
it doesn't install toolbars or any other forms of junk.

On 16/10/2011 18:50, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:
> Hello everybody
>
> Does anybody know how you're supposed to download this nowadays assuming you already have the pro license? I'm trawled all through the http://www.winam.com website and found only buy now links.
>
> Lynne
>
>
> =======================================
>
> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free
>
> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat
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>
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> ---------------------------------------
>

From moore.c at blueyonder.co.uk  Sun Oct 16 22:23:20 2011
From: moore.c at blueyonder.co.uk (Chris Moore)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2011 22:23:20 +0100
Subject: Bluetooth Dongle, EEEPC and HP
In-Reply-To: <4E9B0CC9.7000901@internode.on.net>
References: <0E146DD8-EEE6-4EBF-A4F5-D1B288183A1A@mac-access.net>
	<2E8156FD-C611-4D94-A0A0-ADC60CDFA664@internode.on.net>
	<926E42E8-6C07-49E8-954D-DFA4395D0FCB@mac-access.net>
	<4E9B0CC9.7000901@internode.on.net>
Message-ID: <0AB2E7F6-FD30-4495-B07A-AE4825CA9948@blueyonder.co.uk>

Dane,

Grow up, and let's have less of the childish petty bitchy behaviour.

No one is interested.  Take it offline if you feel you have a point to raise.

Chris 
On 16 Oct 2011, at 17:56, Dane trethowan wrote:

> Well, I'd rather a small voice than a big Head <smile>.
> 
> 
> 
> On 16/10/2011 7:28 AM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:
>> Hello Dane
>> 
>> Just let me get one thing *** absolutely *** strain right here and right now!  I did not, I replete, not, buy this machine to "copy', "emulate" or anything else the actions that you took. If that's the impression you have of me then you are wildly mistaken.
>> 
>> I bought a totally different model to you; in actual fact I had been in the market for a similar machine long before you uttered a single word to me about yours. So please get that idea right out of your head.
>> 
>> What you do and say has no baring on what I/we decide to do or not to do. Where you are correct is that I listened to advice, and of that advice yours was only one very small voice. I was, for instance, advised not to buy the Intel core machine that you have. I duly took that advice because I wanted something a little more speedy. As it happens your machine was in the shop on the next shelf down and the salesman said that they weren't selling.
>> 
>> The only question I asked here is whether anybody had any recommendations regarding a bluetooth dongle. No need for any other philosophical advice, thank you.
>> 
>> I do regret buying this specific model because it doesn't have Bluetooth and that's the primary reason. But that was my own fault for presuming that it did have. But I'm definitely not going out of my way to emulate you or anybody else.
>> 
>> Lynne
>> 
>> On 15 Oct 2011, at 12:07, Dane Trethowan wrote:
>> 
>> My bluetooth keyboard actually came with one even though I don't need it, I've tried it with other devices and it seems to work.
>> 
>> As for "Regretting" the purchase of an EEEPC? Well a couple of things here.
>> 
>> Perhaps its just my attitude or something in the local water supply but I'm one of those people who don't regret any of my actions whether its buying something I couldn't use the way I thought or one of life's experiences, we can all learn from what we do thus if we learn then what is their to regret? Perhaps a discussion for another list<smile>  but really if anything is to come out of such a scenario as you've painted then its not to copy whatever anyone else is doing or buying, everyone has different needs.
>> 
>> Thankfully when I purchased my EEEPC Netbook I had quite a few people I could talk to who did indeed help me make the decision on what to buy, in fat we had quite a discussion about the topic on Twitter and we helped each other research the best and cheapest model around at the time but as I said my needs are different than everyone's as everyone's needs are different than mine.
>> 
>> My EEEPC model does have Bluetooth, something I'm particularly thankful for but it didn't have the faster Wireless protocol and only came standard with 1GB of memory.
>> 
>> Thankfully both these problems were easily fixed, my local Computer shop - which also happened to be an Asus service agent - upgraded the memory and they were able to swap the internal wireless device for a faster one, some people told me it could be done whilst others told me it couldn't.
>> 
>> My Asus is not used as a full-blown computer as I use it as a bedside machine you might say to read and respond to email, manage my media library, read books, listen to Internet radio and so it goes on.
>> 
>> I also bought a HP that you referred to though this wasn't a Netbook, I had been advised against buying HP Netbook products by those it seems who know more about Netbooks than I do.
>> 
>> The HP I have is a full Laptop machine, I think they call them Entertainment PC'S or something similar, only problem with that machine is the battery life is nowhere near as good as that of the EEEPC, I'm also informed that battery life has improved a lot in the very latest replacement models.
>> 
>> Also note that HP is "Getting Out" of the PC business so what affect this will have I don't quite know, I only bought my HP as I was made an offer I couldn't refuse at the time regarding price and a full mobile multi media solution was what I had been looking for though I didn't want to spend too much money on it, I can send specs of both my EEEPC and HP I7 machines to anyone if they're interested, the HP is more powerful than any desktop system I've ever owned<smile>.
>> 
>> 
>> On 15/10/2011, at 9:43 PM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:
>> 
>>> Hello; and a very good Saturday everybody
>>> 
>>> We, that is to say Gordon and I, are the owners of an Asus EEePC NetBook which does not have Bluetooth as a standard feature; much to our disappointment. I confess that, had I known at the time of purchase that Bluetooth was absent from the machine, I wouldn't have bought this particular model. In fact, to be honest, in some ways I'm regretting buying an Asus machine at all; as there are apparently better alternatives out there for the price I paid for the machine. In fact, I could, and should, have gone for something like an HP machine which has an I7 processor which I've seen in the same shop for just a little bit more money since I bought this machine. Overall it was a mistake because performance-wise and hardware specification-wise, it's really quite poor.
>>> 
>>> Be that as it may, the deed is done; and so it's a case of living with it now.
>>> 
>>> So, what I'd like to know is can anybody recommend a particular type of Microsoft compatible Bluetooth dongle that would work without the need to install obscure drivers and software such as that "Bluesoleil" or whatever it's called? We used to have a dongle like that for use with our old desktops and they were, not to put too fine a point on it, junk!
>>> 
>>> Another option we're considering is selling this NetBook to my sister-in-law, and going for a totally brand new machine. In which case, does anybody have any recommendations/suggestions? it doesn't have to be a NetBook, we'd consider a reasonably priced NoteBook if we can find one with a decent specification. I'm not much interested in Acer, and given what I've seen of them performance-wise, I doubt very much I'd consider another Asus. One thing I really don't like about this machine is the fact that it won't let you go above 2GB of memory. yet, it's sold with Windows 7 pre-installed. Seems to me that 2GB is really not sufficient to run Windows 7 Ultimate, and we did perform that upgrade. The machine was supplied with a mere 1GB of RAM installed and Windows 7 Starter edition pre-installed. Pretty pathetic actually, given the recommendations of the software and hardware manufacturers themselves.
>>> 
>>> Thanks.
>>> 
>>> Lynne
>>> 
>>> 
>>> =======================================
>>> 
>>> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free
>>> 
>>> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
>>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat
>>> 
>>> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites:
>>> 
>>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html
>>> 
>>> Or:
>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat at techno-chat.net>
>>> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
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>>> 
>>> ---------------------------------------
>> 
>> =======================================
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>> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
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From chris.hallsworth at techno-chat.net  Sun Oct 16 22:33:43 2011
From: chris.hallsworth at techno-chat.net (chris hallsworth)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2011 22:33:43 +0100
Subject: Fwd: Registering iPhone
Message-ID: <4E9B4DB7.4090309@techno-chat.net>



-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Registering iPhone
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2011 21:59:44 +0100
From: chris hallsworth <chris.hallsworth at techno-chat.net>
Reply-To: Mac OSX & iOS Accessibility <mac-access at mac-access.net>
To: Mac OSX & iOS Accessibility <mac-access at mac-access.net>

Is it true that registering an iPhone is not accessible on the PC side?
Thanks!
<--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->

To reply to this post, please address your message to 
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From lynne at mac-access.net  Mon Oct 17 14:10:58 2011
From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2011 14:10:58 +0100
Subject: Downloading Winamp Pro 5.6.2
In-Reply-To: <4E9B2273.9060005@techno-chat.net>
References: <580023D8-C7BD-49A9-BEA9-91C4D795D350@mac-access.net>
	<4E9B2273.9060005@techno-chat.net>
Message-ID: <F50CD2D1-CCD2-437F-B404-D151CBF9716F@mac-access.net>

Hello Chris

Does this allow you to specify the location of the installed scoff?

Thanks, Lynne


On 16 Oct 2011, at 19:29, chris hallsworth wrote:

Use www.winamp.com/player or you can get your own installer at www.ninite.com/winamp. The latter is better as it is all automated and it doesn't install toolbars or any other forms of junk.

On 16/10/2011 18:50, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:
> Hello everybody
> 
> Does anybody know how you're supposed to download this nowadays assuming you already have the pro license? I'm trawled all through the http://www.winam.com website and found only buy now links.
> 
> Lynne
> 
> 
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---------------------------------------


From mstores at indiana.edu  Mon Oct 17 14:42:02 2011
From: mstores at indiana.edu (Mary Stores)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2011 09:42:02 -0400
Subject: Downloading Winamp Pro 5.6.2
In-Reply-To: <F50CD2D1-CCD2-437F-B404-D151CBF9716F@mac-access.net>
References: <580023D8-C7BD-49A9-BEA9-91C4D795D350@mac-access.net>
	<4E9B2273.9060005@techno-chat.net>
	<F50CD2D1-CCD2-437F-B404-D151CBF9716F@mac-access.net>
Message-ID: <20111017094202.9ngt6j83cwwk44sw@webmail.iu.edu>

Yes, Lynne, it usually has an option where it will either place it in a 
folder, or you can browse to a location you specify.

Mary

Quoting "Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith" <lynne at mac-access.net>:

> Hello Chris
>
> Does this allow you to specify the location of the installed scoff?
>
> Thanks, Lynne
>
>



From lynne at mac-access.net  Mon Oct 17 14:48:31 2011
From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2011 14:48:31 +0100
Subject: Downloading Winamp Pro 5.6.2
In-Reply-To: <20111017094202.9ngt6j83cwwk44sw@webmail.iu.edu>
References: <580023D8-C7BD-49A9-BEA9-91C4D795D350@mac-access.net>
	<4E9B2273.9060005@techno-chat.net>
	<F50CD2D1-CCD2-437F-B404-D151CBF9716F@mac-access.net>
	<20111017094202.9ngt6j83cwwk44sw@webmail.iu.edu>
Message-ID: <57E1C553-1DDA-4780-831E-980D5DF3E64F@mac-access.net>

Hello Mary

Thank you very much for the confirmation; and thank you Chris H for the information. That's why this list is here and it's a pleasure to start receiving helpful input from members again.

Lynne

On 17 Oct 2011, at 14:42, Mary Stores wrote:

Yes, Lynne, it usually has an option where it will either place it in a folder, or you can browse to a location you specify.


From gordon at mac-access.net  Mon Oct 17 15:10:15 2011
From: gordon at mac-access.net (Gordon Smith)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2011 15:10:15 +0100
Subject: Makin' Movies!
Message-ID: <8FF46298-B088-461C-B30A-3B21140A671A@mac-access.net>

Hi all

OK, this has my curiosity.  I'm not sure whether there's a webcam built into our little NetBook or not.  I would be surprised if there is, to be utterly honest.  Nevertheless here's my question.  Is there an accessible movie making application that comes bundled with Windows 7 Ultimate?  I was tempted to say is there an application which come bungled with Windows 7 Ultimate ? but I must give credit where credit is due and although there are still a lot of faults, Microsoft has greatly improved stability with the release of Windows 7.  Hopefully Windows 8 may be even better.  And one can only hope that they aren't just concentrating on the cosmetic side of Windows.  Let's hope the improvements are not just skin-deep.

Gordon


From gordon at mac-access.net  Mon Oct 17 15:15:49 2011
From: gordon at mac-access.net (Gordon Smith)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2011 15:15:49 +0100
Subject: Keyspan USB to Serial Adapter
Message-ID: <7F7383D5-4FFB-4152-8C11-C1DBC17E33C7@mac-access.net>

Hi all

Anybody happen to have tried one of these beasties with Windows 7?  I'm asking because we're trying to get our Braille embosser to function and, although the serial port shows up as present, no matter what I do I can't get any joy from the embosser.  We're using an Index Everest DS, or should I say we are trying too.

Now, on a similar tack, we may possibly be in a position to acquire another embosser shortly.  This time I'm contemplating going for something a little more portable, but I'd still want the ability to use HQ paper and produce rapid HQ embossing.

I thought about the Mountbatton but from what I've heard they are slow and clunky.  Something that will only produce one sheet of paper per minute is no use to me.  So, any other recommendations or, in fact, am I wrong about the MB not being quick at producing HQ Braille?

Gordon


From moore.c at blueyonder.co.uk  Mon Oct 17 15:35:58 2011
From: moore.c at blueyonder.co.uk (Chris Moore)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2011 15:35:58 +0100
Subject: Makin' Movies!
In-Reply-To: <8FF46298-B088-461C-B30A-3B21140A671A@mac-access.net>
References: <8FF46298-B088-461C-B30A-3B21140A671A@mac-access.net>
Message-ID: <0905AB64-A2B3-4345-95FB-50AC47157404@blueyonder.co.uk>

Is the bundled Movie Maker that comes with Windows not accessible? How about just using iMovie on your Mac?
On 17 Oct 2011, at 15:10, Gordon Smith wrote:

> Hi all
> 
> OK, this has my curiosity.  I'm not sure whether there's a webcam built into our little NetBook or not.  I would be surprised if there is, to be utterly honest.  Nevertheless here's my question.  Is there an accessible movie making application that comes bundled with Windows 7 Ultimate?  I was tempted to say is there an application which come bungled with Windows 7 Ultimate ? but I must give credit where credit is due and although there are still a lot of faults, Microsoft has greatly improved stability with the release of Windows 7.  Hopefully Windows 8 may be even better.  And one can only hope that they aren't just concentrating on the cosmetic side of Windows.  Let's hope the improvements are not just skin-deep.
> 
> Gordon
> 
> 
> =======================================
> 
> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free
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From chris.hallsworth at techno-chat.net  Mon Oct 17 15:46:05 2011
From: chris.hallsworth at techno-chat.net (chris hallsworth)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2011 15:46:05 +0100
Subject: Downloading Winamp Pro 5.6.2
In-Reply-To: <F50CD2D1-CCD2-437F-B404-D151CBF9716F@mac-access.net>
References: <580023D8-C7BD-49A9-BEA9-91C4D795D350@mac-access.net>	<4E9B2273.9060005@techno-chat.net>
	<F50CD2D1-CCD2-437F-B404-D151CBF9716F@mac-access.net>
Message-ID: <4E9C3FAD.8010605@techno-chat.net>

Not with Ninite no as it is completely automated and silent.

On 17/10/2011 14:10, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:
> Hello Chris
>
> Does this allow you to specify the location of the installed scoff?
>
> Thanks, Lynne
>
>
> On 16 Oct 2011, at 19:29, chris hallsworth wrote:
>
> Use www.winamp.com/player or you can get your own installer at www.ninite.com/winamp. The latter is better as it is all automated and it doesn't install toolbars or any other forms of junk.
>
> On 16/10/2011 18:50, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:
>> Hello everybody
>>
>> Does anybody know how you're supposed to download this nowadays assuming you already have the pro license? I'm trawled all through the http://www.winam.com website and found only buy now links.
>>
>> Lynne
>>
>>
>> =======================================
>>
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>>
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From gordon at mac-access.net  Mon Oct 17 16:01:12 2011
From: gordon at mac-access.net (Gordon Smith)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2011 16:01:12 +0100
Subject: Makin' Movies!
In-Reply-To: <0905AB64-A2B3-4345-95FB-50AC47157404@blueyonder.co.uk>
References: <8FF46298-B088-461C-B30A-3B21140A671A@mac-access.net>
	<0905AB64-A2B3-4345-95FB-50AC47157404@blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <54E3BD75-0845-4FB2-A53F-414373C28991@mac-access.net>

Hi Chris

I honestly don't know about the Windows version.  If you say it's accessible, that's good enough for me.  As for making movies on the Mac, yes - that would be a logical recourse.  I just wanted to know if it was possible under Windows so that I had so means of capturing both what I am doing and also the image on my Mac's screen.

As you can tell, I don't know much about this sort of thing.

Gordon

On 17 Oct 2011, at 15:35, Chris Moore wrote:

Is the bundled Movie Maker that comes with Windows not accessible? How about just using iMovie on your Mac?
On 17 Oct 2011, at 15:10, Gordon Smith wrote:

> Hi all
> 
> OK, this has my curiosity.  I'm not sure whether there's a webcam built into our little NetBook or not.  I would be surprised if there is, to be utterly honest.  Nevertheless here's my question.  Is there an accessible movie making application that comes bundled with Windows 7 Ultimate?  I was tempted to say is there an application which come bungled with Windows 7 Ultimate ? but I must give credit where credit is due and although there are still a lot of faults, Microsoft has greatly improved stability with the release of Windows 7.  Hopefully Windows 8 may be even better.  And one can only hope that they aren't just concentrating on the cosmetic side of Windows.  Let's hope the improvements are not just skin-deep.
> 
> Gordon
> 
> 
> =======================================
> 
> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free
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---------------------------------------


From gordon at mac-access.net  Mon Oct 17 16:02:30 2011
From: gordon at mac-access.net (Gordon Smith)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2011 16:02:30 +0100
Subject: Downloading Winamp Pro 5.6.2
In-Reply-To: <4E9C3FAD.8010605@techno-chat.net>
References: <580023D8-C7BD-49A9-BEA9-91C4D795D350@mac-access.net>	<4E9B2273.9060005@techno-chat.net>
	<F50CD2D1-CCD2-437F-B404-D151CBF9716F@mac-access.net>
	<4E9C3FAD.8010605@techno-chat.net>
Message-ID: <30828FF1-2168-43BC-B0BE-C3E3D7F78A87@mac-access.net>

Hi Chris

Ah, right, well that's the end of that one then.  We don't use the automatic locations, preferring to keep things more logically organised.

Gordon

On 17 Oct 2011, at 15:46, chris hallsworth wrote:

Not with Ninite no as it is completely automated and silent.


From martin at x.it.okstate.edu  Mon Oct 17 17:24:43 2011
From: martin at x.it.okstate.edu (Martin McCormick)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2011 11:24:43 -0500
Subject: Keyspan USB to Serial Adapter 
Message-ID: <201110171624.p9HGOhsb099577@x.it.okstate.edu>

	There is almost an endless list of ways things can go
wrong regarding serial ports. Do you have any way to break the
problem in to smaller pieces such as verify that
A. The serial port really is sending and receiving?
B. The embosser works when conected with another known-good system.
Do you have a terminal program on the Windows system that would
let you manually send things to the embosser and does it respond
with confirmation of some kind?

	Even garbage is welcome in times like that because it
shows that data are going back and forth all be it wrongly.

	Usually, if you see that, it's the baud rate or a parity
problem.

	I hope that as long as I own anything that uses a serial
port, I have at least one other computer that also has a serial
port because problems like this happen often enough and you've
got two serial ports and a cable between the two that can each
have its own set of fatal problems.

	I've even seen a few where the baud rate was wrong and
nothing happens at all so you don't even get garbage and one
does not know if it needs a Null Modem adaptor or exactly why
nothing is happening.

	The nice thing about terminal programs even if you don't
own a modem any more is that they will often times report the
status of the various lines such as CTS/RTS and DTR which are
important for hardware handshaking.

From mstores at indiana.edu  Mon Oct 17 18:04:31 2011
From: mstores at indiana.edu (Mary Stores)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2011 13:04:31 -0400
Subject: Downloading Winamp Pro 5.6.2
In-Reply-To: <4E9C3FAD.8010605@techno-chat.net>
References: <580023D8-C7BD-49A9-BEA9-91C4D795D350@mac-access.net>
	<4E9B2273.9060005@techno-chat.net>
	<F50CD2D1-CCD2-437F-B404-D151CBF9716F@mac-access.net>
	<4E9C3FAD.8010605@techno-chat.net>
Message-ID: <20111017130431.5p3rq8maok0000sk@webmail.iu.edu>

I usually download Winamp from the main site and uncheck all the 
toolbar junk. It usually asks me where I want to save it. I am sorry, I 
should have specified that in my previous message.

Mary

Quoting chris hallsworth <chris.hallsworth at techno-chat.net>:

> Not with Ninite no as it is completely automated and silent.
>



From support at techno-chat.net  Mon Oct 17 20:03:43 2011
From: support at techno-chat.net (Gordon & Lynne)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2011 20:03:43 +0100
Subject: Upcoming Changes; Please Read
Message-ID: <205805FC-F8D6-413B-A078-EA10957CD2FA@techno-chat.net>

hello all

Gordon has been working hard all day to prepare our new email servers and we are almost ready to port all accounts under the mac-access.net domain, as well as the other accounts we host for clients under other domains over to our new server configuration.  It would help if we knew your passwords, although we are mindful in the extreme that some might be uncomfortable with the concept of giving us their passwords.

So, in the event that we don't have them, and that you aren't comfortable with the idea of giving us them, what we'll have to do is create the account for you and let you change the password via our new webmail interface.

We also plan on moving all lists over to the new server and we will be able to port all members over.  However, if they have special configuration options set they will most likely need to reset those options manually.  We apologise for any inconvenience. The move is being necessitated by a bug in the Snow Leopard open directory authentication mechanism which is hiding from us some vital user information and which is causing the LDAP server to crash spectacularly on occasions.

The name and address of the group will remain unchanged and if you don't collect mail from us directly the change will most likely not affect you at all.

We are pleased to be able to tell you that we have invested again in new SSL technology so that we can implement SSL encryption just as we do now, right from the very start.

When we bring the new servers on line, we will make the change so that it should be seamless. Gordon and I have invested heavily in network trunking and now have a total of 3 SDSL backbones dedicated to our own use, each of which has a 1 to 1 contention ratio.

If you require further information or if you would prefer to have us set up your account on the new servers using the same password as you have now, feel free to write to us at the support address (just reply to this message), and we will happily do that for you so that you can make the changes necessary to your local configuration and instantly be back on line.  If not, we will let you know your temporary passwords, and how to change them.

If you require further information or clarification, please do feel free to ask.

Lynne


From lynne at mac-access.net  Mon Oct 17 20:06:24 2011
From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2011 20:06:24 +0100
Subject: Downloading Winamp Pro 5.6.2
In-Reply-To: <20111017130431.5p3rq8maok0000sk@webmail.iu.edu>
References: <580023D8-C7BD-49A9-BEA9-91C4D795D350@mac-access.net>
	<4E9B2273.9060005@techno-chat.net>
	<F50CD2D1-CCD2-437F-B404-D151CBF9716F@mac-access.net>
	<4E9C3FAD.8010605@techno-chat.net>
	<20111017130431.5p3rq8maok0000sk@webmail.iu.edu>
Message-ID: <026255D4-B2B8-4750-BDEB-2CC98B1E2EFE@mac-access.net>

Hello Mary

The problem is I think that we're not downloading using Windows. Therefore the site isn't detecting the Windows browser.

I'll try again shortly.

Lynne

On 17 Oct 2011, at 18:04, Mary Stores wrote:

I usually download Winamp from the main site and uncheck all the toolbar junk. It usually asks me where I want to save it. I am sorry, I should have specified that in my previous message.


From lynne at mac-access.net  Mon Oct 17 20:08:17 2011
From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2011 20:08:17 +0100
Subject: Keyspan USB to Serial Adapter 
In-Reply-To: <201110171624.p9HGOhsb099577@x.it.okstate.edu>
References: <201110171624.p9HGOhsb099577@x.it.okstate.edu>
Message-ID: <49ADCC9A-BEDE-445A-B54C-430E665555DC@mac-access.net>

Hello Martin

All I can tell you for sure is that the embosser works. We've been wracking our collective brains for a while to find a way to test the port out; but as we have no other serial devices it's somewhat difficult.

Lynne

On 17 Oct 2011, at 17:24, Martin McCormick wrote:

	There is almost an endless list of ways things can go
wrong regarding serial ports. Do you have any way to break the
problem in to smaller pieces such as verify that
A. The serial port really is sending and receiving?
B. The embosser works when conected with another known-good system.
Do you have a terminal program on the Windows system that would
let you manually send things to the embosser and does it respond
with confirmation of some kind?

	Even garbage is welcome in times like that because it
shows that data are going back and forth all be it wrongly.

	Usually, if you see that, it's the baud rate or a parity
problem.

	I hope that as long as I own anything that uses a serial
port, I have at least one other computer that also has a serial
port because problems like this happen often enough and you've
got two serial ports and a cable between the two that can each
have its own set of fatal problems.

	I've even seen a few where the baud rate was wrong and
nothing happens at all so you don't even get garbage and one
does not know if it needs a Null Modem adaptor or exactly why
nothing is happening.

	The nice thing about terminal programs even if you don't
own a modem any more is that they will often times report the
status of the various lines such as CTS/RTS and DTR which are
important for hardware handshaking.

=======================================

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From martin at x.it.okstate.edu  Tue Oct 18 03:11:24 2011
From: martin at x.it.okstate.edu (Martin McCormick)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2011 21:11:24 -0500
Subject: Keyspan USB to Serial Adapter 
Message-ID: <201110180211.p9I2BOxx002296@x.it.okstate.edu>

	Does the embosser have any kind of human-readable
responses to any input you could give it? or can you do anything
to it to cause it to generate any output you could read with a
terminal program?

	I have, for example, a X10 controller that we use mostly
to turn our furnace on and off in the Winter. It does not send
any human-readable messages, but it does send certain bytes on
the serial port if you press buttons on the controller. If you
don't receive anything, something is wrong.

	I'm not talking about full functionality, just some way
to send data to the device to see what happens

	Back when I used MSDOS, I used to start MS-Kermit in
terminal mode when trouble-shooting and see if anything came
back when I did things that should provoke some sort of
response.

	There should be a terminal program in Windows that you
might be able to use to test with. It would let you type input
to the embosser and also let you see if the embosser tried to
send anything back to the computer.

	Also, your terminal might complain if the serial
converter is not fully operational. I've seen a few converters
in Unix systems that gave the impression they were there but
closer inspection showed that they didn't get along with the
operating system driver and were not actually working.

	Since you are running Windows, it is likely that the
converter is working as who, on Earth would sell a USB device
that doesn't work under Windows?

	Too bad you don't have a RS-232 breakout box. It's not
something you need every day, but today's your day, it sounds
like.

	It's a device that you plug in to the serial cable like
a modem. It usually has lights for all the serial lines and a
system of pins and jacks so you can temporarily see what lines
have signals on them and maybe solve the problem.

	If you know a friend who might have one, the breakout
box might point you in the right direction.

	I know you are trying not to get too complicated or
spend a lot of time and money so I am thinking of things
that are easy to try and do not require expensive equipment.

	When I first started working in IT back in 1989, we had
this really expensive HP Data Scope which was only designed to
debug RS-232 connections. It probably cost nearly 1000 Dollars
and it told you everything one would ever want to know about the
serial path both ways including full data capture.

	You certainly don't need anything like that, but it is
nice to know where to start looking.

	As for our Data Scope, somebody liked it so much it
disappeared, one day, never to be seen again. Some people's children!

	I am sure Gordon knows about this, but if worse comes to
worse, you could take a volt meter and see if DC signals are
appearing on the right pins when you bring up the serial port.
This is a rotten way to have to do things, but it might tell you
something. That's really scraping the bottom of the barrel,
however because you really need the cable fully connected since
some serial devices will do nothing if they don't see specific
signals.

	I knew a DecTalk speech synthesizer that wouldn't even
run if it didn't see a certain signal like Data Set Ready (DSR)
or was it Carrier Detect (CD) from the other end. I don't
remember, but it was a show stopper until one provided it
somehow.

	The voltages are not dangerous but they are plus and
minus twelve volts and some serial converters cheat a little and
send voltages that are not compliant with true RS232 standards
and some devices don't like that either.

	Sorry for all the babbling, but those are just some of
the reasons why RS232 refuses to work at times.

Martin


"Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith" writes:
> All I can tell you for sure is that the embosser works. We've been 
> wracking our collective brains for a while to find a way to test the port 
> out; but as we have no other serial devices it's somewhat difficult.

From lynne at mac-access.net  Tue Oct 18 12:55:45 2011
From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2011 12:55:45 +0100
Subject: Keyspan USB to Serial Adapter 
In-Reply-To: <201110180211.p9I2BOxx002296@x.it.okstate.edu>
References: <201110180211.p9I2BOxx002296@x.it.okstate.edu>
Message-ID: <60059829-B727-4BAE-9C52-4617EB35BEEA@mac-access.net>

Hello Martin

Not that I'm aware of. We have never had any success in communicating with it via a serial port, only parallel which, of course, no longer exists on today's computers. I looked for a parallel to USB adapter but I never managed to find one.

All I know is that the communications via serial are supposed to be 9600 Buad, 8/N/1. That's the default port setting so I had hoped it would just work; but no go.

Lynne


On 18 Oct 2011, at 03:11, Martin McCormick wrote:

	Does the embosser have any kind of human-readable
responses to any input you could give it? or can you do anything
to it to cause it to generate any output you could read with a
terminal program?

	I have, for example, a X10 controller that we use mostly
to turn our furnace on and off in the Winter. It does not send
any human-readable messages, but it does send certain bytes on
the serial port if you press buttons on the controller. If you
don't receive anything, something is wrong.

	I'm not talking about full functionality, just some way
to send data to the device to see what happens

	Back when I used MSDOS, I used to start MS-Kermit in
terminal mode when trouble-shooting and see if anything came
back when I did things that should provoke some sort of
response.

	There should be a terminal program in Windows that you
might be able to use to test with. It would let you type input
to the embosser and also let you see if the embosser tried to
send anything back to the computer.

	Also, your terminal might complain if the serial
converter is not fully operational. I've seen a few converters
in Unix systems that gave the impression they were there but
closer inspection showed that they didn't get along with the
operating system driver and were not actually working.

	Since you are running Windows, it is likely that the
converter is working as who, on Earth would sell a USB device
that doesn't work under Windows?

	Too bad you don't have a RS-232 breakout box. It's not
something you need every day, but today's your day, it sounds
like.

	It's a device that you plug in to the serial cable like
a modem. It usually has lights for all the serial lines and a
system of pins and jacks so you can temporarily see what lines
have signals on them and maybe solve the problem.

	If you know a friend who might have one, the breakout
box might point you in the right direction.

	I know you are trying not to get too complicated or
spend a lot of time and money so I am thinking of things
that are easy to try and do not require expensive equipment.

	When I first started working in IT back in 1989, we had
this really expensive HP Data Scope which was only designed to
debug RS-232 connections. It probably cost nearly 1000 Dollars
and it told you everything one would ever want to know about the
serial path both ways including full data capture.

	You certainly don't need anything like that, but it is
nice to know where to start looking.

	As for our Data Scope, somebody liked it so much it
disappeared, one day, never to be seen again. Some people's children!

	I am sure Gordon knows about this, but if worse comes to
worse, you could take a volt meter and see if DC signals are
appearing on the right pins when you bring up the serial port.
This is a rotten way to have to do things, but it might tell you
something. That's really scraping the bottom of the barrel,
however because you really need the cable fully connected since
some serial devices will do nothing if they don't see specific
signals.

	I knew a DecTalk speech synthesizer that wouldn't even
run if it didn't see a certain signal like Data Set Ready (DSR)
or was it Carrier Detect (CD) from the other end. I don't
remember, but it was a show stopper until one provided it
somehow.

	The voltages are not dangerous but they are plus and
minus twelve volts and some serial converters cheat a little and
send voltages that are not compliant with true RS232 standards
and some devices don't like that either.

	Sorry for all the babbling, but those are just some of
the reasons why RS232 refuses to work at times.

Martin


"Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith" writes:
> All I can tell you for sure is that the embosser works. We've been 
> wracking our collective brains for a while to find a way to test the port 
> out; but as we have no other serial devices it's somewhat difficult.

=======================================

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---------------------------------------


From martin at x.it.okstate.edu  Tue Oct 18 15:42:55 2011
From: martin at x.it.okstate.edu (Martin McCormick)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2011 09:42:55 -0500
Subject: Keyspan USB to Serial Adapter 
Message-ID: <201110181442.p9IEgtdL005493@x.it.okstate.edu>

"Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith" writes:

> All I know is that the communications via serial are supposed to be 9600 
> Buad, 8/N/1. That's the default port setting so I had hoped it would just 
> work; but no go.

	That is a very common setting all right.
Back when dial-up modems were a
lot more common, some devices had to see a Carrier Detect signal
because they were connected to computers over the phone lines
rather than one right there at hand. No CD signal, no go even
though everything else was ready.

	Today, a lot of what serial control is left is what they
sometimes call "three-wire-control." That means a common lead,
data from the computer to the device and data from the device
back to the computer and that's all. That is because the
hardware is so much improved over what it once was that
elaborate hardware flow-control isn't as necessary as it used to
be.

	The trouble is that older equipment may still need to
see all those signals that aren't used much any more.

	Does the documentation with your embosser have a
detailed description of the serial cable that they require you
use?

	Are there any of those wonderful DIP switches that used
to be found on a lot of stuff that let you set things like baud
rate and whether the system uses its parallel or serial port?

	These probably sound like silly questions, but it is
usually something agrivatingly ordinary that keeps stuff like
this from working.

	Finally, how old is it? I ask that because the older
serial equipment tends to be more difficult to get running than
present equipment that sometimes even autoconfigures its own
serial ports based on what signals they see when somebody
connects to it.

	Just some more thoughts.

From lynne at mac-access.net  Tue Oct 18 18:30:38 2011
From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2011 18:30:38 +0100
Subject: Keyspan USB to Serial Adapter 
In-Reply-To: <201110181442.p9IEgtdL005493@x.it.okstate.edu>
References: <201110181442.p9IEgtdL005493@x.it.okstate.edu>
Message-ID: <1D098C82-68D9-441E-A615-E729A1F7F962@mac-access.net>

Hello Martin

Gordon is wondering whether we're using the wrong kind of serial lead. I doubt it; but what we are doing is this:

1. Keyspan adapter connects to host computer via USB.

2.  The 9-pin mail connecter on the serial end of the Keyspan goes into a strait pip-for-pin serial extension lead which has the correct connecters on either end.

3. The other end of the extension lead goes into the serial connector on the back of the embosser.

We've checked in the embosser's visual and talking interface and we have the serial configuration correct, 9600, 8/N/1.

So we are stumped; but it's starting to look as though the keyspan idea is a dead duck, and we have a couple of grand's worth of embosser here which we can no longer use.

Lynne

On 18 Oct 2011, at 15:42, Martin McCormick wrote:

"Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith" writes:

> All I know is that the communications via serial are supposed to be 9600 
> Buad, 8/N/1. That's the default port setting so I had hoped it would just 
> work; but no go.

	That is a very common setting all right.
Back when dial-up modems were a
lot more common, some devices had to see a Carrier Detect signal
because they were connected to computers over the phone lines
rather than one right there at hand. No CD signal, no go even
though everything else was ready.

	Today, a lot of what serial control is left is what they
sometimes call "three-wire-control." That means a common lead,
data from the computer to the device and data from the device
back to the computer and that's all. That is because the
hardware is so much improved over what it once was that
elaborate hardware flow-control isn't as necessary as it used to
be.

	The trouble is that older equipment may still need to
see all those signals that aren't used much any more.

	Does the documentation with your embosser have a
detailed description of the serial cable that they require you
use?

	Are there any of those wonderful DIP switches that used
to be found on a lot of stuff that let you set things like baud
rate and whether the system uses its parallel or serial port?

	These probably sound like silly questions, but it is
usually something agrivatingly ordinary that keeps stuff like
this from working.

	Finally, how old is it? I ask that because the older
serial equipment tends to be more difficult to get running than
present equipment that sometimes even autoconfigures its own
serial ports based on what signals they see when somebody
connects to it.

	Just some more thoughts.

=======================================

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To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat

You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites:

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---------------------------------------


From support at techno-chat.net  Tue Oct 18 18:43:57 2011
From: support at techno-chat.net (Gordon & Lynne)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2011 18:43:57 +0100
Subject: Imminent List Change
Message-ID: <90DB7563-71BF-4FAD-B1EE-7812C8D5BDD1@techno-chat.net>

Hello everybody

This evening, our time, Gordon and I are planning to move this group over to our new servers which are located at a different host and IP address.

We will port all memberships across to that new location and we will do our very best to ensure minimal disruption. However, because it sometimes takes a while for DNS changes to propagate the Internet, you may receive a bounce in the very short term if you try to post to the list. Please do not worry about this; or think you're being dumped from the group. It simply means that the DNS hasn't propagated to your provider's DNS servers yet.

We will do our best to keep the disruption to a minimum, and we hope it will create no inconvenience for you. We will let the group know when all is done.

If you have any questions, please feel free to contact <support at techno-chat.net> and we'll do our best to address your concerns.

Lynne


From martin at x.it.okstate.edu  Tue Oct 18 19:42:33 2011
From: martin at x.it.okstate.edu (Martin McCormick)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2011 13:42:33 -0500
Subject: Keyspan USB to Serial Adapter 
Message-ID: <201110181842.p9IIgX92006621@x.it.okstate.edu>

	There are two configurations for serial connectors. One
is called DTE for Data Terminal Equipment and the other is
called DCE for Data Communications Equipment. Back in the old
days, personal computers were treated as terminals since they
usually didn't do anything with modems other than use them to
connect to big powerful computers that had maybe a 10 or 20
megabyte hard drive, and possibly a meg of core memory if the
computer was doing something really special so P.C.'s had their
serial ports wired as DTE since they were thought of as
terminals to a larger system. Modems were DCE devices since they
were in the communications business. The idea was that the male
plug on the terminal's serial port would fit right in to the
female DCE port on the modem.

	Then, the perfect beautiful world exploded. Oh, the
humanity! People started using their personal computers like
well, computers and the distinction between DTE and DCE became
almost meaningless except that it still means as much as ever
because several of the conductors in the serial cable are
unidirectional. Each device has one data out, one data in and a
RTS and a CTS line to mention most of them.

	DTE's and DCE's fit together like hands and gloves.
Data-out on one connects to Data-in on the other. RTS on one
goes to CTS on the other so if you have a straight-through cable
with the correct gender plugs on it, it all works.

	The nasty part is that not everybody uses the correct
gender plugs. A DCE port has Data-in, Data-out, etc, going to
specific pins, but some folks use a male plug and others use a
female plug for exactly the same thing which means that you
really don't know unless it is documented whether you've got a
DCE configuration or a DTE.

	Thank goodness that most interfaces can handle the
situation of two DTE or two DCE devices staring each other down
in a cable or modem. Essentially, the signals are shorting each
other out and all the inputs are uselessly looking at each
other, waiting for somebody to say something so to speak.

	So, you have the right gender connectors but you could
possibly have two DTE devices colliding with each other which is
doing nothing but making a little heat.

	Have you tried a null-modem adaptor? It swaps all the
important pins around and also changes the gender. Since you say
the gender is presently right, you would also need a gender
changer which keeps all the pins the same on both ends, but has
either a male on each end or a female.

	Neither of those items are terribly expensive although
serial plugs and adaptors are getting a little harder to find
because they are not used as much as they were at one time.

	From your description, it sounds like you might try a
null-modem plus a male-to-male gender bender to get the gender
correct for your embosser.

	If that doesn't work, I am out of further suggestions
and I truly apologize if I have told you a bunch of things you
already knew. Unless the serial port on your embosser is broken,
the odds of getting it to work with the proper software are good
but you sure have to get that DCE versus DTE thing right and the
gender of the connector is only half the problem.

	The same goes for DB25 connectors. Some will be wired as
DTE and others as DCE and they might be either male or female.

Martin

From tsiegel at softcon.com  Tue Oct 18 23:58:04 2011
From: tsiegel at softcon.com (Travis Siegel)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2011 18:58:04 -0400
Subject: Keyspan USB to Serial Adapter 
In-Reply-To: <1D098C82-68D9-441E-A615-E729A1F7F962@mac-access.net>
References: <201110181442.p9IEgtdL005493@x.it.okstate.edu>
	<1D098C82-68D9-441E-A615-E729A1F7F962@mac-access.net>
Message-ID: <6BCC1777-1316-47BD-A832-B01FDEB9F8D1@softcon.com>

You need to verify that the adapter that goes from the keyspan to the  
printer cable is a straight through connector, (I.E. a gender bender)  
only, and not a null modem adapter.  Unfortunately, (to make things  
more difficult) a lot of adapters which were supposed to be straight  
through adapters were actually null modem adapters, and simply  
labeled as straight through, because they assumed you were talking to  
a device that needed the null modem functionality.  I've (at times)  
had to go through several adapters before I got the one that did the  
actual talking to the device in question.
Also, if you're using 9-pin to 25-pin adapters, be sure they're wired  
correctly (I used to know this all off the top of my head, but it's  
slipped out for lack of use) but it's something like pins 2 and 3 get  
reversed, 1-4-7 all get tied together, and most of the rest of the 25- 
pins should tie to pin 9.  Again, this is being dug up from a memory  
that definitely isn't what it was before, and it's been several  
years, so definitely take with a grain of salt, but anyhow, I've seen  
a lot of 9-25 adapters that weren't wired properly either :)
It gets real fun trying to make it all work.

From lynne at mac-access.net  Wed Oct 19 07:28:55 2011
From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2011 07:28:55 +0100
Subject: Keyspan USB to Serial Adapter 
In-Reply-To: <201110181842.p9IIgX92006621@x.it.okstate.edu>
References: <201110181842.p9IIgX92006621@x.it.okstate.edu>
Message-ID: <D859E903-281B-42AE-9508-1C70930253E1@mac-access.net>

Hello Martin

All we have is the strait-through cable which connects the devices because they're too far apart for the Keyspan cable to reach. I think you're looking too hard for a solution here. The documentation for the embosser tells us that the 8N1 settings and 9600 BPS configuration are correct. We don't have the facilities to try anything els since we have no other serial devices. We don't own a modem or anything like it. So if it doesn't work, then that's the end of the story; it just doesn't work; and we're stuck. It really is as simple as that.

Lynne

On 18 Oct 2011, at 19:42, Martin McCormick wrote:

	There are two configurations for serial connectors. One
is called DTE for Data Terminal Equipment and the other is
called DCE for Data Communications Equipment. Back in the old
days, personal computers were treated as terminals since they
usually didn't do anything with modems other than use them to
connect to big powerful computers that had maybe a 10 or 20
megabyte hard drive, and possibly a meg of core memory if the
computer was doing something really special so P.C.'s had their
serial ports wired as DTE since they were thought of as
terminals to a larger system. Modems were DCE devices since they
were in the communications business. The idea was that the male
plug on the terminal's serial port would fit right in to the
female DCE port on the modem.

	Then, the perfect beautiful world exploded. Oh, the
humanity! People started using their personal computers like
well, computers and the distinction between DTE and DCE became
almost meaningless except that it still means as much as ever
because several of the conductors in the serial cable are
unidirectional. Each device has one data out, one data in and a
RTS and a CTS line to mention most of them.

	DTE's and DCE's fit together like hands and gloves.
Data-out on one connects to Data-in on the other. RTS on one
goes to CTS on the other so if you have a straight-through cable
with the correct gender plugs on it, it all works.

	The nasty part is that not everybody uses the correct
gender plugs. A DCE port has Data-in, Data-out, etc, going to
specific pins, but some folks use a male plug and others use a
female plug for exactly the same thing which means that you
really don't know unless it is documented whether you've got a
DCE configuration or a DTE.

	Thank goodness that most interfaces can handle the
situation of two DTE or two DCE devices staring each other down
in a cable or modem. Essentially, the signals are shorting each
other out and all the inputs are uselessly looking at each
other, waiting for somebody to say something so to speak.

	So, you have the right gender connectors but you could
possibly have two DTE devices colliding with each other which is
doing nothing but making a little heat.

	Have you tried a null-modem adaptor? It swaps all the
important pins around and also changes the gender. Since you say
the gender is presently right, you would also need a gender
changer which keeps all the pins the same on both ends, but has
either a male on each end or a female.

	Neither of those items are terribly expensive although
serial plugs and adaptors are getting a little harder to find
because they are not used as much as they were at one time.

	From your description, it sounds like you might try a
null-modem plus a male-to-male gender bender to get the gender
correct for your embosser.

	If that doesn't work, I am out of further suggestions
and I truly apologize if I have told you a bunch of things you
already knew. Unless the serial port on your embosser is broken,
the odds of getting it to work with the proper software are good
but you sure have to get that DCE versus DTE thing right and the
gender of the connector is only half the problem.

	The same goes for DB25 connectors. Some will be wired as
DTE and others as DCE and they might be either male or female.

Martin

=======================================

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To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
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---------------------------------------


From lynne at mac-access.net  Wed Oct 19 07:30:45 2011
From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2011 07:30:45 +0100
Subject: Keyspan USB to Serial Adapter 
In-Reply-To: <6BCC1777-1316-47BD-A832-B01FDEB9F8D1@softcon.com>
References: <201110181442.p9IEgtdL005493@x.it.okstate.edu>
	<1D098C82-68D9-441E-A615-E729A1F7F962@mac-access.net>
	<6BCC1777-1316-47BD-A832-B01FDEB9F8D1@softcon.com>
Message-ID: <12616969-CFC8-4B6C-819F-F8C85E7BB822@mac-access.net>

Hello Travis

We have tested the cable using a multimeter to verify that it really is a strait pin for pin cable. It is 9-pin to 9-pin, there are no adapters involved.

Lynne


On 18 Oct 2011, at 23:58, Travis Siegel wrote:

You need to verify that the adapter that goes from the keyspan to the printer cable is a straight through connector, (I.E. a gender bender) only, and not a null modem adapter.  Unfortunately, (to make things more difficult) a lot of adapters which were supposed to be straight through adapters were actually null modem adapters, and simply labeled as straight through, because they assumed you were talking to a device that needed the null modem functionality.  I've (at times) had to go through several adapters before I got the one that did the actual talking to the device in question.
Also, if you're using 9-pin to 25-pin adapters, be sure they're wired correctly (I used to know this all off the top of my head, but it's slipped out for lack of use) but it's something like pins 2 and 3 get reversed, 1-4-7 all get tied together, and most of the rest of the 25-pins should tie to pin 9.  Again, this is being dug up from a memory that definitely isn't what it was before, and it's been several years, so definitely take with a grain of salt, but anyhow, I've seen a lot of 9-25 adapters that weren't wired properly either :)
It gets real fun trying to make it all work.

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From martin at x.it.okstate.edu  Wed Oct 19 14:41:47 2011
From: martin at x.it.okstate.edu (Martin McCormick)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2011 08:41:47 -0500
Subject: Keyspan USB to Serial Adapter 
Message-ID: <201110191341.p9JDflp2011242@x.it.okstate.edu>

"Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith" writes:
> All we have is the strait-through cable which connects the devices 
> because they're too far apart for the Keyspan cable to reach. I think 
> you're looking too hard for a solution here. The documentation for the 
> embosser tells us that the 8N1 settings and 9600 BPS configuration are 
> correct. We don't have the facilities to try anything els since we have 
> no other serial devices. We don't own a modem or anything like it. So if 
> it doesn't work, then that's the end of the story; it just doesn't work; 

	As one who hates to see expensive equipment sit idle, I
can't stand it if it should work and isn't. You said that you
have never gotten any serial port to work with that device which
leads me to think that the plugs may fit but the embosser's
serial connections are not compatible with the straight-through
cable.

	The documentation should list all 9 pins on the DB9
which is on the machine, itself. See what pin numbers correspond
with what functions and then look at the pin-out for your serial
converter.

	Data out on one has to go to Data in on the other. RTS
on one has to connect to CTS on the other and, of course, Common
is the same pin at both ends.

	If it turns out you need a null-modem, that will
probably cost about 1-100TH of the cost of the now useless
embosser.

	Null modems don't have any electronics in them. They
just patch all the complimentary signals. One probably costs
around ten Pounds or Dollars. I haven't priced one recently but
it would be a shame if that's the only thing between nothing and
a working system.

	Chances are that it still won't work but it's not like
you bet the whole farm and lost.

	I have a whole fruit cake tin of various adaptors that I
bought for various reasons that have gotten me out of jams like
the one you describe. I try to label them in Braille if there is
room because some of the null modems and gender changers look
precisely alike, but you certainly don't want to use one instead
of the other although when you use one, you may also need the
other to make the plugs fit again.

From lynne at mac-access.net  Thu Oct 20 20:51:32 2011
From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2011 20:51:32 +0100
Subject: NVDA; a little help, please?
Message-ID: <0F81BF23-8F36-43DC-90BA-CAD21E549A98@mac-access.net>

Hello everybody

Could somebody please arise me as to how you change the voices and other default settings in NVDA? We are playing with it at the moment but the default voice makes me want to visit the toilet and throw up! It's dreadful; even worse than the Microsoft voices. We have InfoVox version 3 for Windows, (it's also coming to the Mac very soon if you're an iVox user). But in the meantime, I really would appreciate some help.

Lynne



From chris.hallsworth at techno-chat.net  Thu Oct 20 20:57:49 2011
From: chris.hallsworth at techno-chat.net (chris hallsworth)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2011 20:57:49 +0100
Subject: NVDA; a little help, please?
In-Reply-To: <0F81BF23-8F36-43DC-90BA-CAD21E549A98@mac-access.net>
References: <0F81BF23-8F36-43DC-90BA-CAD21E549A98@mac-access.net>
Message-ID: <4EA07D3D.4080105@techno-chat.net>

Ok you can access the preferences with NVDA-n, p. The NVDA key is the 
insert key by default. Voice settings for example is NVDA-n, p, v. You 
can also activate it with NVDA-CTRL-v. I'm sorry you don't like the 
default voice. I must admit I don't, but I have changed the 
characteristics of the default synthesizer to my liking and it's great. 
Good luck.

On 20/10/2011 20:51, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:
> Hello everybody
>
> Could somebody please arise me as to how you change the voices and other default settings in NVDA? We are playing with it at the moment but the default voice makes me want to visit the toilet and throw up! It's dreadful; even worse than the Microsoft voices. We have InfoVox version 3 for Windows, (it's also coming to the Mac very soon if you're an iVox user). But in the meantime, I really would appreciate some help.
>
> Lynne
>
>
>
> =======================================
>
> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free
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> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
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From lynne at mac-access.net  Thu Oct 20 21:02:17 2011
From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2011 21:02:17 +0100
Subject: NVDA; a little help, please?
In-Reply-To: <4EA07D3D.4080105@techno-chat.net>
References: <0F81BF23-8F36-43DC-90BA-CAD21E549A98@mac-access.net>
	<4EA07D3D.4080105@techno-chat.net>
Message-ID: <1027A5AD-90DB-4D59-A2C0-3B821BE13A9E@mac-access.net>

hello Chris

The machine we have is a tiny NetBook and I have figured out that the NVDA key seems to be the caps lock key. So just to be clear; are you saying that I have to press the NVDA key, i.e., the caps lock key in conjunction with the N key and then the P key?

Lynner


On 20 Oct 2011, at 20:57, chris hallsworth wrote:

Ok you can access the preferences with NVDA-n, p. The NVDA key is the insert key by default. Voice settings for example is NVDA-n, p, v. You can also activate it with NVDA-CTRL-v. I'm sorry you don't like the default voice. I must admit I don't, but I have changed the characteristics of the default synthesizer to my liking and it's great. Good luck.

On 20/10/2011 20:51, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:
> Hello everybody
> 
> Could somebody please arise me as to how you change the voices and other default settings in NVDA? We are playing with it at the moment but the default voice makes me want to visit the toilet and throw up! It's dreadful; even worse than the Microsoft voices. We have InfoVox version 3 for Windows, (it's also coming to the Mac very soon if you're an iVox user). But in the meantime, I really would appreciate some help.
> 
> Lynne
> 
> 
> 
> =======================================
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From chris.hallsworth at techno-chat.net  Thu Oct 20 23:15:10 2011
From: chris.hallsworth at techno-chat.net (chris hallsworth)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2011 23:15:10 +0100
Subject: NVDA; a little help, please?
In-Reply-To: <1027A5AD-90DB-4D59-A2C0-3B821BE13A9E@mac-access.net>
References: <0F81BF23-8F36-43DC-90BA-CAD21E549A98@mac-access.net>	<4EA07D3D.4080105@techno-chat.net>
	<1027A5AD-90DB-4D59-A2C0-3B821BE13A9E@mac-access.net>
Message-ID: <4EA09D6E.30500@techno-chat.net>

In that case yes.

On 20/10/2011 21:02, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:
> hello Chris
>
> The machine we have is a tiny NetBook and I have figured out that the NVDA key seems to be the caps lock key. So just to be clear; are you saying that I have to press the NVDA key, i.e., the caps lock key in conjunction with the N key and then the P key?
>
> Lynner
>
>
> On 20 Oct 2011, at 20:57, chris hallsworth wrote:
>
> Ok you can access the preferences with NVDA-n, p. The NVDA key is the insert key by default. Voice settings for example is NVDA-n, p, v. You can also activate it with NVDA-CTRL-v. I'm sorry you don't like the default voice. I must admit I don't, but I have changed the characteristics of the default synthesizer to my liking and it's great. Good luck.
>
> On 20/10/2011 20:51, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:
>> Hello everybody
>>
>> Could somebody please arise me as to how you change the voices and other default settings in NVDA? We are playing with it at the moment but the default voice makes me want to visit the toilet and throw up! It's dreadful; even worse than the Microsoft voices. We have InfoVox version 3 for Windows, (it's also coming to the Mac very soon if you're an iVox user). But in the meantime, I really would appreciate some help.
>>
>> Lynne
>>
>>
>>
>> =======================================
>>
>> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free
>>
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From lynne at mac-access.net  Fri Oct 21 06:19:50 2011
From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2011 06:19:50 +0100
Subject: Keyspan USB to Serial Adapter 
In-Reply-To: <201110191341.p9JDflp2011242@x.it.okstate.edu>
References: <201110191341.p9JDflp2011242@x.it.okstate.edu>
Message-ID: <3A08AB54-8111-4CFB-B7A9-E89485380512@mac-access.net>

Hello Martin

On 19 Oct 2011, at 14:41, Martin McCormick wrote:

? As one who hates to see expensive equipment sit idle, I can't stand it if it should work and isn't. You said that you
have never gotten any serial port to work with that device which leads me to think that the plugs may fit but the embosser's
serial connections are not compatible with the straight-through cable.

That could be. OK, let me try to explain exactly how this is configured. First, there is a USB type A to type B cable which runs from the PC's USB 2.0 port to the Keyspan adapter. The adapter itself is a US19H, if anybody knows that model, and has a mail 9-pin serial terminator which, according to the documentation, is configured as a standard serial port.

So, we reasoned that if we employed a strait pin-for-pin connector cable with a male connector on one end (to fit the female connector on the embosser's rear panel), and a female connector on the other end, (to connect to the male connector on the Keyspan), that should effectively just give us a Keyspan adapter with a standard serial port, end of story.

Now, as you say, there could be something in the embosser which isn't having anything to do with this. But according to the documentation which Gordon has in Braille but not in any electronic format, the serial connector is standard RS232 configuration. So we're stumped as to why it won't work.

So, what Gordon is planning to do is go back to basics. Forget about the software and just try, from the Windows command line, to pipe something through to the embosser. As in, from what he's told me. dump the output of a "Dir" command to the serial port like this:
dir c:\ > com3
which is where the keyspan currently resides.

We can only do this under Windows at the command line since we have no way to drop back to native DOS. I only know this because Gordon is telling me as I write.

? The documentation should list all 9 pins on the DB9 which is on the machine, itself. See what pin numbers correspond
with what functions and then look at the pin-out for your serial converter.

No, it doesn't give you that level of detail.

? Data out on one has to go to Data in on the other. RTS on one has to connect to CTS on the other and, of course, Common
is the same pin at both ends.

Yes, that's the way Gordon thinks it's wired internally with the Keyspan. The frustrating thing here, Martin, is that we know for a fact that some other people on our lists are using Keyspans. yet they sit there in silence when we politely request information. We appreciate fully that you yourself are trying to be of assistance; and we appreciate that very much. But all the same, there are others with similar setups who could be of assistance. Ah well, not to worry; what goes around comes around.

Lynne


From lynne at mac-access.net  Fri Oct 21 06:30:28 2011
From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2011 06:30:28 +0100
Subject: NVDA; a little help, please?
In-Reply-To: <4EA09D6E.30500@techno-chat.net>
References: <0F81BF23-8F36-43DC-90BA-CAD21E549A98@mac-access.net>	<4EA07D3D.4080105@techno-chat.net>
	<1027A5AD-90DB-4D59-A2C0-3B821BE13A9E@mac-access.net>
	<4EA09D6E.30500@techno-chat.net>
Message-ID: <98C8E5E5-097C-417F-8B9F-A8ED847BD883@mac-access.net>

hello Chris

Thank you for this; I'll try it shortly. NVDA seems to be giving better access to some applications than Window-Eyes does. We will try it in more thoroughness once this horrible voice that it uses by default is out of the way. I think that's probably one of the worst example of artificial speech I have ever had the misfortune to encounter. It makes us realise just how fortunate we are to have Infovox on all of our machines. We have a household license for the Mac version, which gives us access to British English, US English and French. We also have a household license to VisioVoice and Ghost Reader on the Mac, both of which use those voices.

On Windows, we bought the "InKey" version of Infovox a couple of weeks ago which gives us 3 licenses for 3 Windows-based machines. I opted to do that rather than buy the cheaper, but less versatile, Infovox Desktop. That would have only given us a single user license; and would have proven far more costly to upgrade with additional licences.

Those people who run iVox on the Mac; I can tell you that there are some very major changes coming shortly in the next version of iVox. The traditional v1 and v2 configuration manager has gone, to be replaced by a much more integrated "Voice Manager" which handles the installation of voices and the purchase and activation of licenses.

Lynne


From gordon at mac-access.net  Fri Oct 21 18:06:22 2011
From: gordon at mac-access.net (Gordon Smith)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2011 18:06:22 +0100
Subject: wireless N protocol on the iPhone 4s?
In-Reply-To: <D61D81E7-B4DA-450D-A60C-EA49E673B3F0@gmail.com>
References: <2F8AE8D7-C7F1-4D3E-8C45-476F2F6A520B@gmail.com>
	<E3F2562C-D1FD-4831-8A87-A8FEFC3C951F@mac-access.net>
	<387A426E-5DB8-45F4-BCDB-BEBD1AAF21DB@gmail.com>
	<ABC9FDDD-EE14-461F-8F76-80FCF115B1A0@mac-access.net>
	<D61D81E7-B4DA-450D-A60C-EA49E673B3F0@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ED2E6E27-EF83-47B6-95AA-00B957B5A402@mac-access.net>

Hi William

I've moved this from mac Access.

Virgin Media! Say No More! Their hubs, just like those of BT, are junk!

Fine, I guess, if all you want is basic connectivity and that's it.  But if you need more advanced sharing you're out of luck.

By sharing, I mean bridging, not port forwarding.  Actually I've never seen their port forwarding mechanism but if it's anything like the rest of the crud you're talking about here, I feel sorry for you!

Gordon

On 21 Oct 2011, at 10:06, william lomas wrote:

the virgin media hub is an all in one device so not sure what i would do. 
The N protocol I assume is a stronger connection

On Oct 21, 2011, at 9:49 AM, Gordon Smith wrote:

> Hi William
> 
> I can just about figure out what you're trying to say here.  But I'm amazed that your router won't support both bands at once, most modern routers do because it's necessary for fallback compatibility.
> 
> Yes, the Mac supports both frequency ranges because, as I said, it is backwards compatible.  But what you're saying proves that the iPhone does not support the 5GHZ wireless-N protocol.
> 
> So if your router won't support both at once, you have 2 options:  1.  Stick with Wireless-G and be done with it.  2.  Jump on that router and buy yourself a proper one! :)
> 
> Even the Time Capsules and Airport base stations which, although alright for most residential network configurations, are very slow and clunky switches for high speed traffic.  But they do support both bands simultaneously at least.
> 
> Gordon
> 
> On 21 Oct 2011, at 08:25, william lomas wrote:
> 
> Gordon
> 
> 
> with mine, see, i think, i have to set it to either or. 
> So if I set it to the 2.4 ghz when I log in, I see the iPhone connecting to it, yet as my iMac i assume has an N enabled card? it flawless with the five ghz yet the iPhone isn't.
> very strange, never mind
> 
> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->
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From martin at x.it.okstate.edu  Sat Oct 22 02:37:42 2011
From: martin at x.it.okstate.edu (Martin McCormick)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2011 20:37:42 -0500
Subject: Keyspan USB to Serial Adapter 
Message-ID: <201110220137.p9M1bgwK028512@x.it.okstate.edu>

First, I am sorry I have taken so long to respond with more of
my no help, but I have been busy with work today

	I just googled the following link:

          http://www.google.com/url?q=http://www.zytrax.com/tech/layer_1/c
          ables/tech_rs232.htm&sa=U&ei=2Q-iTqvRCO3LsQKjudyQBQ&ved=0CBQQFjA
          A&usg=AFQjCNGwU_W79FDKwoYrgkg3AeDvbOLeUQ

	That's 3 lines for that link so you will need to join
them together and remove any spaces this causes to make a good
link, but it tells you more than you ever wanted to know about
RS-232. 

"Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith" writes:
> First, there is a USB type A to type B cable which runs from the PC's USB 
> 2.0 port to the Keyspan adapter. The adapter itself is a US19H, if 
> anybody knows that model, and has a mail 9-pin serial terminator which, 
> according to the documentation, is configured as a standard serial port.

	There are actually two standard serial ports and that's
where the trouble lies. The DCE and DTE stuff I was going on
about are the two standards and a DCE device will only work when
connected to a DTE device.

	The documentation for both the port and the embosser's
port can honestly say that they are standard RS232
configurations, but which standard?

	If they both behave as DTE devices, they will not work
together and you can take that to the bank. It is very possible
that the embosser is also wired as a DTE device since it is more like
a terminal than a computer. The link above mentions that P.C.
ports are also wired as DTE

"Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith" writes:
> So, we reasoned that if we employed a strait pin-for-pin connector cable 
> with a male connector on one end (to fit the female connector on the 
> embosser's rear panel), and a female connector on the other end, (to 
> connect to the male connector on the Keyspan), that should effectively 
> just give us a Keyspan adapter with a standard serial port, end of story.

I wish, and I am not being sarcastic.

> So, what Gordon is planning to do is go back to basics. Forget about the 
> software and just try, from the Windows command line, to pipe something 
> through to the embosser. As in, from what he's told me. dump the output 
> of a "Dir" command to the serial port like this:
> dir c:\ > com3
> which is where the keyspan currently resides.

	That is a good idea but it will not tell you much. The
data will gush out the Transmit line whether or not anything is
connected. Obviously if the embosser comes to life and prints
the directory listing in Braille, the cable works, but if we
still have two DTE ports looking at each other, nothing is going
to happen.
"Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith" writes:
> We can only do this under Windows at the command line since we have no 
> way to drop back to native DOS. I only know this because Gordon is 
> telling me as I write.
> 
> ? The documentation should list all 9 pins on the DB9 which is on the 
> machine, itself. See what pin numbers correspond
> with what functions and then look at the pin-out for your serial 
> converter.
> 
> No, it doesn't give you that level of detail.

	Wow! You did say that you have a multimeter. You don't
have to probe every pin on both connectors, but you can figure
this out with just the Common pin and the Data In and Data Out
pins.

	I have used straight pins before to probe the holes on a
female connector. You shouldn't get shocked on these voltages
and straight pins are smaller than the regular pins so you
shouldn't damage the springy female receivers.

	Using that link I sent you, connect the meter ground to
common on the male connector from your computer and then verify
that you get voltage on Data Out. It's usually -12 volts. Data
in will show 0 or very close to 0 volts as it is an input.

	Now go to the embosser and probe for Common and look for
its Data Out. If you were to plug the two connectors together,
that pin has to match Data In on your computer. Data Out on your
computer fits in to  Data In on the embosser. This absolutely
has to happen. 

	As I said, before, I'd spring a few Bucks/pounds for a
null modem block that had a female DB9 on one side and a male
DB9 on the other and give it a try. It very well may do nothing
good, but this is most likely the reason why you've never gotten
it to work before.

	If it doesn't, you've tried all the most plausible
solutions. Get a fruit cake tin, put your null modem there and
keep it safe for some other day when something similar comes up.

	I'd really like to hear if you get it working and, if it
is something else that was stopping everything, I am dying to
know what it was. These have all been my best educated guesses.

Martin

From lynne at mac-access.net  Sat Oct 22 22:15:49 2011
From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2011 22:15:49 +0100
Subject: Keyspan USB to Serial Adapter 
In-Reply-To: <201110220137.p9M1bgwK028512@x.it.okstate.edu>
References: <201110220137.p9M1bgwK028512@x.it.okstate.edu>
Message-ID: <A4F36273-610A-4372-B0F5-882696B43E26@mac-access.net>

Hello Martin

On 22 Oct 2011, at 02:37, Martin McCormick wrote:

? First, I am sorry I have taken so long to respond with more of
my no help, but I have been busy with work today

We all have lives to live; so absolutely no problem at all.

	I just googled the following link:

Yikes! This is way way above my head I'm afraid. We are going to have to try and come up with a more simplified way of testing the devices. Gordon thinks that we need to first test the Keyspan to find out whether or not that is working properly. The question is  how. We don't possess a serial modem; having either disposed of or deliberately destroyed all of those years ago. Gordon says it's at least 10 years since he had any use for a dial-up modem, as he went broadband in July of 2000 and as of that date never touched another modem again.

He used to own a US Robotics Courier modem and also apparently a "Sportster", whatever that is. But as I said they went through the milling machine years ago and eased to exist in a similar fashion to that which our desktop PC's did in early 2010. All I can say is I wouldn't have liked to be in the place of those PC's. Gordon used a 28 Pound sledgehammer on them and smashed them both to a pulp; having first removed the hard drives, which are the only parts we still have.

Anyway, to get back to the point; we need to find a way of first determining what the Keyspan is doing. Then we need to find out what the embosser is receiving back from the KeySpan and visa versa. It's all very well having all that in-depth information; but knowing what to do with it once you have it, even assuming you have the necessary test equipment, is another matter entirely.

What we need I think is some sort of diagnostics software. Or some way of forcing data to be sent to a serial line. We know of the command line syntax to dump a file to the serial port under DOS but whether that works under the Windows command line environment is another matter entirely.

If it does, we have a problem. I tried it, using:
dir c:\ > com3
having first checked to see what the parameters of Com3 were set too. The default was 9600, 8 N 1. Exactly what the embosser's documentation says it requires; although you can actually change that in its configuration menu.

Lynne

         http://www.google.com/url?q=http://www.zytrax.com/tech/layer_1/c
         ables/tech_rs232.htm&sa=U&ei=2Q-iTqvRCO3LsQKjudyQBQ&ved=0CBQQFjA
         A&usg=AFQjCNGwU_W79FDKwoYrgkg3AeDvbOLeUQ

	That's 3 lines for that link so you will need to join
them together and remove any spaces this causes to make a good
link, but it tells you more than you ever wanted to know about
RS-232. 

"Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith" writes:
> First, there is a USB type A to type B cable which runs from the PC's USB 
> 2.0 port to the Keyspan adapter. The adapter itself is a US19H, if 
> anybody knows that model, and has a mail 9-pin serial terminator which, 
> according to the documentation, is configured as a standard serial port.

	There are actually two standard serial ports and that's
where the trouble lies. The DCE and DTE stuff I was going on
about are the two standards and a DCE device will only work when
connected to a DTE device.

	The documentation for both the port and the embosser's
port can honestly say that they are standard RS232
configurations, but which standard?

	If they both behave as DTE devices, they will not work
together and you can take that to the bank. It is very possible
that the embosser is also wired as a DTE device since it is more like
a terminal than a computer. The link above mentions that P.C.
ports are also wired as DTE

"Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith" writes:
> So, we reasoned that if we employed a strait pin-for-pin connector cable 
> with a male connector on one end (to fit the female connector on the 
> embosser's rear panel), and a female connector on the other end, (to 
> connect to the male connector on the Keyspan), that should effectively 
> just give us a Keyspan adapter with a standard serial port, end of story.

I wish, and I am not being sarcastic.

> So, what Gordon is planning to do is go back to basics. Forget about the 
> software and just try, from the Windows command line, to pipe something 
> through to the embosser. As in, from what he's told me. dump the output 
> of a "Dir" command to the serial port like this:
> dir c:\ > com3
> which is where the keyspan currently resides.

	That is a good idea but it will not tell you much. The
data will gush out the Transmit line whether or not anything is
connected. Obviously if the embosser comes to life and prints
the directory listing in Braille, the cable works, but if we
still have two DTE ports looking at each other, nothing is going
to happen.
"Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith" writes:
> We can only do this under Windows at the command line since we have no 
> way to drop back to native DOS. I only know this because Gordon is 
> telling me as I write.
> 
> ? The documentation should list all 9 pins on the DB9 which is on the 
> machine, itself. See what pin numbers correspond
> with what functions and then look at the pin-out for your serial 
> converter.
> 
> No, it doesn't give you that level of detail.

	Wow! You did say that you have a multimeter. You don't
have to probe every pin on both connectors, but you can figure
this out with just the Common pin and the Data In and Data Out
pins.

	I have used straight pins before to probe the holes on a
female connector. You shouldn't get shocked on these voltages
and straight pins are smaller than the regular pins so you
shouldn't damage the springy female receivers.

	Using that link I sent you, connect the meter ground to
common on the male connector from your computer and then verify
that you get voltage on Data Out. It's usually -12 volts. Data
in will show 0 or very close to 0 volts as it is an input.

	Now go to the embosser and probe for Common and look for
its Data Out. If you were to plug the two connectors together,
that pin has to match Data In on your computer. Data Out on your
computer fits in to  Data In on the embosser. This absolutely
has to happen. 

	As I said, before, I'd spring a few Bucks/pounds for a
null modem block that had a female DB9 on one side and a male
DB9 on the other and give it a try. It very well may do nothing
good, but this is most likely the reason why you've never gotten
it to work before.

	If it doesn't, you've tried all the most plausible
solutions. Get a fruit cake tin, put your null modem there and
keep it safe for some other day when something similar comes up.

	I'd really like to hear if you get it working and, if it
is something else that was stopping everything, I am dying to
know what it was. These have all been my best educated guesses.

Martin

=======================================

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To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
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---------------------------------------


From lynne at mac-access.net  Sun Oct 23 00:29:15 2011
From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2011 00:29:15 +0100
Subject: NVDA;
	From The Perspective Of A Visually Abled Person Wishing To Learn?
Message-ID: <93EAF5DA-34DB-4F1D-9ED9-C0DAD10046A0@mac-access.net>

Hello everybody

This could turn into a bit of an essay so, if it does, then I apologise.

Would somebody be willing to give me some guidance in the use of NVDA please? I suppose this is kind of a stupid request; but believe it or not I have never really seriously played around with, let alone used a screen-reader under Microsoft Windows and when I tried using Window-Eyes version 7.5.1 not so very long ago, it came as a major shock to me because so much of the on-screen content was so radically different in appearance to how it is without a screen-reader. That is especially true of website and HTML viewing, of course. With Window-Eyes running, all you essentially get is a vertical sheet which contains your elements. Some of the elements even look different; in as much as that they lose their graphical properties and sometimes colours. Links generally look the same; unless their properties have been enhanced by the designer which is perfect possible and often the case. Window-Eyes seems to verbalise such events as "Link Image". Usually, although not always, a link appears visually as a coloured piece of text with an underlined background. That depends upon the designer and I'm guessing that the colour and the properties of the background wouldn't matter; it should still be recognised as a link by its code.

Im quite used to using a website with VoiceOver resident under Mac OS X; but in that environment the appearance of the web content doesn't change when you disable VoiceOver. The actual appearance is retained and although sometimes VoiceOver does funny things with it, it's usual to find things are absolutely identical with and without VoiceOver.

I was warned a long time ago to expect the kind of behaviour I see under Windows; but I still had no idea it would be quite so radically different. Now I have an understanding as to why those without vision have so much trouble sometimes following instructions given to them by those of us with vision when working under Windows. The practices and procedures are so radically different, as are the appearance of many, if not all screens.

So, all that having been said; I would like to try NVDA now that we have Gordon's synthetic girlfriend from Mac OS X, (Rachel) imported. Incidentally, for those of you who understand what he means by this, (which I didn't at first), Gordon tells me that Infovox iVox under Windows uses a SAPI 4.0 engine rather than the latest SAPI 5.0. I don't know whether that matters; she seems to work alright even under Window-Eyes. :)

Anyway, to get back to the original point. Would anybody be willing, off list if you prefer, to give me some guidance as to how to use NVDA? Gordon is helping me with Window-Eyes, but he doesn't have the experience with NVDA to feel comfortable trying to teach me. It would be a bit like a student trying to teach a teacher in school; which really wouldn't work. I plan to broaden my IT knowledge of the Windows environment; and I plan to download the latest JFW demo. I want to increase my understanding and knowledge as to how you work when you have a visual impairment under Windows. I've done this under OSX and I'm keen to expand my knowledge.

Your cooperation would be greatly appreciated; although I don't men to intrude on anybody's precious time. So please don't feel under any obligation. I want to learn JFW as well at some point as I said. I don't want to be labelled as just one of those visually abled people or, as others often refer to them (although I really dislike the term) sighted people, who won't put themselves out to try and find out how those less fortunate than they are work.

Thank you.

Lynne


From juanitatighan at gmail.com  Sun Oct 23 02:39:24 2011
From: juanitatighan at gmail.com (Jane)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2011 21:39:24 -0400
Subject: NVDA;
	From The Perspective Of A Visually Abled Person Wishing To Learn?
In-Reply-To: <93EAF5DA-34DB-4F1D-9ED9-C0DAD10046A0@mac-access.net>
References: <93EAF5DA-34DB-4F1D-9ED9-C0DAD10046A0@mac-access.net>
Message-ID: <4A9D1828-2C68-40BD-BC83-D1FC24BD932B@gmail.com>

Hello, Lynne.

would you be interested in Skyping sometie tomorrow? I'm on US Eastern time.  Just a thought  I can at leasst try to give you pointers and tips.  Email me off list if you want and we can set something up.

Jane




On Oct 22, 2011, at 7:29 PM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:

> Hello everybody
> 
> This could turn into a bit of an essay so, if it does, then I apologise.
> 
> Would somebody be willing to give me some guidance in the use of NVDA please? I suppose this is kind of a stupid request; but believe it or not I have never really seriously played around with, let alone used a screen-reader under Microsoft Windows and when I tried using Window-Eyes version 7.5.1 not so very long ago, it came as a major shock to me because so much of the on-screen content was so radically different in appearance to how it is without a screen-reader. That is especially true of website and HTML viewing, of course. With Window-Eyes running, all you essentially get is a vertical sheet which contains your elements. Some of the elements even look different; in as much as that they lose their graphical properties and sometimes colours. Links generally look the same; unless their properties have been enhanced by the designer which is perfect possible and often the case. Window-Eyes seems to verbalise such events as "Link Image". Usually, although not always, a link a
> ppears visually as a coloured piece of text with an underlined background. That depends upon the designer and I'm guessing that the colour and the properties of the background wouldn't matter; it should still be recognised as a link by its code.
> 
> Im quite used to using a website with VoiceOver resident under Mac OS X; but in that environment the appearance of the web content doesn't change when you disable VoiceOver. The actual appearance is retained and although sometimes VoiceOver does funny things with it, it's usual to find things are absolutely identical with and without VoiceOver.
> 
> I was warned a long time ago to expect the kind of behaviour I see under Windows; but I still had no idea it would be quite so radically different. Now I have an understanding as to why those without vision have so much trouble sometimes following instructions given to them by those of us with vision when working under Windows. The practices and procedures are so radically different, as are the appearance of many, if not all screens.
> 
> So, all that having been said; I would like to try NVDA now that we have Gordon's synthetic girlfriend from Mac OS X, (Rachel) imported. Incidentally, for those of you who understand what he means by this, (which I didn't at first), Gordon tells me that Infovox iVox under Windows uses a SAPI 4.0 engine rather than the latest SAPI 5.0. I don't know whether that matters; she seems to work alright even under Window-Eyes. :)
> 
> Anyway, to get back to the original point. Would anybody be willing, off list if you prefer, to give me some guidance as to how to use NVDA? Gordon is helping me with Window-Eyes, but he doesn't have the experience with NVDA to feel comfortable trying to teach me. It would be a bit like a student trying to teach a teacher in school; which really wouldn't work. I plan to broaden my IT knowledge of the Windows environment; and I plan to download the latest JFW demo. I want to increase my understanding and knowledge as to how you work when you have a visual impairment under Windows. I've done this under OSX and I'm keen to expand my knowledge.
> 
> Your cooperation would be greatly appreciated; although I don't men to intrude on anybody's precious time. So please don't feel under any obligation. I want to learn JFW as well at some point as I said. I don't want to be labelled as just one of those visually abled people or, as others often refer to them (although I really dislike the term) sighted people, who won't put themselves out to try and find out how those less fortunate than they are work.
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> Lynne
> 
> 
> =======================================
> 
> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free
> 
> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat
> 
> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites:
> 
> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html
> 
> Or:
> <http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat at techno-chat.net>
> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
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> 
> ---------------------------------------


From gordon at mac-access.net  Sun Oct 23 02:44:14 2011
From: gordon at mac-access.net (Gordon Smith)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2011 02:44:14 +0100
Subject: NVDA;
	From The Perspective Of A Visually Abled Person Wishing To Learn?
In-Reply-To: <4A9D1828-2C68-40BD-BC83-D1FC24BD932B@gmail.com>
References: <93EAF5DA-34DB-4F1D-9ED9-C0DAD10046A0@mac-access.net>
	<4A9D1828-2C68-40BD-BC83-D1FC24BD932B@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8812AA4A-7404-4F99-BE9E-4D165CFC6CC6@mac-access.net>

Hello Jane

I am very grateful for your offer; but I'm afraid we don't use Skype. I am a little nervous of those chat utilities ever since an unfortunate event which occurred last year. Whilst I'm sure everybody here is absolutely genuine and I have absolutely no doubt of motivation, I am not comfortable with the concept.

If there's any means by which we could discuss it via private email Jane, I would be more than happy to do that.

Please don't think I'm being difficult and, of course, if you'd prefer not to do it that way I'll more than understand. But I'm sure we could fix something up between us.

Thank you very kindly for the offer.

Lynne

On 23 Oct 2011, at 02:39, Jane wrote:

Hello, Lynne.

would you be interested in Skyping sometie tomorrow? I'm on US Eastern time.  Just a thought  I can at leasst try to give you pointers and tips.  Email me off list if you want and we can set something up.

Jane




On Oct 22, 2011, at 7:29 PM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:

> Hello everybody
> 
> This could turn into a bit of an essay so, if it does, then I apologise.
> 
> Would somebody be willing to give me some guidance in the use of NVDA please? I suppose this is kind of a stupid request; but believe it or not I have never really seriously played around with, let alone used a screen-reader under Microsoft Windows and when I tried using Window-Eyes version 7.5.1 not so very long ago, it came as a major shock to me because so much of the on-screen content was so radically different in appearance to how it is without a screen-reader. That is especially true of website and HTML viewing, of course. With Window-Eyes running, all you essentially get is a vertical sheet which contains your elements. Some of the elements even look different; in as much as that they lose their graphical properties and sometimes colours. Links generally look the same; unless their properties have been enhanced by the designer which is perfect possible and often the case. Window-Eyes seems to verbalise such events as "Link Image". Usually, although not always, a link
 a
> ppears visually as a coloured piece of text with an underlined background. That depends upon the designer and I'm guessing that the colour and the properties of the background wouldn't matter; it should still be recognised as a link by its code.
> 
> Im quite used to using a website with VoiceOver resident under Mac OS X; but in that environment the appearance of the web content doesn't change when you disable VoiceOver. The actual appearance is retained and although sometimes VoiceOver does funny things with it, it's usual to find things are absolutely identical with and without VoiceOver.
> 
> I was warned a long time ago to expect the kind of behaviour I see under Windows; but I still had no idea it would be quite so radically different. Now I have an understanding as to why those without vision have so much trouble sometimes following instructions given to them by those of us with vision when working under Windows. The practices and procedures are so radically different, as are the appearance of many, if not all screens.
> 
> So, all that having been said; I would like to try NVDA now that we have Gordon's synthetic girlfriend from Mac OS X, (Rachel) imported. Incidentally, for those of you who understand what he means by this, (which I didn't at first), Gordon tells me that Infovox iVox under Windows uses a SAPI 4.0 engine rather than the latest SAPI 5.0. I don't know whether that matters; she seems to work alright even under Window-Eyes. :)
> 
> Anyway, to get back to the original point. Would anybody be willing, off list if you prefer, to give me some guidance as to how to use NVDA? Gordon is helping me with Window-Eyes, but he doesn't have the experience with NVDA to feel comfortable trying to teach me. It would be a bit like a student trying to teach a teacher in school; which really wouldn't work. I plan to broaden my IT knowledge of the Windows environment; and I plan to download the latest JFW demo. I want to increase my understanding and knowledge as to how you work when you have a visual impairment under Windows. I've done this under OSX and I'm keen to expand my knowledge.
> 
> Your cooperation would be greatly appreciated; although I don't men to intrude on anybody's precious time. So please don't feel under any obligation. I want to learn JFW as well at some point as I said. I don't want to be labelled as just one of those visually abled people or, as others often refer to them (although I really dislike the term) sighted people, who won't put themselves out to try and find out how those less fortunate than they are work.
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> Lynne
> 
> 
> =======================================
> 
> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free
> 
> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat
> 
> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites:
> 
> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html
> 
> Or:
> <http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat at techno-chat.net>
> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
> <http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat at techno-chat.net/maillist.xml>
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=======================================

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To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
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You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites:

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---------------------------------------


From lynne at mac-access.net  Sun Oct 23 02:44:51 2011
From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2011 02:44:51 +0100
Subject: NVDA;
	From The Perspective Of A Visually Abled Person Wishing To Learn?
In-Reply-To: <8812AA4A-7404-4F99-BE9E-4D165CFC6CC6@mac-access.net>
References: <93EAF5DA-34DB-4F1D-9ED9-C0DAD10046A0@mac-access.net>
	<4A9D1828-2C68-40BD-BC83-D1FC24BD932B@gmail.com>
	<8812AA4A-7404-4F99-BE9E-4D165CFC6CC6@mac-access.net>
Message-ID: <8F410146-0F1A-49D0-8A9A-24AAFBAB9953@mac-access.net>

Oopse! Sorry Jane; I forgot to change accounts.

Lynne


On 23 Oct 2011, at 02:44, Gordon Smith wrote:

Hello Jane

I am very grateful for your offer; but I'm afraid we don't use Skype. I am a little nervous of those chat utilities ever since an unfortunate event which occurred last year. Whilst I'm sure everybody here is absolutely genuine and I have absolutely no doubt of motivation, I am not comfortable with the concept.

If there's any means by which we could discuss it via private email Jane, I would be more than happy to do that.

Please don't think I'm being difficult and, of course, if you'd prefer not to do it that way I'll more than understand. But I'm sure we could fix something up between us.

Thank you very kindly for the offer.

Lynne

On 23 Oct 2011, at 02:39, Jane wrote:

Hello, Lynne.

would you be interested in Skyping sometie tomorrow? I'm on US Eastern time.  Just a thought  I can at leasst try to give you pointers and tips.  Email me off list if you want and we can set something up.

Jane




On Oct 22, 2011, at 7:29 PM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:

> Hello everybody
> 
> This could turn into a bit of an essay so, if it does, then I apologise.
> 
> Would somebody be willing to give me some guidance in the use of NVDA please? I suppose this is kind of a stupid request; but believe it or not I have never really seriously played around with, let alone used a screen-reader under Microsoft Windows and when I tried using Window-Eyes version 7.5.1 not so very long ago, it came as a major shock to me because so much of the on-screen content was so radically different in appearance to how it is without a screen-reader. That is especially true of website and HTML viewing, of course. With Window-Eyes running, all you essentially get is a vertical sheet which contains your elements. Some of the elements even look different; in as much as that they lose their graphical properties and sometimes colours. Links generally look the same; unless their properties have been enhanced by the designer which is perfect possible and often the case. Window-Eyes seems to verbalise such events as "Link Image". Usually, although not always, a link
a
> ppears visually as a coloured piece of text with an underlined background. That depends upon the designer and I'm guessing that the colour and the properties of the background wouldn't matter; it should still be recognised as a link by its code.
> 
> Im quite used to using a website with VoiceOver resident under Mac OS X; but in that environment the appearance of the web content doesn't change when you disable VoiceOver. The actual appearance is retained and although sometimes VoiceOver does funny things with it, it's usual to find things are absolutely identical with and without VoiceOver.
> 
> I was warned a long time ago to expect the kind of behaviour I see under Windows; but I still had no idea it would be quite so radically different. Now I have an understanding as to why those without vision have so much trouble sometimes following instructions given to them by those of us with vision when working under Windows. The practices and procedures are so radically different, as are the appearance of many, if not all screens.
> 
> So, all that having been said; I would like to try NVDA now that we have Gordon's synthetic girlfriend from Mac OS X, (Rachel) imported. Incidentally, for those of you who understand what he means by this, (which I didn't at first), Gordon tells me that Infovox iVox under Windows uses a SAPI 4.0 engine rather than the latest SAPI 5.0. I don't know whether that matters; she seems to work alright even under Window-Eyes. :)
> 
> Anyway, to get back to the original point. Would anybody be willing, off list if you prefer, to give me some guidance as to how to use NVDA? Gordon is helping me with Window-Eyes, but he doesn't have the experience with NVDA to feel comfortable trying to teach me. It would be a bit like a student trying to teach a teacher in school; which really wouldn't work. I plan to broaden my IT knowledge of the Windows environment; and I plan to download the latest JFW demo. I want to increase my understanding and knowledge as to how you work when you have a visual impairment under Windows. I've done this under OSX and I'm keen to expand my knowledge.
> 
> Your cooperation would be greatly appreciated; although I don't men to intrude on anybody's precious time. So please don't feel under any obligation. I want to learn JFW as well at some point as I said. I don't want to be labelled as just one of those visually abled people or, as others often refer to them (although I really dislike the term) sighted people, who won't put themselves out to try and find out how those less fortunate than they are work.
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> Lynne
> 
> 
> =======================================
> 
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From juanitatighan at gmail.com  Sun Oct 23 02:47:08 2011
From: juanitatighan at gmail.com (Jane)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2011 21:47:08 -0400
Subject: NVDA;
	From The Perspective Of A Visually Abled Person Wishing To Learn?
In-Reply-To: <8F410146-0F1A-49D0-8A9A-24AAFBAB9953@mac-access.net>
References: <93EAF5DA-34DB-4F1D-9ED9-C0DAD10046A0@mac-access.net>
	<4A9D1828-2C68-40BD-BC83-D1FC24BD932B@gmail.com>
	<8812AA4A-7404-4F99-BE9E-4D165CFC6CC6@mac-access.net>
	<8F410146-0F1A-49D0-8A9A-24AAFBAB9953@mac-access.net>
Message-ID: <BEC60A2C-C2A4-4547-8EE6-8C4D6A780FCC@gmail.com>

Well, uh, check the other account for the reply, I just replied without checkng. :)

Jane




On Oct 22, 2011, at 9:44 PM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:

> Oopse! Sorry Jane; I forgot to change accounts.
> 
> Lynne
> 
> 
> On 23 Oct 2011, at 02:44, Gordon Smith wrote:
> 
> Hello Jane
> 
> I am very grateful for your offer; but I'm afraid we don't use Skype. I am a little nervous of those chat utilities ever since an unfortunate event which occurred last year. Whilst I'm sure everybody here is absolutely genuine and I have absolutely no doubt of motivation, I am not comfortable with the concept.
> 
> If there's any means by which we could discuss it via private email Jane, I would be more than happy to do that.
> 
> Please don't think I'm being difficult and, of course, if you'd prefer not to do it that way I'll more than understand. But I'm sure we could fix something up between us.
> 
> Thank you very kindly for the offer.
> 
> Lynne
> 
> On 23 Oct 2011, at 02:39, Jane wrote:
> 
> Hello, Lynne.
> 
> would you be interested in Skyping sometie tomorrow? I'm on US Eastern time.  Just a thought  I can at leasst try to give you pointers and tips.  Email me off list if you want and we can set something up.
> 
> Jane
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Oct 22, 2011, at 7:29 PM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:
> 
>> Hello everybody
>> 
>> This could turn into a bit of an essay so, if it does, then I apologise.
>> 
>> Would somebody be willing to give me some guidance in the use of NVDA please? I suppose this is kind of a stupid request; but believe it or not I have never really seriously played around with, let alone used a screen-reader under Microsoft Windows and when I tried using Window-Eyes version 7.5.1 not so very long ago, it came as a major shock to me because so much of the on-screen content was so radically different in appearance to how it is without a screen-reader. That is especially true of website and HTML viewing, of course. With Window-Eyes running, all you essentially get is a vertical sheet which contains your elements. Some of the elements even look different; in as much as that they lose their graphical properties and sometimes colours. Links generally look the same; unless their properties have been enhanced by the designer which is perfect possible and often the case. Window-Eyes seems to verbalise such events as "Link Image". Usually, although not always, a link
> a
>> ppears visually as a coloured piece of text with an underlined background. That depends upon the designer and I'm guessing that the colour and the properties of the background wouldn't matter; it should still be recognised as a link by its code.
>> 
>> Im quite used to using a website with VoiceOver resident under Mac OS X; but in that environment the appearance of the web content doesn't change when you disable VoiceOver. The actual appearance is retained and although sometimes VoiceOver does funny things with it, it's usual to find things are absolutely identical with and without VoiceOver.
>> 
>> I was warned a long time ago to expect the kind of behaviour I see under Windows; but I still had no idea it would be quite so radically different. Now I have an understanding as to why those without vision have so much trouble sometimes following instructions given to them by those of us with vision when working under Windows. The practices and procedures are so radically different, as are the appearance of many, if not all screens.
>> 
>> So, all that having been said; I would like to try NVDA now that we have Gordon's synthetic girlfriend from Mac OS X, (Rachel) imported. Incidentally, for those of you who understand what he means by this, (which I didn't at first), Gordon tells me that Infovox iVox under Windows uses a SAPI 4.0 engine rather than the latest SAPI 5.0. I don't know whether that matters; she seems to work alright even under Window-Eyes. :)
>> 
>> Anyway, to get back to the original point. Would anybody be willing, off list if you prefer, to give me some guidance as to how to use NVDA? Gordon is helping me with Window-Eyes, but he doesn't have the experience with NVDA to feel comfortable trying to teach me. It would be a bit like a student trying to teach a teacher in school; which really wouldn't work. I plan to broaden my IT knowledge of the Windows environment; and I plan to download the latest JFW demo. I want to increase my understanding and knowledge as to how you work when you have a visual impairment under Windows. I've done this under OSX and I'm keen to expand my knowledge.
>> 
>> Your cooperation would be greatly appreciated; although I don't men to intrude on anybody's precious time. So please don't feel under any obligation. I want to learn JFW as well at some point as I said. I don't want to be labelled as just one of those visually abled people or, as others often refer to them (although I really dislike the term) sighted people, who won't put themselves out to try and find out how those less fortunate than they are work.
>> 
>> Thank you.
>> 
>> Lynne
>> 
>> 
>> =======================================
>> 
>> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free
>> 
>> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat
>> 
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>> 
>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html
>> 
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>> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
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>> 
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> 
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> 
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> 
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From juanitatighan at gmail.com  Sun Oct 23 02:46:38 2011
From: juanitatighan at gmail.com (Jane)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2011 21:46:38 -0400
Subject: NVDA;
	From The Perspective Of A Visually Abled Person Wishing To Learn?
In-Reply-To: <8812AA4A-7404-4F99-BE9E-4D165CFC6CC6@mac-access.net>
References: <93EAF5DA-34DB-4F1D-9ED9-C0DAD10046A0@mac-access.net>
	<4A9D1828-2C68-40BD-BC83-D1FC24BD932B@gmail.com>
	<8812AA4A-7404-4F99-BE9E-4D165CFC6CC6@mac-access.net>
Message-ID: <E2E982DE-9BA1-4FFB-9B3B-9C94ACCE5A4F@gmail.com>

Hi, Lynne.  My email is

juanitatighan at gmail.com

I understand about not wanting to use Skype. Heck, I have been trying to get my family on it for years and they won't even try it; you did and got burned, and I'm sorry that happened.  Email me anytime and I'll answer as quickly and as best as I am able.

Jane






On Oct 22, 2011, at 9:44 PM, Gordon Smith wrote:

> Hello Jane
> 
> I am very grateful for your offer; but I'm afraid we don't use Skype. I am a little nervous of those chat utilities ever since an unfortunate event which occurred last year. Whilst I'm sure everybody here is absolutely genuine and I have absolutely no doubt of motivation, I am not comfortable with the concept.
> 
> If there's any means by which we could discuss it via private email Jane, I would be more than happy to do that.
> 
> Please don't think I'm being difficult and, of course, if you'd prefer not to do it that way I'll more than understand. But I'm sure we could fix something up between us.
> 
> Thank you very kindly for the offer.
> 
> Lynne
> 
> On 23 Oct 2011, at 02:39, Jane wrote:
> 
> Hello, Lynne.
> 
> would you be interested in Skyping sometie tomorrow? I'm on US Eastern time.  Just a thought  I can at leasst try to give you pointers and tips.  Email me off list if you want and we can set something up.
> 
> Jane
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Oct 22, 2011, at 7:29 PM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:
> 
>> Hello everybody
>> 
>> This could turn into a bit of an essay so, if it does, then I apologise.
>> 
>> Would somebody be willing to give me some guidance in the use of NVDA please? I suppose this is kind of a stupid request; but believe it or not I have never really seriously played around with, let alone used a screen-reader under Microsoft Windows and when I tried using Window-Eyes version 7.5.1 not so very long ago, it came as a major shock to me because so much of the on-screen content was so radically different in appearance to how it is without a screen-reader. That is especially true of website and HTML viewing, of course. With Window-Eyes running, all you essentially get is a vertical sheet which contains your elements. Some of the elements even look different; in as much as that they lose their graphical properties and sometimes colours. Links generally look the same; unless their properties have been enhanced by the designer which is perfect possible and often the case. Window-Eyes seems to verbalise such events as "Link Image". Usually, although not always, a link
> a
>> ppears visually as a coloured piece of text with an underlined background. That depends upon the designer and I'm guessing that the colour and the properties of the background wouldn't matter; it should still be recognised as a link by its code.
>> 
>> Im quite used to using a website with VoiceOver resident under Mac OS X; but in that environment the appearance of the web content doesn't change when you disable VoiceOver. The actual appearance is retained and although sometimes VoiceOver does funny things with it, it's usual to find things are absolutely identical with and without VoiceOver.
>> 
>> I was warned a long time ago to expect the kind of behaviour I see under Windows; but I still had no idea it would be quite so radically different. Now I have an understanding as to why those without vision have so much trouble sometimes following instructions given to them by those of us with vision when working under Windows. The practices and procedures are so radically different, as are the appearance of many, if not all screens.
>> 
>> So, all that having been said; I would like to try NVDA now that we have Gordon's synthetic girlfriend from Mac OS X, (Rachel) imported. Incidentally, for those of you who understand what he means by this, (which I didn't at first), Gordon tells me that Infovox iVox under Windows uses a SAPI 4.0 engine rather than the latest SAPI 5.0. I don't know whether that matters; she seems to work alright even under Window-Eyes. :)
>> 
>> Anyway, to get back to the original point. Would anybody be willing, off list if you prefer, to give me some guidance as to how to use NVDA? Gordon is helping me with Window-Eyes, but he doesn't have the experience with NVDA to feel comfortable trying to teach me. It would be a bit like a student trying to teach a teacher in school; which really wouldn't work. I plan to broaden my IT knowledge of the Windows environment; and I plan to download the latest JFW demo. I want to increase my understanding and knowledge as to how you work when you have a visual impairment under Windows. I've done this under OSX and I'm keen to expand my knowledge.
>> 
>> Your cooperation would be greatly appreciated; although I don't men to intrude on anybody's precious time. So please don't feel under any obligation. I want to learn JFW as well at some point as I said. I don't want to be labelled as just one of those visually abled people or, as others often refer to them (although I really dislike the term) sighted people, who won't put themselves out to try and find out how those less fortunate than they are work.
>> 
>> Thank you.
>> 
>> Lynne
>> 
>> 
>> =======================================
>> 
>> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free
>> 
>> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat
>> 
>> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites:
>> 
>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html
>> 
>> Or:
>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat at techno-chat.net>
>> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat at techno-chat.net/maillist.xml>
>> 
>> ---------------------------------------
> 
> 
> =======================================
> 
> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free
> 
> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat
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> 
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> 
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> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
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> 
> ---------------------------------------
> 
> 
> =======================================
> 
> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free
> 
> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
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> 
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> ---------------------------------------


From gordon at mac-access.net  Sun Oct 23 02:54:45 2011
From: gordon at mac-access.net (Gordon Smith)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2011 02:54:45 +0100
Subject: NVDA;
	From The Perspective Of A Visually Abled Person Wishing To Learn?
In-Reply-To: <BEC60A2C-C2A4-4547-8EE6-8C4D6A780FCC@gmail.com>
References: <93EAF5DA-34DB-4F1D-9ED9-C0DAD10046A0@mac-access.net>
	<4A9D1828-2C68-40BD-BC83-D1FC24BD932B@gmail.com>
	<8812AA4A-7404-4F99-BE9E-4D165CFC6CC6@mac-access.net>
	<8F410146-0F1A-49D0-8A9A-24AAFBAB9953@mac-access.net>
	<BEC60A2C-C2A4-4547-8EE6-8C4D6A780FCC@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <27E4B429-9CEF-4B95-A14F-A9497C6C633C@mac-access.net>

Hello Jane

On 23 Oct 2011, at 02:47, Jane wrote:

Well, uh, check the other account for the reply, I just replied without checkng. :)

No problem; but I don't see it in Gordon's account yet.

I will check again now and, if it's alright, I'll write you privately.

Lynne

Jane




On Oct 22, 2011, at 9:44 PM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:

> Oopse! Sorry Jane; I forgot to change accounts.
> 
> Lynne
> 
> 
> On 23 Oct 2011, at 02:44, Gordon Smith wrote:
> 
> Hello Jane
> 
> I am very grateful for your offer; but I'm afraid we don't use Skype. I am a little nervous of those chat utilities ever since an unfortunate event which occurred last year. Whilst I'm sure everybody here is absolutely genuine and I have absolutely no doubt of motivation, I am not comfortable with the concept.
> 
> If there's any means by which we could discuss it via private email Jane, I would be more than happy to do that.
> 
> Please don't think I'm being difficult and, of course, if you'd prefer not to do it that way I'll more than understand. But I'm sure we could fix something up between us.
> 
> Thank you very kindly for the offer.
> 
> Lynne
> 
> On 23 Oct 2011, at 02:39, Jane wrote:
> 
> Hello, Lynne.
> 
> would you be interested in Skyping sometie tomorrow? I'm on US Eastern time.  Just a thought  I can at leasst try to give you pointers and tips.  Email me off list if you want and we can set something up.
> 
> Jane
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Oct 22, 2011, at 7:29 PM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:
> 
>> Hello everybody
>> 
>> This could turn into a bit of an essay so, if it does, then I apologise.
>> 
>> Would somebody be willing to give me some guidance in the use of NVDA please? I suppose this is kind of a stupid request; but believe it or not I have never really seriously played around with, let alone used a screen-reader under Microsoft Windows and when I tried using Window-Eyes version 7.5.1 not so very long ago, it came as a major shock to me because so much of the on-screen content was so radically different in appearance to how it is without a screen-reader. That is especially true of website and HTML viewing, of course. With Window-Eyes running, all you essentially get is a vertical sheet which contains your elements. Some of the elements even look different; in as much as that they lose their graphical properties and sometimes colours. Links generally look the same; unless their properties have been enhanced by the designer which is perfect possible and often the case. Window-Eyes seems to verbalise such events as "Link Image". Usually, although not always, a lin
k
> a
>> ppears visually as a coloured piece of text with an underlined background. That depends upon the designer and I'm guessing that the colour and the properties of the background wouldn't matter; it should still be recognised as a link by its code.
>> 
>> Im quite used to using a website with VoiceOver resident under Mac OS X; but in that environment the appearance of the web content doesn't change when you disable VoiceOver. The actual appearance is retained and although sometimes VoiceOver does funny things with it, it's usual to find things are absolutely identical with and without VoiceOver.
>> 
>> I was warned a long time ago to expect the kind of behaviour I see under Windows; but I still had no idea it would be quite so radically different. Now I have an understanding as to why those without vision have so much trouble sometimes following instructions given to them by those of us with vision when working under Windows. The practices and procedures are so radically different, as are the appearance of many, if not all screens.
>> 
>> So, all that having been said; I would like to try NVDA now that we have Gordon's synthetic girlfriend from Mac OS X, (Rachel) imported. Incidentally, for those of you who understand what he means by this, (which I didn't at first), Gordon tells me that Infovox iVox under Windows uses a SAPI 4.0 engine rather than the latest SAPI 5.0. I don't know whether that matters; she seems to work alright even under Window-Eyes. :)
>> 
>> Anyway, to get back to the original point. Would anybody be willing, off list if you prefer, to give me some guidance as to how to use NVDA? Gordon is helping me with Window-Eyes, but he doesn't have the experience with NVDA to feel comfortable trying to teach me. It would be a bit like a student trying to teach a teacher in school; which really wouldn't work. I plan to broaden my IT knowledge of the Windows environment; and I plan to download the latest JFW demo. I want to increase my understanding and knowledge as to how you work when you have a visual impairment under Windows. I've done this under OSX and I'm keen to expand my knowledge.
>> 
>> Your cooperation would be greatly appreciated; although I don't men to intrude on anybody's precious time. So please don't feel under any obligation. I want to learn JFW as well at some point as I said. I don't want to be labelled as just one of those visually abled people or, as others often refer to them (although I really dislike the term) sighted people, who won't put themselves out to try and find out how those less fortunate than they are work.
>> 
>> Thank you.
>> 
>> Lynne
>> 
>> 
>> =======================================
>> 
>> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free
>> 
>> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat
>> 
>> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites:
>> 
>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html
>> 
>> Or:
>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat at techno-chat.net>
>> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat at techno-chat.net/maillist.xml>
>> 
>> ---------------------------------------
> 
> 
> =======================================
> 
> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free
> 
> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat
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> 
> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html
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> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
> <http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat at techno-chat.net/maillist.xml>
> 
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> 
> 
> =======================================
> 
> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free
> 
> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat
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> 
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> 
> Or:
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> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
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From martin at x.it.okstate.edu  Sun Oct 23 03:51:27 2011
From: martin at x.it.okstate.edu (Martin McCormick)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2011 21:51:27 -0500
Subject: Keyspan USB to Serial Adapter 
Message-ID: <201110230251.p9N2pRan037891@x.it.okstate.edu>

Well, let's try this from another angle.
"Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith" writes:
> What we need I think is some sort of diagnostics software. Or some way of 
> forcing data to be sent to a serial line. We know of the command line 
> syntax to dump a file to the serial port under DOS but whether that works 
> under the Windows command line environment is another matter entirely.

There are still some vestiges of DOS in Windows and the command
prompt as in

C:\>

is one of them. Get yourself a copy of MS-Kermit. It costs you
nothing and is one of the most wonderful open-source projects
that ever existed. It was developed at Columbia University in
New York City and says so in its opening screen banner.

	The project has ended, but the legacy lives on because
it was in use for so many years around the world.

	Kermit is a file transfer protocol that was developed to
allow people to transfer files over modems and all the nasty
stuff that happens on noisy phone lines, etc.

	Along with that file transfer protocol which you
probably will not need to use comes a terminal emulator that I
used every day from around 1990 until a couple of years ago.

	This is the part you can use as a diagnostic tool.

	Since kermit was built to run under DOS, you should
probably launch it from the command prompt. The file is
kermit.exe and you will get the banner that gives the copyright
information and a few other things.

	You should also find mskermit.doc which is a fairly
decent manual as to how to use it.

	There will be a lot of stuff in there but let me
condense it down to the important things that apply to your
specific issue.

	You can type commands from the welcome screen and one
you will need starts with the word

show

followed by one of several things you want to know about

show comm

and show line

tell you a number of things about your serial port as it looks
to kermit. You'll see if the serial line appears to be ready for
use or not.

	I don't have DOS running handy right now, but there is a
companion version of kermit for Unix systems that is very
similar so here is an example. I ran this on a system that is
presently connected to nothing on its serial port so you see:

C-Kermit 8.0.211, 10 Apr 2004, for Linux
 Copyright (C) 1985, 2004,
  Trustees of Columbia University in the City of New York.
Type ? or HELP for help.
(/home/martin/) C-Kermit>show comm

Communications Parameters:
 Line: /dev/ttyS0, speed: 9600, mode: local, modem: generic
 Parity: none, stop-bits: (default) (8N1)
 Duplex: full, flow: rts/cts, handshake: none
 Carrier-watch: off, close-on-disconnect: off
 Lockfile: /var/lock/LCK..ttyS0
 Terminal bytesize: 8, escape character: 28 (^\)

 Carrier Detect      (CD):  Off
 Dataset Ready       (DSR): Off
 Clear To Send       (CTS): Off
 Ring Indicator      (RI):  Off
 Data Terminal Ready (DTR): On
 Request To Send     (RTS): On

Type SHOW DIAL to see DIAL-related items.
Type SHOW MODEM to see modem-related items.

(/home/martin/) C-Kermit>

	When you run MSKermit, you will see slightly different
information in the banner, but it's very close and you do see
the serial line parameters that are so important.

	What you can do is run kermit and set the line to comm3
and then 

show comm and see what it tells you. Try it with the embosser
connected and then again with it disconnected. See if any of the
settings such as CTS change.

	You can then type the letter c and hit Enter to go in to
terminal mode and you now are typing in to a blank screen but
your key strokes go right out the serial port and in to whatever
it is connected to if the ports are complimentary such as DTE
talking to a DCE device.

	I don't know if you can run 32-bit binaries on a 64-bit
system, but maybe there is a 64-bit version of MSKermit out
there. I haven't looked.

	This is probably enough for now, but if you can get
ms-kermit to run under Windows, you will have a good serial
diagnostic program for free that tells you a lot.

From lynne at mac-access.net  Sun Oct 23 10:17:36 2011
From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2011 10:17:36 +0100
Subject: Diskeeper 2011
Message-ID: <0DAEA1AC-092B-487D-BEA7-A3B1AE22CB31@mac-access.net>

Hello everybody

I just remembered that we're entitled to a free upgrade to this product; so I downloaded the downloader. Before I install it on our NetBook, (which is now working again, by the way), is anybody else using this version of Diskeeper and, if so, how does it work with Rollback if you're using that as well?

I know that Dane was using this combo a while ago but I'm not sure of versions.

Also, has anybody tried their virtual machine application V-Losity?


Lynne


From grtdane at internode.on.net  Sun Oct 23 10:35:22 2011
From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2011 20:35:22 +1100
Subject: Diskeeper 2011
In-Reply-To: <0DAEA1AC-092B-487D-BEA7-A3B1AE22CB31@mac-access.net>
References: <0DAEA1AC-092B-487D-BEA7-A3B1AE22CB31@mac-access.net>
Message-ID: <EF941A09-BCBD-48A0-8683-7FAD71B88B68@internode.on.net>

Yes, you can use Diskeeper 2011 and Rollback together, I have done this.

You'll need to search the Rollback knowledge base for "Diskeeper", there's an article which explains how to set up the command line utility in Rollback.

The idea is that DK remains disabled, every time you wish to defragment your hard drive you run the command line which resets the Rollback baseline, disables Rollback etc thus allowing you to run DK and let it perform its automatic functions such as intelewrite.

You then type in another command line to enable Rollback again.

Dk and Rollback cannot affectively work together - that is to say they cannot be run together at the same time - as both use a similar technology, Rollback uses it for snapshots and DK uses it for its intelewrite service so there's bound to be some conflict and something's going to get pretty upset in the end, that is a hard drive <smile>.


On 23/10/2011, at 8:17 PM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:

> Hello everybody
> 
> I just remembered that we're entitled to a free upgrade to this product; so I downloaded the downloader. Before I install it on our NetBook, (which is now working again, by the way), is anybody else using this version of Diskeeper and, if so, how does it work with Rollback if you're using that as well?
> 
> I know that Dane was using this combo a while ago but I'm not sure of versions.
> 
> Also, has anybody tried their virtual machine application V-Losity?
> 
> 
> Lynne
> 
> 
> =======================================
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> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free
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From lynne at mac-access.net  Sun Oct 23 11:13:15 2011
From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2011 11:13:15 +0100
Subject: Diskeeper 2011
In-Reply-To: <EF941A09-BCBD-48A0-8683-7FAD71B88B68@internode.on.net>
References: <0DAEA1AC-092B-487D-BEA7-A3B1AE22CB31@mac-access.net>
	<EF941A09-BCBD-48A0-8683-7FAD71B88B68@internode.on.net>
Message-ID: <FBCF7D2A-60C9-4064-8F3B-94EBEC5FF7FB@mac-access.net>

hello Dane

Yes; i understand the principles. I have just downloaded the downloader; but it seems I have to go into Windows to run that to get the main programme.

I did do this search actually on the Horizon Datasystems site; but it came up with Zero Results when I entered "Diskeeper" into the search engine.

Maybe I should have searched for Disk Defragmentation or something similar.

Lynne


On 23 Oct 2011, at 10:35, Dane Trethowan wrote:

Yes, you can use Diskeeper 2011 and Rollback together, I have done this.

You'll need to search the Rollback knowledge base for "Diskeeper", there's an article which explains how to set up the command line utility in Rollback.

The idea is that DK remains disabled, every time you wish to defragment your hard drive you run the command line which resets the Rollback baseline, disables Rollback etc thus allowing you to run DK and let it perform its automatic functions such as intelewrite.

You then type in another command line to enable Rollback again.

Dk and Rollback cannot affectively work together - that is to say they cannot be run together at the same time - as both use a similar technology, Rollback uses it for snapshots and DK uses it for its intelewrite service so there's bound to be some conflict and something's going to get pretty upset in the end, that is a hard drive <smile>.


On 23/10/2011, at 8:17 PM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:

> Hello everybody
> 
> I just remembered that we're entitled to a free upgrade to this product; so I downloaded the downloader. Before I install it on our NetBook, (which is now working again, by the way), is anybody else using this version of Diskeeper and, if so, how does it work with Rollback if you're using that as well?
> 
> I know that Dane was using this combo a while ago but I'm not sure of versions.
> 
> Also, has anybody tried their virtual machine application V-Losity?
> 
> 
> Lynne
> 
> 
> =======================================
> 
> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free
> 
> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat
> 
> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites:
> 
> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html
> 
> Or:
> <http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat at techno-chat.net>
> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
> <http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat at techno-chat.net/maillist.xml>
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---------------------------------------


From grtdane at internode.on.net  Sun Oct 23 11:15:13 2011
From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2011 21:15:13 +1100
Subject: Diskeeper 2011
In-Reply-To: <FBCF7D2A-60C9-4064-8F3B-94EBEC5FF7FB@mac-access.net>
References: <0DAEA1AC-092B-487D-BEA7-A3B1AE22CB31@mac-access.net>
	<EF941A09-BCBD-48A0-8683-7FAD71B88B68@internode.on.net>
	<FBCF7D2A-60C9-4064-8F3B-94EBEC5FF7FB@mac-access.net>
Message-ID: <BE33D1AA-64ED-4DDB-8C65-28F815183CE4@internode.on.net>

I think I found what you're looking for by typing in defragment or something like that.


On 23/10/2011, at 9:13 PM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:

> hello Dane
> 
> Yes; i understand the principles. I have just downloaded the downloader; but it seems I have to go into Windows to run that to get the main programme.
> 
> I did do this search actually on the Horizon Datasystems site; but it came up with Zero Results when I entered "Diskeeper" into the search engine.
> 
> Maybe I should have searched for Disk Defragmentation or something similar.
> 
> Lynne
> 
> 
> On 23 Oct 2011, at 10:35, Dane Trethowan wrote:
> 
> Yes, you can use Diskeeper 2011 and Rollback together, I have done this.
> 
> You'll need to search the Rollback knowledge base for "Diskeeper", there's an article which explains how to set up the command line utility in Rollback.
> 
> The idea is that DK remains disabled, every time you wish to defragment your hard drive you run the command line which resets the Rollback baseline, disables Rollback etc thus allowing you to run DK and let it perform its automatic functions such as intelewrite.
> 
> You then type in another command line to enable Rollback again.
> 
> Dk and Rollback cannot affectively work together - that is to say they cannot be run together at the same time - as both use a similar technology, Rollback uses it for snapshots and DK uses it for its intelewrite service so there's bound to be some conflict and something's going to get pretty upset in the end, that is a hard drive <smile>.
> 
> 
> On 23/10/2011, at 8:17 PM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:
> 
>> Hello everybody
>> 
>> I just remembered that we're entitled to a free upgrade to this product; so I downloaded the downloader. Before I install it on our NetBook, (which is now working again, by the way), is anybody else using this version of Diskeeper and, if so, how does it work with Rollback if you're using that as well?
>> 
>> I know that Dane was using this combo a while ago but I'm not sure of versions.
>> 
>> Also, has anybody tried their virtual machine application V-Losity?
>> 
>> 
>> Lynne
>> 
>> 
>> =======================================
>> 
>> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free
>> 
>> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat
>> 
>> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites:
>> 
>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html
>> 
>> Or:
>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat at techno-chat.net>
>> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat at techno-chat.net/maillist.xml>
>> 
>> ---------------------------------------
> 
> 
> =======================================
> 
> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free
> 
> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
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> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
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> 
> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
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From gordon at mac-access.net  Sun Oct 23 11:21:51 2011
From: gordon at mac-access.net (Gordon Smith)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2011 11:21:51 +0100
Subject: Keyspan USB to Serial Adapter 
In-Reply-To: <201110230251.p9N2pRan037891@x.it.okstate.edu>
References: <201110230251.p9N2pRan037891@x.it.okstate.edu>
Message-ID: <5FBFEF5E-790C-4DFA-B31B-5389E60BDA45@mac-access.net>

Hello Martin

On 23 Oct 2011, at 03:51, Martin McCormick wrote:

Well, let's try this from another angle.

OK, I will have a look around to see if I can find this. I'm told that the 9600 BPS 8/N/1 configuration is the default setting for the serial port and that seems to be confirmed when I look at the properties of the port.

So I'll go and look for this as Gordon's going to have another look at the problem this afternoon. He's got a mountain of transcription work outstanding for me and unless we can get the embosser to work it is going to take him hours this week pressing the keys on his newly fixed Perkins Brailler.

Lynne


From lynne at mac-access.net  Sun Oct 23 11:22:53 2011
From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2011 11:22:53 +0100
Subject: Diskeeper 2011
In-Reply-To: <BE33D1AA-64ED-4DDB-8C65-28F815183CE4@internode.on.net>
References: <0DAEA1AC-092B-487D-BEA7-A3B1AE22CB31@mac-access.net>
	<EF941A09-BCBD-48A0-8683-7FAD71B88B68@internode.on.net>
	<FBCF7D2A-60C9-4064-8F3B-94EBEC5FF7FB@mac-access.net>
	<BE33D1AA-64ED-4DDB-8C65-28F815183CE4@internode.on.net>
Message-ID: <BC87D3E9-5F13-4EBD-AA9F-4334F5462540@mac-access.net>

Hello Dane

I keep forgetting to change accounts. :) OK, I will try that.

Lynne

On 23 Oct 2011, at 11:15, Dane Trethowan wrote:

I think I found what you're looking for by typing in defragment or something like that.


On 23/10/2011, at 9:13 PM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:

> hello Dane
> 
> Yes; i understand the principles. I have just downloaded the downloader; but it seems I have to go into Windows to run that to get the main programme.
> 
> I did do this search actually on the Horizon Datasystems site; but it came up with Zero Results when I entered "Diskeeper" into the search engine.
> 
> Maybe I should have searched for Disk Defragmentation or something similar.
> 
> Lynne
> 
> 
> On 23 Oct 2011, at 10:35, Dane Trethowan wrote:
> 
> Yes, you can use Diskeeper 2011 and Rollback together, I have done this.
> 
> You'll need to search the Rollback knowledge base for "Diskeeper", there's an article which explains how to set up the command line utility in Rollback.
> 
> The idea is that DK remains disabled, every time you wish to defragment your hard drive you run the command line which resets the Rollback baseline, disables Rollback etc thus allowing you to run DK and let it perform its automatic functions such as intelewrite.
> 
> You then type in another command line to enable Rollback again.
> 
> Dk and Rollback cannot affectively work together - that is to say they cannot be run together at the same time - as both use a similar technology, Rollback uses it for snapshots and DK uses it for its intelewrite service so there's bound to be some conflict and something's going to get pretty upset in the end, that is a hard drive <smile>.
> 
> 
> On 23/10/2011, at 8:17 PM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:
> 
>> Hello everybody
>> 
>> I just remembered that we're entitled to a free upgrade to this product; so I downloaded the downloader. Before I install it on our NetBook, (which is now working again, by the way), is anybody else using this version of Diskeeper and, if so, how does it work with Rollback if you're using that as well?
>> 
>> I know that Dane was using this combo a while ago but I'm not sure of versions.
>> 
>> Also, has anybody tried their virtual machine application V-Losity?
>> 
>> 
>> Lynne
>> 
>> 
>> =======================================
>> 
>> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free
>> 
>> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat
>> 
>> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites:
>> 
>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html
>> 
>> Or:
>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat at techno-chat.net>
>> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat at techno-chat.net/maillist.xml>
>> 
>> ---------------------------------------
> 
> 
> =======================================
> 
> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free
> 
> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat
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> 
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> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
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> 
> 
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> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free
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> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
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---------------------------------------


From grtdane at internode.on.net  Sun Oct 23 11:26:51 2011
From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2011 21:26:51 +1100
Subject: Diskeeper 2011
In-Reply-To: <BC87D3E9-5F13-4EBD-AA9F-4334F5462540@mac-access.net>
References: <0DAEA1AC-092B-487D-BEA7-A3B1AE22CB31@mac-access.net>
	<EF941A09-BCBD-48A0-8683-7FAD71B88B68@internode.on.net>
	<FBCF7D2A-60C9-4064-8F3B-94EBEC5FF7FB@mac-access.net>
	<BE33D1AA-64ED-4DDB-8C65-28F815183CE4@internode.on.net>
	<BC87D3E9-5F13-4EBD-AA9F-4334F5462540@mac-access.net>
Message-ID: <CAD6C16F-535C-4969-84C7-48B9F3DA302A@internode.on.net>

I remember using this term now as it struck me that there are various disk defragmentation applications around such as Diskeeper, Perfect Disc etc.


On 23/10/2011, at 9:22 PM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:

> Hello Dane
> 
> I keep forgetting to change accounts. :) OK, I will try that.
> 
> Lynne
> 
> On 23 Oct 2011, at 11:15, Dane Trethowan wrote:
> 
> I think I found what you're looking for by typing in defragment or something like that.
> 
> 
> On 23/10/2011, at 9:13 PM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:
> 
>> hello Dane
>> 
>> Yes; i understand the principles. I have just downloaded the downloader; but it seems I have to go into Windows to run that to get the main programme.
>> 
>> I did do this search actually on the Horizon Datasystems site; but it came up with Zero Results when I entered "Diskeeper" into the search engine.
>> 
>> Maybe I should have searched for Disk Defragmentation or something similar.
>> 
>> Lynne
>> 
>> 
>> On 23 Oct 2011, at 10:35, Dane Trethowan wrote:
>> 
>> Yes, you can use Diskeeper 2011 and Rollback together, I have done this.
>> 
>> You'll need to search the Rollback knowledge base for "Diskeeper", there's an article which explains how to set up the command line utility in Rollback.
>> 
>> The idea is that DK remains disabled, every time you wish to defragment your hard drive you run the command line which resets the Rollback baseline, disables Rollback etc thus allowing you to run DK and let it perform its automatic functions such as intelewrite.
>> 
>> You then type in another command line to enable Rollback again.
>> 
>> Dk and Rollback cannot affectively work together - that is to say they cannot be run together at the same time - as both use a similar technology, Rollback uses it for snapshots and DK uses it for its intelewrite service so there's bound to be some conflict and something's going to get pretty upset in the end, that is a hard drive <smile>.
>> 
>> 
>> On 23/10/2011, at 8:17 PM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:
>> 
>>> Hello everybody
>>> 
>>> I just remembered that we're entitled to a free upgrade to this product; so I downloaded the downloader. Before I install it on our NetBook, (which is now working again, by the way), is anybody else using this version of Diskeeper and, if so, how does it work with Rollback if you're using that as well?
>>> 
>>> I know that Dane was using this combo a while ago but I'm not sure of versions.
>>> 
>>> Also, has anybody tried their virtual machine application V-Losity?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Lynne
>>> 
>>> 
>>> =======================================
>>> 
>>> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free
>>> 
>>> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
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>> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
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>> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
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> 
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> 
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From grtdane at internode.on.net  Sun Oct 23 11:31:05 2011
From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2011 21:31:05 +1100
Subject: Diskeeper 2011
In-Reply-To: <BC87D3E9-5F13-4EBD-AA9F-4334F5462540@mac-access.net>
References: <0DAEA1AC-092B-487D-BEA7-A3B1AE22CB31@mac-access.net>
	<EF941A09-BCBD-48A0-8683-7FAD71B88B68@internode.on.net>
	<FBCF7D2A-60C9-4064-8F3B-94EBEC5FF7FB@mac-access.net>
	<BE33D1AA-64ED-4DDB-8C65-28F815183CE4@internode.on.net>
	<BC87D3E9-5F13-4EBD-AA9F-4334F5462540@mac-access.net>
Message-ID: <FA2FE875-6A72-42E8-9DF3-383926B99FC9@internode.on.net>

Changing tac a little here, I'm most interested in some of the new features DK 2011 Premier Pro offers in particular the option which allows the user to set DK's defragmentation level.

For example by default DK only defragments those files critical to system performance now rather than the whole drive, you can change this setting.

I'm curious to know how DK determines which and what files are critical to system performance, I'm not saying that its all rubbish but I reckon there'd be a fair amount of monitoring and calculating involved in this process, certainly it saves wear on the mechanics of a hard drive <smile>.


On 23/10/2011, at 9:22 PM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:

> Hello Dane
> 
> I keep forgetting to change accounts. :) OK, I will try that.
> 
> Lynne
> 
> On 23 Oct 2011, at 11:15, Dane Trethowan wrote:
> 
> I think I found what you're looking for by typing in defragment or something like that.
> 
> 
> On 23/10/2011, at 9:13 PM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:
> 
>> hello Dane
>> 
>> Yes; i understand the principles. I have just downloaded the downloader; but it seems I have to go into Windows to run that to get the main programme.
>> 
>> I did do this search actually on the Horizon Datasystems site; but it came up with Zero Results when I entered "Diskeeper" into the search engine.
>> 
>> Maybe I should have searched for Disk Defragmentation or something similar.
>> 
>> Lynne
>> 
>> 
>> On 23 Oct 2011, at 10:35, Dane Trethowan wrote:
>> 
>> Yes, you can use Diskeeper 2011 and Rollback together, I have done this.
>> 
>> You'll need to search the Rollback knowledge base for "Diskeeper", there's an article which explains how to set up the command line utility in Rollback.
>> 
>> The idea is that DK remains disabled, every time you wish to defragment your hard drive you run the command line which resets the Rollback baseline, disables Rollback etc thus allowing you to run DK and let it perform its automatic functions such as intelewrite.
>> 
>> You then type in another command line to enable Rollback again.
>> 
>> Dk and Rollback cannot affectively work together - that is to say they cannot be run together at the same time - as both use a similar technology, Rollback uses it for snapshots and DK uses it for its intelewrite service so there's bound to be some conflict and something's going to get pretty upset in the end, that is a hard drive <smile>.
>> 
>> 
>> On 23/10/2011, at 8:17 PM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:
>> 
>>> Hello everybody
>>> 
>>> I just remembered that we're entitled to a free upgrade to this product; so I downloaded the downloader. Before I install it on our NetBook, (which is now working again, by the way), is anybody else using this version of Diskeeper and, if so, how does it work with Rollback if you're using that as well?
>>> 
>>> I know that Dane was using this combo a while ago but I'm not sure of versions.
>>> 
>>> Also, has anybody tried their virtual machine application V-Losity?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Lynne
>>> 
>>> 
>>> =======================================
>>> 
>>> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free
>>> 
>>> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
>>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat
>>> 
>>> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites:
>>> 
>>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html
>>> 
>>> Or:
>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat at techno-chat.net>
>>> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat at techno-chat.net/maillist.xml>
>>> 
>>> ---------------------------------------
>> 
>> 
>> =======================================
>> 
>> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free
>> 
>> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat
>> 
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>> 
>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html
>> 
>> Or:
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>> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
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>> 
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>> 
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>> 
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>> 
>> Or:
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>> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat at techno-chat.net/maillist.xml>
>> 
>> ---------------------------------------
> 
> 
> =======================================
> 
> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free
> 
> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat
> 
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> 
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> 
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> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
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> ---------------------------------------
> 
> 
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> 
> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
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> 
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> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
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> 
> ---------------------------------------


From grtdane at internode.on.net  Sun Oct 23 11:33:26 2011
From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2011 21:33:26 +1100
Subject: Diskeeper 2011
In-Reply-To: <BC87D3E9-5F13-4EBD-AA9F-4334F5462540@mac-access.net>
References: <0DAEA1AC-092B-487D-BEA7-A3B1AE22CB31@mac-access.net>
	<EF941A09-BCBD-48A0-8683-7FAD71B88B68@internode.on.net>
	<FBCF7D2A-60C9-4064-8F3B-94EBEC5FF7FB@mac-access.net>
	<BE33D1AA-64ED-4DDB-8C65-28F815183CE4@internode.on.net>
	<BC87D3E9-5F13-4EBD-AA9F-4334F5462540@mac-access.net>
Message-ID: <739713E7-3EDC-436D-A592-005D37F96937@internode.on.net>

Another thing to be aware of with Diskeeper and your EEEPC Netbook, by default DK will not run its automatic functions whilst on battery power, I suppose this is a mute point really given that it can't run all the time anyway with Rollback installed on your system <smile>.


On 23/10/2011, at 9:22 PM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:

> Hello Dane
> 
> I keep forgetting to change accounts. :) OK, I will try that.
> 
> Lynne
> 
> On 23 Oct 2011, at 11:15, Dane Trethowan wrote:
> 
> I think I found what you're looking for by typing in defragment or something like that.
> 
> 
> On 23/10/2011, at 9:13 PM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:
> 
>> hello Dane
>> 
>> Yes; i understand the principles. I have just downloaded the downloader; but it seems I have to go into Windows to run that to get the main programme.
>> 
>> I did do this search actually on the Horizon Datasystems site; but it came up with Zero Results when I entered "Diskeeper" into the search engine.
>> 
>> Maybe I should have searched for Disk Defragmentation or something similar.
>> 
>> Lynne
>> 
>> 
>> On 23 Oct 2011, at 10:35, Dane Trethowan wrote:
>> 
>> Yes, you can use Diskeeper 2011 and Rollback together, I have done this.
>> 
>> You'll need to search the Rollback knowledge base for "Diskeeper", there's an article which explains how to set up the command line utility in Rollback.
>> 
>> The idea is that DK remains disabled, every time you wish to defragment your hard drive you run the command line which resets the Rollback baseline, disables Rollback etc thus allowing you to run DK and let it perform its automatic functions such as intelewrite.
>> 
>> You then type in another command line to enable Rollback again.
>> 
>> Dk and Rollback cannot affectively work together - that is to say they cannot be run together at the same time - as both use a similar technology, Rollback uses it for snapshots and DK uses it for its intelewrite service so there's bound to be some conflict and something's going to get pretty upset in the end, that is a hard drive <smile>.
>> 
>> 
>> On 23/10/2011, at 8:17 PM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:
>> 
>>> Hello everybody
>>> 
>>> I just remembered that we're entitled to a free upgrade to this product; so I downloaded the downloader. Before I install it on our NetBook, (which is now working again, by the way), is anybody else using this version of Diskeeper and, if so, how does it work with Rollback if you're using that as well?
>>> 
>>> I know that Dane was using this combo a while ago but I'm not sure of versions.
>>> 
>>> Also, has anybody tried their virtual machine application V-Losity?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Lynne
>>> 
>>> 
>>> =======================================
>>> 
>>> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free
>>> 
>>> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
>>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat
>>> 
>>> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites:
>>> 
>>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html
>>> 
>>> Or:
>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat at techno-chat.net>
>>> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat at techno-chat.net/maillist.xml>
>>> 
>>> ---------------------------------------
>> 
>> 
>> =======================================
>> 
>> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free
>> 
>> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat
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>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html
>> 
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>> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
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>> 
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> 
> 
> =======================================
> 
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> 
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From lynne at mac-access.net  Sun Oct 23 13:23:34 2011
From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2011 13:23:34 +0100
Subject: Diskeeper 2011
In-Reply-To: <CAD6C16F-535C-4969-84C7-48B9F3DA302A@internode.on.net>
References: <0DAEA1AC-092B-487D-BEA7-A3B1AE22CB31@mac-access.net>
	<EF941A09-BCBD-48A0-8683-7FAD71B88B68@internode.on.net>
	<FBCF7D2A-60C9-4064-8F3B-94EBEC5FF7FB@mac-access.net>
	<BE33D1AA-64ED-4DDB-8C65-28F815183CE4@internode.on.net>
	<BC87D3E9-5F13-4EBD-AA9F-4334F5462540@mac-access.net>
	<CAD6C16F-535C-4969-84C7-48B9F3DA302A@internode.on.net>
Message-ID: <409B9E7B-18CC-47AC-A706-BE39293BFDB5@mac-access.net>

I'll try that then. Incidentally, late though it may be, happy birthday.

Lynne

On 23 Oct 2011, at 11:26, Dane Trethowan wrote:

I remember using this term now as it struck me that there are various disk defragmentation applications around such as Diskeeper, Perfect Disc etc.


On 23/10/2011, at 9:22 PM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:

> Hello Dane
> 
> I keep forgetting to change accounts. :) OK, I will try that.
> 
> Lynne
> 
> On 23 Oct 2011, at 11:15, Dane Trethowan wrote:
> 
> I think I found what you're looking for by typing in defragment or something like that.
> 
> 
> On 23/10/2011, at 9:13 PM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:
> 
>> hello Dane
>> 
>> Yes; i understand the principles. I have just downloaded the downloader; but it seems I have to go into Windows to run that to get the main programme.
>> 
>> I did do this search actually on the Horizon Datasystems site; but it came up with Zero Results when I entered "Diskeeper" into the search engine.
>> 
>> Maybe I should have searched for Disk Defragmentation or something similar.
>> 
>> Lynne
>> 
>> 
>> On 23 Oct 2011, at 10:35, Dane Trethowan wrote:
>> 
>> Yes, you can use Diskeeper 2011 and Rollback together, I have done this.
>> 
>> You'll need to search the Rollback knowledge base for "Diskeeper", there's an article which explains how to set up the command line utility in Rollback.
>> 
>> The idea is that DK remains disabled, every time you wish to defragment your hard drive you run the command line which resets the Rollback baseline, disables Rollback etc thus allowing you to run DK and let it perform its automatic functions such as intelewrite.
>> 
>> You then type in another command line to enable Rollback again.
>> 
>> Dk and Rollback cannot affectively work together - that is to say they cannot be run together at the same time - as both use a similar technology, Rollback uses it for snapshots and DK uses it for its intelewrite service so there's bound to be some conflict and something's going to get pretty upset in the end, that is a hard drive <smile>.
>> 
>> 
>> On 23/10/2011, at 8:17 PM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:
>> 
>>> Hello everybody
>>> 
>>> I just remembered that we're entitled to a free upgrade to this product; so I downloaded the downloader. Before I install it on our NetBook, (which is now working again, by the way), is anybody else using this version of Diskeeper and, if so, how does it work with Rollback if you're using that as well?
>>> 
>>> I know that Dane was using this combo a while ago but I'm not sure of versions.
>>> 
>>> Also, has anybody tried their virtual machine application V-Losity?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Lynne
>>> 
>>> 
>>> =======================================
>>> 
>>> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free
>>> 
>>> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
>>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat
>>> 
>>> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites:
>>> 
>>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html
>>> 
>>> Or:
>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat at techno-chat.net>
>>> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat at techno-chat.net/maillist.xml>
>>> 
>>> ---------------------------------------
>> 
>> 
>> =======================================
>> 
>> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free
>> 
>> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
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>> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
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From lynne at mac-access.net  Sun Oct 23 13:25:43 2011
From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2011 13:25:43 +0100
Subject: Diskeeper 2011
In-Reply-To: <FA2FE875-6A72-42E8-9DF3-383926B99FC9@internode.on.net>
References: <0DAEA1AC-092B-487D-BEA7-A3B1AE22CB31@mac-access.net>
	<EF941A09-BCBD-48A0-8683-7FAD71B88B68@internode.on.net>
	<FBCF7D2A-60C9-4064-8F3B-94EBEC5FF7FB@mac-access.net>
	<BE33D1AA-64ED-4DDB-8C65-28F815183CE4@internode.on.net>
	<BC87D3E9-5F13-4EBD-AA9F-4334F5462540@mac-access.net>
	<FA2FE875-6A72-42E8-9DF3-383926B99FC9@internode.on.net>
Message-ID: <A5BC754B-CEB8-486B-BC6D-756394BB94F4@mac-access.net>


On 23 Oct 2011, at 11:31, Dane Trethowan wrote:

Changing tac a little here, I'm most interested in some of the new features DK 2011 Premier Pro offers in particular the option which allows the user to set DK's defragmentation level.

For example by default DK only defragments those files critical to system performance now rather than the whole drive, you can change this setting.
Hello Dane

We now have the ProPremier version so I will install it and let you know just as soon as I find out how it works with RB.

Lynne

I'm curious to know how DK determines which and what files are critical to system performance, I'm not saying that its all rubbish but I reckon there'd be a fair amount of monitoring and calculating involved in this process, certainly it saves wear on the mechanics of a hard drive <smile>.


On 23/10/2011, at 9:22 PM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:

> Hello Dane
> 
> I keep forgetting to change accounts. :) OK, I will try that.
> 
> Lynne
> 
> On 23 Oct 2011, at 11:15, Dane Trethowan wrote:
> 
> I think I found what you're looking for by typing in defragment or something like that.
> 
> 
> On 23/10/2011, at 9:13 PM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:
> 
>> hello Dane
>> 
>> Yes; i understand the principles. I have just downloaded the downloader; but it seems I have to go into Windows to run that to get the main programme.
>> 
>> I did do this search actually on the Horizon Datasystems site; but it came up with Zero Results when I entered "Diskeeper" into the search engine.
>> 
>> Maybe I should have searched for Disk Defragmentation or something similar.
>> 
>> Lynne
>> 
>> 
>> On 23 Oct 2011, at 10:35, Dane Trethowan wrote:
>> 
>> Yes, you can use Diskeeper 2011 and Rollback together, I have done this.
>> 
>> You'll need to search the Rollback knowledge base for "Diskeeper", there's an article which explains how to set up the command line utility in Rollback.
>> 
>> The idea is that DK remains disabled, every time you wish to defragment your hard drive you run the command line which resets the Rollback baseline, disables Rollback etc thus allowing you to run DK and let it perform its automatic functions such as intelewrite.
>> 
>> You then type in another command line to enable Rollback again.
>> 
>> Dk and Rollback cannot affectively work together - that is to say they cannot be run together at the same time - as both use a similar technology, Rollback uses it for snapshots and DK uses it for its intelewrite service so there's bound to be some conflict and something's going to get pretty upset in the end, that is a hard drive <smile>.
>> 
>> 
>> On 23/10/2011, at 8:17 PM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:
>> 
>>> Hello everybody
>>> 
>>> I just remembered that we're entitled to a free upgrade to this product; so I downloaded the downloader. Before I install it on our NetBook, (which is now working again, by the way), is anybody else using this version of Diskeeper and, if so, how does it work with Rollback if you're using that as well?
>>> 
>>> I know that Dane was using this combo a while ago but I'm not sure of versions.
>>> 
>>> Also, has anybody tried their virtual machine application V-Losity?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Lynne
>>> 
>>> 
>>> =======================================
>>> 
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>>> 
>>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html
>>> 
>>> Or:
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>>> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
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From lynne at mac-access.net  Sun Oct 23 13:27:49 2011
From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2011 13:27:49 +0100
Subject: Diskeeper 2011
In-Reply-To: <739713E7-3EDC-436D-A592-005D37F96937@internode.on.net>
References: <0DAEA1AC-092B-487D-BEA7-A3B1AE22CB31@mac-access.net>
	<EF941A09-BCBD-48A0-8683-7FAD71B88B68@internode.on.net>
	<FBCF7D2A-60C9-4064-8F3B-94EBEC5FF7FB@mac-access.net>
	<BE33D1AA-64ED-4DDB-8C65-28F815183CE4@internode.on.net>
	<BC87D3E9-5F13-4EBD-AA9F-4334F5462540@mac-access.net>
	<739713E7-3EDC-436D-A592-005D37F96937@internode.on.net>
Message-ID: <A44EF2C1-8999-40AA-8076-5BDB63C2DF84@mac-access.net>

We won't be using it on auto mode anyway. To us, RB is far more important as it saved our machine earlier this month. That was just one example.

Lynne

On 23 Oct 2011, at 11:33, Dane Trethowan wrote:

Another thing to be aware of with Diskeeper and your EEEPC Netbook, by default DK will not run its automatic functions whilst on battery power, I suppose this is a mute point really given that it can't run all the time anyway with Rollback installed on your system <smile>.



From hopewell at hopewell.org.uk  Wed Oct 26 13:57:27 2011
From: hopewell at hopewell.org.uk (Paul Hopewell)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2011 13:57:27 +0100
Subject: Accessing Apple iCloud on Windows XP 
Message-ID: <2D4B47BD-09CA-46F1-BCF7-BD037D62689E@hopewell.org.uk>

Hello, 
I am a new member of the techno-chat group and this is my first post. I am blind and use an iMac computer running Mac OS 10.7.2 with VoiceOver for all computer access. i also use an iPhone 3GS os IOS 5 and an iPod Nano generation 6 with the latest software. 

However from time to time I need to run Windows XP as this is the OS for my backup laptop computer and is also the OS for my sighted wife's computer which I have to fix from time to time. On Windows I use the WindowEyes and NVDA screen readers. 

I have started using the Apple iCloud to keep contacts and calendar in sync between my iMac and my iPhone. This works very well and it would be very useful if I could access the same information our Windows XP computers. I understand that this is possible using Microsoft Outlook on Windows Vista or Windows 7 but alas I am on Windows XP but do have Microsoft Outlook 2007. I tried accessing contacts and calendar on icloud.com but with only partial success. 

Have any list members tried this and if so have you had better success? 
Best regards....

Paul Hopewell 
hopewell at hopewell.org.uk 

From lynne at mac-access.net  Thu Oct 27 07:40:00 2011
From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2011 07:40:00 +0100
Subject: Accessing Apple iCloud on Windows XP 
In-Reply-To: <2D4B47BD-09CA-46F1-BCF7-BD037D62689E@hopewell.org.uk>
References: <2D4B47BD-09CA-46F1-BCF7-BD037D62689E@hopewell.org.uk>
Message-ID: <4BB7AB1A-C82B-4011-9716-B1A1FCE8D286@mac-access.net>

Paul

Download the Windows control panel and you might have more luck.

Lynne

On 26 Oct 2011, at 13:57, Paul Hopewell wrote:

Hello, 
I am a new member of the techno-chat group and this is my first post. I am blind and use an iMac computer running Mac OS 10.7.2 with VoiceOver for all computer access. i also use an iPhone 3GS os IOS 5 and an iPod Nano generation 6 with the latest software. 

However from time to time I need to run Windows XP as this is the OS for my backup laptop computer and is also the OS for my sighted wife's computer which I have to fix from time to time. On Windows I use the WindowEyes and NVDA screen readers. 

I have started using the Apple iCloud to keep contacts and calendar in sync between my iMac and my iPhone. This works very well and it would be very useful if I could access the same information our Windows XP computers. I understand that this is possible using Microsoft Outlook on Windows Vista or Windows 7 but alas I am on Windows XP but do have Microsoft Outlook 2007. I tried accessing contacts and calendar on icloud.com but with only partial success. 

Have any list members tried this and if so have you had better success? 
Best regards....

Paul Hopewell 
hopewell at hopewell.org.uk 

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From hopewell at hopewell.org.uk  Fri Oct 28 16:11:37 2011
From: hopewell at hopewell.org.uk (Paul Hopewell)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2011 16:11:37 +0100
Subject: Accessing Apple iCloud on Windows XP 
In-Reply-To: <4BB7AB1A-C82B-4011-9716-B1A1FCE8D286@mac-access.net>
References: <2D4B47BD-09CA-46F1-BCF7-BD037D62689E@hopewell.org.uk>
	<4BB7AB1A-C82B-4011-9716-B1A1FCE8D286@mac-access.net>
Message-ID: <D8743A23-B06B-45E0-8674-AB68C42F1106@hopewell.org.uk>

Hi Lynne, 
Alas the iCloud Windows Control Panel claims to require Windows Vista Service Pack 2 or Windows 7. As I only have Windows XP that does not seem too promising. However I will give it a go - it may just be that Apple have not tested it on Windows XP. 
Best regards....

Paul Hopewell 
On 27 Oct 2011, at 07:40, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:

> Paul
> 
> Download the Windows control panel and you might have more luck.
> 
> Lynne
> 
> On 26 Oct 2011, at 13:57, Paul Hopewell wrote:
> 
> Hello, 
> I am a new member of the techno-chat group and this is my first post. I am blind and use an iMac computer running Mac OS 10.7.2 with VoiceOver for all computer access. i also use an iPhone 3GS os IOS 5 and an iPod Nano generation 6 with the latest software. 
> 
> However from time to time I need to run Windows XP as this is the OS for my backup laptop computer and is also the OS for my sighted wife's computer which I have to fix from time to time. On Windows I use the WindowEyes and NVDA screen readers. 
> 
> I have started using the Apple iCloud to keep contacts and calendar in sync between my iMac and my iPhone. This works very well and it would be very useful if I could access the same information our Windows XP computers. I understand that this is possible using Microsoft Outlook on Windows Vista or Windows 7 but alas I am on Windows XP but do have Microsoft Outlook 2007. I tried accessing contacts and calendar on icloud.com but with only partial success. 
> 
> Have any list members tried this and if so have you had better success? 
> Best regards....
> 
> Paul Hopewell 
> hopewell at hopewell.org.uk 
> 
> =======================================
> 
> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free
> 
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From mstores at indiana.edu  Fri Oct 28 16:35:12 2011
From: mstores at indiana.edu (Mary Stores)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2011 11:35:12 -0400
Subject: WindowEyes and CSS set to DisplayNone question
Message-ID: <20111028113512.7i0rhwrqmo8080sw@webmail.iu.edu>

Hi guys,

I have downloaded the latest Windoweyes and am using it, as well as 
JAWS and NVDA to test stuff for web accessibility. I went to a 
particular web site which i cannot hsare here and noticed that although 
CSS was set to displayNone, WindowEyes read it anyway. Is there a 
setting where this can be changed, because this is really annoying.

Thanks,

Mary



From marrie12 at gmail.com  Sat Oct 29 07:04:53 2011
From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah Alawami)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2011 23:04:53 -0700
Subject: a question about mount points in icecast
Message-ID: <D17754B5-397B-49B3-9EE9-E14AFF2A3002@gmail.com>

Hello. For those that use icecast I have a question about on the point mount points. How do I break them after the person is done? I made one once and the default one which is /live went to the on the fly mount point 2 days after the dj was done using it. It was supposed to go to /stream. How do I make sure this does not happen again? I need to know before my tomorrow as I'm testing someone for my station.

Thanks.

Sarah Alawami

If you  need an edit  done on a small project go to http://music.marrie.org/master.html for more info. If you need to contact me my info is below.
MSN and AIM: marrie12 at gmail.com
website: http://music.marrie.org
Podcast: http://tffp.marrie.org/podcast
youtube: http://youtube.com/marrie125


From lynne at mac-access.net  Sat Oct 29 12:38:19 2011
From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2011 12:38:19 +0100
Subject: Cleaning Up Windows
Message-ID: <2FA53CF3-2A09-4A52-9FA3-2B714A026335@mac-access.net>

Hello everybody

I am in need of utilities to clean up a laptop running Windows Vista. I've had to remove a lot of junk and I think the whole thing needs a darn good clear-out. Are there such utilities?

Lynne



From marrie12 at gmail.com  Sat Oct 29 17:40:58 2011
From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah Alawami)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2011 09:40:58 -0700
Subject: Cleaning Up Windows
In-Reply-To: <2FA53CF3-2A09-4A52-9FA3-2B714A026335@mac-access.net>
References: <2FA53CF3-2A09-4A52-9FA3-2B714A026335@mac-access.net>
Message-ID: <3E2C3C20-9B6E-4402-89F2-09ABEA36F949@gmail.com>

Hello. Try CCleaner. It works well to get rid of crap and is fully accessibil.

Take care all.
On Oct 29, 2011, at 4:38 AM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:

> Hello everybody
> 
> I am in need of utilities to clean up a laptop running Windows Vista. I've had to remove a lot of junk and I think the whole thing needs a darn good clear-out. Are there such utilities?
> 
> Lynne
> 
> 
> 
> =======================================
> 
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From grtdane at internode.on.net  Sat Oct 29 18:57:24 2011
From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2011 04:57:24 +1100
Subject: Cleaning Up Windows
In-Reply-To: <2FA53CF3-2A09-4A52-9FA3-2B714A026335@mac-access.net>
References: <2FA53CF3-2A09-4A52-9FA3-2B714A026335@mac-access.net>
Message-ID: <4EAC3E84.70301@internode.on.net>

I believe we've discussed this before <smile>.

Tune-Up Utilities at <http://www.tune-up.com> and CCleaner at 
<http://www.ccleaner.com> are highly recommended by me at least <smile>.



On 29/10/2011 10:38 PM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:
> Hello everybody
>
> I am in need of utilities to clean up a laptop running Windows Vista. I've had to remove a lot of junk and I think the whole thing needs a darn good clear-out. Are there such utilities?
>
> Lynne
>
>
>
> =======================================
>
> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free
>
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>
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>
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>
> ---------------------------------------

-- 
Dane Trethowan
 From Melton Victoria Australia
skype callto:grtdane12
MSN: grtdane at dane-trethowan.net


From lynne at mac-access.net  Sun Oct 30 00:59:40 2011
From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2011 00:59:40 +0100
Subject: Cleaning Up Windows
In-Reply-To: <3E2C3C20-9B6E-4402-89F2-09ABEA36F949@gmail.com>
References: <2FA53CF3-2A09-4A52-9FA3-2B714A026335@mac-access.net>
	<3E2C3C20-9B6E-4402-89F2-09ABEA36F949@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <19518DD3-64E4-45EB-8F26-A867267E766A@mac-access.net>

Hello

May I ask, when people post recommendations, that they please also include the URL? The recommendation isn't a lot of use without it on many occasions.

Lynne


On 29 Oct 2011, at 17:40, Sarah Alawami wrote:

Hello. Try CCleaner. It works well to get rid of crap and is fully accessibil.

Take care all.
On Oct 29, 2011, at 4:38 AM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:

> Hello everybody
> 
> I am in need of utilities to clean up a laptop running Windows Vista. I've had to remove a lot of junk and I think the whole thing needs a darn good clear-out. Are there such utilities?
> 
> Lynne
> 
> 
> 
> =======================================
> 
> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free
> 
> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat
> 
> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites:
> 
> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html
> 
> Or:
> <http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat at techno-chat.net>
> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
> <http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat at techno-chat.net/maillist.xml>
> 
> ---------------------------------------


=======================================

The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free

To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat

You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites:

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Or:
<http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat at techno-chat.net>
you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
<http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat at techno-chat.net/maillist.xml>

---------------------------------------


From marrie12 at gmail.com  Sun Oct 30 01:35:11 2011
From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah Alawami)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2011 17:35:11 -0700
Subject: the mount point issue resolved
Message-ID: <BC898AE6-40EE-4FDB-8448-03926001AFEA@gmail.com>

Ok. I fixed the mount point issue. All I had to do was not log in to that same one. I'm thinking what happened last time was the dj forgot to log int and hence all the stuff was going there instead of /stream. I found that out on another list btw. but I hope that helps anyone on here with an icecast server.

Take care all.

From marrie12 at gmail.com  Sun Oct 30 01:32:43 2011
From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah Alawami)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2011 17:32:43 -0700
Subject: Cleaning Up Windows
In-Reply-To: <19518DD3-64E4-45EB-8F26-A867267E766A@mac-access.net>
References: <2FA53CF3-2A09-4A52-9FA3-2B714A026335@mac-access.net>
	<3E2C3C20-9B6E-4402-89F2-09ABEA36F949@gmail.com>
	<19518DD3-64E4-45EB-8F26-A867267E766A@mac-access.net>
Message-ID: <94AFB6C3-F5D2-4C61-A383-903793BB408C@gmail.com>

You can google for CCleaner or go to http://www.download.com and look for it or go to http://ninite.com and get it there through a simple installer that will install multiple things.

Take care.
On Oct 29, 2011, at 4:59 PM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:

> Hello
> 
> May I ask, when people post recommendations, that they please also include the URL? The recommendation isn't a lot of use without it on many occasions.
> 
> Lynne
> 
> 
> On 29 Oct 2011, at 17:40, Sarah Alawami wrote:
> 
> Hello. Try CCleaner. It works well to get rid of crap and is fully accessibil.
> 
> Take care all.
> On Oct 29, 2011, at 4:38 AM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:
> 
>> Hello everybody
>> 
>> I am in need of utilities to clean up a laptop running Windows Vista. I've had to remove a lot of junk and I think the whole thing needs a darn good clear-out. Are there such utilities?
>> 
>> Lynne
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> =======================================
>> 
>> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free
>> 
>> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat
>> 
>> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites:
>> 
>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html
>> 
>> Or:
>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat at techno-chat.net>
>> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat at techno-chat.net/maillist.xml>
>> 
>> ---------------------------------------
> 
> 
> =======================================
> 
> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free
> 
> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat
> 
> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites:
> 
> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html
> 
> Or:
> <http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat at techno-chat.net>
> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
> <http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat at techno-chat.net/maillist.xml>
> 
> ---------------------------------------
> 
> 
> =======================================
> 
> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free
> 
> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat
> 
> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites:
> 
> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html
> 
> Or:
> <http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat at techno-chat.net>
> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
> <http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat at techno-chat.net/maillist.xml>
> 
> ---------------------------------------


From grtdane at internode.on.net  Sun Oct 30 01:22:25 2011
From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2011 12:22:25 +1100
Subject: Cleaning Up Windows
In-Reply-To: <19518DD3-64E4-45EB-8F26-A867267E766A@mac-access.net>
References: <2FA53CF3-2A09-4A52-9FA3-2B714A026335@mac-access.net>
	<3E2C3C20-9B6E-4402-89F2-09ABEA36F949@gmail.com>
	<19518DD3-64E4-45EB-8F26-A867267E766A@mac-access.net>
Message-ID: <9B226250-E46B-4457-BCB5-0BA741823AAA@internode.on.net>

Gee, wonder if anyone out there could write a perfect email <smile>.


On 30/10/2011, at 10:59 AM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:

> Hello
> 
> May I ask, when people post recommendations, that they please also include the URL? The recommendation isn't a lot of use without it on many occasions.
> 
> Lynne
> 
> 
> On 29 Oct 2011, at 17:40, Sarah Alawami wrote:
> 
> Hello. Try CCleaner. It works well to get rid of crap and is fully accessibil.
> 
> Take care all.
> On Oct 29, 2011, at 4:38 AM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:
> 
>> Hello everybody
>> 
>> I am in need of utilities to clean up a laptop running Windows Vista. I've had to remove a lot of junk and I think the whole thing needs a darn good clear-out. Are there such utilities?
>> 
>> Lynne
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> =======================================
>> 
>> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free
>> 
>> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat
>> 
>> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites:
>> 
>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html
>> 
>> Or:
>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat at techno-chat.net>
>> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat at techno-chat.net/maillist.xml>
>> 
>> ---------------------------------------
> 
> 
> =======================================
> 
> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free
> 
> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat
> 
> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites:
> 
> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html
> 
> Or:
> <http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat at techno-chat.net>
> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
> <http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat at techno-chat.net/maillist.xml>
> 
> ---------------------------------------
> 
> 
> =======================================
> 
> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free
> 
> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat
> 
> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites:
> 
> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html
> 
> Or:
> <http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat at techno-chat.net>
> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
> <http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat at techno-chat.net/maillist.xml>
> 
> ---------------------------------------


From lynne at mac-access.net  Sun Oct 30 09:56:19 2011
From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2011 09:56:19 +0000
Subject: Cleaning Up Windows
In-Reply-To: <9B226250-E46B-4457-BCB5-0BA741823AAA@internode.on.net>
References: <2FA53CF3-2A09-4A52-9FA3-2B714A026335@mac-access.net>
	<3E2C3C20-9B6E-4402-89F2-09ABEA36F949@gmail.com>
	<19518DD3-64E4-45EB-8F26-A867267E766A@mac-access.net>
	<9B226250-E46B-4457-BCB5-0BA741823AAA@internode.on.net>
Message-ID: <E9F213BA-3AF1-4272-BD66-FC6E7643EB2C@mac-access.net>

Hello Dane

That was merely a polite request, replying, I might add, to somebody else on list; not to your own message. You included the URL so why are you making a fuss? Sarah subsequently also included the URL. I wonder, are you bored? I would also point out that sarcasm is the lowest form of wit; and that email was very witless. ;d

Lynne

On 30 Oct 2011, at 01:22, Dane Trethowan wrote:

Gee, wonder if anyone out there could write a perfect email <smile>.


From lynne at mac-access.net  Sun Oct 30 10:12:22 2011
From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2011 10:12:22 +0000
Subject: TuneUp Windows
Message-ID: <F5A1D82F-F8B6-4233-BDA4-9D267359C628@mac-access.net>

Hello everybody

If this utility suite lives up to its billing, it looks as though it could be a very useful set of tools. I hope I've done the right thing; I just bought the full version. We shall see if it does what it claims to do. :)

Lynne



From grtdane at internode.on.net  Sun Oct 30 10:15:04 2011
From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2011 21:15:04 +1100
Subject: TuneUp Windows
In-Reply-To: <F5A1D82F-F8B6-4233-BDA4-9D267359C628@mac-access.net>
References: <F5A1D82F-F8B6-4233-BDA4-9D267359C628@mac-access.net>
Message-ID: <6473CE66-90C8-4DA2-8379-236297043C47@internode.on.net>

Is it Tune-Up Utilities you're referring to here? If so then I've been using this suite of utilities for the last 4 years or so, its brilliant! reminds me of the old Norton Utilities days, very good value for money and quite accessible.


On 30/10/2011, at 9:12 PM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:

> Hello everybody
> 
> If this utility suite lives up to its billing, it looks as though it could be a very useful set of tools. I hope I've done the right thing; I just bought the full version. We shall see if it does what it claims to do. :)
> 
> Lynne
> 
> 
> 
> =======================================
> 
> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free
> 
> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat
> 
> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites:
> 
> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html
> 
> Or:
> <http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat at techno-chat.net>
> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
> <http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat at techno-chat.net/maillist.xml>
> 
> ---------------------------------------


From lynne at mac-access.net  Sun Oct 30 10:24:53 2011
From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2011 10:24:53 +0000
Subject: Tune-Up Utilities
In-Reply-To: <6473CE66-90C8-4DA2-8379-236297043C47@internode.on.net>
References: <F5A1D82F-F8B6-4233-BDA4-9D267359C628@mac-access.net>
	<6473CE66-90C8-4DA2-8379-236297043C47@internode.on.net>
Message-ID: <7E31D268-59F6-4112-BA3A-C6224F31C206@mac-access.net>

yes; it is Tune-Up Utilities. Personally I find the claims a little hard to believe. But well; we will see. An extra 30% here, an additional 50% there; those are very high figures to live up too. We shall see.

Although no technician, I have a laptop here which doesn't belong to me and I'm really looking for a way to fix its Windows installation without having to use up one of the 3 licenses I bought. So I might try the free version first; just see how it goes on that machine. See if it gets rid of the crap that the owner so stupidly installed; Virgin Media broadband tools, Sky Broadband tools (when she switched), but once Virgin Media tools are there they are very difficult, if not impossible to fully shift.

I ran the removal tools that Windows gives you but there is all kinds of junk left over. I see now why Gordon hates the concept of the Registry.

Lynne

On 30 Oct 2011, at 10:15, Dane Trethowan wrote:

Is it Tune-Up Utilities you're referring to here? If so then I've been using this suite of utilities for the last 4 years or so, its brilliant! reminds me of the old Norton Utilities days, very good value for money and quite accessible.



From grtdane at internode.on.net  Sun Oct 30 10:30:06 2011
From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2011 21:30:06 +1100
Subject: Tune-Up Utilities
In-Reply-To: <7E31D268-59F6-4112-BA3A-C6224F31C206@mac-access.net>
References: <F5A1D82F-F8B6-4233-BDA4-9D267359C628@mac-access.net>
	<6473CE66-90C8-4DA2-8379-236297043C47@internode.on.net>
	<7E31D268-59F6-4112-BA3A-C6224F31C206@mac-access.net>
Message-ID: <7CEF8BF9-87C3-4505-8440-FFFE52560671@internode.on.net>

I don't take any notice of those claims, never have and never will though simple benchmark tests could prove one way or the other <smile>, I just use the utilities where appropriate.

Diskeeper makes similar claims about its defragmentation technology, no idea how accurate those claims are but I can say that Diskeeper certainly improves the performance of a Windows PC and I've never seen any time when it hasn't improved the performance of a PC its been running on.


On 30/10/2011, at 9:24 PM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:

> yes; it is Tune-Up Utilities. Personally I find the claims a little hard to believe. But well; we will see. An extra 30% here, an additional 50% there; those are very high figures to live up too. We shall see.
> 
> Although no technician, I have a laptop here which doesn't belong to me and I'm really looking for a way to fix its Windows installation without having to use up one of the 3 licenses I bought. So I might try the free version first; just see how it goes on that machine. See if it gets rid of the crap that the owner so stupidly installed; Virgin Media broadband tools, Sky Broadband tools (when she switched), but once Virgin Media tools are there they are very difficult, if not impossible to fully shift.
> 
> I ran the removal tools that Windows gives you but there is all kinds of junk left over. I see now why Gordon hates the concept of the Registry.
> 
> Lynne
> 
> On 30 Oct 2011, at 10:15, Dane Trethowan wrote:
> 
> Is it Tune-Up Utilities you're referring to here? If so then I've been using this suite of utilities for the last 4 years or so, its brilliant! reminds me of the old Norton Utilities days, very good value for money and quite accessible.
> 
> 
> 
> =======================================
> 
> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free
> 
> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat
> 
> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites:
> 
> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html
> 
> Or:
> <http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat at techno-chat.net>
> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
> <http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat at techno-chat.net/maillist.xml>
> 
> ---------------------------------------


From lynne at mac-access.net  Sun Oct 30 10:54:05 2011
From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2011 10:54:05 +0000
Subject: Tune-Up Utilities
In-Reply-To: <7CEF8BF9-87C3-4505-8440-FFFE52560671@internode.on.net>
References: <F5A1D82F-F8B6-4233-BDA4-9D267359C628@mac-access.net>
	<6473CE66-90C8-4DA2-8379-236297043C47@internode.on.net>
	<7E31D268-59F6-4112-BA3A-C6224F31C206@mac-access.net>
	<7CEF8BF9-87C3-4505-8440-FFFE52560671@internode.on.net>
Message-ID: <0F63EF3F-2093-4F63-AFF3-535AF6D78BFD@mac-access.net>

Gordon was running Diskeeper for years actually when we had our desktops. But their came a time when we were getting nothing but problems with those machines and it was then that we took the decision to switch totally as far as our mission-critical systems were concerned. Although I confess I was a little surprised when he took the machines outside and vented his frustrations with the use of a 28-pound sledgehammer; and that is no exaggeration. :)

As for benchmarking; we do actually have a pretty comprehensive set of tools here; one of them is called Sysoft Sandra. It's not terribly accessible for those of you who need screen-readers though because it presents everything in a graphical table. The other tool is one which doesn't run under Windows at all. It's one Gordon's been using for years, when he used to build computers. It's called "Torture-Test", and it does exactly what it claims to do. You run it, and leave it running for upwards of 24 hours. It systematically "torture tests" every vital component in the system and produces a system report.

The latest version can upload the report to a remote server in stages so that you can see exactly what's happening even if you cannot actually see the display.

But even now we're still having problems with Windows. For instance, Duxberry Braille Translator will not function. Every time we run the darn thing it prompts us for activation. When we activate it it says it's done and then exits. Round and round in circles we go; and the so-called support people at Duxberry won't even respond to our emails. Well; just shows what you get when you shell out hundreds on expensive so-called class software titles. But it has done nothing at all to restore our faith in the racket that is assistive technology under Microsoft's platforms.

That's only one issue we are having with Windows; there are quite a few others. I'm probably going to have to restore our NetBook back to its factory defaults in order to fix them; which would be a problem in itself because we put our Windows 7 Ultimate upgrade installation on there and it's a fair bet that Microsoft will refuse to allow us to activate it again even though it's on the same machine and it would be reinstalled for genuine reasons.

That's one reason I personally so dislike Windows; it's a financial nightmare. It's a total rip-off, a con, a user's nightmare.

But we can't find the reciprocal utilities for Mac OS X which we need; fully comprehensive DAISY publishing, for one thing, and a professional Braille translator for another. Currently we are using Index Braille Translator for Windows which, kind of, works; but it has som nasty little quirks when you are using it with non-US Braille which kind of make it a non-viable tool for those of us who require a different language set. That's why we're so irritated by these DBT problems; quite apart from the fact that I paid a lot of money for that software, including the 11.1 upgrade. Well, just like GW Micro I think, Duxberry has seen its last Dollar from this particular very dissatisfied customer.

As for GW Micro, words fail me. I'm now coming around to the perspective of those visually impaired users who have made the switch to NVDA because to be honest, the GW Micro gang have gone down the same road as I'm told the people at Freedom have. In other words, they are branching out into other areas and trying to take over the world with their racketeering.

Anyway I am babbling; and I have other things to do.

Lynne

On 30 Oct 2011, at 10:30, Dane Trethowan wrote:

I don't take any notice of those claims, never have and never will though simple benchmark tests could prove one way or the other <smile>, I just use the utilities where appropriate.

Diskeeper makes similar claims about its defragmentation technology, no idea how accurate those claims are but I can say that Diskeeper certainly improves the performance of a Windows PC and I've never seen any time when it hasn't improved the performance of a PC its been running on.


From roger.firman at btinternet.com  Sun Oct 30 12:21:58 2011
From: roger.firman at btinternet.com (Roger Firman)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2011 12:21:58 -0000
Subject: Tune-Up Utilities
In-Reply-To: <0F63EF3F-2093-4F63-AFF3-535AF6D78BFD@mac-access.net>
Message-ID: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAA+dUVQqKIdEKdWPCtWTXi7+KAAAAQAAAA5N+FKZRa3E2Qb2HE0TdMkQEAAAAA@btinternet.com>

Dear Lynne,

>From your message I particularly wanted to respond about Duxbury.

Appreciating what you wrote about lack of response to messages, I can't
say that has been my experience and I have been using that product for
quite a number of years.

If you wanted to privately correspond about Duxbury I would be happy to
try and help.

Regards,

Roger.


From marrie12 at gmail.com  Sun Oct 30 18:16:45 2011
From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah Alawami)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2011 11:16:45 -0700
Subject: ninite and ccleaner
In-Reply-To: <9B226250-E46B-4457-BCB5-0BA741823AAA@internode.on.net>
References: <2FA53CF3-2A09-4A52-9FA3-2B714A026335@mac-access.net>
	<3E2C3C20-9B6E-4402-89F2-09ABEA36F949@gmail.com>
	<19518DD3-64E4-45EB-8F26-A867267E766A@mac-access.net>
	<9B226250-E46B-4457-BCB5-0BA741823AAA@internode.on.net>
Message-ID: <96709CBC-6FF4-4D7F-8008-A4E7BD452579@gmail.com>

Actually an update on ccleaner. Periform asked Ninite to remove there software from the auto installer. This makes me pissed off as  ninite removed the tool bars and crap that was in some of the bloated installers thereby making the customer experience more pleasurable an the system run a lot faster in some cases. I'm trying to find a way for periform to reverse the decision and so are  ninite. Here is there email to me dated yesterday at around 7:10 pm pisific.

Sorry about that. Piriform's CEO asked us to remove their apps, but we're working with them to fix that. If there's anything our users can do to help get them back I'll let you know. Thanks!


Take care all.On Oct 29, 2011, at 6:22 PM, Dane Trethowan wrote:

> Gee, wonder if anyone out there could write a perfect email <smile>.
> 
> 
> On 30/10/2011, at 10:59 AM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:
> 
>> Hello
>> 
>> May I ask, when people post recommendations, that they please also include the URL? The recommendation isn't a lot of use without it on many occasions.
>> 
>> Lynne
>> 
>> 
>> On 29 Oct 2011, at 17:40, Sarah Alawami wrote:
>> 
>> Hello. Try CCleaner. It works well to get rid of crap and is fully accessibil.
>> 
>> Take care all.
>> On Oct 29, 2011, at 4:38 AM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:
>> 
>>> Hello everybody
>>> 
>>> I am in need of utilities to clean up a laptop running Windows Vista. I've had to remove a lot of junk and I think the whole thing needs a darn good clear-out. Are there such utilities?
>>> 
>>> Lynne
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> =======================================
>>> 
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>>> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
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From chris.hallsworth at techno-chat.net  Sun Oct 30 19:03:18 2011
From: chris.hallsworth at techno-chat.net (chris hallsworth)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2011 19:03:18 +0000
Subject: ninite and ccleaner
In-Reply-To: <96709CBC-6FF4-4D7F-8008-A4E7BD452579@gmail.com>
References: <2FA53CF3-2A09-4A52-9FA3-2B714A026335@mac-access.net>	<3E2C3C20-9B6E-4402-89F2-09ABEA36F949@gmail.com>	<19518DD3-64E4-45EB-8F26-A867267E766A@mac-access.net>	<9B226250-E46B-4457-BCB5-0BA741823AAA@internode.on.net>
	<96709CBC-6FF4-4D7F-8008-A4E7BD452579@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4EAD9F76.10302@techno-chat.net>

It pisses me off as well. I do still use Piriform products though. They 
have a slim version which you can find on their builds pages. This is 
the same product but without the junk.

On 30/10/2011 18:16, Sarah Alawami wrote:
> Actually an update on ccleaner. Periform asked Ninite to remove there software from the auto installer. This makes me pissed off as  ninite removed the tool bars and crap that was in some of the bloated installers thereby making the customer experience more pleasurable an the system run a lot faster in some cases. I'm trying to find a way for periform to reverse the decision and so are  ninite. Here is there email to me dated yesterday at around 7:10 pm pisific.
>
> Sorry about that. Piriform's CEO asked us to remove their apps, but we're working with them to fix that. If there's anything our users can do to help get them back I'll let you know. Thanks!
>
>
> Take care all.On Oct 29, 2011, at 6:22 PM, Dane Trethowan wrote:
>
>> Gee, wonder if anyone out there could write a perfect email<smile>.
>>
>>
>> On 30/10/2011, at 10:59 AM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:
>>
>>> Hello
>>>
>>> May I ask, when people post recommendations, that they please also include the URL? The recommendation isn't a lot of use without it on many occasions.
>>>
>>> Lynne
>>>
>>>
>>> On 29 Oct 2011, at 17:40, Sarah Alawami wrote:
>>>
>>> Hello. Try CCleaner. It works well to get rid of crap and is fully accessibil.
>>>
>>> Take care all.
>>> On Oct 29, 2011, at 4:38 AM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hello everybody
>>>>
>>>> I am in need of utilities to clean up a laptop running Windows Vista. I've had to remove a lot of junk and I think the whole thing needs a darn good clear-out. Are there such utilities?
>>>>
>>>> Lynne
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> =======================================
>>>>
>>>> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free
>>>>
>>>> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
>>>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html
>>>>
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>>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat at techno-chat.net>
>>>> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
>>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat at techno-chat.net/maillist.xml>
>>>>
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>>>
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>>> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
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>>>
>>> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
>>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat
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>
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>
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From marrie12 at gmail.com  Sun Oct 30 20:56:44 2011
From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah Alawami)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2011 13:56:44 -0700
Subject: ninite and ccleaner
In-Reply-To: <4EAD9F76.10302@techno-chat.net>
References: <2FA53CF3-2A09-4A52-9FA3-2B714A026335@mac-access.net>	<3E2C3C20-9B6E-4402-89F2-09ABEA36F949@gmail.com>	<19518DD3-64E4-45EB-8F26-A867267E766A@mac-access.net>	<9B226250-E46B-4457-BCB5-0BA741823AAA@internode.on.net>
	<96709CBC-6FF4-4D7F-8008-A4E7BD452579@gmail.com>
	<4EAD9F76.10302@techno-chat.net>
Message-ID: <88187EBF-B81C-47CA-A843-FB88F4913603@gmail.com>

lol. I thought beta news had it as well. I guess we who want it  to contact the CCleaner folks and ask that they put it back in to ninite's software. Or they life the restriction that it not be aloud in ninite's updater thingy. For those that want to know what ninite is it's a easy installer wherein you build it with check boxes and download it then run it and it fetches the software for you from the websites and  installs the stripped down version  of the software with out the tool bars and junk with out the user's intervention.
On Oct 30, 2011, at 12:03 PM, chris hallsworth wrote:

> It pisses me off as well. I do still use Piriform products though. They have a slim version which you can find on their builds pages. This is the same product but without the junk.
> 
> On 30/10/2011 18:16, Sarah Alawami wrote:
>> Actually an update on ccleaner. Periform asked Ninite to remove there software from the auto installer. This makes me pissed off as  ninite removed the tool bars and crap that was in some of the bloated installers thereby making the customer experience more pleasurable an the system run a lot faster in some cases. I'm trying to find a way for periform to reverse the decision and so are  ninite. Here is there email to me dated yesterday at around 7:10 pm pisific.
>> 
>> Sorry about that. Piriform's CEO asked us to remove their apps, but we're working with them to fix that. If there's anything our users can do to help get them back I'll let you know. Thanks!
>> 
>> 
>> Take care all.On Oct 29, 2011, at 6:22 PM, Dane Trethowan wrote:
>> 
>>> Gee, wonder if anyone out there could write a perfect email<smile>.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 30/10/2011, at 10:59 AM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Hello
>>>> 
>>>> May I ask, when people post recommendations, that they please also include the URL? The recommendation isn't a lot of use without it on many occasions.
>>>> 
>>>> Lynne
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On 29 Oct 2011, at 17:40, Sarah Alawami wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hello. Try CCleaner. It works well to get rid of crap and is fully accessibil.
>>>> 
>>>> Take care all.
>>>> On Oct 29, 2011, at 4:38 AM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Hello everybody
>>>>> 
>>>>> I am in need of utilities to clean up a laptop running Windows Vista. I've had to remove a lot of junk and I think the whole thing needs a darn good clear-out. Are there such utilities?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Lynne
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> =======================================
>>>>> 
>>>>> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free
>>>>> 
>>>>> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
>>>>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat
>>>>> 
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>>>>> 
>>>>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html
>>>>> 
>>>>> Or:
>>>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat at techno-chat.net>
>>>>> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
>>>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat at techno-chat.net/maillist.xml>
>>>>> 
>>>>> ---------------------------------------
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> =======================================
>>>> 
>>>> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free
>>>> 
>>>> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
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>>>> 
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>>>> 
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>>>> 
>>>> Or:
>>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat at techno-chat.net>
>>>> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
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>>>> 
>>>> ---------------------------------------
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> =======================================
>>>> 
>>>> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free
>>>> 
>>>> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
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>>>> 
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>>>> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
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From grtdane at internode.on.net  Sun Oct 30 22:41:45 2011
From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2011 09:41:45 +1100
Subject: Qwitter, the end of the road
Message-ID: <2E6FD376-C805-4B10-A43F-17A26B89150C@internode.on.net>

Hi!

Just heard that the Qwitter Twitter client for Windows is no longer being developed.

Qwitter 5 is the latest version available and works well with Windows.

To my knowledge there are no other accessible Twitter clients for Windows out there so make the most of Qwitter whilst it still works with Twitter <smile>..



From juanitatighan at gmail.com  Sun Oct 30 23:05:00 2011
From: juanitatighan at gmail.com (Jane)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2011 19:05:00 -0400
Subject: Qwitter, the end of the road
In-Reply-To: <2E6FD376-C805-4B10-A43F-17A26B89150C@internode.on.net>
References: <2E6FD376-C805-4B10-A43F-17A26B89150C@internode.on.net>
Message-ID: <BCBC4145-8DD3-4BF5-ABDE-EB539AA619FA@gmail.com>


No, it's no longer in development.  This is irritating for a lot of reasons.  He had just been given an award for making such a wonderful project.  He had solicited donations; many people felt they were donating to keep Qwitter going.  The web page did seem to imply that.  Si ge'd gotten money out of the deal.  First he said he wasn't going to do anymore, then he released 5 beta.  Has it finally been upgraded to a full version, out of beta?  I'd heard he was not going to even do that.

Add to atht that he closed down the code for that version, so no one can legally mae changes.  Accessible or not, it's not worth supporting.  Better checking out the twitter mobile site or using a client on anothe roperating system.

Jane



On Oct 30, 2011, at 6:41 PM, Dane Trethowan wrote:

> Hi!
> 
> Just heard that the Qwitter Twitter client for Windows is no longer being developed.
> 
> Qwitter 5 is the latest version available and works well with Windows.
> 
> To my knowledge there are no other accessible Twitter clients for Windows out there so make the most of Qwitter whilst it still works with Twitter <smile>..
> 
> 
> 
> =======================================
> 
> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free
> 
> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat
> 
> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites:
> 
> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html
> 
> Or:
> <http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat at techno-chat.net>
> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
> <http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat at techno-chat.net/maillist.xml>
> 
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From marrie12 at gmail.com  Sun Oct 30 23:08:20 2011
From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah Alawami)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2011 16:08:20 -0700
Subject: Qwitter, the end of the road
In-Reply-To: <2E6FD376-C805-4B10-A43F-17A26B89150C@internode.on.net>
References: <2E6FD376-C805-4B10-A43F-17A26B89150C@internode.on.net>
Message-ID: <43C86573-71EB-4C5B-9AAA-D50A76B5964B@gmail.com>

Actually, there is a version of qwitter being developed. It is not out yet but I've been watching my twitter feed. The new client will be called twit monger. I only saw the name once but if you google for it as no url was given in my twitter feed you should able to come up with something, if not then wait and see.
On Oct 30, 2011, at 3:41 PM, Dane Trethowan wrote:

> Hi!
> 
> Just heard that the Qwitter Twitter client for Windows is no longer being developed.
> 
> Qwitter 5 is the latest version available and works well with Windows.
> 
> To my knowledge there are no other accessible Twitter clients for Windows out there so make the most of Qwitter whilst it still works with Twitter <smile>..
> 
> 
> 
> =======================================
> 
> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free
> 
> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat
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> 
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> 
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> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
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From grtdane at internode.on.net  Sun Oct 30 23:08:22 2011
From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2011 10:08:22 +1100
Subject: Qwitter, the end of the road
In-Reply-To: <BCBC4145-8DD3-4BF5-ABDE-EB539AA619FA@gmail.com>
References: <2E6FD376-C805-4B10-A43F-17A26B89150C@internode.on.net>
	<BCBC4145-8DD3-4BF5-ABDE-EB539AA619FA@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <81A46E73-722F-462A-BC40-49031B1483B6@internode.on.net>

Hmm, shame! Of course its his decision where he develops or doesn't but I didn't know he'd won an award for his hard work.

I have to admit to finding the software a little odd at first but as I got used to it I grew to really like it.

At one stage the developer said to me that he was looking at developing a Mac version so that's obviously not going to happen.


On 31/10/2011, at 10:05 AM, Jane wrote:

> 
> No, it's no longer in development.  This is irritating for a lot of reasons.  He had just been given an award for making such a wonderful project.  He had solicited donations; many people felt they were donating to keep Qwitter going.  The web page did seem to imply that.  Si ge'd gotten money out of the deal.  First he said he wasn't going to do anymore, then he released 5 beta.  Has it finally been upgraded to a full version, out of beta?  I'd heard he was not going to even do that.
> 
> Add to atht that he closed down the code for that version, so no one can legally mae changes.  Accessible or not, it's not worth supporting.  Better checking out the twitter mobile site or using a client on anothe roperating system.
> 
> Jane
> 
> 
> 
> On Oct 30, 2011, at 6:41 PM, Dane Trethowan wrote:
> 
>> Hi!
>> 
>> Just heard that the Qwitter Twitter client for Windows is no longer being developed.
>> 
>> Qwitter 5 is the latest version available and works well with Windows.
>> 
>> To my knowledge there are no other accessible Twitter clients for Windows out there so make the most of Qwitter whilst it still works with Twitter <smile>..
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> =======================================
>> 
>> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free
>> 
>> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at
>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat
>> 
>> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites:
>> 
>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html
>> 
>> Or:
>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/techno-chat at techno-chat.net>
>> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS.  The feed is at:
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>> 
>> ---------------------------------------
> 
> 
> =======================================
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> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free
> 
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From lynne at mac-access.net  Mon Oct 31 04:37:15 2011
From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2011 04:37:15 +0000
Subject: DBT For Windows version 10.7 through 11.1
In-Reply-To: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAA+dUVQqKIdEKdWPCtWTXi7+KAAAAQAAAA5N+FKZRa3E2Qb2HE0TdMkQEAAAAA@btinternet.com>
References: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAA+dUVQqKIdEKdWPCtWTXi7+KAAAAQAAAA5N+FKZRa3E2Qb2HE0TdMkQEAAAAA@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <6B81402C-DCA1-4359-ABBA-2CAF483C1BB5@mac-access.net>

Hello Roger

If I may, could I remind members to please try to keep subject lines current. No criticism intended; it just makes the archives easier to manage and allows members to be more selective more quickly when reading and responding. A general note; not specifically aimed towards any individual.

|And now, if I may, I will address your points.

On 30 Oct 2011, at 12:21, Roger Firman wrote:

? Appreciating what you wrote about lack of response to messages, I can't say that has been my experience and I have been using that product for quite a number of years.

Yes; as have we. Gordon first bought it when it was version 3.0 or something around that ilk; and until this point their technical support and responses have been excellent.

? If you wanted to privately correspond about Duxbury I would be happy to
try and help.

Are you able to answer technical questions regarding their installation and activation procedure? I don't want to waste your time if that's not the case; as that is the only issue we're having with it.

Gordon had expressed the thought before our current crisis blew up that it may have had something to do with the embosser installation. our configuration is kind of unusual. But by all means if you'd rather discuss it privately that's fine. That said, I know that there is at least one other DBT user on list so she might want to contribute to the discussion. In that event it might be better to keep it on list.

Thank you in either case for your input.

Lynne


From lynne at mac-access.net  Mon Oct 31 04:42:35 2011
From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2011 04:42:35 +0000
Subject: Using Bad Language On List; Stop It!
In-Reply-To: <96709CBC-6FF4-4D7F-8008-A4E7BD452579@gmail.com>
References: <2FA53CF3-2A09-4A52-9FA3-2B714A026335@mac-access.net>
	<3E2C3C20-9B6E-4402-89F2-09ABEA36F949@gmail.com>
	<19518DD3-64E4-45EB-8F26-A867267E766A@mac-access.net>
	<9B226250-E46B-4457-BCB5-0BA741823AAA@internode.on.net>
	<96709CBC-6FF4-4D7F-8008-A4E7BD452579@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <99903D2D-E15C-4AFF-A218-91657551D951@mac-access.net>

Sarah & all

I mention Sarah specifically because this warning relates to her email. However, it's a good opportunity to make myself very clear.

Would you please desist from using bad language on this list. It is against list policy. Whilst that kind of talk might be acceptable to some, it is possible that there may be young people viewing this group and we would not like any individual to risk our reputation.

Repeated abuse of list policy will result in removal. Everybody was sent a copy of that document when they joined so "I didn't know" won't be accepted as an excuse. If you didn't read it that's not our fault.

Lynne


From roger.firman at btinternet.com  Mon Oct 31 07:35:44 2011
From: roger.firman at btinternet.com (Roger Firman)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2011 07:35:44 -0000
Subject: DBT For Windows version 10.7 through 11.1
In-Reply-To: <6B81402C-DCA1-4359-ABBA-2CAF483C1BB5@mac-access.net>
Message-ID: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAA+dUVQqKIdEKdWPCtWTXi7+KAAAAQAAAAy4HxgyYywk2Odz/b1OkMLwEAAAAA@btinternet.com>

Hello Lynne,

More than happy to keep this thread for general viewing.

Would it be worth you raising the questions and I am quite happy to say
if I can or can't help; more than happy to try and help.

Roger.


From lynne at mac-access.net  Mon Oct 31 08:21:07 2011
From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2011 08:21:07 +0000
Subject: DBT For Windows version 10.7 through 11.1
In-Reply-To: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAA+dUVQqKIdEKdWPCtWTXi7+KAAAAQAAAAy4HxgyYywk2Odz/b1OkMLwEAAAAA@btinternet.com>
References: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAA+dUVQqKIdEKdWPCtWTXi7+KAAAAQAAAAy4HxgyYywk2Odz/b1OkMLwEAAAAA@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <47E93318-1F1C-42BC-8921-BFA5C71EFCC1@mac-access.net>

Hello Roger

On 31 Oct 2011, at 07:35, Roger Firman wrote:

? Would it be worth you raising the questions and I am quite happy to say
if I can or can't help; more than happy to try and help.

Wel; the only question I have is, as I said, what's causing the programme to behave as it is; it goes into the activation dialogue and prompts us to activate. Once activated it exits and upon startup the loop repeats over and over again.

We have tried everything we can think of; including contacting technical support. So far we've had no luck and no responses from the company.

I don't know whether they have now followed the example of so many others; and only provide support on a per-incident purchase basis. But if they do then I would have to cross them off the list of companies from whom we would consider future purchasing. When a disabled person such as yourself or Gordon pays that amount of money for a specialist product, including ridiculously high upgrade fees, one has the right, I think, to expect infinite support. In fact, it was quite fortunate that we installed our license for the first time in May of this year. When doing so I got a message from their server telling me that the activation had to be performed by June 1 2011 otherwise the license would be considered invalid. Nobody told us that at purchase time and had we lost our license I'd have contacted my legal advisers because I feel strongly about that kind of rip-off culture.

Lynne

Roger.


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From mstores at indiana.edu  Mon Oct 31 13:48:03 2011
From: mstores at indiana.edu (Mary Stores)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2011 09:48:03 -0400
Subject: DBT For Windows version 10.7 through 11.1
In-Reply-To: <6B81402C-DCA1-4359-ABBA-2CAF483C1BB5@mac-access.net>
References: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAA+dUVQqKIdEKdWPCtWTXi7+KAAAAQAAAA5N+FKZRa3E2Qb2HE0TdMkQEAAAAA@btinternet.com>
	<6B81402C-DCA1-4359-ABBA-2CAF483C1BB5@mac-access.net>
Message-ID: <20111031094803.7alh4tadwk408w4s@webmail.iu.edu>

Yes, I could also help. I am currently using DBT 11.1. I have had to 
recently call their tech support to ask how to translate something into 
uncontracted Turkish Braille. They laughed at me for at least two 
minutes (really, I am not kidding) and then took two weeks to get back 
to me. I had sent them a reminder e-mail a week in, and when they 
responded to me they said, "Oh, we're sorry. your e-mail must have 
gotten lost in cyberspace."

By then I had the problem resolved through other means.

Mary
Quoting "Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith" <lynne at mac-access.net>:

> try and help.
>
> Are you able to answer technical questions regarding their
> installation and activation procedure? I don't want to waste your
> time if that's not the case; as that is the only issue we're having
> with it.
>
> Gordon had expressed the thought before our current crisis blew up
> that it may have had something to do with the embosser installation.
> our configuration is kind of unusual. But by all means if you'd
> rather discuss it privately that's fine. That said, I know that there
> is at least one other DBT user on list so she might want to
> contribute to the discussion. In that event it might be better to
> keep it on list.
>
> Thank you in either case for your input.
>
> Lynne
>
>



From roger.firman at btinternet.com  Mon Oct 31 15:51:15 2011
From: roger.firman at btinternet.com (Roger Firman)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2011 15:51:15 -0000
Subject: DBT For Windows version 10.7 through 11.1
In-Reply-To: <47E93318-1F1C-42BC-8921-BFA5C71EFCC1@mac-access.net>
Message-ID: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAA+dUVQqKIdEKdWPCtWTXi7+KAAAAQAAAAb0DDR5cxXk248R+li3dQsQEAAAAA@btinternet.com>

Dear Lynne,

Appreciating that both you and Gordon have had an experience of
non-replies to messages in connection with DBT, was it a UK lack of
response or US?

Probably not the case with your situation but I can see how lack of
permissions would or could cause the problem you have outlined.

Roger.


From lynne at mac-access.net  Mon Oct 31 16:28:45 2011
From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2011 16:28:45 +0000
Subject: DBT For Windows version 10.7 through 11.1
In-Reply-To: <20111031094803.7alh4tadwk408w4s@webmail.iu.edu>
References: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAA+dUVQqKIdEKdWPCtWTXi7+KAAAAQAAAA5N+FKZRa3E2Qb2HE0TdMkQEAAAAA@btinternet.com>
	<6B81402C-DCA1-4359-ABBA-2CAF483C1BB5@mac-access.net>
	<20111031094803.7alh4tadwk408w4s@webmail.iu.edu>
Message-ID: <A9272C5A-FBD4-4543-A928-DBC2524AE9AC@mac-access.net>

hello Mary

I guess I'm going to have to write to them again because this really isn't good enough. You're describing a ridiculous situation which should not occur.  With a company such as them, their systems should be more bomb-proof.

Pardon the pun; but it sounds as though they are feeling their way around the problem and that kind of technical support is extremely amateurish.

Lynne

On 31 Oct 2011, at 13:48, Mary Stores wrote:

Yes, I could also help. I am currently using DBT 11.1. I have had to recently call their tech support to ask how to translate something into uncontracted Turkish Braille. They laughed at me for at least two minutes (really, I am not kidding) and then took two weeks to get back to me. I had sent them a reminder e-mail a week in, and when they responded to me they said, "Oh, we're sorry. your e-mail must have gotten lost in cyberspace."

By then I had the problem resolved through other means.


From lynne at mac-access.net  Mon Oct 31 16:56:13 2011
From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2011 16:56:13 +0000
Subject: DBT For Windows version 10.7 through 11.1
In-Reply-To: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAA+dUVQqKIdEKdWPCtWTXi7+KAAAAQAAAAb0DDR5cxXk248R+li3dQsQEAAAAA@btinternet.com>
References: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAA+dUVQqKIdEKdWPCtWTXi7+KAAAAQAAAAb0DDR5cxXk248R+li3dQsQEAAAAA@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <D9E50739-BA8A-4D45-9B1D-48308C93C338@mac-access.net>

Hello Roger

On 31 Oct 2011, at 15:51, Roger Firman wrote:

? Appreciating that both you and Gordon have had an experience of non-replies to messages in connection with DBT, was it a UK lack of
response or US?

I'm not sure I understand the question; sorry. But if it helps clarify things, I wrote to the support at duxsys.com address which I thin is a US address. The last time I contacted them and did get a response, from memory I think it was Don somebody or other who responded.

? Probably not the case with your situation but I can see how lack of
permissions would or could cause the problem you have outlined.

I've never encountered file permissions issues under Windows. Gordon (who is just home with me as of a couple of hours ago) is telling me that the Windows file systems aren't the same as UNIX or Mac OSX HFS or HFS+ file system. I'm not saying you're wrong; but I have personally never encountered that problem before under Windows; but it's a thought.

Lynne



From mstores at indiana.edu  Mon Oct 31 17:02:02 2011
From: mstores at indiana.edu (Mary Stores)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2011 13:02:02 -0400
Subject: DBT For Windows version 10.7 through 11.1
In-Reply-To: <D9E50739-BA8A-4D45-9B1D-48308C93C338@mac-access.net>
References: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAA+dUVQqKIdEKdWPCtWTXi7+KAAAAQAAAAb0DDR5cxXk248R+li3dQsQEAAAAA@btinternet.com>
	<D9E50739-BA8A-4D45-9B1D-48308C93C338@mac-access.net>
Message-ID: <20111031130202.fizc4u4dokgccog8@webmail.iu.edu>

Hi Lynne

It was probably Don Breda, and the e-mail address is correct.

Mary
Quoting "Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith" <lynne at mac-access.net>:

> Hello Roger
>
> On 31 Oct 2011, at 15:51, Roger Firman wrote:
>
> I'm not sure I understand the question; sorry. But if it helps
> clarify things, I wrote to the support at duxsys.com address which I
> thin is a US address. The last time I contacted them and did get a
> response, from memory I think it was Don somebody or other who
> responded.



From roger.firman at btinternet.com  Mon Oct 31 17:21:26 2011
From: roger.firman at btinternet.com (Roger Firman)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2011 17:21:26 -0000
Subject: DBT For Windows version 10.7 through 11.1
In-Reply-To: <D9E50739-BA8A-4D45-9B1D-48308C93C338@mac-access.net>
Message-ID: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAA+dUVQqKIdEKdWPCtWTXi7+KAAAAQAAAA1yJLE2r3v0i2/8rgmYVmXQEAAAAA@btinternet.com>

Dear Lynne,

It would have been Don Breda, I think, who would have been in touch.
Usually he is extremely helpful.

The reason I asked about UK or US is that there are a number of places
in the UK through which DBT can be purchased.

Regards,

Roger.


From lynne at mac-access.net  Mon Oct 31 17:40:54 2011
From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2011 17:40:54 +0000
Subject: DBT For Windows version 10.7 through 11.1
In-Reply-To: <20111031130202.fizc4u4dokgccog8@webmail.iu.edu>
References: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAA+dUVQqKIdEKdWPCtWTXi7+KAAAAQAAAAb0DDR5cxXk248R+li3dQsQEAAAAA@btinternet.com>
	<D9E50739-BA8A-4D45-9B1D-48308C93C338@mac-access.net>
	<20111031130202.fizc4u4dokgccog8@webmail.iu.edu>
Message-ID: <3316FE5D-4716-48C9-B143-EE9FD317FCC1@mac-access.net>

Hello Mary

On 31 Oct 2011, at 17:02, Mary Stores wrote:

Hi Lynne

? It was probably Don Breda, and the e-mail address is correct.

That's the bloke, yeah.

Lynne



From lynne at mac-access.net  Mon Oct 31 17:50:34 2011
From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2011 17:50:34 +0000
Subject: DBT For Windows version 10.7 through 11.1
In-Reply-To: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAA+dUVQqKIdEKdWPCtWTXi7+KAAAAQAAAA1yJLE2r3v0i2/8rgmYVmXQEAAAAA@btinternet.com>
References: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAA+dUVQqKIdEKdWPCtWTXi7+KAAAAQAAAA1yJLE2r3v0i2/8rgmYVmXQEAAAAA@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <CD3FA0CA-D3AD-4798-A23F-F55F5D0CFC4E@mac-access.net>

Hello Roger

Yes; I bought it from a UK reseller because they wouldn't let me upgrade online. So I had to go to another company which I really do not like doing. I just don't like the idea of using a dealer network because I worry about the security of serial numbers etc. We've had a couple of bad experiences with so-called dealership networks. But all of the Windows accessibility companies now seem to be doing that. Sight and Sound, for instance, deal with JFW which, thankfully, we don't own any longer because of the way they ripped Gordon off.

Lynne


On 31 Oct 2011, at 17:21, Roger Firman wrote:

Dear Lynne,

It would have been Don Breda, I think, who would have been in touch.
Usually he is extremely helpful.

The reason I asked about UK or US is that there are a number of places
in the UK through which DBT can be purchased.

Regards,

Roger.


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You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites:

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