From chris.hallsworth at techno-chat.net Thu Sep 1 18:35:30 2011 From: chris.hallsworth at techno-chat.net (chris hallsworth) Date: Thu, 01 Sep 2011 18:35:30 +0100 Subject: Windows 8 article: native iso and vhd support Message-ID: <4E5FC262.6000208@techno-chat.net> Hello all. Click on the following link to read this interesting article on what's coming with Windows 8 in regards to iso and vhd files. http://news.cnet.com/8301-10805_3-20099717-75/windows-8-to-directly-support-iso-and-vhd-files/#ixzz1WhRjP5QP Chat soon. P.S. The URL may wrap onto two lines. From chris.hallsworth at techno-chat.net Thu Sep 1 18:35:47 2011 From: chris.hallsworth at techno-chat.net (chris hallsworth) Date: Thu, 01 Sep 2011 18:35:47 +0100 Subject: Windows 8 Blog Message-ID: <4E5FC273.6010202@techno-chat.net> Hello all. Here is the RSS feed for blog entries regarding the development of Windows 8. http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/rss.aspx Chat soon. From lynne at mac-access.net Thu Sep 1 18:53:08 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2011 18:53:08 +0100 Subject: Jawbone Jambox Message-ID: Hello everybody I have just ordered us a Jawbone Jambox Bluetooth speaker system. If anybody is interested we may make this the first article in the upcoming "Techno-Chat Blog". Gordon has already started work on the Techno-Chat website; we are looking for articles by members and podcasts too if anybody is interested. The subject material only needs to be things with an emphasis on technology. We will very soon be adding the Techno-Chat podcast to the iTunes store. Lynne From moopiecurran at gmail.com Thu Sep 1 19:03:58 2011 From: moopiecurran at gmail.com (Courtney Curran) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2011 14:03:58 -0400 Subject: Jawbone Jambox In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <35DAC204-2966-4D2B-85C1-9ABC2E7CA50B@gmail.com> Hi, I also ordered one of these speakers, apparently they're very accessible. I think it will be very neat if there was an article about it on the Technochat blog. Courtney On Sep 1, 2011, at 1:53 PM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: > Hello everybody > > I have just ordered us a Jawbone Jambox Bluetooth speaker system. If anybody is interested we may make this the first article in the upcoming "Techno-Chat Blog". > > Gordon has already started work on the Techno-Chat website; we are looking for articles by members and podcasts too if anybody is interested. The subject material only needs to be things with an emphasis on technology. We will very soon be adding the Techno-Chat podcast to the iTunes store. > > Lynne > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- From lynne at mac-access.net Thu Sep 1 19:32:34 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2011 19:32:34 +0100 Subject: Jawbone Jambox In-Reply-To: <35DAC204-2966-4D2B-85C1-9ABC2E7CA50B@gmail.com> References: <35DAC204-2966-4D2B-85C1-9ABC2E7CA50B@gmail.com> Message-ID: <0B16A36C-D9F7-4011-A97C-0A310A88A75E@mac-access.net> Hello Courtney Thank you for your response. We have noted it and when we set up the blog shortly we will put something together. It may even be a podcast. Lynne On 1 Sep 2011, at 19:03, Courtney Curran wrote: Hi, I also ordered one of these speakers, apparently they're very accessible. I think it will be very neat if there was an article about it on the Technochat blog. Courtney On Sep 1, 2011, at 1:53 PM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: > Hello everybody > > I have just ordered us a Jawbone Jambox Bluetooth speaker system. If anybody is interested we may make this the first article in the upcoming "Techno-Chat Blog". > > Gordon has already started work on the Techno-Chat website; we are looking for articles by members and podcasts too if anybody is interested. The subject material only needs to be things with an emphasis on technology. We will very soon be adding the Techno-Chat podcast to the iTunes store. > > Lynne > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- ======================================= The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html Or: you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: --------------------------------------- From gordon at mac-access.net Fri Sep 2 09:58:14 2011 From: gordon at mac-access.net (Gordon Smith) Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2011 09:58:14 +0100 Subject: Jawbone Jambox Is Here! Message-ID: Hi all Subject line says it all. To my utter astonishment, the doorbell rang ar 07:45 this morning even before my dear lady had surfaced from the shower room. The man at the door handed me a package containing two Apple blue tooth keyboards and a Jawbone Jambox. I haven't had a chance to play with it yet, or even open the box, I wanted to wait until my dear heart was present. After all it was she who so generously bought me the gift so why should she not participate in the adventure! Anyway, although it apparently set us back ?159.00 GBP, it's here and I'm just waiting for her to complete her day's work and then it's playtime. I think she's working from home this afternoon on admin as she usually does on a Friday. But that said, there are more kids there than usual this week because the summer fun isn't quite over yet. The schools don't go back until next week so today is the final day of our busiest time of year. Anyway I will see what I can make of the Jambox and then publish. This is giving me the incentive I needed to start the new blog actually. More later. Gordon From lynne at mac-access.net Fri Sep 2 20:10:40 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2011 20:10:40 +0100 Subject: Jambox, First Impressions Message-ID: <4BD016D2-C34C-44D0-9F4E-88887D4C86E1@mac-access.net> Hello everybody Gordon and I just unpacked and powered up the JamBox. First things first, the package is amazingly different. You have to be a bit careful when unpacking it because the plastic case is the box as well. Actually the packaging method is very Apple-like. When you take the JamBox out of its box, it's partially charged so you can try it out right away. You can charge the thing either from the wall charger, (takes 2.5 hours for a full charge), or from a USB port on your computer/hub (if capable). Turning on the JamBox, you get a series of lights that flash to indicate diagnostics and connectivity. Pairing is very easy, it's just a matter of holding down the on/off switch (in the Up position (up = On))) for about 3 seconds. Then pair in the usual way with your phone/computer. We paired it with an iPhone and then proceeded to play some music. Wow! Wow! This thing packs a punch! The audio is amazing and so is its interaction with a mobile phone. You can use it as a speaker phone, place calls using its talking dialler app and a lot more. If anybody is interested in more details we will do a full review. Lynne From grtdane at internode.on.net Sat Sep 3 03:48:11 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2011 12:48:11 +1000 Subject: Captain GPS: The first GPS device with voice features and without display | ITech and Gadget Diary Message-ID: <7B2F9C21-FCB3-42B9-BC00-AD112DDEAD06@internode.on.net> I like the sound of this "Stand-Alone" GPS devices, has anyone used one? They're available in Australia. http://www.itechdiary.com/captain-gps-the-first-gps-device-with-voice-features-and-without-display.html From grtdane at internode.on.net Sat Sep 3 03:55:06 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2011 12:55:06 +1000 Subject: My new Laptop Computer Message-ID: <7E04C9B4-4610-4A3A-87A3-56FE05050DC3@internode.on.net> Hi everyone! Now please don't think I'm boasting as I'm certainly not , I just thought others may be interested in the new computer I bought. Firstly because of the price, under $800.00 U.S. and given the specs below? Well I thought it an absolute bargain! The sound is very good too! So here are the specs for those who are interested and I forgot to mention the built-in camera at the top of the screen and the microphone . > product name: DV6-2119tx > product number: wf606pa > Processor: 1.6ghz Core I7 720QM (6mb cache). > memory: 4gb (Max 4gb). > Graphics: nvidia gt230m (1gb dedicated ram). > display: 15.6in (1366x768). > hard drive: 640gb (5400rpm). > Optical drive: Blueray RW+dvd Super Multi. > modem: 56kbps fax/modem. > Network: 10/100/1000mbps. > Wireless: 802.11b/g/n, Bluetooth 2.1. > Sound: SRS Premium Sound (Altec Lansing speakers). > Built inn digital tv tuner. > keyboard/trackpad: standard keyboard plus numeric keypad, multitouch trackpad. > slots: pc card (expresscard 54/34) integrated card reader (sd/mmc/ms/mspro/xd). > ports: 4 usb 2.0 (1 shared with ESata), VGA, HDMI, IEEE1394 (firewire), RJ11 (network)/rj45 (modem), 2 headphone out, microphone in, consumer ir, digital antenna. > operating system: windows 7 Home premium 32 bit. This HP model isn't the latest one, its about 12 months old. I also received a premium leather carry case for the machine into the bargain plus delivery to my door. I can upgrade to Windows Home Premium 64-bit for an additional $30.00 but since I don't run anything in particular that uses 64-bit? Well I won't bother for the moment. From lynne at mac-access.net Sat Sep 3 10:43:58 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2011 10:43:58 +0100 Subject: The mercies of Windows Message-ID: hello everybody I think that everybody on this list probably knows how Gordon and I feel generally regarding all things Microsoft. However, I have been using VoiceOver deliberately for a couple of hours this morning as I often do, just to keep my hand in. And I have to say that I am becoming frustrated by the "busy" "busy" messages in Safari. I am now deliberately trying also to become familiar with using Windows 7 with speech, owing to the fact that I want to be able to write my upcoming article for the upcoming Techno-Chat blog, which I'm still trying to think of a good title for. But I want this article to be based on the experience of accessibility tools on the part of those such as myself who don't depend upon them. Much has been written regarding the various screen-readers available for both Mac and PC, and I want to try as much as I can before I put this article together as I want it to be based on absolute fairness and totally devoid of bias of any kind, for or against any OS or accessibility solution. Reading the message that Dane posted earlier to the group about his new toy reminded me that I haven't yet got properly started on this; so it's high time I did. I will be using Microsoft Windows 7/64 as a base OS. I can tell you based on my very limited activities so far with a screen-reader under that OS that the difference in performance between 32 and 64-bit using speech only is startling. In fact I am concluding that having a high spec machine and running a low spec operating system is actually very wasteful, not to mention debilitating. Obviously its entirely down to personal decision; but running a 64-bit hardware-based machine with a 32-bit operating system is a bit like running a Role Royce car with an engine designed for a Mini. It's a waste. But that's only my take. The performance improvement is noticeable even when running things like Jarte Plus, FireFox 6 or even Internet Explorer 9. Anyway, to the point. I am looking for ideas as to the best things to try in order to get a good overview of accessibility under Windows to start with. I hope, at a later time, to explore VINUX; but that will have to wait a while as we don't have the right hardware at the moment to use it properly. Our NetBook is currently out of commission, as Windows crashed shouting about hardware changes, just after running Windows Update. So lord only knows what we're going to do about that since I can't even get at the so-called recovery partition. So for the moment I'm sticking to Windows. Any suggestions, comments or other ideas are welcome. Lynne From d.griffith at btinternet.com Sat Sep 3 11:07:06 2011 From: d.griffith at btinternet.com (David Griffith) Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2011 11:07:06 +0100 Subject: Captain GPS: The first GPS device with voice features and without display | ITech and Gadget Diary In-Reply-To: <7B2F9C21-FCB3-42B9-BC00-AD112DDEAD06@internode.on.net> References: <7B2F9C21-FCB3-42B9-BC00-AD112DDEAD06@internode.on.net> Message-ID: <8CA3C8F3-E315-4B22-B9F1-8CF4E7F0A1A3@btinternet.com> I bought one earlier this year and to be honest it was a complete waste of money. Essentially it was fraught with problems The main problem is that it relies on poor speech recognition for voice operator controls. This would not be so much of a problem if there were options to insert a post code or address manually. In theory you could do this with a web site with the device connected. I found the site feature completely inaccessible using Jaws on a Windows platform. I rang the Hi tech team at the RNIB to try and get support on this but they never found a solution. It would take about 30 attempts to recognise a street name like Wood street for example. I completely failed after dozens of attempts to get it to recognise several roads in my vicinity Unfortunately I spent so long waiting for feedback and help from the RNIB for this product that it went beyond the time I could send it back and get my money back. Just in case it was my diction and accent it had a problem with I got others to try it with similar results. I wish I had never wasted my money on it. Regards David Griffith d.griffith at btinternet.com On 3 Sep 2011, at 03:48, Dane Trethowan wrote: > I like the sound of this "Stand-Alone" GPS devices, has anyone used one? > > They're available in Australia. > > http://www.itechdiary.com/captain-gps-the-first-gps-device-with-voice-features-and-without-display.html > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- From d.griffith at btinternet.com Sat Sep 3 11:29:26 2011 From: d.griffith at btinternet.com (David Griffith) Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2011 11:29:26 +0100 Subject: The mercies of Windows In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <407C2E3A-4552-4FBD-8886-037056A363CE@btinternet.com> I would include the free NVDA screenreader as part of your study. I have se up Windows 7 under VM Fusion in order to retain access to my must have utilities whilst I make the transition to the Mac. Although NVDA is free it sometimes outperforms the Jaws 11 screenreader I am using. Some programs which are inaccessible with Jaws are perfectly accessible with NVDA. The reverse is true so it is generally a good idea to have at least a free 40 minute demo version of jaws alongside NVDA if you want to go the free route. The other advantage of NVDA is that it can be run portably on any Windows system without having to install special drivers. Similar points have also been made about the free SA to Go screen reader which runs from a web connection. I have not found it necessary to use this as NVDA meets all my portable needs. Regards David Griffith David Griffith d.griffith at btinternet.com On 3 Sep 2011, at 10:43, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: > hello everybody > > I think that everybody on this list probably knows how Gordon and I feel generally regarding all things Microsoft. However, I have been using VoiceOver deliberately for a couple of hours this morning as I often do, just to keep my hand in. And I have to say that I am becoming frustrated by the "busy" "busy" messages in Safari. > > I am now deliberately trying also to become familiar with using Windows 7 with speech, owing to the fact that I want to be able to write my upcoming article for the upcoming Techno-Chat blog, which I'm still trying to think of a good title for. But I want this article to be based on the experience of accessibility tools on the part of those such as myself who don't depend upon them. > > Much has been written regarding the various screen-readers available for both Mac and PC, and I want to try as much as I can before I put this article together as I want it to be based on absolute fairness and totally devoid of bias of any kind, for or against any OS or accessibility solution. > > Reading the message that Dane posted earlier to the group about his new toy reminded me that I haven't yet got properly started on this; so it's high time I did. > > I will be using Microsoft Windows 7/64 as a base OS. I can tell you based on my very limited activities so far with a screen-reader under that OS that the difference in performance between 32 and 64-bit using speech only is startling. In fact I am concluding that having a high spec machine and running a low spec operating system is actually very wasteful, not to mention debilitating. Obviously its entirely down to personal decision; but running a 64-bit hardware-based machine with a 32-bit operating system is a bit like running a Role Royce car with an engine designed for a Mini. It's a waste. But that's only my take. The performance improvement is noticeable even when running things like Jarte Plus, FireFox 6 or even Internet Explorer 9. > > Anyway, to the point. I am looking for ideas as to the best things to try in order to get a good overview of accessibility under Windows to start with. I hope, at a later time, to explore VINUX; but that will have to wait a while as we don't have the right hardware at the moment to use it properly. Our NetBook is currently out of commission, as Windows crashed shouting about hardware changes, just after running Windows Update. So lord only knows what we're going to do about that since I can't even get at the so-called recovery partition. > > So for the moment I'm sticking to Windows. Any suggestions, comments or other ideas are welcome. > > Lynne > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- From grtdane at internode.on.net Sat Sep 3 12:17:26 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2011 21:17:26 +1000 Subject: Captain GPS: The first GPS device with voice features and without display | ITech and Gadget Diary In-Reply-To: <8CA3C8F3-E315-4B22-B9F1-8CF4E7F0A1A3@btinternet.com> References: <7B2F9C21-FCB3-42B9-BC00-AD112DDEAD06@internode.on.net> <8CA3C8F3-E315-4B22-B9F1-8CF4E7F0A1A3@btinternet.com> Message-ID: <4E620CC6.10601@internode.on.net> Thank you for this information. I myself know little of Captain GPS apart from the fact that one of the blindness agendy's here is apparently selling the item in Australia though how successful Captain GPS has been with their clients is another story, I can only conclude therefore that if the device was a complete waste of time then I'm fairly sure that Vision Australia wouldn't persist with it and certainly wouldn't demonstrate Captain GPS - as well as give practical demonstration of the device, I got information on Captain GPS from someone who attended the "Techspo" and got a demosntration of the unit thus I used Google to track down the link I posted. I thought I'd seen a review of the device somewhere, may be it was Blind Cool Tech? Apparently not. On 3/09/2011 8:07 PM, David Griffith wrote: > I bought one > earlier this year and to be honest it was a complete waste of money. Essentially it was fraught with problems The main problem is that it relies on poor speech recognition for voice operator controls. This would not be so much of a problem if there were options to insert a post code or address manually. In theory you could do this with a web site with the device connected. I found the site feature completely inaccessible using Jaws on a Windows platform. I rang the Hi tech team at the RNIB to try and get support on this but they never found a solution. It would take about 30 attempts to recognise a street name like Wood street for example. I completely failed after dozens of attempts to get it to recognise several roads in my vicinity Unfortunately I spent so long waiting for feedback and help from the RNIB for this product that it went beyond the time I could send it back and get my money back. > Just in case it was my diction and accent it had a problem with I got others to try it with similar results. > I wish I had never wasted my money on it. > > Regards > > David Griffith > d.griffith at btinternet.com > > > > On 3 Sep 2011, at 03:48, Dane Trethowan wrote: > >> I like the sound of this "Stand-Alone" GPS devices, has anyone used one? >> >> They're available in Australia. >> >> http://www.itechdiary.com/captain-gps-the-first-gps-device-with-voice-features-and-without-display.html >> >> >> ======================================= >> >> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free >> >> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat >> >> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: >> >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html >> >> Or: >> >> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: >> >> >> --------------------------------------- > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- -- Dane Trethowan Sending email from his EEEPC Netbook From lynne at mac-access.net Sat Sep 3 12:27:40 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2011 12:27:40 +0100 Subject: The mercies of Windows In-Reply-To: <407C2E3A-4552-4FBD-8886-037056A363CE@btinternet.com> References: <407C2E3A-4552-4FBD-8886-037056A363CE@btinternet.com> Message-ID: Hello David There is one name you've missed out here and to be honest, it would probably be the one I use alongside NVDA for the purposes of this experiment. That being Window-Eyes from GW Micro. Gordon has a licensed copy of WE 7.5.1 although he's distinctly unimpressed by what it has to offer as opposed to the previous version. Jaws is what I presume you mean by JFW and it is a reader which I have never even seen. As a visually abled person I only see what is available to me in the accessibility field but I think the route I will go here is to install the latest version of NVDA alongside the latest version of Window-Eyes. That should suffice for the project I am undertaking. there is actually a practical reason why I'm doing this; a friend of ours who works for Teesside University is engaged is a lecturer in computer science at the university and he was looking for somebody in my situation who would be willing to volunteer to help him compile a module on accessibility for use in the upcoming academic year by his students so I volunteered. He contacted Gordon and I because he's a friend of ours as I said and he didn't know anybody else who he could ask. We think it's good that he's interested in adding a module based around accessibility into his lectures and Gordon and I will be going over there to give a practical demonstration and a talk to one of his students' groups. I want to be as informed as possible, and that is the prime reason I'm taking this on. Of course there will be a discussion of Voiceover and Zoom on both Mac OS X and iOS as well. I want the sessions we do over there to be as broad-ranging as possible. Lynne On 3 Sep 2011, at 11:29, David Griffith wrote: I would include the free NVDA screenreader as part of your study. I have se up Windows 7 under VM Fusion in order to retain access to my must have utilities whilst I make the transition to the Mac. Although NVDA is free it sometimes outperforms the Jaws 11 screenreader I am using. Some programs which are inaccessible with Jaws are perfectly accessible with NVDA. The reverse is true so it is generally a good idea to have at least a free 40 minute demo version of jaws alongside NVDA if you want to go the free route. The other advantage of NVDA is that it can be run portably on any Windows system without having to install special drivers. Similar points have also been made about the free SA to Go screen reader which runs from a web connection. I have not found it necessary to use this as NVDA meets all my portable needs. From grtdane at internode.on.net Sat Sep 3 12:32:14 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2011 21:32:14 +1000 Subject: The mercies of Windows In-Reply-To: References: <407C2E3A-4552-4FBD-8886-037056A363CE@btinternet.com> Message-ID: <4E62103E.6060903@internode.on.net> David makes a good point and that is that NVDA is often more accessible with software than is JAWS or - believe it or not - Dindow-Eyes and these things are incredibly surprising, what if I told you that Window-Eyes and the latest version of Thunderbird email client didn't get along? Well fact is they don't, from all accounts JAWS seems to work okay with TB and certainly NVDA does and always has done - how else could I write this message . On 3/09/2011 9:27 PM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: > Hello David > > There is one name you've missed out here and to be honest, it would probably be the one I use alongside NVDA for the purposes of this experiment. That being Window-Eyes from GW Micro. Gordon has a licensed copy of WE 7.5.1 although he's distinctly unimpressed by what it has to offer as opposed to the previous version. Jaws is what I presume you mean by JFW and it is a reader which I have never even seen. As a visually abled person I only see what is available to me in the accessibility field but I think the route I will go here is to install the latest version of NVDA alongside the latest version of Window-Eyes. That should suffice for the project I am undertaking. > > there is actually a practical reason why I'm doing this; a friend of ours who works for Teesside University is engaged is a lecturer in computer science at the university and he was looking for somebody in my situation who would be willing to volunteer to help him compile a module on accessibility for use in the upcoming academic year by his students so I volunteered. He contacted Gordon and I because he's a friend of ours as I said and he didn't know anybody else who he could ask. We think it's good that he's interested in adding a module based around accessibility into his lectures and Gordon and I will be going over there to give a practical demonstration and a talk to one of his students' groups. I want to be as informed as possible, and that is the prime reason I'm taking this on. > > Of course there will be a discussion of Voiceover and Zoom on both Mac OS X and iOS as well. I want the sessions we do over there to be as broad-ranging as possible. > > Lynne > > On 3 Sep 2011, at 11:29, David Griffith wrote: > > I would include the free NVDA screenreader as part of your study. I have se up Windows 7 under VM Fusion in order to retain access to my must have utilities whilst I make the transition to the Mac. Although NVDA is free it sometimes outperforms the Jaws 11 screenreader I am using. Some programs which are inaccessible with Jaws are perfectly accessible with NVDA. The reverse is true so it is generally a good idea to have at least a free 40 minute demo version of jaws alongside NVDA if you want to go the free route. The other advantage of NVDA is that it can be run portably on any Windows system without having to install special drivers. > Similar points have also been made about the free SA to Go screen reader which runs from a web connection. I have not found it necessary to use this as NVDA meets all my portable needs. > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- -- Dane Trethowan Sending email from his EEEPC Netbook From lynne at mac-access.net Sat Sep 3 12:46:08 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2011 12:46:08 +0100 Subject: The mercies of Windows In-Reply-To: <4E62103E.6060903@internode.on.net> References: <407C2E3A-4552-4FBD-8886-037056A363CE@btinternet.com> <4E62103E.6060903@internode.on.net> Message-ID: <37CA8652-4AF8-41A0-AA6A-FBB5A0C65E0A@mac-access.net> Hello Dane Your point about Thunderbird would seem to be in direct contradiction to that which others have made elsewhere. Just as the point that whoever it was made about the AppleTV is in contradiction to what we know to be the truth. In fact according to GW Micro, Thunderbird is their client of choice for Window-Eyes 7.5 users running Windows 7. Why then would they not interact together? I don't really want to start getting mixed up in too many third party observations and, worse yet, opinions. By that I mean some of the garbage that's floating around in the clearly very polarised communities. There are those, for instance, who swear by Jaws and won't use anything else. There are those who, to the contrary, swear by WE and wo't use anything else. I'm sure the same is true of System Access, NVDA and even HAL. And that doesn't even take into account those utilities such as Zoom and SuperNova. The core of this study will be the generics, not the specifics. In other words, I'm not looking to concentrate too much on specific applications so, whilst Thunderbird will probably get a mention after testing of some sorts, I won't be spending hours on trying to find out which screen-reader works better than which with it on a specific basis. Personal opinion plays a big part in what is "best", and I don't want to get bobbed down with that. I'm only interested in what works, not what's preferred by individual users. I take the comment onboard, and appreciate it; but I can't allow personal bias one way or the other to influence the final analysis. Lynne On 3 Sep 2011, at 12:32, Dane Trethowan wrote: David makes a good point and that is that NVDA is often more accessible with software than is JAWS or - believe it or not - Dindow-Eyes and these things are incredibly surprising, what if I told you that Window-Eyes and the latest version of Thunderbird email client didn't get along? Well fact is they don't, from all accounts JAWS seems to work okay with TB and certainly NVDA does and always has done - how else could I write this message . From grtdane at internode.on.net Sat Sep 3 12:55:22 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2011 21:55:22 +1000 Subject: Accessibility of Thunderbird with WE and other Screen Readers In-Reply-To: <37CA8652-4AF8-41A0-AA6A-FBB5A0C65E0A@mac-access.net> References: <407C2E3A-4552-4FBD-8886-037056A363CE@btinternet.com> <4E62103E.6060903@internode.on.net> <37CA8652-4AF8-41A0-AA6A-FBB5A0C65E0A@mac-access.net> Message-ID: <4E6215AA.4080609@internode.on.net> Take it or leave it but I can bouch for what I'm saying. With the latest TB6 whatever the version number is now WE isn't accessible with that software, GW Micro are aware of the problem and plan to fix the issue in the next update of WE so there we are! that's been published on the GW Micro mailing list about half a dozen times in response to question other WE users have had, GW Micro suggest that Thunderbird users roll back the version of Thunderbird to 3.1. Now there are ways of course round the problem which seems to have something to do with browse mode, you but that only seems to work half of the time so its just much easier having NVDA on hand. Regardless of all this though, GW Micro should be ashamed of themselves, Thunderbird uses pretty much standard controls which can be accessed by Screen Readers. I know a blind person here who sells JAWS as part of his job, I wondered whether JAWS could access the latest TB so I asked the person I know for an explanation, he told me that if you make some adjustments to TB then everything works fine which is about what I'd expect. So no, sorry Lynne, I'm not making it up when I say that WE isn't accessible with the latest TB version, not only do subscribers to the gw-info list tell a similar tale but both my PC's relate the same sorry saga. On 3/09/2011 9:46 PM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: > Hello Dane > > Your point about Thunderbird would seem to be in direct contradiction to that which others have made elsewhere. Just as the point that whoever it was made about the AppleTV is in contradiction to what we know to be the truth. In fact according to GW Micro, Thunderbird is their client of choice for Window-Eyes 7.5 users running Windows 7. Why then would they not interact together? I don't really want to start getting mixed up in too many third party observations and, worse yet, opinions. By that I mean some of the garbage that's floating around in the clearly very polarised communities. There are those, for instance, who swear by Jaws and won't use anything else. There are those who, to the contrary, swear by WE and wo't use anything else. I'm sure the same is true of System Access, NVDA and even HAL. And that doesn't even take into account those utilities such as Zoom and SuperNova. > > The core of this study will be the generics, not the specifics. In other words, I'm not looking to concentrate too much on specific applications so, whilst Thunderbird will probably get a mention after testing of some sorts, I won't be spending hours on trying to find out which screen-reader works better than which with it on a specific basis. > > Personal opinion plays a big part in what is "best", and I don't want to get bobbed down with that. I'm only interested in what works, not what's preferred by individual users. I take the comment onboard, and appreciate it; but I can't allow personal bias one way or the other to influence the final analysis. > > Lynne > > > On 3 Sep 2011, at 12:32, Dane Trethowan wrote: > > David makes a good point and that is that NVDA is often more accessible with software than is JAWS or - believe it or not - Dindow-Eyes and these things are incredibly surprising, what if I told you that Window-Eyes and the latest version of Thunderbird email client didn't get along? Well fact is they don't, from all accounts JAWS seems to work okay with TB and certainly NVDA does and always has done - how else could I write this message. > > > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- -- Dane Trethowan Sending email from his EEEPC Netbook From lynne at mac-access.net Sat Sep 3 13:11:03 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2011 13:11:03 +0100 Subject: Accessibility of Thunderbird with WE and other Screen Readers In-Reply-To: <4E6215AA.4080609@internode.on.net> References: <407C2E3A-4552-4FBD-8886-037056A363CE@btinternet.com> <4E62103E.6060903@internode.on.net> <37CA8652-4AF8-41A0-AA6A-FBB5A0C65E0A@mac-access.net> <4E6215AA.4080609@internode.on.net> Message-ID: <5B37AE9D-A952-4F4C-A6AC-D06C73D19BDB@mac-access.net> Helo Dane I'm not accusing you of making anything up. That isn't what I said at all; so I honestly don't know where on earth you get that from. What I said, and it isn't aimed at any specific person, is that I don't want to allow personal bias or preferences to influence the content of the study. I take the comment onboard. Neither am I saying you're wrong about accessibility, so where do you get that from? I can only comment on Thunderbird by saying that on the occasion where he tried it a few weeks back, Gordon didn't have a lot of luck with the thing using Window-Eyes 7.5.0. He hasn't tried it with 7.5.51. As for your comments regarding "Standard controls", what does that mean? As I understand it, most apps use control elements defined in MS's compilers so they should be pretty much the norm. There are two exceptions I am told which use what seem to be referred too as "Non-Windows controls". One of which is SAM Broadcaster. I can't remember what the other one was but I'll ask Peter when I next speak to him. So please don't make this a personal thing. And please don't put words into my mouth. :) What I said was that I don't want to allow personal bias to impact on the results of the study. If it should be that Thunderbird isn't accessible using Window-Eyes, that's fine, I have no problem with that. But not long ago when we contacted GW Micro directly to find out which client they recommended under Windows 7, that one was top of their list. Second was Windows Mail version 15 which is part of the Windows Live suite. Lynne On 3 Sep 2011, at 12:55, Dane Trethowan wrote: Take it or leave it but I can bouch for what I'm saying. With the latest TB6 whatever the version number is now WE isn't accessible with that software, GW Micro are aware of the problem and plan to fix the issue in the next update of WE so there we are! that's been published on the GW Micro mailing list about half a dozen times in response to question other WE users have had, GW Micro suggest that Thunderbird users roll back the version of Thunderbird to 3.1. Now there are ways of course round the problem which seems to have something to do with browse mode, you but that only seems to work half of the time so its just much easier having NVDA on hand. Regardless of all this though, GW Micro should be ashamed of themselves, Thunderbird uses pretty much standard controls which can be accessed by Screen Readers. I know a blind person here who sells JAWS as part of his job, I wondered whether JAWS could access the latest TB so I asked the person I know for an explanation, he told me that if you make some adjustments to TB then everything works fine which is about what I'd expect. So no, sorry Lynne, I'm not making it up when I say that WE isn't accessible with the latest TB version, not only do subscribers to the gw-info list tell a similar tale but both my PC's relate the same sorry saga. On 3/09/2011 9:46 PM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: > Hello Dane > > Your point about Thunderbird would seem to be in direct contradiction to that which others have made elsewhere. Just as the point that whoever it was made about the AppleTV is in contradiction to what we know to be the truth. In fact according to GW Micro, Thunderbird is their client of choice for Window-Eyes 7.5 users running Windows 7. Why then would they not interact together? I don't really want to start getting mixed up in too many third party observations and, worse yet, opinions. By that I mean some of the garbage that's floating around in the clearly very polarised communities. There are those, for instance, who swear by Jaws and won't use anything else. There are those who, to the contrary, swear by WE and wo't use anything else. I'm sure the same is true of System Access, NVDA and even HAL. And that doesn't even take into account those utilities such as Zoom and SuperNova. > > The core of this study will be the generics, not the specifics. In other words, I'm not looking to concentrate too much on specific applications so, whilst Thunderbird will probably get a mention after testing of some sorts, I won't be spending hours on trying to find out which screen-reader works better than which with it on a specific basis. > > Personal opinion plays a big part in what is "best", and I don't want to get bobbed down with that. I'm only interested in what works, not what's preferred by individual users. I take the comment onboard, and appreciate it; but I can't allow personal bias one way or the other to influence the final analysis. > > Lynne > > > On 3 Sep 2011, at 12:32, Dane Trethowan wrote: > > David makes a good point and that is that NVDA is often more accessible with software than is JAWS or - believe it or not - Dindow-Eyes and these things are incredibly surprising, what if I told you that Window-Eyes and the latest version of Thunderbird email client didn't get along? Well fact is they don't, from all accounts JAWS seems to work okay with TB and certainly NVDA does and always has done - how else could I write this message. > > > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- -- Dane Trethowan Sending email from his EEEPC Netbook ======================================= The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html Or: you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: --------------------------------------- From d.griffith at btinternet.com Sat Sep 3 13:43:42 2011 From: d.griffith at btinternet.com (David Griffith) Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2011 13:43:42 +0100 Subject: The mercies of Windows In-Reply-To: References: <407C2E3A-4552-4FBD-8886-037056A363CE@btinternet.com> Message-ID: <8EDD802C-9FB7-4DCC-91A9-5EF59ADDF5A0@btinternet.com> There are supporters of both Window Eyes and Jaws. The penetration of Jaws into the screen reader market far outstrips Window Eyes Eyes though so I think you should perhaps reconsider excluding it to provide best context for your study . I have not got the stats to hand but the last time I looked at survey data jaws continued to have over 70% usage compared to other screen readers. This of course does not mean that it is a superior product. These survey findings have been hotly discussed on other lists and people argue, perhaps reasonably that Jaws dominance is perhaps due to technology assessors not looking beyond the Jaws option. Fortunately it is feasible to use Jaws as a free resource . Any version of Jaws after I think Jaws 7 can be downloaded and used as a time unlimited 40 minute demo. This is why nowadays it is perfectly feasible to use Jaws in conjunction with a free option. Things may have changed on the Windows Eyes front but the last time I looked the 30 minute demo was a time limited feature. I hope that this is no longer the case. .. David Griffith d.griffith at btinternet.com On 3 Sep 2011, at 12:27, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: > Hello David > > There is one name you've missed out here and to be honest, it would probably be the one I use alongside NVDA for the purposes of this experiment. That being Window-Eyes from GW Micro. Gordon has a licensed copy of WE 7.5.1 although he's distinctly unimpressed by what it has to offer as opposed to the previous version. Jaws is what I presume you mean by JFW and it is a reader which I have never even seen. As a visually abled person I only see what is available to me in the accessibility field but I think the route I will go here is to install the latest version of NVDA alongside the latest version of Window-Eyes. That should suffice for the project I am undertaking. > > there is actually a practical reason why I'm doing this; a friend of ours who works for Teesside University is engaged is a lecturer in computer science at the university and he was looking for somebody in my situation who would be willing to volunteer to help him compile a module on accessibility for use in the upcoming academic year by his students so I volunteered. He contacted Gordon and I because he's a friend of ours as I said and he didn't know anybody else who he could ask. We think it's good that he's interested in adding a module based around accessibility into his lectures and Gordon and I will be going over there to give a practical demonstration and a talk to one of his students' groups. I want to be as informed as possible, and that is the prime reason I'm taking this on. > > Of course there will be a discussion of Voiceover and Zoom on both Mac OS X and iOS as well. I want the sessions we do over there to be as broad-ranging as possible. > > Lynne > > On 3 Sep 2011, at 11:29, David Griffith wrote: > > I would include the free NVDA screenreader as part of your study. I have se up Windows 7 under VM Fusion in order to retain access to my must have utilities whilst I make the transition to the Mac. Although NVDA is free it sometimes outperforms the Jaws 11 screenreader I am using. Some programs which are inaccessible with Jaws are perfectly accessible with NVDA. The reverse is true so it is generally a good idea to have at least a free 40 minute demo version of jaws alongside NVDA if you want to go the free route. The other advantage of NVDA is that it can be run portably on any Windows system without having to install special drivers. > Similar points have also been made about the free SA to Go screen reader which runs from a web connection. I have not found it necessary to use this as NVDA meets all my portable needs. > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- From lynne at mac-access.net Sat Sep 3 14:49:38 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2011 14:49:38 +0100 Subject: The mercies of Windows In-Reply-To: <8EDD802C-9FB7-4DCC-91A9-5EF59ADDF5A0@btinternet.com> References: <407C2E3A-4552-4FBD-8886-037056A363CE@btinternet.com> <8EDD802C-9FB7-4DCC-91A9-5EF59ADDF5A0@btinternet.com> Message-ID: <9E1350EC-8A3C-45CA-B1C1-245C69483BAF@mac-access.net> Hello David Regarding your last point, you are mistaken about the 30-minute demo being time limited. It never has been as I understand it. The limitation is that it works only once in a single session; but you can reboot as often as you like for as long as you like and use it for 30 minutes. So says the GW Micro website. Also there is a 6-days evaluation license available in which you can use the software as extensively as you wish. But that really isn't a prt of the project. Market share is totally irrelevant to the specific study I am hoping to undertake. Also there is one important factor which must be taken into account. Because I have never used Jaws and, therefore, have no knowledge as to how to use it to the best of its capabilities, I am a little reluctant to do so. I would prefer not to undertake that side of the study because I simply don't have the experience. It has been made all too obvious in the last few hours by virtue of content which was placed on the sister list, mac Access, what happens if you try to draw conclusions without having the knowledge. The data provided can often be misleading and grossly unfair. I am keen not to make that mistake and, therefore, I think it best to stick to what I know something about. There is also another reason why I'm leaning towards precluding Jaws from this experiment. Jaws relies quite heavily, as I understand it, on paid-for-access scripting in order to make many applications function properly. Since I'd only be using a demo, I'm not in a position to play around with these scripts and, therefore, results would be tainted. Although I am not sure as to the validity of your statistics in the current marketplace. I haven't studied them but it seems to me that Jaws is rapidly losing ground to the other cheaper and equally usable applications. On a personal note we have good reason to avoid Jaws; although that isn't part of my thinking in terms of this project. Lynne On 3 Sep 2011, at 13:43, David Griffith wrote: There are supporters of both Window Eyes and Jaws. The penetration of Jaws into the screen reader market far outstrips Window Eyes Eyes though so I think you should perhaps reconsider excluding it to provide best context for your study . I have not got the stats to hand but the last time I looked at survey data jaws continued to have over 70% usage compared to other screen readers. This of course does not mean that it is a superior product. These survey findings have been hotly discussed on other lists and people argue, perhaps reasonably that Jaws dominance is perhaps due to technology assessors not looking beyond the Jaws option. Fortunately it is feasible to use Jaws as a free resource . Any version of Jaws after I think Jaws 7 can be downloaded and used as a time unlimited 40 minute demo. This is why nowadays it is perfectly feasible to use Jaws in conjunction with a free option. Things may have changed on the Windows Eyes front but the last time I looked the 30 minute demo was a time limited feature. I hope that this is no longer the case. .. David Griffith d.griffith at btinternet.com On 3 Sep 2011, at 12:27, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: > Hello David > > There is one name you've missed out here and to be honest, it would probably be the one I use alongside NVDA for the purposes of this experiment. That being Window-Eyes from GW Micro. Gordon has a licensed copy of WE 7.5.1 although he's distinctly unimpressed by what it has to offer as opposed to the previous version. Jaws is what I presume you mean by JFW and it is a reader which I have never even seen. As a visually abled person I only see what is available to me in the accessibility field but I think the route I will go here is to install the latest version of NVDA alongside the latest version of Window-Eyes. That should suffice for the project I am undertaking. > > there is actually a practical reason why I'm doing this; a friend of ours who works for Teesside University is engaged is a lecturer in computer science at the university and he was looking for somebody in my situation who would be willing to volunteer to help him compile a module on accessibility for use in the upcoming academic year by his students so I volunteered. He contacted Gordon and I because he's a friend of ours as I said and he didn't know anybody else who he could ask. We think it's good that he's interested in adding a module based around accessibility into his lectures and Gordon and I will be going over there to give a practical demonstration and a talk to one of his students' groups. I want to be as informed as possible, and that is the prime reason I'm taking this on. > > Of course there will be a discussion of Voiceover and Zoom on both Mac OS X and iOS as well. I want the sessions we do over there to be as broad-ranging as possible. > > Lynne > > On 3 Sep 2011, at 11:29, David Griffith wrote: > > I would include the free NVDA screenreader as part of your study. I have se up Windows 7 under VM Fusion in order to retain access to my must have utilities whilst I make the transition to the Mac. Although NVDA is free it sometimes outperforms the Jaws 11 screenreader I am using. Some programs which are inaccessible with Jaws are perfectly accessible with NVDA. The reverse is true so it is generally a good idea to have at least a free 40 minute demo version of jaws alongside NVDA if you want to go the free route. The other advantage of NVDA is that it can be run portably on any Windows system without having to install special drivers. > Similar points have also been made about the free SA to Go screen reader which runs from a web connection. I have not found it necessary to use this as NVDA meets all my portable needs. > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- ======================================= The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html Or: you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: --------------------------------------- From eric_caron at Mac-Access.net Sat Sep 3 15:13:53 2011 From: eric_caron at Mac-Access.net (Eric Caron) Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2011 10:13:53 -0400 Subject: Windows clone backup solution Message-ID: <347C7C10-2106-4C2C-B8BD-56A9FC1E44A9@Mac-Access.net> Hi Lynne and others, I'm still seeking a backup solution for my Windows 7 Bootcamp partition. Lynne, you mentioned Dane suggested a application on the Windows side. Can you give me some details on the application and if if it can make a clone to a hard disk like CCC does? I'll use the Windows side for the windows partition if I have to. I'm still figuring this out. eric Caron Below part of a note from Lynne "I'm not going to go down the road of Windows backup utilities; but there is one which we were recommended by Dane actually and it seems to be quite good. It runs under Windows; so I won't talk about it here. I'll gladly do so on Techno-chat if those who are members are interested." From lynne at mac-access.net Sat Sep 3 15:33:40 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2011 15:33:40 +0100 Subject: Windows clone backup solution In-Reply-To: <347C7C10-2106-4C2C-B8BD-56A9FC1E44A9@Mac-Access.net> References: <347C7C10-2106-4C2C-B8BD-56A9FC1E44A9@Mac-Access.net> Message-ID: <21D56A4E-CB33-49F1-835A-14820D1558EE@mac-access.net> hello Eric http://terabyteunlimited.com/ Fro memory that might take you to where you need to be. Lynne On 3 Sep 2011, at 15:13, Eric Caron wrote: Hi Lynne and others, I'm still seeking a backup solution for my Windows 7 Bootcamp partition. Lynne, you mentioned Dane suggested a application on the Windows side. Can you give me some details on the application and if if it can make a clone to a hard disk like CCC does? I'll use the Windows side for the windows partition if I have to. I'm still figuring this out. eric Caron Below part of a note from Lynne "I'm not going to go down the road of Windows backup utilities; but there is one which we were recommended by Dane actually and it seems to be quite good. It runs under Windows; so I won't talk about it here. I'll gladly do so on Techno-chat if those who are members are interested." ======================================= The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html Or: you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: --------------------------------------- From chris.hallsworth at techno-chat.net Sat Sep 3 17:08:16 2011 From: chris.hallsworth at techno-chat.net (chris hallsworth) Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2011 17:08:16 +0100 Subject: The mercies of Windows In-Reply-To: <8EDD802C-9FB7-4DCC-91A9-5EF59ADDF5A0@btinternet.com> References: <407C2E3A-4552-4FBD-8886-037056A363CE@btinternet.com> <8EDD802C-9FB7-4DCC-91A9-5EF59ADDF5A0@btinternet.com> Message-ID: <4E6250F0.7090805@techno-chat.net> Window-Eyes is a time unlimited 30 minute demo. It has been like this since 4.2 or possibly lower. 4.2 was the first ever version I tried. At that time it was rubbish but wow, look at 7.5 or even 7.5.1! On 03/09/2011 13:43, David Griffith wrote: > There are supporters of both Window > Eyes and Jaws. The penetration of Jaws into the screen reader market far outstrips Window Eyes Eyes though so I think you should perhaps reconsider excluding it to provide best context for your study . > I have not got the stats to hand but the last time I looked at survey data jaws continued to have over 70% usage compared to other screen readers. This of course does not mean that it is a superior product. These survey findings have been hotly discussed on other lists and people argue, perhaps reasonably that Jaws dominance is perhaps due to technology assessors not looking beyond the Jaws option. Fortunately it is feasible to use Jaws as a free resource . Any version of Jaws after I think Jaws 7 can be downloaded and used as a time unlimited 40 minute demo. This is why nowadays it is perfectly feasible to use Jaws in conjunction with a free option. Things may have changed on the Windows Eyes front but the last time I looked the 30 minute demo was a time limited feature. I hope that this is no longer the case. .. > David Griffith > d.griffith at btinternet.com > > > > On 3 Sep 2011, at 12:27, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: > >> Hello David >> >> There is one name you've missed out here and to be honest, it would probably be the one I use alongside NVDA for the purposes of this experiment. That being Window-Eyes from GW Micro. Gordon has a licensed copy of WE 7.5.1 although he's distinctly unimpressed by what it has to offer as opposed to the previous version. Jaws is what I presume you mean by JFW and it is a reader which I have never even seen. As a visually abled person I only see what is available to me in the accessibility field but I think the route I will go here is to install the latest version of NVDA alongside the latest version of Window-Eyes. That should suffice for the project I am undertaking. >> >> there is actually a practical reason why I'm doing this; a friend of ours who works for Teesside University is engaged is a lecturer in computer science at the university and he was looking for somebody in my situation who would be willing to volunteer to help him compile a module on accessibility for use in the upcoming academic year by his students so I volunteered. He contacted Gordon and I because he's a friend of ours as I said and he didn't know anybody else who he could ask. We think it's good that he's interested in adding a module based around accessibility into his lectures and Gordon and I will be going over there to give a practical demonstration and a talk to one of his students' groups. I want to be as informed as possible, and that is the prime reason I'm taking this on. >> >> Of course there will be a discussion of Voiceover and Zoom on both Mac OS X and iOS as well. I want the sessions we do over there to be as broad-ranging as possible. >> >> Lynne >> >> On 3 Sep 2011, at 11:29, David Griffith wrote: >> >> I would include the free NVDA screenreader as part of your study. I have se up Windows 7 under VM Fusion in order to retain access to my must have utilities whilst I make the transition to the Mac. Although NVDA is free it sometimes outperforms the Jaws 11 screenreader I am using. Some programs which are inaccessible with Jaws are perfectly accessible with NVDA. The reverse is true so it is generally a good idea to have at least a free 40 minute demo version of jaws alongside NVDA if you want to go the free route. The other advantage of NVDA is that it can be run portably on any Windows system without having to install special drivers. >> Similar points have also been made about the free SA to Go screen reader which runs from a web connection. I have not found it necessary to use this as NVDA meets all my portable needs. >> >> >> ======================================= >> >> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free >> >> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat >> >> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: >> >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html >> >> Or: >> >> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: >> >> >> --------------------------------------- > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- > From grtdane at internode.on.net Sun Sep 4 02:51:35 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2011 11:51:35 +1000 Subject: Captain GPS or Captain Plus Message-ID: Hi! I'm none the wiser here, I mentioned the Captain GPS system in a previous post and yet one of my Twitter followers refers to it as the Captain Plus. I looked it up on Google and sure enough, there's a "Captain Plus" listed, it would appear the Leader Dogs in the U.S.A. have had a lot to do with its development and use the Captain Plus frequently with their clients. Anyway the following link may answer any further questions. http://www.accessibleworld.org/content-253 From chris.hallsworth at techno-chat.net Sun Sep 4 23:14:46 2011 From: chris.hallsworth at techno-chat.net (chris hallsworth) Date: Sun, 04 Sep 2011 23:14:46 +0100 Subject: Winmount Message-ID: <4E63F856.5030409@techno-chat.net> Chris Hallsworth Sent from Thunderbird I have treated myself to this $49 program after my special day today which will not be discussed here. Here is an introduction to what the program can do, copied and pasted from the documentation that comes with the program. Introduction Winmount is a powerful windows utility which is dedicated to managing files and disks impressively and conveniently. It's a compression tool, also a virtual disk tool ( Mount RAR ZIP MOU and CD DVD HDD images as virtual disk/folder ). The most characteristic feature is virtualizing compressed archives. That is mounting compressed archives to a virtual disk or a virtual folder without decompression, all actions are taken in a virtual path, protect hard disk, save space. Supported formats: MOU, RAR, ZIP, 7Z, CAB, ARJ, ISO, GZ, BZ2, TAR, WIM, ISO, BIN, BWT, MDS/MDF, NRG, IMG, ISZ, CUE, CCD, APE, FLAC, WV, VHD, VDI, VMDK. WinMount format ? MOU: A highly and fastly compressed format. It's completely free, that means it can be used or published for personal, commercial or govermental purpose. ? WMT: A storage HDD format, it can be encrypted, used for data storage. ? WinMount is the only one to open MOU and WMT. At an appropriate time, MOU and WMT will open their API or source code. WinMount feature list 1) Compress ZIP/7Z/ISO/MOU ( support spliting to volumes ); 2) Decompress ( smart extract ), browse and modify RAR/ZIP/7Z/ISO/MOU/CAB/ARJ/GZ/BZ2/TAR/WIM; 3) Convert RAR, ZIP, 7Z, CAB, ARJ, ISO, GZ, BZ2, TAR, WIM to MOU; 4) Add comment and magic page to compressed archives; 5) Mount RAR/ZIP/MOU to virtual disk without decompression, protect hard disk, save space; 6) Quick mount ZIP/MOU/WIM to current path as a virtual folder; 7) Mount ISO, CUE/BIN, CCD, BWT, MDS/MDF, NRG, IMG, ISZ to virtual DVD-ROM; 8) Mount APE, FLAC, WV to virtual CD-ROM; 9) Mount VHD(Virtual PC), VDI(Virtual Box), VMDK(VMWare) to virtual HDD; 10) Mount microsoft WIM to virtual HDD; 11) Mount folder to virtual HDD; 12) Create blank disk, data will not be saved, the same as RAM-disk; 13) Create blank disk, data can be saved as WMT The program is not perfectly accessible, especially the 64 bit version, however it is certainly usable. How I know this well you can try it out for free for apparently 15 days but according to the help it only displays a notification window when trying to mount. So not sure if it actually expires or it's just nagging the user to buy the program after they have used it for a while. Anyway the website is www.winmount.com. From eric_caron at Mac-Access.net Mon Sep 5 00:37:43 2011 From: eric_caron at Mac-Access.net (Eric Caron) Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2011 19:37:43 -0400 Subject: Jambox, First Impressions In-Reply-To: <4BD016D2-C34C-44D0-9F4E-88887D4C86E1@mac-access.net> References: <4BD016D2-C34C-44D0-9F4E-88887D4C86E1@mac-access.net> Message-ID: <0D5FA287-2B0B-48C5-B65C-DA2A3ABB2905@Mac-Access.net> Hi lynne and Gordon, Just wanted you to know I'm keeping track of the Jawbone Jam Box info as I'm definitely considering putting this on my wish list. Instead of asking lots of questions I'll wait for the podcast! Eric Caron of questions On Sep 2, 2011, at 3:10 PM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: > Hello everybody > > Gordon and I just unpacked and powered up the JamBox. First things first, the package is amazingly different. You have to be a bit careful when unpacking it because the plastic case is the box as well. Actually the packaging method is very Apple-like. > > When you take the JamBox out of its box, it's partially charged so you can try it out right away. You can charge the thing either from the wall charger, (takes 2.5 hours for a full charge), or from a USB port on your computer/hub (if capable). > > Turning on the JamBox, you get a series of lights that flash to indicate diagnostics and connectivity. Pairing is very easy, it's just a matter of holding down the on/off switch (in the Up position (up = On))) for about 3 seconds. Then pair in the usual way with your phone/computer. We paired it with an iPhone and then proceeded to play some music. Wow! Wow! This thing packs a punch! The audio is amazing and so is its interaction with a mobile phone. You can use it as a speaker phone, place calls using its talking dialler app and a lot more. > > If anybody is interested in more details we will do a full review. > > Lynne > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- From chris.hallsworth at techno-chat.net Mon Sep 5 16:18:41 2011 From: chris.hallsworth at techno-chat.net (chris hallsworth) Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2011 16:18:41 +0100 Subject: Windows 8, what we know so far Message-ID: <4E64E851.4020508@techno-chat.net> Hello all. Here is an article I copied and pasted from another list about what we know so far about the upcoming Windows 8. I am going to warn you in advance that I do not have a source to the article. So I hope this is ok. If not then I sincerely apologize. All I know is that the article has been taken from pC World. Anyway, enjoy the article, pasted below. Details about Windows 8, Microsoft's newest operating system expected in 2012, have been leaking out thanks largely to Microsoft previews and a stream of blog posts on the company's Building Windows 8 blog. The new OS is said to be Microsoft's biggest Windows refresh since Windows 95, when desktop PCs reigned supreme and most laptops cost nearly $3000. Now, Microsoft wants to update Windows for a consumer technology world that is obsessed with online services and touch-centric devices such as the iPad and Android smartphones. Windows 8: TL;DR* (*Too Long; Didn't Read) So far, Microsoft has detailed a brand new touch interface for Windows 8 with the traditional desktop UI hiding underneath. The new OS also will run on both ARM and Intel processors, opening up a range of Windows 8-powered devices such as desktops, laptops, and tablets. Windows 8 also is expected to have an OS X-style Mac App Store, and should include further integration with Microsoft's growing range of online services such as SkyDrive, Office 365, and the free Office Web apps. Other improvements include USB 3.0 support and an overhauled version of Explorer, Windows' file management tool. Here's a look at everything we know so far about Window 8. Get in Touch With Windows 8 The most dramatic change for Windows 8 is Microsoft's emphasis on a new Windows Phone 7-inspired touch interface. Windows 8's new start screen has large panels that are ideal for touchscreens, but that also can be manipulated by a mouse. Microsoft Windows 8 start screenThe Microsoft Windows 8 start screenThe traditional Windows interface with the start button, task bar, and desktop is still available and will come up any time you load a legacy app such as Microsoft Excel 2010. You can also run new Windows 8 touchable apps alongside traditional Windows apps. Microsoft said HTML and JavaScript will be the primary development language for new Windows 8 apps. ARM and Intel Windows 8's touch-centric interface may give traditional mouse-and-keyboard desktop fans the chills, but the new UI could help Microsoft compete in the tablet arena. Starting with Windows 8, Microsoft will design its operating system to work not only with Intel's x86 chip architecture, but also with ARM processors. ARM chips are very popular in the mobile device market and should help Microsoft's partners put Windows 8 on a range of so-called post-PC devices such as tablets. An ARM processorAn ARM processorThe big question, however, is whether people will be willing to give ARM-based Windows devices a chance. Apple's iPad is the most dominant device in the new generation of one-panel touch tablets. And the consensus among critics and device makers is that people are looking for slates running mobile operating systems such as iOS, Android, and the QNX-based OS on the Blackberry PlayBook. Can Microsoft succeed in the tablet arena by offering Windows with a new touch overlay? I guess we'll find out in 2012. App Store You can expect to see an integrated app store in Windows 8 that should let you download new software for your device with just one click. Earlier in August, Microsoft revealed on the Building Windows 8 blog the details of various engineering teams working on the new OS, and the list included an "App Store" team. It's not clear what the app store team is working on, but chances are it will be a product similar to the Mac App Store available for Mac PCs running OS X 10.6 (Snow Leopard) and 10.7 (Lion). App Preview Speaking of Apps, some Microsoft partners are already hard at work designing touch-based apps for Windows 8 tablets. ZDNet uncovered a purported early design for a USA Today Windows 8 app that has a very Metro UI look and feel to it. A mock-up of a Windows 8 appA mock-up of a Windows 8 appAnother Windows 8 mock-up shows an app presumably designed with in-flight entertainment consoles in mind that offers access to news, weather, and videos. Clouds in Windows 8 Also part of Microsoft's list of Windows 8 engineering teams was a group called "Windows Online." It's not clear what that team might be doing, but there are a large number of online services that Microsoft could integrate into Windows 8, such as Office 365, Office Web Apps, Windows Live and Azure. Some integration with these so-called cloud services already exists, but there are still annoying shortcomings in Windows such as an easy way to mount your SkyDrive as a local drive accessible via Windows Explorer. Dropbox can do it, so why can't Microsoft? USB 3.0 Support USB 3.0 promises data transfer speeds that are up to 10 times faster than the current USB 2.0 standard, and USB 3.0 also uses less power than its predecessor. You can already take advantage of speedier USB 3.0 ports in Windows 7 thanks to third-party drivers. But starting with Windows 8, Microsoft plans on including native support for USB 3.0. Windows Explorer: File Management Basics The new interface for file copy information in Windows 8The new interface for file copy information in Windows 8Microsoft has spent a fair amount of time recently talking about its overhauls to Windows Explorer for the next iteration of Windows. The new Windows Explorer will improve its file management basics such as copy, move, rename, and delete functions, which make up 50 percent of Explorer's usage in Windows 7. The new interface puts all your basic file management functions into one window instead of having separate windows for each function. This will make it easier and more efficient to handle moving around several large files at once, such as photos and videos. If you're copying or moving files, you can also get an expanded view to see throughput graphs and how many bits have already been transferred. Microsoft also claims its time estimates to completion will be more accurate in Windows 8. Finally, Microsoft has improved the filename collision dialog to make it easier to figure out which files you'll be overwriting when a new file has the same name as a file already sitting in your destination folder. Exploring Ribbons The Windows 8 version of Explorer is also getting Microsoft's ribbon interface in a bid to make the file management tool more touch friendly, efficient, expose useful commands, and to reintroduce popular Explorer features from Windows XP. Microsoft has also optimized the new Explorer for widescreen displays and will add about 200 keyboard shortcuts for power users. Explorer gets the ribbon interface in Windows 8Explorer gets the ribbon interface in Windows 8.The new Windows 8 Explorer will have three main tabs--Home, Share, and View--along with a File menu on the far left side. Explorer's primary Home tab in Windows 8 includes 84 percent of the commands users employ most often, Microsoft says, such as "Move to" and "Copy to" for moving and copying files. Microsoft has also exposed the command "Copy path" for people who want to paste a file path into another Explorer window to access a file quickly or email a link to a file sitting on a corporate server. The Share tab offers one-click access to the "Email" and "Zip" commands, as well as other options such as "Burn to disc," print and, in a nod to the 1990s, fax. The new Explorer will also show you who has access to a currently selected file on your HomeGroup or enterprise network. Explorer's new File menu gives power users quick access to the command prompt as well as an option to open the command prompt as an administrator. Both options open a C prompt with the file path set to your currently selected folder such as My Documents or Desktop. There are also contextual menus in Windows 8's Explorer that only show up when you are doing specific tasks. If you open up Explorer to look at photos, for example, under the "Manage" tab you'll see options to rotate the currently selected photo, start a slideshow, or set a photo as your background. Opening up an Explorer window to look at your computer's connected drives will give you options to format, optimize, and clean up your hard drive, eject an external thumb drive, or activate Windows' Autoplay feature. Windows 8's Explorer will also include XP's 'Up' button that allows you to move backwards through your file directories. That's all for now, but Microsoft is expected to reveal more details about Windows 8 during the company's BUILD conference that starts September 13 in Anaheim, CA. We'll keep an eye on From grtdane at internode.on.net Mon Sep 5 18:40:15 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2011 03:40:15 +1000 Subject: Tune-Up Utilities 2012 Message-ID: Hi there! I've been using Tune-Up Utilities 2011 for quite some time, got it in a bundle with Vipre Anti Virus about 6 months ago. I like the software as it reminds me very much of the distant past, remember when Norton Utilities was one of those "Must Have" suites of utilities? We're talking of the days before Symantec got their mits on the product and ruined it . Remember when each utility did exactly what its name suggested it would do? The "System Information" utility gave you information about your system and aloud you to perform dynostic tests, "Disk Doctor" allowed you to examine and fix common drive problems etc? Well those days are back with Tune-Up Utilities plus heaps more, an auto "1 Click Maintanence" utility which you can customise to your liking, a fully integrated "Control Centre" to make things simple for those who don't wish to use the utilities individually etc. Those who already own Tune-Up Utilities are being offered a sneak preview of the Tune-Up Utilities 2012 suite, I've just ordered and downloaded this so I'll be most interested to see what it offers and how it performs, has a special optimisation wizard for portable computers apparently . Tune-Up Utilities is officially released in October this year. And finally, the great news about Tune-Up Utilities is that the software is very much accessible, in places you may need to use the mouse pointer or JAWS cursor, that's the only drawback I've found thus far. From grtdane at internode.on.net Tue Sep 6 02:12:28 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2011 11:12:28 +1000 Subject: Tune-Up Utilities 2012 Correction Message-ID: <4E65737C.4080701@internode.on.net> Sorry folks, I miss-understood the email I received regarding Tune-Up Utilities 2012, I was under the impression that registered users of the software got a sneak peak at the new version, this is in fact incorrect and I should have realised it. In fact preorders for the new version of Tune-Up Utilities are now being taken at a very heavily discounted price, when the 2012 version is released those who have preordered will be given download instructions so sorry if I got anyone's hopes up References: <4BD016D2-C34C-44D0-9F4E-88887D4C86E1@mac-access.net> <0D5FA287-2B0B-48C5-B65C-DA2A3ABB2905@Mac-Access.net> Message-ID: Hello Eric Owing to unwanted distractions we haven't yet managed to get this done. But if possible we hope too shortly. It may not be a podcast; it may just be a blog article at least in the short term. But we'll try and arrange something. Lynne On 5 Sep 2011, at 00:37, Eric Caron wrote: Just wanted you to know I'm keeping track of the Jawbone Jam Box info as I'm definitely considering putting this on my wish list. Instead of asking lots of questions I'll wait for the podcast! From lynne at mac-access.net Tue Sep 6 17:46:27 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2011 17:46:27 +0100 Subject: My latest feeble attempt at a review Message-ID: <56E902EA-7EF5-47D6-B9EE-53967B6D81B9@mac-access.net> Hello everybody OK, I tried! I have just written a very basic mini-review of the Jawbone? Jambox. We still plan to produce an audio demo of this shortly. But if you'd like to read and have a good laugh at my efforts as a reviewer, please feel free. You can find the article in its temporary home, as we haven't yet got the Techno-Chat blog established, or the reviews section. So for the time being please feel free to read it by following this URL, and I welcome your comment but please don't be too harsh! :) Lynne From lynne at mac-access.net Tue Sep 6 18:39:38 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2011 18:39:38 +0100 Subject: TrueCrypt Message-ID: <0940F530-2320-45D1-B59E-95EB9F416C29@mac-access.net> Hello everybody How many people have installed TrueCrypt on either their Mac or their PC? I am asking because if there is anybody willing, I would appreciate a little help with this off list. But I don't want to impose upon anybody so, if anybody is willing would they please let me know it and we can discuss in private. I know that Dane has installed this, and I thought I remembered reading messages from a couple of others as well. I did write to a couple of people but got no response so I presume they're either too busy or unwilling to become involved; that's fine, and it's why I'm asking now publicly. Lynne From grtdane at internode.on.net Wed Sep 7 05:05:14 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2011 14:05:14 +1000 Subject: Received my new HP Laptop today Message-ID: Hi! Subject line says it all, I previously published specs on this computer some time ago on the list. Sounds amazing, best speakers I've ever heard on a portable computer but this model has a slight annoyance that I wasn't warned about and that's probably because the general computer user community take touch strips or touch bars for granted these days. This HP model I now have has one of those right above the speakers from left to right on the laptop which controls various functions so you can I'm sure see the danger , if you're not careful what you're doing you can mute the sound or even worse! cause the computer itself to lose all connectivity, done that already and I managed to set it right in the end but I'm still unsure as to how I managed it so if I find a way - assuming there is one of course - to disable the touch strip then "Thy Will Be Done" without hesitation <. From gordon at mac-access.net Wed Sep 7 08:40:45 2011 From: gordon at mac-access.net (Gordon Smith) Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2011 08:40:45 +0100 Subject: Windows X86 Versus I386 Message-ID: Hi all Late last week I installed a new copy of Windows 7 which I bought from Microsoft online store for work purposes. Because we just upgraded our Apple MacBook Pro to 8GB of RAM and I'll be fitting a SSD in it later today I think, I opted for the X86 vernon of 7 because what a lot of manufacturers don't tell you is that the same keys work for the X86 versions as do for the I386 version. So I thought I would try an experiment and install the X86 version as a VM. I then installed the I386 version in native mode in a BC partition on the same machine so that I could benchmark performance of both versions and then decide which to keep and which to dump. I was anticipating dumping the X86 version, as I was pretty sure that the I386 version running in native mode with a full 8GB of RAM and the complete resources of the machine available to it. However, as it turned out, the absolute opposite has proven to be the case. The X86 version of 7 absolutely and totally runs the I386 version into the ground, despite the fact that the X86 installation is running inside of a virtual machine and only has 4GB of RAM allocated to it, rather than the 8GB that the I386 version had. I'm actually very very pleased about that because it's allowed me to reclaim the 60GB partition I allocated to the I386 configuration and with quite a few of my apps already installed the virtual machine's dynamic hard drive is only 14.8GB currently. I used exactly the same key for the X86 version as I did for the I386 and it works perfectly. So it would appear that people are buying laptops and allowing themselves to be conned into buying more upgrades just because they want to move to the X86 platform. But after what I've seen here with this, I am going to buy another copy shortly and install it inside of another VM on one of our two quad core Intel I7 machines. I consider it a darn right waste to put an I386 version of any operating system on to a quad core native 64-bit machine like that especially when the exact same product key works for both. I have to confess that I've been pleasantly surprised by just how stable 7 is as opposed to XP and earlier versions. Although I still firmly believe that Microsoft is about 15 years too late in terms of doing a total rewrite of their operating system, one must give credit where it's due. Finally it seems that they have produced a more or less stable client operating system. As for what will happen with the next version, that's in the lap of the gods. But I'll be amazed if they ever get around to doing the already long overdue rewrite. I've been hearing little rumours on the accessibility front regarding what everybody is currently calling "Windows 8". I'd love to think that they're true, and I'm not going to go into detail. But I honestly don't believe that there will be much change in the way accessibility is handled. It's been a "racket", with price-fixing and a rip-off culture for more years than I care to remember. I'd be amazed if that were to change any time soon. Anyway, credit where it's due. Microsoft does appear to have got something right, at last. :) Gordon From chris.hallsworth at techno-chat.net Wed Sep 7 12:49:30 2011 From: chris.hallsworth at techno-chat.net (chris hallsworth) Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2011 12:49:30 +0100 Subject: Windows 8 Blog Message-ID: <4E675A4A.8070103@techno-chat.net> Here is the official blog for anything Windows 8. http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/ From mstores at indiana.edu Wed Sep 7 14:44:56 2011 From: mstores at indiana.edu (Mary Stores) Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2011 09:44:56 -0400 Subject: New member welcome Message-ID: <20110907094456.6ncdnhrv48oo00o0@webmail.iu.edu> Hello, It's traditional that when new members join the list, we send a welcome message. So we'd like to welcome Joe Quinn to this list. If you have any questions or problems not addressed in the list policy, please feel free to contact Gordon and Lynne Smith at support at mac-access.net. You can also contact the assistant list controller, Mary Stores at mstores at indiana.edu. We hope you find this list useful. Mary From chris.hallsworth at techno-chat.net Wed Sep 7 17:11:06 2011 From: chris.hallsworth at techno-chat.net (chris hallsworth) Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2011 17:11:06 +0100 Subject: Process Lasso Message-ID: <4E67979A.9090704@techno-chat.net> I found an interesting program first heard about from a tweet from File Forum. Here is an overview copied from the documentation. Process Lasso Overview Process Lasso is an automated Windows process (program) management and optimization utility. By managing the programs running on your computer, Process Lasso increases system responsiveness and helps to prevents system stalls. It accomplishes this through our ProBalance technology. This proprietary algorithm dynamically adjusts the priorities of running programs so that some are given higher priority access to the CPU(s) than others. With Process Lasso, no longer will single, or multiple, processes be able to bring your system to a virtual stall. Process Lasso will let you keep interacting with your computer, even when it is totally swamped. In addition to the ProBalance technology, users can tweak how their programs are run. Process Lasso offers a number of unique and helpful capabilities. These include default priority classes, default CPU affinities, disallowed processes, keep running processes, per-process power schemes, a process watchdog, and process instance count limits. These features give you the ability to control how programs utilize your computer's resources based on automatic settings. With Process Lasso, you can decide exactly how you want your processes to run. Process Lasso uses virtually no system resources itself, being written in highly optimized native x32 and x64 C++. The core engine can run stand-alone and consume as little as 1-3MB of RAM. Documentation Contents 1. The Parts of Process Lasso 2. About ProBalance 1. How is my CPU shared? 2. How does ProBalance work? 3. Proof of concept 3. About CPU Throttling 4. About Gaming Mode 5. Using the Graphical User Interface (GUI) 1. The Main Window 2. Graph 1. Per-process CPU history 3. All Processes Tab 1. Select what process information to show 2. Rules column meaning 3. Single selection process context menu 4. Multiple selection process context menu 4. Active Processes Tab 1. Select what process information to show 2. Double clicking a process 3. Single selection process context menu 4. Multiple selection process context menu 5. Configuration Dialogs 1. ProBalance Options 2. Default CPU Affinities 3. Default Priorities 4. Auto-Terminate List 5. Process Watchdog 6. Instance count limits 7. Keep running processes 8. Gaming processes 9. Anti-sleep processes 10. Default Process Power Schemes 6. Main Menu Options 6. Using The Core Engine 1. Overview 2. Running as a Service 7. Using the INI Configuration File 8. Command Line Arguments 9. Advanced Tools 1. TweakScheduler 2. Vista Multimedia Scheduler Configuration Tool 10. Enterprise Deployment 1. Deployment methods 2. On a Terminal Server 3. Service mode 4. Silent installation 11. Frequently Asked Questions 12. Credits 13. Licensing All content throughout documentation (c)2011 Bitsum Technologies From grtdane at internode.on.net Fri Sep 9 02:33:14 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2011 11:33:14 +1000 Subject: Time for a new AirPrint compatible pritner Message-ID: Exactly what the subject says and I've found a printer which may suit my needs exactly and more! at the Apple Store, look for the HP Officejet Pro 8500A+ and here's where things get interesting. There are 3 models, 8500, 8500A and 8500A+ and I've no idea what the differences between those models are. It would appear that the A has faster wireless network connectivity and perhaps the A and A+ models are those which are compatible with Airprint, looked on the HP web site earlier but couldn't find much information. So down to some details, this printer is a very good quality "all-in-one" unit and its not the "cheaper" HP stuff we're talking about here, its the better quality HP gear we're referring to. Speed of printing rivals that of a laser printer and is particularly good when it comes to colour prints. Has fax, copy and scan capabilities and - given that the printer is a network device - your scans can be shared on the network, emailed to various people and so on. I was told that this machine has a touch screen and that initially concerned me but someone also said that - if you can find the device on your network - then you can set the device up as you would say a modem or VOIP adapter through a HTML interface and this sounds about right given the HP products I've had in the past, even the old Laserjet 3015 device I have here has a HTML interface to control its settings. From grtdane at internode.on.net Fri Sep 9 12:13:48 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2011 21:13:48 +1000 Subject: 9-11, The Towers and the Pentigon Message-ID: <748FFFCC-5006-441F-B2A0-2C92EEBB2AB4@internode.on.net> Hi everyone! This Weekend marks the 10th anniversary of the September 11 attacks. I'm watching a very interesting documentary right now from our cable TV service called 9-11, The Towers And The Pentagon. This documentary focuses on how the buildings were built, why the south tower collapsed more quickly than the north did and why only 10% of the pentagon sustained serious damage. The documentary discusses various elements of the World Trade centre and talks about a revolutionary engineering design of the time the building was built which prevented perhaps a bigger terror than was had by the towers falling as they did. Anyway if you have access to this documentary then I urge you to watch it if you can. Finally, sorry for those who don't consider this a topic for this list just thought that structural engineering and design was technical in nature . From chris.hallsworth at techno-chat.net Fri Sep 9 13:18:41 2011 From: chris.hallsworth at techno-chat.net (chris hallsworth) Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2011 13:18:41 +0100 Subject: To all radio apps for iPod Touch Message-ID: <4E6A0421.4080609@techno-chat.net> Hello all. What radio apps do you recommend for the iPod Touch 4G? Apple Vis has to name but two Tunein Radio Pro and Ootunes, the latter sounding more feature rich and VoiceOver compatible. But I'd love to hear your thoughts of them two plus any other radio apps you use. I'm thinking to have a sort of Tapin Radio for my iPod smiles. Thanks. Chat soon. From lynne at mac-access.net Fri Sep 9 20:03:00 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2011 20:03:00 +0100 Subject: To all radio apps for iPod Touch In-Reply-To: <4E6A0421.4080609@techno-chat.net> References: <4E6A0421.4080609@techno-chat.net> Message-ID: <1DD3E23D-FD00-4B78-9E39-5DE9B2F5AC0C@mac-access.net> Hello Chris Please don't think I'm being difficult; but, if you're a member of our other group, Mac Access, this kind of topic is more appropriate for that forum. We do try to keep Apple related discussions in Mac Access, rather than here. Lynne On 9 Sep 2011, at 13:18, chris hallsworth wrote: Hello all. What radio apps do you recommend for the iPod Touch 4G? Apple Vis has to name but two Tunein Radio Pro and Ootunes, the latter sounding more feature rich and VoiceOver compatible. But I'd love to hear your thoughts of them two plus any other radio apps you use. I'm thinking to have a sort of Tapin Radio for my iPod smiles. Thanks. Chat soon. ======================================= The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html Or: you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: --------------------------------------- From chris.hallsworth at techno-chat.net Sat Sep 10 10:43:36 2011 From: chris.hallsworth at techno-chat.net (chris hallsworth) Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2011 10:43:36 +0100 Subject: To all radio apps for iPod Touch In-Reply-To: <1DD3E23D-FD00-4B78-9E39-5DE9B2F5AC0C@mac-access.net> References: <4E6A0421.4080609@techno-chat.net> <1DD3E23D-FD00-4B78-9E39-5DE9B2F5AC0C@mac-access.net> Message-ID: <4E6B3148.4010801@techno-chat.net> Very true. I just didn't have the address for Mac Access in my address book. Sorry about that. I will post on there once I have the address. On 09/09/2011 20:03, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: > Hello Chris > > Please don't think I'm being difficult; but, if you're a member of our other group, Mac Access, this kind of topic is more appropriate for that forum. We do try to keep Apple related discussions in Mac Access, rather than here. > > Lynne > > On 9 Sep 2011, at 13:18, chris hallsworth wrote: > > Hello all. > What radio apps do you recommend for the iPod Touch 4G? Apple Vis has to name but two Tunein Radio Pro and Ootunes, the latter sounding more feature rich and VoiceOver compatible. But I'd love to hear your thoughts of them two plus any other radio apps you use. I'm thinking to have a sort of Tapin Radio for my iPod smiles. > Thanks. > Chat soon. > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- > From venables134 at btinternet.com Sat Sep 10 14:25:05 2011 From: venables134 at btinternet.com (Daniel McGee) Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2011 14:25:05 +0100 Subject: Windows 8 and built in screenreader Message-ID: Hi all, Daniel hear. On another list Jaws-UK, I heard talk about in windows 8 microsoft building in a screenreader into there opparating system. Of course this is only a rumor and since I didn't want to ask about it on that list as it is not relevant I thought it would be fine to ask about it on this list since it is technolagy related. Of course bearing in mind it only what I heard so I don't know if it is true or faulce so I'd like to hear everyone's thoughts. Also as a side note to windows 8, I was just wondering is it in beta now that's to say can people test it if they so desire? I ask this because a few weeks ago I was going to buy windows 7 home premium me still being on Windows Vista and after going to PC World and talking to an assistance there asking about what's the difference between the upgrade disc or the full version of windows 7 he mentioned windows 8 being in Beta which resulted to me deciding to hang on until that comes out to the public. So in short what's happening on the windows 8 front? Hope to hear from you techie infusieasts soon! Thanks Daniel From chris.hallsworth at techno-chat.net Sat Sep 10 18:32:08 2011 From: chris.hallsworth at techno-chat.net (chris hallsworth) Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2011 18:32:08 +0100 Subject: Windows 8 and built in screenreader In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4E6B9F18.1030302@techno-chat.net> Hi Daniel. There has been some demonstrations, all being contraversial, on Windows 8. The demonstration confirmed that in one of the early, unofficial builds Narrator became pretty much like VoiceOver. You can navigate the operating system. It has more key commands thant it ever did since the introduction in Windows 2000. And so on. So yes Narrator while will not be a fully fledged screen reader it will be much improved and may be regarded as a screen reader for those who don't want to use NVDA or won't/can't a commercial product. Please note this is speculation only. My prediction is the Narrator in the beta will be a lot better than it was on the unofficial build. Talking of which, rumours have it the beta will be out either at the end of this year or the beginning of next, kind of like when Windows 7 came out in beta. Hope this helps. Chat soon. On 10/09/2011 14:25, Daniel McGee wrote: > Hi all, Daniel hear. On another list Jaws-UK, I heard talk about in windows 8 microsoft building in a screenreader into there opparating system. Of course this is only a rumor and since I didn't want to ask about it on that list as it is not relevant I thought it would be fine to ask about it on this list since it is technolagy related. Of course bearing in mind it only what I heard so I don't know if it is true or faulce so I'd like to hear everyone's thoughts. Also as a side note to windows 8, I was just wondering is it in beta now that's to say can people test it if they so desire? I ask this because a few weeks ago I was going to buy windows 7 home premium me still being on Windows Vista and after going to PC World and talking to an assistance there asking about what's the difference between the upgrade disc or the full version of windows 7 he mentioned windows 8 being in Beta which resulted to me deciding to hang on until that comes out to the public. So in short wha > t's happening on the windows 8 front? > Hope to hear from you techie infusieasts soon! > > Thanks > > Daniel > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- > From venables134 at btinternet.com Sat Sep 10 19:56:22 2011 From: venables134 at btinternet.com (Daniel McGee) Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2011 19:56:22 +0100 Subject: Windows 8 and built in screenreader In-Reply-To: <4E6B9F18.1030302@techno-chat.net> References: <4E6B9F18.1030302@techno-chat.net> Message-ID: Hi Chris, thanks for all your info it's good to know. I hope microsoft do continue to improve it even if it gets better in windows 8, I hope they just don't decide to sa ok hear what we got in windows 8 and just leave it as that. In other words if it is better in windows 8 I hope it continues to grow in future OS's like apple. Time will tell! Thanks again Daniel -------------------------------------------------- From: "chris hallsworth" Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2011 6:32 PM To: "Techno-Chat ... Technology Enthusiasm!" Subject: Re: Windows 8 and built in screenreader > Hi Daniel. > There has been some demonstrations, all being contraversial, on Windows 8. > The demonstration confirmed that in one of the early, unofficial builds > Narrator became pretty much like VoiceOver. You can navigate the operating > system. It has more key commands thant it ever did since the introduction > in Windows 2000. And so on. So yes Narrator while will not be a fully > fledged screen reader it will be much improved and may be regarded as a > screen reader for those who don't want to use NVDA or won't/can't a > commercial product. Please note this is speculation only. My prediction is > the Narrator in the beta will be a lot better than it was on the > unofficial build. Talking of which, rumours have it the beta will be out > either at the end of this year or the beginning of next, kind of like when > Windows 7 came out in beta. > Hope this helps. > Chat soon. > > On 10/09/2011 14:25, Daniel McGee wrote: >> Hi all, Daniel hear. On another list Jaws-UK, I heard talk about in >> windows 8 microsoft building in a screenreader into there opparating >> system. Of course this is only a rumor and since I didn't want to ask >> about it on that list as it is not relevant I thought it would be fine to >> ask about it on this list since it is technolagy related. Of course >> bearing in mind it only what I heard so I don't know if it is true or >> faulce so I'd like to hear everyone's thoughts. Also as a side note to >> windows 8, I was just wondering is it in beta now that's to say can >> people test it if they so desire? I ask this because a few weeks ago I >> was going to buy windows 7 home premium me still being on Windows Vista >> and after going to PC World and talking to an assistance there asking >> about what's the difference between the upgrade disc or the full version >> of windows 7 he mentioned windows 8 being in Beta which resulted to me >> deciding to hang on until that comes out to the public. So in short > wha >> t's happening on the windows 8 front? >> Hope to hear from you techie infusieasts soon! >> >> Thanks >> >> Daniel >> >> ======================================= >> >> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, >> virus and worm-free >> >> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated >> web pages located at >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat >> >> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group >> at either of the following websites: >> >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html >> >> Or: >> >> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: >> >> >> --------------------------------------- >> > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus > and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated > web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at > either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- From lynne at mac-access.net Sun Sep 11 08:56:58 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2011 08:56:58 +0100 Subject: OT: Important list info Message-ID: <9EC6B18A-AC2A-4AB6-9094-D11B6E557114@mac-access.net> Hello everybody Forgive this personal note. I know that there are some on our groups who will think this is bad content management but it is necessary to let the group know so that they are aware of who to contact if they require help with any of our services. I assure the group I'm not trying to use this forum as a media to "tell our own story", as one now former member recently described it. If your query/request is not urgent, and if it does not require intervention, please either contact our assistant list controller, Mary Stores; , or use the usual support request: and I will respond as soon as possible. If you want to contact me personally for any reason my usual address may be used. If your request requires intervention, that is to say if you require a modification to your membership or other service configuration change which you cannot initiate yourself, please contact the usual support address: , and accept my apologies for possible delays in responding. The assistant list controller of our groups does not have direct access to the administrative interface. Gordon, our technical guru and network administrator, is currently lying in a hospital bed where he is likely to be for several days. I won't go into the why's and wherefores on list. But I know there are some who have apparently taken my seeming lack of interest in their messages on and off list as personal insult. Well; that's their prerogative; but no insult was intended. Anyway, I'm sorry for the off topic babble. I am still monitoring the group when I can and there have been several messages posted recently to which I'd like to respond because they were actually quite interesting. However, please forgive the delays and, if when I do respond, my responses are no longer relevant, feel free to say so. Lynne From venables134 at btinternet.com Sun Sep 11 15:53:55 2011 From: venables134 at btinternet.com (Daniel McGee) Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2011 15:53:55 +0100 Subject: Just wondering are there any mailing lists out there for the Thunder Screenreader? Message-ID: <80C98AB15CA74E99B0A61D6C5833DD7F@DanielPC> Hi all, as the subject line says I am wondering. I know there are various lists for jaws, voiceover, NVDA etc, but I was just wondering are there any for the Thunder Screenreader that people know of? The closest I've found on the main site was the "join our mailing list" think it was a link. However this is for news on the screenreader e.g. updates. I ask because I simply don't know and am cureious of the usual places like freelists.org, yahoo groups, and google groups. preferably not google groups though. I look forward to hearing your answers. Thanks Daniel From lynne at mac-access.net Mon Sep 12 13:36:57 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2011 13:36:57 +0100 Subject: Topic of the day: broadband providers, best and worst In-Reply-To: <4E6DDD83.4060509@techno-chat.net> References: <4E6DDD83.4060509@techno-chat.net> Message-ID: <432D06BE-9FC0-46B6-8503-DF7E6D35250F@mac-access.net> Hello Chris This relates to technology so I've moved it from Just-Chat where it started life. On 12 Sep 2011, at 11:22, chris hallsworth wrote: The subject says it all. So, what is your best and worst broadband provider? As for me well I only go with the best lol. I am with Sky. I think it depends on what you want rom your provider. Sky have a lot of packages and also a lot of little catches. I can't compare it with ours because ours are SDSL rather than ADSL or cable. But we used to be with Virgin Media business and their service really is a bit of a joke. They're absolutely dreadful to deal with from a customer's perspective and I was happy to see the day when Gordon and Dad pulled all of the Virgin Media cabling off and out of our wall. They didn't even come to collect the cable modem so we binned it. BT apparently now offers fibre-optic broadband but again I can't speak from personal experience. The UK is way behind other places in Europe and the rest of the world though with regards Broadband Internet. So yes; it would be interesting to hear what others are using. Lynne From chris.hallsworth at techno-chat.net Mon Sep 12 16:16:18 2011 From: chris.hallsworth at techno-chat.net (chris hallsworth) Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2011 16:16:18 +0100 Subject: Microsoft demos super fast boot times in Windows 8 Message-ID: <4E6E2242.1040709@techno-chat.net> Microsoft has a surprise for users tired of waiting forever while their computers boot up. It will take less than 10 seconds for a Windows 8 PC to go from powered down to the start screen, according to a Microsoft video demonstration. The speedy boot is thanks to a new hybrid system that mixes processes used in cold boots and hibernation mode. Microsoft showed off the new functionality in yet another blog post on its Building Windows 8 blog. The less than 10 second boot time Microsoft displayed was on a laptop with a Core i7-2620M Sandy Bridge processor, 8GB RAM and a 160GB solid-state drive. Results using other hardware may vary. Microsoft tested 30 PCs comparing Windows 8 fast startup times to Windows 7 cold boots. The most dramatic drop in time was for a PC (specs were undisclosed) that went from a more than 70 second cold boot time in Windows 7 to about 20 seconds on a Windows 8 fast startup. Thanks to the influence of tablets and smartphones, users are more accustomed than ever to having instant-on access to their devices. This can make it feel as though you've stepped back into the Dark Ages while you wait a minute or two for your PC to boot. Nevertheless, more than half of all PC users (57 percent of desktop users and 45 percent of laptop users) opt to turn their devices off instead of letting them go into sleep or hibernation mode, from which the computer can resume much faster, according to Microsoft data. Reasons for preferring shutdown vary, Microsoft says, from wanting to save on power to preferring to start a session fresh with no leftover processes from earlier (I suspect that another group of people avoid sleep and hibernate because it never works quite properly on their PCs). But even though a slight majority prefer to shut down, many Windows PC users do use sleep and hibernate modes instead of cold boots. In Windows 8, Microsoft wanted to create a shutdown process that would appeal to both types of users, by achieving three basic goals: nearly zero power draw when the computer is shut off, a fresh session after boot, and a quick startup time. To reach these targets, Windows 8's default shutdown mode performs what it refers to as a "session 0" hibernation. Basically, the computer shuts down normally, except that it saves the Windows kernel session to a hibernation file prior to shutting down. In Windows 7, the kernel session gets shut down completely--the kernel is the OS's core component that acts as a link between applications and data processing at the hardware level. Storing the kernel session results in a small hibernation file that the system can read back into memory in much less time than it takes to start everything up from a traditional cold boot, according to Microsoft. The new faster startup time also takes advantage of multicore systems by using all of the cores in parallel to speed the work of reading the hibernation file. Microsoft says that this multicore process will help your system resume from regular hibernate mode more quickly as well. The Windows maker found that PCs with a Unified Extensible Firmware Interface (UEFI) instead of a traditional BIOS tend to achieve faster boot times under the new system, too. If you who need a traditional cold shutdown to install new hardware on your PC or if you want one because you like it the old way, Microsoft allows you to revert to the old shutdown method either permanently (through a setting in the user interface--probably in the Control Panel, though Microsoft didn't explain this fully) or as a one-time occurrence from the command prompt. Windows isn't the only PC operating system to support speedy boots. Google's browser-only Chromebooks have fast boot times, and Apple's MacBook Air line also claims instant-on functionality. If you can't get enough Windows 8 news, check out PCWorld on Tuesday, September 13 when Microsoft is expected to provide even more details about its forthcoming OS during the company's BUILD conference. Windows 8 Fast Boot: [source: pc world] From martin at x.it.okstate.edu Mon Sep 12 19:11:20 2011 From: martin at x.it.okstate.edu (Martin McCormick) Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2011 13:11:20 -0500 Subject: 9-11, The Towers and the Pentagon Message-ID: <201109121811.p8CIBKT3009134@x.it.okstate.edu> I don't know if I have seen that specific documentary, but I did see a "Nova" which is a PBS documentary about why the World Trade Center towers fell or more correctly, melted. As luck would have it, the plane that hit the Pentagon in Washington, D.C., hit the part of the building that had been upgraded some time earlier to what was thought to be a more modern way to build a more secure building. The windows were shatter resistant. The walls were reen forced with mesh and other materials that are not normally present. There were a number of hardening measures that make things either fail to shatter or fail to burn as easily. The general consensus is that this all worked. Yes, people did die and millions of Dollars of damage occurred, but if that plane had happened to hit one of the other wings of the Pentagon that is more conventionally built, more bloodshed would have resulted. The World Trade Center was built to withstand the impact of large aircraft, but the engineers did not take in to account the effect of flaming jet fuel on the steel support structure which softened and then melted, allowing each floor to rip loose from the supports and pancake on to the floor below it. The fire suppression system had feed pipes along the tower walls. Had the suppression system worked, it might have saved the building, but it failed immediately when the burning jet fuel and impacts severed those pipes. So, you had searing heat along with no flood of water and that doomed both buildings. Dane Trethowan writes: > This Weekend marks the 10th anniversary of the September 11 attacks. > > I'm watching a very interesting documentary right now from our cable TV > service called 9-11, The Towers And The Pentagon. From martin at x.it.okstate.edu Mon Sep 12 20:08:05 2011 From: martin at x.it.okstate.edu (Martin McCormick) Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2011 14:08:05 -0500 Subject: A Busy Day Last Week Message-ID: <201109121908.p8CJ854K009360@x.it.okstate.edu> I was on vacation last week and didn't even look much at Email. Last Monday was Labor Day in the United states which we celebrate by getting the day off. It's like parking your car in the driveway and driving on a parkway. Go figure. Anyway, I needed to get a haircut last Tuesday which is normally not a cause to post to this list, but the barber shop had recently moved to a different location in the building where it is and I heard the barbers talking about how their phone system wasn't completely up and running yet. They normally had a credit card machine, a cordless phone, an answering machine and a regular wired telephone all sharing the same line and now they didn't have enough jacks to go around. One of the barbers had bought what he thought was a 3-port splitter which didn't seem to work. I asked him how the ports were labeled. It turns out what he bought was not what he really needed. Here, most modern telephone jacks feed two actual lines to your phone. One pair of wires is the primary pair and is usually blue and white while the secondary pair is orange and white and is often-times not even connected to anything unless you have a second phone line in which case, that's it. The new splitter he had bought fed the primary pair to one jack, both pairs to the middle jack, and the second line to the third jack. We kind of left it at that but the wheels were slowly spinning in my head and I had a thought. After the haircut was over, I asked if I could look at their setup because there might be a way to get it all to work again. It occurred to me that the credit card machine just might have a spare RJ11 jack that fed the phone line which came in to the machine back out so someone could plug a phone in when the machine was not in use, just like old dial-up modems used to be. The barber said that was fine and showed me the card machine. It is a box about the size of a telephone with a round housing on top for the roll of paper tape, a key pad and slot for a credit card. I looked on the bottom where the phone line plugged in and there was not one but three unused jacks. Two of them may have been RJ45 Ethernet jacks as they are about the same size. I know that plugging the wired phone in to them accomplished nothing. The next jack was occupied by the actual phone line cord and the final jack was vacant. When I plugged the phone and answering machine there, we had dial tone. The problem was solved. I had the barbers try a credit card to make sure the machine still worked and then call the number to test the answering machine and that all worked. Too bad I didn't get a bit knocked off the price of the hair cut, but it was only about 5 or 10 minutes of trouble-shooting, so I feel like I was useful. When I got back home, Beverly said that my father had rented a jack hammer to break up some concrete that had been the base of a flag pole in his yard. The pole had been bent over in late July as a result of a high wind storm and we needed to make the old base go away. The jack hammer weighed about 60 pounds or 3 stones or around 25 KG so it was a job to lift. I have always wanted to try a jack hammer since I was about six years old and it was as fun as I thought it would be except for one secret which I will share. If you let the hammer point embed itself in the broken concrete and Earth, it gets stuck and is almost impossible to get un-stuck. We got that jack hammer stuck several times and that was the real work. You can shake it from side to side and eventually get it out, but it once got so stuck that I had to release the hammer point from the machine and pull the machine off the point. We then had to use a sledge hammer and a regular hammer to slowly chip enough concrete from around the jack hammer point to loosen it. We even poured water in the hold and I finally worked it out. The points are steel bars shaped exactly like a pencil. On one end, there is either a chisel point which looks like a screwdriver or a sharp point like a sharpened pencil. Either one destroys concrete beautifully and either one can get stuck to the point where you think the Earth was built around it and it will never come out. By the time it got stuck for the last time, my body felt as if I had been beaten up. The jack hammer vibrates tremendously and lifting it up to unstick it finally wears your arms and shoulder muscles out. We did get the remains of the flag pole out of the hole and enough of the concrete busted up that we can fill it in and we will dig a new hole to get the pole further away from the tree that did that first one in. As I dragged my aching body home last Tuesday, I felt like it had been a good and successful day. The barber's had a working phone system. My father's flag pole was ready for replacement. After I got all the dirt and concrete dust and grease from the jack hammer off of me and slept, I felt good again. Well, I had better get back to work. I was waiting for a piece of software to install on a slow system and it just finished. Martin From grtdane at internode.on.net Tue Sep 13 03:43:34 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2011 12:43:34 +1000 Subject: FScast 58 concerning JAWS 13 Message-ID: <1F49A103-60C2-4520-A491-B11AFB481CE3@internode.on.net> Hi! Sorry I can't give the list much detail as the link I had for this episode of the Freedom Scientific podcast doesn't appear to work. Anyway one of the main features of the Podcast concerns the upcoming JAWS 13, a public beta of which will be available shortly. So what's new in JAWS 13? Apparently it will contain an OCR feature to interpret those sometimes annoying images that pop up on web sites containing a verification code. Well sorry boys, we already have products that do just this and at a far cheaper price I'm sure! than the upgrade or new fee for JAWS 13 will be. anyway if I find a link to the Podcast then I'll let the list know or perhaps someone else on list knows the correct link. Again, good try Freedom Scientific but you've left your run far too late. From d.griffith at btinternet.com Tue Sep 13 06:59:35 2011 From: d.griffith at btinternet.com (David Griffith) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2011 06:59:35 +0100 Subject: FScast 58 concerning JAWS 13 In-Reply-To: <1F49A103-60C2-4520-A491-B11AFB481CE3@internode.on.net> References: <1F49A103-60C2-4520-A491-B11AFB481CE3@internode.on.net> Message-ID: The list bounced back my earlier effort at replying so I will try again. Are you talking about products for the Mac platform? If so I would be very interested to know what these are. The main solution I know about is the Web Visum plugin for Windows Firefox [ not sure about the spelling[ but the problem here is that as I understand it the latest versions of Firefox no longer support these plugins. You have to be careful not to upgrade if you want to retain access to this utility. In tho case getting this feature in Jaws would be useful providing it will still work in the demo version which yo can presumably download to when when you need it. I also do not use Firefox as my main browser on the Windows side but stick with IE for the time being. I seem to have problems with Firefox crashing no mater what platform I am on for some reason. David Griffith d.griffith at btinternet.com On 13 Sep 2011, at 03:43, Dane Trethowan wrote: > Hi! > > Sorry I can't give the list much detail as the link I had for this episode of the Freedom Scientific podcast doesn't appear to work. > > Anyway one of the main features of the Podcast concerns the upcoming JAWS 13, a public beta of which will be available shortly. > > So what's new in JAWS 13? Apparently it will contain an OCR feature to interpret those sometimes annoying images that pop up on web sites containing a verification code. > > Well sorry boys, we already have products that do just this and at a far cheaper price I'm sure! than the upgrade or new fee for JAWS 13 will be. > > anyway if I find a link to the Podcast then I'll let the list know or perhaps someone else on list knows the correct link. > > Again, good try Freedom Scientific but you've left your run far too late. > > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- From grtdane at internode.on.net Tue Sep 13 07:07:15 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2011 16:07:15 +1000 Subject: FScast 58 concerning JAWS 13 In-Reply-To: References: <1F49A103-60C2-4520-A491-B11AFB481CE3@internode.on.net> Message-ID: <4E6EF313.2020503@internode.on.net> Yep there is a web capture solution for the Mac though I can't remember the name of the software. As far as webvisum goes? Well I'm running the latest version of Firefox and - to date - I've had no trouble with the add-on. I'm not questioning Freedom Scientific's intentions, makes sense to have this sort of feature in a Screen Reading package but what I am questioning is the cost to people for this feature, its going to cost JAWS users a few hundred to upgrade just for this, its going to cost people a great deal of money if they want to use this feature who don't own JAWS so that's why I spoke of alternative such as webvisum. On 13/09/2011 3:59 PM, David Griffith wrote: > The list bounced back my earlier effort at replying so I will try again. > > Are you talking about products for the Mac platform? If so I would be very interested to know what these are. The main solution I know about is the Web Visum plugin for Windows Firefox [ not sure about the spelling[ but the problem here is that as I understand it the latest versions of Firefox no longer support these plugins. You have to be careful not to upgrade if you want to retain access to this utility. In tho case getting this feature in Jaws would be useful providing it will still work in the demo version which yo can presumably download to when when you need it. I also do not use Firefox as my main browser on the Windows side but stick with IE for the time being. I seem to have problems with Firefox crashing no mater what platform I am on for some reason. > > David Griffith > d.griffith at btinternet.com > > > > On 13 Sep 2011, at 03:43, Dane Trethowan wrote: > >> Hi! >> >> Sorry I can't give the list much detail as the link I had for this episode of the Freedom Scientific podcast doesn't appear to work. >> >> Anyway one of the main features of the Podcast concerns the upcoming JAWS 13, a public beta of which will be available shortly. >> >> So what's new in JAWS 13? Apparently it will contain an OCR feature to interpret those sometimes annoying images that pop up on web sites containing a verification code. >> >> Well sorry boys, we already have products that do just this and at a far cheaper price I'm sure! than the upgrade or new fee for JAWS 13 will be. >> >> anyway if I find a link to the Podcast then I'll let the list know or perhaps someone else on list knows the correct link. >> >> Again, good try Freedom Scientific but you've left your run far too late. >> >> >> >> ======================================= >> >> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free >> >> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat >> >> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: >> >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html >> >> Or: >> >> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: >> >> >> --------------------------------------- > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- -- Dane Trethowan Sending email from his EEEPC Netbook From lynne at mac-access.net Tue Sep 13 07:52:39 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2011 07:52:39 +0100 Subject: Website; Image Verification Technologies In-Reply-To: <4E6EF313.2020503@internode.on.net> References: <1F49A103-60C2-4520-A491-B11AFB481CE3@internode.on.net> <4E6EF313.2020503@internode.on.net> Message-ID: <18E7CA27-447C-4FE7-BF7C-64DF6F7D620E@mac-access.net> Dane Are you talking about Solona.net? I confess that although I can see It irritates me that you people without vision are precluded from using so many websites and functions these days because of the image verification technologies they use. There isn't always an audio solution parallels it or when there is the audio is so garbled as to make it unintelligible. This particularly applies to those people who have both a vision and hearing impairment of whom there are many. Again although it does not affect me personally I am not so selfish as to just say "hard luck", because it's a very widespread and frustrating problem; one with which I would be more than willing to help if I could; and that applies to anybody. Lynne On 13 Sep 2011, at 07:07, Dane Trethowan wrote: Yep there is a web capture solution for the Mac though I can't remember the name of the software. From d.griffith at btinternet.com Tue Sep 13 08:05:38 2011 From: d.griffith at btinternet.com (David Griffith) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2011 08:05:38 +0100 Subject: FScast 58 concerning JAWS 13 In-Reply-To: <4E6EF313.2020503@internode.on.net> References: <1F49A103-60C2-4520-A491-B11AFB481CE3@internode.on.net> <4E6EF313.2020503@internode.on.net> Message-ID: <9466D924-3F8E-4316-9963-C5D67FAE1414@btinternet.com> Interesting I saw on another list people complaining that when they upgraded to Firefox 6 I think that was the version, they were informed that the plugin would not work. Maybe the plugin has been updated? Thanks for info and if anybody knows the Mac Safari version please let me know. wer David Griffith d.griffith at btinternet.com On 13 Sep 2011, at 07:07, Dane Trethowan wrote: > Yep there is a web capture solution for the Mac though I can't remember the name of the software. > > As far as webvisum goes? Well I'm running the latest version of Firefox and - to date - I've had no trouble with the add-on. > > I'm not questioning Freedom Scientific's intentions, makes sense to have this sort of feature in a Screen Reading package but what I am questioning is the cost to people for this feature, its going to cost JAWS users a few hundred to upgrade just for this, its going to cost people a great deal of money if they want to use this feature who don't own JAWS so that's why I spoke of alternative such as webvisum. > > > > On 13/09/2011 3:59 PM, David Griffith wrote: >> The list bounced back my earlier effort at replying so I will try again. >> >> Are you talking about products for the Mac platform? If so I would be very interested to know what these are. The main solution I know about is the Web Visum plugin for Windows Firefox [ not sure about the spelling[ but the problem here is that as I understand it the latest versions of Firefox no longer support these plugins. You have to be careful not to upgrade if you want to retain access to this utility. In tho case getting this feature in Jaws would be useful providing it will still work in the demo version which yo can presumably download to when when you need it. I also do not use Firefox as my main browser on the Windows side but stick with IE for the time being. I seem to have problems with Firefox crashing no mater what platform I am on for some reason. >> >> David Griffith >> d.griffith at btinternet.com >> >> >> >> On 13 Sep 2011, at 03:43, Dane Trethowan wrote: >> >>> Hi! >>> >>> Sorry I can't give the list much detail as the link I had for this episode of the Freedom Scientific podcast doesn't appear to work. >>> >>> Anyway one of the main features of the Podcast concerns the upcoming JAWS 13, a public beta of which will be available shortly. >>> >>> So what's new in JAWS 13? Apparently it will contain an OCR feature to interpret those sometimes annoying images that pop up on web sites containing a verification code. >>> >>> Well sorry boys, we already have products that do just this and at a far cheaper price I'm sure! than the upgrade or new fee for JAWS 13 will be. >>> >>> anyway if I find a link to the Podcast then I'll let the list know or perhaps someone else on list knows the correct link. >>> >>> Again, good try Freedom Scientific but you've left your run far too late. >>> >>> >>> >>> ======================================= >>> >>> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free >>> >>> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at >>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat >>> >>> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: >>> >>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html >>> >>> Or: >>> >>> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: >>> >>> >>> --------------------------------------- >> >> ======================================= >> >> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free >> >> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat >> >> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: >> >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html >> >> Or: >> >> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: >> >> >> --------------------------------------- > > -- > Dane Trethowan > Sending email from his EEEPC Netbook > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- From grtdane at internode.on.net Tue Sep 13 08:30:58 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2011 17:30:58 +1000 Subject: Website; Image Verification Technologies In-Reply-To: <18E7CA27-447C-4FE7-BF7C-64DF6F7D620E@mac-access.net> References: <1F49A103-60C2-4520-A491-B11AFB481CE3@internode.on.net> <4E6EF313.2020503@internode.on.net> <18E7CA27-447C-4FE7-BF7C-64DF6F7D620E@mac-access.net> Message-ID: <66EE93DB-C66E-4A49-BE49-1FDF402FC7C4@internode.on.net> Yep thanks, that was the web site I couldn't remember. We've just been discussing these verification codes as it happens - friend and myself - and my friend brings up an interesting point. It is his understanding that these codes are designed not to be interpreted by OCR software so if that is indeed the case then I think JAWS 13 may have quite a few problems . I use Webvisum for those times when I need to find out what's in one of those images and it works 99% of the time, correct me if I'm wrong but I think Webvisum uses OCR technology to interpret the image. Some sites have better audio recordings of the verification codes than do others, some I've been on have the codes as downloadable MP3 files which can make a huge difference, play them with your favourite player and favourite sound settings for example which does help when trying to understand the letters and numbers. . On 13/09/2011, at 4:52 PM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: > Dane > Are you talking about Solona.net? I confess that although I can see It irritates me that you people without vision are precluded from using so many websites and functions these days because of the image verification technologies they use. There isn't always an audio solution parallels it or when there is the audio is so garbled as to make it unintelligible. This particularly applies to those people who have both a vision and hearing impairment of whom there are many. > > Again although it does not affect me personally I am not so selfish as to just say "hard luck", because it's a very widespread and frustrating problem; one with which I would be more than willing to help if I could; and that applies to anybody. > > Lynne > > On 13 Sep 2011, at 07:07, Dane Trethowan wrote: > > Yep there is a web capture solution for the Mac though I can't remember the name of the software. > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- From grtdane at internode.on.net Tue Sep 13 08:31:30 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2011 17:31:30 +1000 Subject: FScast 58 concerning JAWS 13 In-Reply-To: <9466D924-3F8E-4316-9963-C5D67FAE1414@btinternet.com> References: <1F49A103-60C2-4520-A491-B11AFB481CE3@internode.on.net> <4E6EF313.2020503@internode.on.net> <9466D924-3F8E-4316-9963-C5D67FAE1414@btinternet.com> Message-ID: <8D1567F3-C5F2-45CA-A7DE-157BABE6830E@internode.on.net> eYp, I've seen those messages too! On 13/09/2011, at 5:05 PM, David Griffith wrote: > Interesting I saw on another list people complaining that when they upgraded to Firefox 6 I think that was the version, they were informed that the plugin would not work. Maybe the plugin has been updated? > > Thanks for info and if anybody knows the Mac Safari version please let me know. > wer > David Griffith > d.griffith at btinternet.com > > > > On 13 Sep 2011, at 07:07, Dane Trethowan wrote: > >> Yep there is a web capture solution for the Mac though I can't remember the name of the software. >> >> As far as webvisum goes? Well I'm running the latest version of Firefox and - to date - I've had no trouble with the add-on. >> >> I'm not questioning Freedom Scientific's intentions, makes sense to have this sort of feature in a Screen Reading package but what I am questioning is the cost to people for this feature, its going to cost JAWS users a few hundred to upgrade just for this, its going to cost people a great deal of money if they want to use this feature who don't own JAWS so that's why I spoke of alternative such as webvisum. >> >> >> >> On 13/09/2011 3:59 PM, David Griffith wrote: >>> The list bounced back my earlier effort at replying so I will try again. >>> >>> Are you talking about products for the Mac platform? If so I would be very interested to know what these are. The main solution I know about is the Web Visum plugin for Windows Firefox [ not sure about the spelling[ but the problem here is that as I understand it the latest versions of Firefox no longer support these plugins. You have to be careful not to upgrade if you want to retain access to this utility. In tho case getting this feature in Jaws would be useful providing it will still work in the demo version which yo can presumably download to when when you need it. I also do not use Firefox as my main browser on the Windows side but stick with IE for the time being. I seem to have problems with Firefox crashing no mater what platform I am on for some reason. >>> >>> David Griffith >>> d.griffith at btinternet.com >>> >>> >>> >>> On 13 Sep 2011, at 03:43, Dane Trethowan wrote: >>> >>>> Hi! >>>> >>>> Sorry I can't give the list much detail as the link I had for this episode of the Freedom Scientific podcast doesn't appear to work. >>>> >>>> Anyway one of the main features of the Podcast concerns the upcoming JAWS 13, a public beta of which will be available shortly. >>>> >>>> So what's new in JAWS 13? Apparently it will contain an OCR feature to interpret those sometimes annoying images that pop up on web sites containing a verification code. >>>> >>>> Well sorry boys, we already have products that do just this and at a far cheaper price I'm sure! than the upgrade or new fee for JAWS 13 will be. >>>> >>>> anyway if I find a link to the Podcast then I'll let the list know or perhaps someone else on list knows the correct link. >>>> >>>> Again, good try Freedom Scientific but you've left your run far too late. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ======================================= >>>> >>>> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free >>>> >>>> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at >>>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat >>>> >>>> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: >>>> >>>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html >>>> >>>> Or: >>>> >>>> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: >>>> >>>> >>>> --------------------------------------- >>> >>> ======================================= >>> >>> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free >>> >>> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at >>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat >>> >>> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: >>> >>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html >>> >>> Or: >>> >>> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: >>> >>> >>> --------------------------------------- >> >> -- >> Dane Trethowan >> Sending email from his EEEPC Netbook >> >> >> ======================================= >> >> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free >> >> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat >> >> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: >> >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html >> >> Or: >> >> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: >> >> >> --------------------------------------- > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- From chris.hallsworth at techno-chat.net Tue Sep 13 08:37:03 2011 From: chris.hallsworth at techno-chat.net (chris hallsworth) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2011 08:37:03 +0100 Subject: FScast 58 concerning JAWS 13 In-Reply-To: <1F49A103-60C2-4520-A491-B11AFB481CE3@internode.on.net> References: <1F49A103-60C2-4520-A491-B11AFB481CE3@internode.on.net> Message-ID: <4E6F081F.5050603@techno-chat.net> I agree. While it will be interesting to see the new features, it doesn't change my feelings on either the price or the licensing of the product. But I am happy to use it as a back up screen reader particularly for times when I need a screenshot or two and want to know what it says. There is a screen reader that does this already but is not as well known as JAWS. It's called Cobra and is made by a German company called Baum. On 13/09/2011 03:43, Dane Trethowan wrote: > Hi! > > Sorry I can't give the list much detail as the link I had for this episode of the Freedom Scientific podcast doesn't appear to work. > > Anyway one of the main features of the Podcast concerns the upcoming JAWS 13, a public beta of which will be available shortly. > > So what's new in JAWS 13? Apparently it will contain an OCR feature to interpret those sometimes annoying images that pop up on web sites containing a verification code. > > Well sorry boys, we already have products that do just this and at a far cheaper price I'm sure! than the upgrade or new fee for JAWS 13 will be. > > anyway if I find a link to the Podcast then I'll let the list know or perhaps someone else on list knows the correct link. > > Again, good try Freedom Scientific but you've left your run far too late. > > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- > From lynne at mac-access.net Tue Sep 13 09:03:10 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2011 09:03:10 +0100 Subject: Website; Image Verification Technologies In-Reply-To: <66EE93DB-C66E-4A49-BE49-1FDF402FC7C4@internode.on.net> References: <1F49A103-60C2-4520-A491-B11AFB481CE3@internode.on.net> <4E6EF313.2020503@internode.on.net> <18E7CA27-447C-4FE7-BF7C-64DF6F7D620E@mac-access.net> <66EE93DB-C66E-4A49-BE49-1FDF402FC7C4@internode.on.net> Message-ID: <426AD7F6-89F1-4C15-870C-241FC7A30B5E@mac-access.net> Hello Dane On 13 Sep 2011, at 08:30, Dane Trethowan wrote: ? Yep thanks, that was the web site I couldn't remember. Right. Well I'm not sure it's still going actually. I went to try a while ago to buy a screen-protector for the iPad from there but I didn't because the SSL certificate they're using on their commercial page is one of the cheap Comodo ones which only works with Microsoft and compatible browsers. That shook my faith to be honest, because even we here at Mac Access have invested in proper certificates and we're not trying to sell to the public. We believe our clients deserve to be able to trust the encryption we use and if they can't, it would be a bit pointless doing it at all. But that's beside the point. I wasn't willing to give card details out on a site with broken and, therefore, non-functional encryption. ? We've just been discussing these verification codes as it happens - friend and myself - and my friend brings up an interesting point. ? It is his understanding that these codes are designed not to be interpreted by OCR software so if that is indeed the case then I think JAWS 13 may have quite a few problems . I am not going to correct anybody because you probably know better than I do. But what I will tell you is that Gillian's solution to this is similar, but slower. She prints out the web page and scans it. Then she gets the code. So if it isn't supposed to work with OCR, somebody somewhere hasn't done their job too well. :) ? I use Webvisum for those times when I need to find out what's in one of those images and it works 99% of the time, correct me if I'm wrong but I think Webvisum uses OCR technology to interpret the image. Never even heard of it. ? Some sites have better audio recordings of the verification codes than do others, some I've been on have the codes as downloadable MP3 files which can make a huge difference, play them with your favourite player and favourite sound settings for example which does help when trying to understand the letters and numbers. I'm sure that's true. I know that the Acapela Group website uses very good audio technology actually but Microsoft uses appalling technologies. Some companies don't understand the meaning of the words "visually impaired" or, "blind". Some people in the support industry don't understand how or even that a blind person can use a computer. When you try to explain that to them, they still fall back to the "click click point and click" descriptions. They simply cannot conceptualise using a keyboard without a mouse to make a computer system functional. But you'd think that the hallowed people at Microsoft would understand better than they do. Be that all as it may; if ever I can help anybody, absolutely anybody and not just with image verification, the offer is there. I can't promise to help; but I will try my best. Recent events here have reminded me how important it is to help each other out and not let silly squabbles get in the way. So there we are; the offer is there for anybody who I can help. Lynne From gordon at mac-access.net Tue Sep 13 09:06:00 2011 From: gordon at mac-access.net (Gordon Smith) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2011 09:06:00 +0100 Subject: Baum In-Reply-To: <4E6F081F.5050603@techno-chat.net> References: <1F49A103-60C2-4520-A491-B11AFB481CE3@internode.on.net> <4E6F081F.5050603@techno-chat.net> Message-ID: <53A87604-4567-4D59-8250-5DDEF865CA57@mac-access.net> Hello Chris Baum are the people who designed the Braille display protocol that all of the popular manufacturers use. So Baum is a very well-known company in the industry. I picked that up from a friend of ours who works for Humanware Europe. Lynne On 13 Sep 2011, at 08:37, chris hallsworth wrote: I agree. While it will be interesting to see the new features, it doesn't change my feelings on either the price or the licensing of the product. But I am happy to use it as a back up screen reader particularly for times when I need a screenshot or two and want to know what it says. There is a screen reader that does this already but is not as well known as JAWS. It's called Cobra and is made by a German company called Baum. From lynne at mac-access.net Tue Sep 13 09:06:35 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2011 09:06:35 +0100 Subject: Baum In-Reply-To: <53A87604-4567-4D59-8250-5DDEF865CA57@mac-access.net> References: <1F49A103-60C2-4520-A491-B11AFB481CE3@internode.on.net> <4E6F081F.5050603@techno-chat.net> <53A87604-4567-4D59-8250-5DDEF865CA57@mac-access.net> Message-ID: <6607B866-4CFC-460E-B1C7-566908FB7F31@mac-access.net> Oopse! Forgot to change accounts; sorry Lynne On 13 Sep 2011, at 09:06, Gordon Smith wrote: Hello Chris Baum are the people who designed the Braille display protocol that all of the popular manufacturers use. So Baum is a very well-known company in the industry. I picked that up from a friend of ours who works for Humanware Europe. Lynne On 13 Sep 2011, at 08:37, chris hallsworth wrote: I agree. While it will be interesting to see the new features, it doesn't change my feelings on either the price or the licensing of the product. But I am happy to use it as a back up screen reader particularly for times when I need a screenshot or two and want to know what it says. There is a screen reader that does this already but is not as well known as JAWS. It's called Cobra and is made by a German company called Baum. ======================================= The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html Or: you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: --------------------------------------- From chris.hallsworth at techno-chat.net Tue Sep 13 10:22:53 2011 From: chris.hallsworth at techno-chat.net (chris hallsworth) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2011 10:22:53 +0100 Subject: Baum In-Reply-To: <53A87604-4567-4D59-8250-5DDEF865CA57@mac-access.net> References: <1F49A103-60C2-4520-A491-B11AFB481CE3@internode.on.net> <4E6F081F.5050603@techno-chat.net> <53A87604-4567-4D59-8250-5DDEF865CA57@mac-access.net> Message-ID: <4E6F20ED.20800@techno-chat.net> That's true but their screen reader Cobra isn't well know due to the lack of publicity and awareness. I tried to promote it and it went ok but I think more promotion ought to be done. So here is the URL for Cobra. www.baum.de/cms/en/cobra/. Please include the slash otherwise the URL won't work. On 13/09/2011 09:06, Gordon Smith wrote: > Hello Chris > > Baum are the people who designed the Braille display protocol that all of the popular manufacturers use. So Baum is a very well-known company in the industry. I picked that up from a friend of ours who works for Humanware Europe. > > Lynne > > On 13 Sep 2011, at 08:37, chris hallsworth wrote: > > I agree. While it will be interesting to see the new features, it doesn't change my feelings on either the price or the licensing of the product. But I am happy to use it as a back up screen reader particularly for times when I need a screenshot or two and want to know what it says. There is a screen reader that does this already but is not as well known as JAWS. It's called Cobra and is made by a German company called Baum. > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- > From lynne at mac-access.net Tue Sep 13 10:25:30 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2011 10:25:30 +0100 Subject: Baum In-Reply-To: <4E6F20ED.20800@techno-chat.net> References: <1F49A103-60C2-4520-A491-B11AFB481CE3@internode.on.net> <4E6F081F.5050603@techno-chat.net> <53A87604-4567-4D59-8250-5DDEF865CA57@mac-access.net> <4E6F20ED.20800@techno-chat.net> Message-ID: <0F6067D2-A8D7-4403-A79B-53E306D59439@mac-access.net> Hello Chris We would be happy for you to write something up and we'll include it on the new Techno-Chat.net website if it would be at all helpful? Lynne On 13 Sep 2011, at 10:22, chris hallsworth wrote: That's true but their screen reader Cobra isn't well know due to the lack of publicity and awareness. I tried to promote it and it went ok but I think more promotion ought to be done. So here is the URL for Cobra. www.baum.de/cms/en/cobra/. Please include the slash otherwise the URL won't work. On 13/09/2011 09:06, Gordon Smith wrote: > Hello Chris > > Baum are the people who designed the Braille display protocol that all of the popular manufacturers use. So Baum is a very well-known company in the industry. I picked that up from a friend of ours who works for Humanware Europe. > > Lynne > > On 13 Sep 2011, at 08:37, chris hallsworth wrote: > > I agree. While it will be interesting to see the new features, it doesn't change my feelings on either the price or the licensing of the product. But I am happy to use it as a back up screen reader particularly for times when I need a screenshot or two and want to know what it says. There is a screen reader that does this already but is not as well known as JAWS. It's called Cobra and is made by a German company called Baum. > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- > ======================================= The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html Or: you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: --------------------------------------- From lynne at mac-access.net Tue Sep 13 10:39:48 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2011 10:39:48 +0100 Subject: Home Sweet Home! Message-ID: Hello everybody This is going to sound a little silly coming from somebody with eyes; but I'm going to ask anyway. I have currently 3 laptop here at home; 2 of them ours and one belonging to a blind friend of ours. All 3 of them use that cheap and nasty way of protecting the operating system; the hidden protected partition. One of the laptops is an Asus, (that's actually our NetBook), the other 2 are Acer machines. One of the Acer machines is also a NetBook, the other is a TravelMate TM2350 notebook. That latter machine belongs to me; I bought it just before I moved in here and when I knew nothing better. :) What I'd like to know here is this; Which key, on a portable keyboard which does not include the numeric keypad, is used to replace the "Home" key? I know that it's a case of using the FN key in combination with another key; I'd thought it was the left arrow key or the up arrow key, but neither seems to work. That's how it is on Apple keyboards I believe and I'd hoped it might be here also. We are hoping against hope that we can somehow force the RollBack menu to come up, although Gordon seems to think that the boot record must be damaged because we definitely did put RollBack on at least 2 of those machines but in both cases we're only getting the standard Windows boot menu which is no help at all because it just goes round and round in circles. Anybody got any ideas here? Gordon's not with us at the moment, but that's another story. But the point is he can't help and I'd like to get at least our own little NetBook fixed if possible. Lynne From chris.hallsworth at techno-chat.net Tue Sep 13 11:33:43 2011 From: chris.hallsworth at techno-chat.net (chris hallsworth) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2011 11:33:43 +0100 Subject: Baum In-Reply-To: <0F6067D2-A8D7-4403-A79B-53E306D59439@mac-access.net> References: <1F49A103-60C2-4520-A491-B11AFB481CE3@internode.on.net> <4E6F081F.5050603@techno-chat.net> <53A87604-4567-4D59-8250-5DDEF865CA57@mac-access.net> <4E6F20ED.20800@techno-chat.net> <0F6067D2-A8D7-4403-A79B-53E306D59439@mac-access.net> Message-ID: <4E6F3187.8060609@techno-chat.net> I have a podcast on Cobra. Sorry for not uploading anything of late. My friend is helping me out with trying to improve on the podcasts. He was even thinking of doing his own version as he has a better mike than me. His name is Gary Price. So that is why I haven't uploaded anything. He is still in the process of trying to make both the speech and his voice equally lloud, and I think he's done it. So please be patient. Thanks. On 13/09/2011 10:25, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: > Hello Chris > > We would be happy for you to write something up and we'll include it on the new Techno-Chat.net website if it would be at all helpful? > > Lynne > > On 13 Sep 2011, at 10:22, chris hallsworth wrote: > > That's true but their screen reader Cobra isn't well know due to the lack of publicity and awareness. I tried to promote it and it went ok but I think more promotion ought to be done. So here is the URL for Cobra. www.baum.de/cms/en/cobra/. Please include the slash otherwise the URL won't work. > > On 13/09/2011 09:06, Gordon Smith wrote: >> Hello Chris >> >> Baum are the people who designed the Braille display protocol that all of the popular manufacturers use. So Baum is a very well-known company in the industry. I picked that up from a friend of ours who works for Humanware Europe. >> >> Lynne >> >> On 13 Sep 2011, at 08:37, chris hallsworth wrote: >> >> I agree. While it will be interesting to see the new features, it doesn't change my feelings on either the price or the licensing of the product. But I am happy to use it as a back up screen reader particularly for times when I need a screenshot or two and want to know what it says. There is a screen reader that does this already but is not as well known as JAWS. It's called Cobra and is made by a German company called Baum. >> >> >> ======================================= >> >> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free >> >> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat >> >> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: >> >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html >> >> Or: >> >> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: >> >> >> --------------------------------------- >> > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- > From mstores at indiana.edu Tue Sep 13 14:54:30 2011 From: mstores at indiana.edu (Mary Stores) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2011 09:54:30 -0400 Subject: FScast 58 concerning JAWS 13 In-Reply-To: <1F49A103-60C2-4520-A491-B11AFB481CE3@internode.on.net> References: <1F49A103-60C2-4520-A491-B11AFB481CE3@internode.on.net> Message-ID: <20110913095430.tqmrinf8ws4ck0sg@webmail.iu.edu> Hi Dane, The link for the podcast is http://www.freedomscientific.com/FSCast/episodes/fscast058-september2011.asp . Also, since Firefox 4, Webvism no longer works. I know with one of the other web verification aps you have to have Twitter so they can tweet the numbers and letters to you. Are there any other options? Mary Quoting Dane Trethowan : > Hi! > > Sorry I can't give the list much detail as the link I had for this > episode of the Freedom Scientific podcast doesn't appear to work. > > Anyway one of the main features of the Podcast concerns the upcoming > JAWS 13, a public beta of which will be available shortly. > > So what's new in JAWS 13? Apparently it will contain an OCR feature > to interpret those sometimes annoying images that pop up on web sites > containing a verification code. > > Well sorry boys, we already have products that do just this and at a > far cheaper price I'm sure! than the upgrade or new fee for JAWS 13 > will be. > > anyway if I find a link to the Podcast then I'll let the list know or > perhaps someone else on list knows the correct link. > > Again, good try Freedom Scientific but you've left your run far too late. > From mstores at indiana.edu Tue Sep 13 14:57:26 2011 From: mstores at indiana.edu (Mary Stores) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2011 09:57:26 -0400 Subject: FScast 58 concerning JAWS 13 In-Reply-To: References: <1F49A103-60C2-4520-A491-B11AFB481CE3@internode.on.net> Message-ID: <20110913095726.8lsy3r9320w4w8so@webmail.iu.edu> I should have read your message before replying, since I said about the same thing. I am glad they came out with it personally. Mary Quoting David Griffith : > The list bounced back my earlier effort at replying so I will try again. > > Are you talking about products for the Mac platform? If so I would be > very interested to know what these are. The main solution I know > about is the Web Visum plugin for Windows Firefox [ not sure > about the spelling[ but the problem here is that as I understand it > the latest versions of Firefox no longer support these plugins. You > have to be careful not to upgrade if you want to retain access to > this utility. In tho case getting this feature in Jaws would be > useful providing it will still work in the demo version which yo can > presumably download to when when you need it. I also do not use > Firefox as my main browser on the Windows side but stick with IE for > the time being. I seem to have problems with Firefox crashing no > mater what platform I am on for some reason. > > David Griffith > d.griffith at btinternet.com From mstores at indiana.edu Tue Sep 13 15:00:17 2011 From: mstores at indiana.edu (Mary Stores) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2011 10:00:17 -0400 Subject: FScast 58 concerning JAWS 13 In-Reply-To: <4E6EF313.2020503@internode.on.net> References: <1F49A103-60C2-4520-A491-B11AFB481CE3@internode.on.net> <4E6EF313.2020503@internode.on.net> Message-ID: <20110913100017.jlx5hqim0ww08gso@webmail.iu.edu> Dane, People aren't upgrading just for that reason, though. Hopefully the FS people will have everything integrated into the Settings Center now so you don't have to go to three different places to change your settings. Also, you get three upgrades for free with an SMA, so not everyone is paying to upgrade. Also, most people who use JAWS aren't using the Mac, so it's no fair to criticize the FS folks for being too late. Sure, if JAWS was a Mac thing then maybe... Mary Quoting Dane Trethowan : > Yep there is a web capture solution for the Mac though I can't > remember the name of the software. > > As far as webvisum goes? Well I'm running the latest version of > Firefox and - to date - I've had no trouble with the add-on. > > I'm not questioning Freedom Scientific's intentions, makes sense to > have this sort of feature in a Screen Reading package but what I am > questioning is the cost to people for this feature, its going to cost > JAWS users a few hundred to upgrade just for this, its going to cost > people a great deal of money if they want to use this feature who > don't own JAWS so that's why I spoke of alternative such as webvisum. > > From mstores at indiana.edu Tue Sep 13 15:05:09 2011 From: mstores at indiana.edu (Mary Stores) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2011 10:05:09 -0400 Subject: Baum In-Reply-To: <0F6067D2-A8D7-4403-A79B-53E306D59439@mac-access.net> References: <1F49A103-60C2-4520-A491-B11AFB481CE3@internode.on.net> <4E6F081F.5050603@techno-chat.net> <53A87604-4567-4D59-8250-5DDEF865CA57@mac-access.net> <4E6F20ED.20800@techno-chat.net> <0F6067D2-A8D7-4403-A79B-53E306D59439@mac-access.net> Message-ID: <20110913100509.ldkjv3wkw0occssk@webmail.iu.edu> Yes, I have personally never heard of this company before in my life. Maybe they advertize well in Europe. I do try to keep up with technology news, so I would appreciate a write-up as well. Mary Quoting "Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith" : > Hello Chris > > We would be happy for you to write something up and we'll include it > on the new Techno-Chat.net website if it would be at all helpful? > > Lynne > From grtdane at internode.on.net Tue Sep 13 15:05:40 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2011 00:05:40 +1000 Subject: FScast 58 concerning JAWS 13 In-Reply-To: <20110913100017.jlx5hqim0ww08gso@webmail.iu.edu> References: <1F49A103-60C2-4520-A491-B11AFB481CE3@internode.on.net> <4E6EF313.2020503@internode.on.net> <20110913100017.jlx5hqim0ww08gso@webmail.iu.edu> Message-ID: <4E6F6334.6000008@internode.on.net> Ah come again? Who mentioned theMac. On 14/09/2011 12:00 AM, Mary Stores wrote: > Dane, > > People aren't upgrading just for that reason, though. > > Hopefully the FS people will have everything integrated into the > Settings Center now so you don't have to go to three different places > to change your settings. Also, you get three upgrades for free with an > SMA, so not everyone is paying to upgrade. > > Also, most people who use JAWS aren't using the Mac, so it's no fair > to criticize the FS folks for being too late. Sure, if JAWS was a Mac > thing then maybe... > > Mary > > Quoting Dane Trethowan : > >> Yep there is a web capture solution for the Mac though I can't >> remember the name of the software. >> >> As far as webvisum goes? Well I'm running the latest version of >> Firefox and - to date - I've had no trouble with the add-on. >> >> I'm not questioning Freedom Scientific's intentions, makes sense to >> have this sort of feature in a Screen Reading package but what I am >> questioning is the cost to people for this feature, its going to cost >> JAWS users a few hundred to upgrade just for this, its going to cost >> people a great deal of money if they want to use this feature who >> don't own JAWS so that's why I spoke of alternative such as webvisum. >> >> > > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, > virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's > dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat > group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- -- Dane Trethowan Sending email from his EEEPC Netbook From grtdane at internode.on.net Wed Sep 14 03:14:53 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2011 12:14:53 +1000 Subject: Logitech Solar Powered Wireless Keyboard Message-ID: The product looks most interesting, only thing which is preventing me from buying is the question of whether this device will interfere with 2.4GHZ wireless operations of my Time Capsule? I'm probably worrying unnecessarily. From grtdane at internode.on.net Wed Sep 14 13:50:28 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane trethowan) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2011 22:50:28 +1000 Subject: HP *500+ Printer Message-ID: <4E70A314.2040504@internode.on.net> Hi! Looking forward to tomorrow as Thursday's the day I pick up my new HP 8500+ multi function network printing device. As I've mentioned before on list, this device is "Airprint" compatible which means I will have the capabilities to print directly from my Ipad should I need to, there are plenty of apps I own which could use this facility and the Woolworths shopping app is one. I'll be detailing my experiences with the printer as I go along setting it up on Twitter so if you want to follow what I'm doing then look for "grtdane". Naturally, I'll be placing 1 or perhaps more articles on the printer in time on my blog. From martin at x.it.okstate.edu Wed Sep 14 14:01:12 2011 From: martin at x.it.okstate.edu (Martin McCormick) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2011 08:01:12 -0500 Subject: Logitech Solar Powered Wireless Keyboard Message-ID: <201109141301.p8ED1Cdp020075@x.it.okstate.edu> Dane Trethowan writes: > The product looks most interesting, only thing which is preventing me > from buying is the question of whether this device will interfere with > 2.4GHZ wireless operations of my Time Capsule? I'm probably worrying > unnecessarily. More likely, the Time Capsule could interfeer with the other wireless devices, but even more likely, you won't notice anything as each device uses its own frequency-hopping schedule and even if they both hit the same channel at once, the hit won't last long and each device will hop on to a new channel and pick right up where it left off. Martin From grtdane at internode.on.net Wed Sep 14 14:08:54 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane trethowan) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2011 23:08:54 +1000 Subject: Logitech Solar Powered Wireless Keyboard In-Reply-To: <201109141301.p8ED1Cdp020075@x.it.okstate.edu> References: <201109141301.p8ED1Cdp020075@x.it.okstate.edu> Message-ID: <4E70A766.4060307@internode.on.net> Excellent! off to order one then, will let you all know what its like when I receive it. On 14/09/2011 11:01 PM, Martin McCormick wrote: > Dane Trethowan writes: >> The product looks most interesting, only thing which is preventing me >> from buying is the question of whether this device will interfere with >> 2.4GHZ wireless operations of my Time Capsule? I'm probably worrying >> unnecessarily. > More likely, the Time Capsule could interfeer with the > other wireless devices, but even more likely, you won't notice > anything as each device uses its own frequency-hopping schedule > and even if they both hit the same channel at once, the hit > won't last long and each device will hop on to a new channel and > pick right up where it left off. > > Martin > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- From lynne at mac-access.net Wed Sep 14 17:25:41 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2011 17:25:41 +0100 Subject: Logitech Solar Powered Wireless Keyboard In-Reply-To: <201109141301.p8ED1Cdp020075@x.it.okstate.edu> References: <201109141301.p8ED1Cdp020075@x.it.okstate.edu> Message-ID: <3A9C29EA-DC89-459D-AB27-D655E1EC17F6@mac-access.net> Hello Martin it's also worth pointing out that you can configure the band/channel that the TC uses. Lynne On 14 Sep 2011, at 14:01, Martin McCormick wrote: More likely, the Time Capsule could interfeer with the other wireless devices, but even more likely, you won't notice anything as each device uses its own frequency-hopping schedule and even if they both hit the same channel at once, the hit won't last long and each device will hop on to a new channel and pick right up where it left off. From martin at x.it.okstate.edu Wed Sep 14 20:28:54 2011 From: martin at x.it.okstate.edu (Martin McCormick) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2011 14:28:54 -0500 Subject: Logitech Solar Powered Wireless Keyboard Message-ID: <201109141928.p8EJSsLl022897@x.it.okstate.edu> "Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith" writes: > it's also worth pointing out that you can configure the band/channel that > the TC uses. That helps even more so if you can keep the wireless keyboard from using the channels that the TC uses. I've got a pair of bluetooth headphones, however, that do not have any way to adjust the communications parameters. It's hard to tell for sure, but I think that other 2.4 GHZ devices in our house and maybe neighboring houses reduce the range a little. I can stand perfectly still at some point near the end of the range and the headphones will cut in and out. I have a device that converts 2.4 GHZ signals down to a range I can receive on a tunable UHF radio and it is interesting to listen for a bit in that frequency range. I could hear the bluetooth transmitter and receiver in the headphones chattering back and forth plus neighboring WiFi traffic. It all sounds like pops and blips of varying magnitude. I think I could also hear somebody's microwave oven as I could hear a faint but raucous buzz mixed in with all those spread-spectrum transmitters hopping around. I was just standing there in the room, holding the converter over my head so all that chatter I was hearing was systems that were probably no more than a house or two away. That band is getting really crowded. If I remember correctly, there are 16 channels in the United States for 2.4 GHZ devices and all of them are shared by WiFi, bluetooth and even analog audio and video. Here, they are called ISM which stands for Industrial Scientific and Medical frequencies and they are totally unlicensed so it's the wild West for sure. Martin From d.griffith at btinternet.com Thu Sep 15 14:01:48 2011 From: d.griffith at btinternet.com (David Griffith) Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2011 14:01:48 +0100 Subject: Genuine Windowsunder Fusion? Message-ID: <27C7E9AB-47F2-4511-8358-5E58293EB17B@btinternet.com> I purchased from Amazon yesterday Windows XP Professional CD I did this after they sent an email advertising this product. but after installing this under Fusion I am not able to install MSE and I have been taken to a Microsoft web site telling me that my copy of Windows is not genuine. This is obviously very annoying and I am not at all happy with Amazon. The Microsoft web site is telling me that there is nothing I can do about this as XP is no longer for sale. I do have the old product key from my now defunct machine. Is there a way that I can use this key to activate this install without having to start all over again? Regards David Griffith . David Griffith d.griffith at btinternet.com From grtdane at internode.on.net Fri Sep 16 10:11:50 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane trethowan) Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2011 19:11:50 +1000 Subject: HP8500+ multi function printer up and running Message-ID: <4E7312D6.3060908@internode.on.net> Hi Everyone! I'm pleased to report that I have my new HP Officejet Pro 8500+ up and running and I can print from every computer connected to my network and send faxes thus though as yet i've not tried or attempted to configure Airprint for the Ipad, that's something I'll be looking at soon though I don't think this will be a huge challenge. I certainly think that these printers are worth the look, the construction of these things is absolutely superb, nice tough heavy plastic though be warned, they take up a large footprint on a desk. The layout is simple, printer on the bottom with scanner and document feeder on the top and a touch screen with the control panel on the right front , obviously a person with no vision isn't going to get too much joy out of the touch screen but - once the device is set up - the touch screen can pretty much be forgotten about as much of the control of the HP8500+ can be done from the HTML web interface. First thing which needs to be done before the user can even get access to the full device web Interface is to install the ink tanks, 6 in all and the "black" tank is the bigger of the 6. Then an "Installation wizard" appears on the screen so you'll need sighted assistance to complete this. The printer will "calibrate" itself during which time it is advised that you install the software, I'm not sure whether this is manditory given that the device is a network device but I installed the software onto the main desktop computer anyway and had done with it. After calibration is complete the device will check for updates so be sure that your device is connected to your network via an ethernet cable, I'm assuming you can update your device through the web Interface at a later time. The HP8500+ has Wi-Fi capabilities though I haven't enabled these yet. We printed a couple of "test pages" with my sighted help remarking on how good the colour depth and quality of print was. I made prints from my Windows Desktop, Asus EEEPC, HP Notebook, Imac and Macbook computers all without fuss. Note to Mac users, to get the Mac to see this printer select the "add Printer" option from the Pritners and Scaners option under system preferences, your Mac will find the HP *500+ and ask if you wish to add it, if you select "add" your Mac will download the necessary software for your device, neat! So that's about it on the subject of the HP 8500+, so much to discover including the emailing of faxes etc. Cheers From lynne at mac-access.net Fri Sep 16 21:38:10 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2011 21:38:10 +0100 Subject: New Techno-Chat Email Expansions Message-ID: <6897C9D8-F2D3-4CDB-9A77-82C06ECB8DD1@mac-access.net> Hello everybody As you might know we are trying to get started on the development of the Techno-Chat network to run in parallel with Mac-Access. We are planning to start a couple of new mailing lists and wondered whether any members would be interested. In the second one we're looking for somebody to work with us to establish and administrate the group. The first list we have planned is "Windows-Access", or something similar. It will run alongside Techno-Chat, and be a part of the Techno-Chat network. We'll probably shorten the actual name from Windows-Access to win-access or something but again we'll listen to suggestions. The second group is a little more difficult because as I said, we are looking for somebody to help us with the technical background. We plan to call the group "Linux-Access", and the base line will be everything LINUX (and variants). If anybody is interested in either or both groups, could they please contact the support address, . We're also planning to give this network its own support address shortly as well, which we feel makes sense. Oh, and I almost forgot; email addresses are available under this domain for anybody who might like one. We recently had one applicant for an address and it turned out he wanted to use it as a forwarding gateway to his current addresses. Unfortunately that is one thing we don't allow because it isn't in our specifications. Any such address must be used independently. Lynne From lynne at mac-access.net Fri Sep 16 23:31:04 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2011 23:31:04 +0100 Subject: Genuine Windowsunder Fusion? In-Reply-To: <27C7E9AB-47F2-4511-8358-5E58293EB17B@btinternet.com> References: <27C7E9AB-47F2-4511-8358-5E58293EB17B@btinternet.com> Message-ID: Hello David Yes, I think we have the key change tool somewhere. But may I ask, did you just follow a link to Amazon? Are you sure the email was genuine? Lynne On 15 Sep 2011, at 14:01, David Griffith wrote: I purchased from Amazon yesterday Windows XP Professional CD I did this after they sent an email advertising this product. but after installing this under Fusion I am not able to install MSE and I have been taken to a Microsoft web site telling me that my copy of Windows is not genuine. This is obviously very annoying and I am not at all happy with Amazon. The Microsoft web site is telling me that there is nothing I can do about this as XP is no longer for sale. I do have the old product key from my now defunct machine. Is there a way that I can use this key to activate this install without having to start all over again? Regards David Griffith . David Griffith d.griffith at btinternet.com ======================================= The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html Or: you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: --------------------------------------- From grtdane at internode.on.net Sat Sep 17 09:09:41 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2011 18:09:41 +1000 Subject: HP Officejet Pro 8500+ Message-ID: <4E7455C5.4070306@internode.on.net> Hi! Been playing with the device a little more and discovered that a basic version of the Read Iris Pro OCR software is included with the HP 8500 software you get quite a big discount with the upgrade to Read Iris Pro offer so I've taken advantage of that. On my simple tests of OCR documents here the basic version of Read Iris seemed to perform quite well which wasn't surprising as I've used the Read Iris software before though not for quite some time. I would imagine that a version for Mac is also installed if you take the route of installing the HP 8500 Mac software and I would therefor assume that a version of Read Iris Pro upgrade is also available for the mac though ow accessible that is? Well that's another question to be answered perhaps on another day . -- Dane Trethowan From Melton Victoria Australia skype callto:grtdane12 MSN: grtdane at dane-trethowan.net From moore.c at blueyonder.co.uk Sat Sep 17 10:53:52 2011 From: moore.c at blueyonder.co.uk (Chris Moore) Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2011 10:53:52 +0100 Subject: HP Officejet Pro 8500+ In-Reply-To: <4E7455C5.4070306@internode.on.net> References: <4E7455C5.4070306@internode.on.net> Message-ID: <1F75A9B5-78F9-4FB3-8BA4-1B24DE76B898@blueyonder.co.uk> Sadly it is not very accessible on the Mac On 17 Sep 2011, at 09:09, Dane Trethowan wrote: > Hi! > > Been playing with the device a little more and discovered that a basic version of the Read Iris Pro OCR software is included with the HP 8500 software you get quite a big discount with the upgrade to Read Iris Pro offer so I've taken advantage of that. > > On my simple tests of OCR documents here the basic version of Read Iris seemed to perform quite well which wasn't surprising as I've used the Read Iris software before though not for quite some time. > > I would imagine that a version for Mac is also installed if you take the route of installing the HP 8500 Mac software and I would therefor assume that a version of Read Iris Pro upgrade is also available for the mac though ow accessible that is? Well that's another question to be answered perhaps on another day . > > > -- > Dane Trethowan > From Melton Victoria Australia > skype callto:grtdane12 > MSN: grtdane at dane-trethowan.net > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- From lynne at mac-access.net Sat Sep 17 18:34:13 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2011 18:34:13 +0100 Subject: Windows List Message-ID: hello everybody Gordon is working on this Windows list while he is home. But is anybody apart from Daniel interested? Not much point if it won't be used by more than one person. Lynne From chris.hallsworth at techno-chat.net Sat Sep 17 18:40:23 2011 From: chris.hallsworth at techno-chat.net (chris hallsworth) Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2011 18:40:23 +0100 Subject: Windows List In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4E74DB87.6000903@techno-chat.net> Me I am interested. On 17/09/2011 18:34, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: > hello everybody > > Gordon is working on this Windows list while he is home. But is anybody apart from Daniel interested? Not much point if it won't be used by more than one person. > > Lynne > > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- > From lynne at mac-access.net Sat Sep 17 20:48:59 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2011 20:48:59 +0100 Subject: Windows List In-Reply-To: <4E74DB87.6000903@techno-chat.net> References: <4E74DB87.6000903@techno-chat.net> Message-ID: <4CC3DF3B-DFE9-4F30-8FAE-6C58E36D9531@mac-access.net> Thank you Chris On 17 Sep 2011, at 18:40, chris hallsworth wrote: Me I am interested. From moopiecurran at gmail.com Sat Sep 17 21:16:50 2011 From: moopiecurran at gmail.com (Courtney Curran) Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2011 16:16:50 -0400 Subject: Windows List In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi, I'm very interested in such a list. Thanks, Courtney On Sep 17, 2011, at 1:34 PM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: > hello everybody > > Gordon is working on this Windows list while he is home. But is anybody apart from Daniel interested? Not much point if it won't be used by more than one person. > > Lynne > > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- From lynne at mac-access.net Sat Sep 17 21:32:57 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2011 21:32:57 +0100 Subject: Windows List In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5F34E800-6C37-4C72-8998-21A39F054094@mac-access.net> Hello Courtney Thank you; we are almost ready to go. I'll let the list know when. Lynne On 17 Sep 2011, at 21:16, Courtney Curran wrote: Hi, I'm very interested in such a list. Thanks, Courtney On Sep 17, 2011, at 1:34 PM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: > hello everybody > > Gordon is working on this Windows list while he is home. But is anybody apart from Daniel interested? Not much point if it won't be used by more than one person. > > Lynne > > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- ======================================= The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html Or: you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: --------------------------------------- From support at mac-access.net Sun Sep 18 03:55:25 2011 From: support at mac-access.net (Gordon & Lynne) Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2011 03:55:25 +0100 Subject: Windows List is ready for use! Message-ID: <49224D42-49C2-42D4-8DA2-84E56BDD87F0@mac-access.net> Hello everybody Gordon has finished his work on schedule. We cam now announce the availability of our second Techno Chat Dot Net network E-Mail forum. Windows-Access. Windows-Access is similar to our Mac Access group, but obviously the focus of this group is Microsoft Windows; with an emphasis on, although not restricted to, accessibility. If you're one of those people who uses virtualisation technologies such as Parallels Desktop, CrossOver and VMWare Fusion on the Mac, VMWare Server or VMWare Workstation on the PC, we now have a place where you can discuss the configuration of your Windows operating systems, assuming they are the guests or hosts. This has long been a difficult topic on Mac Access; so we are pleased to be able to provide this facility. If you wish to join this group, here are the details: To Join the Windows-Access group, send a message to: and follow the authentication responses you will receive in mailback messages. Once you have subscribed, you will receive the welcome message which contains a few do's and donts. Please read the document so you are aware of what's what. Once you are a member, please spread the word. To post to this group, send your messages to: . We would appreciate your telling others about the group if you think they might be interested. I should point out from the start that, although we promote lively discussion, flaming and ridiculing others will not be tolerated. We are aware of how some people get worked up by this kind of thing, but we ask you to please behave maturely; which is the behaviour we are accustomed to seeing on our other groups. Any questions, please contact the support address, . Lynne From support at mac-access.net Sun Sep 18 04:13:25 2011 From: support at mac-access.net (Gordon & Lynne) Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2011 04:13:25 +0100 Subject: New Member Welcome Message-ID: Hello everybody It is traditional when new members join the Techno-Chat email forum that we try to welcome the new member(s) personally. In keeping with that tradition, we are delighted to welcome: Dave McLean to our number. Anything related to technology is open for discussion in this group. Members frequently post links to interesting articles in this group. Whilst the primary function of Techno-chat is discussion, we recognise that these articles are often of value. That is why we encourage members to post links, rather than the full articles themselves, to the group. This way, members have the option of whether to follow up the articles, or to discard them. We hope that you will find Techno-Chat a pleasant, friendly and worthwhile place to be. if you have any list-related queries, please don't hesitate to contact either Gordon and myself, support at mac-access.net or our very able and capable assistant list controller Mary Stores, mstores at indiana.edu and we'll be pleased to help you. From gordon at mac-access.net Sun Sep 18 08:48:22 2011 From: gordon at mac-access.net (Gordon Smith) Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2011 08:48:22 +0100 Subject: Zoom H1 Message-ID: <0F894455-43FA-47FD-993F-BB074835F417@mac-access.net> Hi all This is going to sound incredibly dumb. But I need a bit of help, from the blind person's perspective with regards using the H1 digital recorder. My only excuse is that I am physically and mentally battered just at the moment, because of all this darn medical stuff, drugs and physical ailments. Lynne can give me a helping hand from the perspective of somebody with vision. But if anybody could possibly give me a description of the controls I'd be grateful. I need to make an on-location recording in hospital tomorrow, and although I can edit the files when I get home, it would undoubtedly help if I have some manipulation capabilities with the machine itself. So if anybody could help me I'd be very grateful. Gordon From grtdane at internode.on.net Sun Sep 18 08:56:43 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2011 17:56:43 +1000 Subject: Zoom H1 In-Reply-To: <0F894455-43FA-47FD-993F-BB074835F417@mac-access.net> References: <0F894455-43FA-47FD-993F-BB074835F417@mac-access.net> Message-ID: <4E75A43B.1060707@internode.on.net> Okay well firstly given that the Zoom H1 doesn't have any editing controls - well not yet at any rate - as part of its built in control set then you're going to have to do a little editing possibly on your computer so let's go through a few basics that may help make that task somewhat easier. Remember that the big round button on the front is your "Record/stop" toggle if you like, turn the recorder on and its in "Standby" mode, press the round button and recorder starts recording. Press the round button again and recorder stops recording and returns to "Standby". Press the round button again and the recorder starts recording to a new file, each new file is numbered in a sequence starting from 01. Now whilst in a recording you can "Mark" a particular position in a file and these markers are recognised by audio editors such as Sound Forge, Amadeus Pro and similar. To set a mark press the "Play" button on the right hand side of the recorder, from top to bottom the itmes on the right hand side are input jack, input up/down, fast forward, play, rewind and the small indented erase button, below that is the power on/off/lock slider switch. On 18/09/2011 5:48 PM, Gordon Smith wrote: > Hi all > > This is going to sound incredibly dumb. But I need a bit of help, from the blind person's perspective with regards using the H1 digital recorder. > > My only excuse is that I am physically and mentally battered just at the moment, because of all this darn medical stuff, drugs and physical ailments. > > Lynne can give me a helping hand from the perspective of somebody with vision. But if anybody could possibly give me a description of the controls I'd be grateful. I need to make an on-location recording in hospital tomorrow, and although I can edit the files when I get home, it would undoubtedly help if I have some manipulation capabilities with the machine itself. > > So if anybody could help me I'd be very grateful. > > Gordon > > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- -- Dane Trethowan From Melton Victoria Australia skype callto:grtdane12 MSN: grtdane at dane-trethowan.net From grtdane at internode.on.net Sun Sep 18 09:44:12 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2011 18:44:12 +1000 Subject: Minidisc: we've reached the end of the long and winding road Message-ID: <000D95E5-730A-4451-96D4-8534A7A79609@internode.on.net> And so its time to mourn the end of the Minidisc with the last model rolling off the Sony production line at the end of this month, Sony stopped producing blank Minidiscs earlier this month. Minidisc was first introduced to the world 20 years ago by Sony along side its compeditor the DCC - Digital Compact Cassette - from Phillips. Both these formats were deliberately marketed at the consumer, the idea of the DCC was that a cassette recorder could play/record on a digital media. The idea of the Minidisc was that a portable device could be offered to fit into a shirt pocket which would play pre-recorded audio and be able to record high quality audio. As we can see from history, DCC flopped which is interesting because the idea's a sound one - pardon the pun - and Minidisc ruled the roost. I first saw a portable minidisc recorder in late 1993 though I wasn't at all interested, I played about with the machine making some recordings and playing some pre-recorded MD'S which were available at the time but the media to me sounded extremely harsh and I refused the buy it, oddly the dealer of the Sony shop where I saw it agreed me me and suggested I perhaps look at a DAT - Digital Audio Tape - machine or wait a little longer when it came to the MD, I bought a DAT recorder and that's another story for another day and whilst it can be said beyond doubt that a DAT machine has provided me with the best audio recorder I've ever used it didn't come anywhere near MD for the manipulation of an audio recording. In 1994 I bought my first MD hi-fi deck and the dealer at the Sony shop was dead right! audio quality of recordings had improved quite a bit, a little furry at the top end but certainly very listenable. Bought my first MD portable in 1995 and audio quality had improved to the point where a recording made from a CD was much the same as the original, particularly if that recording was made with a digital lead linking source CD player to MD recorder. In 2001 I bought another MD recorder, a lot smaller than the first portable recorder I bought, this one did indeed fit a shirt pocket but yet this recorder did so much more, was able to play MP3 files, had various "Recording" modes to MD using different levels of compression or no compression at all, I think from memory you could record 11 hours of audio using 128K compression which sounded very reasonable when it came to music. The last generation of Minidisc I played with was a product beyond Sony's wildest dreams back in 1991, this little beauty could be used as an external drive on your computer so copy anything over to a Minidisc, press the play button and hear the music, see the pictures etc. Problem with this system was that the space on a MD was limited to 1GB, think Sony brought out a higher capacity blank MD which was backwards compatible with all MD recorders. So here we are at the end of the MD road and its the perfect time to reflect on this wonder development as I am doing. For many of us including myself it would have been the first experience had with digital recording and editing and ah! how very precise we thought the editing was, certainly far better than tape. I still have my 2001 portable MD unit here, works perfectly though I have to get a replacement rechargeable battery for it at some stage. I still use it because its the smallest thing in my audio toolbox which I can carry around with me allowing me to edit my recordings. From gordon at mac-access.net Sun Sep 18 11:02:20 2011 From: gordon at mac-access.net (Gordon Smith) Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2011 11:02:20 +0100 Subject: Minidisk In-Reply-To: <000D95E5-730A-4451-96D4-8534A7A79609@internode.on.net> References: <000D95E5-730A-4451-96D4-8534A7A79609@internode.on.net> Message-ID: I think you'll find that although the things may be out of production, it probably isn't the end of the story. There are still a lot of enthusiasts out there who use those things, including some community radio services which use them as a cheaper alternative for trills and promos. So I think there's still life in the old dog yet! On 18 Sep 2011, at 09:44, Dane Trethowan wrote: And so its time to mourn the end of the Minidisc with the last model rolling off the Sony production line at the end of this month, Sony stopped producing blank Minidiscs earlier this month. Minidisc was first introduced to the world 20 years ago by Sony along side its compeditor the DCC - Digital Compact Cassette - from Phillips. Both these formats were deliberately marketed at the consumer, the idea of the DCC was that a cassette recorder could play/record on a digital media. The idea of the Minidisc was that a portable device could be offered to fit into a shirt pocket which would play pre-recorded audio and be able to record high quality audio. As we can see from history, DCC flopped which is interesting because the idea's a sound one - pardon the pun - and Minidisc ruled the roost. I first saw a portable minidisc recorder in late 1993 though I wasn't at all interested, I played about with the machine making some recordings and playing some pre-recorded MD'S which were available at the time but the media to me sounded extremely harsh and I refused the buy it, oddly the dealer of the Sony shop where I saw it agreed me me and suggested I perhaps look at a DAT - Digital Audio Tape - machine or wait a little longer when it came to the MD, I bought a DAT recorder and that's another story for another day and whilst it can be said beyond doubt that a DAT machine has provided me with the best audio recorder I've ever used it didn't come anywhere near MD for the manipulation of an audio recording. In 1994 I bought my first MD hi-fi deck and the dealer at the Sony shop was dead right! audio quality of recordings had improved quite a bit, a little furry at the top end but certainly very listenable. Bought my first MD portable in 1995 and audio quality had improved to the point where a recording made from a CD was much the same as the original, particularly if that recording was made with a digital lead linking source CD player to MD recorder. In 2001 I bought another MD recorder, a lot smaller than the first portable recorder I bought, this one did indeed fit a shirt pocket but yet this recorder did so much more, was able to play MP3 files, had various "Recording" modes to MD using different levels of compression or no compression at all, I think from memory you could record 11 hours of audio using 128K compression which sounded very reasonable when it came to music. The last generation of Minidisc I played with was a product beyond Sony's wildest dreams back in 1991, this little beauty could be used as an external drive on your computer so copy anything over to a Minidisc, press the play button and hear the music, see the pictures etc. Problem with this system was that the space on a MD was limited to 1GB, think Sony brought out a higher capacity blank MD which was backwards compatible with all MD recorders. So here we are at the end of the MD road and its the perfect time to reflect on this wonder development as I am doing. For many of us including myself it would have been the first experience had with digital recording and editing and ah! how very precise we thought the editing was, certainly far better than tape. I still have my 2001 portable MD unit here, works perfectly though I have to get a replacement rechargeable battery for it at some stage. I still use it because its the smallest thing in my audio toolbox which I can carry around with me allowing me to edit my recordings. ======================================= The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html Or: you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: --------------------------------------- From grtdane at internode.on.net Sun Sep 18 11:49:07 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2011 20:49:07 +1000 Subject: Minidisk In-Reply-To: References: <000D95E5-730A-4451-96D4-8534A7A79609@internode.on.net> Message-ID: <68DCFD66-DD44-46BC-A6CE-2D13CBB5E07E@internode.on.net> You're probably quite right! production of DAT recorders and tape finished ages ago but yet professionals still use them. On 18/09/2011, at 8:02 PM, Gordon Smith wrote: > I think you'll find that although the things may be out of production, it probably isn't the end of the story. There are still a lot of enthusiasts out there who use those things, including some community radio services which use them as a cheaper alternative for trills and promos. > > So I think there's still life in the old dog yet! > > > On 18 Sep 2011, at 09:44, Dane Trethowan wrote: > > And so its time to mourn the end of the Minidisc with the last model rolling off the Sony production line at the end of this month, Sony stopped producing blank Minidiscs earlier this month. > > Minidisc was first introduced to the world 20 years ago by Sony along side its compeditor the DCC - Digital Compact Cassette - from Phillips. > > Both these formats were deliberately marketed at the consumer, the idea of the DCC was that a cassette recorder could play/record on a digital media. The idea of the Minidisc was that a portable device could be offered to fit into a shirt pocket which would play pre-recorded audio and be able to record high quality audio. > > As we can see from history, DCC flopped which is interesting because the idea's a sound one - pardon the pun - and Minidisc ruled the roost. > > I first saw a portable minidisc recorder in late 1993 though I wasn't at all interested, I played about with the machine making some recordings and playing some pre-recorded MD'S which were available at the time but the media to me sounded extremely harsh and I refused the buy it, oddly the dealer of the Sony shop where I saw it agreed me me and suggested I perhaps look at a DAT - Digital Audio Tape - machine or wait a little longer when it came to the MD, I bought a DAT recorder and that's another story for another day and whilst it can be said beyond doubt that a DAT machine has provided me with the best audio recorder I've ever used it didn't come anywhere near MD for the manipulation of an audio recording. > > In 1994 I bought my first MD hi-fi deck and the dealer at the Sony shop was dead right! audio quality of recordings had improved quite a bit, a little furry at the top end but certainly very listenable. > > Bought my first MD portable in 1995 and audio quality had improved to the point where a recording made from a CD was much the same as the original, particularly if that recording was made with a digital lead linking source CD player to MD recorder. > > In 2001 I bought another MD recorder, a lot smaller than the first portable recorder I bought, this one did indeed fit a shirt pocket but yet this recorder did so much more, was able to play MP3 files, had various "Recording" modes to MD using different levels of compression or no compression at all, I think from memory you could record 11 hours of audio using 128K compression which sounded very reasonable when it came to music. > > The last generation of Minidisc I played with was a product beyond Sony's wildest dreams back in 1991, this little beauty could be used as an external drive on your computer so copy anything over to a Minidisc, press the play button and hear the music, see the pictures etc. Problem with this system was that the space on a MD was limited to 1GB, think Sony brought out a higher capacity blank MD which was backwards compatible with all MD recorders. > > So here we are at the end of the MD road and its the perfect time to reflect on this wonder development as I am doing. > > For many of us including myself it would have been the first experience had with digital recording and editing and ah! how very precise we thought the editing was, certainly far better than tape. > > I still have my 2001 portable MD unit here, works perfectly though I have to get a replacement rechargeable battery for it at some stage. I still use it because its the smallest thing in my audio toolbox which I can carry around with me allowing me to edit my recordings. > > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- From grtdane at internode.on.net Sun Sep 18 15:38:43 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane trethowan) Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2011 00:38:43 +1000 Subject: SATA hard drives Message-ID: <4E760273.5080704@internode.on.net> Hi! Just wondering if there's such a thing as an external SATA hard drive which would work well with a Notebook? My HP notebook has a SATA port, does this port supply power to the drive as well like an externally powered USB hard drive? Is SATA faster than Firewire or USB, my notebook also has a mini Firewire port as well so i can use all 3 different standards of SATA, Firewire or USB. From lynne at mac-access.net Sun Sep 18 16:01:46 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2011 16:01:46 +0100 Subject: SATA hard drives In-Reply-To: <4E760273.5080704@internode.on.net> References: <4E760273.5080704@internode.on.net> Message-ID: <99B56B77-FC54-45BE-9C1E-E54A18EBE43E@mac-access.net> Yes, you can use an external SATA drive on your notebook. I haven't see a portable one but there are adapters for desktops I believe. Lynne On 18 Sep 2011, at 15:38, Dane trethowan wrote: Hi! Just wondering if there's such a thing as an external SATA hard drive which would work well with a Notebook? My HP notebook has a SATA port, does this port supply power to the drive as well like an externally powered USB hard drive? Is SATA faster than Firewire or USB, my notebook also has a mini Firewire port as well so i can use all 3 different standards of SATA, Firewire or USB. ======================================= The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html Or: you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: --------------------------------------- From grtdane at internode.on.net Sun Sep 18 16:05:14 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane trethowan) Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2011 01:05:14 +1000 Subject: SATA hard drives In-Reply-To: <99B56B77-FC54-45BE-9C1E-E54A18EBE43E@mac-access.net> References: <4E760273.5080704@internode.on.net> <99B56B77-FC54-45BE-9C1E-E54A18EBE43E@mac-access.net> Message-ID: <4E7608AA.50502@internode.on.net> Yep, you've confirmed pretty much what I was thinking, I've just checked and I do as a matter of fact have an external SATA drive in the form of my western Digital Mybook Studio drive however - given its size - you'd hardly carry that around with a Notebook . On 19/09/2011 1:01 AM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: > Yes, you can use an external SATA drive on your notebook. > > I haven't see a portable one but there are adapters for desktops I believe. > > Lynne > > On 18 Sep 2011, at 15:38, Dane trethowan wrote: > > Hi! > > Just wondering if there's such a thing as an external SATA hard drive which would work well with a Notebook? My HP notebook has a SATA port, does this port supply power to the drive as well like an externally powered USB hard drive? Is SATA faster than Firewire or USB, my notebook also has a mini Firewire port as well so i can use all 3 different standards of SATA, Firewire or USB. > > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- From lynne at mac-access.net Sun Sep 18 16:13:08 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2011 16:13:08 +0100 Subject: SATA hard drives In-Reply-To: <4E7608AA.50502@internode.on.net> References: <4E760273.5080704@internode.on.net> <99B56B77-FC54-45BE-9C1E-E54A18EBE43E@mac-access.net> <4E7608AA.50502@internode.on.net> Message-ID: <12F7C405-2D4B-4612-AE1D-C2F386BD390D@mac-access.net> Hello Dane Well, I am no expert; but I happen to have looked into this for other reasons. I've never seen or heard of a portable external SATA drive. So if you're looking for portability you might be out of luck. of course; it is entirely possible that there is a product I don't know about. in fact it's quite likely. Lynne On 18 Sep 2011, at 16:05, Dane trethowan wrote: Yep, you've confirmed pretty much what I was thinking, I've just checked and I do as a matter of fact have an external SATA drive in the form of my western Digital Mybook Studio drive however - given its size - you'd hardly carry that around with a Notebook . From support at mac-access.net Wed Sep 21 16:56:19 2011 From: support at mac-access.net (Gordon & Lynne) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2011 16:56:19 +0100 Subject: Important Change To List Policy; Please Read Message-ID: <86EDD72A-2FE4-41CB-9CEF-F589BA2BEC02@mac-access.net> Hello everybody In the light of a likely aggressive spam address managing to subscribe to one of our groups recently, Gordon has now modified the policy regarding new subscribers joining the list. Rather than the usual simple confirmation, new subscribers must now also be approved by either us or one of the assistant list controllers before they are permitted to join the group. We regret the change, but as a result of us opting to use Google to provide a second archive page for list traffic, we believe that it has compromised our security somewhat and so we've had to take this decision now, before things got out of control. We are also looking at whether it's worth continuing to use Google as a second archive provider; if anybody uses that archive or if anybody has any views on that we'd love to hear them (off list). We will shortly be compartmentalising the support addresses we use for each network, so stand by for a message to that effect as well. But for now, please use Gordon is home now although still very delicate. We are taking the opportunity while his activity is restricted to discuss this and other things which we are planning. We hope to bring you more news shortly. We will update the list policy document accordingly, to reflect this change in policy which, we regret, we think will now have to remain permanent. Lynne From lynne at mac-access.net Thu Sep 22 00:39:39 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2011 00:39:39 +0100 Subject: Android Message-ID: <85870E5D-0D15-4E4B-B613-F7C4E40D0059@mac-access.net> Hello everybody I just had an opportunity to have a good play around with a Motorola Android based mobile phone. First of all, the interface of this particular version of Android, (I gather there are a few different implementations), is horrible. I should add that I am not prejudiced here, although I use Apple devices. The screen controls really are nastily laid out and some of the menus made absolutely no sense at all. The interface itself is clunky and the phone actually crashed on me at least 5 times in about half an hour. The only way to recover it was a cold reset. Finding a contact when starting a text message in the contacts application is really messy. You have to first click on contacts, then on find a contact, then on your category, then on a group, then on the letter of the alphabet and then finally on your contact. If you're not careful, at that point, you cab delete your contact as well. All in all, with this Motorola implementation of Android at least, I'm very glad I don't have to use it and I was glad when I got our iPhone back in my hand. My friend is taking her Android phone back whence it came in the morning because it's just horrible! She's going to wait for the soon to be released iPhone 5. Lynne From grtdane at internode.on.net Thu Sep 22 01:45:25 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2011 10:45:25 +1000 Subject: Android In-Reply-To: <85870E5D-0D15-4E4B-B613-F7C4E40D0059@mac-access.net> References: <85870E5D-0D15-4E4B-B613-F7C4E40D0059@mac-access.net> Message-ID: <4E7A8525.1020800@internode.on.net> If anyone's interested in the Android system and how accessible it is with speech then I certainly recommend the excellent series on Android devices and accessibility found at I also recommend looking at the Access Word publication which has reviews of various Android products with speech, sorry I don't have a link handy . Code Factory also make products to help blind and visually impaired people get the most out of their android devices. And my view? Well I know blind people who who use Samsung Galaxy II Android devices and I've not heard them report any trouble, one of the people I know is a Mobile engineer for one of the big mobile carriers in Australia so he'd know what he was talking about. He swithced from Iphone 4 to the Galaxy II because of "performance" issues mainly, as a phone he found the Galaxy II out performs the Iphone 4 though this didn't come as any particular surprise to me, I remember when I had an Iphone and used it regularly, I also found when it came to a "Phone" my Nokia N85 gave superior audio quality, better connection and better range and so forth. I guess what I'm saying here that its "Horses For Courses" ahd when deciding on a device which is right for you do your research and take into consideration more than one opinion, particularly if you have concerns with accessibility. And as a final note yep, there are things I like about the Iphone and its main sstrengths in my view are the Apps, literally hundreds of thousands of accessible apps are available and this still is a problem for the Android platform, firstly you needed sighted asistance it would seem to even access the Android "Market Place" to install apps. As has been noted, there are many different variants of Android floating about including one which is being developped specifically for those who need accessibility so perhaps the problems with the "Market Place" will change in the not to distant future, we'll wait and see. On 22/09/2011 9:39 AM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: > Hello everybody > > I just had an opportunity to have a good play around with a Motorola Android based mobile phone. First of all, the interface of this particular version of Android, (I gather there are a few different implementations), is horrible. I should add that I am not prejudiced here, although I use Apple devices. The screen controls really are nastily laid out and some of the menus made absolutely no sense at all. > > The interface itself is clunky and the phone actually crashed on me at least 5 times in about half an hour. The only way to recover it was a cold reset. Finding a contact when starting a text message in the contacts application is really messy. You have to first click on contacts, then on find a contact, then on your category, then on a group, then on the letter of the alphabet and then finally on your contact. If you're not careful, at that point, you cab delete your contact as well. > > All in all, with this Motorola implementation of Android at least, I'm very glad I don't have to use it and I was glad when I got our iPhone back in my hand. My friend is taking her Android phone back whence it came in the morning because it's just horrible! She's going to wait for the soon to be released iPhone 5. > > Lynne > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- -- Dane Trethowan From Melton Victoria Australia skype callto:grtdane12 MSN: grtdane at dane-trethowan.net From lynne at mac-access.net Thu Sep 22 10:51:13 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2011 10:51:13 +0100 Subject: Android In-Reply-To: <4E7A8525.1020800@internode.on.net> References: <85870E5D-0D15-4E4B-B613-F7C4E40D0059@mac-access.net> <4E7A8525.1020800@internode.on.net> Message-ID: <7E91ACEA-38F3-458D-AFB3-A9FB31063E90@mac-access.net> Hello Dane This was never meant to be a "My toy's better than yours" argument so I'm glad you added the horses for courses bit. I did try my best to make it clear that I was referring to one particular device, not the overall interface which I know that people are using successfully. I have not, and have no intention of in the short term, checked out accessibility; which I have no motivation to do since we don't plan to buy one. But I have no problem with what you're saying and if it's true that there is accessibility then that is really great. I did not even look at accessibility when playing with this device. For one thing I didn't have the time or opportunity. For another it wasn't my device so I didn't want to start installing external applications. Technology, although I grant you that accessibility is a huge factor and for most people in this group is an essential, isn't the only consideration. This specific devices interface was, it seemed to both myself and its owner, flawed in many respects and I think the owner of this specific device is parting with it and sending it back whence it came. Now, I feel it's necessary to point out a couple of things per your message. The iPhone: You talk about its audio not being good. I'm bound to point out here Dane that, in all fairness, you have admitted yourself many times on this and other groups that your own hearing isn't the best. I regret that. But I'm pointing out here that it may be that the Nokia's audio attributes just happened to suit your own conditions better than did the iPhone. That's fine, I have no problem with that. But what I'm saying is that it may not be a basis, overall, to judge the quality of the iPhone's audio which, in my experience, is actually very good. You talk about the iPhone's connectivity and its range. Well I'm not sure why you've had problems like that; but I'm not deputing what you are saying. It may be that in your own circumstances, the iPhone didn't work well for you. That's fair enough; it's horses for courses as you rightly say. However, in our case, the iPhone will, for example, connect to a headset when the iPhone is downstairs and we are upstairs. According to the Bluetooth 2.0 specification, the range is supposed to be about 10 meters, (33 feet). We are actually seeing performance over and above that range with most devices we use; including the iPhone 3GS. Again, I am not, (and I can't stress this strongly enough because such "discussions" often seem to degenerate in to the usual and, I have to say, tedious "my toy's better than yours" dispute), doubting what you're saying or knocking anybody else's word. I'm simply speaking from experience as, I presume, are you. AS for your talk about engineers working for mobile phone companies, well; possibly they see things from different perspectives. But again, I'm not knocking or doubting what he's apparently said. I'm simply speaking from personal experience. We have used, and still do use a Jawbone Jambox in conjunction with our iPhone and iPad with amazing results. Connectivity is excellent in both cases; we can leave the iPad downstairs and take the Jambox upstairs with no degradation in signal or quality of audio which, from the Jambox, is superb. Gordon is going to produce his own podcast on the Jambox when he's able. he will demonstrate how it can be used as a music player and as a speaker phone for any bluetooth compatible mobile or cordless phone. But getting back to the original topic which I raised, I have a curiosity, I have to admit, about the Smsung Galaxy; of which I have heard good things. So I plan to make it my business to have a play with one at the earliest opportunity. I'll then be able to judge for myself which device I prefer. "Better", in this context, is a very subjective term. Dane talks about which device is "better" in terms of audio connectivity and performance. That is down to individual taste and requirements. So let me just sum up by saying that what I have seen so far of Android doesn't do much to impress me. I've seen 2 devices; although it wouldn't be fair to judge by the first because it was some time ago and that device is no longer on sale. But the second device is a new Motorola model and it was clunky and prone to crashes. That device has, I assume, a fairly recent version of Android installed, although again it could be down to implementation. It was new out of the box yesterday and I think will be back in its box by now as the owner planned to get shot of it. But that does not mean that the platform as a whole is useless; nor do I intend to suggest such. Nor, contrary to what some appear to believe, do I mean to suggest that Apple is the only way to go. Actually there are several things we don't like about iOS4 which, I'm glad to say, are up for improvement shortly. But I think one would be somewhat churlish not to look at alternatives if one was looking for a new device. As it happens, we are not looking for that at the moment and certainly won't be until the pending release of both iPhone 5 and iOS 5. That way we can judge for ourselves which is the best way to go. Our iPhone 3GS which has served us well over the last couple of years, is becoming a bit battered now and may be up for replacement soon. So we'll see which way we opt to go. But the one thing Apple does have on their side is that accessibility is in-built. I think that, if other developers are charging high prices for their accessibility tools, that too might push us into continuing with Apple. But that said the iPhone isn't exactly cheap, so we'll see. OK, enough waffle; I'm off to listen to some music on our Jambox while catching up with some admin. The audio quality that comes out of that device has to be heard to be believed. Lynne On 22 Sep 2011, at 01:45, Dane Trethowan wrote: If anyone's interested in the Android system and how accessible it is with speech then I certainly recommend the excellent series on Android devices and accessibility found at I also recommend looking at the Access Word publication which has reviews of various Android products with speech, sorry I don't have a link handy . Code Factory also make products to help blind and visually impaired people get the most out of their android devices. And my view? Well I know blind people who who use Samsung Galaxy II Android devices and I've not heard them report any trouble, one of the people I know is a Mobile engineer for one of the big mobile carriers in Australia so he'd know what he was talking about. He swithced from Iphone 4 to the Galaxy II because of "performance" issues mainly, as a phone he found the Galaxy II out performs the Iphone 4 though this didn't come as any particular surprise to me, I remember when I had an Iphone and used it regularly, I also found when it came to a "Phone" my Nokia N85 gave superior audio quality, better connection and better range and so forth. I guess what I'm saying here that its "Horses For Courses" ahd when deciding on a device which is right for you do your research and take into consideration more than one opinion, particularly if you have concerns with accessibility. And as a final note yep, there are things I like about the Iphone and its main sstrengths in my view are the Apps, literally hundreds of thousands of accessible apps are available and this still is a problem for the Android platform, firstly you needed sighted asistance it would seem to even access the Android "Market Place" to install apps. As has been noted, there are many different variants of Android floating about including one which is being developped specifically for those who need accessibility so perhaps the problems with the "Market Place" will change in the not to distant future, we'll wait and see. From grtdane at internode.on.net Thu Sep 22 11:00:42 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2011 20:00:42 +1000 Subject: Android In-Reply-To: <7E91ACEA-38F3-458D-AFB3-A9FB31063E90@mac-access.net> References: <85870E5D-0D15-4E4B-B613-F7C4E40D0059@mac-access.net> <4E7A8525.1020800@internode.on.net> <7E91ACEA-38F3-458D-AFB3-A9FB31063E90@mac-access.net> Message-ID: <9792104B-3FAD-48FD-BD37-9E7B8AF17D57@internode.on.net> I'd like to comment regarding your points on audio for the Iphone. Yep, I have a hearing impairment and I don't deny that and nor do I hide it but I don't particularly like people using my hearing impairment to put down any point I'm trying to make. It can be said quite truthfully that people with hearing impairments are often more fussy about the quality of audio than people who have full hearing and that's probably because we need to make the most of our hearing. All I say to you is, listen to the audio on the internal speaker of an Iphone and then get something else like a Nokia N85 and compare the difference for yourself. The audio of the phone of the Iphone is well known for not being "The Best" despite what I say, yep its far better than "The Worst" but certainly not "The Best". I know plenty of people who have both an Iphone and another device, whether that be a Talks compatible or Windows Mobile compatible phone for this very reason, they get better performance from the phone on the other device than they do from an Iphone. Obviously I can't comment on your particular Android phone having never seen nor played with it let alone know what model of Android phone you have nor the brand or manufacturer but what I can do is comment on the Android phone I have played with which is the hugely successful Samsung Galaxy II and I've made some observations in the previous message. Again, the phone of this device out performed that of the Iphone and its not just me who says this from my testing, I stated that I know a Mobile Engineer who is also blind who works for one of the big phone company's in Australia and testing mobile phones and evaluating them is part of his job. On 22/09/2011, at 7:51 PM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: > Hello Dane > > This was never meant to be a "My toy's better than yours" argument so I'm glad you added the horses for courses bit. I did try my best to make it clear that I was referring to one particular device, not the overall interface which I know that people are using successfully. > > I have not, and have no intention of in the short term, checked out accessibility; which I have no motivation to do since we don't plan to buy one. But I have no problem with what you're saying and if it's true that there is accessibility then that is really great. I did not even look at accessibility when playing with this device. For one thing I didn't have the time or opportunity. For another it wasn't my device so I didn't want to start installing external applications. > > Technology, although I grant you that accessibility is a huge factor and for most people in this group is an essential, isn't the only consideration. This specific devices interface was, it seemed to both myself and its owner, flawed in many respects and I think the owner of this specific device is parting with it and sending it back whence it came. > > Now, I feel it's necessary to point out a couple of things per your message. The iPhone: You talk about its audio not being good. I'm bound to point out here Dane that, in all fairness, you have admitted yourself many times on this and other groups that your own hearing isn't the best. I regret that. But I'm pointing out here that it may be that the Nokia's audio attributes just happened to suit your own conditions better than did the iPhone. That's fine, I have no problem with that. But what I'm saying is that it may not be a basis, overall, to judge the quality of the iPhone's audio which, in my experience, is actually very good. > > You talk about the iPhone's connectivity and its range. Well I'm not sure why you've had problems like that; but I'm not deputing what you are saying. It may be that in your own circumstances, the iPhone didn't work well for you. That's fair enough; it's horses for courses as you rightly say. However, in our case, the iPhone will, for example, connect to a headset when the iPhone is downstairs and we are upstairs. According to the Bluetooth 2.0 specification, the range is supposed to be about 10 meters, (33 feet). We are actually seeing performance over and above that range with most devices we use; including the iPhone 3GS. > > Again, I am not, (and I can't stress this strongly enough because such "discussions" often seem to degenerate in to the usual and, I have to say, tedious "my toy's better than yours" dispute), doubting what you're saying or knocking anybody else's word. I'm simply speaking from experience as, I presume, are you. > > AS for your talk about engineers working for mobile phone companies, well; possibly they see things from different perspectives. But again, I'm not knocking or doubting what he's apparently said. I'm simply speaking from personal experience. > > We have used, and still do use a Jawbone Jambox in conjunction with our iPhone and iPad with amazing results. Connectivity is excellent in both cases; we can leave the iPad downstairs and take the Jambox upstairs with no degradation in signal or quality of audio which, from the Jambox, is superb. Gordon is going to produce his own podcast on the Jambox when he's able. he will demonstrate how it can be used as a music player and as a speaker phone for any bluetooth compatible mobile or cordless phone. > > But getting back to the original topic which I raised, I have a curiosity, I have to admit, about the Smsung Galaxy; of which I have heard good things. So I plan to make it my business to have a play with one at the earliest opportunity. I'll then be able to judge for myself which device I prefer. "Better", in this context, is a very subjective term. Dane talks about which device is "better" in terms of audio connectivity and performance. That is down to individual taste and requirements. So let me just sum up by saying that what I have seen so far of Android doesn't do much to impress me. I've seen 2 devices; although it wouldn't be fair to judge by the first because it was some time ago and that device is no longer on sale. But the second device is a new Motorola model and it was clunky and prone to crashes. That device has, I assume, a fairly recent version of Android installed, although again it could be down to implementation. It was new out of the box yesterday and I th > ink will be back in its box by now as the owner planned to get shot of it. > > But that does not mean that the platform as a whole is useless; nor do I intend to suggest such. Nor, contrary to what some appear to believe, do I mean to suggest that Apple is the only way to go. Actually there are several things we don't like about iOS4 which, I'm glad to say, are up for improvement shortly. But I think one would be somewhat churlish not to look at alternatives if one was looking for a new device. As it happens, we are not looking for that at the moment and certainly won't be until the pending release of both iPhone 5 and iOS 5. That way we can judge for ourselves which is the best way to go. > > Our iPhone 3GS which has served us well over the last couple of years, is becoming a bit battered now and may be up for replacement soon. So we'll see which way we opt to go. But the one thing Apple does have on their side is that accessibility is in-built. I think that, if other developers are charging high prices for their accessibility tools, that too might push us into continuing with Apple. But that said the iPhone isn't exactly cheap, so we'll see. > > OK, enough waffle; I'm off to listen to some music on our Jambox while catching up with some admin. The audio quality that comes out of that device has to be heard to be believed. > > Lynne > > > On 22 Sep 2011, at 01:45, Dane Trethowan wrote: > > If anyone's interested in the Android system and how accessible it is with speech then I certainly recommend the excellent series on Android devices and accessibility found at > > I also recommend looking at the Access Word publication which has reviews of various Android products with speech, sorry I don't have a link handy . > > Code Factory also make products to help blind and visually impaired people get the most out of their android devices. > > And my view? Well I know blind people who who use Samsung Galaxy II Android devices and I've not heard them report any trouble, one of the people I know is a Mobile engineer for one of the big mobile carriers in Australia so he'd know what he was talking about. > > He swithced from Iphone 4 to the Galaxy II because of "performance" issues mainly, as a phone he found the Galaxy II out performs the Iphone 4 though this didn't come as any particular surprise to me, I remember when I had an Iphone and used it regularly, I also found when it came to a "Phone" my Nokia N85 gave superior audio quality, better connection and better range and so forth. > > I guess what I'm saying here that its "Horses For Courses" ahd when deciding on a device which is right for you do your research and take into consideration more than one opinion, particularly if you have concerns with accessibility. > > And as a final note yep, there are things I like about the Iphone and its main sstrengths in my view are the Apps, literally hundreds of thousands of accessible apps are available and this still is a problem for the Android platform, firstly you needed sighted asistance it would seem to even access the Android "Market Place" to install apps. As has been noted, there are many different variants of Android floating about including one which is being developped specifically for those who need accessibility so perhaps the problems with the "Market Place" will change in the not to distant future, we'll wait and see. > > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- From lynne at mac-access.net Thu Sep 22 11:41:05 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2011 11:41:05 +0100 Subject: Android In-Reply-To: <9792104B-3FAD-48FD-BD37-9E7B8AF17D57@internode.on.net> References: <85870E5D-0D15-4E4B-B613-F7C4E40D0059@mac-access.net> <4E7A8525.1020800@internode.on.net> <7E91ACEA-38F3-458D-AFB3-A9FB31063E90@mac-access.net> <9792104B-3FAD-48FD-BD37-9E7B8AF17D57@internode.on.net> Message-ID: <73A1DCFB-7C83-4F96-B316-C86A9FED8B9E@mac-access.net> Hello Dane On 22 Sep 2011, at 11:00, Dane Trethowan wrote: ? Yep, I have a hearing impairment and I don't deny that and nor do I hide it but I don't particularly like people using my hearing impairment to put down any point I'm trying to make. I think you've taken this out of context. I am *Not* trying to "Put down" anything. I'm simply trying to make the point that what sounds good to you may sound different to others. Just as is true visa versa. ? It can be said quite truthfully that people with hearing impairments are often more fussy about the quality of audio than people who have full hearing and that's probably because we need to make the most of our hearing. I totally agree with that. I am not trying to put you down in any way at all. ? All I say to you is, listen to the audio on the internal speaker of an Iphone and then get something else like a Nokia N85 and compare the difference for yourself. I already have, and that's precisely the point I'm trying to make. ? The audio of the phone of the Iphone is well known for not being "The Best" despite what I say, yep its far better than "The Worst" but certainly not "The Best". I don't ever claim it is "the best". ? I know plenty of people who have both an Iphone and another device, whether that be a Talks compatible or Windows Mobile compatible phone for this very reason, they get better performance from the phone on the other device than they do from an iPhone. Again that's down to personal choice. ? Obviously I can't comment on your particular Android phone having never seen nor played with it let alone know what model of Android phone you have nor the brand or manufacturer but what I can do is comment on the Android phone I have played with which is the hugely successful Samsung Galaxy II and I've made some observations in the previous message. It wasn't mine. ? Again, the phone of this device out performed that of the Iphone and its not just me who says this from my testing, I stated that I know a Mobile Engineer who is also blind who works for one of the big phone company's in Australia and testing mobile phones and evaluating them is part of his job. I can't comment as I've never used one. But I say again Dane, I was not trying to put you or anybody else down. I was simply making the perfectly fair point that things sound different to a hearing aid user to how they sound naturally. Neither you nor anybody else could deny that because it's true. Lynne From grtdane at internode.on.net Thu Sep 22 11:56:33 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2011 20:56:33 +1000 Subject: Android In-Reply-To: <73A1DCFB-7C83-4F96-B316-C86A9FED8B9E@mac-access.net> References: <85870E5D-0D15-4E4B-B613-F7C4E40D0059@mac-access.net> <4E7A8525.1020800@internode.on.net> <7E91ACEA-38F3-458D-AFB3-A9FB31063E90@mac-access.net> <9792104B-3FAD-48FD-BD37-9E7B8AF17D57@internode.on.net> <73A1DCFB-7C83-4F96-B316-C86A9FED8B9E@mac-access.net> Message-ID: <25A56213-C8E8-4F10-9AC8-CD011E7D2CF8@internode.on.net> Well I don't agree with your comments I'm afraid and perhaps I should ask are you really serious in this discussion? What I mean is that I've pointed out sites and reference info which will give you more information on Android in this case and you say you don't have time to look at this and yet you're quite happy to tell us how you understand people with disabilities and their needs? If I heard anyone else making a statement like that then I could quite rightly assume that the person making that sort of statement was up themselves and didn't want to learn what may be available in the world of accessibility and technology and the only loser through such an attitude would be those nearest and dearest to them who may need accessible equipment whatever that is. On 22/09/2011, at 8:41 PM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: > Hello Dane > > On 22 Sep 2011, at 11:00, Dane Trethowan wrote: > > ? Yep, I have a hearing impairment and I don't deny that and nor do I hide it but I don't particularly like people using my hearing impairment to put down any point I'm trying to make. > > I think you've taken this out of context. I am *Not* trying to "Put down" anything. I'm simply trying to make the point that what sounds good to you may sound different to others. Just as is true visa versa. > > ? It can be said quite truthfully that people with hearing impairments are often more fussy about the quality of audio than people who have full hearing and that's probably because we need to make the most of our hearing. > > I totally agree with that. I am not trying to put you down in any way at all. > > ? All I say to you is, listen to the audio on the internal speaker of an Iphone and then get something else like a Nokia N85 and compare the difference for yourself. > > I already have, and that's precisely the point I'm trying to make. > > ? The audio of the phone of the Iphone is well known for not being "The Best" despite what I say, yep its far better than "The Worst" but certainly not "The Best". > > I don't ever claim it is "the best". > > ? I know plenty of people who have both an Iphone and another device, whether that be a Talks compatible or Windows Mobile compatible phone for this very reason, they get better performance from the phone on the other device than they do from an iPhone. > > Again that's down to personal choice. > > ? Obviously I can't comment on your particular Android phone having never seen nor played with it let alone know what model of Android phone you have nor the brand or manufacturer but what I can do is comment on the Android phone I have played with which is the hugely successful Samsung Galaxy II and I've made some observations in the previous message. > > It wasn't mine. > > ? Again, the phone of this device out performed that of the Iphone and its not just me who says this from my testing, I stated that I know a Mobile Engineer who is also blind who works for one of the big phone company's in Australia and testing mobile phones and evaluating them is part of his job. > > I can't comment as I've never used one. > > But I say again Dane, I was not trying to put you or anybody else down. I was simply making the perfectly fair point that things sound different to a hearing aid user to how they sound naturally. Neither you nor anybody else could deny that because it's true. > > Lynne > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- From lynne at mac-access.net Thu Sep 22 12:35:48 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2011 12:35:48 +0100 Subject: Android In-Reply-To: <25A56213-C8E8-4F10-9AC8-CD011E7D2CF8@internode.on.net> References: <85870E5D-0D15-4E4B-B613-F7C4E40D0059@mac-access.net> <4E7A8525.1020800@internode.on.net> <7E91ACEA-38F3-458D-AFB3-A9FB31063E90@mac-access.net> <9792104B-3FAD-48FD-BD37-9E7B8AF17D57@internode.on.net> <73A1DCFB-7C83-4F96-B316-C86A9FED8B9E@mac-access.net> <25A56213-C8E8-4F10-9AC8-CD011E7D2CF8@internode.on.net> Message-ID: Hello Dane On 22 Sep 2011, at 11:56, Dane Trethowan wrote: ? Well I don't agree with your comments I'm afraid and perhaps I should ask are you really serious in this discussion? Yes, perfectly. But I'm not prepared to allow this to turn into an argument. ? What I mean is that I've pointed out sites and reference info which will give you more information on Android in this case and you say you don't have time to look at this and yet you're quite happy to tell us how you understand people with disabilities and their needs? I don't recall disputing it; nor saying I wouldn't look. Where's your problem? ? If I heard anyone else making a statement like that then I could quite rightly assume that the person making that sort of statement was up themselves and didn't want to learn what may be available in the world of accessibility and technology and the only loser through such an attitude would be those nearest and dearest to them who may need accessible equipment whatever that is. Dane; you're twisting everything I say. I also take those comments as being extremely distasteful. I am neither not interested in accessibility which, as I keep saying, doesn't even come into this since I did not try it from the perspective of accessibility, I didn't have the time to investigate that. It wasn't my device and I only had it here for a bout an hour. But it seems you're determined to twist everything I say to make it look as though I'm trying to do you down, which I am not. This happens every time I try to start a discussion, it seems. So perhaps I'd better just keep my mouth shut and let you get ob with it. Do you hear me arguing when, for instance, you start talking about your new toys; printers, laptops, whatever? No, you don't because I've never tried them and have no interest in doing so. But for the record, just so other members of the group are aware of the true facts. I am acutely interested in accessibility. Nor am I, to use Dane's phrase, "Up myself". I have, and will continue to, gone out of my way to find out as much as I can about accessibility. I do not claim to be an expert; nor do I claim to know everything about things like Android. I simply based my comments on a specific device, and I made it perfectly clear in my message that I am well aware that things are different elsewhere. I also made it clear that I did not have the time to investigate accessibility because the device belonged to somebody else; and was only here for about an hour. Those who are not determined to twist my comments to suit their own ends will understand I am sure that I actually intended to get the point across that the initial tests were a basis on which I intend to formulate opinions when I try other similar devices; which I do intend to do. Accessibility is one aspect I would love to investigate, and will do when I get the opportunity to play with a device for long enough. But it's difficult within the space of an hour to test everything, look around websites, do this, that and the other. Clearly though there are those who don't seem to understand that. I think that is sad. Accessibility is obviously important to those who rely on it. Since my own spouse is one of those people and, I should point out, he too has a hearing impairment, I do make it my own business to investigate. But perhaps I should jut keep my thoughts and findings to myself since it's clear that everything I, as somebody not in the same position, say about things like this are being twisted and manipulated to suit other people's interpretations. That's one of the sad things about email I guess; but be that as it may, for the record, I am not making across-the-board judgements. Nor am I trying to put anybody down. Nor am I trying to state that anybody else's opinions or findings are wrong, invalid or unimportant. Nor am I trying to belittle anybody. Nor am I trying to state that my knowledge is greater than anybody else's; quite the contrary. I would enjoy participating in impersonal,objective and fair discussion. I would also have no problem with anybody informing me of fact if I make incorrect assumptions or observations. But what I do object too is people effectively putting words into my mouth and twisting what I say. Lynne From lynne at mac-access.net Thu Sep 22 13:02:02 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2011 13:02:02 +0100 Subject: The Price of specialist equipment Message-ID: <9B9E5BDB-8B75-4041-8B1B-396E0A8FB4D9@mac-access.net> Hello everybody At the risk of being accused of trying to put people down, I am going to raise one further subject because this is something that I find outrageous. I was just looking on a website here in the UK which is that of a company which sell equipment for the hearing impaired. . They sell a series of items designed for hearing aid users in an environment where it is difficult to hear the spoken content. For instance in a lecture room, meeting or similar where the desired audio source is either a considerable distance from the listener, or where the background noise makes it difficult for the listener to hear what's being said. These devices use Bluetooth to communicate with a receiver that's either at ear level or which interfaces with a hearing instrument to give the listener access to a desired audio source via a radio microphone which the speaker either wears or holds. The transmitter and receiver, as a kit, cost over ?1100 Pounds Sterling. That, I would think, is way beyond the reach of most individuals, and I think it's absolutely outrageous that a company supposedly there to "help" the disabled is charging quite so much for its products. No; I'm not dumb! I understand fully that developers have to eat. I also understand that companies and developers have to make a reasonable profit on what they're selling. But that is outrageous. We're talking nothing but a transmitter/receiver here and nobody can convince me that a transmitter/receiver kit is going to cost anywhere close to that kind of money to develop. That, to me, is profiteering above and beyond the "reasonable" and I'm disgusted. I have already written to the company concerned to express my views. I don't for a second expect to receive a response; nor do I expect them to take notice of what I said. But I have at least made my views known. I think it's utterly wrong that those who are afflicted by what is a very debilitating disability should be victimised in that way, just because they can't take advantage of what the rest of us take for granted. Now I hope nobody will twist what I'm saying; but I think it's grossly unfair that companies are able to profit in that way in a market which, I accept, is a minority market. All the same, there should be some kind of dispensation for individuals struggling to buy that kind of equipment for their own use. Lynne From grtdane at internode.on.net Thu Sep 22 13:25:36 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2011 22:25:36 +1000 Subject: The Price of specialist equipment In-Reply-To: <9B9E5BDB-8B75-4041-8B1B-396E0A8FB4D9@mac-access.net> References: <9B9E5BDB-8B75-4041-8B1B-396E0A8FB4D9@mac-access.net> Message-ID: <4E7B2940.80708@internode.on.net> I agree with all this though I have to say that Bluetooth would be the last platform I'd be using for this sort of thing because of the delays involved, now perhaps to be fair the developers of this ket you're talking about have found a way around the delay factor and perhaps that's where some of the cost comes in, this kit may use custom chips or something who knows but whether or not this is the case its still a nasty pain to the hip pocket. I have a system with my hearing instruments that uses some sort of FM transmitter/receiving system and its digitally encoded somehow so as to prevent static and I paid half the price you're quoting so I'm wondering if there's an alternative kit or model you can look at. The model I have connects directly to a connector at the back of the hearing instrument and is powered from there. If someone is wishing to speak to the wearing of the hearing instrument then they were the microphone with the FM transmitter round their neck and speak into this, the conversation is then transmitted directly to the hearing instrument. The transmitter can be programmed for multiple operations, for example you can ttransmit a line in source - say a tape recorder - to one receiver connected to the right ear whilst transmitting someone's speech or another source to the left ear and this sort of arrangement can be damn handy for those times when you need extra description for slides at a lecture etc. On 22/09/2011 10:02 PM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: > Hello everybody > > At the risk of being accused of trying to put people down, I am going to raise one further subject because this is something that I find outrageous. > > I was just looking on a website here in the UK which is that of a company which sell equipment for the hearing impaired.. They sell a series of items designed for hearing aid users in an environment where it is difficult to hear the spoken content. For instance in a lecture room, meeting or similar where the desired audio source is either a considerable distance from the listener, or where the background noise makes it difficult for the listener to hear what's being said. > > These devices use Bluetooth to communicate with a receiver that's either at ear level or which interfaces with a hearing instrument to give the listener access to a desired audio source via a radio microphone which the speaker either wears or holds. > > The transmitter and receiver, as a kit, cost over ?1100 Pounds Sterling. That, I would think, is way beyond the reach of most individuals, and I think it's absolutely outrageous that a company supposedly there to "help" the disabled is charging quite so much for its products. > > No; I'm not dumb! I understand fully that developers have to eat. I also understand that companies and developers have to make a reasonable profit on what they're selling. But that is outrageous. We're talking nothing but a transmitter/receiver here and nobody can convince me that a transmitter/receiver kit is going to cost anywhere close to that kind of money to develop. That, to me, is profiteering above and beyond the "reasonable" and I'm disgusted. I have already written to the company concerned to express my views. I don't for a second expect to receive a response; nor do I expect them to take notice of what I said. But I have at least made my views known. > > I think it's utterly wrong that those who are afflicted by what is a very debilitating disability should be victimised in that way, just because they can't take advantage of what the rest of us take for granted. > > Now I hope nobody will twist what I'm saying; but I think it's grossly unfair that companies are able to profit in that way in a market which, I accept, is a minority market. All the same, there should be some kind of dispensation for individuals struggling to buy that kind of equipment for their own use. > > Lynne > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- -- Dane Trethowan Sending email from his EEEPC Netbook From gordon at mac-access.net Thu Sep 22 13:52:28 2011 From: gordon at mac-access.net (Gordon Smith) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2011 13:52:28 +0100 Subject: The Price of specialist equipment In-Reply-To: <4E7B2940.80708@internode.on.net> References: <9B9E5BDB-8B75-4041-8B1B-396E0A8FB4D9@mac-access.net> <4E7B2940.80708@internode.on.net> Message-ID: <0651092A-7429-4BEB-8917-D7DB55C82893@mac-access.net> Hello Dane Actually I was wrong about Bluetooth. The equipment they sell is FM, as you describe. But there are a number of designs. Some of them work with an input she, some of them work by interfacing with the iCom which I bought for Gordon a while back. Actually he has 2 of them now, and that pay dividends. There's a device which gods with the iCom which I also bought him called a "TVLink. Perhaps a misleading name; because the device works with any audio source. Yes, there is a delay of a very short period but it isn't enough to cause Gordon problems. But the microphone transmitters are FM with digital coupling so I'm sorry I gave inaccurate information there. Some of them as I said use the iCom and some use an input shoe directly. But the problem with those which use the input shoe is cables. The reason we were looking at the iCom type is that they are cable-free apart from the lead between the iCom and the receiver. I think the problem with the shoe type is that there is a cable leading from the ear, which could get in the way. Also the iCom can, unless it's overridden when the Euro socket is in use, also be used with the phone at the same time. The iCom can be paired with up to 8 simultaneous devices if it has the latest, open firmware. Phonak has released their firmware source to outside developers which is interesting. Anyway, yes; I was slightly wrong about the transmitter. You're correct, they af FM rather than Blue Tooth. Lynne On 22 Sep 2011, at 13:25, Dane Trethowan wrote: I agree with all this though I have to say that Bluetooth would be the last platform I'd be using for this sort of thing because of the delays involved, now perhaps to be fair the developers of this ket you're talking about have found a way around the delay factor and perhaps that's where some of the cost comes in, this kit may use custom chips or something who knows but whether or not this is the case its still a nasty pain to the hip pocket. I have a system with my hearing instruments that uses some sort of FM transmitter/receiving system and its digitally encoded somehow so as to prevent static and I paid half the price you're quoting so I'm wondering if there's an alternative kit or model you can look at. The model I have connects directly to a connector at the back of the hearing instrument and is powered from there. If someone is wishing to speak to the wearing of the hearing instrument then they were the microphone with the FM transmitter round their neck and speak into this, the conversation is then transmitted directly to the hearing instrument. The transmitter can be programmed for multiple operations, for example you can ttransmit a line in source - say a tape recorder - to one receiver connected to the right ear whilst transmitting someone's speech or another source to the left ear and this sort of arrangement can be damn handy for those times when you need extra description for slides at a lecture etc. On 22/09/2011 10:02 PM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: > Hello everybody > > At the risk of being accused of trying to put people down, I am going to raise one further subject because this is something that I find outrageous. > > I was just looking on a website here in the UK which is that of a company which sell equipment for the hearing impaired.. They sell a series of items designed for hearing aid users in an environment where it is difficult to hear the spoken content. For instance in a lecture room, meeting or similar where the desired audio source is either a considerable distance from the listener, or where the background noise makes it difficult for the listener to hear what's being said. > > These devices use Bluetooth to communicate with a receiver that's either at ear level or which interfaces with a hearing instrument to give the listener access to a desired audio source via a radio microphone which the speaker either wears or holds. > > The transmitter and receiver, as a kit, cost over ?1100 Pounds Sterling. That, I would think, is way beyond the reach of most individuals, and I think it's absolutely outrageous that a company supposedly there to "help" the disabled is charging quite so much for its products. > > No; I'm not dumb! I understand fully that developers have to eat. I also understand that companies and developers have to make a reasonable profit on what they're selling. But that is outrageous. We're talking nothing but a transmitter/receiver here and nobody can convince me that a transmitter/receiver kit is going to cost anywhere close to that kind of money to develop. That, to me, is profiteering above and beyond the "reasonable" and I'm disgusted. I have already written to the company concerned to express my views. I don't for a second expect to receive a response; nor do I expect them to take notice of what I said. But I have at least made my views known. > > I think it's utterly wrong that those who are afflicted by what is a very debilitating disability should be victimised in that way, just because they can't take advantage of what the rest of us take for granted. > > Now I hope nobody will twist what I'm saying; but I think it's grossly unfair that companies are able to profit in that way in a market which, I accept, is a minority market. All the same, there should be some kind of dispensation for individuals struggling to buy that kind of equipment for their own use. > > Lynne > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- -- Dane Trethowan Sending email from his EEEPC Netbook ======================================= The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html Or: you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: --------------------------------------- From lynne at mac-access.net Thu Sep 22 13:53:02 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2011 13:53:02 +0100 Subject: The Price of specialist equipment In-Reply-To: <0651092A-7429-4BEB-8917-D7DB55C82893@mac-access.net> References: <9B9E5BDB-8B75-4041-8B1B-396E0A8FB4D9@mac-access.net> <4E7B2940.80708@internode.on.net> <0651092A-7429-4BEB-8917-D7DB55C82893@mac-access.net> Message-ID: <32C2EBFB-FA8F-42F9-91D9-075E73121DA2@mac-access.net> Why do I keep forgetting to change accounts? On 22 Sep 2011, at 13:52, Gordon Smith wrote: Hello Dane Actually I was wrong about Bluetooth. The equipment they sell is FM, as you describe. But there are a number of designs. Some of them work with an input she, some of them work by interfacing with the iCom which I bought for Gordon a while back. Actually he has 2 of them now, and that pay dividends. There's a device which gods with the iCom which I also bought him called a "TVLink. Perhaps a misleading name; because the device works with any audio source. Yes, there is a delay of a very short period but it isn't enough to cause Gordon problems. But the microphone transmitters are FM with digital coupling so I'm sorry I gave inaccurate information there. Some of them as I said use the iCom and some use an input shoe directly. But the problem with those which use the input shoe is cables. The reason we were looking at the iCom type is that they are cable-free apart from the lead between the iCom and the receiver. I think the problem with the shoe type is that there is a cable leading from the ear, which could get in the way. Also the iCom can, unless it's overridden when the Euro socket is in use, also be used with the phone at the same time. The iCom can be paired with up to 8 simultaneous devices if it has the latest, open firmware. Phonak has released their firmware source to outside developers which is interesting. Anyway, yes; I was slightly wrong about the transmitter. You're correct, they af FM rather than Blue Tooth. Lynne On 22 Sep 2011, at 13:25, Dane Trethowan wrote: I agree with all this though I have to say that Bluetooth would be the last platform I'd be using for this sort of thing because of the delays involved, now perhaps to be fair the developers of this ket you're talking about have found a way around the delay factor and perhaps that's where some of the cost comes in, this kit may use custom chips or something who knows but whether or not this is the case its still a nasty pain to the hip pocket. I have a system with my hearing instruments that uses some sort of FM transmitter/receiving system and its digitally encoded somehow so as to prevent static and I paid half the price you're quoting so I'm wondering if there's an alternative kit or model you can look at. The model I have connects directly to a connector at the back of the hearing instrument and is powered from there. If someone is wishing to speak to the wearing of the hearing instrument then they were the microphone with the FM transmitter round their neck and speak into this, the conversation is then transmitted directly to the hearing instrument. The transmitter can be programmed for multiple operations, for example you can ttransmit a line in source - say a tape recorder - to one receiver connected to the right ear whilst transmitting someone's speech or another source to the left ear and this sort of arrangement can be damn handy for those times when you need extra description for slides at a lecture etc. On 22/09/2011 10:02 PM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: > Hello everybody > > At the risk of being accused of trying to put people down, I am going to raise one further subject because this is something that I find outrageous. > > I was just looking on a website here in the UK which is that of a company which sell equipment for the hearing impaired.. They sell a series of items designed for hearing aid users in an environment where it is difficult to hear the spoken content. For instance in a lecture room, meeting or similar where the desired audio source is either a considerable distance from the listener, or where the background noise makes it difficult for the listener to hear what's being said. > > These devices use Bluetooth to communicate with a receiver that's either at ear level or which interfaces with a hearing instrument to give the listener access to a desired audio source via a radio microphone which the speaker either wears or holds. > > The transmitter and receiver, as a kit, cost over ?1100 Pounds Sterling. That, I would think, is way beyond the reach of most individuals, and I think it's absolutely outrageous that a company supposedly there to "help" the disabled is charging quite so much for its products. > > No; I'm not dumb! I understand fully that developers have to eat. I also understand that companies and developers have to make a reasonable profit on what they're selling. But that is outrageous. We're talking nothing but a transmitter/receiver here and nobody can convince me that a transmitter/receiver kit is going to cost anywhere close to that kind of money to develop. That, to me, is profiteering above and beyond the "reasonable" and I'm disgusted. I have already written to the company concerned to express my views. I don't for a second expect to receive a response; nor do I expect them to take notice of what I said. But I have at least made my views known. > > I think it's utterly wrong that those who are afflicted by what is a very debilitating disability should be victimised in that way, just because they can't take advantage of what the rest of us take for granted. > > Now I hope nobody will twist what I'm saying; but I think it's grossly unfair that companies are able to profit in that way in a market which, I accept, is a minority market. All the same, there should be some kind of dispensation for individuals struggling to buy that kind of equipment for their own use. > > Lynne > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- -- Dane Trethowan Sending email from his EEEPC Netbook ======================================= The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html Or: you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: --------------------------------------- ======================================= The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html Or: you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: --------------------------------------- From grtdane at internode.on.net Thu Sep 22 13:57:27 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2011 22:57:27 +1000 Subject: The Price of specialist equipment In-Reply-To: <0651092A-7429-4BEB-8917-D7DB55C82893@mac-access.net> References: <9B9E5BDB-8B75-4041-8B1B-396E0A8FB4D9@mac-access.net> <4E7B2940.80708@internode.on.net> <0651092A-7429-4BEB-8917-D7DB55C82893@mac-access.net> Message-ID: <4E7B30B7.7040200@internode.on.net> No cable comes out of the input shoes I use with mine, the shoes are mini digital FM transmitters themselves. No, bluetooth delay isn't usually a problem unless you listen to speech from a "source" as well as speech directly. With my system I have it programmed so say in a room my hearin instruments function as per normal - analysing the noise around me - whilst the sounds from the transmitter are mixed in with those so I get the best of both environments and its up to the brain to do the processing of sound. \ On 22/09/2011 10:52 PM, Gordon Smith wrote: > Hello Dane > > Actually I was wrong about Bluetooth. The equipment they sell is FM, as you describe. But there are a number of designs. Some of them work with an input she, some of them work by interfacing with the iCom which I bought for Gordon a while back. Actually he has 2 of them now, and that pay dividends. There's a device which gods with the iCom which I also bought him called a "TVLink. Perhaps a misleading name; because the device works with any audio source. > > Yes, there is a delay of a very short period but it isn't enough to cause Gordon problems. But the microphone transmitters are FM with digital coupling so I'm sorry I gave inaccurate information there. Some of them as I said use the iCom and some use an input shoe directly. But the problem with those which use the input shoe is cables. The reason we were looking at the iCom type is that they are cable-free apart from the lead between the iCom and the receiver. > > I think the problem with the shoe type is that there is a cable leading from the ear, which could get in the way. Also the iCom can, unless it's overridden when the Euro socket is in use, also be used with the phone at the same time. The iCom can be paired with up to 8 simultaneous devices if it has the latest, open firmware. Phonak has released their firmware source to outside developers which is interesting. > > Anyway, yes; I was slightly wrong about the transmitter. You're correct, they af FM rather than Blue Tooth. > > Lynne > > On 22 Sep 2011, at 13:25, Dane Trethowan wrote: > > I agree with all this though I have to say that Bluetooth would be the last platform I'd be using for this sort of thing because of the delays involved, now perhaps to be fair the developers of this ket you're talking about have found a way around the delay factor and perhaps that's where some of the cost comes in, this kit may use custom chips or something who knows but whether or not this is the case its still a nasty pain to the hip pocket. > > I have a system with my hearing instruments that uses some sort of FM transmitter/receiving system and its digitally encoded somehow so as to prevent static and I paid half the price you're quoting so I'm wondering if there's an alternative kit or model you can look at. > > The model I have connects directly to a connector at the back of the hearing instrument and is powered from there. > > If someone is wishing to speak to the wearing of the hearing instrument then they were the microphone with the FM transmitter round their neck and speak into this, the conversation is then transmitted directly to the hearing instrument. > > The transmitter can be programmed for multiple operations, for example you can ttransmit a line in source - say a tape recorder - to one receiver connected to the right ear whilst transmitting someone's speech or another source to the left ear and this sort of arrangement can be damn handy for those times when you need extra description for slides at a lecture etc. > > > > On 22/09/2011 10:02 PM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: >> Hello everybody >> >> At the risk of being accused of trying to put people down, I am going to raise one further subject because this is something that I find outrageous. >> >> I was just looking on a website here in the UK which is that of a company which sell equipment for the hearing impaired.. They sell a series of items designed for hearing aid users in an environment where it is difficult to hear the spoken content. For instance in a lecture room, meeting or similar where the desired audio source is either a considerable distance from the listener, or where the background noise makes it difficult for the listener to hear what's being said. >> >> These devices use Bluetooth to communicate with a receiver that's either at ear level or which interfaces with a hearing instrument to give the listener access to a desired audio source via a radio microphone which the speaker either wears or holds. >> >> The transmitter and receiver, as a kit, cost over ?1100 Pounds Sterling. That, I would think, is way beyond the reach of most individuals, and I think it's absolutely outrageous that a company supposedly there to "help" the disabled is charging quite so much for its products. >> >> No; I'm not dumb! I understand fully that developers have to eat. I also understand that companies and developers have to make a reasonable profit on what they're selling. But that is outrageous. We're talking nothing but a transmitter/receiver here and nobody can convince me that a transmitter/receiver kit is going to cost anywhere close to that kind of money to develop. That, to me, is profiteering above and beyond the "reasonable" and I'm disgusted. I have already written to the company concerned to express my views. I don't for a second expect to receive a response; nor do I expect them to take notice of what I said. But I have at least made my views known. >> >> I think it's utterly wrong that those who are afflicted by what is a very debilitating disability should be victimised in that way, just because they can't take advantage of what the rest of us take for granted. >> >> Now I hope nobody will twist what I'm saying; but I think it's grossly unfair that companies are able to profit in that way in a market which, I accept, is a minority market. All the same, there should be some kind of dispensation for individuals struggling to buy that kind of equipment for their own use. >> >> Lynne >> >> >> ======================================= >> >> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free >> >> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat >> >> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: >> >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html >> >> Or: >> >> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: >> >> >> --------------------------------------- -- Dane Trethowan Sending email from his EEEPC Netbook From lynne at mac-access.net Thu Sep 22 14:27:10 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2011 14:27:10 +0100 Subject: The Price of specialist equipment In-Reply-To: <4E7B30B7.7040200@internode.on.net> References: <9B9E5BDB-8B75-4041-8B1B-396E0A8FB4D9@mac-access.net> <4E7B2940.80708@internode.on.net> <0651092A-7429-4BEB-8917-D7DB55C82893@mac-access.net> <4E7B30B7.7040200@internode.on.net> Message-ID: Hello Dane On 22 Sep 2011, at 13:57, Dane Trethowan wrote: No cable comes out of the input shoes I use with mine, the shoes are mini digital FM transmitters themselves. Ah, maybe I've misunderstood that then. The transmitters you can use don't have to be Phonak, as long as it's compatible with what I believe to be the standard then you can use it. So if that's the case then I would imagine your system is similar to the ones available from Connevans. they may not be the only supplier; although I would imagine the prices are similar. The one I was looking at, the ZoomLink, has facilities for 2 aids and 3 microphones. So if you were in a meeting, each participant (up to 3) could each have a microphone around their neck and the user would be fine with all of them. Gordon has difficulty now in echo-prone environments and that was why I was looking at these devices. But I think we'll have to talk to our audiologist to see if there's any chance of getting him one on the NHS. I would doubt it, but we could try. We pay our taxes; and it's not like we're asking for a luxury item. We bought the iCom and TVLinks ourselves because I thought that the price of those were reasonable. But the transmitters, that's another story. Lynne No, bluetooth delay isn't usually a problem unless you listen to speech from a "source" as well as speech directly. With my system I have it programmed so say in a room my hearin instruments function as per normal - analysing the noise around me - whilst the sounds from the transmitter are mixed in with those so I get the best of both environments and its up to the brain to do the processing of sound. \ On 22/09/2011 10:52 PM, Gordon Smith wrote: > Hello Dane > > Actually I was wrong about Bluetooth. The equipment they sell is FM, as you describe. But there are a number of designs. Some of them work with an input she, some of them work by interfacing with the iCom which I bought for Gordon a while back. Actually he has 2 of them now, and that pay dividends. There's a device which gods with the iCom which I also bought him called a "TVLink. Perhaps a misleading name; because the device works with any audio source. > > Yes, there is a delay of a very short period but it isn't enough to cause Gordon problems. But the microphone transmitters are FM with digital coupling so I'm sorry I gave inaccurate information there. Some of them as I said use the iCom and some use an input shoe directly. But the problem with those which use the input shoe is cables. The reason we were looking at the iCom type is that they are cable-free apart from the lead between the iCom and the receiver. > > I think the problem with the shoe type is that there is a cable leading from the ear, which could get in the way. Also the iCom can, unless it's overridden when the Euro socket is in use, also be used with the phone at the same time. The iCom can be paired with up to 8 simultaneous devices if it has the latest, open firmware. Phonak has released their firmware source to outside developers which is interesting. > > Anyway, yes; I was slightly wrong about the transmitter. You're correct, they af FM rather than Blue Tooth. > > Lynne > > On 22 Sep 2011, at 13:25, Dane Trethowan wrote: > > I agree with all this though I have to say that Bluetooth would be the last platform I'd be using for this sort of thing because of the delays involved, now perhaps to be fair the developers of this ket you're talking about have found a way around the delay factor and perhaps that's where some of the cost comes in, this kit may use custom chips or something who knows but whether or not this is the case its still a nasty pain to the hip pocket. > > I have a system with my hearing instruments that uses some sort of FM transmitter/receiving system and its digitally encoded somehow so as to prevent static and I paid half the price you're quoting so I'm wondering if there's an alternative kit or model you can look at. > > The model I have connects directly to a connector at the back of the hearing instrument and is powered from there. > > If someone is wishing to speak to the wearing of the hearing instrument then they were the microphone with the FM transmitter round their neck and speak into this, the conversation is then transmitted directly to the hearing instrument. > > The transmitter can be programmed for multiple operations, for example you can ttransmit a line in source - say a tape recorder - to one receiver connected to the right ear whilst transmitting someone's speech or another source to the left ear and this sort of arrangement can be damn handy for those times when you need extra description for slides at a lecture etc. > > > > On 22/09/2011 10:02 PM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: >> Hello everybody >> >> At the risk of being accused of trying to put people down, I am going to raise one further subject because this is something that I find outrageous. >> >> I was just looking on a website here in the UK which is that of a company which sell equipment for the hearing impaired.. They sell a series of items designed for hearing aid users in an environment where it is difficult to hear the spoken content. For instance in a lecture room, meeting or similar where the desired audio source is either a considerable distance from the listener, or where the background noise makes it difficult for the listener to hear what's being said. >> >> These devices use Bluetooth to communicate with a receiver that's either at ear level or which interfaces with a hearing instrument to give the listener access to a desired audio source via a radio microphone which the speaker either wears or holds. >> >> The transmitter and receiver, as a kit, cost over ?1100 Pounds Sterling. That, I would think, is way beyond the reach of most individuals, and I think it's absolutely outrageous that a company supposedly there to "help" the disabled is charging quite so much for its products. >> >> No; I'm not dumb! I understand fully that developers have to eat. I also understand that companies and developers have to make a reasonable profit on what they're selling. But that is outrageous. We're talking nothing but a transmitter/receiver here and nobody can convince me that a transmitter/receiver kit is going to cost anywhere close to that kind of money to develop. That, to me, is profiteering above and beyond the "reasonable" and I'm disgusted. I have already written to the company concerned to express my views. I don't for a second expect to receive a response; nor do I expect them to take notice of what I said. But I have at least made my views known. >> >> I think it's utterly wrong that those who are afflicted by what is a very debilitating disability should be victimised in that way, just because they can't take advantage of what the rest of us take for granted. >> >> Now I hope nobody will twist what I'm saying; but I think it's grossly unfair that companies are able to profit in that way in a market which, I accept, is a minority market. All the same, there should be some kind of dispensation for individuals struggling to buy that kind of equipment for their own use. >> >> Lynne >> >> >> ======================================= >> >> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free >> >> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat >> >> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: >> >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html >> >> Or: >> >> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: >> >> >> --------------------------------------- -- Dane Trethowan Sending email from his EEEPC Netbook ======================================= The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html Or: you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: --------------------------------------- From grtdane at internode.on.net Thu Sep 22 14:31:17 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2011 23:31:17 +1000 Subject: The Price of specialist equipment In-Reply-To: References: <9B9E5BDB-8B75-4041-8B1B-396E0A8FB4D9@mac-access.net> <4E7B2940.80708@internode.on.net> <0651092A-7429-4BEB-8917-D7DB55C82893@mac-access.net> <4E7B30B7.7040200@internode.on.net> Message-ID: <4E7B38A5.3020007@internode.on.net> I don't know whether multiple microphones can be part of my system but I'll investigate that though I really don't need them for my situation I can certainly appreciate as to why Gordon would find them helpful. Here's another tip, try connecting the Zoom H1 to the line in of your system when next at a meeting, you may find that this simple measure and the H!'S very good microphones may make all the difference. On 22/09/2011 11:27 PM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: > Hello Dane > > On 22 Sep 2011, at 13:57, Dane Trethowan wrote: > > No cable comes out of the input shoes I use with mine, the shoes are mini digital FM transmitters themselves. > > Ah, maybe I've misunderstood that then. The transmitters you can use don't have to be Phonak, as long as it's compatible with what I believe to be the standard then you can use it. So if that's the case then I would imagine your system is similar to the ones available from Connevans. they may not be the only supplier; although I would imagine the prices are similar. The one I was looking at, the ZoomLink, has facilities for 2 aids and 3 microphones. So if you were in a meeting, each participant (up to 3) could each have a microphone around their neck and the user would be fine with all of them. Gordon has difficulty now in echo-prone environments and that was why I was looking at these devices. But I think we'll have to talk to our audiologist to see if there's any chance of getting him one on the NHS. I would doubt it, but we could try. We pay our taxes; and it's not like we're asking for a luxury item. We bought the iCom and TVLinks ourselves because I thought that the price of those were reasonable. But the transmitters, that's another story. > > Lynne > > No, bluetooth delay isn't usually a problem unless you listen to speech from a "source" as well as speech directly. With my system I have it programmed so say in a room my hearin instruments function as per normal - analysing the noise around me - whilst the sounds from the transmitter are mixed in with those so I get the best of both environments and its up to the brain to do the processing of sound. > > \ > > On 22/09/2011 10:52 PM, Gordon Smith wrote: >> Hello Dane >> >> Actually I was wrong about Bluetooth. The equipment they sell is FM, as you describe. But there are a number of designs. Some of them work with an input she, some of them work by interfacing with the iCom which I bought for Gordon a while back. Actually he has 2 of them now, and that pay dividends. There's a device which gods with the iCom which I also bought him called a "TVLink. Perhaps a misleading name; because the device works with any audio source. >> >> Yes, there is a delay of a very short period but it isn't enough to cause Gordon problems. But the microphone transmitters are FM with digital coupling so I'm sorry I gave inaccurate information there. Some of them as I said use the iCom and some use an input shoe directly. But the problem with those which use the input shoe is cables. The reason we were looking at the iCom type is that they are cable-free apart from the lead between the iCom and the receiver. >> >> I think the problem with the shoe type is that there is a cable leading from the ear, which could get in the way. Also the iCom can, unless it's overridden when the Euro socket is in use, also be used with the phone at the same time. The iCom can be paired with up to 8 simultaneous devices if it has the latest, open firmware. Phonak has released their firmware source to outside developers which is interesting. >> >> Anyway, yes; I was slightly wrong about the transmitter. You're correct, they af FM rather than Blue Tooth. >> >> Lynne >> >> On 22 Sep 2011, at 13:25, Dane Trethowan wrote: >> >> I agree with all this though I have to say that Bluetooth would be the last platform I'd be using for this sort of thing because of the delays involved, now perhaps to be fair the developers of this ket you're talking about have found a way around the delay factor and perhaps that's where some of the cost comes in, this kit may use custom chips or something who knows but whether or not this is the case its still a nasty pain to the hip pocket. >> >> I have a system with my hearing instruments that uses some sort of FM transmitter/receiving system and its digitally encoded somehow so as to prevent static and I paid half the price you're quoting so I'm wondering if there's an alternative kit or model you can look at. >> >> The model I have connects directly to a connector at the back of the hearing instrument and is powered from there. >> >> If someone is wishing to speak to the wearing of the hearing instrument then they were the microphone with the FM transmitter round their neck and speak into this, the conversation is then transmitted directly to the hearing instrument. >> >> The transmitter can be programmed for multiple operations, for example you can ttransmit a line in source - say a tape recorder - to one receiver connected to the right ear whilst transmitting someone's speech or another source to the left ear and this sort of arrangement can be damn handy for those times when you need extra description for slides at a lecture etc. >> >> >> >> On 22/09/2011 10:02 PM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: >>> Hello everybody >>> >>> At the risk of being accused of trying to put people down, I am going to raise one further subject because this is something that I find outrageous. >>> >>> I was just looking on a website here in the UK which is that of a company which sell equipment for the hearing impaired.. They sell a series of items designed for hearing aid users in an environment where it is difficult to hear the spoken content. For instance in a lecture room, meeting or similar where the desired audio source is either a considerable distance from the listener, or where the background noise makes it difficult for the listener to hear what's being said. >>> >>> These devices use Bluetooth to communicate with a receiver that's either at ear level or which interfaces with a hearing instrument to give the listener access to a desired audio source via a radio microphone which the speaker either wears or holds. >>> >>> The transmitter and receiver, as a kit, cost over ?1100 Pounds Sterling. That, I would think, is way beyond the reach of most individuals, and I think it's absolutely outrageous that a company supposedly there to "help" the disabled is charging quite so much for its products. >>> >>> No; I'm not dumb! I understand fully that developers have to eat. I also understand that companies and developers have to make a reasonable profit on what they're selling. But that is outrageous. We're talking nothing but a transmitter/receiver here and nobody can convince me that a transmitter/receiver kit is going to cost anywhere close to that kind of money to develop. That, to me, is profiteering above and beyond the "reasonable" and I'm disgusted. I have already written to the company concerned to express my views. I don't for a second expect to receive a response; nor do I expect them to take notice of what I said. But I have at least made my views known. >>> >>> I think it's utterly wrong that those who are afflicted by what is a very debilitating disability should be victimised in that way, just because they can't take advantage of what the rest of us take for granted. >>> >>> Now I hope nobody will twist what I'm saying; but I think it's grossly unfair that companies are able to profit in that way in a market which, I accept, is a minority market. All the same, there should be some kind of dispensation for individuals struggling to buy that kind of equipment for their own use. >>> >>> Lynne >>> >>> >>> ======================================= >>> >>> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free >>> >>> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at >>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat >>> >>> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: >>> >>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html >>> >>> Or: >>> >>> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: >>> >>> >>> --------------------------------------- -- Dane Trethowan Sending email from his EEEPC Netbook From moore.c at blueyonder.co.uk Thu Sep 22 14:36:07 2011 From: moore.c at blueyonder.co.uk (Chris Moore) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2011 14:36:07 +0100 Subject: Android In-Reply-To: <7E91ACEA-38F3-458D-AFB3-A9FB31063E90@mac-access.net> References: <85870E5D-0D15-4E4B-B613-F7C4E40D0059@mac-access.net> <4E7A8525.1020800@internode.on.net> <7E91ACEA-38F3-458D-AFB3-A9FB31063E90@mac-access.net> Message-ID: Android is too fragmented in my opinion. Too many different versions of the OS out there in the wild. Google don't vet apps before releasing them onto the various app stores leaving them open to viruses and spyware. Google is far inferior when it comes to accessibility compared to the iPhone also. However, I quite like the fact that some Android devices have physical keyboards and have the ability to insert mini SD cards. Android is great if you are a geek and want to play and pull the phone and it's OS apart to configure it to your own taste. I can see the Linux heads going for this. iPhone is the perfect bet if you just want something that works, end of. The iPhone 2G and iPhone 3G (not 3GS) had a superior microphone. The microphone in the 3GS and iPhone 4 are very compressed. However the audio listening quality from the headphone socket is improved in the iPhone 4, but still not as good as a standard iPod. I agree for signal quality Nokia is probably one of the best (depending on which model you compare it to though) but I don't think the iPhone is far behind. Look how many phones Nokia has produced in the last 20+ years to reach that goal, Apple have only produced 5 if you include the CDMA version. That is pretty good going in my book. Chris On 22 Sep 2011, at 10:51, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: > Hello Dane > > This was never meant to be a "My toy's better than yours" argument so I'm glad you added the horses for courses bit. I did try my best to make it clear that I was referring to one particular device, not the overall interface which I know that people are using successfully. > > I have not, and have no intention of in the short term, checked out accessibility; which I have no motivation to do since we don't plan to buy one. But I have no problem with what you're saying and if it's true that there is accessibility then that is really great. I did not even look at accessibility when playing with this device. For one thing I didn't have the time or opportunity. For another it wasn't my device so I didn't want to start installing external applications. > > Technology, although I grant you that accessibility is a huge factor and for most people in this group is an essential, isn't the only consideration. This specific devices interface was, it seemed to both myself and its owner, flawed in many respects and I think the owner of this specific device is parting with it and sending it back whence it came. > > Now, I feel it's necessary to point out a couple of things per your message. The iPhone: You talk about its audio not being good. I'm bound to point out here Dane that, in all fairness, you have admitted yourself many times on this and other groups that your own hearing isn't the best. I regret that. But I'm pointing out here that it may be that the Nokia's audio attributes just happened to suit your own conditions better than did the iPhone. That's fine, I have no problem with that. But what I'm saying is that it may not be a basis, overall, to judge the quality of the iPhone's audio which, in my experience, is actually very good. > > You talk about the iPhone's connectivity and its range. Well I'm not sure why you've had problems like that; but I'm not deputing what you are saying. It may be that in your own circumstances, the iPhone didn't work well for you. That's fair enough; it's horses for courses as you rightly say. However, in our case, the iPhone will, for example, connect to a headset when the iPhone is downstairs and we are upstairs. According to the Bluetooth 2.0 specification, the range is supposed to be about 10 meters, (33 feet). We are actually seeing performance over and above that range with most devices we use; including the iPhone 3GS. > > Again, I am not, (and I can't stress this strongly enough because such "discussions" often seem to degenerate in to the usual and, I have to say, tedious "my toy's better than yours" dispute), doubting what you're saying or knocking anybody else's word. I'm simply speaking from experience as, I presume, are you. > > AS for your talk about engineers working for mobile phone companies, well; possibly they see things from different perspectives. But again, I'm not knocking or doubting what he's apparently said. I'm simply speaking from personal experience. > > We have used, and still do use a Jawbone Jambox in conjunction with our iPhone and iPad with amazing results. Connectivity is excellent in both cases; we can leave the iPad downstairs and take the Jambox upstairs with no degradation in signal or quality of audio which, from the Jambox, is superb. Gordon is going to produce his own podcast on the Jambox when he's able. he will demonstrate how it can be used as a music player and as a speaker phone for any bluetooth compatible mobile or cordless phone. > > But getting back to the original topic which I raised, I have a curiosity, I have to admit, about the Smsung Galaxy; of which I have heard good things. So I plan to make it my business to have a play with one at the earliest opportunity. I'll then be able to judge for myself which device I prefer. "Better", in this context, is a very subjective term. Dane talks about which device is "better" in terms of audio connectivity and performance. That is down to individual taste and requirements. So let me just sum up by saying that what I have seen so far of Android doesn't do much to impress me. I've seen 2 devices; although it wouldn't be fair to judge by the first because it was some time ago and that device is no longer on sale. But the second device is a new Motorola model and it was clunky and prone to crashes. That device has, I assume, a fairly recent version of Android installed, although again it could be down to implementation. It was new out of the box yesterday and I th > ink will be back in its box by now as the owner planned to get shot of it. > > But that does not mean that the platform as a whole is useless; nor do I intend to suggest such. Nor, contrary to what some appear to believe, do I mean to suggest that Apple is the only way to go. Actually there are several things we don't like about iOS4 which, I'm glad to say, are up for improvement shortly. But I think one would be somewhat churlish not to look at alternatives if one was looking for a new device. As it happens, we are not looking for that at the moment and certainly won't be until the pending release of both iPhone 5 and iOS 5. That way we can judge for ourselves which is the best way to go. > > Our iPhone 3GS which has served us well over the last couple of years, is becoming a bit battered now and may be up for replacement soon. So we'll see which way we opt to go. But the one thing Apple does have on their side is that accessibility is in-built. I think that, if other developers are charging high prices for their accessibility tools, that too might push us into continuing with Apple. But that said the iPhone isn't exactly cheap, so we'll see. > > OK, enough waffle; I'm off to listen to some music on our Jambox while catching up with some admin. The audio quality that comes out of that device has to be heard to be believed. > > Lynne > > > On 22 Sep 2011, at 01:45, Dane Trethowan wrote: > > If anyone's interested in the Android system and how accessible it is with speech then I certainly recommend the excellent series on Android devices and accessibility found at > > I also recommend looking at the Access Word publication which has reviews of various Android products with speech, sorry I don't have a link handy . > > Code Factory also make products to help blind and visually impaired people get the most out of their android devices. > > And my view? Well I know blind people who who use Samsung Galaxy II Android devices and I've not heard them report any trouble, one of the people I know is a Mobile engineer for one of the big mobile carriers in Australia so he'd know what he was talking about. > > He swithced from Iphone 4 to the Galaxy II because of "performance" issues mainly, as a phone he found the Galaxy II out performs the Iphone 4 though this didn't come as any particular surprise to me, I remember when I had an Iphone and used it regularly, I also found when it came to a "Phone" my Nokia N85 gave superior audio quality, better connection and better range and so forth. > > I guess what I'm saying here that its "Horses For Courses" ahd when deciding on a device which is right for you do your research and take into consideration more than one opinion, particularly if you have concerns with accessibility. > > And as a final note yep, there are things I like about the Iphone and its main sstrengths in my view are the Apps, literally hundreds of thousands of accessible apps are available and this still is a problem for the Android platform, firstly you needed sighted asistance it would seem to even access the Android "Market Place" to install apps. As has been noted, there are many different variants of Android floating about including one which is being developped specifically for those who need accessibility so perhaps the problems with the "Market Place" will change in the not to distant future, we'll wait and see. > > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- From mstores at indiana.edu Thu Sep 22 14:45:56 2011 From: mstores at indiana.edu (Mary Stores) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2011 09:45:56 -0400 Subject: The Price of specialist equipment In-Reply-To: <9B9E5BDB-8B75-4041-8B1B-396E0A8FB4D9@mac-access.net> References: <9B9E5BDB-8B75-4041-8B1B-396E0A8FB4D9@mac-access.net> Message-ID: <20110922094556.l2ob7osasg8gwc4s@webmail.iu.edu> Hi Lynne, Does the UK have a Voc Rehab equivaleent there? One of the reasons why people say companies like GW Micro and FS and charge so much is because our government is willing to pay for it. It is good that you express your views instead of just leaving it up to someone else who might care. Mary Quoting "Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith" : > Hello everybody > > At the risk of being accused of trying to put people down, I am going > to raise one further subject because this is something that I find > outrageous. > > I was just looking on a website here in the UK which is that of a > company which sell equipment for the hearing impaired. > . They sell a series of items designed > for hearing aid users in an environment where it is difficult to hear > the spoken content. For instance in a lecture room, meeting or > similar where the desired audio source is either a considerable > distance from the listener, or where the background noise makes it > difficult for the listener to hear what's being said. > > These devices use Bluetooth to communicate with a receiver that's > either at ear level or which interfaces with a hearing instrument to > give the listener access to a desired audio source via a radio > microphone which the speaker either wears or holds. > > The transmitter and receiver, as a kit, cost over ?1100 Pounds > Sterling. That, I would think, is way beyond the reach of most > individuals, and I think it's absolutely outrageous that a company > supposedly there to "help" the disabled is charging quite so much for > its products. > > No; I'm not dumb! I understand fully that developers have to eat. I > also understand that companies and developers have to make a > reasonable profit on what they're selling. But that is outrageous. > We're talking nothing but a transmitter/receiver here and nobody can > convince me that a transmitter/receiver kit is going to cost anywhere > close to that kind of money to develop. That, to me, is profiteering > above and beyond the "reasonable" and I'm disgusted. I have already > written to the company concerned to express my views. I don't for a > second expect to receive a response; nor do I expect them to take > notice of what I said. But I have at least made my views known. > > I think it's utterly wrong that those who are afflicted by what is a > very debilitating disability should be victimised in that way, just > because they can't take advantage of what the rest of us take for > granted. > From moore.c at blueyonder.co.uk Thu Sep 22 14:50:16 2011 From: moore.c at blueyonder.co.uk (Chris Moore) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2011 14:50:16 +0100 Subject: The Price of specialist equipment In-Reply-To: <20110922094556.l2ob7osasg8gwc4s@webmail.iu.edu> References: <9B9E5BDB-8B75-4041-8B1B-396E0A8FB4D9@mac-access.net> <20110922094556.l2ob7osasg8gwc4s@webmail.iu.edu> Message-ID: <261C6806-3D3C-49D7-A06B-9DF19CE09B46@blueyonder.co.uk> Lynne, You should be able to get something from the NHS, or failing that, could access to work not help? Find out if Gordon's hearing aids would work with the Smart Link by Phonak. If they do, then you can have mine. I never use it now and have not done so for about 4 years. The device is FM and is worn around the neck and it also supports Bluetooth, but the firmware may need to be updated. Chris On 22 Sep 2011, at 14:45, Mary Stores wrote: > Hi Lynne, > > Does the UK have a Voc Rehab equivaleent there? One of the reasons why people say companies like GW Micro and FS and charge so much is because our government is willing to pay for it. > > It is good that you express your views instead of just leaving it up to someone else who might care. > > Mary > > Quoting "Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith" : > >> Hello everybody >> >> At the risk of being accused of trying to put people down, I am going >> to raise one further subject because this is something that I find >> outrageous. >> >> I was just looking on a website here in the UK which is that of a >> company which sell equipment for the hearing impaired. >> . They sell a series of items designed >> for hearing aid users in an environment where it is difficult to hear >> the spoken content. For instance in a lecture room, meeting or >> similar where the desired audio source is either a considerable >> distance from the listener, or where the background noise makes it >> difficult for the listener to hear what's being said. >> >> These devices use Bluetooth to communicate with a receiver that's >> either at ear level or which interfaces with a hearing instrument to >> give the listener access to a desired audio source via a radio >> microphone which the speaker either wears or holds. >> >> The transmitter and receiver, as a kit, cost over ?1100 Pounds >> Sterling. That, I would think, is way beyond the reach of most >> individuals, and I think it's absolutely outrageous that a company >> supposedly there to "help" the disabled is charging quite so much for >> its products. >> >> No; I'm not dumb! I understand fully that developers have to eat. I >> also understand that companies and developers have to make a >> reasonable profit on what they're selling. But that is outrageous. >> We're talking nothing but a transmitter/receiver here and nobody can >> convince me that a transmitter/receiver kit is going to cost anywhere >> close to that kind of money to develop. That, to me, is profiteering >> above and beyond the "reasonable" and I'm disgusted. I have already >> written to the company concerned to express my views. I don't for a >> second expect to receive a response; nor do I expect them to take >> notice of what I said. But I have at least made my views known. >> >> I think it's utterly wrong that those who are afflicted by what is a >> very debilitating disability should be victimised in that way, just >> because they can't take advantage of what the rest of us take for >> granted. >> > > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- From lynne at mac-access.net Thu Sep 22 15:04:22 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2011 15:04:22 +0100 Subject: The Price of specialist equipment In-Reply-To: <4E7B38A5.3020007@internode.on.net> References: <9B9E5BDB-8B75-4041-8B1B-396E0A8FB4D9@mac-access.net> <4E7B2940.80708@internode.on.net> <0651092A-7429-4BEB-8917-D7DB55C82893@mac-access.net> <4E7B30B7.7040200@internode.on.net> <4E7B38A5.3020007@internode.on.net> Message-ID: <2C4BE0F7-1819-4C4D-B458-F7BC0A38822D@mac-access.net> Hello Chris\ On 22 Sep 2011, at 14:31, Dane Trethowan wrote: I don't know whether multiple microphones can be part of my system but I'll investigate that though I really don't need them for my situation I can certainly appreciate as to why Gordon would find them helpful. Yes, the zoom link allows you use use 3 microphones at the same time and 2 aids each with different configurations. Here's another tip, try connecting the Zoom H1 to the line in of your system when next at a meeting, you may find that this simple measure and the H!'S very good microphones may make all the difference. That's something we've tried actually, and yes; it work to a point. But as Dane has already pointed out there is a delay in the audio. Lynne From grtdane at internode.on.net Thu Sep 22 15:09:49 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2011 00:09:49 +1000 Subject: The Price of specialist equipment In-Reply-To: <20110922094556.l2ob7osasg8gwc4s@webmail.iu.edu> References: <9B9E5BDB-8B75-4041-8B1B-396E0A8FB4D9@mac-access.net> <20110922094556.l2ob7osasg8gwc4s@webmail.iu.edu> Message-ID: <4E7B41AD.3070301@internode.on.net> Interesting you should mention this sort of scheme. I wodner if the "National Disability Insurance" scheme our Government are planning to put into place is similar to the one you're referring to in your country Mary. Under our scheme a 1.5% lebby will be applied to all tax payers and even pensioners as well as I understand it, the scheme will enable those with a disability to get the adaptive equipment they require, pay for care and so forth so when the scheme is introduced I can't help wondering whether the price of adaptive and specialist equipment/software will rise. On 22/09/2011 11:45 PM, Mary Stores wrote: > Hi Lynne, > > Does the UK have a Voc Rehab equivaleent there? One of the reasons why > people say companies like GW Micro and FS and charge so much is > because our government is willing to pay for it. > > It is good that you express your views instead of just leaving it up > to someone else who might care. > > Mary > > Quoting "Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith" : > >> Hello everybody >> >> At the risk of being accused of trying to put people down, I am going >> to raise one further subject because this is something that I find >> outrageous. >> >> I was just looking on a website here in the UK which is that of a >> company which sell equipment for the hearing impaired. >> . They sell a series of items designed >> for hearing aid users in an environment where it is difficult to hear >> the spoken content. For instance in a lecture room, meeting or >> similar where the desired audio source is either a considerable >> distance from the listener, or where the background noise makes it >> difficult for the listener to hear what's being said. >> >> These devices use Bluetooth to communicate with a receiver that's >> either at ear level or which interfaces with a hearing instrument to >> give the listener access to a desired audio source via a radio >> microphone which the speaker either wears or holds. >> >> The transmitter and receiver, as a kit, cost over ?1100 Pounds >> Sterling. That, I would think, is way beyond the reach of most >> individuals, and I think it's absolutely outrageous that a company >> supposedly there to "help" the disabled is charging quite so much for >> its products. >> >> No; I'm not dumb! I understand fully that developers have to eat. I >> also understand that companies and developers have to make a >> reasonable profit on what they're selling. But that is outrageous. >> We're talking nothing but a transmitter/receiver here and nobody can >> convince me that a transmitter/receiver kit is going to cost anywhere >> close to that kind of money to develop. That, to me, is profiteering >> above and beyond the "reasonable" and I'm disgusted. I have already >> written to the company concerned to express my views. I don't for a >> second expect to receive a response; nor do I expect them to take >> notice of what I said. But I have at least made my views known. >> >> I think it's utterly wrong that those who are afflicted by what is a >> very debilitating disability should be victimised in that way, just >> because they can't take advantage of what the rest of us take for >> granted. >> > > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, > virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's > dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat > group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- -- Dane Trethowan Sending email from his EEEPC Netbook From moore.c at blueyonder.co.uk Thu Sep 22 15:12:13 2011 From: moore.c at blueyonder.co.uk (Chris Moore) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2011 15:12:13 +0100 Subject: The Price of specialist equipment In-Reply-To: <2C4BE0F7-1819-4C4D-B458-F7BC0A38822D@mac-access.net> References: <9B9E5BDB-8B75-4041-8B1B-396E0A8FB4D9@mac-access.net> <4E7B2940.80708@internode.on.net> <0651092A-7429-4BEB-8917-D7DB55C82893@mac-access.net> <4E7B30B7.7040200@internode.on.net> <4E7B38A5.3020007@internode.on.net> <2C4BE0F7-1819-4C4D-B458-F7BC0A38822D@mac-access.net> Message-ID: <9B63D0D3-7E86-4AC3-87E0-9AC246846464@blueyonder.co.uk> I am talking about the SmartLink and not the ZoomLink. The SmartLink is worn around the neck or can be placed on the table. It has 3 different microphone settings for the internal mic and also allows external microphones to be plugged in. I am not sure if it would need to be set to work with your FM receiver by an audiologist though. You would need to purchase the receiver part, but I think this is cheaper than the SmartLink transmitter which I have and you are welcome to if Gordon's hearing aid supports it. Check with your audiologist, if they know you are supplying the transmitter they will probably supply the FM receiver shoe to fit Gordon's aid. Chris On 22 Sep 2011, at 15:04, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: > Hello Chris\ > On 22 Sep 2011, at 14:31, Dane Trethowan wrote: > > I don't know whether multiple microphones can be part of my system but I'll investigate that though I really don't need them for my situation I can certainly appreciate as to why Gordon would find them helpful. > > Yes, the zoom link allows you use use 3 microphones at the same time and 2 aids each with different configurations. > > Here's another tip, try connecting the Zoom H1 to the line in of your system when next at a meeting, you may find that this simple measure and the H!'S very good microphones may make all the difference. > > That's something we've tried actually, and yes; it work to a point. But as Dane has already pointed out there is a delay in the audio. > > Lynne > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- From grtdane at internode.on.net Thu Sep 22 15:16:15 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2011 00:16:15 +1000 Subject: Olympus Voice Recorders Message-ID: <4E7B432F.6080505@internode.on.net> Hurray! we now have a store that stocks these recorders, the full range so I'm going to have a look at at a few next week, may consider the purchase of 1. The Zoom H1 is a damn nice recorder but I have to admit the ability to organise files and folders whilst on the road so to speak would be handy. The Olympus recorders also have better auto gain controls as I understand it and they will also quite happily handle multiple formats for playback including MP3 files, I think one model even handles Daisy material. The model our store is advertising has 4GB of internal memory as well as a micro SD slot. My Iriver 320 device is finally proving to be too costly to repair so the Olympus should replace this rather nicely and I'm not complaining as the Iriver hard drive has been recording and playing audio nicely for the last 6 years. -- Dane Trethowan Sending email from his EEEPC Netbook From lynne at mac-access.net Thu Sep 22 15:30:20 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2011 15:30:20 +0100 Subject: Android In-Reply-To: References: <85870E5D-0D15-4E4B-B613-F7C4E40D0059@mac-access.net> <4E7A8525.1020800@internode.on.net> <7E91ACEA-38F3-458D-AFB3-A9FB31063E90@mac-access.net> Message-ID: <1B1A6065-3EBD-412C-8A29-7860A92CBBFE@mac-access.net> Hello Chris This was precisely the point I tried, seemingly unsuccessfully, to make in my original post which was taken way out of context. I had problems when playing with the Motorola phone and it put me off, although I'm still willing to look elsewhere. I agree with you about the fragmentation, and it seems that is set to continue. I'll say it once more time; I am not, was not and will not try and put anybody down. Nor am I condemning unilaterally without first trying. I will check out accessibility options as well; but at the moment I am not exactly over-enthusiastic. So I guess it's going to be a case of carefully selecting your device, then carefully selecting your accessibility tool where required then carefully selecting your apps, carefully selecting your provider; all a bit too much of a hassle at the moment it would seem. I don't get these problems with iPhone and it just works. I personally don't want to spend hours classing around trying to find things that will allow me to do the basics. Again I don't dispute that there are good out there as well as the not so good in the Android market. But although I'm interested, and I will still look at at the various devices, at the moment I'm not particularly optimistic. I don't dispute that there are better internal speakers in other models. Neither do I dispute that there are some things in iPhone which could be better. Neither do I dispute that, for other reasons, iPhone users in Australia got a raw deal because of the low volume which I fully accept was a problem for the hearing impaired. However, I remember a while back Gordon bought an iRiver, on the pretext of running something called Rockbox. Well; we did get it installed into the H10, but found it extremely limited in capability because of the speech it used. A lot of things were spelled out, rather than spoken in words and we both found that a pain in the proverbial. So that was one example of a tool which although I could used it, Gordon found slow going and he soon lost patience. We still have the H10 actually and it's sitting in a little case somewhere doing sweet fanny adams. I certainly have no intention of repeating that kind of purchase based on a clunky operating system which isn't going to provide reliable usability without tweaking and poking. That's how I see Android at the moment; based purely upon what I've seen. I saw an Android device when they first hit the streets. I saw one yesterday and, whilst I wouldn't deny there is improvement, it was, as I've said lots of times today, clunky. It crashed on me 3 times within half an hour and the friend who bought the thing yesterday has now taken it back whence it came for a refund. She's not a computer user outside of her work and she didn't want something that she had to keep fooling around with to just get working. The sales person who sold her it apparently told her a pack of lies about how good a device it was. Anyway, in summary; Android may be alright for some. But based on what I saw yesterday it isn't for us. As I have said repeatedly I'll have a look at the other devices; I wouldn't want to rule it out totally without checking. But if yesterday's performance was anything to go by, they can keep it as far as I'm concerned, at least for the foreseeable future and, despite all of the known issues, we'll see what comes in iPhone 5. Lynne On 22 Sep 2011, at 14:36, Chris Moore wrote: Android is too fragmented in my opinion. Too many different versions of the OS out there in the wild. Google don't vet apps before releasing them onto the various app stores leaving them open to viruses and spyware. Google is far inferior when it comes to accessibility compared to the iPhone also. However, I quite like the fact that some Android devices have physical keyboards and have the ability to insert mini SD cards. Android is great if you are a geek and want to play and pull the phone and it's OS apart to configure it to your own taste. I can see the Linux heads going for this. iPhone is the perfect bet if you just want something that works, end of. The iPhone 2G and iPhone 3G (not 3GS) had a superior microphone. The microphone in the 3GS and iPhone 4 are very compressed. However the audio listening quality from the headphone socket is improved in the iPhone 4, but still not as good as a standard iPod. I agree for signal quality Nokia is probably one of the best (depending on which model you compare it to though) but I don't think the iPhone is far behind. Look how many phones Nokia has produced in the last 20+ years to reach that goal, Apple have only produced 5 if you include the CDMA version. That is pretty good going in my book. From lynne at mac-access.net Thu Sep 22 15:37:04 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2011 15:37:04 +0100 Subject: The Price of specialist equipment In-Reply-To: <20110922094556.l2ob7osasg8gwc4s@webmail.iu.edu> References: <9B9E5BDB-8B75-4041-8B1B-396E0A8FB4D9@mac-access.net> <20110922094556.l2ob7osasg8gwc4s@webmail.iu.edu> Message-ID: <883645C0-ADD3-445A-80B8-A7B7F0B3BBE9@mac-access.net> hello Mary On 22 Sep 2011, at 14:45, Mary Stores wrote: Over here, it's a bit of a postcode lottery, (zip code as you'd call it). Some people can get high tech equipment like this on the NHS through their audiologist etc., but not everywhere and not where we live. I totally agree about the government over there being willing to pay such a high price; and because of that, we all suffer. Our government isn't so generous and in fact, unless you're employed there is no means of assistance, as far as I am ware. I expressed my views but don't expect a response. ?1200.00 GBP is outside of our range at the moment; much as I'd love to do that for Gordo. We just have too many bills and too much important outlay to make to make that possible. I will write you off list in a minute Mary because there's something I want to make you aware of and something I want to ask you. Lynne Does the UK have a Voc Rehab equivaleent there? One of the reasons why people say companies like GW Micro and FS and charge so much is because our government is willing to pay for it. It is good that you express your views instead of just leaving it up to someone else who might care. Mary Quoting "Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith" : > Hello everybody > > At the risk of being accused of trying to put people down, I am going > to raise one further subject because this is something that I find > outrageous. > > I was just looking on a website here in the UK which is that of a > company which sell equipment for the hearing impaired. > . They sell a series of items designed > for hearing aid users in an environment where it is difficult to hear > the spoken content. For instance in a lecture room, meeting or > similar where the desired audio source is either a considerable > distance from the listener, or where the background noise makes it > difficult for the listener to hear what's being said. > > These devices use Bluetooth to communicate with a receiver that's > either at ear level or which interfaces with a hearing instrument to > give the listener access to a desired audio source via a radio > microphone which the speaker either wears or holds. > > The transmitter and receiver, as a kit, cost over ?1100 Pounds > Sterling. That, I would think, is way beyond the reach of most > individuals, and I think it's absolutely outrageous that a company > supposedly there to "help" the disabled is charging quite so much for > its products. > > No; I'm not dumb! I understand fully that developers have to eat. I > also understand that companies and developers have to make a > reasonable profit on what they're selling. But that is outrageous. > We're talking nothing but a transmitter/receiver here and nobody can > convince me that a transmitter/receiver kit is going to cost anywhere > close to that kind of money to develop. That, to me, is profiteering > above and beyond the "reasonable" and I'm disgusted. I have already > written to the company concerned to express my views. I don't for a > second expect to receive a response; nor do I expect them to take > notice of what I said. But I have at least made my views known. > > I think it's utterly wrong that those who are afflicted by what is a > very debilitating disability should be victimised in that way, just > because they can't take advantage of what the rest of us take for > granted. > ======================================= The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html Or: you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: --------------------------------------- From grtdane at internode.on.net Thu Sep 22 19:36:57 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane trethowan) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2011 04:36:57 +1000 Subject: Vipre anti Virus premium subscription Message-ID: <4E7B8049.2090802@internode.on.net> Hi! Seems I'll be using vipre anti Virus Premium for quite some time given the benefits of a subscription to this product, one of which is the weekly Vipre Security News, an example of which can be found at , this is the most current edition. This weekly gem of a newsletter is packed with all sorts of things to do wit hthe security of your computer etc and its all put in "Plain english". The newsletter also includes stories from its readers about security threats discovered, potential security risks, recovering from disasterous situations and so on, well worth the read. From marrie12 at gmail.com Thu Sep 22 18:49:20 2011 From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah Alawami) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2011 10:49:20 -0700 Subject: Olympus Voice Recorders In-Reply-To: <4E7B432F.6080505@internode.on.net> References: <4E7B432F.6080505@internode.on.net> Message-ID: <86271222-2BD4-42DD-B0FE-626BAF810B61@gmail.com> Be aware that the dm420 cannot reorganise files. I found this the hard way and I got th econfirmation from olympus as well that the dm420 cannot move files from internal to external memmory and so forth. On Sep 22, 2011, at 7:16 AM, Dane Trethowan wrote: > Hurray! we now have a store that stocks these recorders, the full range so I'm going to have a look at at a few next week, may consider the purchase of 1. The Zoom H1 is a damn nice recorder but I have to admit the ability to organise files and folders whilst on the road so to speak would be handy. The Olympus recorders also have better auto gain controls as I understand it and they will also quite happily handle multiple formats for playback including MP3 files, I think one model even handles Daisy material. > > The model our store is advertising has 4GB of internal memory as well as a micro SD slot. > > My Iriver 320 device is finally proving to be too costly to repair so the Olympus should replace this rather nicely and I'm not complaining as the Iriver hard drive has been recording and playing audio nicely for the last 6 years. > > > -- > Dane Trethowan > Sending email from his EEEPC Netbook > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- From grtdane at internode.on.net Thu Sep 22 19:46:48 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane trethowan) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2011 04:46:48 +1000 Subject: Olympus Voice Recorders In-Reply-To: <86271222-2BD4-42DD-B0FE-626BAF810B61@gmail.com> References: <4E7B432F.6080505@internode.on.net> <86271222-2BD4-42DD-B0FE-626BAF810B61@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4E7B8298.2000103@internode.on.net> Is this a bug in the firmware or what and did Olympus say that they would try to fix the issue? On 23/09/2011 3:49 AM, Sarah Alawami wrote: > Be aware that the dm420 cannot reorganise files. I found this the hard way and I got th econfirmation from olympus as well that the dm420 cannot move files from internal to external memmory and so forth. > On Sep 22, 2011, at 7:16 AM, Dane Trethowan wrote: > >> Hurray! we now have a store that stocks these recorders, the full range so I'm going to have a look at at a few next week, may consider the purchase of 1. The Zoom H1 is a damn nice recorder but I have to admit the ability to organise files and folders whilst on the road so to speak would be handy. The Olympus recorders also have better auto gain controls as I understand it and they will also quite happily handle multiple formats for playback including MP3 files, I think one model even handles Daisy material. >> >> The model our store is advertising has 4GB of internal memory as well as a micro SD slot. >> >> My Iriver 320 device is finally proving to be too costly to repair so the Olympus should replace this rather nicely and I'm not complaining as the Iriver hard drive has been recording and playing audio nicely for the last 6 years. >> >> >> -- >> Dane Trethowan >> Sending email from his EEEPC Netbook >> >> >> ======================================= >> >> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free >> >> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat >> >> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: >> >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html >> >> Or: >> >> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: >> >> >> --------------------------------------- > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- From mstores at indiana.edu Fri Sep 23 03:26:36 2011 From: mstores at indiana.edu (Mary Stores) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2011 22:26:36 -0400 Subject: Reasonably priced digital recorders? Message-ID: <20110922222636.ahhan7ztusoo0cg8@webmail.iu.edu> Hi guys, So our disability services for students wants to purchase a tape recorder... yes, you heard right ... so he can record his Introductory Turkish class. So now I'm on the hunt. Do you all know of an accessible digital recorder/player for blind people that is $200 or les? This person is not technically savvy. He just barely learned to use jAWS to navigate the internet. He does not reply to e-mails, because he cannot type quickly. So something easy and accessible and reasonably priced mght be a lo to ask... but I thought i'd try. Thanks for anyhelp you can give me, Mary From grtdane at internode.on.net Fri Sep 23 06:16:47 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2011 15:16:47 +1000 Subject: Reasonably priced digital recorders? In-Reply-To: <20110922222636.ahhan7ztusoo0cg8@webmail.iu.edu> References: <20110922222636.ahhan7ztusoo0cg8@webmail.iu.edu> Message-ID: <22B738F9-B1D0-4745-8B56-4FC4D3E1CA38@internode.on.net> Howdy! I wonder whether just a cassette recorder may do the job? You can still buy the typical desktop machine with the classic piano key type arrangement for well under $200.00 here, I just checked with one of the stores where I buy radio gear from. I'm not sure I'd recommend the Zoom H1 that many list members use, whilst I'd term the device as veyr easy to use some of the buttons are very small and unless you're really concentrating then they can be easily knocked thus changing the mode of the recorder. One of the cheaper Olympus models that talks? Well that may be an option worth looking at too! On 23/09/2011, at 12:26 PM, Mary Stores wrote: > Hi guys, > > So our disability services for students wants to purchase a tape recorder... yes, you heard right ... so he can record his Introductory Turkish class. So now I'm on the hunt. Do you all know of an accessible digital recorder/player for blind people that is $200 or les? This person is not technically savvy. He just barely learned to use jAWS to navigate the internet. He does not reply to e-mails, because he cannot type quickly. So something easy and accessible and reasonably priced mght be a lo to ask... but I thought i'd try. > > Thanks for anyhelp you can give me, > > Mary > > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- From grtdane at internode.on.net Fri Sep 23 13:48:34 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2011 22:48:34 +1000 Subject: Replacement application for Windows Explorer Message-ID: <4E7C8022.3070704@internode.on.net> Subject line says everything that needs to be said. Thanks to some help I've found a replacement for the Windows Explorer called Xplorer 2. Windows Explorer doesn't really offer all that much when you're trying to do house keeping with files under Windows whereas Xplorer 2 certainly does and with minimum customisation this application becomes quite accessible with a Screen Reader. Xplorer 2 is very similar to X-Tree or Norton Commander so if people have used these programmes then you'll know the sort of thing I'm talking about. There is an X-Tree for Windows but I've not been able to make this accessible as yet though I can see everything on the screen the software refers to on the hard drive etc when I move the mouse pointer around the screen so I would imagine that if I sat down for an hour or so and played with X-Tree and a Screen Reader I could probably get x-Tree working reasonably well. Another file management utility which has been mentioned is something called Directory Opus or "DOpus" for short, I've not played with this utility yet and thus have no idea how well it will work nor how well it compares to Xplorer 2 but DOpus did get a very good review in the computer column, even has its own built-in FTP browser which makes perfect sense for a file manager . There's a 21 day trial of Xplorer 2 avaiable, unfortunately I don't have an URL handy right now, will look for and post later unless anyone else has found it before me. -- Dane Trethowan From Melton Victoria Australia skype callto:grtdane12 MSN: grtdane at dane-trethowan.net From mstores at indiana.edu Fri Sep 23 15:48:28 2011 From: mstores at indiana.edu (Mary Stores) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2011 10:48:28 -0400 Subject: Reasonably priced digital recorders? In-Reply-To: <22B738F9-B1D0-4745-8B56-4FC4D3E1CA38@internode.on.net> References: <20110922222636.ahhan7ztusoo0cg8@webmail.iu.edu> <22B738F9-B1D0-4745-8B56-4FC4D3E1CA38@internode.on.net> Message-ID: <20110923104828.oehvth6fkcoco8wc@webmail.iu.edu> Is it easy to tell which Olympus model talks? Thanks, Dane Mary Quoting Dane Trethowan : > Howdy! > > I wonder whether just a cassette recorder may do the job? You can > still buy the typical desktop machine with the classic piano key type > arrangement for well under $200.00 here, I just checked with one of > the stores where I buy radio gear from. > > I'm not sure I'd recommend the Zoom H1 that many list members use, > whilst I'd term the device as veyr easy to use some of the buttons > are very small and unless you're really concentrating then they can > be easily knocked thus changing the mode of the recorder. > > One of the cheaper Olympus models that talks? Well that may be an > option worth looking at too! > > > On 23/09/2011, at 12:26 PM, Mary Stores wrote: > >> Hi guys, >> >> So our disability services for students wants to purchase a tape >> recorder... yes, you heard right ... so he can record his >> Introductory Turkish class. So now I'm on the hunt. Do you all know >> of an accessible digital recorder/player for blind people that is >> $200 or les? This person is not technically savvy. He just barely >> learned to use jAWS to navigate the internet. He does not reply to >> e-mails, because he cannot type quickly. So something easy and >> accessible and reasonably priced mght be a lo to ask... but I >> thought i'd try. >> >> Thanks for anyhelp you can give me, >> >> Mary >> >> >> >> ======================================= >> >> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, >> virus and worm-free >> >> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's >> dedicated web pages located at >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat >> >> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat >> group at either of the following websites: >> >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html >> >> Or: >> >> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: >> >> >> --------------------------------------- > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, > virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's > dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat > group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- > From grtdane at internode.on.net Fri Sep 23 16:29:39 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2011 01:29:39 +1000 Subject: Reasonably priced digital recorders? In-Reply-To: <20110923104828.oehvth6fkcoco8wc@webmail.iu.edu> References: <20110922222636.ahhan7ztusoo0cg8@webmail.iu.edu> <22B738F9-B1D0-4745-8B56-4FC4D3E1CA38@internode.on.net> <20110923104828.oehvth6fkcoco8wc@webmail.iu.edu> Message-ID: <4D1CF0B5-E966-4D04-9B7E-2D25AE6896F1@internode.on.net> I think they all do as far as I know and I think prices start from $100.00 or so, have you taken a look at Independent living Aids at as I reckon that would be your best bet for further information. On 24/09/2011, at 12:48 AM, Mary Stores wrote: > Is it easy to tell which Olympus model talks? > > Thanks, Dane > > Mary > > Quoting Dane Trethowan : > >> Howdy! >> >> I wonder whether just a cassette recorder may do the job? You can >> still buy the typical desktop machine with the classic piano key type >> arrangement for well under $200.00 here, I just checked with one of >> the stores where I buy radio gear from. >> >> I'm not sure I'd recommend the Zoom H1 that many list members use, >> whilst I'd term the device as veyr easy to use some of the buttons >> are very small and unless you're really concentrating then they can >> be easily knocked thus changing the mode of the recorder. >> >> One of the cheaper Olympus models that talks? Well that may be an >> option worth looking at too! >> >> >> On 23/09/2011, at 12:26 PM, Mary Stores wrote: >> >>> Hi guys, >>> >>> So our disability services for students wants to purchase a tape >>> recorder... yes, you heard right ... so he can record his >>> Introductory Turkish class. So now I'm on the hunt. Do you all know >>> of an accessible digital recorder/player for blind people that is >>> $200 or les? This person is not technically savvy. He just barely >>> learned to use jAWS to navigate the internet. He does not reply to >>> e-mails, because he cannot type quickly. So something easy and >>> accessible and reasonably priced mght be a lo to ask... but I >>> thought i'd try. >>> >>> Thanks for anyhelp you can give me, >>> >>> Mary >>> >>> >>> >>> ======================================= >>> >>> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, >>> virus and worm-free >>> >>> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's >>> dedicated web pages located at >>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat >>> >>> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat >>> group at either of the following websites: >>> >>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html >>> >>> Or: >>> >>> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: >>> >>> >>> --------------------------------------- >> >> >> ======================================= >> >> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, >> virus and worm-free >> >> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's >> dedicated web pages located at >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat >> >> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat >> group at either of the following websites: >> >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html >> >> Or: >> >> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: >> >> >> --------------------------------------- >> > > > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- From mstores at indiana.edu Fri Sep 23 18:17:06 2011 From: mstores at indiana.edu (Mary Stores) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2011 13:17:06 -0400 Subject: Reasonably priced digital recorders? In-Reply-To: <4D1CF0B5-E966-4D04-9B7E-2D25AE6896F1@internode.on.net> References: <20110922222636.ahhan7ztusoo0cg8@webmail.iu.edu> <22B738F9-B1D0-4745-8B56-4FC4D3E1CA38@internode.on.net> <20110923104828.oehvth6fkcoco8wc@webmail.iu.edu> <4D1CF0B5-E966-4D04-9B7E-2D25AE6896F1@internode.on.net> Message-ID: <20110923131706.xx67w95ddwkskg0k@webmail.iu.edu> Actually, I have discovered they all aren't. The best thing to do is to look for the voice guideance feature. ILA sales them for $50-100 over what you can get from amazon.com or getolympus.com, but I searched ILA to discovered this. Thanks, Mary Quoting Dane Trethowan : > I think they all do as far as I know and I think prices start from > $100.00 or so, have you taken a look at Independent living Aids at > as I reckon that would be your > best bet for further information. > > From grtdane at internode.on.net Fri Sep 23 18:19:48 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane trethowan) Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2011 03:19:48 +1000 Subject: Windows News Message-ID: <4E7CBFB4.5060900@internode.on.net> An other great newsletter to read which comes out every week and full of diverse opinion and some facts you probably didn't even know about Windows 7 like the fact that the System Restore functionality in Windows 7 is now very similar to that of Rollback RX Pro? Well how easy it is to use when booting the computer I don't know as yet This issue also talks about Windows 8, you can download the Developers Evaluation edition and also discusses whether desktop computing as we know it is dead? Anyway if you wish to read the current issue then go to From grtdane at internode.on.net Fri Sep 23 18:20:53 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane trethowan) Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2011 03:20:53 +1000 Subject: Reasonably priced digital recorders? In-Reply-To: <20110923131706.xx67w95ddwkskg0k@webmail.iu.edu> References: <20110922222636.ahhan7ztusoo0cg8@webmail.iu.edu> <22B738F9-B1D0-4745-8B56-4FC4D3E1CA38@internode.on.net> <20110923104828.oehvth6fkcoco8wc@webmail.iu.edu> <4D1CF0B5-E966-4D04-9B7E-2D25AE6896F1@internode.on.net> <20110923131706.xx67w95ddwkskg0k@webmail.iu.edu> Message-ID: <4E7CBFF5.2050600@internode.on.net> Yep indeed thanks, I wasn't aware of this and thought they all had the "Voice Guidance" system. On 24/09/2011 3:17 AM, Mary Stores wrote: > Actually, I have discovered they all aren't. The best thing to do is > to look for the voice guideance feature. ILA sales them for $50-100 > over what you can get from amazon.com or getolympus.com, but I > searched ILA to discovered this. > > Thanks, > > Mary > > Quoting Dane Trethowan : > >> I think they all do as far as I know and I think prices start from >> $100.00 or so, have you taken a look at Independent living Aids at >> as I reckon that would be your >> best bet for further information. >> >> > > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, > virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's > dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat > group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- From chris.hallsworth at techno-chat.net Fri Sep 23 19:08:01 2011 From: chris.hallsworth at techno-chat.net (chris hallsworth) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2011 19:08:01 +0100 Subject: Windows News In-Reply-To: <4E7CBFB4.5060900@internode.on.net> References: <4E7CBFB4.5060900@internode.on.net> Message-ID: <4E7CCB01.609@techno-chat.net> Cheers, I have put my name down for the newsletter. On 23/09/2011 18:19, Dane trethowan wrote: > An other great newsletter to read which comes out every week and full of > diverse opinion and some facts you probably didn't even know about > Windows 7 like the fact that the System Restore functionality in Windows > 7 is now very similar to that of Rollback RX Pro? Well how easy it is to > use when booting the computer I don't know as yet > > This issue also talks about Windows 8, you can download the Developers > Evaluation edition and also discusses whether desktop computing as we > know it is dead? > > Anyway if you wish to read the current issue then go to > > > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, > virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated > web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group > at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- > From martin at x.it.okstate.edu Fri Sep 23 19:40:43 2011 From: martin at x.it.okstate.edu (Martin McCormick) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2011 13:40:43 -0500 Subject: Ready to Play the Space Junk Lottery? Message-ID: <201109231840.p8NIehnO077259@x.it.okstate.edu> This lottery costs you nothing unless you "win." A spent NASA satellite which is reportedly about the size of a school bus is orbiting the Earth at around 5 miles per second and is due to re-enter the Earth's atmosphere sometime this evening or near Midnight in the UK. It could conceivably crash anywhere on Earth, but scientists think it will hit off the coast of Chile. The thing weighs about 13-thousand pounds and has actually been photographed tumbling in its last few orbits. Where it actually comes back to Earth is not known for sure because it is not under anybody's control as it is non-functional. It will drop in altitude faster and faster and eventually, it will begin to break up and burn in the upper atmosphere. Most of it will disappear, there, but it is expected that 25 or 26 pieces are substantial enough to survive all the way to the ground. Since 75% of the Earth is covered by water, the odds are very good that it will splash in to the ocean somewhere and hurt nothing, but there is always that chance it could hit land that is populated. There have been a number of pieces of space junk that did hit land, but nobody has yet been injured or killed. I imagine nobody will be hit this time, either, but this is a lottery I would rather not win unless you look at it as the looser gets clobbered and the rest of us win. The odds are much more likely that we will be in a car accident or even get hit by lightning than that we will ever be near or hit by falling space junk. The increase in Solar activity this year means that things that are in orbit can be nudged in to different orbits so working satellites and the International Space Station actually have to fire off rocket engines every so often to correct their orbit and stay where they should be. From chris.hallsworth at techno-chat.net Sat Sep 24 12:10:07 2011 From: chris.hallsworth at techno-chat.net (chris hallsworth) Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2011 12:10:07 +0100 Subject: Acer Aspire 5733 Message-ID: <4E7DBA8F.6070005@techno-chat.net> Hello all. Does anyone know the keyboard layout for this laptop? Please include any multimedia keys and whether there's any touch sensitive keys as with the case on some laptops. Asking on behalf of a friend who has just received it. Please reply as soon as possible. Cheers. Chat soon. From grtdane at internode.on.net Sun Sep 25 00:16:46 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2011 09:16:46 +1000 Subject: HP Officejet Pro 8500A Plus e-All-in-One Printer - A910g (CM756A) specifications - HP Home & Home Office products Message-ID: <4E7E64DE.6090003@internode.on.net> Hi! People have written to me asking about the specifications for the Printer I've described on list which I recently purchased, the HP Officejet Pro 8500A Plus multi function printer, you chan check out the full specs page for this device at Hi! So as list members can see my new Colour printer has replaced my old llaserjet printer though perhaps not quite. I'm sure I read somewhere that sheets of labels couldn't be used in a colour printer and if this is indeed correct then my Laserjet printer is going to have a few years of life left in it, certainly worth the hundred or so dollars it will cost to get a new drum and tonar. Anyway does anyone know of special labels can be purchased for colour enk jets to use? I only use labels to put on envelops, it seems the only one thing the HP 8500A Plus lacks is an envelope feeder as luck would have it . -- Dane Trethowan From Melton Victoria Australia skype callto:grtdane12 MSN: grtdane at dane-trethowan.net From lynne at mac-access.net Sun Sep 25 14:48:59 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2011 14:48:59 +0100 Subject: Reasonably priced digital recorders? In-Reply-To: <20110922222636.ahhan7ztusoo0cg8@webmail.iu.edu> References: <20110922222636.ahhan7ztusoo0cg8@webmail.iu.edu> Message-ID: <1E1B04EA-4176-4EFB-834B-E66948B53F6B@mac-access.net> On 23 Sep 2011, at 03:26, Mary Stores wrote: Hi guys, So our disability services for students wants to purchase a tape recorder... yes, you heard right ... so he can record his Introductory Turkish class. So now I'm on the hunt. Do you all know of an accessible digital recorder/player for blind people that is $200 or les? This person is not technically savvy. He just barely learned to use jAWS to navigate the internet. He does not reply to e-mails, because he cannot type My recommendation is the Zoom H1 because they're cheap and easy to use. Lynne quickly. So something easy and accessible and reasonably priced mght be a lo to ask... but I thought i'd try. Thanks for anyhelp you can give me, Mary ======================================= The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html Or: you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: --------------------------------------- From lynne at mac-access.net Sun Sep 25 14:57:57 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2011 14:57:57 +0100 Subject: Ready to Play the Space Junk Lottery? In-Reply-To: <201109231840.p8NIehnO077259@x.it.okstate.edu> References: <201109231840.p8NIehnO077259@x.it.okstate.edu> Message-ID: Hello Martin I gather it hit somewhere in Canada, although I'm not sure where it was exactly. Lynne On 23 Sep 2011, at 19:40, Martin McCormick wrote: This lottery costs you nothing unless you "win." A spent NASA satellite which is reportedly about the size of a school bus is orbiting the Earth at around 5 miles per second and is due to re-enter the Earth's atmosphere sometime this evening or near Midnight in the UK. It could conceivably crash anywhere on Earth, but scientists think it will hit off the coast of Chile. The thing weighs about 13-thousand pounds and has actually been photographed tumbling in its last few orbits. Where it actually comes back to Earth is not known for sure because it is not under anybody's control as it is non-functional. It will drop in altitude faster and faster and eventually, it will begin to break up and burn in the upper atmosphere. Most of it will disappear, there, but it is expected that 25 or 26 pieces are substantial enough to survive all the way to the ground. Since 75% of the Earth is covered by water, the odds are very good that it will splash in to the ocean somewhere and hurt nothing, but there is always that chance it could hit land that is populated. There have been a number of pieces of space junk that did hit land, but nobody has yet been injured or killed. I imagine nobody will be hit this time, either, but this is a lottery I would rather not win unless you look at it as the looser gets clobbered and the rest of us win. The odds are much more likely that we will be in a car accident or even get hit by lightning than that we will ever be near or hit by falling space junk. The increase in Solar activity this year means that things that are in orbit can be nudged in to different orbits so working satellites and the International Space Station actually have to fire off rocket engines every so often to correct their orbit and stay where they should be. ======================================= The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html Or: you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: --------------------------------------- From martin at x.it.okstate.edu Mon Sep 26 16:16:34 2011 From: martin at x.it.okstate.edu (Martin McCormick) Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2011 10:16:34 -0500 Subject: Ready to Play the Space Junk Lottery? Message-ID: <201109261516.p8QFGYwa091711@x.it.okstate.edu> This is sort of a case of "I shot an arrow in the air. It fell to Earth, I know not where." It is possible it landed in the Northern Pacific near Canada. Others in Hawaii say they saw blazing debris or maybe just a meteor in the sky. It is possible both are correct and it was parts of the satellite which it might have started shedding as it began to cut through the upper atmosphere. There have been no reports of any debris hitting land or people. When substantial objects fall from space, people have reported hearing sonic booms as the junk breaks the sound barrier. Nobody reported hearing such sounds so it is quite likely that the remaining ton or so of pieces splashed harmlessly in to the Pacific. The impact was thought to havv occurred between Midnight and 03:00 Eastern Standard Time in the US. I started making a recording of 55.240 MHZ starting at 23:01 or 1 minute after eleven P.M. in the Central time zone. I haven't had time to listen yet, but it is possible if debris came in over Canada, it could create an ionization cloud which would reflect the remaining TV Channel 2 video carriers in North America. Canada just turned off most all their analog television transmitters on August 31 so we are running out of video carriers but if I hear anything at all in that time window, it may be the burning satellite. I will be very surprised to hear anything extraordinary, but I will let you know if it happens. Actually, there are still tons of Channel 2 television transmitters in North America, but they are all in Mexico which is a bit of a stretch when you are looking toward Canada. Sorry for the long-winded answer, but I will have a listen to the recording and see if there is any more than the occasional tiny meteor "ping" as they are called. Those are very common so we are listening for a major whoosh of noise which would very likely be some of that satellite. Martin "Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith" writes: > Hello Martin > > I gather it hit somewhere in Canada, although I'm not sure where it was > exactly. From support at techno-chat.net Mon Sep 26 17:05:34 2011 From: support at techno-chat.net (Gordon & Lynne) Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2011 17:05:34 +0100 Subject: Techno-Chat.net; Reminder Message-ID: <98B4336A-9EE2-40FD-9489-875D0BCF5280@techno-chat.net> Hello everybody I just thought I'd post a tiny little reminder, for those who are interested, that there's a news Windows-Access list which is available via the Techno-Chat network, as we're calling it. We hope to have it built up into something much more than it is now. Anyway, to start with, there's a new Windows-Access list run alongside our Mac-Access list which is proving quite popular. Windows-Access is in its infancy at the moment; but we hope that, given time, it will grow alongside its sister group. If you're interested in reading more about, or joining Windows-Access, you may do so here: or, if you'd like to review the list policy document you can find it at: Or, if you have further questions, contact us off list at . Lynne From lynne at mac-access.net Mon Sep 26 17:10:58 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2011 17:10:58 +0100 Subject: Ready to Play the Space Junk Lottery? In-Reply-To: <201109261516.p8QFGYwa091711@x.it.okstate.edu> References: <201109261516.p8QFGYwa091711@x.it.okstate.edu> Message-ID: Hello Martin We were given news reports on Saturday morning that the biggest pieces of this thing fell into an unpopulated region of Canada. That may be speculation; but it's what our media reported. Lynne On 26 Sep 2011, at 16:16, Martin McCormick wrote: This is sort of a case of "I shot an arrow in the air. It fell to Earth, I know not where." From martin at x.it.okstate.edu Mon Sep 26 19:22:35 2011 From: martin at x.it.okstate.edu (Martin McCormick) Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2011 13:22:35 -0500 Subject: Ready to Play the Space Junk Lottery? Message-ID: <201109261822.p8QIMZlu092755@x.it.okstate.edu> They probably got the same input that our media did. The interesting thing is that nobody appears to have called in to report what would have been a spectacular sight and sounds. While it might be almost impossible to find the debris field on the ground in sparsely-populated Northern Canada, the reentry would have been visible for literally hundreds of miles. When things burn up in our upper atmosphere, they start ionizing and burning around 50 or 60 miles above the ground. That is roughly the E layer of the ionosphere and radio signals that reflect off that layer can be heard almost 1000 miles away with distances of 600 to 800 miles being very common. If you had a big piece of space junk at that altitude, people could see it glowing brightly in an area 6 or 8-hundred miles around so it's kind of hard to miss something like that, especially if it also goes "boom!" and plows in to the ground. That is what makes me think it hit the ocean. The Pacific is so huge that it is one of the few places something that big could happen and not be seen by anybody. Both Canada and the United States have defense radars and then there are civilian aviation radars that track aircraft and weather systems so somebody should have seen something. While this satellite only presented a danger if one happened to be unlucky enough to have been standing under pieces of falling junk, I am reminded of the Russian spy satellite that did fall in to Northern Canada many years ago. That satellite had what is called a nuclear thermopile as its power supply. This is a container of a radio-active element such as strontium which keeps itself red hot for years by all the atomic decay going on. It's like a tiny atomic reactor and the generator is a series of thermocouples similar to ones you might have in your water heater or gas stove to signal that the pilot light has not gone out. Each thermocouple generates some voltage when heated so a whole pile of them, so to speak, makes enough current to run the systems on the satellite. These power plants are fine and dandy as long as they do not fall back to Earth and break open, spewing their contents everywhere. The Russian satellite crashed in the tundra of Northern Canada and splattered radio-active pieces everywhere. Specially trained emergency workers flew a plane with a detector on board and crisscrossed the area until they were able to alert the ground crew where all the hot spots were so they could remove them and make the area safe again. "Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith" writes: > We were given news reports on Saturday morning that the biggest pieces of > this thing fell into an unpopulated region of Canada. That may be > speculation; but it's what our media reported. From mstores at indiana.edu Mon Sep 26 19:29:15 2011 From: mstores at indiana.edu (Mary Stores) Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2011 14:29:15 -0400 Subject: Ready to Play the Space Junk Lottery? In-Reply-To: <201109261822.p8QIMZlu092755@x.it.okstate.edu> References: <201109261822.p8QIMZlu092755@x.it.okstate.edu> Message-ID: <20110926142915.agfh9d00u8c0s48w@webmail.iu.edu> Hi Martin I have a question based on what you wrote, and I only quoted the relevant part of your message below: I wonder if the tundra in Northern Canada would really be safe after such an event? I am skeptical. And how do people go around cleaning stuff up like that? Martin wrote: While this satellite only presented a danger if one > happened to be unlucky enough to have been standing under pieces > of falling junk, I am reminded of the Russian spy satellite that > did fall in to Northern Canada many years ago. That satellite > had what is called a nuclear thermopile as its power supply. This > is a container of a radio-active element such as strontium which > keeps itself red hot for years by all the atomic decay going on. > It's like a tiny atomic reactor and the generator is a series of > thermocouples similar to ones you might have in your water > heater or gas stove to signal that the pilot light has not gone > out. Each thermocouple generates some voltage when heated so a > whole pile of them, so to speak, makes enough current to run the > systems on the satellite. > > These power plants are fine and dandy as long as they do > not fall back to Earth and break open, spewing their contents > everywhere. > > The Russian satellite crashed in the tundra of Northern > Canada and splattered radio-active pieces everywhere. > > Specially trained emergency workers flew a plane with a > detector on board and crisscrossed the area until they were able > to alert the ground crew where all the hot spots were so they > could remove them and make the area safe again. > From martin at x.it.okstate.edu Mon Sep 26 20:57:24 2011 From: martin at x.it.okstate.edu (Martin McCormick) Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2011 14:57:24 -0500 Subject: Ready to Play the Space Junk Lottery? Message-ID: <201109261957.p8QJvOnB093204@x.it.okstate.edu> I would think that this would be one of the more straight-forward cleanup operations. The Canadians knew shortly after it hit and started cleaning up the radiation rather soon so natural processes wouldn't have had much time to spread it around. It would be like prospecting for Uranium only this stuff is highly radioactive so it would lead the searchers right to it and the airplane would be able to survey a larger area so it's like searching for fires. You shouldn't see any so if you do, you need to get it out. Cleaning it up would involved digging up the ground that was contaminated. It would probably have melted its way in a little and the impact would have made holes where the pieces hit, but it isn't like it is going to bore down through the Earth. I don't know how many pieces they were having to deal with, but it would be a case of dig and dig until there is no further radiation and then move to the next spot and dig all that out, probably not terribly deep, but you, of course must be thorough and the ground is frozen. The real problem is what do you do with all that awful stuff after you cleaned up the ground? It was probably put in to containers of some kind and shipped as highly dangerous atomic waste to a special site where spent fuel rods and other high-level radioactive waste is stored. That kind of stuff is capable of killing people after only a few hours of exposure so all the hazzmat workers and people who trucked away all the debris had to exercise the highest level of radiation safety in every thing they did. They probably got the ground cleaned up pretty well, but that junk is still sitting in a waste containment facility somewhere just as nasty as it was the day it was scooped off the ground. I don't know if you know this or not, but every single piece of nuclear waste produced since 1945 is still sitting around, waiting for somebody to figure out what to do with it. Mostly, they put it in places where there is little earthquake activity and where it is not likely to get in to water supplies, but it just doesn't go away. Mary Stores writes: > I wonder if the tundra in Northern Canada would really be safe after such > an event? I am skeptical. And how do people go around cleaning stuff up > like that? From gordon at mac-access.net Tue Sep 27 16:48:36 2011 From: gordon at mac-access.net (Gordon Smith) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2011 16:48:36 +0100 Subject: Zoom H1 In-Reply-To: <4E75A43B.1060707@internode.on.net> References: <0F894455-43FA-47FD-993F-BB074835F417@mac-access.net> <4E75A43B.1060707@internode.on.net> Message-ID: <5D9A9113-91E6-41DF-801B-E50913A287F5@mac-access.net> Hi Dane, sorry for the delay. I had a bit of a memory lapse, and when I pulled the H1 out of its case after coming out of hospital I found to my horror that I couldn't remember how to drive the darn thing. So thanks for the reminder, it was the power/lock switch I couldn't remember. But I'm also a bit forgetfully confused as to the procedure for erasing from the H1. I had thought that the procedure was to press that while the thing you want to erase is playing, and then press the record/stop button to confirm. But when I tried it just now it didn't seem to work. There's a hell of a lot I need to retrain with, and not just regarding H1. But the H1 is my focus at the moment. Gordon On 18 Sep 2011, at 08:56, Dane Trethowan wrote: Okay well firstly given that the Zoom H1 doesn't have any editing controls - well not yet at any rate - as part of its built in control set then you're going to have to do a little editing possibly on your computer so let's go through a few basics that may help make that task somewhat easier. Remember that the big round button on the front is your "Record/stop" toggle if you like, turn the recorder on and its in "Standby" mode, press the round button and recorder starts recording. Press the round button again and recorder stops recording and returns to "Standby". Press the round button again and the recorder starts recording to a new file, each new file is numbered in a sequence starting from 01. Now whilst in a recording you can "Mark" a particular position in a file and these markers are recognised by audio editors such as Sound Forge, Amadeus Pro and similar. To set a mark press the "Play" button on the right hand side of the recorder, from top to bottom the itmes on the right hand side are input jack, input up/down, fast forward, play, rewind and the small indented erase button, below that is the power on/off/lock slider switch. On 18/09/2011 5:48 PM, Gordon Smith wrote: > Hi all > > This is going to sound incredibly dumb. But I need a bit of help, from the blind person's perspective with regards using the H1 digital recorder. > > My only excuse is that I am physically and mentally battered just at the moment, because of all this darn medical stuff, drugs and physical ailments. > > Lynne can give me a helping hand from the perspective of somebody with vision. But if anybody could possibly give me a description of the controls I'd be grateful. I need to make an on-location recording in hospital tomorrow, and although I can edit the files when I get home, it would undoubtedly help if I have some manipulation capabilities with the machine itself. > > So if anybody could help me I'd be very grateful. > > Gordon > > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- -- Dane Trethowan From Melton Victoria Australia skype callto:grtdane12 MSN: grtdane at dane-trethowan.net ======================================= The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html Or: you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: --------------------------------------- From grtdane at internode.on.net Tue Sep 27 16:51:49 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2011 01:51:49 +1000 Subject: Zoom H1 In-Reply-To: <5D9A9113-91E6-41DF-801B-E50913A287F5@mac-access.net> References: <0F894455-43FA-47FD-993F-BB074835F417@mac-access.net> <4E75A43B.1060707@internode.on.net> <5D9A9113-91E6-41DF-801B-E50913A287F5@mac-access.net> Message-ID: <4E81F115.1000501@internode.on.net> Yep, to erase the track or file that's currently playing, presss the "Erase" button which is located above the Power on/off/lock switch, file stops playing and H1 prompts "Erase file?" press the round record button on the front of the unit, file will then be erased. On 28/09/2011 1:48 AM, Gordon Smith wrote: > Hi Dane, sorry for the delay. > > I had a bit of a memory lapse, and when I pulled the H1 out of its case after coming out of hospital I found to my horror that I couldn't remember how to drive the darn thing. > > So thanks for the reminder, it was the power/lock switch I couldn't remember. But I'm also a bit forgetfully confused as to the procedure for erasing from the H1. I had thought that the procedure was to press that while the thing you want to erase is playing, and then press the record/stop button to confirm. But when I tried it just now it didn't seem to work. > > There's a hell of a lot I need to retrain with, and not just regarding H1. But the H1 is my focus at the moment. > > Gordon > > > On 18 Sep 2011, at 08:56, Dane Trethowan wrote: > > Okay well firstly given that the Zoom H1 doesn't have any editing controls - well not yet at any rate - as part of its built in control set then you're going to have to do a little editing possibly on your computer so let's go through a few basics that may help make that task somewhat easier. > > Remember that the big round button on the front is your "Record/stop" toggle if you like, turn the recorder on and its in "Standby" mode, press the round button and recorder starts recording. > > Press the round button again and recorder stops recording and returns to "Standby". > > Press the round button again and the recorder starts recording to a new file, each new file is numbered in a sequence starting from 01. > > Now whilst in a recording you can "Mark" a particular position in a file and these markers are recognised by audio editors such as Sound Forge, Amadeus Pro and similar. > > To set a mark press the "Play" button on the right hand side of the recorder, from top to bottom the itmes on the right hand side are input jack, input up/down, fast forward, play, rewind and the small indented erase button, below that is the power on/off/lock slider switch. > > > > On 18/09/2011 5:48 PM, Gordon Smith wrote: >> Hi all >> >> This is going to sound incredibly dumb. But I need a bit of help, from the blind person's perspective with regards using the H1 digital recorder. >> >> My only excuse is that I am physically and mentally battered just at the moment, because of all this darn medical stuff, drugs and physical ailments. >> >> Lynne can give me a helping hand from the perspective of somebody with vision. But if anybody could possibly give me a description of the controls I'd be grateful. I need to make an on-location recording in hospital tomorrow, and although I can edit the files when I get home, it would undoubtedly help if I have some manipulation capabilities with the machine itself. >> >> So if anybody could help me I'd be very grateful. >> >> Gordon >> >> >> >> ======================================= >> >> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free >> >> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat >> >> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: >> >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html >> >> Or: >> >> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: >> >> >> --------------------------------------- -- Dane Trethowan Sending email from his EEEPC Netbook From gordon at mac-access.net Tue Sep 27 17:44:16 2011 From: gordon at mac-access.net (Gordon Smith) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2011 17:44:16 +0100 Subject: Zoom H1 In-Reply-To: <4E81F115.1000501@internode.on.net> References: <0F894455-43FA-47FD-993F-BB074835F417@mac-access.net> <4E75A43B.1060707@internode.on.net> <5D9A9113-91E6-41DF-801B-E50913A287F5@mac-access.net> <4E81F115.1000501@internode.on.net> Message-ID: Hi Dane Yes, that's as I thought. I really must start playing around with these things a little more. I must also get my Plextalk fixed as it's been damaged by an unfortunate accident. I was making a recording a while ago which involved climbing a ladder to gain access to the deck of a ship moored in permanent dry dock. Well, I got safely to the top, as did the Plextalk. I made the recording and it was on the way down that the accident happened. A friend of Lynne's offered to carry the Plextalk down for me. Out of politeness, I accepted her offer and let her do it. Well as she got on to the ladder, we heard a scream and then an unpleasant crash. She was alright, she didn't fall. But apparently she isn't have a secure enough hold on the Plextalk and it took the shortcut ride to reach the bottom. Although it was in its bag, when I got it back, along with her profuse apologies and her many offers to replace it, it soon became obvious to me that the machine had suffered significantly for its shortcut ride. The CD drive within the player is non-functional. I'm guessing that the head has become misaligned and it won't read the disks accordingly. So, I have that to repair now. I'm sure it's fixable, it just probably needs a new CD drive installing. Anyway, I'm babbling. Gordon On 27 Sep 2011, at 16:51, Dane Trethowan wrote: Yep, to erase the track or file that's currently playing, presss the "Erase" button which is located above the Power on/off/lock switch, file stops playing and H1 prompts "Erase file?" press the round record button on the front of the unit, file will then be erased. On 28/09/2011 1:48 AM, Gordon Smith wrote: > Hi Dane, sorry for the delay. > > I had a bit of a memory lapse, and when I pulled the H1 out of its case after coming out of hospital I found to my horror that I couldn't remember how to drive the darn thing. > > So thanks for the reminder, it was the power/lock switch I couldn't remember. But I'm also a bit forgetfully confused as to the procedure for erasing from the H1. I had thought that the procedure was to press that while the thing you want to erase is playing, and then press the record/stop button to confirm. But when I tried it just now it didn't seem to work. > > There's a hell of a lot I need to retrain with, and not just regarding H1. But the H1 is my focus at the moment. > > Gordon > > > On 18 Sep 2011, at 08:56, Dane Trethowan wrote: > > Okay well firstly given that the Zoom H1 doesn't have any editing controls - well not yet at any rate - as part of its built in control set then you're going to have to do a little editing possibly on your computer so let's go through a few basics that may help make that task somewhat easier. > > Remember that the big round button on the front is your "Record/stop" toggle if you like, turn the recorder on and its in "Standby" mode, press the round button and recorder starts recording. > > Press the round button again and recorder stops recording and returns to "Standby". > > Press the round button again and the recorder starts recording to a new file, each new file is numbered in a sequence starting from 01. > > Now whilst in a recording you can "Mark" a particular position in a file and these markers are recognised by audio editors such as Sound Forge, Amadeus Pro and similar. > > To set a mark press the "Play" button on the right hand side of the recorder, from top to bottom the itmes on the right hand side are input jack, input up/down, fast forward, play, rewind and the small indented erase button, below that is the power on/off/lock slider switch. > > > > On 18/09/2011 5:48 PM, Gordon Smith wrote: >> Hi all >> >> This is going to sound incredibly dumb. But I need a bit of help, from the blind person's perspective with regards using the H1 digital recorder. >> >> My only excuse is that I am physically and mentally battered just at the moment, because of all this darn medical stuff, drugs and physical ailments. >> >> Lynne can give me a helping hand from the perspective of somebody with vision. But if anybody could possibly give me a description of the controls I'd be grateful. I need to make an on-location recording in hospital tomorrow, and although I can edit the files when I get home, it would undoubtedly help if I have some manipulation capabilities with the machine itself. >> >> So if anybody could help me I'd be very grateful. >> >> Gordon >> >> >> >> ======================================= >> >> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free >> >> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat >> >> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: >> >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html >> >> Or: >> >> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: >> >> >> --------------------------------------- -- Dane Trethowan Sending email from his EEEPC Netbook ======================================= The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html Or: you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: --------------------------------------- From grtdane at internode.on.net Tue Sep 27 18:08:46 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2011 03:08:46 +1000 Subject: Zoom H1 In-Reply-To: References: <0F894455-43FA-47FD-993F-BB074835F417@mac-access.net> <4E75A43B.1060707@internode.on.net> <5D9A9113-91E6-41DF-801B-E50913A287F5@mac-access.net> <4E81F115.1000501@internode.on.net> Message-ID: <73952780-792D-4FAA-BF84-BB7B2A3ED02A@internode.on.net> Accidents happen to the best of us, a similar thing happened to my Ibook as you may remember, I lost balance, I fell one way and the Ibook flew another The question is now does the Plextalk take a standard CD ROM drive? If not then parts may be a problem given what happened in Japan earlier this year. On 28/09/2011, at 2:44 AM, Gordon Smith wrote: > Hi Dane > > Yes, that's as I thought. I really must start playing around with these things a little more. I must also get my Plextalk fixed as it's been damaged by an unfortunate accident. > > I was making a recording a while ago which involved climbing a ladder to gain access to the deck of a ship moored in permanent dry dock. Well, I got safely to the top, as did the Plextalk. I made the recording and it was on the way down that the accident happened. A friend of Lynne's offered to carry the Plextalk down for me. Out of politeness, I accepted her offer and let her do it. Well as she got on to the ladder, we heard a scream and then an unpleasant crash. She was alright, she didn't fall. But apparently she isn't have a secure enough hold on the Plextalk and it took the shortcut ride to reach the bottom. > > > Although it was in its bag, when I got it back, along with her profuse apologies and her many offers to replace it, it soon became obvious to me that the machine had suffered significantly for its shortcut ride. The CD drive within the player is non-functional. I'm guessing that the head has become misaligned and it won't read the disks accordingly. > > So, I have that to repair now. I'm sure it's fixable, it just probably needs a new CD drive installing. > > Anyway, I'm babbling. > > Gordon > > > On 27 Sep 2011, at 16:51, Dane Trethowan wrote: > > Yep, to erase the track or file that's currently playing, presss the "Erase" button which is located above the Power on/off/lock switch, file stops playing and H1 prompts "Erase file?" press the round record button on the front of the unit, file will then be erased. > > > > On 28/09/2011 1:48 AM, Gordon Smith wrote: >> Hi Dane, sorry for the delay. >> >> I had a bit of a memory lapse, and when I pulled the H1 out of its case after coming out of hospital I found to my horror that I couldn't remember how to drive the darn thing. >> >> So thanks for the reminder, it was the power/lock switch I couldn't remember. But I'm also a bit forgetfully confused as to the procedure for erasing from the H1. I had thought that the procedure was to press that while the thing you want to erase is playing, and then press the record/stop button to confirm. But when I tried it just now it didn't seem to work. >> >> There's a hell of a lot I need to retrain with, and not just regarding H1. But the H1 is my focus at the moment. >> >> Gordon >> >> >> On 18 Sep 2011, at 08:56, Dane Trethowan wrote: >> >> Okay well firstly given that the Zoom H1 doesn't have any editing controls - well not yet at any rate - as part of its built in control set then you're going to have to do a little editing possibly on your computer so let's go through a few basics that may help make that task somewhat easier. >> >> Remember that the big round button on the front is your "Record/stop" toggle if you like, turn the recorder on and its in "Standby" mode, press the round button and recorder starts recording. >> >> Press the round button again and recorder stops recording and returns to "Standby". >> >> Press the round button again and the recorder starts recording to a new file, each new file is numbered in a sequence starting from 01. >> >> Now whilst in a recording you can "Mark" a particular position in a file and these markers are recognised by audio editors such as Sound Forge, Amadeus Pro and similar. >> >> To set a mark press the "Play" button on the right hand side of the recorder, from top to bottom the itmes on the right hand side are input jack, input up/down, fast forward, play, rewind and the small indented erase button, below that is the power on/off/lock slider switch. >> >> >> >> On 18/09/2011 5:48 PM, Gordon Smith wrote: >>> Hi all >>> >>> This is going to sound incredibly dumb. But I need a bit of help, from the blind person's perspective with regards using the H1 digital recorder. >>> >>> My only excuse is that I am physically and mentally battered just at the moment, because of all this darn medical stuff, drugs and physical ailments. >>> >>> Lynne can give me a helping hand from the perspective of somebody with vision. But if anybody could possibly give me a description of the controls I'd be grateful. I need to make an on-location recording in hospital tomorrow, and although I can edit the files when I get home, it would undoubtedly help if I have some manipulation capabilities with the machine itself. >>> >>> So if anybody could help me I'd be very grateful. >>> >>> Gordon >>> >>> >>> >>> ======================================= >>> >>> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free >>> >>> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at >>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat >>> >>> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: >>> >>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html >>> >>> Or: >>> >>> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: >>> >>> >>> --------------------------------------- > > -- > Dane Trethowan > Sending email from his EEEPC Netbook > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- From gordon at mac-access.net Tue Sep 27 18:43:56 2011 From: gordon at mac-access.net (Gordon Smith) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2011 18:43:56 +0100 Subject: Zoom H1 In-Reply-To: <73952780-792D-4FAA-BF84-BB7B2A3ED02A@internode.on.net> References: <0F894455-43FA-47FD-993F-BB074835F417@mac-access.net> <4E75A43B.1060707@internode.on.net> <5D9A9113-91E6-41DF-801B-E50913A287F5@mac-access.net> <4E81F115.1000501@internode.on.net> <73952780-792D-4FAA-BF84-BB7B2A3ED02A@internode.on.net> Message-ID: Hi Dane No, it's not a problem. It uses a standard Teak internal drive which is used in many appliances these days. If I felt like trying I'm sure i could fix it myself it I acquired the drive. So Im not worried about parts. Gordon On 27 Sep 2011, at 18:08, Dane Trethowan wrote: Accidents happen to the best of us, a similar thing happened to my Ibook as you may remember, I lost balance, I fell one way and the Ibook flew another The question is now does the Plextalk take a standard CD ROM drive? If not then parts may be a problem given what happened in Japan earlier this year. On 28/09/2011, at 2:44 AM, Gordon Smith wrote: > Hi Dane > > Yes, that's as I thought. I really must start playing around with these things a little more. I must also get my Plextalk fixed as it's been damaged by an unfortunate accident. > > I was making a recording a while ago which involved climbing a ladder to gain access to the deck of a ship moored in permanent dry dock. Well, I got safely to the top, as did the Plextalk. I made the recording and it was on the way down that the accident happened. A friend of Lynne's offered to carry the Plextalk down for me. Out of politeness, I accepted her offer and let her do it. Well as she got on to the ladder, we heard a scream and then an unpleasant crash. She was alright, she didn't fall. But apparently she isn't have a secure enough hold on the Plextalk and it took the shortcut ride to reach the bottom. > > > Although it was in its bag, when I got it back, along with her profuse apologies and her many offers to replace it, it soon became obvious to me that the machine had suffered significantly for its shortcut ride. The CD drive within the player is non-functional. I'm guessing that the head has become misaligned and it won't read the disks accordingly. > > So, I have that to repair now. I'm sure it's fixable, it just probably needs a new CD drive installing. > > Anyway, I'm babbling. > > Gordon > > > On 27 Sep 2011, at 16:51, Dane Trethowan wrote: > > Yep, to erase the track or file that's currently playing, presss the "Erase" button which is located above the Power on/off/lock switch, file stops playing and H1 prompts "Erase file?" press the round record button on the front of the unit, file will then be erased. > > > > On 28/09/2011 1:48 AM, Gordon Smith wrote: >> Hi Dane, sorry for the delay. >> >> I had a bit of a memory lapse, and when I pulled the H1 out of its case after coming out of hospital I found to my horror that I couldn't remember how to drive the darn thing. >> >> So thanks for the reminder, it was the power/lock switch I couldn't remember. But I'm also a bit forgetfully confused as to the procedure for erasing from the H1. I had thought that the procedure was to press that while the thing you want to erase is playing, and then press the record/stop button to confirm. But when I tried it just now it didn't seem to work. >> >> There's a hell of a lot I need to retrain with, and not just regarding H1. But the H1 is my focus at the moment. >> >> Gordon >> >> >> On 18 Sep 2011, at 08:56, Dane Trethowan wrote: >> >> Okay well firstly given that the Zoom H1 doesn't have any editing controls - well not yet at any rate - as part of its built in control set then you're going to have to do a little editing possibly on your computer so let's go through a few basics that may help make that task somewhat easier. >> >> Remember that the big round button on the front is your "Record/stop" toggle if you like, turn the recorder on and its in "Standby" mode, press the round button and recorder starts recording. >> >> Press the round button again and recorder stops recording and returns to "Standby". >> >> Press the round button again and the recorder starts recording to a new file, each new file is numbered in a sequence starting from 01. >> >> Now whilst in a recording you can "Mark" a particular position in a file and these markers are recognised by audio editors such as Sound Forge, Amadeus Pro and similar. >> >> To set a mark press the "Play" button on the right hand side of the recorder, from top to bottom the itmes on the right hand side are input jack, input up/down, fast forward, play, rewind and the small indented erase button, below that is the power on/off/lock slider switch. >> >> >> >> On 18/09/2011 5:48 PM, Gordon Smith wrote: >>> Hi all >>> >>> This is going to sound incredibly dumb. But I need a bit of help, from the blind person's perspective with regards using the H1 digital recorder. >>> >>> My only excuse is that I am physically and mentally battered just at the moment, because of all this darn medical stuff, drugs and physical ailments. >>> >>> Lynne can give me a helping hand from the perspective of somebody with vision. But if anybody could possibly give me a description of the controls I'd be grateful. I need to make an on-location recording in hospital tomorrow, and although I can edit the files when I get home, it would undoubtedly help if I have some manipulation capabilities with the machine itself. >>> >>> So if anybody could help me I'd be very grateful. >>> >>> Gordon >>> >>> >>> >>> ======================================= >>> >>> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free >>> >>> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at >>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat >>> >>> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: >>> >>> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html >>> >>> Or: >>> >>> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: >>> >>> >>> --------------------------------------- > > -- > Dane Trethowan > Sending email from his EEEPC Netbook > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- ======================================= The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html Or: you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: --------------------------------------- From grtdane at internode.on.net Tue Sep 27 19:13:21 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2011 04:13:21 +1000 Subject: Just upgraded to Kurzweil v12 for Windows and... Message-ID: <6E374A1E-C47C-467D-869E-B1734178BF31@internode.on.net> Well worth the upgrade, recognition is not only more accurate than it was but its far faster, recognition has been very accurate in versions 10 and 11 so the status quo is welcomed! Software is far more stable than its ever been, well on my computer system at any rate. Haven't done all that much digging round the product so if there are any new features then I haven't found them yet. Yes, I admit that the product is costly but I certainly wouldn't say its not worth the money as its all dependent on your circumstances, if you want to "Dive Right in" and scan a 400 page book then this product is probably one you'll enjoy using for the task as it requires no real need to learn the Windows operating system, no complex keystrokes or shortcuts to get your job done and not even a Screen Reader though at the price it damn well ought to come with one . I coupled Kurzweil with my newly acquired HP Officejet 8500A Plus, scanning and recognition results were speedy, had 4 A4 pages of print scanned and recognised in around 30 seconds. Anyone else using K1000 v12? What do you think? From grtdane at internode.on.net Tue Sep 27 20:18:16 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2011 05:18:16 +1000 Subject: Airfoil For Windows, an accessibility improvement Message-ID: Okay foks, here's an accessibility enhancement in Airfoil For Windows I've been waiting for, I've written to the developers about the issue of selecting the target for transmission of input source for quite some time. Up until recently the only way you could select a target was to take pot luck by tabbing around the screen or moving the mouse, pressing a button and hoping for the best. Some Screen reading software such as WE allowed labeling and customisation of the buttons but this didn't seem to work all that well but it worked well enough in most cases. Now output points such as Apple TV'S, Airport Express units, Iphones, Ipads and other computers running the "Airfoil Speakers" application are listed in the menu which is accessed by pressing the "Alt" key, select the device you want to transmit to, wait a couple of seconds and transmission of your selected source starts. Conversely if you wish to stop transmission, select the device from the menu and press return, transmission of audio stops. Under new versions of Airfoil, you can transmit your source to multiple devices or instances of computers/Iphones/Ipads running "Airfoil Speakers" on your network. From lynne at mac-access.net Tue Sep 27 23:25:21 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2011 23:25:21 +0100 Subject: Just upgraded to Kurzweil v12 for Windows and... In-Reply-To: <6E374A1E-C47C-467D-869E-B1734178BF31@internode.on.net> References: <6E374A1E-C47C-467D-869E-B1734178BF31@internode.on.net> Message-ID: Hello Dane I'm pleased you like the upgrade. Actually I think Gillian is looking to buy that when she's able. it is, as you say, very expensive. I must say though; i'm puzzled as to how you'd get a main stream article like a scanner/printer with K1000. But well, so be it. Lynne On 27 Sep 2011, at 19:13, Dane Trethowan wrote: Well worth the upgrade, recognition is not only more accurate than it was but its far faster, recognition has been very accurate in versions 10 and 11 so the status quo is welcomed! Software is far more stable than its ever been, well on my computer system at any rate. Haven't done all that much digging round the product so if there are any new features then I haven't found them yet. Yes, I admit that the product is costly but I certainly wouldn't say its not worth the money as its all dependent on your circumstances, if you want to "Dive Right in" and scan a 400 page book then this product is probably one you'll enjoy using for the task as it requires no real need to learn the Windows operating system, no complex keystrokes or shortcuts to get your job done and not even a Screen Reader though at the price it damn well ought to come with one . I coupled Kurzweil with my newly acquired HP Officejet 8500A Plus, scanning and recognition results were speedy, had 4 A4 pages of print scanned and recognised in around 30 seconds. Anyone else using K1000 v12? What do you think? From lynne at mac-access.net Tue Sep 27 23:29:46 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2011 23:29:46 +0100 Subject: Airfoil For Windows, an accessibility improvement In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Dane I think Airfoil might be somewhat redundant very soon, when Apple releases Airplay for all of its devices. Unless, of course, you know different; and I'm missing some point, which is entirely possible. Airplay will also work on the iTunes 10.5 apps for Windows I believe. And, of course, iOS5 will support it, as well as Apple TV second generation and later. Lynne On 27 Sep 2011, at 20:18, Dane Trethowan wrote: Okay foks, here's an accessibility enhancement in Airfoil For Windows I've been waiting for, I've written to the developers about the issue of selecting the target for transmission of input source for quite some time. Up until recently the only way you could select a target was to take pot luck by tabbing around the screen or moving the mouse, pressing a button and hoping for the best. Some Screen reading software such as WE allowed labeling and customisation of the buttons but this didn't seem to work all that well but it worked well enough in most cases. Now output points such as Apple TV'S, Airport Express units, Iphones, Ipads and other computers running the "Airfoil Speakers" application are listed in the menu which is accessed by pressing the "Alt" key, select the device you want to transmit to, wait a couple of seconds and transmission of your selected source starts. Conversely if you wish to stop transmission, select the device from the menu and press return, transmission of audio stops. Under new versions of Airfoil, you can transmit your source to multiple devices or instances of computers/Iphones/Ipads running "Airfoil Speakers" on your network. From grtdane at internode.on.net Wed Sep 28 02:29:26 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2011 11:29:26 +1000 Subject: Airfoil For Windows, an accessibility improvement In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1699B427-20B8-40D5-A257-0EEFE2CA0EB8@internode.on.net> You're barking up the wrong tree , Airfoil is designed to "Hijack" other audio sources, for example you can "Hijack" an input source such as a Line Input or an application such as Winamp, Windows Media Player and even Window-Eyes so in affect no, Airfoil has nothing whatever to do with Itunes and is well worth the money for the extra versatility the software has, you can buy a bundle for Windows and Mac for less than $50.00. On 28/09/2011, at 8:29 AM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: > Hello Dane > > I think Airfoil might be somewhat redundant very soon, when Apple releases Airplay for all of its devices. Unless, of course, you know different; and I'm missing some point, which is entirely possible. > > Airplay will also work on the iTunes 10.5 apps for Windows I believe. And, of course, iOS5 will support it, as well as Apple TV second generation and later. > > Lynne > > On 27 Sep 2011, at 20:18, Dane Trethowan wrote: > > Okay foks, here's an accessibility enhancement in Airfoil For Windows I've been waiting for, I've written to the developers about the issue of selecting the target for transmission of input source for quite some time. > > Up until recently the only way you could select a target was to take pot luck by tabbing around the screen or moving the mouse, pressing a button and hoping for the best. > > Some Screen reading software such as WE allowed labeling and customisation of the buttons but this didn't seem to work all that well but it worked well enough in most cases. > > Now output points such as Apple TV'S, Airport Express units, Iphones, Ipads and other computers running the "Airfoil Speakers" application are listed in the menu which is accessed by pressing the "Alt" key, select the device you want to transmit to, wait a couple of seconds and transmission of your selected source starts. Conversely if you wish to stop transmission, select the device from the menu and press return, transmission of audio stops. > > Under new versions of Airfoil, you can transmit your source to multiple devices or instances of computers/Iphones/Ipads running "Airfoil Speakers" on your network. > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- From pennyjane at iinet.net.au Wed Sep 28 03:02:58 2011 From: pennyjane at iinet.net.au (Penny van Beek) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2011 10:02:58 +0800 Subject: Just upgraded to Kurzweil v12 for Windows and... In-Reply-To: <6E374A1E-C47C-467D-869E-B1734178BF31@internode.on.net> References: <6E374A1E-C47C-467D-869E-B1734178BF31@internode.on.net> Message-ID: I've got it Dane and I am ashamed to say I'm a little daunted by the whole thing. LOL But this is the first time I have really used Kurtzweil. I need to spend some time working it out. I'm hoping to be able to move scanned material to my victor reader stream to be able to study on the go. Your glowing report is great though. Might give me the push I need to nut it all out. Penny On 28/09/2011, at 2:13 AM, Dane Trethowan wrote: > Well worth the upgrade, recognition is not only more accurate than it was but its far faster, recognition has been very accurate in versions 10 and 11 so the status quo is welcomed! > > Software is far more stable than its ever been, well on my computer system at any rate. > > Haven't done all that much digging round the product so if there are any new features then I haven't found them yet. > > Yes, I admit that the product is costly but I certainly wouldn't say its not worth the money as its all dependent on your circumstances, if you want to "Dive Right in" and scan a 400 page book then this product is probably one you'll enjoy using for the task as it requires no real need to learn the Windows operating system, no complex keystrokes or shortcuts to get your job done and not even a Screen Reader though at the price it damn well ought to come with one . > > I coupled Kurzweil with my newly acquired HP Officejet 8500A Plus, scanning and recognition results were speedy, had 4 A4 pages of print scanned and recognised in around 30 seconds. > > Anyone else using K1000 v12? What do you think? > > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- From lynne at mac-access.net Wed Sep 28 03:17:45 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2011 03:17:45 +0100 Subject: Airfoil For Windows, an accessibility improvement In-Reply-To: <1699B427-20B8-40D5-A257-0EEFE2CA0EB8@internode.on.net> References: <1699B427-20B8-40D5-A257-0EEFE2CA0EB8@internode.on.net> Message-ID: Hello Dane I don't recall mentioning iTunes, I mentioned "AirPlay". Lynne On 28 Sep 2011, at 02:29, Dane Trethowan wrote: You're barking up the wrong tree , Airfoil is designed to "Hijack" other audio sources, for example you can "Hijack" an input source such as a Line Input or an application such as Winamp, Windows Media Player and even Window-Eyes so in affect no, Airfoil has nothing whatever to do with Itunes and is well worth the money for the extra versatility the software has, you can buy a bundle for Windows and Mac for less than $50.00. On 28/09/2011, at 8:29 AM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: > Hello Dane > > I think Airfoil might be somewhat redundant very soon, when Apple releases Airplay for all of its devices. Unless, of course, you know different; and I'm missing some point, which is entirely possible. > > Airplay will also work on the iTunes 10.5 apps for Windows I believe. And, of course, iOS5 will support it, as well as Apple TV second generation and later. > > Lynne > > On 27 Sep 2011, at 20:18, Dane Trethowan wrote: > > Okay foks, here's an accessibility enhancement in Airfoil For Windows I've been waiting for, I've written to the developers about the issue of selecting the target for transmission of input source for quite some time. > > Up until recently the only way you could select a target was to take pot luck by tabbing around the screen or moving the mouse, pressing a button and hoping for the best. > > Some Screen reading software such as WE allowed labeling and customisation of the buttons but this didn't seem to work all that well but it worked well enough in most cases. > > Now output points such as Apple TV'S, Airport Express units, Iphones, Ipads and other computers running the "Airfoil Speakers" application are listed in the menu which is accessed by pressing the "Alt" key, select the device you want to transmit to, wait a couple of seconds and transmission of your selected source starts. Conversely if you wish to stop transmission, select the device from the menu and press return, transmission of audio stops. > > Under new versions of Airfoil, you can transmit your source to multiple devices or instances of computers/Iphones/Ipads running "Airfoil Speakers" on your network. > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- ======================================= The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html Or: you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: --------------------------------------- From grtdane at internode.on.net Wed Sep 28 03:26:47 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane trethowan) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2011 12:26:47 +1000 Subject: Airfoil For Windows, an accessibility improvement In-Reply-To: References: <1699B427-20B8-40D5-A257-0EEFE2CA0EB8@internode.on.net> Message-ID: <4E8285E7.6080706@internode.on.net> Again, nothing much to do with Itunes though you can Hajack Itunes of course , for want of a better description Airfoil takes advantage of Airplay and does so much more than Ituens does, Airfoil is like Airtunes with a whole heap of extra features. Airfoil is supposed to allow remote control on various devices - I assume w're talkin things like Apple TV and Airport Express here - I've not been able to figure out how this remote control system works. You can also stream video but I've not tried this system as yet. On 28/09/2011 12:17 PM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: > Hello Dane > > I don't recall mentioning iTunes, I mentioned "AirPlay". > > Lynne > > On 28 Sep 2011, at 02:29, Dane Trethowan wrote: > > You're barking up the wrong tree, Airfoil is designed to "Hijack" other audio sources, for example you can "Hijack" an input source such as a Line Input or an application such as Winamp, Windows Media Player and even Window-Eyes so in affect no, Airfoil has nothing whatever to do with Itunes and is well worth the money for the extra versatility the software has, you can buy a bundle for Windows and Mac for less than $50.00. > > > On 28/09/2011, at 8:29 AM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: > >> Hello Dane >> >> I think Airfoil might be somewhat redundant very soon, when Apple releases Airplay for all of its devices. Unless, of course, you know different; and I'm missing some point, which is entirely possible. >> >> Airplay will also work on the iTunes 10.5 apps for Windows I believe. And, of course, iOS5 will support it, as well as Apple TV second generation and later. >> >> Lynne >> >> On 27 Sep 2011, at 20:18, Dane Trethowan wrote: >> >> Okay foks, here's an accessibility enhancement in Airfoil For Windows I've been waiting for, I've written to the developers about the issue of selecting the target for transmission of input source for quite some time. >> >> Up until recently the only way you could select a target was to take pot luck by tabbing around the screen or moving the mouse, pressing a button and hoping for the best. >> >> Some Screen reading software such as WE allowed labeling and customisation of the buttons but this didn't seem to work all that well but it worked well enough in most cases. >> >> Now output points such as Apple TV'S, Airport Express units, Iphones, Ipads and other computers running the "Airfoil Speakers" application are listed in the menu which is accessed by pressing the "Alt" key, select the device you want to transmit to, wait a couple of seconds and transmission of your selected source starts. Conversely if you wish to stop transmission, select the device from the menu and press return, transmission of audio stops. >> >> Under new versions of Airfoil, you can transmit your source to multiple devices or instances of computers/Iphones/Ipads running "Airfoil Speakers" on your network. >> >> >> ======================================= >> >> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free >> >> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat >> >> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: >> >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html >> >> Or: >> >> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: >> >> >> --------------------------------------- > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- From grtdane at internode.on.net Wed Sep 28 03:30:29 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane trethowan) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2011 12:30:29 +1000 Subject: Just upgraded to Kurzweil v12 for Windows and... In-Reply-To: References: <6E374A1E-C47C-467D-869E-B1734178BF31@internode.on.net> Message-ID: <4E8286C5.3020203@internode.on.net> y advice for what its worth is to try using the number pad for your scanning, you'll find most of the features you need accessible from there. Yep, you can have the software convert scanned material so its compatible with the Victor reader Stream, should just "work" so you just Connect the Stream to your PC and select the appropriate option in the menu, can have a look if you get stuck. On 28/09/2011 12:02 PM, Penny van Beek wrote: > I've got it Dane and I am ashamed to say I'm a little daunted by the whole thing. LOL But this is the first time I have really used Kurtzweil. I need to spend some time working it out. I'm hoping to be able to move scanned material to my victor reader stream to be able to study on the go. Your glowing report is great though. Might give me the push I need to nut it all out. > > Penny > > On 28/09/2011, at 2:13 AM, Dane Trethowan wrote: > >> Well worth the upgrade, recognition is not only more accurate than it was but its far faster, recognition has been very accurate in versions 10 and 11 so the status quo is welcomed! >> >> Software is far more stable than its ever been, well on my computer system at any rate. >> >> Haven't done all that much digging round the product so if there are any new features then I haven't found them yet. >> >> Yes, I admit that the product is costly but I certainly wouldn't say its not worth the money as its all dependent on your circumstances, if you want to "Dive Right in" and scan a 400 page book then this product is probably one you'll enjoy using for the task as it requires no real need to learn the Windows operating system, no complex keystrokes or shortcuts to get your job done and not even a Screen Reader though at the price it damn well ought to come with one. >> >> I coupled Kurzweil with my newly acquired HP Officejet 8500A Plus, scanning and recognition results were speedy, had 4 A4 pages of print scanned and recognised in around 30 seconds. >> >> Anyone else using K1000 v12? What do you think? >> >> >> >> ======================================= >> >> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free >> >> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat >> >> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: >> >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html >> >> Or: >> >> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: >> >> >> --------------------------------------- > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- From lynne at mac-access.net Wed Sep 28 03:37:01 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2011 03:37:01 +0100 Subject: Airfoil For Windows, an accessibility improvement In-Reply-To: <4E8285E7.6080706@internode.on.net> References: <1699B427-20B8-40D5-A257-0EEFE2CA0EB8@internode.on.net> <4E8285E7.6080706@internode.on.net> Message-ID: Hello Dane No, you're still getting me slightly wrong. I'm not talking about iTunes, I am talking about "Air Play". It's my understanding that third party developers will be able to use the Air Play API's to develop their own applications to take advantage of the protocol. So forget iTunes; I'm not talking about iTunes at all. I'm talking about "AirPlay". My understanding is that Airplay does exactly what Airpoil does. Although I think that they've taken the user interactivity a lot further. From what I have read, AirPlay is an engine which apps can patch into to make their software compatible. So again, I'm not talking about iTunes. I'm talking about the Airplay protocol. When iOS5 and Apple TV 5 come out very shortly, you'll be able to do exactly that with those devices. yes, I'm sure that Apple's offering is iTunes. But I happen to know that third party developers are already at an advanced stage of working on AirPlay compatible applications which will spread across all devices, iPhone, iPad, iPod Touch, Mac and PC running Windows. Lynne On 28 Sep 2011, at 03:26, Dane trethowan wrote: Again, nothing much to do with Itunes though you can Hajack Itunes of course , for want of a better description Airfoil takes advantage of Airplay and does so much more than Ituens does, Airfoil is like Airtunes with a whole heap of extra features. Airfoil is supposed to allow remote control on various devices - I assume w're talkin things like Apple TV and Airport Express here - I've not been able to figure out how this remote control system works. You can also stream video but I've not tried this system as yet. From grtdane at internode.on.net Wed Sep 28 03:43:36 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane trethowan) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2011 12:43:36 +1000 Subject: Airfoil For Windows, an accessibility improvement In-Reply-To: References: <1699B427-20B8-40D5-A257-0EEFE2CA0EB8@internode.on.net> <4E8285E7.6080706@internode.on.net> Message-ID: <4E8289D8.6070003@internode.on.net> I try for a third time, Airfoil and airfoil Speakers use airplay so yep, third parties can use airplay and this is also true for the new Pioneer Surround-sound amp I'll be buying, it is "airplay Compatible" thus its compatible with Airfil, Itunes, compatible devices such as Surround-Sound receivers, Apple TV'S and so on. On 28/09/2011 12:37 PM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: > Hello Dane > > No, you're still getting me slightly wrong. I'm not talking about iTunes, I am talking about "Air Play". It's my understanding that third party developers will be able to use the Air Play API's to develop their own applications to take advantage of the protocol. So forget iTunes; I'm not talking about iTunes at all. I'm talking about "AirPlay". My understanding is that Airplay does exactly what Airpoil does. Although I think that they've taken the user interactivity a lot further. From what I have read, AirPlay is an engine which apps can patch into to make their software compatible. > > So again, I'm not talking about iTunes. I'm talking about the Airplay protocol. When iOS5 and Apple TV 5 come out very shortly, you'll be able to do exactly that with those devices. yes, I'm sure that Apple's offering is iTunes. But I happen to know that third party developers are already at an advanced stage of working on AirPlay compatible applications which will spread across all devices, iPhone, iPad, iPod Touch, Mac and PC running Windows. > > Lynne > > On 28 Sep 2011, at 03:26, Dane trethowan wrote: > > Again, nothing much to do with Itunes though you can Hajack Itunes of course, for want of a better description Airfoil takes advantage of Airplay and does so much more than Ituens does, Airfoil is like Airtunes with a whole heap of extra features. > > Airfoil is supposed to allow remote control on various devices - I assume w're talkin things like Apple TV and Airport Express here - I've not been able to figure out how this remote control system works. > > You can also stream video but I've not tried this system as yet. > > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- From grtdane at internode.on.net Wed Sep 28 03:53:57 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2011 12:53:57 +1000 Subject: Airfoil For Windows, an accessibility improvement In-Reply-To: References: <1699B427-20B8-40D5-A257-0EEFE2CA0EB8@internode.on.net> <4E8285E7.6080706@internode.on.net> Message-ID: <48CBE83F-691A-456C-985E-185A16866176@internode.on.net> Just had some good news on the accessibility front for Airfoil, the developers have been in contact and they're going to tackle the other problem concerning the "Input Source" in Airfoil Windows so that will be something to look forward too. With the Mac everything in this regard seems to be okay. On 28/09/2011, at 12:37 PM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: > Hello Dane > > No, you're still getting me slightly wrong. I'm not talking about iTunes, I am talking about "Air Play". It's my understanding that third party developers will be able to use the Air Play API's to develop their own applications to take advantage of the protocol. So forget iTunes; I'm not talking about iTunes at all. I'm talking about "AirPlay". My understanding is that Airplay does exactly what Airpoil does. Although I think that they've taken the user interactivity a lot further. From what I have read, AirPlay is an engine which apps can patch into to make their software compatible. > > So again, I'm not talking about iTunes. I'm talking about the Airplay protocol. When iOS5 and Apple TV 5 come out very shortly, you'll be able to do exactly that with those devices. yes, I'm sure that Apple's offering is iTunes. But I happen to know that third party developers are already at an advanced stage of working on AirPlay compatible applications which will spread across all devices, iPhone, iPad, iPod Touch, Mac and PC running Windows. > > Lynne > > On 28 Sep 2011, at 03:26, Dane trethowan wrote: > > Again, nothing much to do with Itunes though you can Hajack Itunes of course , for want of a better description Airfoil takes advantage of Airplay and does so much more than Ituens does, Airfoil is like Airtunes with a whole heap of extra features. > > Airfoil is supposed to allow remote control on various devices - I assume w're talkin things like Apple TV and Airport Express here - I've not been able to figure out how this remote control system works. > > You can also stream video but I've not tried this system as yet. > > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- From lynne at mac-access.net Wed Sep 28 04:11:29 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2011 04:11:29 +0100 Subject: Airfoil For Windows, an accessibility improvement In-Reply-To: <4E8289D8.6070003@internode.on.net> References: <1699B427-20B8-40D5-A257-0EEFE2CA0EB8@internode.on.net> <4E8285E7.6080706@internode.on.net> <4E8289D8.6070003@internode.on.net> Message-ID: <27C5F5CC-2AF3-4AE7-9914-34BAA170F95A@mac-access.net> And that's all I'm saying Dane; you don't have to use iTunes to use AirPlay. Lynne On 28 Sep 2011, at 03:43, Dane trethowan wrote: I try for a third time, Airfoil and airfoil Speakers use airplay so yep, third parties can use airplay and this is also true for the new Pioneer Surround-sound amp I'll be buying, it is "airplay Compatible" thus its compatible with Airfil, Itunes, compatible devices such as Surround-Sound receivers, Apple TV'S and so on. On 28/09/2011 12:37 PM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: > Hello Dane > > No, you're still getting me slightly wrong. I'm not talking about iTunes, I am talking about "Air Play". It's my understanding that third party developers will be able to use the Air Play API's to develop their own applications to take advantage of the protocol. So forget iTunes; I'm not talking about iTunes at all. I'm talking about "AirPlay". My understanding is that Airplay does exactly what Airpoil does. Although I think that they've taken the user interactivity a lot further. From what I have read, AirPlay is an engine which apps can patch into to make their software compatible. > > So again, I'm not talking about iTunes. I'm talking about the Airplay protocol. When iOS5 and Apple TV 5 come out very shortly, you'll be able to do exactly that with those devices. yes, I'm sure that Apple's offering is iTunes. But I happen to know that third party developers are already at an advanced stage of working on AirPlay compatible applications which will spread across all devices, iPhone, iPad, iPod Touch, Mac and PC running Windows. > > Lynne > > On 28 Sep 2011, at 03:26, Dane trethowan wrote: > > Again, nothing much to do with Itunes though you can Hajack Itunes of course, for want of a better description Airfoil takes advantage of Airplay and does so much more than Ituens does, Airfoil is like Airtunes with a whole heap of extra features. > > Airfoil is supposed to allow remote control on various devices - I assume w're talkin things like Apple TV and Airport Express here - I've not been able to figure out how this remote control system works. > > You can also stream video but I've not tried this system as yet. > > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- ======================================= The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html Or: you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: --------------------------------------- From grtdane at internode.on.net Wed Sep 28 04:29:13 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2011 13:29:13 +1000 Subject: Airfoil For Windows, an accessibility improvement In-Reply-To: <27C5F5CC-2AF3-4AE7-9914-34BAA170F95A@mac-access.net> References: <1699B427-20B8-40D5-A257-0EEFE2CA0EB8@internode.on.net> <4E8285E7.6080706@internode.on.net> <4E8289D8.6070003@internode.on.net> <27C5F5CC-2AF3-4AE7-9914-34BAA170F95A@mac-access.net> Message-ID: <39B552FE-1A9A-450E-A8FC-0D7E515EC9E7@internode.on.net> And no one ever said you did either. On 28/09/2011, at 1:11 PM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: > And that's all I'm saying Dane; you don't have to use iTunes to use AirPlay. > > Lynne > > On 28 Sep 2011, at 03:43, Dane trethowan wrote: > > I try for a third time, Airfoil and airfoil Speakers use airplay so yep, third parties can use airplay and this is also true for the new Pioneer Surround-sound amp I'll be buying, it is "airplay Compatible" thus its compatible with Airfil, Itunes, compatible devices such as Surround-Sound receivers, Apple TV'S and so on. > > > > On 28/09/2011 12:37 PM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: >> Hello Dane >> >> No, you're still getting me slightly wrong. I'm not talking about iTunes, I am talking about "Air Play". It's my understanding that third party developers will be able to use the Air Play API's to develop their own applications to take advantage of the protocol. So forget iTunes; I'm not talking about iTunes at all. I'm talking about "AirPlay". My understanding is that Airplay does exactly what Airpoil does. Although I think that they've taken the user interactivity a lot further. From what I have read, AirPlay is an engine which apps can patch into to make their software compatible. >> >> So again, I'm not talking about iTunes. I'm talking about the Airplay protocol. When iOS5 and Apple TV 5 come out very shortly, you'll be able to do exactly that with those devices. yes, I'm sure that Apple's offering is iTunes. But I happen to know that third party developers are already at an advanced stage of working on AirPlay compatible applications which will spread across all devices, iPhone, iPad, iPod Touch, Mac and PC running Windows. >> >> Lynne >> >> On 28 Sep 2011, at 03:26, Dane trethowan wrote: >> >> Again, nothing much to do with Itunes though you can Hajack Itunes of course, for want of a better description Airfoil takes advantage of Airplay and does so much more than Ituens does, Airfoil is like Airtunes with a whole heap of extra features. >> >> Airfoil is supposed to allow remote control on various devices - I assume w're talkin things like Apple TV and Airport Express here - I've not been able to figure out how this remote control system works. >> >> You can also stream video but I've not tried this system as yet. >> >> >> >> ======================================= >> >> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free >> >> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat >> >> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: >> >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html >> >> Or: >> >> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: >> >> >> --------------------------------------- > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- From gordon at mac-access.net Wed Sep 28 16:39:00 2011 From: gordon at mac-access.net (Gordon Smith) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2011 16:39:00 +0100 Subject: Windows-Access Is Taking Root! Message-ID: <7436CCE4-3567-41AD-90FC-5E320F991FA0@mac-access.net> Hi all Just thought I'd confirm that despite our earlier doubts, Windows-Access is now starting to take root. The first interesting discussion relates to Jarte and Jarte Plus. And I'm sure that won't be the last such discussion. If anybody is interesting in joining, send a message to: If you experience any difficulties, please let us know at the support address. Actually I will be posting a very important technical announcement to this group shortly, relating to this group. Gordon From martin at x.it.okstate.edu Wed Sep 28 17:59:31 2011 From: martin at x.it.okstate.edu (Martin McCormick) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2011 11:59:31 -0500 Subject: The Sun is Finally Waking Up. Message-ID: <201109281659.p8SGxVv7067186@x.it.okstate.edu> For anybody interested in amateur radio or short wave radio listening, Solar activity is finally starting to pick up as the belated Solar Cycle appears to be finally occurring. This is supposed to be a roughly 22-year cycle in which the Sun begins to show spots on its surface. The spots show up every eleven or twelve years but reverse magnetic polarity each time so the whole cycle is thought to be about 22 years long. During a peak in Solar activity one sees lots of spots in a view of the Sun and these spots represent upheaval of the Sun's surface. They spew jets of hot gas and subatomic particles in to space and they also effect the Earth's magnetic field causing rather interesting effects in short wave radio communications and sometimes even effecting long power lines and telephone cables. For amateur radio operators, the increased Solar activity causes certain amateur radio bands that normally only let you communicate to roughly the horizon to talk around the world. The same Solar disturbances also take away good reception in the form of radio blackouts in which normal communication paths stop working for a few minutes or even a day or so in the case of a really big blackout. In the fifties, there was a fabulous Solar cycle around 1958 that some really old-timers still talk about today. I was alive then, but too young to get in on the fun for that cycle. The first one I remember was around 1970 and it was a dandy, also. At that time, the BBC and the ORTF in France still operated television in the so-called Band-1 TV band and you could listen to British and French TV sound between 41 and 42 MHZ. The Solar cycle around 1978 or so was also very good as was the early nineties and the time around 2000. The amount of Solar activity is expressed in the amount of radio static received from the Sun at around 2.7 GHZ each day. It is given a number and those numbers are finally climbing. A couple of years ago, Solar Flux numbers were in the mid sixties. Now, they have recently come up to as high as 190 last weekend and are now around 130. If you like this kind of stuff, it is starting to happen again so, if you can, enjoy. One place to get the daily Solar Flux numbers is http://www.swpc.noaa.gov/ftpdir/latest/wwv.txt If you wonder how Solar activity can effect a power line on Earth, it works like this. Any time you sweep a piece of wire through a magnetic field, an electric current can be measured in the wire. That is how a generator works and that is how the dynamic microphone in an audio recorder or telephone hand set also works. The magnetic field of the Sun interacts with that of the Earth and actually makes the magnetism detected in one spot appear to change slightly. If there are miles of wire, that wire unwittingly becomes a sort of generator and feeds low-frequency waves of current in to whatever it is connected to. If the field is varying enough, it blows fuses or circuit breakers or puts static on to telephone lines. It also causes pipelines to be damaged by inducing electrical currents in to the pipe and causing the metal to actually leave the pipe and go in to the ground around it. This present Solar cycle is slow to get going and experts say it may sort of fizzle and not do much, but there is no way to know for sure so enjoy it while you can. It is expected to peak around 2013. Martin From mstores at indiana.edu Thu Sep 29 19:25:53 2011 From: mstores at indiana.edu (Mary Stores) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2011 14:25:53 -0400 Subject: Information about the National Federation for the Blind's Web Accessibility Day Message-ID: <20110929142553.ellh65p68sk004ks@webmail.iu.edu> Hello, all On September 19, the NFB hosted a Web Accessibility day. If you go to http://www.nfb.org/nfb/web_accessibility_day.asp and click on the ?Materials for web accessibility day? link, you can download the Resource CD. I have summarized most of the contents in the Resource CD .zip folder below. One of the items in the "Best Practices" folder is a case study regarding the design of the recovery.gov web site. The document includes how testing was done to make sure the web site complies with Section 508 guidelines, as well as other best practices such as making sure all links are contextual (for example, no "read more..." links.) These procedures include testing with people with disabilities, and training content providers on how to provide accessible PDF and content. There are also code examples given. The PowerPoint presentation in the ?Best Practices? folder talks about how many universities and Federal organizations have web sites that don?t comply with Section 508 guidelines, or reveal how their web sites will be compliant in the future. Following that are some examples of federal agencies and universities that have policies in place and perform automated checks to ensure compliance. Oregon State University tries to ensure that their web sites meet WCAG 2.0 Level AA guidelines, and the rest are all Section 508 ? University of Wisconsin, University of California, and a couple others. In the ?Business Case for Web Accessibility? folder, there?s an HTML document from the WAI that talks about why the web should be accessible, example of common accessibility failures, and gives resources for designing ccessible web sites. Then there are several documents discussing building business cases from different perspectives in this folder. Then there?s an HTML document that talks about how to report inaccessible web sites. Another document talks about how to involve older people and people with disabilities in the testing of the web site, along with the benefits of involving these groups of people. There is also a Word document of a presentation by a person from EBay that talks about designing an accessible web site from an industry perspective, and a PowerPoint presentation from a representative from Blackboard that talks about making the case for web accessibility for your business. In the javascript folder is an HTML document that talks about how to make Javascript accessible, myths and misconceptions about Javascript, and how to resolve problems like losing focus and other things. There is also a UI folder, and it has a lot of stuff in it. In the jQuery folder is a PowerPoint presentation, which doesn?t make much since when reading it with JAWS after saving it as .rtf. I see the word ?results? several times in a row. There are also someaudio examples in the folder: one person increasing both a min and max price using JAWS with Windows 7, one with Safari and VoiceOver, and one with NVDA. These audio blips are only about 20 seconds long and don?t really go into any detail. Finally, there?s the Adobe Life Cycle folder which contains a .pdf presentation. I can?t read it because I haven?t updated my Acrobat Reader yet. I'll get around to it someday. Mary From grtdane at internode.on.net Fri Sep 30 11:24:50 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane trethowan) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2011 20:24:50 +1000 Subject: Just upgraded to Kurzweil v12 for Windows and... In-Reply-To: References: <6E374A1E-C47C-467D-869E-B1734178BF31@internode.on.net> Message-ID: <4E8598F2.6000802@internode.on.net> Howdy! Yep, K1000 is very expensive but for an all-in-one scanning, reading and research/study/reference solution I would have to say that its probably worth it given the way the software behaves now and I'm glad I bought it though I dread to think what the upgrade cost to say version 13 might be . No, I didn't get K1000 with my scanner though I wish I had , that would have possibly saved a lot of money. I got read Iris Pro for Windows - Standard edition - with my HP Officejet Pro 8500A Plus device and I upgraded this to the read Iris 12 Pro edition not long after for $89.00 Australia. I've done some tests with Read Iris and OCR on the whole seems to be very accurate and fast though I do have some doubts regarding the reliability of Read Iris to handle multi column pages? Must get a copy of my favourite electronics magazine and see how we go, K1000 is a good reference here as I know it to handle multiple columns extremely well, probably one of the best OCR applications when it comes to pages with multiple columns. On 28/09/2011 8:25 AM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: > Hello Dane > > I'm pleased you like the upgrade. Actually I think Gillian is looking to buy that when she's able. it is, as you say, very expensive. > > I must say though; i'm puzzled as to how you'd get a main stream article like a scanner/printer with K1000. But well, so be it. > > Lynne > > On 27 Sep 2011, at 19:13, Dane Trethowan wrote: > > Well worth the upgrade, recognition is not only more accurate than it was but its far faster, recognition has been very accurate in versions 10 and 11 so the status quo is welcomed! > > Software is far more stable than its ever been, well on my computer system at any rate. > > Haven't done all that much digging round the product so if there are any new features then I haven't found them yet. > > Yes, I admit that the product is costly but I certainly wouldn't say its not worth the money as its all dependent on your circumstances, if you want to "Dive Right in" and scan a 400 page book then this product is probably one you'll enjoy using for the task as it requires no real need to learn the Windows operating system, no complex keystrokes or shortcuts to get your job done and not even a Screen Reader though at the price it damn well ought to come with one. > > I coupled Kurzweil with my newly acquired HP Officejet 8500A Plus, scanning and recognition results were speedy, had 4 A4 pages of print scanned and recognised in around 30 seconds. > > Anyone else using K1000 v12? What do you think? > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- From pennyjane at iinet.net.au Fri Sep 30 12:57:28 2011 From: pennyjane at iinet.net.au (Penny van Beek) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2011 19:57:28 +0800 Subject: Just upgraded to Kurzweil v12 for Windows and... In-Reply-To: <4E8598F2.6000802@internode.on.net> References: <6E374A1E-C47C-467D-869E-B1734178BF31@internode.on.net> <4E8598F2.6000802@internode.on.net> Message-ID: Thanks Dane. I'm going to give it a try this weekend so i'll let you know how I go. Penny On 30/09/2011, at 6:24 PM, Dane trethowan wrote: > Howdy! > > Yep, K1000 is very expensive but for an all-in-one scanning, reading and research/study/reference solution I would have to say that its probably worth it given the way the software behaves now and I'm glad I bought it though I dread to think what the upgrade cost to say version 13 might be . > > No, I didn't get K1000 with my scanner though I wish I had , that would have possibly saved a lot of money. I got read Iris Pro for Windows - Standard edition - with my HP Officejet Pro 8500A Plus device and I upgraded this to the read Iris 12 Pro edition not long after for $89.00 Australia. > > I've done some tests with Read Iris and OCR on the whole seems to be very accurate and fast though I do have some doubts regarding the reliability of Read Iris to handle multi column pages? Must get a copy of my favourite electronics magazine and see how we go, K1000 is a good reference here as I know it to handle multiple columns extremely well, probably one of the best OCR applications when it comes to pages with multiple columns. > > > > On 28/09/2011 8:25 AM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: >> Hello Dane >> >> I'm pleased you like the upgrade. Actually I think Gillian is looking to buy that when she's able. it is, as you say, very expensive. >> >> I must say though; i'm puzzled as to how you'd get a main stream article like a scanner/printer with K1000. But well, so be it. >> >> Lynne >> >> On 27 Sep 2011, at 19:13, Dane Trethowan wrote: >> >> Well worth the upgrade, recognition is not only more accurate than it was but its far faster, recognition has been very accurate in versions 10 and 11 so the status quo is welcomed! >> >> Software is far more stable than its ever been, well on my computer system at any rate. >> >> Haven't done all that much digging round the product so if there are any new features then I haven't found them yet. >> >> Yes, I admit that the product is costly but I certainly wouldn't say its not worth the money as its all dependent on your circumstances, if you want to "Dive Right in" and scan a 400 page book then this product is probably one you'll enjoy using for the task as it requires no real need to learn the Windows operating system, no complex keystrokes or shortcuts to get your job done and not even a Screen Reader though at the price it damn well ought to come with one. >> >> I coupled Kurzweil with my newly acquired HP Officejet 8500A Plus, scanning and recognition results were speedy, had 4 A4 pages of print scanned and recognised in around 30 seconds. >> >> Anyone else using K1000 v12? What do you think? >> >> >> ======================================= >> >> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free >> >> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat >> >> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: >> >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html >> >> Or: >> >> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: >> >> >> --------------------------------------- > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- From mstores at indiana.edu Fri Sep 30 20:47:31 2011 From: mstores at indiana.edu (Mary Stores) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2011 15:47:31 -0400 Subject: JAWS 13: Convenient OCR Message-ID: <20110930154731.udd9retts0wcgcoc@webmail.iu.edu> Hello, Remember last week or so, there were so messages about JAWS 13 and how it would help solve CAPCHAs? I remember Dane, you had said that Freedom Scientific were once again behind, that there were already other programs that do that. I am listening to the FS58 podcast. It does not just help solve CAPCHAs, this feature called Convenient OCR, but it also reads PDFs that are just images, or text conveyed as graphics on web pages with just a few simple keystrokes. Now that I know more about this feature, I am really excited about it. Mary From chris.hallsworth at techno-chat.net Fri Sep 30 21:19:51 2011 From: chris.hallsworth at techno-chat.net (chris hallsworth) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2011 21:19:51 +0100 Subject: JAWS 13: Convenient OCR In-Reply-To: <20110930154731.udd9retts0wcgcoc@webmail.iu.edu> References: <20110930154731.udd9retts0wcgcoc@webmail.iu.edu> Message-ID: <4E862467.6010501@techno-chat.net> Hi all. Yes, same here. I am thinking Freedom Scientific are once again listening to their customers rather than just concentrating on their business or customers who use JAWS at work. I used the feature myself, and it's very good. One strange scenario is that I use it to read text displayed in a virtual machine console. This is handy if you are trying to install an operating system from scratch inside a blank virtual machine created with VMware Workstation, for example. There is always Easy Install, but it's an option rather than a necessity now that convenient OCR is here. The reason why JAWS is behind though once again is because a less well known screen reader called Cobra was the first to implement such a feature, called On-Screen OCR. Where JAWS is different though is: 1. You can capture text not just for the entire screen, but also for the focused window or control. 2. A different voice is used when reading text recognized. Normal text uses the default JAWS cursor voice. 3. As soon as OCR has finished and text was present, the JAWS cursor is automatically activated. So a well thought out feature in my opinion and I hope it gets better. Chat soon. On 30/09/2011 20:47, Mary Stores wrote: > Hello, > > Remember last week or so, there were so messages about JAWS 13 and how > it would help solve CAPCHAs? I remember Dane, you had said that Freedom > Scientific were once again behind, that there were already other > programs that do that. > > I am listening to the FS58 podcast. It does not just help solve CAPCHAs, > this feature called Convenient OCR, but it also reads PDFs that are just > images, or text conveyed as graphics on web pages with just a few simple > keystrokes. > > Now that I know more about this feature, I am really excited about it. > > Mary > > > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, > virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated > web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group > at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- > From lynne at mac-access.net Fri Sep 30 21:42:20 2011 From: lynne at mac-access.net (Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2011 21:42:20 +0100 Subject: JAWS 13: Convenient OCR In-Reply-To: <20110930154731.udd9retts0wcgcoc@webmail.iu.edu> References: <20110930154731.udd9retts0wcgcoc@webmail.iu.edu> Message-ID: <9F5C1132-FD61-46ED-83B7-798883DB1F4F@mac-access.net> Hello Mary I'm very pleased that somebody has done this; but the problem is what will it do to the price for the customer. I have also seen the view expressed that this should be a screen-reader. Well, there we are. On, and I guess this one of those occasions where I'm starting to wonder whether in fact Windows-Access was such a bright idea. :) Lynne On 30 Sep 2011, at 20:47, Mary Stores wrote: Hello, Remember last week or so, there were so messages about JAWS 13 and how it would help solve CAPCHAs? I remember Dane, you had said that Freedom Scientific were once again behind, that there were already other programs that do that. I am listening to the FS58 podcast. It does not just help solve CAPCHAs, this feature called Convenient OCR, but it also reads PDFs that are just images, or text conveyed as graphics on web pages with just a few simple keystrokes. Now that I know more about this feature, I am really excited about it. Mary ======================================= The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html Or: you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: --------------------------------------- From grtdane at internode.on.net Fri Sep 30 21:52:41 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Sat, 1 Oct 2011 06:52:41 +1000 Subject: JAWS 13: Convenient OCR In-Reply-To: <9F5C1132-FD61-46ED-83B7-798883DB1F4F@mac-access.net> References: <20110930154731.udd9retts0wcgcoc@webmail.iu.edu> <9F5C1132-FD61-46ED-83B7-798883DB1F4F@mac-access.net> Message-ID: <03204EF2-64A7-40F2-872D-7F8D884843F1@internode.on.net> I think perhaps JAWS could be put into the class of "Productivity ware" much in the same way as Window-Eyes could be with its scripts, apps or whatever they're called these days. Personally? Well I don't particularly like Freedom Scientific today or on any other day but if the company does what the clients ask then no one can argue with that. I'm a Windows user and as far as I'm concerned? Well we're in the middle of an accessibility revolution of sorts as we're now able to use products free of charge which give us smooth, functional and stable access to software and products which we could only dream of having and these people need the support of blind people in order that the ball keeps rolling. On 01/10/2011, at 6:42 AM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: > Hello Mary > > I'm very pleased that somebody has done this; but the problem is what will it do to the price for the customer. I have also seen the view expressed that this should be a screen-reader. Well, there we are. On, and I guess this one of those occasions where I'm starting to wonder whether in fact Windows-Access was such a bright idea. :) > > Lynne > > On 30 Sep 2011, at 20:47, Mary Stores wrote: > > Hello, > > Remember last week or so, there were so messages about JAWS 13 and how it would help solve CAPCHAs? I remember Dane, you had said that Freedom Scientific were once again behind, that there were already other programs that do that. > > I am listening to the FS58 podcast. It does not just help solve CAPCHAs, this feature called Convenient OCR, but it also reads PDFs that are just images, or text conveyed as graphics on web pages with just a few simple keystrokes. > > Now that I know more about this feature, I am really excited about it. > > Mary > > > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- From david.mclean at cox.net Fri Sep 30 20:51:14 2011 From: david.mclean at cox.net (David McLean) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2011 15:51:14 -0400 Subject: JAWS 13: Convenient OCR In-Reply-To: <20110930154731.udd9retts0wcgcoc@webmail.iu.edu> References: <20110930154731.udd9retts0wcgcoc@webmail.iu.edu> Message-ID: Actually it doesn't solve capchas, or would be unlikely to. They said as much in the last fs cast. On Sep 30, 2011, at 3:47 PM, Mary Stores wrote: > Hello, > > Remember last week or so, there were so messages about JAWS 13 and how it would help solve CAPCHAs? I remember Dane, you had said that Freedom Scientific were once again behind, that there were already other programs that do that. > > I am listening to the FS58 podcast. It does not just help solve CAPCHAs, this feature called Convenient OCR, but it also reads PDFs that are just images, or text conveyed as graphics on web pages with just a few simple keystrokes. > > Now that I know more about this feature, I am really excited about it. > > Mary > > > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- From grtdane at internode.on.net Fri Sep 30 22:42:35 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Sat, 1 Oct 2011 07:42:35 +1000 Subject: JAWS 13: Convenient OCR In-Reply-To: References: <20110930154731.udd9retts0wcgcoc@webmail.iu.edu> Message-ID: Well we'll wait and see, Webvisum uses OCR technology and it can't solve all captures though it does solve 99% of them and that - for a service you pay next to nothing for - is pretty good going. On 01/10/2011, at 5:51 AM, David McLean wrote: > Actually it doesn't solve capchas, or would be unlikely to. They said as much in the last fs cast. > On Sep 30, 2011, at 3:47 PM, Mary Stores wrote: > >> Hello, >> >> Remember last week or so, there were so messages about JAWS 13 and how it would help solve CAPCHAs? I remember Dane, you had said that Freedom Scientific were once again behind, that there were already other programs that do that. >> >> I am listening to the FS58 podcast. It does not just help solve CAPCHAs, this feature called Convenient OCR, but it also reads PDFs that are just images, or text conveyed as graphics on web pages with just a few simple keystrokes. >> >> Now that I know more about this feature, I am really excited about it. >> >> Mary >> >> >> >> >> ======================================= >> >> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free >> >> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat >> >> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: >> >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html >> >> Or: >> >> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: >> >> >> --------------------------------------- > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > --------------------------------------- From grtdane at internode.on.net Fri Sep 30 22:43:18 2011 From: grtdane at internode.on.net (Dane Trethowan) Date: Sat, 1 Oct 2011 07:43:18 +1000 Subject: JAWS 13: Convenient OCR In-Reply-To: References: <20110930154731.udd9retts0wcgcoc@webmail.iu.edu> Message-ID: <9BA3E9FB-980E-4F6B-83BE-D8105AD1EE66@internode.on.net> I should also mention that there is a lot of discussion on this particular topic over on the GW-Info list Actually it doesn't solve capchas, or would be unlikely to. They said as much in the last fs cast. > On Sep 30, 2011, at 3:47 PM, Mary Stores wrote: > >> Hello, >> >> Remember last week or so, there were so messages about JAWS 13 and how it would help solve CAPCHAs? I remember Dane, you had said that Freedom Scientific were once again behind, that there were already other programs that do that. >> >> I am listening to the FS58 podcast. It does not just help solve CAPCHAs, this feature called Convenient OCR, but it also reads PDFs that are just images, or text conveyed as graphics on web pages with just a few simple keystrokes. >> >> Now that I know more about this feature, I am really excited about it. >> >> Mary >> >> >> >> >> ======================================= >> >> The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free >> >> To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat >> >> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: >> >> http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html >> >> Or: >> >> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: >> >> >> --------------------------------------- > > > ======================================= > > The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free > > To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: > > http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html > > Or: > > you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: > > > ---------------------------------------